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View Full Version : What is up with the weapons trion.



Codicakes
04-09-2013, 06:32 PM
Ok so you start off your game and you get a assault rifle for instance 300 levels later you get the same assault rifle the exact same stats but like its more rare in its color. I have a white gun that is the same stats as a blue gun and its like 200+ levels in the difference so can someone care to explain what the hell Trion was thinking when this weapon system was created if its staying like this or if its getting fixed.

ranger2410
04-09-2013, 06:47 PM
Ok so you start off your game and you get a assault rifle for instance 300 levels later you get the same assault rifle the exact same stats but like its more rare in its color. I have a white gun that is the same stats as a blue gun and its like 200+ levels in the difference so can someone care to explain what the hell Trion was thinking when this weapon system was created if its staying like this or if its getting fixed.

I sure hope they get their heads out their rears and fix it, the current system is bad. just plain bad. it's been over a thousand ego levels since I found an upgrade, I'm still using an ego rating 0 purple assault rifle that has been better than the 3 oranges I have found. the game gives next to no sense of progression as quite frankly you can effectively use the guns you start with forever.

Codicakes
04-09-2013, 06:49 PM
Yeah dude like i was telling my brother he said like if you found a orange weapon in WoW people would go nuts but man orange weapons are legendary? i dont think so i hope the fix it too

Rogue345
04-09-2013, 06:51 PM
If they did change it the game will be broken. The way mobs scale is with the amount of people around them so if i do 2x my current damage with a new gun on a mob when im solo it will die 2 fast the other way to change it would be rescaling the whole game/instances

Indoril Aust
04-09-2013, 06:54 PM
If they did change it the game will be broken. The way mobs scale is with the amount of people around them so if i do 2x my current damage with a new gun on a mob when im solo it will die 2 fast the other way to change it would be rescaling the whole game/instances

Indeed with Overcharge active and my 222 Firestorm I destroy the tougher mobs in a matter of seconds I have one that did 444 damage but it fired so slow that I just downgraded again lol.

Codicakes
04-09-2013, 06:55 PM
Well if thats the case and it stays like that this game is gunna turn out really bad

fang1192
04-09-2013, 06:57 PM
If you want to play an MMO that is just a gear grindfest go play an MMO thats a gear grindfest. Trion has said repeatedly that they want the game to be based more on skill then who has the best gear.

ranger2410
04-09-2013, 06:59 PM
If they did change it the game will be broken. The way mobs scale is with the amount of people around them so if i do 2x my current damage with a new gun on a mob when im solo it will die 2 fast the other way to change it would be rescaling the whole game/instances

Re-scaling everything is better than the game dying because there is no sense of progression, and there is no reason to do anything else. The game lacks a decent story, the pvp is nothing to play a game for as it's done better in tons of other games if that's all your looking for. i mean, the game just doesn't have anything it excels in.

It's a decent game, and it's fun for a bit, but there is no progression which is what drives people to Play MMO's. There is no drive.

Codicakes
04-09-2013, 07:00 PM
Its called mmo for a reason its all about getting better gear for yourself not a orange assault rifle that does the same damage and everything as my white assault rifle this game is going to fail if alot of this isnt fixed.

Indoril Aust
04-09-2013, 07:00 PM
If you want to play an MMO that is just a gear grindfest go play an MMO thats a gear grindfest. Trion has said repeatedly that they want the game to be based more on skill then who has the best gear.

I like the idea I just wish the regions would scale a bit so you couldn't go into San Francisco at 100 ego and own it lol. Make it where you need to advance like 250 ego to survive in each new region. I am enjoying the game quite a bit apart from that tho.

SynchroMystik
04-09-2013, 07:01 PM
I went to a vendor and saw 3 assault riffles

green
blue
purple

all the same stats but different prices.....: banghammeroverhead :

Tango80
04-09-2013, 07:01 PM
Your not going to find a weapon that does more white damage from ego level 10 to ego level 5000

Get over it.

So if the rifle says you do 222 damage at rank 10 then several hundred ego levels later you pick up another rifle it will still say 222 damage. The reason why is that you can pvp at ego rank 10 and kill a person with an Ego rank 5000.

They built it this way for a reason.

The only difference in the higher ranked guns is the addition of synergy bonuses.

Example with the correct synergy mods slotted into the correct synergy weapon it could do the following.
With one slot with the correct synergy mod you can have your ammo regenerate 1% every 10seconds
With 2 slots with the correct synergy mod you can have your ammo regenerate 2% every 10seconds
with 3 slots your melee damage will increase 10%
with 4 slots your melee damage will increase 15%

Different colored guns will have different amount of synergy types.
Blue tends to have one listed synergy stats.
Purple tends to have 2 to 3 listed stats.
Orange tends to have 4 listed synergy stats.

This is to avoid power creep that happens in every mmo that add expansions to the game. Look at WoW during vanilla the cool powerful stuff came from either grinding out PvP day in and out or 40 man raids. When brought out Burning Crusade all that stuff became moot and near useless due to better greens and blues.

Also this game isn't about the gear it is about the skill of the player. Again back to my first point a highly skilled ego rank 10 player can totally smash a crappy ego rank 5000 player. The only difference is the amount of perks each player has and use effectively.

Dra Fiend
04-09-2013, 07:02 PM
Your weapons get better by lvling the weapon prf so if your useing a gun with its exp bar filled your not lvlng up your weapon prf

xknight2099
04-09-2013, 07:14 PM
Isn't this supposed to be an MMOshooter? I wouldn't expect it to have the progression depth of an RPG.

Orge Lambart
04-09-2013, 07:16 PM
it's so they can have a balanced PVP, if they had scaling weapons than PVP would be broken.

Way to fix it would be having basic load outs and weapons with PVP, have the gear be totally separate from PVE gear. That would require too much work, it's easier to give out nerfed weapons and just let the people have at it.

Russ
04-09-2013, 07:19 PM
It's supposed to have SOME progression, otherwise we may as well all go back to CoD....

People keep going on about 'It's designed like this for PVP' well if that's the case, why didn't they just make a regular old 3rd person shooter, like Tomb Raider with less jumping? Forget the PVP players, there's a few thousand games out there for people who just want shoot each other. If everyone WANTED to kill each other and do NOTHING else we'd all be playing Tomb Raider MP, U3 MP, CoD, BF3....every fighting game ever....basically one of a million bloody choices, an MMO is NOT just for people to compete against each other.

Rant over. Hopefully someone got the point.

Orge Lambart
04-09-2013, 07:23 PM
It's supposed to have SOME progression, otherwise we may as well all go back to CoD....

People keep going on about 'It's designed like this for PVP' well if that's the case, why didn't they just make a regular old 3rd person shooter, like Tomb Raider with less jumping? Forget the PVP players, there's a few thousand games out there for people who just want shoot each other. If everyone WANTED to kill each other and do NOTHING else we'd all be playing Tomb Raider MP, U3 MP, CoD, BF3....every fighting game ever....basically one of a million bloody choices, an MMO is NOT just for people to compete against each other.

Rant over. Hopefully someone got the point.

the truth is this was the only way to balance PVP outside of what I said. Go play Two Worlds 2 which has PVP with zero balance and you'll see why this was necessary. Otherwise you'll have the high level guys with no skill going into PVP and just dominating everyone.

This way, it's more of a leveled playing field. The high level guys can use their perks to have an advantage, but without skills the perks won't save you every time. In all honesty they should have had it similar to Rift with the multiple sets of gear for PVE and PVP. Take it a step further and give you two completely different inventories for PVP and PVE. This way you can PVE to your hearts content with basic weapons, and in PVE you can see weapons getting better over time.

GodSpark
04-09-2013, 07:26 PM
If the weapon damage scaled with EGO level, and the mob difficulty scaled with EGO level, all it would do is create problems with the map, grouping, and PvP.

Example: Your Lvl10 Pistol does 100 damage against a lvl10 mob that has 1000 health. 10 shots to kill it. Your Lvl20 Pistol does 200 damage, and the lvl20 mob has 2000 health. 10 shots to kill it. When they both scale, it is the same.

Level scaled gear and mobs only creates the illusion of advancement. With Defiance's system Trion has done away with the rubbish and gotten to the bare bones of MMO gear and gameplay. And in doing so, people can play together anywhere on the map without worrying about low and high levels.

They did it right.

Russ
04-09-2013, 07:35 PM
See the problem with that, is that someone who's been playing for 10 weeks, provided they've actually DONE some of the content, should be NOTICIBLY better than someone whos been playing 10 hours. MMO's are supposed to reward you based on the time you put in over other players. Every other single MMO ever does it, so why not this one? And as for doing it right, an interesting point on your part but if its all about being as inclusionary as possible why not be pretty damn sure the communication aspect of the system actually works, or making it top priority when they realize it doesn't? They've put a patch in tonight to remove the spam of EGO rating when you log in....great, all well and good, but there's a whole bunch of other stuff they could of taken care of ahead of that.

crazyc2k
04-09-2013, 07:38 PM
Your weapons get better by lvling the weapon prf so if your useing a gun with its exp bar filled your not lvlng up your weapon prf

yeah like dra said. your progression comes in the weapon class not finding super weapons. because you get bonuses like more dmg, faster reloads, etc. as soon as i max out a wep im selling it or scrapping, and move on to the next weapon in that class.

GodSpark
04-09-2013, 07:43 PM
Breaking this into points so I can respond better.



1.See the problem with that, is that someone who's been playing for 10 weeks, provided they've actually DONE some of the content, should be NOTICIBLY better than someone whos been playing 10 hours.

2.MMO's are supposed to reward you based on the time you put in over other players. Every other single MMO ever does it, so why not this one?

