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View Full Version : Tips for newcomers to "competitive" defiance



Drakrtar
04-09-2013, 10:41 AM
First I say "competitive" because this really is not. The only competition here is who can jump around the most or whom has picked the stealth class. As a seasoned FPSer who has played in competitive leagues I am dumbfounded how Defiance can call this competitive.

With that said:

Tip 1: Spec Stealth
Tip 2: Get a fast recharge shield
Tip 3: Use Shotgun unless you cannot aim and have little skill then use infector
Tip 4: Jump around constantly like you would in a real fire fight. /sarcasm

I am appalled at the amount of bunny hopping that is filling pvp especially when there are specs and weapons that give bonus when crouching. It simply cannot be utilized when 80% of the players are stealthily moving around with shotguns and jumping circles around you.

Any other setup CAN get you kills but to be top tier constantly this is pretty much the only real option. (I am spec overload and can still peak top but only if i use a shotty/det combo)

This is some of the most unbalanced pvp i've seen in an mmo or fps in a long time. Hopefully they will balance this out better in the future but sadly they have too much to deal with right now so this seems to be the best we will get.

Some other things to keep in mind:

Guard rails are solid for some odd reason. The gaps you see between the bars have invisible walls (bad design IMO but easier to produce I suppose)

Also if you are thinking "Oh i'll just snipe" GOOD LUCK! I've had perfect headshots lined up with neither of us moving and even crouched yet they completely miss. I've had more luck randomly shooting at someone jumping around and landing a headshot then getting one that SHOULD be dead on. Not sure if it's the gun or the hitboxes causing this problem. But a sniper rifle zoomed in and held steady for a straight shot shouldn't have any spread so I'd hope that isn't the case.

You WILL get stuck on random objects giving the enemy free kills just expect it.

If you can get past all this and accept the fact that no matter what your build there is one "perfect" setup right now and jumping all over the place is a valid tactic. You can find enjoyment out of these sessions. But whatever you do... do NOT go in expecting a balanced fight and if you come from any PC fps games keep in mind this plays a lot more like some Halo Multiplayer from xbox then a pc title.

With that said Happy Fragging! (this isn't meant to be a personal rant more of a warning to those whom are considering checking out the competitive pvp side of defiance knowing this information going in can make it a little more tolerable). :eek:

Goomba
04-09-2013, 10:50 AM
Just a heads up this is almost entirely false. Peace godbless fix zoom-in sens

Upinya Slayin
04-09-2013, 10:55 AM
First I say "competitive" because this really is not. The only competition here is who can jump around the most or whom has picked the stealth class. As a seasoned FPSer who has played in competitive leagues I am dumbfounded how Defiance can call this competitive.

With that said:

Tip 1: Spec Stealth
Tip 2: Get a fast recharge shield
Tip 3: Use Shotgun unless you cannot aim and have little skill then use infector
Tip 4: Jump around constantly like you would in a real fire fight. /sarcasm

I am appalled at the amount of bunny hopping that is filling pvp especially when there are specs and weapons that give bonus when crouching. It simply cannot be utilized when 80% of the players are stealthily moving around with shotguns and jumping circles around you.

Any other setup CAN get you kills but to be top tier constantly this is pretty much the only real option. (I am spec overload and can still peak top but only if i use a shotty/det combo)

This is some of the most unbalanced pvp i've seen in an mmo or fps in a long time. Hopefully they will balance this out better in the future but sadly they have too much to deal with right now so this seems to be the best we will get.

Some other things to keep in mind:

Guard rails are solid for some odd reason. The gaps you see between the bars have invisible walls (bad design IMO but easier to produce I suppose)

Also if you are thinking "Oh i'll just snipe" GOOD LUCK! I've had perfect headshots lined up with neither of us moving and even crouched yet they completely miss. I've had more luck randomly shooting at someone jumping around and landing a headshot then getting one that SHOULD be dead on. Not sure if it's the gun or the hitboxes causing this problem. But a sniper rifle zoomed in and held steady for a straight shot shouldn't have any spread so I'd hope that isn't the case.

You WILL get stuck on random objects giving the enemy free kills just expect it.

If you can get past all this and accept the fact that no matter what your build there is one "perfect" setup right now and jumping all over the place is a valid tactic. You can find enjoyment out of these sessions. But whatever you do... do NOT go in expecting a balanced fight and if you come from any PC fps games keep in mind this plays a lot more like some Halo Multiplayer from xbox then a pc title.

With that said Happy Fragging! (this isn't meant to be a personal rant more of a warning to those whom are considering checking out the competitive pvp side of defiance knowing this information going in can make it a little more tolerable). :eek:

I'[m guessing you ahven't played halo at all? bunny hopping is standard in all PvP Shooters with jumping in it

MosesOfWar
04-09-2013, 11:01 AM
First I say "competitive" because this really is not. The only competition here is who can jump around the most or whom has picked the stealth class. As a seasoned FPSer who has played in competitive leagues I am dumbfounded how Defiance can call this competitive.

With that said:

Tip 1: Spec Stealth
Tip 2: Get a fast recharge shield
Tip 3: Use Shotgun unless you cannot aim and have little skill then use infector
Tip 4: Jump around constantly like you would in a real fire fight. /sarcasm

I am appalled at the amount of bunny hopping that is filling pvp especially when there are specs and weapons that give bonus when crouching. It simply cannot be utilized when 80% of the players are stealthily moving around with shotguns and jumping circles around you.

Any other setup CAN get you kills but to be top tier constantly this is pretty much the only real option. (I am spec overload and can still peak top but only if i use a shotty/det combo)

This is some of the most unbalanced pvp i've seen in an mmo or fps in a long time. Hopefully they will balance this out better in the future but sadly they have too much to deal with right now so this seems to be the best we will get.

Some other things to keep in mind:

Guard rails are solid for some odd reason. The gaps you see between the bars have invisible walls (bad design IMO but easier to produce I suppose)

Also if you are thinking "Oh i'll just snipe" GOOD LUCK! I've had perfect headshots lined up with neither of us moving and even crouched yet they completely miss. I've had more luck randomly shooting at someone jumping around and landing a headshot then getting one that SHOULD be dead on. Not sure if it's the gun or the hitboxes causing this problem. But a sniper rifle zoomed in and held steady for a straight shot shouldn't have any spread so I'd hope that isn't the case.

You WILL get stuck on random objects giving the enemy free kills just expect it.

If you can get past all this and accept the fact that no matter what your build there is one "perfect" setup right now and jumping all over the place is a valid tactic. You can find enjoyment out of these sessions. But whatever you do... do NOT go in expecting a balanced fight and if you come from any PC fps games keep in mind this plays a lot more like some Halo Multiplayer from xbox then a pc title.

