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View Full Version : Will the Ex Inanis power gap drive away new and f2p players ???



Darknessss
06-18-2017, 11:52 PM
Ex Inanis will be good for Trion and good for Patron Players.

All the best rewards like Karma and Py'Numbra are only for Patron accounts.

More players will become new patrons, and many will renew their lasped patron accounts. I know I'll be renewing mine. This is great for Trion, as with any business, a steady income makes payroll whales dont.

Its fantastic for existing Patrons with supremed jp's and bitstore mods. They will find their fortunes raised to even greater levels, after all you dont get a 200k score at a siege with blue drops. And these will also be the first players to get all the exotic unicorn weapons. Which they will then use to up the ante to 300k and 400k scores.

--What does that leave for everyone else?

Think about it, theres only like 900 kills total at a siege, today the very best players can take 500 of those kills. When they are the first to get the new weapons they could take 600, maybe 700 of them.

Combine that with the inevitable weekly purified gulanite cap for the f2p players and *poof* you have a power gap problem.

New Players will be even worse off. They wont getting any PG meat off them arkfall bones and the season/side missions wont be giving them any either. Warmaster majors and ironically gulanee minors are also being reported as not giving out PG.


Yes there is going to be a power gap and we should all be concerned that it could drive away f2p and new players.

konstantinov
06-19-2017, 02:48 AM
Quite the contrary, I think this update will affect the big spenders. It won't happen initially but in the long run a large amount of vets will leave. I've already played this version of defiance; it was the first year and a half it was out. The pi'numbra vendor will make the loyalty vendor obsolete save JP rigs/chips.

This patch is another means to reduce inflation while closing the power gap between old and new players alike. The problem doesn't solely fall on weapons themselves but rather weapons, perks, knowledge of mechanics. I can't tell you how many times I've answered some of the same questions just to have the person ask the question again.

I don't spend like I use to and this update will further pad my wallet. Seeing the fact that RnG will be tied to RnG with a side of RnG isnt favorable to most. I'd rather not have to spend 100k bits to hopefully pull everything you want/need for these new unicorn guns.

noaQuracy
06-19-2017, 03:26 AM
Off-shooting on power gaps... imagine

scenario 1. one or two low ego players starting a daily/weekly contract, then a max ego player (who knows when and where the enemies will appear) comes and steam rolled on all the enemies. Poof... contract done the two didn't reach the minimum 25k score to get PG.

scenario 2. low ego player arriving at a location to do a daily/weekly contract, but other players (high ego) where already there. Low ego player could hardly kill 1 enemy because of the high threat level and then contract finishes, didn't reach 25k score.

Calm like a Bomb
06-19-2017, 04:33 AM
Score is only relevant to arkfalls and seiges, not contracts.

Mr B
06-19-2017, 04:33 AM
Quite the contrary, I think this update will affect the big spenders. It won't happen initially but in the long run a large amount of vets will leave. I've already played this version of defiance; it was the first year and a half it was out. The pi'numbra vendor will make the loyalty vendor obsolete save JP rigs/chips.

This patch is another means to reduce inflation while closing the power gap between old and new players alike. The problem doesn't solely fall on weapons themselves but rather weapons, perks, knowledge of mechanics. I can't tell you how many times I've answered some of the same questions just to have the person ask the question again.

I don't spend like I use to and this update will further pad my wallet. Seeing the fact that RnG will be tied to RnG with a side of RnG isnt favorable to most. I'd rather not have to spend 100k bits to hopefully pull everything you want/need for these new unicorn guns.

Yeah agreed 110%.
I'm also concerned a lot of people will just avoid mjr arkfalls after this, and play more expo, for more currency.
I don't know what to think about this update yet, i guess i'll have to see when it goes live.
But i'm afraid it will piss a lot of people off.

Edit: And it will indeed be funny to see people farming emergencies again, just like the first month of the game where it was the best way to get keycodes ;D

Raharu
06-19-2017, 04:45 AM
The pi'numbra vendor will make the loyalty vendor obsolete save JP rigs/chips.

This patch is another means to reduce inflation while closing the power gap between old and new players alike. The problem doesn't solely fall on weapons themselves but rather weapons, perks, knowledge of mechanics. I can't tell you how many times I've answered some of the same questions just to have the person ask the question again.

This sums up my impression as well. As far as gear quality goes, I expect Ex Inanis to shrink the gap between veteran and newer players. Between players of the same Ego, score difference is at least 80% attributable to loadout choices and knowledge of mechanics. If I'm regularly in the 150k-180k score bracket at a major in my supreme loadout, I know I can hit 120k-150k using just blue versions of the same gear. It really does come down to choices and mechanics.

