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The 5 Ds of Death
06-25-2018, 05:46 PM
When you hear the word assassin, we all have a idol of who and what they can. For example, John Wick. He can kill people with a pencil. That's how big of a badass he is. What we have here in defiance is John Wick 5 years too early. When making a class in a game, we must have synergy. Some of these skills arn't bad, but imo need some tweaking. Some on the other hand, I do not understand the logic. Now I am going to break down all the egos and perks.

Steath- invisible for 10 secs and when come out do 100% more dmg for 3 secs. this is a good skill for pve and pvp. Id like to see that dmg extended to 10 secs tho for reasons i'll explain after breakdown.


Eviscerate- crit hits cause 3% bleed dmg over 3 secs. 20 sec cooldown. complete and utter trash. when you killing something, at least when i do, the fight one on one will be over before it fully procs. how to fix. make all the dmg proc 1st hit and reduce cooldown to 10 secs.


Evasive Maneuvers- rolling increases dmg by 15% for 5 secs. 20 sec cool down. very good skill. id like to see it last for 10 secs tho


Stalk- increases movement speed for by 25% for 5 secs while cloaked. good by imo strickly a pvp skill


Mark- target one enemy and do 150% more crit dmg for 5 secs. everyone does more crit. great ego but horrible activation. also like to see duration bumped to 10 secs

Bio Toxin- apply garbage damage over time effect that last for 5 secs and if they die, they can spread it. you can apply this for 15 secs. the dmg is terrible and irrelevant. how to fix. increase dmg and lose the damage over time. then apply dmg all at once. keep them all affected for 5 secs with chance to spread it.


Sniper Recovery- increases recoil recovery by 25%. Trash. As one of the best snipers of all time on original defiance, This is not needed at all. How to fix... change name and skill to Not Today- gain x amount of heath back on kill. 5 sec cooldown. All you hip firing surgebolter users dont count.


Pistol Empower- 15% extra dmg when close with pistol. Outstanding skill. Change nothing


Hunt- on crit kill 50% reload speed. outstanding skill- change nothing maybe move to tier 1 skill tree and move one of the other ones


Scoundrel- do 25% more dmg from behind. in theory its good but i see it more as a pvp skill


Devastation- crit hits have a 15% chance to stun enemy for 3 secs. 20 sec cooldown. not that good at all. fix increase to 25% chance with 15 sec cooldown


Execute- do 40% more dmg when enemy heath below 30%- its good


Hidden Blade- whip out a charge blade and go to town. great idea. great dmg sadly it is not viable. the enemies hit like they are made for a squad so one you go to attack a group of 3-4 the odds are you doing down. maybe it has a chance if you changed that one skill to Not Today and could heal while attacking


Big Bang- whip out super sniper and put in work like agent 47 for 40 secs. great dmg dealer. super long cooldown of 2 mins



In summary, Assassin feels pretty bad outside using your super sniper. The dmg boast you get dont last for long and makes waiting for your sniper again makes you feel like just an e rep soldier. this could be changed if my fixes and put in. Waiting for temp dmg boast is very underwelming when i was sold this is the end all be all for dps classes during the livestream. Hopefully it gets redeemed in the full game at some point.


A pencil....

crasher
06-25-2018, 06:57 PM
Just upgraded to assassin at lvl 25, with no points to spend, and no instruction as to how to activate.

I'm just going to ignore it at this point.

Thanks a lot for the info, I had no idea what was in there.

Hit the Deck
06-25-2018, 08:59 PM
Your summary doesn't quite match your breakdown but I agree with most of your points.

I think Bio Toxin was good though because it can set a chain reaction and kill a lot of enemies, just make sure that at the beginning you "spray" them all with bullets to apply the toxin. Not sure how it will scale at higher levels.

And most importantly, she gets a pretty nice outfit at lvl 25 :p

boinged
06-26-2018, 02:31 PM
This is likely going to be my main class and I enjoyed it a lot over the weekend so good to read your thoughts.

I generally agree although was more impressed by Bio Toxin as it felt fun but it is a bit strange having DoT skills on a burst damage class. I felt conflicted having some nice DPS skills and then having to tag as many mobs as possible while Bio Toxin was up. I tried Mark and the activation animation killed it for me. Also it felt like the debuff dropped after one shot but maybe the duration was just too short. The only thing I found it useful for was for ensuring a headshot with an automatic sniper rifle did the job properly.

Due to the long cooldowns on active skills I feel we need something more than single target burst damage due to the large amount of bullet sponges trash mobs. I guess this is what Execute and Pistol Empower are for. Generally I felt the passives were strong for the Assassin class and even Eviscerate could be useful on something with a lot of HP.

I really miss D13 Steath where I can drop out of stealth and back in as it has much more utility for picking off enemies while not getting shot. With Assassin Stealth once you drop it you are committed.

I also played a few levels of Guardian and if you thought Assassin was bad...

