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View Full Version : No one has an issue with Blur + Infector use? Probably the most easy PvPing ever.



RobbyReiter
04-10-2013, 07:55 AM
Most of the complaints I see here are about how OP Cloak + Shotgun is, and while I don't agree (Blur + Shotgun is even more powerful IMHO), I don't really bother posting about it.

What I find ridiculously easy is Blur + Infector use. The homing aspect of these buggers + the speed and duration of Blur (made even more ridiculous by the perks around it) is absurdly OP. Switching from Overcharge + LMG to Blur + Infector (and Shotgun ofc), I am finding PvP to be too easy.

Honestly the Infector + Blur = the very definition of nooby spray and pray while running/jumping all over the place. I am very hard to kill/stop, and randomly firing ANYWHERE gets me kills.... My only bane is the BMG, and that's where the shotty comes in. Blur + shot in the face while you try to heal...

I don't know of a way to fix it since Blur is all about speed and the Infector is all about the homing/swarming.

What I think make this build even worse is it's interaction with cloaked people. I saw my bugs attack and kill cloaked targets on more than one occasion. Their aggro also shows me exactly where to shoot :o

greatdividers
04-10-2013, 08:12 AM
infector dps is pretty mediocre and the range is as well. this combo is really only a counter/problem for cloak-gunners. leave it as is plox

Aeekto
04-10-2013, 08:34 AM
Blur ist just as easy to counter as cloak, people just need to dig deeper into some gamemechanics.
counter for blur:
-biogrenade
-sludge rocketlauncher
-VOT Spanner Trapper (BMG)
-every weapon with a biohazard nano effect (especially weapons with high ROF or wide spread for higher chance to hit the bluring enemy and trigger it)

and very important
-teamplay (like one uses the spanner trapper while another one burst him to death... for example with a sniper)

DC Zero
04-10-2013, 08:34 AM
I just started using this build last night. Yeah it is pretty easy to use but so is cloak and shotgun. I dont think it's overpowered though. Like the person above me said, infector damage is decent but if your out of its range, it won't do any damage at all. It can be countered by longer range weapons, and your not going to be sneaking up on anyone like cloak users.

I'm just glad the meta is shifting and more viable builds are coming out. Soon you will have a build that completely counters blur + infectors and we will start having some pretty diverse pvp instead of 90% of people using the same build.

RobbyReiter
04-10-2013, 09:05 AM
Blur ist just as easy to counter as cloak, people just need to dig deeper into some gamemechanics.
counter for blur:
-biogrenade
-sludge rocketlauncher
-VOT Spanner Trapper (BMG)
-every weapon with a biohazard nano effect (especially weapons with high ROF or wide spread for higher chance to hit the bluring enemy and trigger it)

and very important
-teamplay (like one uses the spanner trapper while another one burst him to death... for example with a sniper)

Rolling twice clears those effects though (not a problem with all the extra speed you get) and the homing aspect + dot + reveal makes the low damage a non issue. After all your Shotgun + Blur + Melee dmg synergy + mod make killing whatever gets close very easy.

Lexinator
04-10-2013, 09:44 AM
@ RobbyReiter - If you don't mind me asking, where did you find out about this build and when? Just trying to see if it's my fault lol.

RobbyReiter
04-10-2013, 10:03 AM
@ RobbyReiter - If you don't mind me asking, where did you find out about this build and when? Just trying to see if it's my fault lol.

Roflmao. Yeah it is. I am a Steam lurker and found the build in your guide (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=136738681#) like 5-6 days ago and got all the perks too.

Told a few friends to go there the next day but you already removed it! You may as well put your perk selection back in now since PvP is crawling with this build, and you have some great perk choices to compliment the play style.

Escalith
04-10-2013, 10:10 AM
Well. Cloak-Shotgunners are the most present. I've had games where 90% of the players in the game were using this combo.

Cloak+Infector is just as strong, as well as Blur +Shotgun or +Infector. And some people even add BMG's ontop of that.

Currently, the strongest combinations are of the following:

Blur / Cloak
Infector / Shotgun / BMG


But Infectors are more difficult to use effectively, although not by much. So is Blur.

mimneotic
04-10-2013, 10:18 AM
I've been doing this since the release of the game. Funny to finally see a thread pop up about it.

The only way to hard counter it is to slow the blur-user down somehow. Or just insta-gib them. One or the other. The latter is a counter to most things, though! huhu.