3.And as for doing it right, an interesting point on your part but if its all about being as inclusionary as possible why not be pretty damn sure the communication aspect of the system actually works, or making it top priority when they realize it doesn't? They've put a patch in tonight to remove the spam of EGO rating when you log in....great, all well and good, but there's a whole bunch of other stuff they could of taken care of ahead of that.

1. You will be. You will be more skilled at the game, and with the small improvements on your gear added to your ability, it should be noticable. I know I could kick the crap out of my earlier self.

2. No they are not. MMORPGs maybe, but not MMOs. There is a difference, a whopping big one at that. Besides, Defiance is doing something new. Breaking the mold of WoW, so to speak. Isn't that what people have been begging for?

3. They will fix things eventually. The daily patches should tell you this.

Russ
04-09-2013, 07:48 PM
We could trade pluses and minuses back and forth on this until the proverbial cows come home. The fact of it is that Trion have spent 5 years to not do it properly. Like I've said in other posts, I do want to carry on playing this game, I love the concept of it, but the execution of it is incredibly poor, seems like a money spinner for a TV show that isn't even on yet. Hopefully things will improve very soon, but if not, I reckon in 6 months this will be in the Bargain Bin.

Codicakes
04-09-2013, 08:04 PM
yeah bargin bin sounds about right.

GodSpark
04-09-2013, 10:08 PM
We could trade pluses and minuses back and forth on this until the proverbial cows come home. The fact of it is that Trion have spent 5 years to not do it properly. Like I've said in other posts, I do want to carry on playing this game, I love the concept of it, but the execution of it is incredibly poor, seems like a money spinner for a TV show that isn't even on yet. Hopefully things will improve very soon, but if not, I reckon in 6 months this will be in the Bargain Bin.

Your opinion =/= fact.

The fact of it is that you were expecting a traditional MMORPG, and you can't get past the fact that Defiance is not one.

Scorpio989
04-09-2013, 11:04 PM
Go play other Shooter MMOs and find out...

k465
04-09-2013, 11:25 PM
They don't need to scale weapons by much to make people feel better... I mean damn, if a white has 100 dmg, give the green 105, blue 110, purple 115, and orange 120. Or cap orange as a 10% improvement over white, I don't care.. just something to show it is better.

I don't, however, agree with ego scaling. It would break the game.

Snugglebuns
04-09-2013, 11:36 PM
People saying "omg my ego rating 0 purple is better than my ego 1000 purple" is plain ignorant. Damage wise, they are all equal no matter what level. But, the bonuses, mod slots, and nano-effects are better at higher ego's. For instance, a level 100 green has no slots, a level 1000 has full mod slots, synergy effects and nano-effects. So yes, there is progression and saying the game will flop because there is none is plain dumb.

**Edit-

Oh and people haven't gotten anywhere near the level cap so we simply don't know what is up there yet. Also, the 2 massive patches in the upcoming weeks aren't here and the DLC hasn't been revealed so calm down and see what's in store. The game has only been out for 7 days.

Rogue345
04-09-2013, 11:42 PM
They don't need to scale weapons by much to make people feel better... I mean damn, if a white has 100 dmg, give the green 105, blue 110, purple 115, and orange 120. Or cap orange as a 10% improvement over white, I don't care.. just something to show it is better.

I don't, however, agree with ego scaling. It would break the game.

Just so you know it is better you get more mod slots and more effect's then a white gun (like more damage, increased fire rate, less recoil and more damage) I don't know if Ego lvl's increase the effect's but with that + the fact that you increase your skill lvl with guns (there is the progression you want it might not be with gear but it's still there) you do more damage,reload faster...ECT... And do not forget nano effect's....

JMadFour
04-09-2013, 11:46 PM
higher EGO weapons have more slots for modding, as I understand it.

and that is where you get your gear progression. not in the base stats of the weapon.

Tango80
04-09-2013, 11:46 PM
People saying "omg my ego rating 0 purple is better than my ego 1000 purple" is plain ignorant. Damage wise, they are all equal no matter what level. But, the bonuses, mod slots, and nano-effects are better at higher ego's. For instance, a level 100 green has no slots, a level 1000 has full mod slots and nano-effects. So yes, there is progression and saying the game will flop because there is none is plain dumb.

Correct it there just the scale is at a very very low incline up. The incline is so low that it isn't noticeable but it's there. People just don't realize this isn't like wow where a level 10 green is good but this level 10 blue is 2x better.

It's more like this ego level 200 green is good but i prefer the increase mag size on this same ego level blue.
Or i prefer the faster reload speed over the increase Melee damage.

This game is all about the mod slots and the synergy bonuses over the straight up loot drops.

There is one caveat though and that's the grenades and shields as these go up in a low linear grade that is noticeable.

Orge Lambart
04-10-2013, 12:18 AM
I haven't seen any gun have more than 4 mod slots, which using Ark salvage you can get on a Ego 1 or 4000 gun. So a level 1 Purple can be the same as a level 4000 purple. The only difference would be the amount of Ark Salvage you need to spend on getting the remaining mod slots.

Trying to use that as a basis for progression or showing variance in guns is pretty illogical.

boosted gear
04-10-2013, 12:19 AM
Correct it there just the scale is at a very very low incline up. The incline is so low that it isn't noticeable but it's there. People just don't realize this isn't like wow where a level 10 green is good but this level 10 blue is 2x better.

It's more like this ego level 200 green is good but i prefer the increase mag size on this same ego level blue.
Or i prefer the faster reload speed over the increase Melee damage.

This game is all about the mod slots and the synergy bonuses over the straight up loot drops.

There is one caveat though and that's the grenades and shields as these go up in a low linear grade that is noticeable.

Wow people understand the weapon system :) nice post you saved me writing it all out again :p

Snugglebuns
04-10-2013, 12:24 AM
I haven't seen any gun have more than 4 mod slots, which using Ark salvage you can get on a Ego 1 or 4000 gun. So a level 1 Purple can be the same as a level 4000 purple. The only difference would be the amount of Ark Salvage you need to spend on getting the remaining mod slots.

Trying to use that as a basis for progression or showing variance in guns is pretty illogical.
You failed to mention any other part of the gun besides the mod slots. What about the bonus stats that higher EGO weapons carry.

Ex. +1.25 mag size, %15 grenade recharge on kill, synergy bonuses (class specific and others such as assassin, etc..), nano-effects, aaaaannd melee applied nano-effects. So yeah, how is that illogical?

Tango80
04-10-2013, 12:26 AM
I haven't seen any gun have more than 4 mod slots, which using Ark salvage you can get on a Ego 1 or 4000 gun. So a level 1 Purple can be the same as a level 4000 purple. The only difference would be the amount of Ark Salvage you need to spend on getting the remaining mod slots.

Trying to use that as a basis for progression or showing variance in guns is pretty illogical.

Sigh...

Did you even read my post? let me copy and paste for you.


Correct it there just the scale is at a very very low incline up. The incline is so low that it isn't noticeable but it's there. People just don't realize this isn't like wow where a level 10 green is good but this level 10 blue is 2x better.

It's more like this ego level 200 green is good but i prefer the increase mag size on this same ego level blue.
Or i prefer the faster reload speed over the increase Melee damage.

This game is all about the mod slots and the synergy bonuses over the straight up loot drops.

There is one caveat though and that's the grenades and shields as these go up in a low linear grade that is noticeable.

Orge Lambart
04-10-2013, 12:26 AM
Wow people understand the weapon system :) nice post you saved me writing it all out again :p

sorry but no, you have a ego 20 weapon and compare it to an ego 500 weapon of the same class and it has identical stats. Identical with zero variance. The only variance comes from the mods you add, which are the same mods you get from level 1 to level 5000.

If you can't see why people are bothered by this than I really don't know what to say. It would be one thing if the guns had loads of variance.... but they don't. All the weapons are nearly identical to their lower level counterparts. Outside of mod slots, which as I already said, you can buy with Ark Salvage, so that isn't really a benefit at all.

lemieux
04-10-2013, 12:27 AM
Its called mmo for a reason its all about getting better gear for yourself not a orange assault rifle that does the same damage and everything as my white assault rifle this game is going to fail if alot of this isnt fixed.

Yes it is called MMO for a reason. Massive Multiplayer Online.

And that is exactly what this game is. It is not an MPO. Massive Progression Online.

If you want that, go find one and play it. Defiance is a fabulous game that I put tons of time on the beta and tons more time in release. If you do not like it, then don't play it.

Tango80
04-10-2013, 12:27 AM
You failed to mention any other part of the gun besides the mod slots. What about the bonus stats that higher EGO weapons carry.

Ex. +1.25 mag size, %15 grenade recharge on kill, synergy bonuses (class specific and others such as assassin, etc..), nano-effects, aaaaannd melee applied nano-effects. So yeah, how is that illogical?

Thank you snugglebuns I failed to mention the specifics of the bonuses.

xeqtR
04-10-2013, 12:29 AM
If the weapon damage scaled with EGO level, and the mob difficulty scaled with EGO level, all it would do is create problems with the map, grouping, and PvP.

Example: Your Lvl10 Pistol does 100 damage against a lvl10 mob that has 1000 health. 10 shots to kill it. Your Lvl20 Pistol does 200 damage, and the lvl20 mob has 2000 health. 10 shots to kill it. When they both scale, it is the same.

Level scaled gear and mobs only creates the illusion of advancement. With Defiance's system Trion has done away with the rubbish and gotten to the bare bones of MMO gear and gameplay. And in doing so, people can play together anywhere on the map without worrying about low and high levels.

They did it right.


Although i do completely agree with the Ops points about progression... GodSpark is correct. Thumbs up.


