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View Full Version : What if the show DEFIANCE fails....



Jshawd40
04-08-2013, 07:38 AM
Let me start with saying that I am enjoying this game. Even with the lack of content, I find the feel of this game to be right in line with what I like to play.

But what if the scifi channel, or whatever channel it's coming on cancels the show after say the 1st season because of something like bad ratings. What if people who play the game, don't really care about watching the show? What if the show sucks? Will that mean the end of this game since it has content that is driven by what is happening in the show?

I have high hopes for this game, and I plan on watching the show, but that doesn't mean that I will enjo the show. I've been playing since the start of Alpha, and I still look forward to going home everyday and playing. I hope that the content to come is awesome, and not like others have said, just killing new looking mobs and exploring new areas.

I'd like to hear what others think.

Rush
04-08-2013, 07:40 AM
the game will still continue and vice versa

DrNoesis
04-08-2013, 07:41 AM
well we're getting at least 2 seasons out of it, as I seem to remember a blog post mentioning it was already in production o.0

EDIT: Ahahahahahaha ... link (http://www.indiewire.com/article/television/kevin-murphy-defiance-syfy?page=2#articleHeaderPanel)

Munx
04-08-2013, 07:42 AM
From what little I've seen of the show, it seems more then solid enough.

On the bright side, if show fails, the devs could potentially alow us to visit defiance ;)

And I doubt season 2 is in production, as what we do in the game now, is supposed to impact season 2

Rush
04-08-2013, 07:42 AM
the game will still continue and vice versa

the game will continue because the characters in game are digital, and you can always come out with new content...common sense

Remag Div
04-08-2013, 07:45 AM
Well, I am sure the game will continue, but let's be honest, if the show is cancelled or is just not that great, it will hurt this game a lot for obvious reasons.

Cutlass Jack
04-08-2013, 07:46 AM
I dont think its a big worry. Most SyFy scripted shows go multiple seasons without a problem. If it were running on NBC or FOX it would be a more serious concern.

Trion would still have to come up with new content during the months the show isn't airing new episodes regardless. So I'm sure the game will be fine.

Radz
04-08-2013, 07:49 AM
Technically, if either side fails, the other could survive, but you have to wonder what that impact will be financially.

Now, if finance is no issue, I could totally see the failing side of the equation being integrated in the succesful side. If the game fails, some Bay Area stuff gets added to the show and, if the show fails, the characters and locations from the show could then be visited in the game.

SlashZaku
04-08-2013, 07:50 AM
Then we'll get more reality shows from them. Stuff like 'Deep South Ghost Hunting' or whatever that new show is they've got coming. Eventually, SyFy will can whatever other serial shows they have (Being Human, Haven, Warehouse 13; Lost Girl is airing on Showcase in Canada and has been long before SyFy picked it up so that can survive, not sure about the others) and we'll just have the various Ghost Hunting, Competition (Face Off, etc.) and Pawn/Appraisal shows on the channel. And Wrestling, can't forget about Wrestling. Yeah, I'm kind of mad at SyFy. Defiance is the first show they've had in awhile that's got me interested in the channel as far as series go (I do enjoy killing the occasional weekend watching their sub-par Original movies). Ever since they've canned Stargate Universe and Caprica, I've kind of avoided the channel as much as possible and have seen most of the stuff they've been greenlighting via commercials (the aforementioned reality shows).

Think it was already confirmed that as far as survivability, the show and game are independent on that front. Best case scenario (which is a huge stretch), if the show is dropped, we get the St. Louis/Defiance area added later in game and the show characters are brought over and the creative team can continue the story/content via the game. Pipe dream.

Kommissar Kaede
04-08-2013, 07:55 AM
My question, and I guess this isn't going to make me many friends here, but should the game continue?

I mean seriously, why should the game continue? About the only real draw to this game over anything else is its tie in with another TV show (in fact, the only reason I'm interested in the whole Defiance thing is due to this tie in. I actually think the show looks boring and the game as well. I'm only here to observe the relationship between the two). Anything else this game does is generally available in another game. And this game lacks alot of the MMO quality of life features that are present in oher games.

ironhands
04-08-2013, 08:00 AM
My question, and I guess this isn't going to make me many friends here, but should the game continue?

So long as there are people playing and putting money into the game, they will continue to support it. A lot of people will continue to play as they've invested so much time. Look at Anarchy Online, Everquest, and Ultima Online, they're still kicking around.

