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Santana Ortega
04-11-2013, 11:10 AM
So I have been messing around with various guns. Launcher is meh, Detonators are average at best. Pistols just seem horrible. Some auto rifles are bleh.
I am sure I am missing something here but I see zero usage for a pistol.

Low capacity of ammo, range damage is weak and I only see a single target use when up close, might as well use a shotgun for that.

So what am I missing in using a Pistol?

Seems Assault rifle is the best next comes sniper rifles, SMG uses too much ammo too fast.

Ashnon
04-11-2013, 11:12 AM
Snipe from the shadows pursuit 3.... Thats all I'm using the pistol for atm

Shogo_Yahagi
04-11-2013, 11:14 AM
Snipe from the shadows pursuit 3.... Thats all I'm using the pistol for atm

^This is the only reason I can think of.

DoomFrog
04-11-2013, 11:16 AM
I agree. The drop off damage and low ammo pool (not clip size), make pistols useless. The only conceivable reason to equip a pistol is as a back up if you run out of ammo, but ammo is so easy to get that it isn't even a good reason.

Pyth
04-11-2013, 11:16 AM
Variety?

I can speak from personal experience that the Wolfhound and perhaps even the other 7 Round Standard Pistols destroy enemies if you consistently land head shots. They're challenging and rewarding.

Perhaps they'd be more useful if they had an extremely short weapon swap time compared to the other weapons. But that's just not the case as it stands.

Cavadus
04-11-2013, 11:19 AM
Pistols are sidearms. What they're meant for is finishing off a target. Like, you mag dump on a target and it's close to death but not dead. Rather than wait for a reload you just quick swap to your pistol and finish your target.

I use a Wolfhound as my primary sidearm and employ it in nearly every single encounter in this fashion. Y'all need to stop treating this game like WoW or LOTRO or GW2 or any other completely banal and trite themepark MMORPG, IMO.

Defiance is not some tab-to-target fantasy game with RPG combat; this is a shooter. You'll need to treat it as such to understand it.

JMadFour
04-11-2013, 11:21 AM
Pistols are for Critical Kills.

Shogo_Yahagi
04-11-2013, 11:22 AM
LOL, arrpeegeeyers.

Have any of you played actual shooters? Pistols are sidearms. What they're meant for is finishing off a target. Like, you mag dump on a target and it's close to death but not dead. Rather than wait for a reload you just quick swap to your pistol and land the killing blow.

I use a Wolfhound as my primary sidearm and employ it nearly every single encounter in this fashion. Y'all need to stop treating this game like WoW or LOTRO or GW2 or any other completely banal and trite themepark MMORPG, IMO.

Yeah, except I can switch to a shotgun and do the same thing, only easier. Y'all need to stop assuming other players don't know what they're talking about.

CapN CooK 420
04-11-2013, 11:23 AM
Pistols are sidearms. What they're meant for is finishing off a target. Like, you mag dump on a target and it's close to death but not dead. Rather than wait for a reload you just quick swap to your pistol and finish your target.

I use a Wolfhound as my primary sidearm and employ it nearly every single encounter in this fashion. Y'all need to stop treating this game like WoW or LOTRO or GW2 or any other completely banal and trite themepark MMORPG, IMO. This is not some tab-to-target fantasy game with RPG combat; this is a shooter. You'll need to treat it as such to understand it.

Pistols suck and you think people are treating this game like WoW.....? Gf.
You could switch to a shotgun or just reload and say screw the pistol

JMadFour
04-11-2013, 11:23 AM
Pistols are sidearms. What they're meant for is finishing off a target. Like, you mag dump on a target and it's close to death but not dead. Rather than wait for a reload you just quick swap to your pistol and land the killing blow.

I use a Wolfhound as my primary sidearm and employ it nearly every single encounter in this fashion. Y'all need to stop treating this game like WoW or LOTRO or GW2 or any other completely banal and trite themepark MMORPG, IMO. This is not some tab-to-target fantasy game with RPG combat; this is a shooter. You'll need to treat it as such to understand it.

With an Ammo Reserve increase Pistols will be perfectly fine main weapons. I use a Pistol in my first slot, and the only issue I have is running out of ammo. but then again, I'm building myself around Pistol use(lots of Crit-related perks.), not just using one all willy nilly.