With that said Happy Fragging! (this isn't meant to be a personal rant more of a warning to those whom are considering checking out the competitive pvp side of defiance knowing this information going in can make it a little more tolerable). :eek:

This isn't an MMOFPS (Planetside/MAG) or an MMORPG... Its both combined into one.

This game's PvP should be thought of as Rift or Warcraft PvP, with guns... Attached to a larger world where players. Not a TDM on CoD or Halo, where you lobby up and expect to twitch shoot. I think many people are expecting that to be the case, which it is not. I'm sure that if Trion wanted that, they would've created some type of MAG or Planetside-esqe game which would be a tight shooting game with some RPG characteristics, rather than implementing skillsets, EGO powers and Perks and creating a fleshed out RPG with solid shooting mechanics.

The way PvP is supposed to be played is on a unified team, which uses group play - bringing shooting concepts into the RPG, group experience. The reason there are so many Cloak/Shotgun, Blur/Shotgun, Blur/Infector setups is due to the fact that almost no one plays with any type of team unity or setup online; these setups are specialized against unorganized, lone, unsuspecting, glass cannon opponents.

TDM doesn't promote strategy either; which my only gripe with PvP is that they need more game types (CTF, Capture and Hold, etc.), but capture and hold is basically shadow war.. Which cloak shotgunning isn't nearly as effective due to team based playing being required to capture and hold a location for victory.

If you get a team, think of a party setup like an RPG, understand the mechanics, the game makes sense in PvP. If you're trying to play PvP as a lone wolf, no party, no communication, then expect the cloak/shotgun or blur/shotgun to be able to easily pick you off an run away (like a lone wolf...).

Drakrtar
04-09-2013, 11:45 AM
This isn't an MMOFPS (Planetside/MAG) or an MMORPG... Its both combined into one.

This game's PvP should be thought of as Rift or Warcraft PvP, with guns... Attached to a larger world where players. Not a TDM on CoD or Halo, where you lobby up and expect to twitch shoot. I think many people are expecting that to be the case, which it is not. I'm sure that if Trion wanted that, they would've created some type of MAG or Planetside-esqe game which would be a tight shooting game with some RPG characteristics, rather than implementing skillsets, EGO powers and Perks and creating a fleshed out RPG with solid shooting mechanics.

The way PvP is supposed to be played is on a unified team, which uses group play - bringing shooting concepts into the RPG, group experience. The reason there are so many Cloak/Shotgun, Blur/Shotgun, Blur/Infector setups is due to the fact that almost no one plays with any type of team unity or setup online; these setups are specialized against unorganized, lone, unsuspecting, glass cannon opponents.

TDM doesn't promote strategy either; which my only gripe with PvP is that they need more game types (CTF, Capture and Hold, etc.), but capture and hold is basically shadow war.. Which cloak shotgunning isn't nearly as effective due to team based playing being required to capture and hold a location for victory.

If you get a team, think of a party setup like an RPG, understand the mechanics, the game makes sense in PvP. If you're trying to play PvP as a lone wolf, no party, no communication, then expect the cloak/shotgun or blur/shotgun to be able to easily pick you off an run away (like a lone wolf...).

While shadow wars does offer this it is more like battlefield or planetside then wow or rift. The 6v6 and 8v8's solo queue are what i was referring to. And you are right in one aspect this isn't an MMOFPS it IS an MMOTPS which planetside is as well. It IS a shooter. The fact you have to aim to get kills instead of click and spam skills is exactly the difference between this and WoW pvp.

Also if pvp was meant to be solely for clans then it would be clan v clan not solo queued. Obviously they had this intention. As for this strategy only being effective against "lone wolfs" sorry but that's not quite accurate i've brought down plenty of "clannies" that were working together and even healing each other with this setup. Basically the way it is currently setup IS TDM that is exactly what you do here. QUEUE up to fight with one team vs another. Pre made team or not that IS exactly what this system is. Which is what MOST of your mmofps,tps,fps's competitive sides are. No strategy? Love to see you go into a CS:S TDM vs any competitive clan and say that.

Upinya: Sorry but have you ever touched a PC fps style game? I've played halo and yes that is quite standard for crappy console ones but in a "competitive" format such as Counter strike it's extremely hindered. Nobody looks at hopping around and getting pop shots as being skilled.

Goomba: Go troll elsewhere please just making some false statement without even offering any counter argument to back it up is a waste of time and space.

In the end this is unbalanced pvp anyone that has experience with MMO, MMOFPS, or MMOTPS can see it clear as day. THIS almost always happens when games put in pvp as an after thought or the team has little experience with this type of pvp. I give props to the dev team for doing as well as they have and only offer this post as a warning to other PC gamers coming in brand new expecting a PC title pvp. It's great they are catering to the lack of skill that swarms xbox fps users but it's frustrating on the PC side.

The fact the forums are flooding with people talking about these exact same issues is not a coincidence it's a sign. Hopefully the Dev team will balance it out better in the future but like I said before I am sure they have more important issues to deal with for now. So take from this what you will but any PC gamer that comes from the FPS world will understand what I am warning them about. (Yes I know this is a TPS but a lot of the same principles still apply the only difference really is perspective)

labotimy
04-09-2013, 12:18 PM
While shadow wars does offer this it is more like battlefield or planetside then wow or rift. The 6v6 and 8v8's solo queue are what i was referring to. And you are right in one aspect this isn't an MMOFPS it IS an MMOTPS which planetside is as well. It IS a shooter. The fact you have to aim to get kills instead of click and spam skills is exactly the difference between this and WoW pvp.

Also if pvp was meant to be solely for clans then it would be clan v clan not solo queued. Obviously they had this intention. As for this strategy only being effective against "lone wolfs" sorry but that's not quite accurate i've brought down plenty of "clannies" that were working together and even healing each other with this setup. Basically the way it is currently setup IS TDM that is exactly what you do here. QUEUE up to fight with one team vs another. Pre made team or not that IS exactly what this system is. Which is what MOST of your mmofps,tps,fps's competitive sides are. No strategy? Love to see you go into a CS:S TDM vs any competitive clan and say that.

Upinya: Sorry but have you ever touched a PC fps style game? I've played halo and yes that is quite standard for crappy console ones but in a "competitive" format such as Counter strike it's extremely hindered. Nobody looks at hopping around and getting pop shots as being skilled.

Goomba: Go troll elsewhere please just making some false statement without even offering any counter argument to back it up is a waste of time and space.

