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Disdain
10-11-2012, 04:13 AM
So Iíve been struggling to understand something that nearly every MMO has and from what I hear Defiance doesnít.

Classes.

From what I understand, there will be no specific Classes, but your charecter will be defined either by your allocation of skill points or/and by your armor/weapon equipped. Alas this just leads to more questions than answers. Will we see healers or tanks in this game? Or will it be all guns blazing, avoid what you can by manoeuvring around.

Has anyone read or heard anything on the subject, comments most welcomed.

Siantlark
10-11-2012, 06:09 PM
I remember something being talked about healing somewhere.

But AFAIK there's certain "branches" that you could go into that determine what "class" you are but it's freeform and you can switch between each whenever you want and there's also different abilities that can compliment your playstyle. I know there's an invisibility ability that they showcase somewhere.

Disdain
10-11-2012, 10:39 PM
Yeah I think they showcased the invisibility thing at E3, though apparently they also showcased as a cross platform server, Xbox, PS3 and PC all linked to a single server. Pretty sure thatís now been shot down by one of the Devs on this site.

The more I think about, the more I believe this game will be based on point traits, say like borderlands or Fall Out but with a bit more detail to it.

Healers will benefit from DMG bonuses like a DPS would etc, A healers healing well be dependant on the dmg he does, Like a Mage/Healer in Rift. Though you will only be a healer if you are currently using a healing weapon, i.e. a weapon that through dmg siphons life to you and your grp.

I'm guessing to be a tank you'll have to equip Heavy armor and/or possibly something like a Riot shield/shielding tech.

As for DPS well thatís a pretty straight forward thing.

I read an article, that stated thereís a weapon that fires eggs at your enemy, Stacking egg upon egg on your foe and after a few seconds they hatch and the critters within start attacking their host, LOL.

Most MMOís are becoming stagnant, itís the same idea over and over, this game looks to be a game changer, literally, Itís revolutionising the genre. Itís taking the next step in the Evolutionary curve of the MMOís and Iím all for it.

Shadinaxx
10-12-2012, 06:07 AM
What I understand of it, is they are taking the rift "role" system and going a bit further into freedom. So far, every game has "archetypes" you choose from, then branch out from there, with skills and abilites you can train into based on that archetype. Here, the archtypes arent defined, and that all trees, skills and abilities are available to everyone from each archtype role.

So yes, there will be people that spec into a more tanky role, but it's not REQUIRED, because a person that goes into a more agile role can "tank" just as well, by avoiding dmg (recall the video where a hologram runs ahead of the player). Healing roles will prolly have alot to with the weapon you take, but more diversified abilities around healing will likely be there as well.

I like the way this system would work, because many times in previous games (rift included, and for sake of comparison, I wil use rift as example) where I would have loved to use a hybrid of stormcaller and shaman, or Inquisiter and Necromancer (mage/cleric archetypes). So now, it looks like we can have a battle medic, or sniper that can take a bazooka to the face, etc, the possibilities are endless.

Rift broke a mold, when they allowed mages (normally a pure dps class)to become one of the strongest healer classes, and it served them well. I think Defiance will break another mold with doing away with the archtype class system choices at character creation.

Disdain
10-12-2012, 07:26 AM
What I understand of it, is they are taking the rift "role" system and going a bit further into freedom. So far, every game has "archetypes" you choose from, then branch out from there, with skills and abilites you can train into based on that archetype. Here, the archtypes arent defined, and that all trees, skills and abilities are available to everyone from each archtype role.

So yes, there will be people that spec into a more tanky role, but it's not REQUIRED, because a person that goes into a more agile role can "tank" just as well, by avoiding dmg (recall the video where a hologram runs ahead of the player). Healing roles will prolly have alot to with the weapon you take, but more diversified abilities around healing will likely be there as well.

I like the way this system would work, because many times in previous games (rift included, and for sake of comparison, I wil use rift as example) where I would have loved to use a hybrid of stormcaller and shaman, or Inquisiter and Necromancer (mage/cleric archetypes). So now, it looks like we can have a battle medic, or sniper that can take a bazooka to the face, etc, the possibilities are endless.

Rift broke a mold, when they allowed mages (normally a pure dps class)to become one of the strongest healer classes, and it served them well. I think Defiance will break another mold with doing away with the archtype class system choices at character creation.


I hope what youíve said holds true, this will make the game very interesting indeed, Iím really looking forward to the Beta, fingers crossed Iíll get an invite.

Siantlark
10-13-2012, 05:04 PM
I've never ever actually played an MMO so I have no idea what you guys are talking about. Shooters are my specialty and since this is apparently going to be a full on third person shooter I'm inclined to think that most of the traditional roles could be played by almost anybody. I'm not exactly well grounded in MMO's but in a shooter the focus is less on the "classes" so much as the fluidity of the team and the ability for the team to switch off roles in an instant based on what the situation calls for. I'd like to see that in Defiance because it's frankly a hell of a lot more interesting than having fixed class roles.

Disdain
10-13-2012, 10:07 PM
I've never ever actually played an MMO so I have no idea what you guys are talking about. Shooters are my specialty and since this is apparently going to be a full on third person shooter I'm inclined to think that most of the traditional roles could be played by almost anybody. I'm not exactly well grounded in MMO's but in a shooter the focus is less on the "classes" so much as the fluidity of the team and the ability for the team to switch off roles in an instant based on what the situation calls for. I'd like to see that in Defiance because it's frankly a hell of a lot more interesting than having fixed class roles.