You need to stop treating this game like it is Call of Duty or Battlefield or some other completely banal and trite match based FPS. It doesn't have to be all Assault Rifles and Shotguns, just because you say it does.

latonio
04-11-2013, 11:24 AM
you just haven't found the right pistol. i have one pistol that's freaking awesome. i knocked enemies to the ground. which is good if you need a place to recover. smg use to much ammo. but take out enemies quick. but i have the ammo regen perk equipped which comes in handy quite a bit for that situation.

CapN CooK 420
04-11-2013, 11:24 AM
Yeah, except I can switch to a shotgun and do the same thing, only easier. Y'all need to stop assuming other players don't know what they're talking about.

Yes I'm sick of know it all's on a game that is brand new.

Cavadus
04-11-2013, 11:24 AM
Yeah, except I can switch to a shotgun and do the same thing, only easier.

Pistols have better falloff, accuracy, and rate of fire in most cases so you can afford to miss once or twice; shotguns don't have that room for error built-in.

I prefer the pistol over the shotgun as backup as I can throw a lot more lead down range much more quickly and the crits are far more severe.

SweetMadness
04-11-2013, 11:24 AM
Pistols are for Critical Kills.

Which can be done with any weapon and competent marksmanship... Or aim assist.

RomanTerms
04-11-2013, 11:26 AM
Wolfhound with x4.2 crit multiplier, siphon effect, and extended magazine has been second only to a purple SMG I'm in love with for damage.

Hate to say it...but learn to play.

Ronan DEx
04-11-2013, 11:27 AM
I actually have a few pistols I use fairly frequently. typically the wolfhound.

I like having a fast firing semi auto secondary and it has lightning on it, orange quality, 4 outlaw mods. it does the job :)

JMadFour
04-11-2013, 11:27 AM
Which can be done with any weapon and competent marksmanship... Or aim assist.

Indeed.

but I choose to do them with Pistols.

and that's the beauty of a MMO Shooter, as opposed to a regular old team deathmatch shooter where everyone has to use the same weapons.

ironhands
04-11-2013, 11:27 AM
pistol is a close range sniper rifle, meant for single(or quick burst) shot, precise crits.

every weapon has a specific use, for specific situations. a shotgun is great when you can't be precise, and/or there are more than one enemy in range. SMG is amazing burst DPS when something needs to die or there's a limited time to hit it, at the expense of ammo. launchers are usually about splash damage.

Vault Dweller
04-11-2013, 11:27 AM
I keep lookout for the VBI HP-6 Wolfhound. With good mods and basic crit. bonus i have it doing 354 dmg with 5+ crit. mult. =)

JMadFour
04-11-2013, 11:29 AM
pistol is a close range sniper rifle, meant for single(or quick burst) shot, precise crits.

every weapon has a specific use, for specific situations. a shotgun is great when you can't be precise, and/or there are more than one enemy in range. SMG is amazing burst DPS when something needs to die or there's a limited time to hit it, at the expense of ammo. launchers are usually about splash damage.

yup.

Personally, I am growing to like the Pistol/SMG combo.

Pistol in my first slot, for precise crits, SMG in my second for when I just need to pump out a lot of Damage in a short amount of time.

SweetMadness
04-11-2013, 11:29 AM
Everyone and their darned Wolfhound!

I keep looking at the Blaster going, "This is why pistols have a low ammo reserve."

Santana Ortega
04-11-2013, 11:32 AM
I guess what I am asking is why that when ther other options are as good if not better?
Sniper rifle for obvious range sniping.
Assault for mayham spraying all over...not that useful but ...
Shotgun for spray damage...


Does a Pistol do better damage to the Bug heavy mobs and boss mobs?

Warkaiser
04-11-2013, 11:32 AM
Pistol can be pretty amazing if you use them properly. Just requires a bit more practice / ability to land crits constantly. Also depends on the type. Some of them are pretty bad. Wolfhounds I find are my favorite.

Kriegson
04-11-2013, 11:34 AM
Pistol is a short range precision weapon. Good critical multiplier and nano effects as far as I can tell, it is made to quickly drop targets with critical hits ONLY.