Logain
06-19-2017, 05:02 AM
I predict that we will see an increase use in Sludges, Infectors, and Bio Blast Rifles at all things to make sure that score is achieved.

Also good to note that damage and kills DO NOT mean score.

It is quite frankly easy to score with the correct blue weapons. And Mods Rarity Level does not mean all that much.

I agree with Kon. This is like Defiance initially. The Perfected guns might be better than JPs. BUT JPs are generally rolled well.

First Concern:
How many Perfected drops do you think you will need to drop to get one as well rolled as a JP?

Second Concern:
The PG currency currently looks like it will drop a lot. But remember AF did as well initially. How much will PG be ratcheted back?


All in all I think this is a reasonable change. BUT do not be fooled RNG just increased. But now you can target your RNG.

I like the change as it prevents event fatigue. And diminishes the AFK player. But I have the concerns stated above.

konstantinov
06-19-2017, 05:13 AM
I'd like to clarify that I'm not attacking Trion nor any of their employees but rather expressing my views and concerns.

Calm like a Bomb
06-19-2017, 06:05 AM
I see no reason any person would misconstrue your post as an attack on Trion or its employees, like you said, your just voicing your views and concerns and I find nothing you said to be of a malicious nature.

Hearing these thoughts from players who have been around from the beginning provides valuable insight for us who never knew how things used to be. I appreciate the education all of you bestow upon the community.

OverDoneOne
06-19-2017, 06:10 AM
From what I have seen on PTS, its not bad at all and a step in the right direction.

I would say get on PTS and check it out, as in you can get your character transferred to there with all your stuff and lvl and then you can actually start a new toon too and see the deference between high lvl and low lvl playing, if you like.

But all and all this is going to be a wait and see what really happens when it all goes live. :)

richardkrainium
06-19-2017, 06:20 AM
heres the part that will kill it for event arkfalls----Items will no longer be awarded at the end of event arkfalls, and items will not be dropping on the ground at event arkfalls. no rewards means pointless waste of time for a few point of new currency. players do events for the possibility of jps and when thats removed...well be prepared for a bunch of failed arkfalls

Tarmim
06-19-2017, 06:30 AM
heres the part that will kill it for event arkfalls----Items will no longer be awarded at the end of event arkfalls, and items will not be dropping on the ground at event arkfalls. no rewards means pointless waste of time for a few point of new currency. players do events for the possibility of jps and when thats removed...well be prepared for a bunch of failed arkfalls

Yep. So unless they increase the PG rewards in arkfalls, i can see arkfalls becoming as empty as sieges are now.

OverDoneOne
06-19-2017, 07:11 AM
heres the part that will kill it for event arkfalls----Items will no longer be awarded at the end of event arkfalls, and items will not be dropping on the ground at event arkfalls. no rewards means pointless waste of time for a few point of new currency. players do events for the possibility of jps and when thats removed...well be prepared for a bunch of failed arkfalls

Ah I think you don't realize a lvl 5000 or more can actually solo a major arkfall from start to finish, so as far as fails go that won't happen. Because all the failed arkfalls I have seen were because of all the afk players that upped the lvl and didn't help to get it done.

Anyways an actual experience on PTS with the new update, 1 lvl 5506, 1 lvl 5460 and a lvl 1220 and we did a HS Event arkfall from start to finish and the low lvl only went down once but we got him back up and finished it. It was fun and challenging, because I was the lvl 5506 and went down on the last wave of the final and got back up to help finish it :)

NullWolf
06-19-2017, 07:12 AM
heres the part that will kill it for event arkfalls----Items will no longer be awarded at the end of event arkfalls, and items will not be dropping on the ground at event arkfalls. no rewards means pointless waste of time for a few point of new currency. players do events for the possibility of jps and when thats removed...well be prepared for a bunch of failed arkfalls

That is one thing I do think needs a serious looking back at, the various Event arkfalls do need to keep their potential for rewarding jps along with T4 mods, along with t3/t4 mods for said event synergy on the ground.

Some of the event arkfalls like the CC, SS, and HH events will do well enough since they'll still remain very profitable score makers but events like NFH, and the grid events will quickly become ghost towns

Even if no new event synergies were to come out for the foreseeable, many of the bigger events like HH, SS, and CC all have at least 3 different synergies they could choose from event time they're brought back out.

Light Energy
06-19-2017, 07:12 AM
As for a power gap... for me it's too early to say.