Cutlass Jack
04-08-2013, 08:05 AM
My question, and I guess this isn't going to make me many friends here, but should the game continue?

I mean seriously, why should the game continue? About the only real draw to this game over anything else is its tie in with another TV show (in fact, the only reason I'm interested in the whole Defiance thing is due to this tie in. I actually think the show looks boring and the game as well. I'm only here to observe the relationship between the two). Anything else this game does is generally available in another game. And this game lacks alot of the MMO quality of life features that are present in oher games.

If people are enjoying the game and its profitable on its own merits, why shouldn't it continue? The game shouldn't be cancelled because you personally don't care for it.

Kommissar Kaede
04-08-2013, 08:05 AM
And yet the Matrix Online was shut down, and it was much more strongly tied into an IP, as Defiance is.

Kommissar Kaede
04-08-2013, 08:07 AM
If people are enjoying the game and its profitable on its own merits, why shouldn't it continue? The game shouldn't be cancelled because you personally don't care for it.
By no means am I trying to say that it should be shut down, but rather, the heart and soul of this game is its tie in with the TV show. If you take that away, what do you have left?

Is what you have left really worth supporting. Should players even continue to enjoy a game that essentially has no future (i.e. a possible difference in interest in the game now versus later).

Munx
04-08-2013, 08:08 AM
Oh wow, havn't heard that name in a while.

Don't know if you remeber matrix online, but every single instance was basicly a copy of the last, it was a super thin gaming system that only survived as long as it did thanks to the IP and the hard work of some very talented radio hosts that made matrix online so strong socially that it lived wayyyyyy past its very short prime.

But you are right, a strong IP is not enough to carry a game, but lets realise that we are playing the game before the show is even out, and for most of us its giving us a very good experience, not to mention in this case the game is a part of making the IP, not just using it.

And you are completly wrong if you belive the show is a must for the IP to continue to grow.

Cutlass Jack
04-08-2013, 08:08 AM
And yet the Matrix Online was shut down, and it was much more strongly tied into an IP, as Defiance is.

And yet there are far more games strongly tied to an IP that are doing just fine. Its easy to cherry pick a bad example, but all that really matters is profitablility.

Cutlass Jack
04-08-2013, 08:11 AM
By no means am I trying to say that it should be shut down, but rather, the heart and soul of this game is its tie in with the TV show. If you take that away, what do you have left?

Is what you have left really worth supporting. Should players even continue to enjoy a game that essentially has no future (i.e. a possible difference in interest in the game now versus later).

I disagree that its tied as closely as you imply. The very fact they take place in two very different regions of the world means the connection will feel forced to begin with. Not having to worry about tying things into the show will be freeing more than damning.

Kommissar Kaede
04-08-2013, 08:13 AM
And yet there are far more games strongly tied to an IP that are doing just fine. Its easy to cherry pick a bad example, but all that really matters is profitablility.

Of the games with an existing IP tied to it, MXO promised events strongly tied to a progressing story.

SWG/SWTOR doesn't, and neither does STO. Those are merely games set in that setting. MXO as an example presents an intent to pull players into a changing storyline. Defiance is more different as its trying to do that alongside a show.

Also, that response was more linked to how UO, EQ, and AO had absolutely nothing to do with an existing IP.

ironhands
04-08-2013, 08:13 AM
And yet the Matrix Online was shut down, and it was much more strongly tied into an IP, as Defiance is.

Yeah, not sure why they didn't opt for a free-to-play model, but, there's likely a huge difference in the IP ownership and rights. Since Defiance is built up originally to be cross-media, everything's worked out. With The Matrix, the contracts probably force that subscription fees be taken, and X goes to Y, etc. Knowing Sony, that's likely the case.

Actright
04-08-2013, 08:14 AM
Honestly I believe the game will fail sooner then the show will. The only thing that could have saved this is to be more mmo driven which it isn't. Its more like Borderlands with common areas where you can see more then 4 players. The amount of content is a joke compared with any other mmo. I have beat all quests, done 70% of the pursuits and find myself board with nothing to do but 2 MP maps, do old repeatable quests, or the boring Arkfalls. With Next-Gen Console coming out soon this game will die, the only people that will remain is around a thousand or so, People that can't afford the console or really like the show. As far as PC, don't even know why anyone would buy/play this. PC games have so many options for better/Real MMO's why buy a game that limited it self so that it could be played on a 8 year old computer (xbox/PS3)

ironhands
04-08-2013, 08:15 AM
Also, that response was more linked to how UO, EQ, and AO had absolutely nothing to do with an existing IP.