MosesOfWar
04-10-2013, 10:31 AM
Overcharge with an autosniper, LMG, AR or Shotgun, along with a Biogrenade. Biogrenade in the blur's path and overcharge shoot away while they are rolling around. Overcharge with a pump shotgun works as well, especially a burst fire pump shotty, then turning Overcharge on for the reload. Overcharge gives the Advantage over blur, especially when Bio-Nanos are thrown in as Aeekto mentioned.

Letho
04-10-2013, 10:33 AM
One day they will put a patch that will increase the bullet's speed traveling .. :(

Dwane
04-10-2013, 10:34 AM
Any combination of cloak/blur and infector/shotgun is OP.

Lexinator
04-10-2013, 10:36 AM
I've been doing this since the release of the game. Funny to finally see a thread pop up about it.

The only way to hard counter it is to slow the blur-user down somehow. Or just insta-gib them. One or the other. The latter is a counter to most things, though! huhu.

Yeah. That was my loadout of choice in PvP since that's what I used in beta as well.

I was really surprised that Cloak + Shotgun became so widely used right away since in Beta the primary PvP builds revolved around nade launchers or Infectors.


Any combination of cloak/blur and infector/shotgun is OP.

So is Decoy + Grenades as well as Overcharge + LMG. So every power is overpowered... Oh oh.
Maybe we should just get rid of all powers or weapons? Give everyone bows, arrows, and spears. Yeah, that's the ticket :)

greatdividers
04-10-2013, 10:41 AM
i wonder how long before the average pvp'r realizes that the game is actually quite balanced and the reason they are dieing is because they're getting outplayed...

Dwane
04-10-2013, 10:55 AM
i wonder how long before the average pvp'r realizes that the game is actually quite balanced and the reason they are dieing is because they're getting outplayed...

Yes, when totally invisible guy run into u and 1shot u with shotgun, thats outplayed, not balance issue.

greatdividers
04-10-2013, 10:57 AM
Yes, when totally invisible guy run into u and 1shot u with shotgun, thats outplayed, not balance issue.

if there wasn't 9000 ways to counter it i would agree with you, but...

Escalith
04-10-2013, 10:59 AM
if there wasn't 9000 ways to counter it i would agree with you, but...

There are 2, and both rely on luck and chance.

Decoy at the perfect moment to reveal them (If they sneak on you, you still need to 360 your vision every few seconds)
Bio Grenade and hope they run through it.

in 99% of all cases you won't spot a cloaker sneaking up on you if they use terrain in their path.

If they cloak infront of you and you /see/ them cloaking then yes, it's easy to counter.

greatdividers
04-10-2013, 11:01 AM
There are 2, and both rely on luck and chance.

Decoy at the perfect moment to reveal them (If they sneak on you, you still need to 360 your vision every few seconds)
Bio Grenade and hope they run through it.

in 99% of all cases you won't spot a cloaker sneaking up on you if they use terrain in their path.

If they cloak infront of you and you /see/ them cloaking then yes, it's easy to counter.

if that's all you can come up with for counters i can understand how you would think it's OP

Escalith
04-10-2013, 11:03 AM
if that's all you can come up with for counters i can understand how you would think it's OP

Well then, unless you come up with something other than /scan your screen every x seconds and spin around yourself/ and /spam decoy + bio grenades/launchers/etc in hope to reveal them/ and actually share it, you're just making things up.

Whiteyzz
04-10-2013, 11:20 AM
Well then, unless you come up with something other than /scan your screen every x seconds and spin around yourself/ and /spam decoy + bio grenades/launchers/etc in hope to reveal them/ and actually share it, you're just making things up.

You forgot picking up a aimbot, sniper and always 360 spinning counters everything so three, just don't talk to most shotgun cloak users

Problem is even for blur during it's downtime BOOM sawed off as soon as it's down but infest/blur is annoying but the problem is it's the ****ing counter to stealth even though it's luck still as i have to see them (though i spend 7 mins of a 10 min match blurred due to pumped up and a good flare pistol with +reload/and on full reload get % of your skill back it takes 3 reloads each in a second abuse the reload perks/ and gun effect) but even blur isn't that great as on loosing your shield you get 45% move speed which is pretty much our buff anyways

Pretty much

1st.Stealth + shotgun +immunizer (aka the long range one) or the one that slows
2nd.Blur + shotgun + immunizer (long range one again) or the one that slows

The problem with both of these skills is the amount of survivability and with the right flaregun/build is is down for 10-15% of the fight?