In the end this is unbalanced pvp anyone that has experience with MMO, MMOFPS, or MMOTPS can see it clear as day. THIS almost always happens when games put in pvp as an after thought or the team has little experience with this type of pvp. I give props to the dev team for doing as well as they have and only offer this post as a warning to other PC gamers coming in brand new expecting a PC title pvp. It's great they are catering to the lack of skill that swarms xbox fps users but it's frustrating on the PC side.

The fact the forums are flooding with people talking about these exact same issues is not a coincidence it's a sign. Hopefully the Dev team will balance it out better in the future but like I said before I am sure they have more important issues to deal with for now. So take from this what you will but any PC gamer that comes from the FPS world will understand what I am warning them about. (Yes I know this is a TPS but a lot of the same principles still apply the only difference really is perspective)

this post is so long without much being actually said.

just going to point out "the forums are flooding with people talking about these exact same issues", this is due to most players not being in that top 15% of what we can call skilled players. most people consider themselves good at anything until they try something with competition at which point they fail and have to resort to whining.

Drakrtar
04-09-2013, 12:51 PM
this post is so long without much being actually said.

just going to point out "the forums are flooding with people talking about these exact same issues", this is due to most players not being in that top 15% of what we can call skilled players. most people consider themselves good at anything until they try something with competition at which point they fail and have to resort to whining.

No that would be skilled players watching hop kiddos get more credit then they actually deserve. The system is broke also with it's scaling. I just had 1600+ ego power players in my game with me only having 600 ego. That's 1 extra perk slot advantage on top of everything else.

I said plenty, I apologize if it was hard for you to understand. Also with a game that is unbalanced and pay to level faster the "top 15%" is quite subjective. Twitch/Spammers does not equal skill hate to tell you.

MosesOfWar
04-09-2013, 01:07 PM
While shadow wars does offer this it is more like battlefield or planetside then wow or rift. The 6v6 and 8v8's solo queue are what i was referring to. And you are right in one aspect this isn't an MMOFPS it IS an MMOTPS which planetside is as well. It IS a shooter. The fact you have to aim to get kills instead of click and spam skills is exactly the difference between this and WoW pvp.

Also if pvp was meant to be solely for clans then it would be clan v clan not solo queued. Obviously they had this intention. As for this strategy only being effective against "lone wolfs" sorry but that's not quite accurate i've brought down plenty of "clannies" that were working together and even healing each other with this setup. Basically the way it is currently setup IS TDM that is exactly what you do here. QUEUE up to fight with one team vs another. Pre made team or not that IS exactly what this system is. Which is what MOST of your mmofps,tps,fps's competitive sides are. No strategy? Love to see you go into a CS:S TDM vs any competitive clan and say that.

Upinya: Sorry but have you ever touched a PC fps style game? I've played halo and yes that is quite standard for crappy console ones but in a "competitive" format such as Counter strike it's extremely hindered. Nobody looks at hopping around and getting pop shots as being skilled.

Goomba: Go troll elsewhere please just making some false statement without even offering any counter argument to back it up is a waste of time and space.

In the end this is unbalanced pvp anyone that has experience with MMO, MMOFPS, or MMOTPS can see it clear as day. THIS almost always happens when games put in pvp as an after thought or the team has little experience with this type of pvp. I give props to the dev team for doing as well as they have and only offer this post as a warning to other PC gamers coming in brand new expecting a PC title pvp. It's great they are catering to the lack of skill that swarms xbox fps users but it's frustrating on the PC side.

The fact the forums are flooding with people talking about these exact same issues is not a coincidence it's a sign. Hopefully the Dev team will balance it out better in the future but like I said before I am sure they have more important issues to deal with for now. So take from this what you will but any PC gamer that comes from the FPS world will understand what I am warning them about. (Yes I know this is a TPS but a lot of the same principles still apply the only difference really is perspective)

Only thing that I can agree with is that Counter-Strike is the only TDM that requires teamwork other than the first Gear of War (Due to no respawns). I can't really say any other statement here is justifiable. The biggest error in the comparisons that many people are making is that Defiance is, lets just say, a Massive Multiplayer Shooting Game and they forget to reference the fact that this game has core underlying RPG aspects. It's not like Planetside or MAG where "Rank Up", have access to better equipment, gear etc. In Defiance, there are underlying numbers to how combat works that come from the RPG spectrum (if you don't believe me, turn on the option to view your damage numbers in settings); basically, a gun against one build is NOT going to have the same effect against another build. Gun "a" does "b" damage at "c" range, in Defiance, for example, the gun may do different damage with "x" element against "y" shield and "z" perk. Each of these can be amplified, or countered with EGO powers, this creates the necessity for a team. Perk/Equipment setup and Team composition are the Metagame here and Defiance plays out more-so like a MOBA style Shooter than anything I've seen before.

Now with most players not reading the forums other than when they get destroyed on multiplayer, the look at what they got destroyed by and emulate it. Most teams, even, are shotgun/cloak users and blur/bmg/infector users. That's not solid team composition, or they just plain suck. In any case, the reason why people think PvP is broken, or imbalanced, or unfair is it's because, like a MOBA certain builds are still being discovered and learned while the game mechanics and trying to be understand... This isn't just a twitch reaction shooting game after all and the reason why people think its unfair and imbalanced, is because that's what they believe this game is...


this post is so long without much being actually said.

just going to point out "the forums are flooding with people talking about these exact same issues", this is due to most players not being in that top 15% of what we can call skilled players. most people consider themselves good at anything until they try something with competition at which point they fail and have to resort to whining.

^ This is awesome. Bravo sir. Bravo.


...The system is broke also with it's scaling. I just had 1600+ ego power players in my game with me only having 600 ego. That's 1 extra perk slot advantage on top of everything else....


This I can agree with. You should be put PvP instances where you are against people of your same EGO level.

Kwatos
04-09-2013, 01:12 PM
No offense man, but you are incorrect with alot of what you said. This game is more like halo, try telling the halo people to stop jumping =/

Dwane
04-09-2013, 01:13 PM
I just had 1600+ ego power players in my game with me only having 600 ego. That's 1 extra perk slot advantage on top of everything else.

That 1 slot is pretty much all they got. All weapons are same, be it ego 1 or 5000. Difference in shields between 600 and 1600 ego is like 50, same for nades?

And i didnt seen single 1600+ player yet.

Kwatos
04-09-2013, 01:14 PM
You really don't get much more for being a higher ego rating, every 1k you get another perk slot, thats about it, and the guns get better, they get more things on them.

Liage13
04-09-2013, 01:14 PM
I'm not by any means super awesome at pvp, but I have found while jumping in solo, if I get decently lucky and have a team that moves together in 2's and 3's we have a lot easier time winning than the team that runs around lone wolfing it.