I agree about the weapon knowledge aspect - to me, I don't really get into the tier rolls that much, so it was nice to just assume that JPs have good rolls. Now we have more option to weapon build, that will obviously suite some players more than others. I'll probably just try to get certain weapon types and still not bother too much with the rolls :).


Think about it, theres only like 900 kills total at a siege, today the very best players can take 500 of those kills. When they are the first to get the new weapons they could take 600, maybe 700 of them.

It's one of the concerns I had initially (maybe it applies to some of the pursuits still)... stealing kills or denying other players of kills.

I think the Ex Inanis scoring system is good in this way, because it starts to plateau around 75K and maxes out at 150K. So hopefully players wont feel the need to kill everything or spend all their time in top gear mode. And at least with sieges, if the enemies are killed, more waves will come.

I'm quite looking forward to sieges and I'm hoping to see some high stage numbers...this is how I remember it when I started playing, just before Solstice Strike. To me it seemed kinda epic :).

Oh, and I think the most ardent arkfallers will continue with those, just because it is what they are used to. My plan is to vary it as much as possible to avoid "arkfall fatigue". Because arkfalls, sieges and expeditions offer the biggest PG payouts, we may see a roughly 1/3 split of players between them.

Logain
06-19-2017, 07:18 AM
They Say Patience is a Virtue

But others say Virtue is a sword.

OverDoneOne
06-19-2017, 07:32 AM
But others say Virtue is a sword.

LOL but I am still wondering who are They.
All my life I have heard They Say this and that but really don't know who They Are hehe ;)

And now you tell tell me Others Say.
LOL so now I have to find out who the Others are Too. This might take some time :confused:

blmwoecta
06-19-2017, 07:54 AM
LOL but I am still wondering who are They.
All my life I have heard They Say this and that but really don't know who They Are hehe ;)

And now you tell tell me Others Say.
LOL so now I have to find out who the Others are Too. This might take some time :confused:

https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-38e49ac54644577c5783cab4d4581e1c-c

Fallen_Aingeal
06-19-2017, 08:10 AM
From the sounds of it, the feeling is nostalgic.

Ah, remembering a time when a whole group of us would hang out and wait for the volge siege to finish because we had hit our 20k in the first 2 minutes. Wanted to make sure everyone "gt their chance".

Like Kon said, played this version already, with the exception of threat level, That didn't exist then. This doesn't persuade the afk'ers, it just delays them. Instead of afk'ing right away, they'll hit their max score, then afk.

How long does it take the average 6k good player to hit 20k/26k at volge and afflicted sieges? That's how long it'll be easy for the "young'uns"

Calm like a Bomb
06-19-2017, 08:31 AM
How long does it take the average 6k good player to hit 20k/26k at volge and afflicted sieges? That's how long it'll be easy for the "young'uns"It will be slightly longer than the minimum of a 25k score required to recieve rewards before players go afk. Wouldn't you rather hit 150k first for the max payout before going afk and making it harder for the "young'uns"?

Light Energy
06-19-2017, 08:49 AM
It will be slightly longer than the minimum of a 25k score required to recieve rewards before players go afk. Wouldn't you rather hit 150k first for the max payout before going afk and making it harder for the "young'uns"?

I think they will aim for anything 75K+, unless they get tired after a while... during that day's session.

They could get their score, go to the Bug and Chug to chill and let the threat level (TL) drop down again for the ones who want to stick it out. Kinda like the same way some peeps shoot one enemy during a contract (except they tend to camp). They could just leave, let the TL drop and then wait for the scoreboard to show (then start something else). This sort of thing has happened to me: I drove through a contract on the way to an arkfall, accidentally ran over 1 skitterling and still got credit for the contract(!) :) Sometimes, I only see the contract scoreboard if I teleport somewhere else anyway...

missmar
06-19-2017, 09:33 AM
if you think there isn't a ridiculous disparity between old/paying players and new/f2p players i don't think you've been paying attention to Defiance recently (~1yr)




All the best rewards like Karma and Py'Numbra are only for Patron accounts.

Gonna play devil's advocate to say it'd be pretty damn weird if the best rewards were for F2P instead of people willing to buy something.




Its fantastic for existing Patrons with supremed jp's and bitstore mods. They will find their fortunes raised to even greater levels, after all you dont get a 200k score at a siege with blue drops.

Minimum score for gulanite is 25k. 75k is the 2nd highest tier, 150k being max payout.


And these will also be the first players to get all the exotic unicorn weapons. Which they will then use to up the ante to 300k and 400k scores.