Worse case at lest Trion has proven that an MMO is viable on platforms other than PC? ;)

Orge Lambart
04-10-2013, 12:30 AM
Sigh...

Did you even read my post? let me copy and paste for you.

did you read my post, guns have zero variance, a level 1 scattershot gun will have the same stats as a level 2000 scattershot gun. The FMC SAW will have the same stats at level 20 as it'll have at level 2000. The mods are identical at level 1 as they are at level 5000. Zero variance, a level 1 ego player can rock the same guns as a level 5000 ego player.

I haven't seen shields enough to notice them going up. Although I haven't seen a better shield than my Rhino 3 I had for the last 500 ego. Atleast shields seem to have some variance between them. Gun's are nearly identical, outside of the random 4 or 5 boost they have put on them. Malee, Crit, Reload, etc etc etc. Which again come at the lower levels as well.

Snugglebuns
04-10-2013, 12:31 AM
No disrespect Ogre Lambart, but you still aren't noticing anything besides base stats and mod slots, read my posts and then rethink it over.

Orge Lambart
04-10-2013, 12:34 AM
No disrespect Ogre Lambart, but you still aren't noticing anything besides base stats and mod slots, read my posts and then rethink it over.

I mentioned the bonus stats, which come in the same flavor for a level 1 gun as they do for a level 4000 gun. Zero variance between the guns. That just means eventually people will get bored, it's the tired and true method of online games, it's called the law of diminishing returns.

Each time you find the same gun.... (trust me you'll be finding the same gun over and over and over and over again) it loses the effect. Outside of searching for Orange items in a sea of white and green, you have nothing to occupy your time. The mini variance you are trying to claim is non existent. You show me a level 4000 gun that is vastly better or even different than it's level 20 counterpart and I'll give you a dollar.

Snugglebuns
04-10-2013, 12:38 AM
I mentioned the bonus stats, which come in the same flavor for a level 1 gun as they do for a level 4000 gun. Zero variance between the guns. That just means eventually people will get bored, it's the tired and true method of online games, it's called the law of diminishing returns.

Each time you find the same gun.... (trust me you'll be finding the same gun over and over and over and over again) it loses the effect. Outside of searching for Orange items in a sea of white and green, you have nothing to occupy your time. The mini variance you are trying to claim is non existent. You show me a level 4000 gun that is vastly better or even different than it's level 20 counterpart and I'll give you a dollar.
Actually all you mentioned is mod slots. Yes the stats are the same, that's not what changes. What changes as you level up (Im at ego 1035 so I have seen quite a few weapons), is the bonus stats, as I said in my post. So unless you are level 4000+ I want you to show me a level 1 green that is the same as a 4000. Which it isn't, since even at 1000 EGO greens are WAY better than a level one.

Snugglebuns
04-10-2013, 12:41 AM
For a reminder, here is what i posted.

Ex. +1.25 mag size, %15 grenade recharge on kill, synergy bonuses (class specific and others such as assassin, etc..), nano-effects, aaaaannd melee applied nano-effects. So yeah, how is that illogical?

This is what you posted:

I haven't seen any gun have more than 4 mod slots, which using Ark salvage you can get on a Ego 1 or 4000 gun. So a level 1 Purple can be the same as a level 4000 purple. The only difference would be the amount of Ark Salvage you need to spend on getting the remaining mod slots.

Trying to use that as a basis for progression or showing variance in guns is pretty illogical.

Orge Lambart
04-10-2013, 12:43 AM
Actually all you mentioned is mod slots. Yes the stats are the same, that's not what changes. What changes as you level up (Im at ego 1035 so I have seen quite a few weapons), is the bonus stats, as I said in my post. So unless you are level 4000+ I want you to show me a level 1 green that is the same as a 4000. Which it isn't, since even at 1000 EGO greens are WAY better than a level one.

I have level 100 guns that are identical to level 600 guns. I don't know who's funk you are faking but it's pretty funny. The gun is identical outside of the fact that one is ego level 100 and the other is ego level 600. identical, bonus stats, normal stats, mod slots everything is identical. I don't know where you got the koolaid you've been drinking but they are identical.

Tango80
04-10-2013, 12:43 AM
did you read my post, guns have zero variance, a level 1 scattershot gun will have the same stats as a level 2000 scattershot gun. The FMC SAW will have the same stats at level 20 as it'll have at level 2000. The mods are identical at level 1 as they are at level 5000. Zero variance, a level 1 ego player can rock the same guns as a level 5000 ego player.

I haven't seen shields enough to notice them going up. Although I haven't seen a better shield than my Rhino 3 I had for the last 500 ego. Atleast shields seem to have some variance between them. Gun's are nearly identical, outside of the random 4 or 5 boost they have put on them. Malee, Crit, Reload, etc etc etc. Which again come at the lower levels as well.

They are not identical. Try slotting in a burst fire mod into a SAW. How about slotting in a synergy mod into a synergy weapon then tell me that they are identical.

This is on a purple in top notch tool works
Synergy Prepared
1. 1% ammo regeneration every 10 seconds
2. 2% ammo regeneration every 10 seconds
3. 5% damage on next shot after melee kill
4. 10% damage on next shot after melee kill

-.10 recoil
x1.03 fire rate
+200% melee damage after self revive.

Now that's just the gun. Now if you use the mods that have the same synergy you get those bonuses.
Add a mod that lowers your recoil
Or add a mod that makes it burst fire
Do you want more crit or more white alpha damage?
How about better chance for nano effect?
Heck how about adding a nano effect.

Again this isn't an MMORPG it is an MMO but it is also a TPS trying to lump it with the likes of WoW, Rift, Warhammer, Guild Wars, GW2, Any free to play mmo is not doing this game any justice.

Orge Lambart
04-10-2013, 12:44 AM
For a reminder, here is what i posted.

Ex. +1.25 mag size, %15 grenade recharge on kill, synergy bonuses (class specific and others such as assassin, etc..), nano-effects, aaaaannd melee applied nano-effects. So yeah, how is that illogical?

This is what you posted:

I haven't seen any gun have more than 4 mod slots, which using Ark salvage you can get on a Ego 1 or 4000 gun. So a level 1 Purple can be the same as a level 4000 purple. The only difference would be the amount of Ark Salvage you need to spend on getting the remaining mod slots.

Trying to use that as a basis for progression or showing variance in guns is pretty illogical.

all of which are available on level 20 guns as well, depending on how lucky you get with the drop rates.

Snugglebuns
04-10-2013, 12:47 AM
I have level 100 guns that are identical to level 600 guns. I don't know who's funk you are faking but it's pretty funny. The gun is identical outside of the fact that one is ego level 100 and the other is ego level 600. identical, bonus stats, normal stats, mod slots everything is identical. I don't know where you got the koolaid you've been drinking but they are identical.

No need to get offensive. But, clearly you aren't very far into the game so you cannot speak saying a level 1 is the same as a level 4000, or any weapon for that matter. You are only level 600ish (from what you told me.) I am EGO rating 1035 and I can tell you there is a difference, as I previously stated, sir.

Snugglebuns
04-10-2013, 12:49 AM
all of which are available on level 20 guns as well, depending on how lucky you get with the drop rates.

Yes on level 20 epics they do have some bonus attributes. At level 1000, epics of that same fun have even BETTER attributes. I can speak from experience, and you cannot.

Snugglebuns
04-10-2013, 12:49 AM
Meant to say gun, not fun lol. iPhone autocorrect >.<

Orge Lambart
04-10-2013, 12:51 AM
and I'm sure in 3 days when I'm level 1000 I'll be rocking guns with the same stats that I have right now. Like I already said, all the bonuses are available on lower level weapons as well. Keep faking the funk and thinking otherwise. All the crap you can mod into a gun are available at level 1.

It's ok to admit the game has no real progression system in place, nor do weapons get better over time. The only thing that improves is your health (I think) and weapon skills.. It becomes more common to find weapons with additional bonuses I'll agree.

What level do the guns start to magically get better, because like I said, I have level 100 weapons with identical stats including bonus stats as their level 600 brothers. Is it some magic ego number you hit when all these rad stats start to show up that aren't already showing up on the guns I have now?

Snugglebuns
04-10-2013, 12:57 AM
and I'm sure in 3 days when I'm level 1000 I'll be rocking guns with the same stats that I have right now. Like I already said, all the bonuses are available on lower level weapons as well. Keep faking the funk and thinking otherwise. All the crap you can mod into a gun are available at level 1.

It's ok to admit the game has no real progression system in place, nor do weapons get better over time. The only thing that improves is your health (I think) and weapon skills.. It becomes more common to find weapons with additional bonuses I'll agree.

What level do the guns start to magically get better, because like I said, I have level 100 weapons with identical stats including bonus stats as their level 600 brothers. Is it some magic ego number you hit when all these rad stats start to show up that aren't already showing up on the guns I have now?

I think you're missing the point. The guns will always have the same base stats, true. But, the difference with higher EGO rating weapons is (once again), these examples: +1.25 mag size, %15 grenade recharge on kill, synergy bonuses (class specific and others such as assassin, etc..), nano-effects, aaaaannd melee applied nano-effects. Plus things we haven't even seen! That's the difference, not base stats, like damage or fire rate.

Snugglebuns
04-10-2013, 12:58 AM
Also, rocking a level 100 gun at 1000 would prove to not be worth your time since once a weapon is capped, you cannot progress your weapon skill.

Orge Lambart
04-10-2013, 12:59 AM
those stats are on the lower level guns too, Jeez, are you just trying to feign ignorance now? I have personally seen guns with + increased mag sizes, 15% grenade recharge, and everything else you listed..... on lower level guns.... I probably have a few of them in my inventory right now.

