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View Full Version : Confirmed: Defiant Few JP boxes drop dupes way to often for RNG



Theocrat
03-31-2017, 06:50 PM
I have heard all the complaints on this board of receiving duplicate jp drops and there is no way even in a weighted drop system to have so many duplicate drops for so many people. The first week I spend my hard earned defiant few currency and got 2 ic jp shotties, this week, no BACK TO BACK IN ONE DAY, I got 2 Zodiac Zealots and to top it off, I already had a Zodiac Zealot in my inventory.

So is this an April fools joke? and how many others are getting junk duplicates from defiant few jp boxes?

Darknessss
04-01-2017, 12:12 AM
Yes I've gotten lots of duplicates also, But actually duplicates are an indication that a computer is being used for what is stated to be a random draw. What you may not realize is that in addition to duplicates there will be items that will not be dropped.

The fact is: computers cant ever be random, they wouldnt work if they were.

I know Trion desperately wants you to believe that the draws are completely random. I know because they recently sent me a canned answer for a completely different question I asked about a patch.
To paraphrase they said in part - drops are 100% random just like rolling a physical 1D6.
This is untrue - an alternate fact if you like.

Computers can only simulate what can be believed as random. They do this by using an 'RNG seed' to index a table of selections -which is a fancy way of saying they use the time of day to sort the choices.

Want a good laugh? Google - Arizona Lottery Pick 3 computer error
Yep even something like a state lottery fell for the "computers are random" myth.

So no matter how much they weigh or normalize it, we the players still come home from work/school at the same time every day and play the same things in the same order; its just human nature.


I just wish I could do something with all these jp pistols I have besides scrapping them. ::sigh::

mitch00uk
04-01-2017, 12:26 AM
They are random in the way they are programmed to be

But they for eg put in 100 top jps but 500000 bottom end ones. And u get one a jp on a random drop out of the pool they put in.

So u cud say it is random but weighted

* Hope it makes sense it does to me. But i am aware that i don't get things across very well*

Lightning19
04-01-2017, 12:56 AM
Yes I've gotten lots of duplicates also, But actually duplicates are an indication that a computer is being used for what is stated to be a random draw. What you may not realize is that in addition to duplicates there will be items that will not be dropped.

The fact is: computers cant ever be random, they wouldnt work if they were.

I know Trion desperately wants you to believe that the draws are completely random. I know because they recently sent me a canned answer for a completely different question I asked about a patch.
To paraphrase they said in part - drops are 100% random just like rolling a physical 1D6.
This is untrue - an alternate fact if you like.

Computers can only simulate what can be believed as random. They do this by using an 'RNG seed' to index a table of selections -which is a fancy way of saying they use the time of day to sort the choices.

Want a good laugh? Google - Arizona Lottery Pick 3 computer error
Yep even something like a state lottery fell for the "computers are random" myth.

So no matter how much they weigh or normalize it, we the players still come home from work/school at the same time every day and play the same things in the same order; its just human nature.


I just wish I could do something with all these jp pistols I have besides scrapping them. ::sigh::


I would have to agree with notion that the drops are weighted.. why else would they want to "give you guys jackpots but not flood them and have too many out there". They know exactly which weapons, shields and so on, are the most sought after and it's no coincidence that these weapons drop at a far lesser rate than the others.

As I said in another thread...6 of my last 7 karma drops have been sniper rifles. If I include this recent gift along with the last Defiant Few jp box I opened, it would be 8 of the last 9 drops received being sniper rifles.

So, I rolled the dice 9 times and needed a 6 to land a sniper rifle...landed on 6 , 8 out of 9 rolls! Whew, if I had that kind of luck in a real lottery, I would be one of the richest people on earth!