If you aren't critting you're wasting your ammo. With a good pistol and critting, you can annihilate enemies quickly, though the low mag cap and reserve are a concern.
Imo they need to be pulled out and readied up faster to really have a niche as a reserve weapon, or less recoil on most variants to make it a better precision weapon.

ironhands
04-11-2013, 11:37 AM
yup.

Personally, I am growing to like the Pistol/SMG combo.

Pistol in my first slot, for precise crits, SMG in my second for when I just need to pump out a lot of Damage in a short amount of time.

I got with a siphon 3 round burst shotty with a 25 round mag, with a downpour pulser when a biggun pops up. I really wanna put a radiation mod on the pulser, the damage would be insane

Cavadus
04-11-2013, 11:37 AM
Everyone and their darned Wolfhound!

I keep looking at the Blaster going, "This is why pistols have a low ammo reserve."

The EMC Magnum's are pretty decent too especially with expanded magazines or the +mag mastery bonus. I really like the one off the vendor at Hermit's Hideaway.

That thing crits hard.

Radzwe
04-11-2013, 11:37 AM
The flare gun is pretty amazing but it is getting adjusted.

Spiegel
04-11-2013, 11:38 AM
You may or may not have noticed this but if you HIP SHOT a pistol (or at least the magnums) the crit bonus goes WAY up. I think a hip-head-shot from a magnum is the strongest single hit in the game, 2.5K ish.

RextintorZ
04-11-2013, 11:38 AM
I also used to hate pistols because most of them are useless, but that changed after I got the Northstar Flare. That thing is really good.

Put a +Mag mod in it and you can have 5 shots instead of just one and its critical hits are really powerful (that's why they are nerfing it on the next big patch). I have seen 5k crits with this weapon.

If you hit any humanoid enemy on the front while it is facing you, that's a critical hit. And you can even use this pistol to stagger the Monarchs after their roll (I really hope they change this).

The point is: try each pistol you can find and see what pleases you most. That was my case with the Northstar Flare. But I still hate the other pistols =/



-----

Shima
04-11-2013, 11:40 AM
I think pistols are meant as a short to medium range sniper rifle basically (so only good for headshots). If you're just shooting blind you'll find them less effective than, well, everything else.

Auldrek
04-11-2013, 11:40 AM
The Wolfhound is good but try this:

VBI HP-5 Wolverine

DMG 505
FR 12
mag 20

Get an effect on this and it is a great weapon.

armedpoop
04-11-2013, 11:42 AM
Yeah, except I can switch to a shotgun and do the same thing, only easier. Y'all need to stop assuming other players don't know what they're talking about. Basically, i'm a giant D bag.

See what i did there? multiple people have quouted the guy and you add to his comment? Why?
He makes a valid point without coming off like a ****. Btw burst pistols are powerful IMO

RAYNE Mois
04-11-2013, 11:45 AM
VBI HP-6 Wolfhound.. Mine hits crits for about 1500. Takes about 2 to 3 shots on any non-boss mobs I run into.
I think most of you are just doing something wrong.

Dagbiker
04-11-2013, 11:48 AM
I have a pistol that full autos, it can take down pretty much any enemy in the first two to waves of ArkFalls, until the elites come in. It is only a green level 350.

Shogo_Yahagi
04-11-2013, 11:55 AM
See what i did there? multiple people have quouted the guy and you add to his comment? Why?
He makes a valid point without coming off like a ****. Btw burst pistols are powerful IMO

What are you talking about? I didn't add anything to his quote. Perhaps he edited it after I quoted him.

Edit: I went back and looked at the thread. He has definitely edited since I quoted him. All I did was hit reply with quote. So yeah, who's the giant D bag now?

SweetMadness
04-11-2013, 11:59 AM
The EMC Magnum's are pretty decent too especially with expanded magazines or the +mag mastery bonus. I really like the one off the vendor at Hermit's Hideaway.

That thing crits hard.

Got an Orange in my first T4 at ER 250ish.

I'm full-auto nut though.

Napalm Sunrise
04-11-2013, 12:06 PM
So I have been messing around with various guns. Launcher is meh, Detonators are average at best. Pistols just seem horrible. Some auto rifles are bleh.
I am sure I am missing something here but I see zero usage for a pistol.

Low capacity of ammo, range damage is weak and I only see a single target use when up close, might as well use a shotgun for that.

