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View Full Version : Do something about weapon remastering



Johnny Dbag
06-18-2017, 12:30 PM
Something needs to be done about weapon remastering. All masteries need to cycle at least one time in a random order before they repeat. There is no way a gun should be re mastered 15x and get velocity 5x and reload while standing still 3x, and a bunch of other horrible masteries. And honestly reload while standing still needs to just go away completely.

bClark
06-18-2017, 03:03 PM
Something needs to be done about weapon remastering. All masteries need to cycle at least one time in a random order before they repeat. There is no way a gun should be re mastered 15x and get velocity 5x and reload while standing still 3x, and a bunch of other horrible masteries. And honestly reload while standing still needs to just go away completely.

I've been trying to roll dmg mastery on pyre for weeks. So far I've gotten : 4x fire rate, 2x reload, 2x crit from hip, 2x recoil, 3x mag, 3x crit when crouched, 4x movement speed, 2x ego on reload, 3x crit, 2x speed after reload.

Working as intended?

Johnny Dbag
06-18-2017, 04:36 PM
Exactly. It takes all the fun out of finally getting the gun you are after. Makes you hate the gun. Makes the game extremely frustrating. Im at 7x velocity now, 3x movespeed, idk the rest.....aaaahhhhh!!!!!!!!!

Johnny Dbag
06-19-2017, 08:56 AM
Gave up on the gun after 25 remasters. Still did not get my desired mastery, and "settled" for one that seems ok. No one else wants to weigh in on this to help get some traction on this issue? I know I have seen posts about it in the past, but seems lke if we could get enough to voice their frustration on this we may get a little help from the devs here. I am not suggesting that you get to pick your mastery, but rather have each one cycle through at least once before the others roll 4, 5 or six times. I mean, come on, they are going to let you grind for bit store jps now, we should be able to get a little of the cursed rng out of the matery process.

r1p
06-19-2017, 09:02 AM
I've had 2 weapons that I traded because I couldn't stand to look at them anymore because of this. The first was a Plate Slicer Mazu that took 30+ materies to get damage and the second was an Epi AR that I rolled 20+ times without getting crit. I really loved both guns and they would have been on my "will not trade" list but trying to master them just killed the romance.

Johnny Dbag
06-19-2017, 09:05 AM
Yup, right there with you, gave away a T6 CE bio br for the same reason, I got so frustrated with re mastering the gun it was salvage it, sell it to the vendor or give it away.
I've had 2 weapons that I traded because I couldn't stand to look at them anymore because of this. The first was a Plate Slicer Mazu that took 30+ materies to get damage and the second was an Epi AR that I rolled 20+ times without getting crit. I really loved both guns and they would have been on my "will not trade" list but trying to master them just killed the romance.

Light Energy
06-19-2017, 10:11 AM
Something needs to be done about weapon remastering. All masteries need to cycle at least one time in a random order before they repeat. There is no way a gun should be re mastered 15x and get velocity 5x and reload while standing still 3x, and a bunch of other horrible masteries. And honestly reload while standing still needs to just go away completely.

I and I'm sure the majority (if not all) players agree.

It hopefully would not be difficult to program this... essentially like a bag with a fixed number of numbered balls: you keep taking a ball out until you get the number you want. My conclusion is that it is by design and maybe they don't want to change it in case it affects arkforge sales? The problem is, of course, we can't see all the inner workings. We can't see the random process selection. We don't know if there is some weighting or not. It may be purely coincidental, but I find the mastery tends to match my current use of the weapon...if I'm crouching I'm more likely to get crouching masteries, if I'm standing still then I get more of those masteries and so on. Could all just be luck I guess!

The idea of bolstering arkforge sales doesn't work in my case, because:
1) I will never buy arkforge from the Bits store. I get enough with Patron.
2) Because of the current randomness, I rarely bother with masteries.

missmar
06-19-2017, 10:30 AM
I think there's some hidden mechanic with masteries that they're not telling us. I'm (ignorantly) assuming when you master you're weapon you're going to the same places or at the very least, not changing your playstyle.

