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Moring
01-28-2017, 12:02 PM
long story short:
I supremed RIP BR and crit went from blue roll to supreme roll, and blue roll got x.-mag.


http://i66.tinypic.com/15hjtdy.jpg

should I get t6 roll as DMG and reload mastery or t6 reload and DMG mastery? or are there other options I fail to see?

Thank you in advance for your suggestions and advice.

Aliasse
01-28-2017, 12:12 PM
DPS crit br = Get 35% crit hip mastery but make oj roll to dmg
Standard br = dmg > firerate > (Purple) > mag or recoil > Accuracy > Last roll can be whatever.

I feel like your RIP BR is losing out too much damage if you don't pick up DMG roll.

Reload isn't necessary since your BR isn't going to eat up all your ammo.

http://i.imgur.com/1QZ3Pq4.png
Ideal stat

but i have to say..... Crit build on a BR awful, BR won't benefit as much as dmg because the crit base is already low

Menetekel
01-28-2017, 12:18 PM
I would say to re-roll OJ to Damage... What nano is the weapon? just curious because if it's Radiation then you'd be set... Crit, Dmg, Penetration, Mag, Fira. Would be a pretty beast BR. Only issue would be if you ended up with blue recoil and lost the mag roll... but you would just have to reset and re-roll again.

Moring
01-28-2017, 03:44 PM
I would say to re-roll OJ to Damage... What nano is the weapon? just curious because if it's Radiation then you'd be set... Crit, Dmg, Penetration, Mag, Fira. Would be a pretty beast BR. Only issue would be if you ended up with blue recoil and lost the mag roll... but you would just have to reset and re-roll again.

it is a native rad BR. w/o oj recoil it is spraying in all directions and not where I try to aim it.
I never really rolled supreme weapons. can one re-roll more than just 1 roll?


DPS crit br = Get 35% crit hip mastery but make oj roll to dmg
Standard br = dmg > firerate > (Purple) > mag or recoil > Accuracy > Last roll can be whatever.

I feel like your RIP BR is losing out too much damage if you don't pick up DMG roll.

Reload isn't necessary since your BR isn't going to eat up all your ammo.

http://i.imgur.com/1QZ3Pq4.png
Ideal stat

but i have to say..... Crit build on a BR awful, BR won't benefit as much as dmg because the crit base is already low

I get that I need to change crit roll, so is it better to put t6 DMG and see what other mastery I can get?

konstantinov
01-28-2017, 04:06 PM
Is that a purple tier mag mastery? Either way it needs to go and what are you using it for?

Menetekel
01-28-2017, 04:09 PM
Re-rolling is an artform really... and completely dependent on the person and their preferences. If you start out with a purple weapon you can re-roll 3 rolls. Once you upgrade to OJ the Purple locked roll locks in and you can then re-roll a rarity teir and supreme the weapon. Once the weapon is Supreme... it becomes a little more tricky. I spent 3000 AF rerolling my Misanthrope to get exactly the rolls I wanted on it. When you re-roll say your OJ roll... if you get a roll that is already on the weapon you will then re-roll that roll. With your gun for example...

If I were re-rolling you're weapon to get rid of recoil (I'll explain why in a minute) So I roll the OJ Roll and get

OJ recoil becomes Mag, the blue mag then becomes Fire Rate and the Uncommon Fire-rate becomes Damage. On the first re-roll.

I'm happy cause I got rid of recoil... but I want OJ damage so I roll again. This time I get OJ reload, with blue fira and still green damge. Darn-it I need to roll again. Keep in mind that the roll you are re-rolling can become anything other then what is above it and what is currently there.

3rd roll : I get very lucky and get OJ dmg, the blue fira stays the same and the green goes to reload. I'm offically done.


This is a very short example of how to re-roll a weapon and it rarely works out that well. The reason I don't like recoil is because I am mostly and Overcharge User and with OC there is no recoil so I rarely if ever want recoil on the weapon. In your case you might want to start with the blue roll and try to get blue damage and green fira. If you go all the way to Supreme roll... you could inherently with lots and lots of luck and arkforge re-roll almost every single roll on the weapon except for the purple roll. So yeah you can keep re-rolling the same roll over and over and over and over again.

I took my Misanthrope from

Sup Damage
OJ Fira
Purple Mag
Blue reload
Gren Accuracy
White Recoil

and made it

Sup Damage
OJ Crit
Purple Ego on reload
Blue Reload
Green Accuracy
White Fira

There was no way to get rid of the green accuracy becuase the OJ roll doesn't roll accuracy. I would have liked to get oj reload and blue crit but after 3000 AF worth or re-rolling (that was after supreming it) I was like yep it's good enough lolz.

Any questions feel free to ask.

Logain
01-28-2017, 04:23 PM
I would re-roll sup crit to sup fire rate and hope that the fire rate roll goes to damage.

I would reroll mastery to DMG, FR or Recoil.

Good luck.