Aeekto
04-10-2013, 11:44 AM
Rolling twice clears those effects though (not a problem with all the extra speed you get)

Thatīs wrong..... it depends on the stack of biohazard how often you need to roll. You are able to stack it realy fast so high that you need 5 rolls to remove it (and dont forget that people keep firing at you so the stack refreshes all the time)..... and the VOT Spanner Trapper slow cant get removed with rolls, only with breaking the Link, but then the slow disappears instant.
Just do some teamplay and use the right weapons and blur user are easy to kill.

MosesOfWar
04-10-2013, 12:06 PM
Just do some teamplay and use the right weapons and blur user are easy to kill.

#1 Solution to all who claim something is OP!

Liage13
04-10-2013, 12:20 PM
The game is pretty fresh, most competitive meta's shift as time progresses, there will always be blur and cloak users but I think less so as time goes on.

Personally I don't think the "easy" builds take very much skill at all, explains a lot of the popularity of them.

MosesOfWar
04-10-2013, 12:39 PM
The game is pretty fresh, most competitive meta's shift as time progresses, there will always be blur and cloak users but I think less so as time goes on.

Personally I don't think the "easy" builds take very much skill at all, explains a lot of the popularity of them.


I'm not sure it's the case. From a meta standpoint, they are the first builds that people have come across as effective in PvP. New players in PvP usually carryover with their PvE EGO/Perk/Gear setups and players with PvP setups smash their faces in. Then, rather than adapt their Setup/Playstyle for PvP they complain or mimic what everyone else is doing. No one likes a challenge anymore, I swear, but that's what happens when games like Warcraft make things so easy, players misewell login, click a button and watch their character play for them.

The "Top 15%", or so called players that are constantly on the top bracket, are exploring new options and constantly tweaking their EGOs/Perks/Weapons, while the bottom 15% are most vocal about changing things. I bet everyone in between just doesn't really care and are enjoying the experience and will simply mimic the metagame.

There are many effective builds out there, and the game is a week old. People who have looked into them have found effective counters and posted them, in addition to pointing out that the game is meant to be played with a team complimenting each other. There's extremely vocal players, who want to change the game into their liking and to their advantage, instead of admitting their build has weaknesses against another build.. Rather than realizing that, adapting or pairing with a PC that compliments what their trying to do, they complain and don't take anything into consideration. I just wish more people would try to understand the game rather than try to change it because they don't.

Escalith
04-10-2013, 12:57 PM
I'm not sure it's the case. From a meta standpoint, they are the first builds that people have come across as effective in PvP. New players in PvP usually carryover with their PvE EGO/Perk/Gear setups and players with PvP setups smash their faces in. Then, rather than adapt their Setup/Playstyle for PvP they complain or mimic what everyone else is doing. No one likes a challenge anymore, I swear, but that's what happens when games like Warcraft make things so easy, players misewell login, click a button and watch their character play for them.

The "Top 15%", or so called players that are constantly on the top bracket, are exploring new options and constantly tweaking their EGOs/Perks/Weapons, while the bottom 15% are most vocal about changing things. I bet everyone in between just doesn't really care and are enjoying the experience and will simply mimic the metagame.

There are many effective builds out there, and the game is a week old. People who have looked into them have found effective counters and posted them, in addition to pointing out that the game is meant to be played with a team complimenting each other. There's extremely vocal players, who want to change the game into their liking and to their advantage, instead of admitting their build has weaknesses against another build.. Rather than realizing that, adapting or pairing with a PC that compliments what their trying to do, they complain and don't take anything into consideration. I just wish more people would try to understand the game rather than try to change it because they don't.

This doesn't change the fact that Cloak in it's current state and it's current counters is far superior to Overcharge for example.

Yeah, there are some counters, and some builds that can beat it //somewhat// effectively, but the skill curve to properly be able to counter cloak is drastically higher than with other perks. And the effort-reward for cloak is far greater than with any other perk.

Changes are required, mayhaps not nerf Cloak but rather buff other powers to a more competitive level.

While in Premade 6v6 Matches Cloak might not be as strong, the ability to vanish from sight with a fairly short cooldown and the ability to 2-shot unsuspecting players is far greater than '30% more damage for x seconds' in a TDM setting, especially on cluttered CQC Maps.

Cloak in itself isn't all to blame either, but map design and map focus are key as well.

Just look at it.

