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Boss Waters
04-11-2013, 10:12 AM
Cloak is fine. You use it and you're cloaked (the immediate shield recovery is definitely debatable). Working as intended, no problem.
Shotguns are fine. They're good at close range. (Anyone complaining that the range of a SG is too great is most likely trolling or unintelligent.)
Aim Assist is not for PvP. The major determining factor of who wins and loses in PvP should be skill. Aim Assist is not skill.
The problems are the players.
"I don't want to die to a shotgun at point blank! I want to be able to see the invisible people while they're invisible! I want my crosshairs to magnetize to my targets!" (When you read that it sounds incredibly stupid, doesn't it?)
It's PvP. Increase skill. Decrease whine.
Come at me, bros.

Dwane
04-11-2013, 10:19 AM
Cloak is fine.
Shotgun is fine.
Cloak+Shotgun isnt fine.

Its PvP. Its noskill freefrag combo. Increase brain output.
Ya dawg, came at you, yo pal.

Boss Waters
04-11-2013, 10:22 AM
Cloak is fine.
Shotgun is fine.
Cloak+Shotgun isnt fine.

Its PvP. Its noskill freefrag combo. Increase brain output.
Ya dawg, came at you, yo.

Show me a video of a bad player using this "no skill free frag combo" annihilating the other team. Until then.
Next?

greatdividers
04-11-2013, 10:23 AM
Cloak is fine.
Shotgun is fine.
Cloak+Shotgun isnt fine.

Its PvP. Its noskill freefrag combo. Increase brain output.
Ya dawg, came at you, yo pal.

noskill eh. then how come the same people consistently are at the top? must just be a coincidence...

Boss Waters
04-11-2013, 10:26 AM
noskill eh. then how come the same people consistently are at the top? must just be a coincidence...

It has probably never occurred to any of these bad players that they're just being outplayed. Yea SG+Cloak is strong. SG is good for CQC and Cloak helps get to CQC (or escape). So this "ggezpkthx" combo seems OP to the intellectually UP.

Bradael
04-11-2013, 10:34 AM
No part of SG is over powered..... When I pvp I have friends with me .... He kills me ... He's dead ... One you have people using infectors you will start saying there OP ...... If you keep moving its hard as hell for a SG to one shot you ... Yes you stop your dead a SG will get you or ill take your face off with a sniper stop QQing

Boss Waters
04-11-2013, 10:47 AM
Cloak - Instead of immediately starting shield recovery change it to "removed from combat" so you then wait the recharge timer on your shield.

My alternative to aim assist:
Aim Down Sights / Scoped sensitivity under settings.
Increased bullet speed for AR, SMG, LMG, and Pistols.
Both of these things will make it marginally easier to land hits medium-long range while still requiring you to aim.

Need feedback. Come at me, bros.

OMGBEES
04-11-2013, 10:51 AM
Cloak is fine.
Shotgun is fine.
Cloak+Shotgun isnt fine.

Its PvP. Its noskill freefrag combo. Increase brain output.
Ya dawg, came at you, yo pal.

There are plenty of perks or weapons that will pull people out of stealth or allow you to immediately put distance between yourself and the cloaker once they open on you. You want to talk about increasing brain output? How about you sit down and think about how to get better at pvp rather than complain about something that is working fine.

MosesOfWar
04-11-2013, 10:55 AM
No part of SG is over powered..... When I pvp I have friends with me .... He kills me ... He's dead ... One you have people using infectors you will start saying there OP ...... If you keep moving its hard as hell for a SG to one shot you ... Yes you stop your dead a SG will get you or ill take your face off with a sniper stop QQing

Not exactly true.. The decoy tree has plenty of defensive perks to counter a cloaking shotgunner that are based off of not moving. Basically, you become an immobile tank, but it you have a sawed-off, the cloaker will die in one shot, while you take 3 - 4. Cloak isn't the problem, it's player skill and the inability to adapt a playstyle.