Well no one is sure what the mechanics in the game will be based upon, we can only speculate. The game however wont be like what your use to in BF3 etc, Most MMOís are based around statistics, think about Borderlands 2, Wpn Dmg modification when you select 1 point in it, +1% critical hit dmg (critical hits usually deal double normal dmg)etc. The game might even include Armour penetration stat etc. I doubt the Medics (Healers) your use to will work in the same manner either, MMO healers provide a continuous flow of healing, usually while trying to heal a single member know as the tank, whoís job it is to take the brunt of the DMG. Again though we can only speculate as to how this game will turn out.

In typical shooters, You run, shoot, die, respawn and continue on. MMOís usually involve a quite a lot of tactics and understanding how the battle will flow, If you die during a boss thereís a high possibility that you wont respawn, then the grp as a whole suffers and have to take up your loss. This can result in the grouping wiping and the whole event will have to be restarted. Though thereís no guarantee this is how defiance will run, this is just generally how most MMOís do.

Escyos
10-15-2012, 07:14 AM
So I’ve been struggling to understand something that nearly every MMO has and from what I hear Defiance doesn’t.

Classes.

From what I understand, there will be no specific Classes, but your charecter will be defined either by your allocation of skill points or/and by your armor/weapon equipped. Alas this just leads to more questions than answers. Will we see healers or tanks in this game? Or will it be all guns blazing, avoid what you can by manoeuvring around.

Has anyone read or heard anything on the subject, comments most welcomed.

You do get healers - they use weapons to drain energy from enemy shields and power yours!

I think its more like life where you are only as good as your skills and equipment instead of being confined due to a choice.

Disdain
10-15-2012, 08:10 AM
Yeah Iíve now read a bit more on the subject, though we wont know anything for sure till then game is released, or until we get an invite to the Beta.

Siantlark
10-15-2012, 01:40 PM
Well no one is sure what the mechanics in the game will be based upon, we can only speculate. I doubt the Medics (Healers) your use to will work in the same manner either, MMO healers provide a continuous flow of healing, usually while trying to heal a single member know as the tank, whoís job it is to take the brunt of the DMG. Again though we can only speculate as to how this game will turn out.

In typical shooters, You run, shoot, die, respawn and continue on. MMOís usually involve a quite a lot of tactics and understanding how the battle will flow, If you die during a boss thereís a high possibility that you wont respawn, then the grp as a whole suffers and have to take up your loss. This can result in the grouping wiping and the whole event will have to be restarted. Though thereís no guarantee this is how defiance will run, this is just generally how most MMOís do.

No actually we do know the game will be a pixel perfect third person shooter that requires people to use their skill to shoot. It's in one of the Dev diaries somewhere.

Don't know where you got the statement that typical shooters are brainless respawn fests. They're just as if not more tactical than MMO gameplay. Shooters depend on the entire team being able to respond quickly and effectively to the enemy's actions otherwise the entire team will fail. In TF2 if your team can't push a point you'll fail. In Tribes 1&2 if your team can't defend the flag they'll fail. If your team can't defend the capper you guys will fail. If you play Counterstrike and someone decides to pubstar you fail. Shooters require an understanding of the basic competitive roles and demand you to know the map inside and out so you can move quickly and efficiently.

I hope the team dynamic and team gameplay is emphasized in Defiance. It tends to bring in players who are focused on helping each other out and making sure that everyone succeeds rather than the really aggressive players that tend to populate other shooters.

Disdain
10-15-2012, 09:14 PM
No actually we do know the game will be a pixel perfect third person shooter that requires people to use their skill to shoot. It's in one of the Dev diaries somewhere.

Don't know where you got the statement that typical shooters are brainless respawn fests. They're just as if not more tactical than MMO gameplay. Shooters depend on the entire team being able to respond quickly and effectively to the enemy's actions otherwise the entire team will fail. In TF2 if your team can't push a point you'll fail. In Tribes 1&2 if your team can't defend the flag they'll fail. If your team can't defend the capper you guys will fail. If you play Counterstrike and someone decides to pubstar you fail. Shooters require an understanding of the basic competitive roles and demand you to know the map inside and out so you can move quickly and efficiently.

I hope the team dynamic and team gameplay is emphasized in Defiance. It tends to bring in players who are focused on helping each other out and making sure that everyone succeeds rather than the really aggressive players that tend to populate other shooters.

I was aiming my comments mainly towards the PvE element of the game rather than at the PvP. Of course PvP requires an attention to detail that generally you donít require in Storyline based content shooters. I played MAG a lot, and when your team size is in the region of 128 players, with multiple target scenarios, you need to be on top of your Command and Control, so I know of where you speak.

JellyBean
11-11-2012, 06:05 PM
From what I saw from pics of some different Votan species in defiance that each species will be a little different in size and thus if you are bigger and take more space than i guess you are more of a tank variant that a smaller class of alien. None of that is confirmed but if different aliens are of different sizes, height, stature etc. then I guess we can suppose some will be better at some jobs than others?

Shadinaxx
11-12-2012, 10:06 AM
Really depends on how they manage the character's hit boxes (the area in which the visual graphic is true to be hit). It being claimed to be a pixel perfect shooter, there's bound to be scaleable sizing, altho possibly problematic. We all know some numbnut with a name no-one can prounance, will be the size of a garden gnome and the twitchy activity of a 5 year old that just downed a case of redbull. But, maybe there will be bonuses/handicaps to being smaller or larger (more hp for a larger body type, less for a smaller, limitations on weapons, gear, etc based on size).

FYI: for those little hyper rambo gnomes, I like to save up grenades and rocket launcher ammo for them, and I throw and squeeze off ALOT of ammo for them. :)