When the pumpkin launchers came out and people figured out you could get 5 in the clip (much to dev's dismay, but they kept it) the new quest that the bundle-buyers were after was trying to get that +5 mag roll. After trying all my usual weapon mastering places (easy co-ops mostly) I heard that someone got theirs at a zombie siege. Lo and behold, my first mastery at Diablo Vaccine siege was the +5 mag roll.

Light Energy
06-19-2017, 10:35 AM
I think there's some hidden mechanic with masteries that they're not telling us. I'm (ignorantly) assuming when you master you're weapon you're going to the same places or at the very least, not changing your playstyle.

When the pumpkin launchers came out and people figured out you could get 5 in the clip (much to dev's dismay, but they kept it) the new quest that the bundle-buyers were after was trying to get that +5 mag roll. After trying all my usual weapon mastering places (easy co-ops mostly) I heard that someone got theirs at a zombie siege. Lo and behold, my first mastery at Diablo Vaccine siege was the +5 mag roll.

Aha that reinforces my findings! You could argue that the +5 mag comes from hitting large mobs with explosives or something (like perhaps you need more in your mag :))...who knows exaclty how the game links masteries with playstyles...or how it asseses the playstyle.

Johnny Dbag
06-19-2017, 10:45 AM
That's what I was going for, a mag mastery on Acid Bath. I remastered it multiple times at Bolinas Siege, got velocity a few times, reload while standing still, ego recharge, all kinds of garbage. I remastered at majors, same crap. I remastered in co op, same crap. I remastered in expo, same crap. Obviously I cant stand still while shooting a mass cannon, and I cant control the velocity, yet those are the masteries I got the most. I hear the same thing though, you want damage, pop a spike and oc, but I don't know, I'm just fed up with the way mastering a gun can suck all the fun out of the gun and out of playing.

I think there's some hidden mechanic with masteries that they're not telling us. I'm (ignorantly) assuming when you master you're weapon you're going to the same places or at the very least, not changing your playstyle.

When the pumpkin launchers came out and people figured out you could get 5 in the clip (much to dev's dismay, but they kept it) the new quest that the bundle-buyers were after was trying to get that +5 mag roll. After trying all my usual weapon mastering places (easy co-ops mostly) I heard that someone got theirs at a zombie siege. Lo and behold, my first mastery at Diablo Vaccine siege was the +5 mag roll.

r1p
06-19-2017, 11:05 AM
It doesn't matter what you are doing or where you are at because masteries are set before you master them and they are revealed after you fill up the mastery bar. New weapons already have a mastery and re-mastered weapons get set when you click "Change Weapon Mastery".

missmar
06-19-2017, 11:08 AM
because masteries are set before you master them and they are revealed after you fill up the mastery bar.

What I'm saying is that there may be mechanics that we don't know, like your location or the last foe you hit, etc.

What you're sayin isn't disproving what I'm sayin

Johnny Dbag
06-19-2017, 11:19 AM
It doesn't matter what you are doing or where you are at because masteries are set before you master them and they are revealed after you fill up the mastery bar. New weapons already have a mastery and re-mastered weapons get set when you click "Change Weapon Mastery".
I do remember them saying that in the past r1p, that's why I just master the weapon in whatever thing I happen to be doing at that time. Just hard to believe one can roll the same mastery multiple times without seeing the others, but I guess because Trion, lol.

Hate
06-19-2017, 11:21 AM
Your last last action determines your mastery ,i know how to get the mastery i want on a gun ,and perks help as well . They took all the bad rolls out and some good ones cause people cried about this or that now all the guns are the same and bland . Soon it will be down to 1 or 2 rolls, and nothing unique .

Darknessss
06-19-2017, 11:52 AM
It doesn't matter what you are doing or where you are at because masteries are set before you master them and they are revealed after you fill up the mastery bar. New weapons already have a mastery and re-mastered weapons get set when you click "Change Weapon Mastery".

Yep it is just like re rolling the tiers which show right away; and Ive always thought it was rather cheesy to make you wait to see what the re roll is on the weapon mastery.

Another thing to keep in mind for your re-rolls is the time of day you click on the change weapon mastery.

Since computers are not random they use a rng seed to fake randomness. The seed can have many factors but it always starts with the system time. I think map coordinates must be one of the other factors so I always make my re rolls at shondues.