Skiller115
01-28-2017, 04:46 PM
These are my FoP BRs. The one on the left is electric and the one on the right is rad.
http://i.imgur.com/S2lxWvq.jpg

These are perfect rolls for maximum dps, also If the recoil is too much for you just reroll the blue roll lol. I would do what Logain said and give it sup firerate to compensate for your losses.

Bentu
01-28-2017, 08:13 PM
I realise you have oj recoil but personally I feel that's wasted and would go blue recoil and hope for dmg or maybe fire rate or accuracy for the oj role.
Then re roll the xp to dmg or crit.

Edit. I'll just add I have very little experience re rolling supreme weapons so don't know what other roles may change while doing it.

Moring
01-29-2017, 02:50 AM
OMG this is so complicated and AF consuming. the main consensus so far is that t6 crit has to go. Does it mean I have to reroll t6 so long till RNGesus gives me the stats I want on all/most other rolls?

thank you so much again for explaining how things work :)

Bentu
01-29-2017, 05:58 AM
If you don't want the t6 crit and want others to change as well then yes it could be extremely expensive in af but I don't know if say you continuously keep rolling blue for recoil say and it gives you fire rate then another role will have to take its place so the number of permutations on trying to role the t6 and getting what you want below are high.

Menetekel
01-29-2017, 09:34 AM
If you don't want the t6 crit and want others to change as well then yes it could be extremely expensive in af but I don't know if say you continuously keep rolling blue for recoil say and it gives you fire rate then another role will have to take its place so the number of permutations on trying to role the t6 and getting what you want below are high.

It doesn't work that way unfortunately... the blue roll can't roll anything that is above it. So rerolling blue can change to anything except crit or recoil... and the ones below it will change accordingly. Also if he goes to reroll supreme roll he will be stuck with the oj recoil because supreme rolls can't be recoil, just like say oj rolls can't be accuracy, so since it can't be rolled into the supreme roll it will be stuck in the oj position permanantly because of the can't roll to be something above the rarity teir rule.

Jack Robo
01-29-2017, 09:44 AM
reroll the t6 roll to fire rate as that will give best dps, try get the t5 to go to dmg and the blue to recoil. then green mag white reload then master for dmg/fire rate for the best results

would end up:
White reload/mag
green reload/mag
blue recoil
purp ---------
oj dmg
sup fire rate
mastery fire rate/dmg



This is how i try to set all my brs up as this gives the best possible dps (and yes i have calculated it)
the only br i would have these rolls is on an AA br as the syn gives fire rate, then it would be oj fr sup dmg dmg mastery.


also, heres the math of dps:
no mastery
sup fire rate= +.15 on top of the green(x1.20)
15.8 x 1.15=18.17(18.2)
1344x3=4,032 DPS (if it is a 1.0 fire rate)
4,032x 18.2=73,382.4(73,382) DPS with a sup fire rate roll

SUP FIRE RATE OJ DMG
1344x1.12=1,505.28 (1,505) dmg with no mastery
1505 x3 4515 dmg a shot
82173 DPS

SUP DMG OJ FIRE RATE
1344x1.15=1545.6 (1546 x3 DMG)
15.8 fire rate +oj fore rate roll, x1.10(yes ik its 1.15 but im using the green fire rate s a base fire rate)
15.8x1.10=17.38(17.4)
1546 x3 x17.4= 80,701.2(80,701) DPS

SUP FR OJ DMG>SUP DMG OJ FIRE RATE
82173>80,701

From this you can do any mastery depending on if you want more dmg or more lifesteal depending on the style of play you intend to use it for.

For all the people who want to say otherwise..u cant argue with math, especially as its layed out infront of you

Menetekel
01-29-2017, 10:26 AM
There are in fact 4 different types of dps and you are only adressing the first and most basic. First is Dps which basically equates to dmg + fira +mag, second is sustained dps in which reload comes in the equation and finaly there is crit dps and crit sustained dps which are basically the first two seperately with the crit multi added in. Check out the Dux calculator I find it very helpful. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jQ3RDXcpUeNbhh__EdBIY5833roBbY8j0vcm8OdnH14/edit#gid=4 also as I said if he rerolls the supreme roll he will be stuck with the recoil roll in oj because sup roll can't be recoil and a changed roll can't roll to anything above it.

Best option would be to try for sup damage blue fira and the green or white mag if nither of them are accuracy that would be the dps variant.

Jack Robo
01-29-2017, 10:46 AM
basic dps is all that is needed, and not sustained dps, where fire rate would still come out the victor...you could also say that there is user dps..which counts is how many shots hit...have fun working all of it out if you wish

Menetekel
01-29-2017, 11:34 AM
Oh there are all kinds of other variants besides user dps. Theres purple roll dps calculatins for penetration, or health damage, or ego on reload... perk choices and the enrmy types/intended use of the weapon all the non-calculables....but as far as dps goes you missing mag size in you calculations so you're not getting the actual true dps... also sustained dps tends to be the better calculation for how well a weapon will perform in seiges, expos and such. Crit sustained dps is what you are looking for in a tanking gun for expo bosses and the war master. So I suppose it really depends what you're looking to use the weapon for, its base rolls and inherent bonuses and how in depth you want to get into it...