So what? You're not competing with each other in PVE. 150k or 400k, no difference.



--What does that leave for everyone else?

Think about it, theres only like 900 kills total at a siege, today the very best players can take 500 of those kills. When they are the first to get the new weapons they could take 600, maybe 700 of them.

Am I the only one that knows how to phase hop and find a siege and/or major pretty much any time? Sometimes there are like 3 going on at the same time. Plus, when it comes to scoring points: Two or more players can share a kill...


Combine that with the inevitable weekly purified gulanite cap for the f2p players and *poof* you have a power gap problem.

New Players will be even worse off. They wont getting any PG meat off them arkfall bones and the season/side missions wont be giving them any either. Warmaster majors and ironically gulanee minors are also being reported as not giving out PG.

I think the entire point if this update is to get more F2P, so putting a cap on gulanite would be pretty pointless if the goal is to entice F2P to stick around and consider spending money. I think they specifically said they're planning to keep it uncapped... and I don't see any reason why they need to cap unless PVE cheaters become absolutely rampant.

I've only seen majors and sieges get emptier and emptier on PC.NA in the past year. We used to straight up gather whole clans to get stage 10 in a volge siege like every friggin day for the new players.


Yes there is going to be a power gap and we should all be concerned that it could drive away f2p and new players.

Apologies, but bluntly: I predict it's exactly the opposite of what you're predicting. There is already fundamentally a power gap between old player and new player... until the new player stays around long enough to join 'old player' tier... (or, these days, buys shortcuts or whatever. I can't say I'm one of the players who enjoy grinding, either.)

What this update does is stop totally pandering to total whale spenders, by pandering a little more to F2P giving them the ability to get some gear they couldn't before. And that means more population in general. Chill out. Pls.


P.S. If you read between the lines, it looks like they're finding ways to ease up the lag. No more constant (and mostly junk) loot dropping on the ground at majors every millisecond... No more event Karma, meaning the server doesn't have to track and distribute as many rewards (Players spend the currency they get, and buy the rewards they *want* instead.)

Trick83
06-19-2017, 11:21 AM
I've only seen majors and sieges get emptier and emptier on PC.NA in the past year. We used to straight up gather whole clans to get stage 10 in a volge siege like every friggin day for the new players.

Just wanted to comment on this:

I miss the old community. I had a loadout just for the volge sieges! Every time I could get to a newbie stage 10 run I was there! So much fun watching them freak out when the bomber fleets showed up and started carpet bombing lol. Anymore it seems even putting a group together to go for all the recorders for a newb is difficult.

Darknessss
06-19-2017, 01:08 PM
I've already played this version of defiance; it was the first year and a half it was out.

I see several replies saying the the same thing, and since I dint play back then I'm just wondering out loud why they stopped doing it that way?



Second Concern:
The PG currency currently looks like it will drop a lot. But remember AF did as well initially. How much will PG be ratcheted back?


New players barely get AF, which is okay because you really shouldn't spend it until you get over the 5k hump. With PG however, it looks like it should be spent as you level up. Since the traditional level up path doesn't pay out any PG new players will have to complete with the seasoned vets to get it. And I think everyone believes that like AF, at some point PG will be capped and scaled back.



I think the Ex Inanis scoring system is good in this way, because it starts to plateau around 75K and maxes out at 150K. So hopefully players wont feel the need to kill everything or spend all their time in top gear mode.

Since the score always disappears, knowing to stop when you hit 150k really inst an option, and pausing often to make it reappear is just silly. Maybe thats something they can fix before the release?



I'd like to clarify that I'm not attacking Trion nor any of their employees but rather expressing my views and concerns.


Apologies, but bluntly: I predict it's exactly the opposite of what you're predicting. There is already fundamentally a power gap between old player and new player...

No one should feel the need to apologize, this type of discussion is what forums are for.
And yes of course there is already a power gap, armistice did a lot to correct that. I still believe it will be an even greater difference with the new release.

Clearly the Ex Inanis live stream has caused a polarization of opinions as to what effect it will have on old/paying players .vs. new/f2p players. But we all seem to agree that it will have a negative effect on player population. I really hate having to wait and hope for the best, it doesn't give out any warm fuzzies. :(

Light Energy
06-19-2017, 03:08 PM
Since the score always disappears, knowing to stop when you hit 150k really inst an option, and pausing often to make it reappear is just silly. Maybe thats something they can fix before the release?