Clearly I'm not an example for every case, and there are some people who are exceptionally talented at twitch shooting the shotgun from a corner or while invis from behind. I honestly find though that if you stick to the old team pvp "rules" of moving with a group, don't run through the middle alone, check your corners, maintain solid map awareness and don't chase you'll do half way decent.

I mean yeah, there is an odd bunny hopper here and there that is completely amazing at hitting the spacebar and moving the mouse over someone's head, but for the most part those people die really fast because their movements are no longer unpredictable. You can use any gun and follow their head along a path repeatedly critting them. In tight spots, they'll probably win the gun fight, but in the open if you can roll away or slow them down you can probably s key them to death. Especially if you spec for pvp, and they don't get a good spread on their first shot.

I agree, it's not an e-sport worthy environment, but I also don't think CoD is an e-sport worthy environment, same rules apply. I mean... being able to be invisible is a corner campers wet dream, started seeing plenty of that lately, more irritating than bunny hopping shotgunners or tubers.

Kwatos
04-09-2013, 01:19 PM
There is way too much complaining about the pvp environment, what happened to accepting what is and finding ways to break the format.

MosesOfWar
04-09-2013, 01:24 PM
There is way too much complaining about the pvp environment, what happened to accepting what is and finding ways to break the format.

Exactly. Why does every game on the market's PvP have to be the same? Something unique comes out and it's bashed because, "I can't pwn everybody with my CoD LAWLZAR halo BF3 MWUAHA##!%^@$#%@!# style of playing." The game isn't titled "Generic First Person Shooter, with a Persistent World" and trying to force the game to become that is just as frustrating and not trying to understand it in it's current state. There are legitimate "broken" aspects in multiplayer, like PC's becoming invisible. Just because the gameplay/style isn't fully understood, doesn't mean it's imbalanced, unfair or OP.

Kwatos
04-09-2013, 01:30 PM
I'm so glad people like you can use actual words to describe exactly how I feel. I would just say "you're bad get better" :)

Drakrtar
04-09-2013, 02:06 PM
No offense man, but you are incorrect with alot of what you said. This game is more like halo, try telling the halo people to stop jumping =/

That is hilarious considering you were the 1600+ in my game i was referring to granted you were on my team lol The glowing example of jumping, stealth, infector getting top slots yet I am wrong? Also the main reason this is more like "halo" in fighting style is because they had to dumb it down for console players. If they tried to make it like a PC equivalent the consoles would be complaining. So yes to a point not a lot can be done about that aspect however, there is still balance issues.

MosesofWar: Are we even playing the same game? First you say it's not TDM (which that is EXACTLY what it is look up what that is please). Then you say it's more like wow then planetside? You rank up by leveling and you get ONE main ability that emulates a class. The weapons are what makes the biggest difference here. That is almost a copy of games like planet side except the "leveling/ranking" is covered differently.

The perk system is just the same as the rank system in COD or Battlefield you get access to more and/or better abilities the higher you go. You have to AIM your gun it's not "select target, spam ability" Yes of course there will be "builds" and that's the issue here is one specific "build" is obviously more superior then the rest. Also keep in mind in everything I pointed out "builds" were NOT the only thing I mentioned.

Jumping around like a scared child and spray'n praying is NOT skilled, but it's the most valid play style at this point which is why I hope the devs address it. Honestly my main goal here was to give someone new to it an idea of what to expect. I know it's not perfect and it needs work that's obvious, but arguing just for the sake of trying to justify your play styles still doesn't change the fact that there is a balance issue.

ALL PVP in games have balance issues to iron out at the beginning and it takes quite some time to find that happy place. If you are trying to tell me that everything people are saying is wrong, the devs asking for feedback is what just them being nice? lol I get it you like to hop around and feel like you are good that's ok. Still needs balancing.

fang1192
04-09-2013, 02:09 PM
Why would you use a fast recharge shield with cloak?

Drakrtar
04-09-2013, 02:11 PM
There's a reason the games of today are following a certain style and it's not because they are just "cookie cutters" it's because out of ALL the gamers in the world this style has become the most accepted and is also the most "fair" for players involved. It has been evolving and of course will continue to evolve over time, but this method used here is not "new" it's old school which most companies have learned from trial and error.

I can roll a stealth grab a shotty and just sit at the top spot too I already can hit it without stealth but I just like to have fun and test out different builds. So it's not that "i can't pwn everybody" it's that I hope to see this become a more respectable version of what it is. Also as I said before I have NEVER seen a games pvp mechanic work PERFECT out the door and I'd love to see you find one. BALANCE is ALWAYS an issue with these things. Just because you enjoy "pwning like a pro" doesn't mean it's balanced and you are one lol

Drakrtar
04-09-2013, 02:12 PM
So you can get in and out quicker. Fight, shield breaks, stealth, fast full shield, return to fight quicker

fang1192
04-09-2013, 02:13 PM
You want a high recharge not a fast one.

Kwatos
04-09-2013, 02:16 PM
This is what I mean man, I don't use infector's =/ Tell Quake players not to jump, thats a pc game isn't it? If you don't like the game, go play one you do like. Don't complain and get the game watered down to your liking like WoW did =/


P.S. @ OP > How were you able to tell my EGO in the PvP match, im curious on that.

Drakrtar
04-09-2013, 02:22 PM
Ah could be i've never used stealth so didn't know it lasted long enough to actually have the high recharge shields kick in. That's even more imbalanced then I thought lol

Drakrtar
04-09-2013, 02:24 PM
This is what I mean man, I don't use infector's =/ Tell Quake players not to jump, thats a pc game isn't it? If you don't like the game, go play one you do like. Don't complain and get the game watered down to your liking like WoW did =/


P.S. @ OP > How were you able to tell my EGO in the PvP match, im curious on that.

Immediately after the game I did a player search on you because you went 10/0 in the game I was playing and I wanted to see your build which was in fact Infector/Sniper/Stealth.

Kwatos
04-09-2013, 02:27 PM
Interesting, must have been a late night game, I figured I would be known as the Shotgun Guy. I think I remember playing a game with infector sniper, that loadout is one that im leveling the skills up for the Pursuits, it is entirely possible that took place, but only once!

P.S. I remember playing a few games against you last night, curious that you only remember that one :P

Edit: Wow the player search and inspect function are pretty cool, I tried that before and the inspect never worked, thanks for the info :)

MosesOfWar
04-09-2013, 02:32 PM
That is hilarious considering you were the 1600+ in my game i was referring to granted you were on my team lol The glowing example of jumping, stealth, infector getting top slots yet I am wrong? Also the main reason this is more like "halo" in fighting style is because they had to dumb it down for console players. If they tried to make it like a PC equivalent the consoles would be complaining. So yes to a point not a lot can be done about that aspect however, there is still balance issues.