Bentu
01-29-2017, 12:03 PM
It doesn't work that way unfortunately... the blue roll can't roll anything that is above it. So rerolling blue can change to anything except crit or recoil... and the ones below it will change accordingly. Also if he goes to reroll supreme roll he will be stuck with the oj recoil because supreme rolls can't be recoil, just like say oj rolls can't be accuracy, so since it can't be rolled into the supreme roll it will be stuck in the oj position permanantly because of the can't roll to be something above the rarity teir rule.


Thank you very much that's saved me a bucket load of forge.

Moring
01-29-2017, 02:41 PM
Is that a purple tier mag mastery? Either way it needs to go and what are you using it for?

indeed, it is from purple tier of BR.


Oh there are all kinds of other variants besides user dps. Theres purple roll dps calculatins for penetration, or health damage, or ego on reload... perk choices and the enrmy types/intended use of the weapon all the non-calculables....but as far as dps goes you missing mag size in you calculations so you're not getting the actual true dps... also sustained dps tends to be the better calculation for how well a weapon will perform in seiges, expos and such. Crit sustained dps is what you are looking for in a tanking gun for expo bosses and the war master. So I suppose it really depends what you're looking to use the weapon for, its base rolls and inherent bonuses and how in depth you want to get into it...

I plan to use it at sieges, expos and such, spaying all the mothertruckers in the face or from behind.

Menetekel
01-29-2017, 04:14 PM
I plan to use it at sieges, expos and such, spaying all the mothertruckers in the face or from behind.

Okay then my final piece of advice would be to try to re-roll the OJ roll to damage and try to get your blue roll to recoil since that's the play style you like. Add Gunslinger perk to your load-out if it's not already there as well as sucker punch. The Sup crit roll will help you immensely as rear shots on WM and hellbug warriors and monarchs are crit shots as well as face shots on mini-gunner/grenaders and most other mobs (also tanker backpacks as well). As I said the gun has definite potential and knowing your preference for recoil it should work very well for you. Or you could re-roll blue over and over and over again trying to get blue damage, green Fira and white reload or mag based on preference as well and just keep the OJ recoil. But you definitely want a blue damage roll at the very least if not the OJ damage roll. Best of luck with it Moring!

Menetekel PC/NA

Bentu
01-29-2017, 04:38 PM
Okay then my final piece of advice would be to try to re-roll the OJ roll to damage and try to get your blue roll to recoil since that's the play style you like. Add Gunslinger perk to your load-out if it's not already there as well as sucker punch. The Sup crit roll will help you immensely as rear shots on WM and hellbug warriors and monarchs are crit shots as well as face shots on mini-gunner/grenaders and most other mobs (also tanker backpacks as well). As I said the gun has definite potential and knowing your preference for recoil it should work very well for you. Or you could re-roll blue over and over and over again trying to get blue damage, green Fira and white reload or mag based on preference as well and just keep the OJ recoil. But you definitely want a blue damage roll at the very least if not the OJ damage roll. Best of luck with it Moring!

Menetekel PC/NA


Well that's funny peculiar as that's what I said but you're doing it by re rolling oj.

Nice.

Menetekel
01-29-2017, 05:51 PM
Well that's funny peculiar as that's what I said but you're doing it by re rolling oj.

Nice.

Great minds think a like even if we get there by differnt paths ;D... but seriously my first recommendation wasn't taking into account the fact that he actually wanted recoil for the oj roll so... and since his intended use for the weapon is actually very pro crit either way would work for him.

Sevrin
01-29-2017, 09:31 PM
Wow. Lot's of good info in this thread from clearly knowledgeable players. But for me, with this rifle, I'd simply reroll for sup damage or FR (hopefully FR) and just stop there. Then go for damage or FR mastery which ever came first (hopefully damage). That will be expensive and time consuming enough and anything beyond is a lot of AF and a lot of work for what very likely would not be so much more return.

Whichever way you go, good luck!

Sevrin
01-29-2017, 09:38 PM
duplicate post

xXxDSMer
01-29-2017, 10:30 PM
If you can't stand using a blast rifle with zero recoil roll (like a green you can buy at some supplies vendors) - then keep that oj recoil.

Ideal with oj recoil for a blast rifle would be something like blue rate, oj recoil, sup dmg... but its kinda too late to try for that without spending boatloads of forge and hoping RNG gives you the blue rate while rolling sup for dmg (extremely slim chance of that happening).

If you run a stab sight, and shoot from the hip, probably the best that could be done with these rolls is flip blue to damage and get crit from hip mastery, and generally aim for crits when ya can.

Or this is also quite viable, and another cheapest forgewise route (because again only changing one roll, and mastery):


Wow. Lot's of good info in this thread from clearly knowledgeable players. But for me, with this rifle, I'd simply reroll for sup damage or FR (hopefully FR) and just stop there. Then go for damage or FR mastery which ever came first (hopefully damage). That will be expensive and time consuming enough and anything beyond is a lot of AF and a lot of work for what very likely would not be so much more return.

Whichever way you go, good luck!