MasterProtector
04-01-2017, 09:22 AM
So, I rolled the dice 9 times and needed a 6 to land a sniper rifle...landed on 6 , 8 out of 9 rolls! Whew, if I had that kind of luck in a real lottery, I would be one of the richest people on earth!

its funny how things like this are overlooked, while mathmatically the percentage of landing on that number is the same each time the probability for it to happen again decreases each time, the probability of rolling a ball on a roulette table landing on the same number 8 times in a row is so statistically improbable that its not even considered but yet in a similar scenario involving a game rng this phenomenon happens so frequently that its just astonishing...... and the development team in an open thread which they later deleted openly acknowledged a player who confronted the fact that a computer cannot be truly random but programmed to simulate randomness which is not synonymous with true randomness. what this means is theres a margin of predictability within the system in which there is sway to which trion responded with the likes of but finding that frame would be exceptionally difficult but computers no matter what are subject to the code they are given and as such have limitations to what they can do so however difficult people HAVE found patterns in this system so rng is definitely a lie compared to true randomness..... that said if trion wants a cash grab game the best way to earn money is keep the game looking spiffy and working, to give players constant rewards to promote purchases, letting people have tests and trials of cool bonus content or even free bits, there are many games that are F2P that give you free premium currency to start with to give you a taste of it. selling more for cheaper promotes more buyers over long term than trying to get a few to give the big buys, and frankly its somewhat better to overpopulate jackpots and good weapons, one of the main reasons i liked this game originally is jackpots were not end game, the variations in which you could build guns to surpass jackpots or just customize your playstyle made this game great but the jackpot hunt ruins that concept because its all just cookie cutter nonsense..... in the long run trion its better to give which will keep more players around longer to make the game live a very long time.

Theocrat
04-01-2017, 01:44 PM
I have made programs back when computers first started, anyone remember commodore, trs-80, atari, apple etc. and the random number generators I saw or created gave pretty good random results so I call bs and know there is something fishy with Defiances rng or should I say sinister.

Johnny Stranger
04-01-2017, 02:54 PM
Would love to see how many desirables were received ? 18 jp's , best of the lot , dollar wise , canker va ... shotguns , pistols , snipers rule the rng roost

Menetekel
04-01-2017, 03:22 PM
I think the problem is that there are just entirely too many stupid weapons out there called jackpots that no one would ever want.
This is the main problem that needs to be addressed.

neknace1977
04-01-2017, 05:52 PM
Fact is they know what jps are desired and purposely keep them outta the game hoping peopled will then buy the bit boxes problem with that is we realised what an ABSOLUTE RIPOFF the bit boxes are with their ''random'' RnG along with the fact of blue rewards for everything now and top it off with pure junk coming from loyalty boxes I've vendored every item from my last 10 loyalty boxes that's BS. They wonder why there's a mass exodus happening and they just keep lying to the community games become a JOKE.

MasterProtector
04-01-2017, 06:05 PM
Fact is they know what jps are desired and purposely keep them outta the game hoping peopled will then buy the bit boxes problem with that is we realised what an ABSOLUTE RIPOFF the bit boxes are with their ''random'' RnG along with the fact of blue rewards for everything now and top it off with pure junk coming from loyalty boxes I've vendored every item from my last 10 loyalty boxes that's BS. They wonder why there's a mass exodus happening and they just keep lying to the community games become a JOKE.

i feel like loyalty boxes need a massive drop rate increase by 4x what they are now ive gotten maybe 5-6 ojs from all my boxes between special delivery and corporate espionage.... and im a frequent flyer at the bit boxes so i get enough loyalty points....... most of the time i get 3 blues and 1 purple..... i shouldnt be getting the bear minimum every single time.

DEATHBRINGER210
04-01-2017, 06:06 PM
I have made programs back when computers first started, anyone remember commodore, trs-80, atari, apple etc. and the random number generators I saw or created gave pretty good random results so I call bs and know there is something fishy with Defiances rng or should I say sinister.

yep the rng is weighted . like playing with loaded dice

elangeldealasnegras
04-01-2017, 06:25 PM
Me win 2 zodiacs the second and three week and the karma in the event 3 deadslocks lolll

Rouge Magma
04-01-2017, 06:37 PM
Well. I'm saving my last 1000 df to get df crimefighter. People say it's good.