MosesofWar: Are we even playing the same game? First you say it's not TDM (which that is EXACTLY what it is look up what that is please). Then you say it's more like wow then planetside? You rank up by leveling and you get ONE main ability that emulates a class. The weapons are what makes the biggest difference here. That is almost a copy of games like planet side except the "leveling/ranking" is covered differently.

The perk system is just the same as the rank system in COD or Battlefield you get access to more and/or better abilities the higher you go. You have to AIM your gun it's not "select target, spam ability" Yes of course there will be "builds" and that's the issue here is one specific "build" is obviously more superior then the rest. Also keep in mind in everything I pointed out "builds" were NOT the only thing I mentioned.

Jumping around like a scared child and spray'n praying is NOT skilled, but it's the most valid play style at this point which is why I hope the devs address it. Honestly my main goal here was to give someone new to it an idea of what to expect. I know it's not perfect and it needs work that's obvious, but arguing just for the sake of trying to justify your play styles still doesn't change the fact that there is a balance issue.

ALL PVP in games have balance issues to iron out at the beginning and it takes quite some time to find that happy place. If you are trying to tell me that everything people are saying is wrong, the devs asking for feedback is what just them being nice? lol I get it you like to hop around and feel like you are good that's ok. Still needs balancing.

I never once mentioned that this game wasn't TDM... Please read over what I said rather than making things up for me. I do a fine job of making things up myself. My statement is this game relies on more team mechanics than a twitch shooter and TDM doesn't belay any type of "goals" or "Punishments" for teamwork; its not objective based.. It's kill, kill, kill.. When that's the case, if your going to for that mentality, the majority of people, playing random and lone wolf, are going to spec that way.. ergo, shotgun/cloaking. This is WHY it's more akin to an RPG than twitch shooter; because a Cloaker with a shotgun (basically a backstabbing rogue in the RPG sense), is going to outright PWN unaware, new, isolated PCs - unless they are specced to counter that, such as using a Decoy with Sensor Sweep, BioGrenades, Infector/BMG and full tank Perks. That's how it's supposed to be... because this isn't a pick up and play, twitch shooter. If you want that, you mentioned a staple of games that provide that experience. It's not supposed to be a internationally recognized, cookie cutter, FPS style of play that people are used to seeing. Once again, if they were trying to do that, the game would mimic those styles, which is doesn't.. Much like the actual PvE, the scope of this game has been something more, an attempt to radically merge two genres and the multiplayer is an attempt to do that as well. I mentioned, there were glitches, maps, game types, etc that are problematic, but asserting that "this is the way you should play, or expect to play" is a sweeping generalization for a game one week old, with an infant metagame.

You keep comparing this game to Halo, CoD, Battlefield, etc. It's not anything like that and this is why you made the initial post (this is where you make a case for a playstyle.. And I play Decoy/Armor/BMG/Infector and I don't complain about Cloak):


First I say "competitive" because this really is not. The only competition here is who can jump around the most or whom has picked the stealth class. As a seasoned FPSer who has played in competitive leagues I am dumbfounded how Defiance can call this competitive.

With that said:

Tip 1: Spec Stealth
Tip 2: Get a fast recharge shield
Tip 3: Use Shotgun unless you cannot aim and have little skill then use infector
Tip 4: Jump around constantly like you would in a real fire fight. /sarcasm

I am appalled at the amount of bunny hopping that is filling pvp especially when there are specs and weapons that give bonus when crouching. It simply cannot be utilized when 80% of the players are stealthily moving around with shotguns and jumping circles around you.

Any other setup CAN get you kills but to be top tier constantly this is pretty much the only real option. (I am spec overload and can still peak top but only if i use a shotty/det combo)


This game plays out more like a massive Borderlands than any game that you're trying to compare it to and even that's a bad comparison. It's an RPG/Shooter, there are classes and specific EGOs counter each other. It's not the horribly unbalanced, PvP system that your stating. PvP in this game will evolve more along the lines with a metagame, of PvP on MMORPGs or a MOBA rather than MMOTPSs or MMOFPSs because of the Abilities, Perks, Shields, Weapon types, and elemental bonuses along with mods that give specific loadouts advantages over some, but weaknesses over others.. Toggle your visible damage numbers on, you'll see that there's more to the game than whose got the best reflexes and I think new players need to understand this- this is why I've continued to mention these internal aspects of the game and loose class system.

Kwatos
04-09-2013, 02:37 PM
I wish I had time in between games to say intelligible things, there's alot to say about this game, most of it is amazingly good, let's try to stick to that stuff, let's not make this game a negativity fest like most MMO's are, let us just accept that the game is the way it is for now, and try to figure out ways to succeed given what we have! Cya out there bro's.

EU Railgun
04-09-2013, 03:01 PM
about competitive why I got only two maps? and what is Capture and hold? many thanks

Kwatos
04-09-2013, 03:06 PM
Freight Yard was removed to fix an game breaking exploit, expect it back around the release of the TV show on April 15. It will be nice having a more open map, I can finally NOT use shotguns..... as if THAT will happen XD

Grizzly
04-09-2013, 03:06 PM
I always figured that jumping up and down and trying to target another person who is also jumping up and down takes more skill than just crouching in one spot

guess I was wrong

Tekkor
04-09-2013, 03:21 PM
I just dont understand why people are so quick to complain and also to assume that everyone is doing the same thing.

Im only like 370ish Ego rank right now. I do not bunny hop (click my YT channel below and watch my videos on shotgun and assault rifle). I barely ever bother with Cloaked kills. I do just fine. I do roll a fair amount but thats only smart...I mean Im not going to stand still and let you shoot me.

I just played 4 rounds a bit ago. I went 9-1, 14-2, 17-5, 7-4. I never get one shot by shotgun's as I have defensive perks setup and use a Ironclad shield with like 1578 or something shield.

I think people just want it handed to them and to be easy or something. Ive already made two videos showing basic tactics. I guess I could keep making more and more videos...but people would not watch them and just keep complaining saying "The only way you can do pvp is cloak and shotguns..." even though I and other people keeping say thats not true and even making videos showing it.

Escalith
04-09-2013, 06:47 PM
I just dont understand why people are so quick to complain and also to assume that everyone is doing the same thing.