Tango80
04-10-2013, 01:02 AM
and I'm sure in 3 days when I'm level 1000 I'll be rocking guns with the same stats that I have right now. Like I already said, all the bonuses are available on lower level weapons as well. Keep faking the funk and thinking otherwise. All the crap you can mod into a gun are available at level 1.

It's ok to admit the game has no real progression system in place, nor do weapons get better over time. The only thing that improves is your health (I think) and weapon skills.. It becomes more common to find weapons with additional bonuses I'll agree.

What level do the guns start to magically get better, because like I said, I have level 100 weapons with identical stats including bonus stats as their level 600 brothers. Is it some magic ego number you hit when all these rad stats start to show up that aren't already showing up on the guns I have now?

What do you want? a gun that does 500 points of damage per shot? Or a AR that does 1k damage per shot?
Your not going to get that ever remember Trion made this game so a person with an EGO rating of 10 can go into a PVP match vs a person with an EGO rating of 5000 and still could kick him to the curb. Or are you looking for a superiority complex that this game will not give you unlike other MMO's?

This game isn't about gear unlike every other MMO's it is about skill. Do you have the skill to take on someone at EGO 5k and your toon is at EGO level 10. But still be able whoop on him like he was a second grader?

Gear isn't the end all be all. However to you it seems that it is. If your looking for weapons that can smash the face of a toddler I would suggest going to the other MMO's out on the market. They tend to get that right with all the power creep setting in.

This game hopefully has little power creep in the future.

Snugglebuns
04-10-2013, 01:03 AM
those stats are on the lower level guns too, Jeez, are you just trying to feign ignorance now? I have personally seen guns with + increased mag sizes, 15% grenade recharge, and everything else you listed..... on lower level guns.... I probably have a few of them in my inventory right now.
Okay let me clarify further. These stats are present on lower level guns, yes. But, are they ALL present? I have a few 900+ and a couple 1000+ epics with ALL of these bonus attributes on one weapon. Not one bonus stat or two, all. Even if the level 100 ones have multiple bonuses, the higher version will always have more.

Snugglebuns
04-10-2013, 01:05 AM
At least most people like myself and Tango80 understand this.

Speshalke
04-10-2013, 01:06 AM
I do like that Defiance isn't just another loot-farming game, and I really appreciate Trion's efforts to keep it skill based. Obviously, if you want the game to remain skill-based, you can't have extreme variance in the actual guns themselves, but as you level up your EGO and you gain access to more and more perks in the awesome "create-your-own-class" EGO grid, as well as levelling up all of your weapons skills and gain access to more rare Orange guns and stuff, your character does become more "advanced" in combat situations.

Having said this, I don't think the current system is perfect, and I know Trion is working day in, day out to fix all the bugs currently in the game on its release (what MMO doesn't have those? ;) ). But, anyway, my current complaint is as follows:

Once a gun hits max level it stops adding to your weapon-type Skill level. I don't like that I have to go find another gun (of any color) once my gun maxes out. I'd rather just switch out my gun when I find a better one, rather than have to downgrade in order to continue adding to my skill level (except more slowly, since I do less damage now). Sure, it's kind of cool to see new weapons, but honestly it's less rewarding to max out a gun's XP than I would have hoped. Sure, I get the extra stats for the gun when I max it out and stuff, but until I reach more of an "endgame" it doesn't really matter, because honestly now it's best for me to just sell my maxed-out guns.

I guess this does sort of in a way turn the game into a loot-farming game once you get to the end game, since then you just need that perfect combination of the right Orange gun with the right orange stats, but doesn't that kind of happen in every game?

Anyway, I guess my complaint is more of just an annoyance that won't keep me from getting to EGO 4000 in the next few weeks, and I'm definitely looking forward to all the content to come!

MetalDeathPunch
04-10-2013, 01:08 AM
Yeah dude like i was telling my brother he said like if you found a orange weapon in WoW people would go nuts but man orange weapons are legendary? i dont think so i hope the fix it too

You don't " find " orange weps in wow. You damn well earn them. Should be the same with defiance hope they fix this

Predator
04-10-2013, 01:09 AM
Defiance is a skill-shooter wiht MMO-components, if you thought it will be WOW with weapons, well it isn`t and TRIOn said it before. Maybe you shoudl do more research before you buy a game and be upset then. If you want a grind-fest where the players with the most time and best rotation are the best then you should stick with an MMORPG not an MMO-Shooter. The weapons donīt evolve much in Defiance (oranges for example are better than greens but just slightly) like in most MMORPGs but the player, his skill and his level (EGO and perks) do!

Tango80
04-10-2013, 01:10 AM
Once a gun hits max level it stops adding to your weapon-type Skill level. I don't like that I have to go find another gun (of any color) once my gun maxes out. I'd rather just switch out my gun when I find a better one, rather than have to downgrade in order to continue adding to my skill level (except more slowly, since I do less damage now). Sure, it's kind of cool to see new weapons, but honestly it's less rewarding to max out a gun's XP than I would have hoped. Sure, I get the extra stats for the gun when I max it out and stuff, but until I reach more of an "endgame" it doesn't really matter, because honestly now it's best for me to just sell my maxed-out guns.

Tell me if you fiddled with the same gun in RL over and over for years and years would you get better with weapons of the same type?

No not really you can get the jist of what they do but you really wouldn't know unless you got familiar with it. However when you learn the in's and out of a particular gun do you learn anything else about it?

Nope so think of it like in real life you get used to a gun but after learning everything about it. It's time to get a new gun and do it all over again.

And if you wanted you can go back to that gun assuming you didn't sell or scrap it. Thats how I look at it.

Snugglebuns
04-10-2013, 01:10 AM
Yes and after some DLC comes out I'm sure you'll see even more variables that play into gun damage and whatnot.

Orge Lambart
04-10-2013, 01:12 AM
What do you want? a gun that does 500 points of damage per shot? Or a AR that does 1k damage per shot?
Your not going to get that ever remember Trion made this game so a person with an EGO rating of 10 can go into a PVP match vs a person with an EGO rating of 5000 and still could kick him to the curb. Or are you looking for a superiority complex that this game will not give you unlike other MMO's?

This game isn't about gear unlike every other MMO's it is about skill. Do you have the skill to take on someone at EGO 5k and your toon is at EGO level 10. But still be able whoop on him like he was a second grader?

Gear isn't the end all be all. However to you it seems that it is. If your looking for weapons that can smash the face of a toddler I would suggest going to the other MMO's out on the market. They tend to get that right with all the power creep setting in.

This game hopefully has little power creep in the future.

I'm just pointing out that you are Snugglebuns are full of malarkey, the gun system is very easy to figure out, and you can have level 20 ego weapons with the same stats as a level 4000 weapon. I can tell you this by making observations of my own personal experiences with the gun system. Level 100 guns with the same exact stats as a level 600 gun. the bonus stats are the same as well. Unless you are talking about your rare exception guns, which again will be the same exact stats just with a different level attached to them.

I already know why the guns are the way they are, I was saying it way back on the first day I started playing the game, that doesn't mean I agree with the system. They should have a two tier PVE and PVP set up. Games that balance PVP in a PVE game wind up ruining the game for everyone.

Also people want change, like I said the law of diminishing returns, when you do the same thing over and over and over again, each time you do the same thing it becomes less and less fun. Getting the same weapons over and over and over again will eventually wear thin. That's why this game should have guns with additional stat increases.

It makes you strive to find the next big gun, it makes the game more interesting. So while you are right, it'll be similar to hitting X mob for Y and killing them in B, then at a higher level hitting X mob for Z and killing in C. The illusion keeps the game feeling fresh and new.

Right now the game is ultra repetitive, you fight the same three mobs, the same three ark falls mixed in with some racing and shooting challenges. Having gun variation even slightly would help break up the law of diminishing returns.

Orge Lambart
04-10-2013, 01:16 AM
Okay let me clarify further. These stats are present on lower level guns, yes. But, are they ALL present? I have a few 900+ and a couple 1000+ epics with ALL of these bonus attributes on one weapon. Not one bonus stat or two, all. Even if the level 100 ones have multiple bonuses, the higher version will always have more.

I can understand what you are saying, but I disagree with you. Again maybe I haven't had the luck to find any of those boss epic guns yet, I just know that if you are basing what you said on the boss epic weapons that's still wrong. Seeing as the drop rate appears to be something like .00001%, so most people outside of paying loads of script for one aren't going to see those boss epic weapons.

Snugglebuns
04-10-2013, 01:16 AM
I'm just pointing out that you are Snugglebuns are full of malarkey, the gun system is very easy to figure out, and you can have level 20 ego weapons with the same stats as a level 4000 weapon. I can tell you this by making observations of my own personal experiences with the gun system. Level 100 guns with the same exact stats as a level 600 gun. the bonus stats are the same as well. Unless you are talking about your rare exception guns, which again will be the same exact stats just with a different level attached to them.

I already know why the guns are the way they are, I was saying it way back on the first day I started playing the game, that doesn't mean I agree with the system. They should have a two tier PVE and PVP set up. Games that balance PVP in a PVE game wind up ruining the game for everyone.

Also people want change, like I said the law of diminishing returns, when you do the same thing over and over and over again, each time you do the same thing it becomes less and less fun. Getting the same weapons over and over and over again will eventually wear thin. That's why this game should have guns with additional stat increases.

It makes you strive to find the next big gun, it makes the game more interesting. So while you are right, it'll be similar to hitting X mob for Y and killing them in B, then at a higher level hitting X mob for Z and killing in C. The illusion keeps the game feeling fresh and new.