So what am I missing in using a Pistol?

Seems Assault rifle is the best next comes sniper rifles, SMG uses too much ammo too fast.

The VBI Wolverine pistols especially with Radiation or Dark Matter do some insane base damage (505) even at medium to medium-long range and with average of 16 rounds a mag and 4 round bursts with almost no reticle bloom (that I notice anyways) they are a really good all around PVE weapon. better than single shot magnums unless you're a crack shot gunslinger and they kinda make you feel like Robocop.

Think it over CREEP!

Era
04-11-2013, 12:21 PM
My wolfhound puts out over 22k damage in under 2.5 seconds. If you don't have one of these for skitterling crystals then you don't know how to play.

Will also return to be my default monarch weapon once they nerf launchers.

Murzin
04-11-2013, 12:24 PM
pistols are good for the low bloom, and if you get a 2-3 shot autopistol or a wolfhound, they can be pretty effective damage dealers.

stick to the 480 or 520 pistols. the flare guns that do 1k are more akin to grenade pistols, so less useful imo especially with their 1-2 clip size forcing constant reloads and their firing is in an arc.

cassell
04-11-2013, 12:25 PM
^This is the only reason I can think of.

^ agree, and I am dreading having to do that because pistols are so boring.

BetaChapel
04-11-2013, 12:32 PM
I kind of like pistols actually...
have a full auto 4 slot modded pistol that rips people in half in shadow wars. i think they can compete so using them is personal preference

Jay
04-11-2013, 12:36 PM
although AR is my main and I love shotties for spawn clearing and the dwarfs with shield..

nothing is more Jack Bauer/bad @$$ as drawing your side arm and emptying an entire clip and every shot crit and drop the mooks, you clear a spawn like 'yeeah!'

game needs a twirl flourish for a pistol imo

Eihder
04-11-2013, 12:38 PM
Northstar Flare pistol.. its both an explosion and sets them on fire.. and tends to have 2 elements :P

JagerMyk
04-11-2013, 12:38 PM
I kind of like pistols actually...
have a full auto 4 slot modded pistol that rips people in half in shadow wars. i think they can compete so using them is personal preference

agree just started back to using them, when I lost my first one I wasnt going to use them again. but I found a great little Wolfhound repeater, not great but good. it can be used as a primary, an say a shotgun secondary...use the shotty, switch to pistol, have perk that reloads secondary, switch etc etc. but yes personal pref. most def.

Bedouin
04-11-2013, 12:44 PM
Northstar Flare pistol.. its both an explosion and sets them on fire.. and tends to have 2 elements :P

I use this pistol as well, it really is a beast especially paired with Shadowstrike ... but will see how it fairs after the nerf on Monday.

Warlander
04-11-2013, 12:44 PM
Pistols are a side arm, and they work well, although they could use a larger ammo pool, thats it.

Cropcord
04-11-2013, 12:48 PM
Pistols are sidearms. What they're meant for is finishing off a target. Like, you mag dump on a target and it's close to death but not dead. Rather than wait for a reload you just quick swap to your pistol and finish your target.

I use a Wolfhound as my primary sidearm and employ it in nearly every single encounter in this fashion. Y'all need to stop treating this game like WoW or LOTRO or GW2 or any other completely banal and trite themepark MMORPG, IMO.

Defiance is not some tab-to-target fantasy game with RPG combat; this is a shooter. You'll need to treat it as such to understand it.

Exactly. I keep a pistol in my 2nd slot. when those *******s are charging at me and I am peppering them with a rifle. I always get them about halfway down and then switch off weapons. my pistol does about 1000 damage to the head when I get them in close, plus fire DOT

Vikar
04-11-2013, 12:51 PM
Pistols are for people who can aim. You can't just pump some slugs into the meat like with a shotgun, or swing the barrel around in a generally face-type direction and expect the spread to cover for you.

This is actually why I don't use pistols, I'm a spaz. But I recognize the difference between "I can't use pistols well" and "all pistols are bad".

Furthermore, rocket launchers do -not- suck. They're amazing AoE weapons and useful for those who need to deal with nuisances at unreachable range (seriously, 99er snipers, **** you)without resorting to a rifle. They don't do -quite- as much damage per shot as I might like, but their splash damage is respectable (especially mixed in with a well-placed grenade)and they're pinpoint accurate at long range. A good double duty weapon.