You're completely correct, they don't have any external IP connections, but my point was that it can easily stay afloat on its own so long as there are dedicated players.

IIFatalshockII
04-08-2013, 08:24 AM
If you can get 7 Seasons out of a Teenage Blonde who kills Vampires (And Cyborgs, and Gods) I'm sure you can get at least 4 Seasons out of Defiance.

Taaltos
04-08-2013, 08:26 AM
If the show fails we can make t-shirts.

"First Firefly...then Defiance. Gōngniú Shtako!"

Roughly translated...Bull uh...Shtako!

Taaltos
04-08-2013, 08:27 AM
If you can get 7 Seasons out of a Teenage Blonde who kills Vampires (And Cyborgs, and Gods) I'm sure you can get at least 4 Seasons out of Defiance.

We couldn't get TWO Seasons out of Firefly.

Taaltos
04-08-2013, 08:27 AM
And yet the Matrix Online was shut down, and it was much more strongly tied into an IP, as Defiance is.

Oh dear god that game was horrid!

Angelicpat
04-08-2013, 08:29 AM
i think that this show will air for a while becus syfy original shows usaly go for several seasons like sg1 and eureka

IIFatalshockII
04-08-2013, 08:29 AM
We couldn't get TWO Seasons out of Firefly.

Weren't there different circumstances with Firefly?

Taaltos
04-08-2013, 08:30 AM
Weren't there different circumstances with Firefly?

Yeah, Fox aired the episodes out of order, confusing a lot of people, and generally cancel great shows.

Radz
04-08-2013, 08:30 AM
i think that this show will air for a while becus syfy original shows usaly go for several seasons like sg1 and eureka

Exhibit A: Stargate Universe...

Cutlass Jack
04-08-2013, 08:34 AM
We couldn't get TWO Seasons out of Firefly.

See my earlier commentary about which network its running on. Fox you should worry. SyFy? Not so much. It got like 77 episodes out of Eureka for crying out loud.

Radz
04-08-2013, 08:37 AM
See my earlier commentary about which network its running on. Fox you should worry. SyFy? Not so much. It got like 77 episodes out of Eureka for crying out loud.

But they killed of Stargate Universe in two...and it had almost 15 years of history behind it and a firmly established fanbase already.

Scyris
04-08-2013, 08:38 AM
From what little I've seen of the show, it seems more then solid enough.

On the bright side, if show fails, the devs could potentially alow us to visit defiance ;)

And I doubt season 2 is in production, as what we do in the game now, is supposed to impact season 2

You do know that what happens in game is all setup by the devs right? So they could already have s2 done because we probally won't really have any real choice in what happens, they might just make you think you do, seen this happen in alot of games, where you think you really have a choice but in the long run you do not effect the flow of anything at all, skyrim is a prime example, you think you have choices but no matter what you choose in the main story it still plays out the same.

Anyway, the show looks promising, I love sci-fi stuff so as long as they don't totally bomb it, it'll do fine. Especally considering how like 80% of tv shows are garbage anyway now a days.

If anything I wish they would upgrade the texture quality, and redo the UI for the pc version, because the UI is horrible for a pc user, and the textures look like crap because its low-res x360 garbage, which does NOT scale well at all.

ItISLupus
04-08-2013, 08:40 AM
Shun the non believer

IIFatalshockII
04-08-2013, 08:43 AM
Exhibit A: Stargate Universe...

I don't miss that. The writers must have been suicidal because that was one of the most depressing shows I have ever encountered.

Ortonius
04-08-2013, 08:44 AM
I'm pretty sure we will get a least a couple of seasons on SyFy. I usually don't hear about them cancelling shows one season in, and the pedigree around the cast and crew will hopefully convince the network to give this thing an honest run. What we don't know is their target as far as viewers in order to be satisfied.

If the show fails though the game will still continue, and most likely you will see Nolan and other characters from the show more often.

Taaltos
04-08-2013, 08:54 AM
See my earlier commentary about which network its running on. Fox you should worry. SyFy? Not so much. It got like 77 episodes out of Eureka for crying out loud.
and I was STILL pissed they cancelled it. Loved that show!

Rush
04-08-2013, 09:04 AM
My question, and I guess this isn't going to make me many friends here, but should the game continue?