Hate
06-19-2017, 11:55 AM
The mastery is not preset .

r1p
06-19-2017, 01:11 PM
Your last last action determines your mastery ,i know how to get the mastery i want on a gun ,and perks help as well . They took all the bad rolls out and some good ones cause people cried about this or that now all the guns are the same and bland . Soon it will be down to 1 or 2 rolls, and nothing unique .

It absolutely is pre-set when the gun drops or when the mastery is reset and the devs have confirmed this. It is corroborated by the fact that older pre-patch weapons can roll a mastery that is no longer available if it has never been mastered before but the re-masteries are pulled from the new mastery pool.

EDIT:

Here's a post by Destro that confirms this:

http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?249813-Super-stoked&p=1966862&viewfull=1#post1966862

Johnny Gatt
06-19-2017, 01:25 PM
It absolutely is pre-set when the gun drops or when the mastery is reset and the devs have confirmed this. It is corroborated by the fact that older pre-patch weapons can roll a mastery that is no longer available if it has never been mastered before but the re-masteries are pulled from the new mastery pool.

EDIT:

Here's a post by Destro that confirms this:

http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?249813-Super-stoked&p=1966862&viewfull=1#post1966862

Mastery rolls are like a scratch ticket. The mastery is already there when you change the roll. Using the weapon is like scratching a ticket. After you use it enough, the prize is revealed.

r1p
06-19-2017, 01:29 PM
Mastery rolls are like a scratch ticket. The mastery is already there when you change the roll. Using the weapon is like scratching a ticket. After you use it enough, the prize is revealed.

I have always liked your analogy for this.

Hate
06-19-2017, 01:44 PM
When i want damage on a gun i go to a viscera or volge and shoot the arm or leg ,if i shoot up i get damage from above ,if i want speed boost i put a respark on and the perk displacement field let that kick and shoot something just as it masters ,i want reload i just keep hitting reload shoot reload shoot reload like that ,for crit i look 4 a forge and shoot the eye or find a high crit target ,it usually works for me . This far into the game i dont really care anymore .

OverDoneOne
06-19-2017, 01:52 PM
My way is to reroll a tier that I think the weapon needs first and then go for a mastery that I really want or one I can live with.

Here true examples, I have 4 Critical Masses and each one I wanted and would settle for nothing less that the +5 mag Mastery. First one 28 remasters till I got it. Second one 55 remasters and the third one 18 remasters and last but not least 68 remasters.

Now where the rhyme or reason for this is I have no clue but it can be tough and rough to get the exact mastery that you want. But I have set my limit at 75 remasters and then if I don't have what I really wanted, I will remaster till I get something I can live with.

BTW I do chart everything I do in Defiance and have for the 3 years I have played (been here since live, took a year off as a vacation from trion), So I at least have an idea of what I am doing and where it might go and to tell you the truth Defiance's randomness really defies just about every other game I have ever played. In that the randomness of it variables have no real set pattern that can be defined or even linked to one and another. My spread sheets don't lie and when trion says they are changing the rng a little, I have noticed the change when comparing older stats from my sheets to the new.
So I know for a fact they have total control over it.

LOOKxATxTHISxI
06-19-2017, 09:56 PM
I have a couple of old guns that have master rolls and the xp bar is in the middle. When I went to remaster they never erased. Been that way since around the big patch in the long,long,ago.

Light Energy
06-19-2017, 11:21 PM
It absolutely is pre-set when the gun drops or when the mastery is reset and the devs have confirmed this. It is corroborated by the fact that older pre-patch weapons can roll a mastery that is no longer available if it has never been mastered before but the re-masteries are pulled from the new mastery pool.

EDIT:

Here's a post by Destro that confirms this:

http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?249813-Super-stoked&p=1966862&viewfull=1#post1966862

I wasn't aware of that particular arrangement, thanks for the info. I can see it can makes sense programmatically to basically have a value set in the field before it is revealed. So each weapon's mastery is set when the weapon is generated and you pick it up.

I don't see the bit (in Desto's post) where it says subsequent masteries are determined the moment you select "Change Weapon Mastery"...it seems counterintuitive at first, but that would fit the pre-set concept above. Maybe the mastery cannot be left empty or blank then. When you click on "Change Weapon Mastery" it just changes it to a random mastery but hides it until it is "mastered".

