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View Full Version : PG drop RATE nerf?



neknace1977
07-26-2017, 04:44 AM
Just wondering I had 5100pg on one toon that toon got 3 undesirable t5s and 1 undesirable o.j. plasma battery, my other toon 3100pg 0 t5s 0 ojs so why grind the pg I love defiance but stuff like this makes the play not worth the reward. Why does it seem they start us off nice then kick us in the face anybody else have their reward vs play fall off too?

Hunter4514
07-26-2017, 09:30 AM
Totaly agree ..this always happens they start out w good drop rates and then after a week or so they cut it back .just like armament boxes ...always been this way. And it sucksssss..lol

r1p
07-26-2017, 11:52 AM
I have been told by more than one veteran player that a dev on the original development team once stated that the process that populates the loot tables applies weights to weapons based on the inventory of the entire platform/region in an effort to maintain balance. The explanation appears to be corroborated by the drops from elite and rep lock boxes being heavily weighted towards less popular weapons like bolt-action snipers, sawed-offs, BMGs, etc. It was also observable to a point whenever a new event was released and it is even more apparent with the Armament boxes and Ex Inanis since they have run longer.

Just as a simple example, let's say that a new event synergy has 5 weapons types (AR, Detonator, Sniper, Shotgun, Pistol) and that every time the loot pool is updated 100,00 weapons are added. When the loot table is first populated the weighting for each weapon type would be 20%. As the event progresses and the loot table starts to get low the process is run again and this time it adjusts the the percentages of each weapon type based on what is in everyone's inventory. Since AR's and Det's are more popular than the other 3 weapon types their weighting is reduced to 17% and the less popular weapons weighting is increased to 22%. Every time the loot table needs to be re-filled the process is repeated and the weighting for the popular weapons will continue to decrease while the less popular one's will be increased. After a while the percentages become so skewed that it appears to everyone that the only thing that is dropping are snipers, shotguns, and pistols. I think of it as loot pool exhaustion.

ZamboniChaos
07-26-2017, 12:19 PM
Totaly agree ..this always happens they start out w good drop rates and then after a week or so they cut it back .just like armament boxes ...always been this way. And it sucksssss..lol

This definitely didn't happen, so I'd like to put that myth to bed. Drop rates haven't been reduced at all.

Destromathe
07-26-2017, 12:26 PM
I have been told by more than one veteran player that a dev on the original development team once stated that the process that populates the loot tables applies weights to weapons based on the inventory of the entire platform/region in an effort to maintain balance. The explanation appears to be corroborated by the drops from elite and rep lock boxes being heavily weighted towards less popular weapons like bolt-action snipers, sawed-offs, BMGs, etc. It was also observable to a point whenever a new event was released and it is even more apparent with the Armament boxes and Ex Inanis since they have run longer.

Just as a simple example, let's say that a new event synergy has 5 weapons types (AR, Detonator, Sniper, Shotgun, Pistol) and that every time the loot pool is updated 100,00 weapons are added. When the loot table is first populated the weighting for each weapon type would be 20%. As the event progresses and the loot table starts to get low the process is run again and this time it adjusts the the percentages of each weapon type based on what is in everyone's inventory. Since AR's and Det's are more popular than the other 3 weapon types their weighting is reduced to 17% and the less popular weapons weighting is increased to 22%. Every time the loot table needs to be re-filled the process is repeated and the weighting for the popular weapons will continue to decrease while the less popular one's will be increased. After a while the percentages become so skewed that it appears to everyone that the only thing that is dropping are snipers, shotguns, and pistols. I think of it as loot pool exhaustion.

While I really do appreciate the high praise for the teams coding skills, as the effort it would take to introduce this type of system would be pretty intense, not to mention the massive crashing that would happen by calling every single players inventory at the same exact time, we simply cannot take credit for such a system ever existing, either now or in the past.

A loot table does not exist as something that contains a set number of items, that are then taken out as players earn items. It is merely a designation for what will drop at any given occurrence of an item dropping, and how often items drop.

upper
07-26-2017, 12:31 PM
In addition to the recent 2 nerfs which are Karma and event arkfall drops. Grind old boring content to get "perfected weapons" all i got has been awful, tens of thouands of PG wasted.

neknace1977
07-26-2017, 12:44 PM
Seeing how you've already commented on the thread Destro could please maybe have an explanation as to why the drop RATE would fall of so dramticly. Side note you've a hell of a job doing well for how this game used to be keep on keeping on.

LOOKxATxTHISxI
07-26-2017, 01:21 PM
I have been told by more than one veteran player that a dev on the original development team once stated that the process that populates the loot tables applies weights to weapons based on the inventory of the entire platform/region in an effort to maintain balance. The explanation appears to be corroborated by the drops from elite and rep lock boxes being heavily weighted towards less popular weapons like bolt-action snipers, sawed-offs, BMGs, etc. It was also observable to a point whenever a new event was released and it is even more apparent with the Armament boxes and Ex Inanis since they have run longer.