Leslannatrix
04-11-2013, 01:02 PM
I've been lucky and got an Orange VOT Pistol,
25 rounds
354 dmg per round
8.7 RoF (empty in 3 seconds)
Reload : ~2 seconds (don't recall exactly)
FULL-AUTO
Siphon effect
+15% grenade reload on a kill

I'm using this on Crystal Arkfalls, combined with Overload I can "destroy" 2 weak spots in 6 seconds.

SweetMadness
04-11-2013, 01:02 PM
Pistols are a side arm, and they work well, although they could use a larger ammo pool, thats it.

Will never happen.

The Votan Blaster is better than ARs and Carbines, and the SMGs in general stats. If they upgraded the pistol ammo pool, the balance would be horribly upset.

BetaChapel
04-11-2013, 01:02 PM
Pistols are for people who can aim. You can't just pump some slugs into the meat like with a shotgun, or swing the barrel around in a generally face-type direction and expect the spread to cover for you.

This is actually why I don't use pistols, I'm a spaz. But I recognize the difference between "I can't use pistols well" and "all pistols are bad".

Furthermore, rocket launchers do -not- suck. They're amazing AoE weapons and useful for those who need to deal with nuisances at unreachable range (seriously, 99er snipers, **** you)without resorting to a rifle. They don't do -quite- as much damage per shot as I might like, but their splash damage is respectable (especially mixed in with a well-placed grenade)and they're pinpoint accurate at long range. A good double duty weapon.

homing RL in shadowwars with extra vehicle damage = awesome. Takes 4-wheelers down and great to defend yourself from the all feared Cerberus.

Cavadus
04-11-2013, 01:05 PM
the flare guns that do 1k are more akin to grenade pistols, so less useful imo especially with their 1-2 clip size forcing constant reloads and their firing is in an arc.

Unless they come with a +4 mag size mastery bonus and then you throw an extended mag mod on them. All of the sudden you have 8-10 rounds per mag.

Galdoblame
04-11-2013, 01:07 PM
So I have been messing around with various guns. Launcher is meh, Detonators are average at best. Pistols just seem horrible. Some auto rifles are bleh.
I am sure I am missing something here but I see zero usage for a pistol.

Low capacity of ammo, range damage is weak and I only see a single target use when up close, might as well use a shotgun for that.

So what am I missing in using a Pistol?

Seems Assault rifle is the best next comes sniper rifles, SMG uses too much ammo too fast.

the automatic pistol is nice at dps,and pistol always (or almost) have a element modifier.

magnum are great at headshot in cloak in pvp

Other pistol does some cc. And burn like the flare one.


need any more explaination?

jnt
04-11-2013, 01:08 PM
So I have been messing around with various guns. Launcher is meh, Detonators are average at best. Pistols just seem horrible. Some auto rifles are bleh.
I am sure I am missing something here but I see zero usage for a pistol.

Low capacity of ammo, range damage is weak and I only see a single target use when up close, might as well use a shotgun for that.

So what am I missing in using a Pistol?

Seems Assault rifle is the best next comes sniper rifles, SMG uses too much ammo too fast.

It's solid damage for some of the Hellbug arkfalls. Hellion glands etc.

Boss Waters
04-11-2013, 01:10 PM
Maybe make weapon swapping to pistol slightly faster than other weapons? I haven't had much use with pistols so I don't know if there's anything that could make that OP.

BetaChapel
04-11-2013, 01:13 PM
Maybe make weapon swapping to pistol slightly faster than other weapons? I haven't had much use with pistols so I don't know if there's anything that could make that OP.

I agree maybe having a slight edge with pistols, like naturally fastest equip time or something. I mean, they are a real secondary in a game that lets you have two primaries.. so i dont think it would be OP.

jnt
04-11-2013, 01:14 PM
I agree maybe having a slight edge with pistols, like naturally fastest equip time or something. I mean, they are a real secondary in a game that lets you have two primaries.. so i dont think it would be OP.

Reload time should be extremely fast too. It's realistic and a decent way to make them stand out.

SweetMadness
04-11-2013, 01:17 PM
Quick swap and faster reloads?
Unneeded. If they're going to receive any kind of increase then their stats need to take a dive to make them an actual secondary.