Hit the Deck
06-26-2018, 02:58 PM
I generally agree although was more impressed by Bio Toxin as it felt fun but it is a bit strange having DoT skills on a burst damage class. I felt conflicted having some nice DPS skills and then having to tag as many mobs as possible while Bio Toxin was up. .

I'm thankful that the devs gave her this skill because without it, the Assassin would be too gimped in Sieges/Coops/etc. where you need to kill a lot of trash mobs.

Kylarran
06-26-2018, 06:51 PM
Just upgraded to assassin at lvl 25, with no points to spend, and no instruction as to how to activate.

I'm just going to ignore it at this point.

Thanks a lot for the info, I had no idea what was in there.

crasher... I'm going to take a stab at trying to figure out what you are talking about. Let me know if what I'm saying lines up with what happened for you.

At a point in the main mission series, it sends you to the Crater. When you get there, there's a new NPC just to the right of the small bar area. She's standing beside two large storage containers on the dirt and the one on the right was glowing... and you clicked on it to complete your mission. What that completion did, was give you enough Hunter Requisition (the name of the icon/token in D13) tokens to spend at that NPC to unlock your second class of your choosing. It costs 250 HR tokens to unlock the starter classes, and 1000 tokens for the Demolitionist... and I assume that will be the same cost for every future class they introduce.

So I'm assuming you started the game playing some class OTHER than assassin, and you spent 250 HR tokens to unlock the Assassin class to play. You did not "upgrade" technically... in that you still have your starter class, it did not get replaced. You really then had 2 different classes to pick from and play. What you can do is keep your starter class in loadout 1, and then make loadout 2 into your assassin class. You then are free to use Hold-q, move the mouse to loadout 1 or 2, then release q... to quickchange between those classes as you wish at any time in your gameplay.

Since you unlocked the Assassin class, you then start it off with just the rank 1 skill with 1/3 points into it, and you can choose to level the Assassin class up, just like you did your starter class by playing it, up to 25 points. When you are in loadout 2 your XP earned will apply to the Assassin leveling up, when you are in loadout 1 your XP goes to level up your first class.

If there is another open beta weekend, perhaps you can give the Assassin class a try, or come launch in July, you'll be ready for that 2nd class option at the Crater.

That NPC at the Crater will be where we'll all be going to unlock new classes for ourselves in 2050.

Kylarran
06-26-2018, 06:58 PM
I'm curious, did any of you assassins happen to notice if you applied bio toxin to armored mob groups, like the scrappers, did that application seem to help other players strip the armor faster... as D13 bio nano can proc and spread bio nano to nearby mobs for a 6 second duration and all other players can have their damage rip armor faster.

Basically, I'd like to know is the Assassin's Bio Toxin just an area dot, or does it also, really, apply bio nano effects too.

Kylarran
06-26-2018, 07:13 PM
I'm also curious ... if Eviscerate stacks with Mark FOR OTHER PLAYERS to have their crit do more damage, as well as trigger multiple bleeds from Everyone who sticks a crit during it's timeframe. I'm not sure this will show well in solo play, normal mobs will die to sniper hits anyway, the bleed just helps finish them off if low health. Versus large targets however, with critting from everyone on a boss's crit phase... Hellion for instance? Matron sticks her pretty li'l face out of the ground and regrets it dying while burrowed to dots?

Did anyone note the duration of the bleed? It's relative strength? Can you have a high stack count or just a single bleed? Take a techmag with 17 shots per sec to the poor mob... will that wreck face? (Yes, I'll bring up the ludicrousness of techmags sticking crits for another thread, so set that aside for the moment. If you tried one in beta, you'll understand.)

Yes, clearly I didn't play an Assassin.

boinged
06-27-2018, 05:44 AM
I kind of wished I'd tested the strength of the dots now. It is not helped by the fact that the descriptions do not include values and there is no UI feedback for dots although damage numbers should have been seen on the mob for each tick.

I believe Eviscerate is for the assassin only, not a debuff on the mob that other players can use. Also it should not be affected by Mark because Mark affects crit damage and not the dot portion that Eviscerate applies.

The passive skills like Eviscerate and Evasive Maneuvers have cooldowns (which can't be seen) so e.g. the bleed can only trigger once every 20s but I'm not sure if that is per mob. Likely it is not.

Kylarran
06-30-2018, 01:08 PM
I kind of wished I'd tested the strength of the dots now. It is not helped by the fact that the descriptions do not include values and there is no UI feedback for dots although damage numbers should have been seen on the mob for each tick.

I believe Eviscerate is for the assassin only, not a debuff on the mob that other players can use. Also it should not be affected by Mark because Mark affects crit damage and not the dot portion that Eviscerate applies.

The passive skills like Eviscerate and Evasive Maneuvers have cooldowns (which can't be seen) so e.g. the bleed can only trigger once every 20s but I'm not sure if that is per mob. Likely it is not.

Useful feedback, has me thinking what weapon types I'd want to try using it with come launch.