Just as a simple example, let's say that a new event synergy has 5 weapons types (AR, Detonator, Sniper, Shotgun, Pistol) and that every time the loot pool is updated 100,00 weapons are added. When the loot table is first populated the weighting for each weapon type would be 20%. As the event progresses and the loot table starts to get low the process is run again and this time it adjusts the the percentages of each weapon type based on what is in everyone's inventory. Since AR's and Det's are more popular than the other 3 weapon types their weighting is reduced to 17% and the less popular weapons weighting is increased to 22%. Every time the loot table needs to be re-filled the process is repeated and the weighting for the popular weapons will continue to decrease while the less popular one's will be increased. After a while the percentages become so skewed that it appears to everyone that the only thing that is dropping are snipers, shotguns, and pistols. I think of it as loot pool exhaustion.
This was definitely put out by an old Trion team member. They stated that they didn't want the world to get overpopulated with weapons and as things were broken down or sold back to the vendors those items would start popping back up

Maybe by sledgehammer? Flip could possibly tell you, think it might have been the one who got pissed off when he was compared to sloth from the goonies.

@Destro
This is where some of our conspiracy theories come from because some of those old cats actually threw this stuff out there.

edispilfnairb
07-26-2017, 01:26 PM
This was definitely put out by an old Trion team member. They stated that they didn't want the world to get overpopulated with weapons and as things were broken down or sold back to the vendors those items would start popping back up

Maybe by sledgehammer? Flip could possibly tell you, think it might have been the one who got pissed off when he was compared to sloth from the goonies.

@Destro
This is where some of our conspiracy theories come from because some of those old cats actually threw this stuff out there.
Oh yes...good times, good times.

r1p
07-27-2017, 10:34 AM
While I really do appreciate the high praise for the teams coding skills, as the effort it would take to introduce this type of system would be pretty intense, not to mention the massive crashing that would happen by calling every single players inventory at the same exact time, we simply cannot take credit for such a system ever existing, either now or in the past.

A loot table does not exist as something that contains a set number of items, that are then taken out as players earn items. It is merely a designation for what will drop at any given occurrence of an item dropping, and how often items drop.

Yeah, I think I worded that poorly. It really would be a monumental feat to evaluate the entire platform's inventory in real-time every time a player received loot and I definitely wasn't trying to say that was what was happening. What I was trying to do was pass on what I have been told by several veteran players (and you can now add LOOKxATxTHISxI to that list as well) about how loot gets weighted. The details about using a table to store pre-generated loot was just my best guess on how it would be implemented since it makes the most sense because of performance.

My problem now is that given what you posted I have some serious reservations. If the weighting process was being handled the way I originally was told then it was easy for me to reconcile why drops happen the way that they do. However if it isn't the case then the only thing that I can conclude is that the system doesn't just weight loot differently based on things like rarity (which makes sense) but also by weapon type which at best would be suspect.

Lightning19
07-27-2017, 12:30 PM
While I really do appreciate the high praise for the teams coding skills, as the effort it would take to introduce this type of system would be pretty intense, not to mention the massive crashing that would happen by calling every single players inventory at the same exact time, we simply cannot take credit for such a system ever existing, either now or in the past.

A loot table does not exist as something that contains a set number of items, that are then taken out as players earn items. It is merely a designation for what will drop at any given occurrence of an item dropping, and how often items drop.

With that being said..I would understand the "what will drop..." to signify that items that are rewarded at specific sieges, conflicts etc are the "what" items.

The "how often" is confusing. Is that how often specific types of items drop, or how often they drop at all? Either way, shouldn't a rng system be void of any coding that decides "how often" anything should drop?

Even the old event jackpot loot tables consistently appeared to be heavily weighted towards the snipers, pistols and sometimes shotguns. You can input a sniper and pistol to drop 50% of the time, and all the others spread out over the other 50% and still call it rng. For example: an event has 8 jackpot weapons...those 8 weapons along along with an unknown number of "blanks" ( no jackpot ) are put into a crng. If the "blanks" number is unknown, so are the odds and there is also nothing to disprove that there aren't weighted percentages applied to certain weapon types to control "how often" they drop.

....This games' rewards are being distributed by crng ( custom random numeric generator ) not "rng". That would be fine if the actual percentages/odds of each item were advertised....but they're not. Like many, I've been personally given the example of "needing to roll a 6" to receive a jackpot. Well, the Dice and laws of probability states that ones odds of rolling a 6 is 1 in 6. With that being said, the odds of having had to go 55-65 avg events mjrs to receive a jackpot, is astronomical...so therefore, Trion's version of rolling a 6 isn't based on the 1 in 6 dice and the laws of probability, it's based on rolling a 6 out of whatever number ( a mystery ) they have pre set!