How to counter Overpower?

- LoS & Done.

How to counter Decoy?

- Check where it ran from and fire at it's user.
- Keep an eye on it and fire as soon as it shoots back.
- Throw a Nade at it

How to counter Blur?

- Slow the User
- Dodge-roll from melee attempts
- Try to keep initial distance to players in general.


^ None of those are perk or weapon reliant, other than mayhaps the slow. But even then you can pick any slowing weapon.

Now to counter Cloak, you need to run certain builds or slight variations thereof, use certain perk setup etc etc.

Considering how easy it is to use and how comparingly difficult to counter it, if you look at other powers, it is screaming for a change.

MosesOfWar
04-10-2013, 01:49 PM
This doesn't change the fact that Cloak in it's current state and it's current counters is far superior to Overcharge for example.

Yeah, there are some counters, and some builds that can beat it //somewhat// effectively, but the skill curve to properly be able to counter cloak is drastically higher than with other perks. And the effort-reward for cloak is far greater than with any other perk.


This is by design. Cloak is supposed to Counter Overcharge and this is why people are getting frustrated. Using the ability to cover ground to get behind an Overcharge user, or Snipe. Decoy is designed to counter Cloak, and the mentioned way of throwing a grenade at the Decoy/Person isn't a counter; you shotgun me, I teleport away. Easy enough.. BTW my teleport has an Perk that removes your Cloak and I can recharge it faster than almost any other perk if built correctly. But wait, my teleport is countered by one melee from a Blur user and the Blur user can easily close ground and knock the crap out of me... But not if I use Overcharge.. and a Bio-Nano, which entirely negates my EGO AND does constant 30% damage...

Each power is designed to have an advantage over one power and a disadvantage over another. The problem is, people come into PvE with Overcharge and don't understand from a PvP standpoint, Cloak makes their lives a living hell.. By design... The reason why people are complaining and saying the Cloak is so hard to counter is because they are using the EGO power that is most unacceptable to Cloak; then usually, they either do one of two things:

1. Start using Cloak because it worked against them.
2. Complain, because they don't understand this mechanic.

The reason why it's easy to get kills using Cloak/SGs right now is partially correct in saying that it's small maps. The other is the fact that some many players come over from PvE using Overcharge and expect is to operate as an effective PvP solo artist.. Which it is not. Overcharge works best with another player and is one of the deadliest PvP EGOs in a group; what it is not, is an effective EGO to run around with solo, at the current moment, because most people are running the EGO that counters it.

BTW: Ways to counter Cloak

1. Listen to Footsteps
2. BioGrenades
3. Decoy
4. Detonators
5. Stay in lit areas and look for shadows on the ground and motion blurs (easier to see in a lit up area than a dark area... As it should be)

Ways to Counter Blur:
1. Biogrenades
2. Overcharge + Bio-Nano Automatic Weapon (Totally Negates Blur)

If Cloak isn't balanced, how come there are people posting videos about it? It doesn't necessarily take any more or less skill, but people using Cloak hold an Advantage against Overcharge, a Disadvantage against Decoy and break even with Blur. The thing is, it's easy to prey on the PvP newbies, no matter what you have and it just so happens that most people that are new to PvP use Overcharge... And most people switching to Cloak are the ones that were using Overcharge.

Galdoblame
04-10-2013, 02:10 PM
Most of the complaints I see here are about how OP Cloak + Shotgun is, and while I don't agree (Blur + Shotgun is even more powerful IMHO), I don't really bother posting about it.

What I find ridiculously easy is Blur + Infector use. The homing aspect of these buggers + the speed and duration of Blur (made even more ridiculous by the perks around it) is absurdly OP. Switching from Overcharge + LMG to Blur + Infector (and Shotgun ofc), I am finding PvP to be too easy.

Honestly the Infector + Blur = the very definition of nooby spray and pray while running/jumping all over the place. I am very hard to kill/stop, and randomly firing ANYWHERE gets me kills.... My only bane is the BMG, and that's where the shotty comes in. Blur + shot in the face while you try to heal...

I don't know of a way to fix it since Blur is all about speed and the Infector is all about the homing/swarming.

What I think make this build even worse is it's interaction with cloaked people. I saw my bugs attack and kill cloaked targets on more than one occasion. Their aggro also shows me exactly where to shoot :o

personally,i prefer someone rushing at me with blur and movespeed buff to 1 shoot me with a double barrel than a invisible dude with the same weapon. The difference is that you don't need a specific setup to beat a blur user,just more skill and adapt your aim speed.

many blur user will rush you with shotgun,just fire before them ;)
many blur user will bonny hop around,just do the same movement with your aiming reticle
many blur user will kite with auto weapon. Just use something else than a shotgun.