People are whining because they want Overcharge to beat Cloak, which it's not meant to do. And their too lazy to switch to a perk setup that is effective against Cloak; they want their cake and they want to eat it too. They want Overcharge to be able to counter Blur AND Cloak.. They don't think it's "Fair" that one power has an advantage over another and don't understand that each power has inherent traits to counter another power. The refuse to understand that logic and refuse to adapt their gameplay, only to complain that their style of play or build isn't the problem, the game is. Go figure, these are the type of players who want it there way and refuse to accept the game rules that were handed to them. It's like a guy in Dugeons and Dragons, pissed off because he choose to play as a Warrior but can't cast Magic missile... every game he plays, instead of choosing to play as a Wizard so he can do what he's griping about.

Carlos Mastermind
04-11-2013, 11:02 AM
Problem: Hate Shotgun + Cloak combo using players who run up close cloaked and one shot me in the face.

Solution: Go play shadow war and stop playing the close quarter pvp maps that they have.

Everyone uses close quarter weapons on these maps because they are small. If you can't take it don't play them. I completely agree with Boss Waters, however aim assist is in most shooter games which take skill as well. Having it makes little difference in my opinion because it isn't a full on lock down and hold target, it only assists.

Boss Waters
04-11-2013, 11:23 AM
For me personally I think the game functions just fine at the moment. The reason for this thread is to show people there are alternatives (other than nerfs) to make the game more enjoyable. I would like for this game to get a larger fan base because, let's face it, all multiplayer games are more fun with more people. My suggestions don't remove any mechanics for abilities/items that people enjoy and also provide marginal balance that seemingly are:
1) wanted by a portion of the community
2) not OP or ridiculous requests

Instead of making drastic changes to the game to try and find balance the developers should take small steps so that no one is completely deterred from playing their game.

greatdividers
04-11-2013, 11:24 AM
Instead of making drastic changes to the game to try and find balance the developers should take small steps so that no one is completely deterred from playing their game.

i just posted this in another thread but:

in the last 6 months trion has done an incredible job balancing pvp in rift. it is by far the most balanced it has been since the game released. i am fully expecting that this balance will carry over to defiance.

Boss Waters
04-11-2013, 11:31 AM
i just posted this in another thread but:

in the last 6 months trion has done an incredible job balancing pvp in rift. it is by far the most balanced it has been since the game released. i am fully expecting that this balance will carry over to defiance.

I've heard nothing but good things about Trion. Hopefully the player base doesn't completely ruin this game because, for some reason, I have a feeling if it goes downhill it won't be Trion's fault.

Dobranoc
04-12-2013, 01:09 AM
Not exactly true.. The decoy tree has plenty of defensive perks to counter a cloaking shotgunner that are based off of not moving. Basically, you become an immobile tank, but it you have a sawed-off, the cloaker will die in one shot, while you take 3 - 4. Cloak isn't the problem, it's player skill and the inability to adapt a playstyle.

People are whining because they want Overcharge to beat Cloak, which it's not meant to do. And their too lazy to switch to a perk setup that is effective against Cloak; they want their cake and they want to eat it too. They want Overcharge to be able to counter Blur AND Cloak.. They don't think it's "Fair" that one power has an advantage over another and don't understand that each power has inherent traits to counter another power. The refuse to understand that logic and refuse to adapt their gameplay, only to complain that their style of play or build isn't the problem, the game is. Go figure, these are the type of players who want it there way and refuse to accept the game rules that were handed to them. It's like a guy in Dugeons and Dragons, pissed off because he choose to play as a Warrior but can't cast Magic missile... every game he plays, instead of choosing to play as a Wizard so he can do what he's griping about.