I mean seriously, why should the game continue? About the only real draw to this game over anything else is its tie in with another TV show (in fact, the only reason I'm interested in the whole Defiance thing is due to this tie in. I actually think the show looks boring and the game as well. I'm only here to observe the relationship between the two). Anything else this game does is generally available in another game. And this game lacks alot of the MMO quality of life features that are present in oher games.

YOU TaLK ABOUT as if this concept is something old as if the gaming community has tried something like this before?

ironhands
04-08-2013, 09:09 AM
I don't miss that. The writers must have been suicidal because that was one of the most depressing shows I have ever encountered.

That's what I liked about it, they've done the "we save the world" thing every 4-5 episodes in the other Stargate series. It's nice to see the formula broken, I think that's part of the reason that Atlantis failed

CookingWithGuns
04-08-2013, 09:09 AM
While like any new show, I hope the show is amazing and survives many seasons and winds up being one of the best SciFi shows ever....

However if it were to fail, that could benefit the game greatly actually. It would allow them to add a TON of new content because they'd have no time restrictions anymore, and no ratings worry for networks. They could not only add more content, but even make it a bit darker and much more in-depth and complex.

Kommissar Kaede
04-08-2013, 09:11 AM
YOU TaLK ABOUT as if this concept is something old as if the gaming community has tried something like this before?

I would say I'm actually trying to say it in the reverse; this hasn't really been seen before at all.

Therefore, we have nothing to go with on gauging if the game "needs" the show or not. I'm challenging the idea that the game, in the absence of the show, is something worth spending time on.

Baerrwin
04-08-2013, 09:12 AM
But they killed of Stargate Universe in two...and it had almost 15 years of history behind it and a firmly established fanbase already.

Sorry SGU sucked. It had the most potential, but there was the problem of most of the main characters being total jerks. They really never gave us a reason to like anyone but the Geek God and the Senator's daughter. That wasn't enough to go on.

Firefly died because FOX never wanted to show it in the first place. They only cared about Angel or Buffy (I forget which of them moved to FOX). They did both Firefly and Dollhouse to keep Joss happy. They Killed both as soon as they could.

Baerrwin
04-08-2013, 09:17 AM
About the game. MMO's really never die. Once the servers become stable, it costs next to nothing to keep one running. The game doesn't need the show to keep cranking out DLC and other story updates. "Failed" mmo's don't die they eventually get fixed and gain loyal fanbases that keep them going for years. People talk about The Matrix Online. SOE ran that game for years before they finally shut it down. They did monthly story updates for a long time. Everquest2 is a failed MMO that still gets new content updates, as is Conan Online. Heck, Trion's Rift is arguably a "failed" mmo and just got it's first major expansion a few months ago. I wouldn't worry about the game.

From the first 15mins of the show and the people making it. It should become the next Farscape. Unless SciFi/NBC reduces the budget to the point where all of the good writers are fired. The show should be good for a couple of seasons or more.

Radz
04-08-2013, 09:19 AM
Sorry SGU sucked. It had the most potential, but there was the problem of most of the main characters being total jerks. They really never gave us a reason to like anyone but the Geek God and the Senator's daughter. That wasn't enough to go on.

Rush was personally my favorite character. I guess that did kind of hurt it since the previous two series were very light-hearted in comparison.

Still thought it was a really good show myself...

Kantazo
04-08-2013, 09:29 AM
I don't miss that. The writers must have been suicidal because that was one of the most depressing shows I have ever encountered.

Indeed, the constant crap about back and forth, the weird stuff in space, the weird stuff inside the ship killed what could have been the best show ever.

IIFatalshockII
04-08-2013, 09:35 AM
That's what I liked about it, they've done the "we save the world" thing every 4-5 episodes in the other Stargate series. It's nice to see the formula broken, I think that's part of the reason that Atlantis failed

Atlantis was quite Dark but the cast was wonderful. The Doctor's death was so out of nowhere that I was almost in tears. I hardly think it failed. 5 Full seasons, an episode that gained loads of awards in the Sci-Fi world called "Adrift" and one of the most popular UK Sci-Fi shows in 10 years. Failure?

ironhands
04-08-2013, 09:42 AM
Couldn't stand the cast personally, and that's largely due to the constant changes in the casting. Cancellation likely came from Jewel Staite, she's cursed :P

A lot of people do consider Atlantis to have failed. Maybe not a failure, but did it succeed? One big thing against it is that they tried to keep the same formula as with the previous Stargate. It's a lot like what this game is doing, it's not keeping the same MMORPG mold with an auction house, crafting, etc. Both the game and the show are breaking new ground.