Right now the game is ultra repetitive, you fight the same three mobs, the same three ark falls mixed in with some racing and shooting challenges. Having gun variation even slightly would help break up the law of diminishing returns.

I honestly do not know how make this any more clear for you. Guns at low levels do not have the same amount of mod slots, or bonus attributes of ego weapons of let's say, upwards of 1000. Stop using level 4000 as an example since no one has seen one.

Orge Lambart
04-10-2013, 01:18 AM
I honestly do not know how make this any more clear for you. Guns at low levels do not have the same amount of mod slots, or bonus attributes of ego weapons of let's say, upwards of 1000. Stop using level 4000 as an example since no one has seen one.

cool, you mind showing me some of those guns with more than 4 mod slots. If you do than I'll admit I was wrong.

Ultimately I don't really care one way or the other, I'm enjoying the game, I was just saying, I know that in a month or two without something to break up the repetition the game will hit a lull. I love to look at trends and right now in it's current state this game has about 2 months in it before the servers are dead. That is speaking with no knowledge of what will be included with future content updates.

LALLY
04-10-2013, 01:19 AM
If you want to play an MMO that is just a gear grindfest go play an MMO thats a gear grindfest. Trion has said repeatedly that they want the game to be based more on skill then who has the best gear.

if they want the game to be based on skill they need to make it harder, its just so easy at the minute

Snugglebuns
04-10-2013, 01:19 AM
I can understand what you are saying, but I disagree with you. Again maybe I haven't had the luck to find any of those boss epic guns yet, I just know that if you are basing what you said on the boss epic weapons that's still wrong. Seeing as the drop rate appears to be something like .00001%, so most people outside of paying loads of script for one aren't going to see those boss epic weapons.
What do you mean boss epic weapons? Blues even have these bonuses I'm speaking of and If you haven't had any epics then how can you say you know so much?

Snugglebuns
04-10-2013, 01:20 AM
cool, you mind showing me some of those guns with more than 4 mod slots. If you do than I'll admit I was wrong.

Dude, I never said more than 4 mod slots, I give up trying to explain things to you. You just don't seem to want to learn more about the way the guns work at higher levels.

Orge Lambart
04-10-2013, 01:22 AM
Dude, I never said more than 4 mod slots, I give up trying to explain things to you. You just don't seem to want to learn more about the way the guns work at higher levels.

yes you did

"I honestly do not know how make this any more clear for you. Guns at low levels do not have the same amount of mod slots,"

you said point blank, higher level guns don't have the same amount of mod slots. I didn't say it, you did. I assume what you meant was they start off with more mod slots open, but again that isn't a benefit because you can unlock those slots with ark salvage. I guess I just need to wait until I'm level 1000 to see those awesome weapons you say are all over the place.... I'm sure it'll be awesome to finally get some weapons that don't look identical to the weapons I've been getting the last 600 ego levels.

Snugglebuns
04-10-2013, 01:25 AM
yes you did

"I honestly do not know how make this any more clear for you. Guns at low levels do not have the same amount of mod slots,"

you said point blank, higher level guns don't have the same amount of mod slots. I didn't say it, you did.

I see what you did now. You took what I said out of context, that's all. I meant, a level 100 gun (of any rarity), will have maybe 1 or two open mod slots. A level 1000+ gun of any rarity has all 4 mod slots open. I just assumed you knew that after trying to explain to you.

Tango80
04-10-2013, 01:26 AM
yes you did

"I honestly do not know how make this any more clear for you. Guns at low levels do not have the same amount of mod slots,"

you said point blank, higher level guns don't have the same amount of mod slots. I didn't say it, you did. I assume what you meant was they start off with more mod slots open, but again that isn't a benefit because you can unlock those slots with ark salvage. I guess I just need to wait until I'm level 1000 to see those awesome weapons you say are all over the place.... I'm sure it'll be awesome to finally get some weapons that don't look identical to the weapons I've been getting the last 600 ego levels.

Open mod slots is what snugglebuns was referring to. Honestly I don't think you see the forest from the trees.

LALLY
04-10-2013, 01:26 AM
yes you did

"I honestly do not know how make this any more clear for you. Guns at low levels do not have the same amount of mod slots,"

you said point blank, higher level guns don't have the same amount of mod slots. I didn't say it, you did. I assume what you meant was they start off with more mod slots open, but again that isn't a benefit because you can unlock those slots with ark salvage. I guess I just need to wait until I'm level 1000 to see those awesome weapons you say are all over the place.... I'm sure it'll be awesome to finally get some weapons that don't look identical to the weapons I've been getting the last 600 ego levels.

he didn't say they have more than 4 mod slots, he means they have more slots available to mod...right?

GodSpark
04-10-2013, 01:26 AM
Orge Lambart, sorry mate, but you are full of crap.

Do you have an EGO 1000+ character and EGO 1000+ guns? No.

Do you have an EGO 4000 character and EGO 4000 guns? No.

Do you have access to the weapon generation code? No.

Do you even understand how the guns progress? Not really.

Your entire argument is based on partial observation, massive speculation, and exaggeration. In other words, it's crap. The guys you are arguing with HAVE those guns, and HAVE that EGO level.

It's like telling a Physicist they are wrong because you took Algebra in High School. When in reality you have no freakin' clue what you (or they for that matter) are talking about.

Give it up.

Orge Lambart
04-10-2013, 01:27 AM
I see what you did now. You took what I said out of context, that's all. I meant, a level 100 gun (of any rarity), will have maybe 1 or two open mod slots. A level 1000+ gun of any rarity has all 4 mod slots open. I just assumed you knew that after trying to explain to you.

that isn't a benefit because with Ark Salvage I can unlock those 4 slots. Touting that as some major benefit is disingenuous, for like 20k ark salvage I can take a gun with Zero slots and give it 4 slots. I can also pop in the best Mods at Ego level 10....

Orge Lambart
04-10-2013, 01:29 AM
Orge Lambart, sorry mate, but you are full of crap.

Do you have an EGO 4000 character and EGO 4000 guns? No.

Do you have access to the weapon generation code? No.

Do you even understand how the guns progress? Not really.

Your entire argument is based on partial observation, massive speculation, and exaggeration. In other words, it's crap. The guys you are arguing with HAVE those guns, and HAVE that EGO level.

It's like telling a Physicist they are wrong because you took Algebra in High School. When in reality you have no freakin' clue what you (or they for that matter) are talking about.

Give it up.

As you level up you should see variance. Thus far I've seen zero variance. Like I said, what is the magic Ego level where these guns start to become available. The difference between level 600 and level 1000 is about 4 - 6 hours of game play.

Like I already said, I enjoy looking at trends, and thus far the weapons I've seen from level 10 haven't gotten any better in any way shape or form to the weapons I've gotten at level 600. You claim they get better bonuses.... ok cool. So if that is the case, by all means, tell me what magical level number I need to shoot for.

Snugglebuns
04-10-2013, 01:30 AM
that isn't a benefit because with Ark Salvage I can unlock those 4 slots. Touting that as some major benefit is disingenuous, for like 20k ark salvage I can take a gun with Zero slots and give it 4 slots. I can also pop in the best Mods at Ego level 10....

Sure, you can do that with green rarity weapons from level 10. But, at higher levels you don't need to waste your ark salvage to do that. Plus, weapons of higher rarities carry better bonus attributes at higher ego's. Maybe at 4000, greens will even have lots of synergy bonuses, we simply don't know yet.

defiance
04-10-2013, 01:32 AM
You can add mod slots...


i agree the weapon system is so broken. I'm an ego 900+ and i use a gun i found at ego 133. I've yet to find something better. The firestorm from the codes might actually be the best ar in the game too..

Mobs are weak to. Tell me why i can do an arkfall on my own, i shouldn't be able to. Those are supposed to be hordes that should be raided in my opinion.

Tango80
04-10-2013, 01:34 AM
As you level up you should see variance. Thus far I've seen zero variance. Like I said, what is the magic Ego level where these guns start to become available. The difference between level 600 and level 1000 is about 4 - 6 hours of game play.

Like I already said, I enjoy looking at trends, and thus far the weapons I've seen from level 10 haven't gotten any better in any way shape or form to the weapons I've gotten at level 600. You claim they get better bonuses.... ok cool. So if that is the case, by all means, tell me what magical level number I need to shoot for.

The variances on the weapons at levels are very very minimal the slope on gear progression is really low you won't notice it until you start getting into the 1k's. Then you also have the differences between color types too.

Again though it is very minimal and hardly noticeable unless your really looking or know what your looking for.

Orge Lambart
04-10-2013, 01:34 AM
Open mod slots is what snugglebuns was referring to. Honestly I don't think you see the forest from the trees.

not a very strong reader are you fella

"I didn't say it, you did. I assume what you meant was they start off with more mod slots open, but again that isn't a benefit because you can unlock those slots with ark salvage."

There you go, I guess reading isn't your strong suit, it's all good I won't name call like you did. I already said in my post he was probably talking about how many slots were unlocked, which as I pointed out isn't really a benefit, I have over 100k ark salvage just chilling.

Tango80
04-10-2013, 01:35 AM
You can add mod slots...


i agree the weapon system is so broken. I'm an ego 900+ and i use a gun i found at ego 133. I've yet to find something better. The firestorm from the codes might actually be the best ar in the game too..

I hope your swapping out weapons of similar types because if you aren't your gimping yourself.

Orge Lambart
04-10-2013, 01:40 AM
it's pretty funny that I point out the weapon system has no variance and people are so quick to defend it, reminds me of those Day Z fanboys that get all bent out of shape that someone thinks War Z is an alright game.