Don't use explosive on blur user. they usually run with perk that reduce explosive range and give them ego regen when you hit them with such. You will die before you land you explosive correctly AND you will reduce it's ego recharge time

do not forget that blur only give ms out of the bat,and no damage boost. slow weapon are easy to found and counter them,really hard. A good cloak user will cloak for the 30% damage and burst him down before he kill him,a good overcharge user will kill him,simply beause he kill 30% faster,and a decoy user.....eh....well....i don't know :(

to resume,blur+infestor isn't a balance issue,since it's easely conterable with common thing. It's strong tho.i DO had (and still,in fact) some issus with them,because it's not easy to quickly adapt to the increase in movespeed.

and the real spray and pray here is overcharge with on impact noobtube.For real xD

Escalith
04-10-2013, 02:48 PM
This is by design. Cloak is supposed to Counter Overcharge and this is why people are getting frustrated. Using the ability to cover ground to get behind an Overcharge user, or Snipe. Decoy is designed to counter Cloak, and the mentioned way of throwing a grenade at the Decoy/Person isn't a counter; you shotgun me, I teleport away. Easy enough.. BTW my teleport has an Perk that removes your Cloak and I can recharge it faster than almost any other perk if built correctly. But wait, my teleport is countered by one melee from a Blur user and the Blur user can easily close ground and knock the crap out of me... But not if I use Overcharge.. and a Bio-Nano, which entirely negates my EGO AND does constant 30% damage...

Each power is designed to have an advantage over one power and a disadvantage over another. The problem is, people come into PvE with Overcharge and don't understand from a PvP standpoint, Cloak makes their lives a living hell.. By design... The reason why people are complaining and saying the Cloak is so hard to counter is because they are using the EGO power that is most unacceptable to Cloak; then usually, they either do one of two things:

1. Start using Cloak because it worked against them.
2. Complain, because they don't understand this mechanic.

The reason why it's easy to get kills using Cloak/SGs right now is partially correct in saying that it's small maps. The other is the fact that some many players come over from PvE using Overcharge and expect is to operate as an effective PvP solo artist.. Which it is not. Overcharge works best with another player and is one of the deadliest PvP EGOs in a group; what it is not, is an effective EGO to run around with solo, at the current moment, because most people are running the EGO that counters it.

BTW: Ways to counter Cloak

1. Listen to Footsteps
2. BioGrenades
3. Decoy
4. Detonators
5. Stay in lit areas and look for shadows on the ground and motion blurs (easier to see in a lit up area than a dark area... As it should be)

Ways to Counter Blur:
1. Biogrenades
2. Overcharge + Bio-Nano Automatic Weapon (Totally Negates Blur)

If Cloak isn't balanced, how come there are people posting videos about it? It doesn't necessarily take any more or less skill, but people using Cloak hold an Advantage against Overcharge, a Disadvantage against Decoy and break even with Blur. The thing is, it's easy to prey on the PvP newbies, no matter what you have and it just so happens that most people that are new to PvP use Overcharge... And most people switching to Cloak are the ones that were using Overcharge.

I'll admit that the counters you listed to counter cloak; but it's undeniable that it's far more difficult to counter cloak than to counter any other power.

I can't agree however with your rock paper scissors theory.

Overpower in itself is easily counterable by LoS'ing. And if you run with a team and use Overpower to flank, flanking itself negates the requirement to use Overcharge, as 90% of the times you flank you secure the kills.

You don't need Overcharge either to spam a Bio-Nano Automatic weapon upon someone using Blur. Considering the utility and power of the other powers, Overcharge simply stands out as pretty useless. Comparingly, that is.

And I think you missread my earlier statement.

Comparingly, countering Cloak; or even Blur is far more difficult than countering someone using Overpower.

Where as to counter Blur or Cloak you need to have X and Y equipped and make sure you take care of spotting for Z. Where as to counter Overpower all you need to do is LoS. The fact a simple sidestep can negate a perk entirely vs other perks requiring a plenthora of setups isn't balanced. It's not. No matter how many videos are posted or people claiming 'Cloak is fine'.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying "Nerf it to the ground and be done with it" - But it's simply ludicrous to say "It's fine" as well.