Rikishi
04-11-2013, 01:18 PM
They should have split SMGs into normal SMGs and machine pistols, making the first slot for Primaries and the second slot for secondaries (Infectors, BMGs, pistols and machine pistols), as it stands there is no point using a pistol over anything else that does the job better.

jnt
04-11-2013, 01:19 PM
Quick swap and faster reloads?
Unneeded. If they're going to receive any kind of increase then their stats need to take a dive to make them an actual secondary.

Why can't they be primary weapons?

TheIgmo
04-11-2013, 01:20 PM
I might not be remembering correctly, since I'm not at my gaming computer, but don't most pistols have like a 2.5x to 4.5x critical multiplier? I've always looked at them as the weapon to use when you're going against stuff that has easy-to-hit critical spots.

SweetMadness
04-11-2013, 01:20 PM
Why can't they be primary weapons?

They already are.

BetaChapel
04-11-2013, 01:24 PM
They already are.

But thats the thing, they are not quite as good IMO. Not when you have all the other choices that you can double up with as primaries.
We are talking a small edge to make them something people may want to use more often. Like the quick fall back weapon you can quickly equip to finish someone with when your primary runs dry. As it stands now, you can just pull out another big hog weapon like an LMG or pump shotty.

jnt
04-11-2013, 01:29 PM
I might not be remembering correctly, since I'm not at my gaming computer, but don't most pistols have like a 2.5x to 4.5x critical multiplier? I've always looked at them as the weapon to use when you're going against stuff that has easy-to-hit critical spots.

Yeah I have one I use to hit Hellion Glands. 800+ damage as fast as I can click.

Darkeus
04-11-2013, 01:45 PM
Because my pistol can crit for 1500+ each hit and it fires 3 round burst when I pull the trigger.. I can do up to 4,500 damage on a good day, even more if I am cloaked and behind someone when aimed in. Heck, I use it as a sniping rifle when I am bored....

Warkaiser
04-11-2013, 01:45 PM
But thats the thing, they are not quite as good IMO. Not when you have all the other choices that you can double up with as primaries.
We are talking a small edge to make them something people may want to use more often. Like the quick fall back weapon you can quickly equip to finish someone with when your primary runs dry. As it stands now, you can just pull out another big hog weapon like an LMG or pump shotty.


Thats the thing. Its in your opinion. Clearly by looking at the thread you can see others do not share that opinion. I prefer my pistol to either the LMG or pump shotty. Perhaps it is a matter of your build / perks. I play a sniper, so I run multiple crit perks, increased stealth damage, etc. If I dont finish something off with my sniper and it gets too close I just whip out my pistol and drop it nerly instantly with crits.

Its all about crits with the pistols. Especially particular ones like the Wolfhound. The Wolfhound comes with a base 4.1x Crit multiplier. Higher than anything else if I recall correctly. Get ahold of one with a crit bonus already on it, add a crit mod, and run some crit perks... it not only has the highest base crit but each of those additional crit bonuses adds more crit than to anything else also. There is also a bonus you can get, which I currently have on my main Wolfhound I always carry which adds another 15% crit when firing from the hip. Again, that 15% will do more with the Wolfhound than with any other type of gun. I dont currently have one on me that is fully critted out, but I believe you can get upwards of around 5.5-6x crit just from weapon bonuses and mods, not accounting for perks. Add the perks in and it becomes quite a bit more.

Just think of Pistols like Daggers used by rogue / assassing type classes in your typical RPG. Theyre not typically a massive damage dealer on their own, but if you gear & spec yourself for high crits they will destroy anything you go after as long as you can land those crits. Good thing with Defiance though is youre not relying on random procs of crits, you have complete control and can land 100% crts if youre good.

SweetMadness
04-11-2013, 01:52 PM
But thats the thing, they are not quite as good IMO. Not when you have all the other choices that you can double up with as primaries.
We are talking a small edge to make them something people may want to use more often. Like the quick fall back weapon you can quickly equip to finish someone with when your primary runs dry. As it stands now, you can just pull out another big hog weapon like an LMG or pump shotty.

Were not the majority of the people in this post just going on about how good the pistols are? I think you've defeated your own argument.

jnt
04-11-2013, 01:54 PM
Were not the majority of the people in this post just going on about how good the pistols are? I think you've defeated your own argument.