Pain
04-08-2013, 09:51 AM
About the only real draw to this game over anything else is its tie in with another TV show

The real draw to the game for me was the game.

IIFatalshockII
04-08-2013, 09:58 AM
Well that is in stark contrast to my experience with Atlantis. Everyone I knew loved it, the ratings were superb, the cast and crew were praised, and the Theme Music won some kind of award. You are clearly going to disagree, but the cast alone makes Atlantis my favourite Stargate series.

jonwes
04-08-2013, 10:02 AM
I think the game stands perfectly fine on it's own. Even if it's successful, the show will eventually go off the air. I actually think it's exciting in that, when that happens, they could expand the game to include St. Louis (Defiance) and continue the TV story online. Already I find the "world" quite rich enough to warrant continued exploration.

One thing I did wonder... let's say the TV show is super successful and goes 5 years. By that point, since I'm playing on PS3, it's possible that I'll want to upgrade to a new console. Do you think they'd just carry it over? Eventually have a new full release to buy for a new console? I just wonder what the future holds in that regard. I mean, it'll be an nice problem to have, of course.

Munx
04-08-2013, 10:05 AM
Well that is in stark contrast to my experience with Atlantis. Everyone I knew loved it, the ratings were superb, the cast and crew were praised, and the Theme Music won some kind of award. You are clearly going to disagree, but the cast alone makes Atlantis my favourite Stargate series.

Blasphemer!! How can Sg-1 not be your favorite? HOW?!

ironhands
04-08-2013, 10:06 AM
from what i read, season 2 takes place in vegas

Radz
04-08-2013, 10:11 AM
Blasphemer!! How can Sg-1 not be your favorite? HOW?!

I would say that the period of time where the two overlapped, Atlantis was my favorite too. Now, early SG-1 was great, but after Jack wasn't in the field, it just went downhill comparatively.


from what i read, season 2 takes place in vegas

We talkin' show or game?

ironhands
04-08-2013, 10:15 AM
show, can't say for the game, though the post said "geography changes".

I'll find the references and add 'em

"Now in the TV show when we travel to Las Vegas in season two, we know everything there is to know about the various people there." - http://www.indiewire.com/article/television/kevin-murphy-defiance-syfy?page=2#articleHeaderPanel

and

"After release, what updates do you have planned to keep the game fresh for players?
"We have a very aggressive update plan for the game, just in general. When we launch we will have both free and paid updates very regularly, we are talking almost monthly. And then when season two pops into television, we will have a major update, changing the geography and everything, tied in of course to the show." - http://www.digitalspy.ca/gaming/interviews/a443802/defiance-interview-trion-on-where-the-show-and-game-collide.html

Darksider
04-08-2013, 10:27 AM
Well I've been steeling myself to see the actual first episode all at once instead of seeing the 14-minute tid-bit and then extra clips, etc. But from the people I know that HAVE seen those tid-bits, they said the show is up to par with Battlestar Galactica. Considering Defiance has practically most of the staff that produced BSG, I don't doubt it will be just as good, if not better than BSG.

P.S. BSG Ran for 5 years.

Soulvak
04-08-2013, 11:07 AM
Couldn't stand the cast personally, and that's largely due to the constant changes in the casting. Cancellation likely came from Jewel Staite, she's cursed :P

A lot of people do consider Atlantis to have failed. Maybe not a failure, but did it succeed? One big thing against it is that they tried to keep the same formula as with the previous Stargate. It's a lot like what this game is doing, it's not keeping the same MMORPG mold with an auction house, crafting, etc. Both the game and the show are breaking new ground.
Summer Glau is more cursed, Firefly Dollhouse Terminator series Alphas 4400 (can't remember if ran its course or canceled) her cameo in Chuck. There is probs a few more. My theory is if she pops up in Defiance even for an ep or two then we're doomed Shame really as she's awesome.

As for SGU I liked the darker dif tone I think it had much potential. The problem was it was taking two seasons just to get right into what they had planned. They drew it out too long. People hated that. I was also almost in tears at the docs death in Atlantis. SG1 would be my fav of the 3.

I think even if the show was to be cancelled the game would stick around if it had decent potential for the company.

Adam Boisvert
04-08-2013, 11:10 AM
Good point. I wonder what they'll do with it in the shows down time.