Simple small changes such as offering your Sensor Sweep a 2-3 second reveal on the minimap as well as unstealthing them for example would eliminate 80% of all cloak complaints, as you got a proper hard counter to it, provided you are willing to go this far. It would reduce the amount of people using Cloak, as more would use Decoy, thus eventually reduce the need of a dozen of people to go for Decoy and - finally allow other powers to be just as present.

The current Cloak counters are far too, let's say ''skill dependant'' compared to counters to other powers to make counter-builds a viable alternative. I will predict without a change, even as little as the one I suggested to Sensor Sweep, the 90% Cloak playerbase won't diminish, or at the very least we'll get a 50% Cloak 50% Blur setup at some point.

Kwatos
04-10-2013, 03:12 PM
Rock Paper Scissors is a hard game, can anyone explain it to me?

Lexinator
04-10-2013, 04:36 PM
Just do some teamplay and use the right weapons and blur user are easy to kill.

#1 Solution to all who claim something is OP!

Lol. I was going to make a comment on that but MosesOfWar beat me to it.


I will predict without a change, even as little as the one I suggested to Sensor Sweep, the 90% Cloak playerbase won't diminish, or at the very least we'll get a 50% Cloak 50% Blur setup at some point.

I don't have an issue with cloakers. I can see the bad ones running at me without an issue. Hell look for a fast moving outline/shadow or the tap tap tap of footsteps from behind! The ones that sneak are a bit harder, but still not bad.

Seeing as how Blur + Infector (and most good Decoy builds) are pretty much a hard counter to Cloak + Shotgun, I very much doubt that would be the cas - but I have been wrong before.... Many, many times :)


Rock Paper Scissors is a hard game, can anyone explain it to me?

Well, as Scissors I think Paper is fine - but that Rock needs a good nerfing!

Blackmagic20
04-10-2013, 05:32 PM
I'll admit that the counters you listed to counter cloak; but it's undeniable that it's far more difficult to counter cloak than to counter any other power.

I can't agree however with your rock paper scissors theory.

Overpower in itself is easily counterable by LoS'ing. And if you run with a team and use Overpower to flank, flanking itself negates the requirement to use Overcharge, as 90% of the times you flank you secure the kills.

You don't need Overcharge either to spam a Bio-Nano Automatic weapon upon someone using Blur. Considering the utility and power of the other powers, Overcharge simply stands out as pretty useless. Comparingly, that is.

And I think you missread my earlier statement.

Comparingly, countering Cloak; or even Blur is far more difficult than countering someone using Overpower.

Where as to counter Blur or Cloak you need to have X and Y equipped and make sure you take care of spotting for Z. Where as to counter Overpower all you need to do is LoS. The fact a simple sidestep can negate a perk entirely vs other perks requiring a plenthora of setups isn't balanced. It's not. No matter how many videos are posted or people claiming 'Cloak is fine'.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying "Nerf it to the ground and be done with it" - But it's simply ludicrous to say "It's fine" as well.

Simple small changes such as offering your Sensor Sweep a 2-3 second reveal on the minimap as well as unstealthing them for example would eliminate 80% of all cloak complaints, as you got a proper hard counter to it, provided you are willing to go this far. It would reduce the amount of people using Cloak, as more would use Decoy, thus eventually reduce the need of a dozen of people to go for Decoy and - finally allow other powers to be just as present.

The current Cloak counters are far too, let's say ''skill dependant'' compared to counters to other powers to make counter-builds a viable alternative. I will predict without a change, even as little as the one I suggested to Sensor Sweep, the 90% Cloak playerbase won't diminish, or at the very least we'll get a 50% Cloak 50% Blur setup at some point.

What do you use for PvP. Do you use Overcharge? All of your points seem to be going back to how overcharge doesn't stack up with blur and cloak.

Escalith
04-10-2013, 05:56 PM
What do you use for PvP. Do you use Overcharge? All of your points seem to be going back to how overcharge doesn't stack up with blur and cloak.

I use Decoy.

Blackmagic20
04-10-2013, 07:39 PM
I use Decoy.