It's ok fellas, people can have differences of opinions, no need to flash your e-peens, I'm not flashing my 110000 gamer score or anything... BTW in 3 weeks we'll all be level 5000 ego and you'll need to find some other way to try to make yourself look superior, I gather by then you'll be onto the next thing... ADHD can be really nasty I heard.

Snugglebuns
04-10-2013, 01:40 AM
Look man,
Whites and Greens generally have the same stats no matter what level, but the open mod slots change and at 1000+ all slots are open. Blues, Purples, and Oranges have better attributes (not base stats) at higher ego ratings.

That's what I'm getting at. See the confusion?

Orge Lambart
04-10-2013, 01:41 AM
Look man,
Whites and Greens generally have the same stats no matter what level, but the open mod slots change and at 1000+ all slots are open. Blues, Purples, and Oranges have better attributes (not base stats) at higher ego ratings.

That's what I'm getting at. See the confusion?

The open mod slots are worthless, why you continue to bring it up to further your point has me scratching my head. So you save yourself 10k ark salvage by having mod slots already open.... ok.... I can save money on my car insurance with Geiko, but ultimately it changes nothing when you are talking about variances in the guns for this game.

Ark Salvage is so easy to attain, like I already said I have about 100k ark salvage right now.

Tango80
04-10-2013, 01:42 AM
not a very strong reader are you fella

"I didn't say it, you did. I assume what you meant was they start off with more mod slots open, but again that isn't a benefit because you can unlock those slots with ark salvage."

There you go, I guess reading isn't your strong suit, it's all good I won't name call like you did. I already said in my post he was probably talking about how many slots were unlocked, which as I pointed out isn't really a benefit, I have over 100k ark salvage just chilling.


Really and when did I say that the guns have more mod slots than the 4?
I said the game is all about the mod slots and synergy.

Mod slots as in i can make the gun the way i want it.
and
Synergy Cool if i add a mod that has the same Synergy to this gun that has this synergy i get this bonus.

Again go back and read what I posted before insulting me.

Orge Lambart
04-10-2013, 01:45 AM
Really and when did I say that the guns have more mod slots than the 4?
I said the game is all about the mod slots and synergy.

Mod slots as in i can make the gun the way i want it.
and
Synergy Cool if i add a mod that has the same Synergy to this gun that has this synergy i get this bonus.

Again go back and read what I posted before insulting me.

There are millions of stars, circling millions of moons, that are circling millions of planets in millions of galaxies, that all revolve around just one point in the universe.... That point is not you!"

Again with the failure to read and comprehend someone's post. I never said you personally said guns have more than 4 mod slots, I said Snugglebuns did, unless you are in fact the same person and you forgot to switch accounts or something.... lol that would be pretty funny if true... come to think of it, this is the internet, odds are you are both the same person..

Snugglebuns
04-10-2013, 01:46 AM
The open mod slots are worthless, why you continue to bring it up to further your point has me scratching my head. So you save yourself 10k ark salvage by having mod slots already open.... ok.... I can save money on my car insurance with Geiko, but ultimately it changes nothing when you are talking about variances in the guns.

Why you still don't understand has me scratching my head. The whites and greens are with extra mod slot are useless like you said. But what you don't understand is that for the higher rarities, mod slots aren't the main attraction. What I have been trying to tell you is that at higher ego ratings they have more and a higher amount of attributes compared to their lower ego rating counterparts.

Tango80
04-10-2013, 01:46 AM
There are millions of stars, circling millions of moons, that are circling millions of planets in millions of galaxies, that all revolve around just one point in the universe.... That point is not you!"

Again with the failure to read and comprehend someone's post. I never said you personally said guns have more than 4 mod slots, I said Snugglebuns did, unless you are in fact the same person and you forgot to switch accounts or something.... lol that would be pretty funny if true... come to think of it, this is the internet, odds are you are both the same person..

And i was pointing out that snugglebuns meant open mod slots.

Snugglebuns
04-10-2013, 01:47 AM
There are millions of stars, circling millions of moons, that are circling millions of planets in millions of galaxies, that all revolve around just one point in the universe.... That point is not you!"

Again with the failure to read and comprehend someone's post. I never said you personally said guns have more than 4 mod slots, I said Snugglebuns did, unless you are in fact the same person and you forgot to switch accounts or something.... lol that would be pretty funny if true... come to think of it, this is the internet, odds are you are both the same person..

I think you lost sight of what we were discussing. Now you are just throwing out insults? Well played.

GodSpark
04-10-2013, 01:48 AM
The open mod slots are worthless, why you continue to bring it up to further your point has me scratching my head. So you save yourself 10k ark salvage by having mod slots already open.... ok.... I can save money on my car insurance with Geiko, but ultimately it changes nothing when you are talking about variances in the guns for this game.

Ark Salvage is so easy to attain, like I already said I have about 100k ark salvage right now.

He is listing ALL of the changes you dense little boulder you. The open mods slots ARE a change, so he keeps mentioning them in the list. But, since you can only seem to focus on the Mod slots, let's discuss them.

Can you add your own slots? Sure. But I'd rather save my salvage for keycodes, or mod/weapon recovery. The open slots aren't a big bonus, but they are a bonus none the less. Also, Purps and Oranges tend to cost roughly 20,000-50,000 to fully mod.

Snugglebuns
04-10-2013, 01:49 AM
Thank you Tango and God Spark, I'm glad you and most of the community understand this.

Orge Lambart
04-10-2013, 01:50 AM
And i was pointing out that snugglebuns meant open mod slots.

that has nothing to do with the conversation at this point in time, seems you are just deflecting away from the fact that you made an error when you read my post... You attempted to insult me and you failed at it pretty hard considering what you were pointing out about my post, I had already said in my post.

Here goes another epic fail, not nearly as epic as that post from you but still good


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5k8dEawgm1g

GodSpark
04-10-2013, 01:53 AM
that has nothing to do with the conversation at this point in time, seems you are just deflecting away from the fact that you made an error when you read my post... You attempted to insult me and you failed at it pretty hard considering what you were pointing out about my post, I had already said in my post.

Here goes another epic fail, not nearly as epic as that post from you but still good



I'm not so sure that he is the one deflecting...

In case you haven't noticed, you are the one who is constantly bringing that up when new stuff has been posted.

Snugglebuns
04-10-2013, 01:54 AM
that has nothing to do with the conversation at this point in time, seems you are just deflecting away from the fact that you made an error when you read my post... You attempted to insult me and you failed at it pretty hard considering what you were pointing out about my post, I had already said in my post.

Here goes another epic fail, not nearly as epic as that post from you but still good


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5k8dEawgm1g
You don't see the irony? You are deflecting. Now you're just spouting nonsense.

Orge Lambart
04-10-2013, 01:56 AM
he just posted that in his last post, about the post from a few pages ago. So obviously keep up fellas. I could care less in all honesty about the gun variation, I was just looking to have a little fun, thanks a lot for providing it guys.

Snugglebuns
04-10-2013, 02:04 AM
he just posted that in his last post, about the post from a few pages ago. So obviously keep up fellas. I could care less in all honesty about the gun variation, I was just looking to have a little fun, thanks a lot for providing it guys.

Lol @ you will suffice.

Tango80
04-10-2013, 02:06 AM
Lol @ you will suffice.
Yea I started to smell the trolling in the thread. Well played Orge Well played.

CharmCitysKing
04-10-2013, 02:07 AM
Re-scaling everything is better than the game dying because there is no sense of progression, and there is no reason to do anything else. The game lacks a decent story, the pvp is nothing to play a game for as it's done better in tons of other games if that's all your looking for. i mean, the game just doesn't have anything it excels in.

It's a decent game, and it's fun for a bit, but there is no progression which is what drives people to Play MMO's. There is no drive.

I know. Thats why i say this game wont last 6 months

GodSpark
04-10-2013, 02:10 AM
he just posted that in his last post, about the post from a few pages ago. So obviously keep up fellas. I could care less in all honesty about the gun variation, I was just looking to have a little fun, thanks a lot for providing it guys.

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130213005641/fallout/images/d/dd/Oh-you-93067263235.jpeg

Snugglebuns
04-10-2013, 02:11 AM
I know. Thats why i say this game wont last 6 months

Wow, you can see that after the game has only been out for a week and none of the content additions are released? I'll see you when the game is still going strong after 6 months.

LALLY
04-10-2013, 02:13 AM
do u think they will do a 5th mod slot dlc?

GodSpark
04-10-2013, 02:15 AM
do u think they will do a 5th mod slot dlc?

Maybe a mod slot that adds a mod slot. Mod-ception!

Snugglebuns
04-10-2013, 02:16 AM
Who knows man, maybe? Once the two major patches and the dlc starts rolling out I'm sure we will have more than enough things to keep us occupied. People are just jumping to conclusions like typical human beings.

Snugglebuns
04-10-2013, 02:16 AM
Maybe a mod slot that adds a mod slot. Mod-ception!
Lmao! Yes!

LALLY
04-10-2013, 02:17 AM
Who knows man, maybe? Once the two major patches and the dlc starts rolling out I'm sure we will have more than enough things to keep us occupied. People are just jumping to conclusions like typical human beings.

lol i was joking by the way

Snugglebuns
04-10-2013, 02:19 AM
lol i was joking by the way

I know, it's 2:18 am here and I'm past tired, I realize how serious my text looks rofl :D

Orge Lambart
04-10-2013, 02:20 AM
this is what I was really doing while posting here, now that i'm done, back to playing Defiance.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym0hZG-zNOk

LALLY
04-10-2013, 02:21 AM
this is what I was really doing while posting here, now that i'm done, back to playing Defiance.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym0hZG-zNOk

u should have quit when it was funny orge

Snugglebuns
04-10-2013, 02:21 AM
this is what I was really doing while posting here, now that i'm done, back to playing Defiance.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym0hZG-zNOk

Lol mhmm. ;)

Orge Lambart
04-10-2013, 02:22 AM
if even a single person laughs my job is complete, not to mention you can't go wrong with a good Michael Jackson video. I would post a video of Michael Jackson after he turned white to show why variance is a good thing but I'll just let you use your imagination.