At the end of the day I'd just like to be able to hold more rounds. I can hold what? 160 pistol rounds or 500 ar rounds? really? seems a little off.

Napalm Sunrise
04-11-2013, 02:00 PM
At the end of the day I'd just like to be able to hold more rounds. I can hold what? 160 pistol rounds or 500 ar rounds? really? seems a little off.

Think they look at the weapon as more of a controlled fire weapon or sidearm/last resort vs. an AR which at the minimum fires in burst as opposed to being primarily semi-auto orientation as most pistols are set up. Additionally could be a balance perspective? I mean you ever see an AR that can do base damage of 800-1000 plus or fire exploding bullets (e.g. Frontier Northstar)? Give your pistol a reserve ammo limit of 500 and you have a 500 round supplied mini sniper rifle if you add a scope and barrel attachment (e.g. Frontier Magnum or Bullrush).

SweetMadness
04-11-2013, 02:01 PM
At the end of the day I'd just like to be able to hold more rounds. I can hold what? 160 pistol rounds or 500 ar rounds? really? seems a little off.

Magnums do almost as much as Bolt Action Snipers. Snipers only get 50 rounds in their reserve. And as I pointed out, the machine pistols can easily out do the SMGs and some ARs due to similar firing rates and superior damage of the pistols. The only seperation between them is the Falloff and ammo reserve. I understand how you feel, I agree, I'd love to carry 500 pistols rounds and go crazy with the Votan Blasters.

jnt
04-11-2013, 02:03 PM
Think they look at the weapon as more of a controlled fire weapon or sidearm/last resort vs. an AR which at the minimum fires in burst as opposed to being primarily semi-auto orientation as most pistols are set up. Additionally could be a balance perspective? I mean you ever see an AR that can do base damage of 800-1000 plus or fire exploding bullets? Give your pistol a reserve ammo limit of 500 and you have a 500 round supplied mini sniper rifle if you add a scope and barrel attachment.

It's like a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. If I feel like it I can kill everything that moves in a side mission without running out of sniper ammo. I'd never bother to use a pistol for that. In a co op map there are reloads every other door.

BetaChapel
04-11-2013, 02:06 PM
Were not the majority of the people in this post just going on about how good the pistols are? I think you've defeated your own argument.

I did say it was my opinion that pistols are not as good. I am saying they could be better because if people go for crits - then an assault rifle with crit damage the obviously larger clip is the clearer choice. I just want more balance between what each gun has to offer.
Either way i like pistols for the visual ascetics but wouldnt mind a buff if they are now balancing guns.

thirtyseven
04-11-2013, 02:07 PM
I got blessed with an orange wolverine. I agree with you on the style factor of pistols.
the falloff damage can be a pain though.

MADD
04-11-2013, 02:10 PM
Pistols suck and you think people are treating this game like WoW.....? Gf.
You could switch to a shotgun or just reload and say screw the pistol

GREAT signature bro. LOVE IT!

iCanHazHeadSh0t
04-11-2013, 02:12 PM
The only reason I keep a pistol is to have a weapon to switch to when my assault rifle ammo is depleted.

The Defiant One
04-11-2013, 02:12 PM
No offense but your thick, pistols+high rate of fire+high crit=dead *** mofo's, If you don't like pistols your not hitting crits. TRION did not add in a pointless weapon because they thought it was funny, every weapon is good it depends on how you use it.

WaGzy
04-11-2013, 02:13 PM
Wolfhound Pistols are almost OP in PVE if you know how to aim :|

Napalm Sunrise
04-11-2013, 02:14 PM
It's like a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. If I feel like it I can kill everything that moves in a side mission without running out of sniper ammo. I'd never bother to use a pistol for that. In a co op map there are reloads every other door.

Ehh, Idk really. I burn ammo a lot in high enemy traffic zones during side missions for the pistol because I have a couple that just really work. especially on those a-wipe elite mutant cleavers because they are a more viable mid-range backup option than a sniper or a shottie for me. But you strike a good point. Maybe it was a PVP consideration pre-launch. Cloak in a Shadow War from hella far away with sniper and pistol backup both with upgraded scopes and damage barrels and one with massive ammo reserves? Just throwing knives in the dark here.