Ah Cloak/ Blur sawed off shotgun/pump shotgun. I'd say I get just as many kills with my ego power being on CD than with it up.

fang1192
04-10-2013, 10:33 PM
I have one issue with the arguments against using decoys especially to reveal cloak. We know how prevalent cloak is, as of right now that is pretty much indisputable. Every game has 2 - 3 cloak users on each team. We also know that these maps are small and favor CQC such as shotguns. So why wouldnt Decoy and Sensor Sweep be effective? Sure, you need a certain power and perk to counter something but that is the current meta. 30 meters is a huge portion of the maps as it is, you lock down several peoples powers, and you have a free teleport.

To be fair, this is theory crafting on my part and i love to use cloak - not because it is the most effective but because i enjoy the playstyle it caters to.

Durka
04-11-2013, 06:21 AM
taking the time too roll twice kills soo much time i could have been running in blur. Roll speed does not increase

DC Zero
04-11-2013, 06:23 AM
Infectors just got hit hard in the patch notes. Looks like it will be more cloak + shottys until Freight Yard comes back. At least the sawed-off probably won't one-shot people anymore.

MosesOfWar
04-11-2013, 09:23 AM
...I can't agree however with your rock paper scissors theory....


It's a correct statement and the LoS beating overcharge does an effect. But Overcharge BMG or LMG at mid-range is brutal. The maps allow for a lot of cover right now, but Overcharge, shows how powerful it is against Blur users in Shadow War. This could be because of the close quarters nature of the maps, but I've seen people using Overcharge very effectively against Blur users, include Overcharge+Pump Shotguns dealing +30% damage with every shot, or AutoSnipers... I see more Overcharge users doing well on Observatory than Warehouse (where they have the ability to stay at range).



Simple small changes such as offering your Sensor Sweep a 2-3 second reveal on the minimap as well as unstealthing them for example would eliminate 80% of all cloak complaints, as you got a proper hard counter to it, provided you are willing to go this far. It would reduce the amount of people using Cloak, as more would use Decoy, thus eventually reduce the need of a dozen of people to go for Decoy and - finally allow other powers to be just as present.

The current Cloak counters are far too, let's say ''skill dependant'' compared to counters to other powers to make counter-builds a viable alternative. I will predict without a change, even as little as the one I suggested to Sensor Sweep, the 90% Cloak playerbase won't diminish, or at the very least we'll get a 50% Cloak 50% Blur setup at some point.

I agree and disagree with this statement; the reason why I disagree is because countering a built relies on specific perk/equipment combos. Blur requires the specific use of BioGrenades to counter and the reason why I say Blur is better countered by OVercharge than anything else, is because of Overcharge's 30% damage boost as a constant.. bio-Nano's typically do less damage (or no damage in the case of grenades), so the additional damage of Overcharge compensates for that offset... Now with Bio Nano's having a cooldown, we'll see if that's still the case.

Overcharge IS difficult to counter. I don't know if you've played as a Blur Shotgunner against an Overcharge user with a Nano-LMG or BMG.. You can win the fight, but it takes a lot more effort than a Blur user v. a Decoy User, or Glass Cannon Cloak Shotgun. Overcharge and Decoy about cancel themselves out with defense v. offense and blur and cloak cancel each other with speed and fading into the shadows.

They aren't necessarily the hardest of counters, but they do work as of recent. Her's the thing I agree with what you said on, simple buffs to other powers I'd prefer to nerfing another. Cloak, in the eyes of the devs, wasn't the issue, it was, in there eyes, the Sawed-Off. It's a sacrifice cloak players are going to have to accept and I believe you will see less complaints, because there will be less point blank "one shots".


Infectors just got hit hard in the patch notes. Looks like it will be more cloak + shottys until Freight Yard comes back. At least the sawed-off probably won't one-shot people anymore.

Cloak + Pump Shotgun is not as effective as Overcharge+Pump Shotgun; you get a constant 30% damage bonus, compared to once every time you're invisible... This is going to depend on how much of the damage reduction that the devs give to the sawed off is; I don't believe the Shotgunning and Cloaking is going to have the same effect as Cloak is a glass cannon setup and I believe the effectiveness of the cloak shotgunner is going to be diminished because. The Cloak user will have to hit with the Sawed-Off Shotgun and switch weapons for the kill. Sawed-Offs may still do like 75% damage to a player, but it gives time to the target to make a move, such a dropping a Grenade, combat rolling/Overcharging or initiating Blur. Cloaking while using a Pump Shotgun isn't going to be an efficient setup because the lack of a single damage spike.

We'll see though.

RoP707
04-11-2013, 09:33 AM
read the patch notes in 1.010 the infectors is getting nerfed lower homing range decreased bug speed and damage