Snugglebuns
04-10-2013, 02:22 AM
u should have quit when it was funny orge

Agreed. You have yet to master the art of trolling.

LALLY
04-10-2013, 02:24 AM
if even a single person laughs my job is complete, not to mention you can't go wrong with a good Michael Jackson video. I would post a video of Michael Jackson after he turned white to show why variance is a good thing but I'll just let you use your imagination.

know when to quit man seriously lol

Tango80
04-10-2013, 02:25 AM
Agreed. You have yet to master the art of trolling.
He did good he got three of us that's something to be proud of I guess.

LALLY
04-10-2013, 02:26 AM
He did good he got three of us that's something to be proud of I guess.

lol nah he didn't, he just pretended it was a troll once he realised he was loosing his argument

Snugglebuns
04-10-2013, 02:27 AM
He did good he got three of us that's something to be proud of I guess.

He didn't even realize he was trolling until someone mentioned trolling lol.

Snugglebuns
04-10-2013, 02:27 AM
lol nah he didn't, he just pretended it was a troll once he realised he was loosing his argument

^ that lol

Ichidakiller
04-10-2013, 02:27 AM
They did this for a reason, in addition the the above posted reasons about pvp and getting rude of the false sense of scaling hey look I hit like a truck but the mobs health has scaled so in reality im still doing the same %of damage.

The game can have a constant influx of new people no need to wait for the next expansion so you can get into the game because of the massive normalization that happens during most expansions. You know what im talking about, hey you just spent the last months grinding out gear but hey this quest you stumbled across has a reward for it that beats anything you have basicly negating the last 5minths ya spent.

With that influx of new people they can jump in and be just as competitive as the guy who has 5000ego. With them they bring in new money cause they want a cool armor look off the marketplace. It doesn't have that elitist attitude that comes with a gear progression game.

The higher the ego, the rarer the weapon=more slots pre installed synergy bonus and at that point usually a high weapon class skip level and with it the innate bonuses that come along with it. For the people who say "If been using the same weapon since i started because i haven't found an upgrade yet. Maybe the reason you dont see an increase in damage is your ar skill is stuck at lvl 3. Just a thought.

Another reason weapons dont increase is so you dont form an attachment to them and can dispose of them at will so you can....wait for it..... LEVEL YOU WEAPON SKILL! Hey used this its maxed out dont worry got a replacement salvage it and keep on killing. When i was a kid we called them throw away something ya use till its served it purpose and ya chuck it away.

Plus anyone seen a lvl 4000 weapon yet? Or a 5000 one.
Here a question since level and quality make it so a weapon come prepackaged with slots and synergy bonuses and around 1000-1500 ego we are seeing weapons with all 4 slots and 4synergy bonuses..... What's comes next ...i dont know maybe a slight dos increase. Better recoil. Better fall off. Who knows. Won't know till someone hits 4000+ to find out what's truely in this game.

We can wait for someone to data mine the filed and see what the level 5000 ego weapons actually have going for them. Not one of us is truely "endgame" yet. When there is few 100 5000 ego player and we start hearing about those weapons. Might want to hold off on this the sky is falling because i have an ego of 700 and my weapon isn't much better then the first one i found. (glossing over the prepackaged bonuses that weapon has over the first one ya spend 30k resources to upgrade for all 4 slots.

I haven't seen any purple or orange mods yet either. So who knows a legendary mods just might make that gun phenomenal when compared to a level 100ego one.

To early to complain about scaling because none of us have truely seen what's in there.

Sneaktastic
04-10-2013, 02:32 AM
dude you hit it right on the nose i 100 percent agree with you. Honestly they messed up a little bit not following what guild wars 2 did with the quest system but...trion could make this game sooooooo much better if they made some tweaks to the weapon system and or outfits whatever so people could actually have a drive to do something besides beat the story and be done

Orge Lambart
04-10-2013, 02:34 AM
lol as if I was losing an argument, I'm still waiting for you to prove to me that high level weapons are better in any way than lower level weapons... you can't do that... Trolling, not trolling, it doesn't matter because you didn't win anything. Unless you call making confusing statements as winning your argument. Just remember it wasn't me who said you can have more than 4 mod slots on a weapon... that was all you buddy.


Also I didn't troll 3 people, it was only 2, Snuggle and Tango are the same person...

Like I said, the law of diminishing returns, if you really think this game will survive the test of time with zero variance you are just fooling yourself. Once the novelty of newness wears off, you are left with an MMO that is void of stuff to do, has the same enemies to fight over and over again, unfun challenges, and a very broken PVP set up.

I mean in all honesty, what is their to keep a player coming back once he beats the main quest. It's not like you can roll an alt, you do the same stuff on the alternate character, it's not even like you can find new and exciting weapons, because they are all the same.... lol.

OH look another major arkfall.... I wonder what this one is... oh wait, it's the same one I've done 30 times already.

Rodney
04-10-2013, 02:43 AM
For a reminder, here is what i posted.

Ex. +1.25 mag size, %15 grenade recharge on kill, synergy bonuses (class specific and others such as assassin, etc..), nano-effects, aaaaannd melee applied nano-effects. So yeah, how is that illogical?

This is what you posted:

I haven't seen any gun have more than 4 mod slots, which using Ark salvage you can get on a Ego 1 or 4000 gun. So a level 1 Purple can be the same as a level 4000 purple. The only difference would be the amount of Ark Salvage you need to spend on getting the remaining mod slots.

Trying to use that as a basis for progression or showing variance in guns is pretty illogical.

The problem with those synergy bonus' is that THEY ARE RANDOM! and really make no real difference.

I can understand what the others are saying about wanting to see a difference in the over all stats of a weapon depending on it's color grade.
Personally I would like to see stat differences between a blue and a orange and each class in between. I'm not saying the damage needs to be raised but at least let each color class has some stat differences like a green can hold a bit more ammo and a blue can hold more ammo and it's fire rate is a bit faster. and a Purple could have all the above plus better bloom.

see what i mean? it's not a HUGE difference but it is noticeable enough to validate the weapon rarity system to the average player and add more interest in paying attention to what they have instead of slapping slots on any ole weapon and modding it.

People like to be able to choose what weapon they use (or trade for) on a noticeable level and not with hidden stats you can get IF you happen to be able to collect all the needed mods WITH the correct synergy rating to enable them in the HOPES it makes a difference that is worth it's trouble to do in the first place.

On another note: I have noticed that some of the stats that where on weapons in the BETA just can't seem to be found in the retail version.
EX: I had a SMG that had a weapon damage of 220x3 and it made a difference because each bullet did 220x3 or 660. That same weapon also had bullets that EXPLODED on contact that did extra damage (or it seemed that way because i could get explosion dmg on the shielded guys) what happened to those stats? Has any one found one yet that wasn't on a shotgun?

Rodney
04-10-2013, 02:58 AM
I think you're missing the point. The guns will always have the same base stats, true. But, the difference with higher EGO rating weapons is (once again), these examples: +1.25 mag size, %15 grenade recharge on kill, synergy bonuses (class specific and others such as assassin, etc..), nano-effects, aaaaannd melee applied nano-effects. Plus things we haven't even seen! That's the difference, not base stats, like damage or fire rate.

That's all well and good BUT what people are ticked off about is the differences between a level 100 green and a level 100 purple that helps make choosing a real difference between them and not subtle differences that really make no difference at all.
But instead what we are getting is just the exact same thing. Even the random bonus stat like +0.10% chance nano effect will happen can be found on both the level 100 blue and purple weapons so having a color coded rarity system just makes no sence at all and does need to be fixed or just removed...

JammyThumbs
04-10-2013, 03:01 AM
I must admit i was very defensive of this game and how its cool that you can compete with high level guys but I have lost intrest in the loot. I used to love old rpgs when collecting an item and the stats were a few points higher would mean a replacing your current setup. The best AR I have come across was from an episiode mission!

Its not an enjoyable experience scrolling through your inventory and everything is to similar. I picked up a purple pyro granade at the start of the game and it still has better stats 400 levels later!

The most off putting experience to date was a trade I made with a level 1000+ player and the item we swapped, my lower level had more or less equal stats.

i'm guessing this game ia all about the mods and maybe collecting them is the way to go? Overall a very fun game but at the present really feels as the progression system is next to non-exsistent. Such a shame as I love the whole collecting concept

Rodney
04-10-2013, 03:10 AM
Tell me if you fiddled with the same gun in RL over and over for years and years would you get better with weapons of the same type?

No not really you can get the jist of what they do but you really wouldn't know unless you got familiar with it. However when you learn the in's and out of a particular gun do you learn anything else about it?

Nope so think of it like in real life you get used to a gun but after learning everything about it. It's time to get a new gun and do it all over again.

And if you wanted you can go back to that gun assuming you didn't sell or scrap it. Thats how I look at it.

You never have owned a real gun have you?
Yes you do get better at it after years of shooting a REAL GUN. (practice makes perfect you know)
Even if you do get really good with 1 type of a REAL GUN a true gun person does not get rid of it. they just buy another and enjoy shooting both.

Now for the last big hole in your argument, THIS IS NOT REAL LIFE! It is a game, and as a game it should entertain and give a sense of accomplishment and satisfaction when you do find an "epic" quality weapon and not be the same thing as it's same level counterpart.