If that is the case, it could actually save a bit of time if the new mastery was shown, but greyed out. Then you could keep hitting "Change Weapon Mastery" until you see the one you want, without having to shoot it again (still won't save any arkforge of course).

OokamiXIII
06-20-2017, 07:10 AM
I gave up on rerolling mastery awhile back. I have enough other gambles to spend forge on.

MrE
06-20-2017, 10:26 AM
Your last last action determines your mastery ,i know how to get the mastery i want on a gun ,and perks help as well . They took all the bad rolls out and some good ones cause people cried about this or that now all the guns are the same and bland . Soon it will be down to 1 or 2 rolls, and nothing unique .

didn't sem to take I still get the same repeat rolls on some guns no matter what I do.

MrE
06-21-2017, 04:35 AM
My way is to reroll a tier that I think the weapon needs first and then go for a mastery that I really want or one I can live with.

Here true examples, I have 4 Critical Masses and each one I wanted and would settle for nothing less that the +5 mag Mastery. First one 28 remasters till I got it. Second one 55 remasters and the third one 18 remasters and last but not least 68 remasters.

Now where the rhyme or reason for this is I have no clue but it can be tough and rough to get the exact mastery that you want. But I have set my limit at 75 remasters and then if I don't have what I really wanted, I will remaster till I get something I can live with.

BTW I do chart everything I do in Defiance and have for the 3 years I have played (been here since live, took a year off as a vacation from trion), So I at least have an idea of what I am doing and where it might go and to tell you the truth Defiance's randomness really defies just about every other game I have ever played. In that the randomness of it variables have no real set pattern that can be defined or even linked to one and another. My spread sheets don't lie and when trion says they are changing the rng a little, I have noticed the change when comparing older stats from my sheets to the new.
So I know for a fact they have total control over it.

that's because the so called crafting system in the game is just gambling, which is great if you love gambling, but not a t these losses I would imagine, be nice if it was atleast closer to a true crafting sytem with a more defined outcome or atleast the option of it, pay 75 for a reroll or have the added option of 100-200-300-400 arkforge for the roll of your choice, same for rarity upgrades, some weapons cost 1000 af for a 100% chance and the rest cost the normal 80af for 5% chance, there are also some purples that can cost 40af for a 5% chance and tbh i almost prefer that because earning and spending 500 af for Every gun is a bit much especially as we move more towards purples being the gun you end up Having to work with, but in saying that it would have to to optional, pay 500 for 100% or do the normal 5%-100% for smaller payments for the purples.

Johnny Dbag
06-21-2017, 09:13 AM
That's a really good point r1p, as I don't recall reloading while standing still but I seem to be cursed with that mastery on multiple weapons.

Sevrin
06-21-2017, 12:24 PM
I usually stop remastering when I get the one I want, say damage. But who knows, maybe if I kept remastering damage would come up five times out of the next ten or maybe even three times in a row. ...But, but, why do I doubt that?

Bentu
06-21-2017, 12:54 PM
Has been tried many many times before. It's a myth. There is no set way of getting a certain mastery.

When mastering my saws I can more or less guarantee getting dmg or crit off the monolith neck using the green power and overcharge.

Johnny Dbag
06-21-2017, 12:59 PM
I usually stop remastering when I get the one I want, say damage. But who knows, maybe if I kept remastering damage would come up five times out of the next ten or maybe even three times in a row. ...But, but, why do I doubt that?
Lol, nice, I almost spit out my coffee

Valani
06-21-2017, 06:36 PM
I might as well share this then...

Before the patch to overall reduce the cost for Weapon Mastery Rerolls and Supreme attempts.... In the middle of a Hulker Hell Major during last year's Armistice, I re-rolled my pre-pre-patched Legendary FRC Big Boomer (my first Legendary in the game at EGO 1611) four times (75 x 4 = 300) to get some of the most, out of place masteries in one sitting. I was at such disbelief, I submitted a request (ticket) to see the previous masteries on the gun. Of course, customer service would not comply with the request. Is it because the gun's pre-pre-patched?