It would be good if it was fixed, but there do seem to be occasional problems with the graphical elements refreshing and I guess this is just a long standing issue. Often it seems like the variable buffer needs clearing, like when you get an emergency title flashing on the top middle during a major arkfall.

The workaround I (and others) use is to bring up the main menu or map for few seconds. I don't do this very often because I don't focus on the score much at majors (unless I just want to check I am registering something). Maybe everyone will need to do this more, now that score will be a 'thing'?

As for pausing often...that's how I play! LOL
I'm using to pausing to pick up ammo, look at drops (this won't apply any more), say Hi to friends :p, wait for my shields/health to recharge and so on.

There will certainly be a period of adjustment, where players see how it all works together and maybe adjust their behaviour...I'm sure there will be plenty more feedback after the launch! :eek:

Calm like a Bomb
06-20-2017, 07:51 AM
I'm sure there will be plenty more feedback after the launch! :eek:

https://media2.giphy.com/media/l2JdUhw8mMsaQxaAE/giphy.gif

WhoAmI
06-20-2017, 12:34 PM
Im a new player in this game and I already feeling this issues. I always pray that I won't get a +5000 power player then my threat level goes up to 8-10 and I won't even be able to scratch a simple mob, thus.. i get nothing. This thing is really annoying and frustrating. It should have been separated this daily/weekly missions and make it like 1 - 3000 power and 3001 - 6000 power, i think this would have been much better. The high level power players don't give a .. about low power, they just want to do their daily and fast. I think this game is not really friendly toward new players from this perspective.

Luaria
06-20-2017, 01:00 PM
Im a new player in this game and I already feeling this issues. I always pray that I won't get a +5000 power player then my threat level goes up to 8-10 and I won't even be able to scratch a simple mob, thus.. i get nothing. This thing is really annoying and frustrating. It should have been separated this daily/weekly missions and make it like 1 - 3000 power and 3001 - 6000 power, i think this would have been much better. The high level power players don't give a .. about low power, they just want to do their daily and fast. I think this game is not really friendly toward new players from this perspective.

I definitely understand your frustration. High ego players jacking up the threat level on lower level stff has unfortunately been an issue for years. But its much better now than it was. As long as you deal damage to one of the enemies you should still get credit for completion. I know it still sucks not really being able to do much damage and feel like you're not really contributing but consider it practice for later on in the game when you do major events like arkfalls and sieges. The number of players in those areas make such a high threat level that almost no one does much damage and it becomes a lot more about spreading out your damage across a lot of targets than taking them out one by one.

r1p
06-20-2017, 01:20 PM
Im a new player in this game and I already feeling this issues. I always pray that I won't get a +5000 power player then my threat level goes up to 8-10 and I won't even be able to scratch a simple mob, thus.. i get nothing. This thing is really annoying and frustrating. It should have been separated this daily/weekly missions and make it like 1 - 3000 power and 3001 - 6000 power, i think this would have been much better. The high level power players don't give a .. about low power, they just want to do their daily and fast. I think this game is not really friendly toward new players from this perspective.

Why does the TL matter? AFAIK, contracts will have fixed rewards for completing them so it doesn't matter if you kill everything or just tag something you still get the same amount of PG. And scoring at ark falls and sieges isn't based on damage so anyone can get a good score.

Light Energy
06-20-2017, 01:32 PM
Why does the TL matter? AFAIK, contracts will have fixed rewards for completing them so it doesn't matter if you kill everything or just tag something you still get the same amount of PG. And scoring at ark falls and sieges isn't based on damage so anyone can get a good score.
I think its really about the player's experience, perhaps more so than the score/rewards. I remember feeling underpowered when I was at a low EGO on a contract and a high EGO player just blitzed through (the same happened on incursions). The feeling is basically "what is the point in me even trying?". Remembering how it was, I always try to consider lower EGO players and try to avoid the same situation.

At least the game tries to balance player levels with the EGO boost (yellow text) in some situations like major arkfalls.

r1p
06-20-2017, 01:42 PM
I think its really about the player's experience, perhaps more so than the score/rewards. I remember feeling underpowered when I was at a low EGO on a contract and a high EGO player just blitzed through (the same happened on incursions). The feeling is basically "what is the point in me even trying?". Remembering how it was, I always try to consider lower EGO players and try to avoid the same situation.

At least the game tries to balance player levels with the EGO boost (yellow text) in some situations like major arkfalls.

They also nerf the TL in the MT Tam area but at some point the training wheels need to come off. And when I was lower ego seeing what higher ego players were capable of motivated me to level my character up. The thing is that there isn't supposed to be parity between low and high ego players and that is the whole point.