THAT is what this thread is really about. just having a small stat boost to the reload time or fire rate would help players feel they really found a better weapon that feeling "oh look i found a orange colored named weapon... now i have all the different colored guns of that type... yay?)

CharmCitysKing
04-10-2013, 03:29 AM
Wow, you can see that after the game has only been out for a week and none of the content additions are released? I'll see you when the game is still going strong after 6 months.

I really hope so dude...I really do hope! im not even gona buy any DLC untill the first one is released so that way ill know if its worth it or not. Im praying that it will be worth it tho

Jafo
04-10-2013, 03:47 AM
It might help if side missions at ego 500 didn't still give out level 1 mods. Very slowly starting to see 2, and 3s..but its mostly still Ones. And its annoying.

Also, drop rates on Infectors, BMGs and shottys need to be toned down. Every co-op run it seems I pick up at least three of each. and next, the faction merchants need a serious upgrade. Rep 50 assault rifle does..40 damage. Really?? I can only hope they get better at higher rep, but I doubt it.

Valon
04-10-2013, 05:13 AM
Im still running around with a lvl 89 Shotgun, And I am Level 412 I believe?

Tango80
04-10-2013, 06:46 AM
You never have owned a real gun have you?
Yes you do get better at it after years of shooting a REAL GUN. (practice makes perfect you know)
Even if you do get really good with 1 type of a REAL GUN a true gun person does not get rid of it. they just buy another and enjoy shooting both.

Now for the last big hole in your argument, THIS IS NOT REAL LIFE! It is a game, and as a game it should entertain and give a sense of accomplishment and satisfaction when you do find an "epic" quality weapon and not be the same thing as it's same level counterpart.

THAT is what this thread is really about. just having a small stat boost to the reload time or fire rate would help players feel they really found a better weapon that feeling "oh look i found a orange colored named weapon... now i have all the different colored guns of that type... yay?)

Yes i do have a Real guns and yes i know how to use them. But you are missing my point. First off Using, Cleaning and handling One gun compared to another gun are completely different in how both guns handle.

When you use a 1906 Springfield vs a Mosin Nagant the handling characteristics are different. Similar but not really the same. And you failed to realize that is what i have posted.

When you get familiar with a gun you know the in's and out of that particular gun that however doesn't make you a savant on another gun. You know how to use it but that doesn't make you a marksman with it. Unlike your other gun which you have time and practice invested into it. The Experience system is there to show you that as much as you want to learn the skill for a particular weapon type you aren't going to learn anything more from the same weapon you have been using switch to a weapon of a similar type.

So don't try to tell me what it is like. I own quite a few guns each and every gun has it quirks and small subtleties. Handling each gun is different Similar but not the same. Same as in the game the guns are similar but not really the same.

Oh and let me Highlight part of my post that you didn't comprehend correctly.


Tell me if you fiddled with the same gun in RL over and over for years and years would you get better with weapons of the same type?

No not really you can get the jist of what they do but you really wouldn't know unless you got familiar with it. However when you learn the in's and out of a particular gun do you learn anything else about it?

Nope so think of it like in real life you get used to a gun but after learning everything about it. It's time to get a new gun and do it all over again.

And if you wanted you can go back to that gun assuming you didn't sell or scrap it. Thats how I look at it.

Same gun yes. Guns of a similar type not so much.

Dodece
04-10-2013, 07:06 AM
Unfortunately personal accomplishment is critical for these types of games. You remove that from the equation, and what you have is a single player game. That like most single player games quickly runs its coarse. Some might argue that this game is really a multiplayer game, and that it will have the longevity of a Call of Duty, or a Halo title, but that simply isn't the case. Those games are technically superior shooters. In other words they take a whole lot more skill to play, and as such the learning curve is much longer.

You can forget about the bargain bin when it comes to this title. This game is going to be barren in as little as a few months. As far as this genre is concerned this game doesn't have enough story driven content. The leveling is painfully soft, and the combat mechanics have a really short learning curve. You really aren't going to get that much better at playing this game.

What we have is a unfair balancing system that makes the effort unrewarding, and that is a serious problem. I know some want to dismiss this gripe. As this isn't the game for certain types of people, but guess what this gripe is pertinent to most of the players in the game. They want the real sense of accomplishment that comes from putting in the effort. If they don't find that soon. They will actually leave, and we are talking about most of the player base.

So you can blindly defend this developer all you want, but things must simply change. Otherwise you aren't going to find any other players to play the game with in a couple months time. A few extra story missions every week isn't going to hold this thing together. This game needs a real loot end game.

Snugglebuns
04-10-2013, 10:43 AM
I guess what the people who are upset with the way weapons are just want an increase in base stats, which is understandable. I agree, it could use a tweak.

But, the fact remains no one is at or even remotely near the level cap yet. Maybe we should wait and see what level 5000 weapons hold in store before you all throw a fit over level 1-1,000 weapons?

Snugglebuns
04-10-2013, 10:47 AM
lol as if I was losing an argument, I'm still waiting for you to prove to me that high level weapons are better in any way than lower level weapons... you can't do that... Trolling, not trolling, it doesn't matter because you didn't win anything. Unless you call making confusing statements as winning your argument. Just remember it wasn't me who said you can have more than 4 mod slots on a weapon... that was all you buddy.


Also I didn't troll 3 people, it was only 2, Snuggle and Tango are the same person...

Like I said, the law of diminishing returns, if you really think this game will survive the test of time with zero variance you are just fooling yourself. Once the novelty of newness wears off, you are left with an MMO that is void of stuff to do, has the same enemies to fight over and over again, unfun challenges, and a very broken PVP set up.

I mean in all honesty, what is their to keep a player coming back once he beats the main quest. It's not like you can roll an alt, you do the same stuff on the alternate character, it's not even like you can find new and exciting weapons, because they are all the same.... lol.

OH look another major arkfall.... I wonder what this one is... oh wait, it's the same one I've done 30 times already.

Oh and you. You really are a terrible troll. You are indeed entertaining, but annoying. Petty insults to help your case is getting you no where. If you could read and comprehend what's in front of you and not twist the words of others to make you seem valid, the. You migh have a chance. Just stop lmao.

Snugglebuns
04-10-2013, 10:52 AM
If someone could post a picture of a low level (1-300) epic or blue so I can find a high level equivalent and present that to this troll so he doesn't have to strain himself any further, it would be much appreciated.

Orge Lambart
04-10-2013, 11:50 AM
lol this guy is pretty funny, like I already said, you can find a gun that has a few marginally better bonus stats, (only because I think as you get higher level, the bonus stats are probably more likely to show up)

The guns are identical stats, mods, everything are identical, even those bonuses stats you are going on about, someone posted they were selling a level 20 orange sub machine gun, which had 4 bonus stats on it.... LOL hilarious you think these can only show up at higher levels.

I can go to a faction vendor right now at level 600 and buy purple guns with 4 bonus stats just chilling on them. I could go to that same faction vendor at level 20 and buy those same guns with the same stats.

As for nobody being level 4000 yet, the point is looking at trends, if guns get zero increase from level 10 - 600, why should I assume from level 600 - 4000 they'll increase at all. You can try to tout home how awesome the system is because it tosses in 4 different bonuses and they may or may not increase (which they do, but it's based on the quality of the gun, not the level of the gun) I guess when my e-peen reaches 1000, I'll be able to come back here and LOL @ you.

Odds are you'll have moved on by then, because no reason exist to roll an alt, no reason exist to replay the story again, no reason exist to do anything outside of get all the achievements then roll out.

AllDay
04-12-2013, 06:28 AM
I really like this game but im losing interest, the lack of gear difference is strange, I mean why have rare and common weapons if there is no real difference between the 2? When I get better gear I want it to be better not the same thing with a different color name, and mods just don't make that much difference. I've been waiting for a console MMO and this is a good start, when the patch is released hopefully will be a major improvement.

AbleAmazing
04-12-2013, 07:15 AM
The weapon system doesn't bother me. Proficiency leveling and the salvage matrix creates enough progression in my experience to satisfy me.

SuPeR X AnGeR
04-12-2013, 07:28 AM
You know, Trion says this game is a TPS first, and an MMO second... I'm sure players wouldn't be happy on GoW if someone has a super-Lancer or a auto-boomshot or something

Major Nelson
04-12-2013, 07:55 AM
Ok so you start off your game and you get a assault rifle for instance 300 levels later you get the same assault rifle the exact same stats but like its more rare in its color. I have a white gun that is the same stats as a blue gun and its like 200+ levels in the difference so can someone care to explain what the hell Trion was thinking when this weapon system was created if its staying like this or if its getting fixed.

definately needs to scale with level and get better with color and level combo as well as with shields and nades but on that point enemies need to scale to player level too (many people from community say that the game should have region based enemy/loot scaling which i totally agree with)

Major Nelson
04-12-2013, 07:55 AM
The weapon system doesn't bother me. Proficiency leveling and the salvage matrix creates enough progression in my experience to satisfy me.

this isnt even close to gears...

SuPeR X AnGeR
04-12-2013, 08:12 AM
this isnt even close to gears...

Even if you chose the wrong quote, i'll speak and say i only referred to Gears because it is probably the most popular TPS out there, and funnily enough, it has PvP with all players having access to the same weapons

Delta Echo
04-12-2013, 08:31 AM
this isnt even close to gears...

Actually, after playing one round of Shadow Wars it felt a lot like Gears mixed with MAG.

People rolling around, jumping up and down while taking no damage. Exactly like Gears (Wall Humping) and MAG (Just laggy, awful gameplay).

Co-OP is nice, but PVP is terrible.