Im only like 370ish Ego rank right now. I do not bunny hop (click my YT channel below and watch my videos on shotgun and assault rifle). I barely ever bother with Cloaked kills. I do just fine. I do roll a fair amount but thats only smart...I mean Im not going to stand still and let you shoot me.

I just played 4 rounds a bit ago. I went 9-1, 14-2, 17-5, 7-4. I never get one shot by shotgun's as I have defensive perks setup and use a Ironclad shield with like 1578 or something shield.

I think people just want it handed to them and to be easy or something. Ive already made two videos showing basic tactics. I guess I could keep making more and more videos...but people would not watch them and just keep complaining saying "The only way you can do pvp is cloak and shotguns..." even though I and other people keeping say thats not true and even making videos showing it.


Honestly, all I can see in your video - at least the AR one, is that no matter how bad a weapon is - with cloak and flanking enemies you can score kills.

Any 1v1, regardless how little they matter, you lost or ran away from - minus one against another AR user.
You missed several kills that you could've secured using a shotgun, just because you wanted to use an AR.
Even though you try to break from the mold that is cloak+shotgun, you still use cloak to sneak up on enemies and shoot them in the back. Just takes you a whole lot longer.

Cloak, in it's current state - either is far too strong; or has too little counters.

"Oh, oh, but they aren't completely invisible!! Open your eyes~!" - Alot of people like to say that, yeah. They aren't completely invisible and if they run up at you cloaked you can spot them, but most are smart enough to sneak around you and flank you. Unless you sit in a corner and play turtle or you're a PvP Expert being able to scan the screen while you move 60 times per second, you won't spot them sneaking around to flank you.

"Look, look! I'm using other weapons, they are fine too!" - No, they are not. There's a reason 90% of all people in PvP, especially the ones scoring at the top use a mixture of the following:
Infectors - Shotguns - Medi Guns. Sure you can use a SMG and blow 1-2 clips into a person for them to die, or you can use a shotgun and do it in 1/5th of the time. Are other weapons possible? yes. Are they just as effective? Absolutely not, unless you're delusional.

"But hey, powers are meant to counter eachother, use Decoy/Radar to uncloak players!" - You ever tried using Decoy + Radar? I've for the past 30-40 games. Sure it can reveal stealthed players - but when do you use it? How do you use it? You need to know WHEN people are able to Cloak, that's an easy one considering all powers charge at the same time starting the game. You need to know WHICH route stealthers take. It's easy to waste it. You're just a sitting duck with a 1 minute cooldown button to press when you 'feel' you could get flanked. If people stealth infront of you - hell you don't need radar just gun them down. Let's say the chance that you: Successfully use Decoy in the proper moment to reveal a stealthed player sneaking up on you, and you happen to spin around to detect the uncloaking and manage to kill them - is so small it could be a fluke. Might as well not use Decoy at all. Remember, Decoy uncloaks once, in a 30 metre radius upon use. After this anyone can once more sneak upon you.

"Just use defensive perks and kill them" - Oh yeah, sure. Good call, I bet noone ever thought of that. Currently I run -6% Overall, +225 Health, -30% Damage from behind. Half Damage after shield breaks. And you know what? It helps. Against bad players. A cloaker with any decent aim still 2-shots you. And if the cloaker ALSO uses those perks you're still at a huge disadvantage that's only counterable by /lucky/ placements.

Especially in RPGS, MMORPGS and even MOBA games, powers interact and actually build a counter. In this game - they don't.

You can't even consider to compare the PvP to MOBAs or other MMORPGS.

Sure, in lets say LoL there are stealthed heroes - but also items that counter them AND show them on the mini map such as Wards/Pink Wards. In WoW - Yes there are alot of classes that can stealth, but there are also a plenthora of skills to reveal them, such as Flare; Magma Totem, or even spamming AoE's to kick them out of stealth. And they don't instantly vanish once more by default without blowing their cooldown. A rogue won't 2-shot you either.


What this game needs, at least in PvP - are powers that actually counter-act eachother and not only on paper.

Ex: During Decoy, your Decoy reveals all enemy players in a 20-25 metre radius on the minimap, regardless of stealth or not.

Or - During Overpower, hitting a person that is speeded by blur will be slowed down to normal speed for 2 seconds, 5 second cooldown.

Or - During Blur, Hitting a decoy will instantly kill it.

As well as weapon balance changes, such as:

While jumping your Infector/Medigun does not home anymore.
While a DoT/Nano Effect is on your target, Medi Gun self-heals for 50% less.

/rant

Drakrtar
04-09-2013, 07:59 PM
Honestly, all I can see in your video - at least the AR one, is that no matter how bad a weapon is - with cloak and flanking enemies you can score kills.

Any 1v1, regardless how little they matter, you lost or ran away from - minus one against another AR user.
You missed several kills that you could've secured using a shotgun, just because you wanted to use an AR.
Even though you try to break from the mold that is cloak+shotgun, you still use cloak to sneak up on enemies and shoot them in the back. Just takes you a whole lot longer.

Cloak, in it's current state - either is far too strong; or has too little counters.

"Oh, oh, but they aren't completely invisible!! Open your eyes~!" - Alot of people like to say that, yeah. They aren't completely invisible and if they run up at you cloaked you can spot them, but most are smart enough to sneak around you and flank you. Unless you sit in a corner and play turtle or you're a PvP Expert being able to scan the screen while you move 60 times per second, you won't spot them sneaking around to flank you.

"Look, look! I'm using other weapons, they are fine too!" - No, they are not. There's a reason 90% of all people in PvP, especially the ones scoring at the top use a mixture of the following:
Infectors - Shotguns - Medi Guns. Sure you can use a SMG and blow 1-2 clips into a person for them to die, or you can use a shotgun and do it in 1/5th of the time. Are other weapons possible? yes. Are they just as effective? Absolutely not, unless you're delusional.

"But hey, powers are meant to counter eachother, use Decoy/Radar to uncloak players!" - You ever tried using Decoy + Radar? I've for the past 30-40 games. Sure it can reveal stealthed players - but when do you use it? How do you use it? You need to know WHEN people are able to Cloak, that's an easy one considering all powers charge at the same time starting the game. You need to know WHICH route stealthers take. It's easy to waste it. You're just a sitting duck with a 1 minute cooldown button to press when you 'feel' you could get flanked. If people stealth infront of you - hell you don't need radar just gun them down. Let's say the chance that you: Successfully use Decoy in the proper moment to reveal a stealthed player sneaking up on you, and you happen to spin around to detect the uncloaking and manage to kill them - is so small it could be a fluke. Might as well not use Decoy at all. Remember, Decoy uncloaks once, in a 30 metre radius upon use. After this anyone can once more sneak upon you.