OKAY... let me know what to use to survive a VOT Nano Fragger that dishes out 7.8k damage per shot coming out of stealth? I have honestly been on both ends, and even with total defensive perks, Rhino IV shield, and a Protector BMG rolling you cannot survive a 1 shot from this. Using Decoy+Sensor Sweep is on a massive CD even with CD reducing perks since you cannot cancel the decoy and it last min of 16 seconds, so give or take every 20 seconds you can ping 30 meters around you once... grenades can get lucky and land a hit but only flash and bio will break stealth (with pumped up I can refresh the CD of stealth in less then 8 seconds while the grenades have another 26-32 second CD). so then... weapons? Sludge rocket launcher to break stealth but only have 10 shots default in pvp... only 'good' way i can think of trying to survive this is spamming a protector BMG (since it has the longest range of 10m which can chain, a mild aim-assist, and doesnt waste charge (no ammo) if you are using it offensively and not hitting an enemy) but then you have an shotgunner less then 10m from you and you have a BMG as your weapon... maybe I am missing something but I have accepted the fact that a cloaked VOT Nano Fragger will kill me no matter what I try

Boss Waters
04-12-2013, 07:59 AM
Maybe some players forget the fact that bad luck happens. Sometimes, players will be at your back and when someone sees you from behind without you knowing (cloaked or not) do you think you have good odds of living? Maybe if you don't have an ace (like cloak or decoy) you shouldn't be running around in the open when you know a large player base uses Cloak.

If you do want to just run around in the open get used to dying frequently.

Rusty
04-12-2013, 08:20 AM
Everyone. Play the game. Quit *****in. Dont like CQC in PVP? then play shadow wars. Dont like snipers cloaking in shadow wars? play PVP. Dont like that do SOMETHING THE F*** ELSE! theres tons to do. So if you think something in the mechanics is OP then shut up, try again after the 15ths patch. Lets not rag on a game that in my opinion, is pretty balanced. Let the all knowing, troll nerdzillas come at me. i spelled this wrong, you forgot a comma!! Eat it, n piss off. Adios, pendejos.

greatdividers
04-12-2013, 08:22 AM
Everyone. Play the game. Quit *****in. Dont like CQC in PVP? then play shadow wars. Dont like snipers cloaking in shadow wars? play PVP. Dont like that do SOMETHING THE F*** ELSE! theres tons to do. So if you think something in the mechanics is OP then shut up, try again after the 15ths patch. Lets not rag on a game that in my opinion, is pretty balanced. Let the all knowing, troll nerdzillas come at me. i spelled this wrong, you forgot a comma!! Eat it, n piss off. Adios, pendejos.

they need a like button on this forum :D

MosesOfWar
04-12-2013, 08:29 AM
OKAY... let me know what to use to survive a VOT Nano Fragger that dishes out 7.8k damage per shot coming out of stealth? I have honestly been on both ends, and even with total defensive perks, Rhino IV shield, and a Protector BMG rolling you cannot survive a 1 shot from this. Using Decoy+Sensor Sweep is on a massive CD even with CD reducing perks since you cannot cancel the decoy and it last min of 16 seconds, so give or take every 20 seconds you can ping 30 meters around you once... grenades can get lucky and land a hit but only flash and bio will break stealth (with pumped up I can refresh the CD of stealth in less then 8 seconds while the grenades have another 26-32 second CD). so then... weapons? Sludge rocket launcher to break stealth but only have 10 shots default in pvp... only 'good' way i can think of trying to survive this is spamming a protector BMG (since it has the longest range of 10m which can chain, a mild aim-assist, and doesnt waste charge (no ammo) if you are using it offensively and not hitting an enemy) but then you have an shotgunner less then 10m from you and you have a BMG as your weapon... maybe I am missing something but I have accepted the fact that a cloaked VOT Nano Fragger will kill me no matter what I try

Blast Shield? Using Decoy more effectively? Watching your radar? Communicating with your team? Listening to footsteps, hearing them and not seeing anything on radar? Using Decoy for Teleport? Staying in well lit areas? There's plenty of things that you can work on to improve your game play and skills.