Skiller115
06-21-2017, 10:22 PM
#thisthread

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/science-choice/201504/what-is-confirmation-bias

Johnny Dbag
06-22-2017, 08:32 AM
I'm up to about 30 remasters on this one gun. Got velocity for the umpteenth time last night. Min damage followed right after. Not asking for the world here, and being able to select a desired mastery. Just asking for the masteries to each scroll through once each before they repeat themselves. That way Trion can keep some of their precious RNG in the loop but it is not such a struggle for us to craft our guns the way we would like them to be.

r1p
06-22-2017, 09:34 AM
#thisthread

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/science-choice/201504/what-is-confirmation-bias

In this case it is, but I was purposely avoiding using the term because Destro used it last year to dismiss all perceived RNG issues and I don't agree that it is in every case.

konstantinov
06-23-2017, 03:18 AM
I'm up to about 30 remasters on this one gun. Got velocity for the umpteenth time last night. Min damage followed right after. Not asking for the world here, and being able to select a desired mastery. Just asking for the masteries to each scroll through once each before they repeat themselves. That way Trion can keep some of their precious RNG in the loop but it is not such a struggle for us to craft our guns the way we would like them to be.

I've been wanting and suggesting this exact thing; have guns cycle through every possible mastery before seeing a duplicate. Some zaggers back in the day were rolled into the triple digits in hopes of seeing a reload mastery. Sadly enough, a large majority of them never did see it.

Johnny Dbag
06-23-2017, 08:08 AM
5 more remasters last night, puts me up to 35+. I can't remember anyone spamming chat being stoked on -40% reload while standing still.....

Johnny Dbag
06-23-2017, 11:07 PM
Well, finally got desired mastery after around 40 tries. Bittersweet at this point, what a forge pit. Shouldn't be so tough.

Decoy303
06-25-2017, 07:08 PM
Went through this with my Elec. Nano bombardier. Even sent in a ticket to Trion about it. They said nothing was wrong. I did finally get dmg mastery after about 20 tries. But my Pure I got dmg mastery after 3 tries.

stayloc
06-27-2017, 08:24 AM
Mastering = Absurd -- shameless

ratpie
06-27-2017, 05:06 PM
yea mabee this is somthing they can work on in a future update.

i have given up on a few guns.

i think i past the chase somewere back there and now im into some strange hatethisgunwithapassion area.

ronbo191
06-28-2017, 09:14 AM
I am ready to give up on the Pyre after 17 tries for damage mastery. I do not have 8 to 10 hours a day to put into this game to earn more forge. I think it is very unfair to get the same mastery 4 or 5 times. It should cycle through each mastery once before repeating itself.....Its a forge pit if you ask me.

Johnny Dbag
07-02-2017, 03:55 PM
In the same boat again. Another mass cannon that will not master mag. At around 30 tries. Thanks Trion for sucking the fun out of the game and the new guns with the same smurffin mastery bs. Seems like if we could get more respinses on here suggesting the masteries to only cylce once before repeating we might, might get a dev response. Even if it's just to pop in and say "Hey looks like a lot of you are having trouble with masteries, thanks for playing, but youre burnt!"

Verga DeFuego
07-02-2017, 05:10 PM
Saw this thread as I was about to make a similar post.

Never had a huge issue with remastering, until I thought I lucked out and got a Wildfire during the last event. I tried at least 20 times to roll DMG mastery with no success. I went from being happy to have the gun, to cursing at it and giving it to my wife who's luck at rerolling it so far is also crap.

Add my voice to those who would like remastery to cycle through the options, or anything that would mitigate the frustration over straight up RNG/gambling. Maybe give us the option to spend 500af and just pick the mastery we want - it would still be a nice AF sink without the wasted time and frustration of dozens of rerolls.

Lycan Nightshade
07-03-2017, 10:13 AM
I don't see it changing anytime soon so the options are

1) give up on the gun
2)grind for more AF and keep trying
3) buy the AF in the bitstore and keep trying.

Johnny Dbag
07-03-2017, 01:34 PM
Lol, yeah been grinding forge for sure. I doubt it will change, just hoping to put a bug in their ears, or get some forum support. Finally got desired mastery after roughly 30 tries.