"Just use defensive perks and kill them" - Oh yeah, sure. Good call, I bet noone ever thought of that. Currently I run -6% Overall, +225 Health, -30% Damage from behind. Half Damage after shield breaks. And you know what? It helps. Against bad players. A cloaker with any decent aim still 2-shots you. And if the cloaker ALSO uses those perks you're still at a huge disadvantage that's only counterable by /lucky/ placements.

Especially in RPGS, MMORPGS and even MOBA games, powers interact and actually build a counter. In this game - they don't.

You can't even consider to compare the PvP to MOBAs or other MMORPGS.

Sure, in lets say LoL there are stealthed heroes - but also items that counter them AND show them on the mini map such as Wards/Pink Wards. In WoW - Yes there are alot of classes that can stealth, but there are also a plenthora of skills to reveal them, such as Flare; Magma Totem, or even spamming AoE's to kick them out of stealth. And they don't instantly vanish once more by default without blowing their cooldown. A rogue won't 2-shot you either.


What this game needs, at least in PvP - are powers that actually counter-act eachother and not only on paper.

Ex: During Decoy, your Decoy reveals all enemy players in a 20-25 metre radius on the minimap, regardless of stealth or not.

Or - During Overpower, hitting a person that is speeded by blur will be slowed down to normal speed for 2 seconds, 5 second cooldown.

Or - During Blur, Hitting a decoy will instantly kill it.

As well as weapon balance changes, such as:

While jumping your Infector/Medigun does not home anymore.
While a DoT/Nano Effect is on your target, Medi Gun self-heals for 50% less.

/rant

Thank you! Was beginning to think I was alone here. I do like your suggestions and that's all I was saying is needed is a balance. Sadly people who LOVE stealth/shotgunning everyone only hear "nerf" and get afraid. Sorry but I've used Full Def, Big Ironclad, Def perks etc... and had the nano slugger insta death more times then not. No way to combat someone that can invis up to you and insta kill you. That is just one of the unbalanced guns in play here. (No i am not saying it shouldn't be able to insta kill someone, but not someone with FULL def setup that's just insane and defeats the entire purpose of having full def)

I must not have any luck compared to some of these other posters that never deal with this because i've probably played 50ish games over the last two days (if not more) and EVERY game has had AT LEAST one person doing this if not multiples. Which IS understandable as it is the current unbalanced way to go ( i just specced it myself and find it a lot easier to get kills) still it is a balance issue.

Kwatos
04-09-2013, 08:23 PM
Thank you! Was beginning to think I was alone here. I do like your suggestions and that's all I was saying is needed is a balance. Sadly people who LOVE stealth/shotgunning everyone only hear "nerf" and get afraid. Sorry but I've used Full Def, Big Ironclad, Def perks etc... and had the nano slugger insta death more times then not. No way to combat someone that can invis up to you and insta kill you. That is just one of the unbalanced guns in play here. (No i am not saying it shouldn't be able to insta kill someone, but not someone with FULL def setup that's just insane and defeats the entire purpose of having full def)

I must not have any luck compared to some of these other posters that never deal with this because i've probably played 50ish games over the last two days (if not more) and EVERY game has had AT LEAST one person doing this if not multiples. Which IS understandable as it is the current unbalanced way to go ( i just specced it myself and find it a lot easier to get kills) still it is a balance issue.

If you have Thick Skinned you cannot be one shot by a Nano Fragger man.

Cthulu
04-09-2013, 11:06 PM
I'[m guessing you ahven't played halo at all? bunny hopping is standard in all PvP Shooters with jumping in it

You know, back in the counter strike days (before it got hacked to hell and no longer any fun) people used to jump, sure, but when you did, you also lost momentum and became an easier target. This bunny hoping garbage being employed in this game is by far the most idiotic pvp foul up that I've seen in any game.

Lets not mention the infector/shot gunning/explosion crazed joke that is the current state of pvp. It needs balancing, badly, however I don't see that happening any time soon.

Relapse
04-09-2013, 11:43 PM
You know, back in the counter strike days (before it got hacked to hell and no longer any fun) people used to jump, sure, but when you did, you also lost momentum and became an easier target.

Lol... what are you from Source? At the most you only played 1.6 if you don't remember how bad bunny hopping was in the golden age of CS.

Upinya Slayin
04-10-2013, 09:27 AM
Upinya: Sorry but have you ever touched a PC fps style game? I've played halo and yes that is quite standard for crappy console ones but in a "competitive" format such as Counter strike it's extremely hindered. Nobody looks at hopping around and getting pop shots as being skilled.

Your on PC? that explains a lot. Counter strike i played over 10 years ago and barely remember it
Every competitive game has something that people exploit or spam to throw others off, thats part of online gaming. if you can't hit a jumping target thats kina issues with your aim more then anything.
With that said I would never play on PC, too many cheaters in MP. Only games i'd play on PC is SP only games like skyrim. ALso this is more of a co-op game with PvP thrown in. If you want competitive PvP play AC3, Cod, Halo 4, Gears of War, etc etc. This games are made to be competitive and have been doing it for years and years

I've played lots of competitive MP games and usually i find the people whining about it is due to their own lack of skill more then anything else

Emo Panther
04-10-2013, 09:50 AM
This isn't an MMOFPS (Planetside/MAG) or an MMORPG... Its both combined into one.

.

Yay! Someone who remembers playing Planetside <3!

czern
04-10-2013, 10:57 AM
so no one in this thread has tried overdrive/bmgs yet i havnt lost a game yet and i am using this with bio grenades

Drakrtar
04-10-2013, 12:51 PM
Your on PC? that explains a lot. Counter strike i played over 10 years ago and barely remember it
Every competitive game has something that people exploit or spam to throw others off, thats part of online gaming. if you can't hit a jumping target thats kina issues with your aim more then anything.
With that said I would never play on PC, too many cheaters in MP. Only games i'd play on PC is SP only games like skyrim. ALso this is more of a co-op game with PvP thrown in. If you want competitive PvP play AC3, Cod, Halo 4, Gears of War, etc etc. This games are made to be competitive and have been doing it for years and years

I've played lots of competitive MP games and usually i find the people whining about it is due to their own lack of skill more then anything else


Well first this game is played on PC as well so that's good to keep in mind, second the pure spread of bullets and recoils of guns make it more difficult to hit people hopping all over the place. This has been a tested and proven game issue in many "shooters" at least on the PC (I get it consoles gamers aren't used to balanced shooters) but that doesn't mean this game should just ignore it as an issue.

Also THEY CALL IT "Competitive" so stating it isn't to be considered as a competitive game style is just silly. You are right people do exploit or spam for their benefit that is why other people call them out on it and try to make the devs aware of the problem. Otherwise they may miss it or think people don't care. How do you think things get improved?

I actually tried this little tactic now and find it amusing how easy it is to get kills I find if the rest of my team doesn't suck it's easy to be in the top place. I even told my friend whom has NO pvp or shooter experience really to try it out and he went to second place first game lol

Upinya Slayin
04-10-2013, 01:22 PM
Well first this game is played on PC as well so that's good to keep in mind, second the pure spread of bullets and recoils of guns make it more difficult to hit people hopping all over the place. This has been a tested and proven game issue in many "shooters" at least on the PC (I get it consoles gamers aren't used to balanced shooters) but that doesn't mean this game should just ignore it as an issue.

Also THEY CALL IT "Competitive" so stating it isn't to be considered as a competitive game style is just silly. You are right people do exploit or spam for their benefit that is why other people call them out on it and try to make the devs aware of the problem. Otherwise they may miss it or think people don't care. How do you think things get improved?

I actually tried this little tactic now and find it amusing how easy it is to get kills I find if the rest of my team doesn't suck it's easy to be in the top place. I even told my friend whom has NO pvp or shooter experience really to try it out and he went to second place first game lol

yes i'm aware this gameis on every platform, but on Pvp games PC players have lote of cheaters to deal with. it happens on console but not as often. not even close. consoles have to expliot glitches to cheat which can be patced. PC players can edit their files rather easily and cheat and ruin the experiance for everyone.

The idea of somebody in a PvP doing somehting thatmakes it difficult to hit them is pretty standard. would you like them all to sit still? i admit its an adjustemnt but after loggin quite some time in halo bunny hopping and aiming is somehting you adjust for. eveyr game has mecanics people use to make it hard to aim at them. halo has bunny hopping, AC3 had reverse drop stuns, Gears of War has wall bouncing etc etc. and how would console gamers nto be used to balanced shooters. i'd say they are far more balanceed then PC verison becuase eveyrbody has the same hardware, same controllers, and internet is lag compensated for. also mods are extremly rare. on PC you have people using 200+ dollar mouses and with processers faster then others, and hackers. Games like halo are extremly balanced.

I also never said they should ignore issues, but i don't se how somebody jumping to avoid being shot in the head is an issue, again you want them to sit there and take damage in the open? you can play against bots for that. and when i said "not competative" i'm syaing that most people didn't buy teh game to play the PvP modes. they brought it to play co-op. there are plenty of other games hwre MP is geared towards PvP like halo, Cod, Battelfied, AC, GoW, etc. those MP games are geared to PvP. this one is geared towards co-op with a PvP mode added.

And there is a difference in using jump to make it hard to hit compared to exploiting. you can call it cheap if you want, but in reality again there is nothing wrong with it. whats next complaing people are strafing or taking cover? the diea of a shooter is to kill people and not get killed. its pretty basic. if jumping saves me from getting killed i'm gonna jump. its not rocket science and it isn't an expliot. and exploit would be like having a way that your abilities dind't cool down and you ru aorund cloacked teh entire game. taht is somehting the should get rbought to the devs attention.

Saying "hey devs your game is broken becuase somebody jumped and it made me miss them" is beyond insane. I really don't think you udnerstand balanc. balance isnot forcing eveyrone into 1 gameplay style that fits you, balance is making all things somehwat equally effective or having their own role. for instance i hate when people camp but its not an exlpiot or anhting that needs fixing. its annoying and makes the game not fun, but its not cheating or exlplioting. its just cheap and annoying

and if the tactic works for you keep doing it and don't complain. its pretty simple

Drakrtar
04-22-2013, 07:29 PM
yes i'm aware this gameis on every platform, but on Pvp games PC players have lote of cheaters to deal with. it happens on console but not as often. not even close. consoles have to expliot glitches to cheat which can be patced. PC players can edit their files rather easily and cheat and ruin the experiance for everyone.

The idea of somebody in a PvP doing somehting thatmakes it difficult to hit them is pretty standard. would you like them all to sit still? i admit its an adjustemnt but after loggin quite some time in halo bunny hopping and aiming is somehting you adjust for. eveyr game has mecanics people use to make it hard to aim at them. halo has bunny hopping, AC3 had reverse drop stuns, Gears of War has wall bouncing etc etc. and how would console gamers nto be used to balanced shooters. i'd say they are far more balanceed then PC verison becuase eveyrbody has the same hardware, same controllers, and internet is lag compensated for. also mods are extremly rare. on PC you have people using 200+ dollar mouses and with processers faster then others, and hackers. Games like halo are extremly balanced.

I also never said they should ignore issues, but i don't se how somebody jumping to avoid being shot in the head is an issue, again you want them to sit there and take damage in the open? you can play against bots for that. and when i said "not competative" i'm syaing that most people didn't buy teh game to play the PvP modes. they brought it to play co-op. there are plenty of other games hwre MP is geared towards PvP like halo, Cod, Battelfied, AC, GoW, etc. those MP games are geared to PvP. this one is geared towards co-op with a PvP mode added.

And there is a difference in using jump to make it hard to hit compared to exploiting. you can call it cheap if you want, but in reality again there is nothing wrong with it. whats next complaing people are strafing or taking cover? the diea of a shooter is to kill people and not get killed. its pretty basic. if jumping saves me from getting killed i'm gonna jump. its not rocket science and it isn't an expliot. and exploit would be like having a way that your abilities dind't cool down and you ru aorund cloacked teh entire game. taht is somehting the should get rbought to the devs attention.

Saying "hey devs your game is broken becuase somebody jumped and it made me miss them" is beyond insane. I really don't think you udnerstand balanc. balance isnot forcing eveyrone into 1 gameplay style that fits you, balance is making all things somehwat equally effective or having their own role. for instance i hate when people camp but its not an exlpiot or anhting that needs fixing. its annoying and makes the game not fun, but its not cheating or exlplioting. its just cheap and annoying

and if the tactic works for you keep doing it and don't complain. its pretty simple


Basically done with the convo but wanted to point out there's a HUGE difference between a person jumping once to evade an attacking and some kid spamming jump and constantly bouncing around like a bouncy ball. While it really isn't that difficult to hit them. It looks like crap and ruins some of the immersion. If you think I am wrong please lets play some paintball i'd love to see you jump around like they do. Stamina wise i'd bet you wouldn't make it past the 3rd hop before you would see a difference. However here you can just hop around forever like some super stamina filled psychopath. THAT is the issue. Aside from it being impossible for a person to actually do it looks moronic and silly like a damn cartoon.