SweetMadness
04-11-2013, 02:15 PM
I did say it was my opinion that pistols are not as good. I am saying they could be better because if people go for crits - then an assault rifle with crit damage the obviously larger clip is the clearer choice. I just want more balance between what each gun has to offer.

But the AR isn't always the better choice. As I pointed out, if you're in range to avoid the fall off, the Votan Blasters will out do all of the other automatic weapons in DPS. a base 354 damage, and 13.0 Rate of Fire. AR base is 200 and 12.0, 300 and 9.0 (iirc), and I can't recall the Battle Rifle's RoF off the top of my head. The only reason to choose the AR/Carbine in this situation is range. Or maybe nano effects/weapon modifiers.

Oh and a little thought to off set the ammo problem pick up that perk near Overcharge that restores ammo reserves off a melee kill and occasionally give a baddie a good pistol whip.

bahrayn
04-11-2013, 02:17 PM
Wolfhound Pistols are almost OP in PVE if you know how to aim :|

Agreed. This is the only pistol I actually look for and use. I've gotten top 5 in major arkfalls and number one in co op missions just using the pistol.

jnt
04-11-2013, 02:18 PM
But the AR isn't always the better choice. As I pointed out, if you're in range to avoid the fall off, the Votan Blasters will out do all of the other automatic weapons in DPS. a base 354 damage, and 13.0 Rate of Fire. AR base is 200 and 12.0, 300 and 9.0 (iirc), and I can't recall the Battle Rifle's RoF off the top of my head. The only reason to choose the AR/Carbine in this situation is range. Or maybe nano effects/weapon modifiers.

Oh and a little thought to off set the ammo problem pick up that perk near Overcharge that restores ammo reserves off a melee kill and occasionally give a baddie a good pistol whip.

I had a 404 or so damage full auto AR for awhile, it was pretty hilarious vs groups of enemies at short range. Just feather the trigger at head level, nothing but crits etc. 45 round magazine.

Pistol is, at range, really just a more controllable semi auto sniper with dramatic damage fall off.

Greywolf
04-11-2013, 02:21 PM
Seems I almost have to say this every day now.

WATCH THE MOVIE IN MY SIGNATURE.

Aim for weak spots.






PISTOL ADVOCATE IN THIS THREAD. Sorted.

DustOfDeath
04-11-2013, 02:23 PM
this is like a ego-skill fight inbetween rpg and fps nerds -_-

"i can do headshots with pistols at 100 meters its op" " pistols suck i prefer shotguns" etc.

Weapons are far from balanced and useful. regardless of situation - some wepons do **** in all situations.
Wolfhound is the only pistol worth having, rest is just crap - or only has specific pvp uses. If its fast, it uses up ammo too fast (why would u want a pistol smg -_-) if its slow... well its simply slow. And most got really bad bloom.

Greywolf
04-11-2013, 02:26 PM
My purple wolverine has 0.75 bloom, and my wolfhound has 0.30 bloom, wolverine burst fires.. is siphon and procs ALOT. im talking like every third shot, so shields are full most of the time, wolfhound is just hectic for crits.

use an assault rifle for any time you have to do grey dmg, soon as you see an opportunity opening up for a critical, swap to 500% pistol and eat some souls, sorted.

Rhorge
04-11-2013, 02:27 PM
Detu Ara is a pistol. Reason enough to level them.

jnt
04-11-2013, 02:33 PM
Detu Ara is a pistol. Reason enough to level them.

Is that the silly machine pistol from Nim? Yeah the Shondu consulate vendor loves the one I sold it.

Flatsoda
04-11-2013, 02:34 PM
I don't care to much for the pistol after i got my first SMG while its a ammo spammer if fired properly in controlled bursts isn't as bad.

BetaChapel
04-11-2013, 02:35 PM
Is that the silly machine pistol from Nim? Yeah the Shondu consulate vendor loves the one I sold it.

LOL

- but yeah. pistols.

Lord Marshal
04-11-2013, 02:56 PM
Seems I almost have to say this every day now.

WATCH THE MOVIE IN MY SIGNATURE.

Aim for weak spots.



PISTOL ADVOCATE IN THIS THREAD. Sorted.

What pistol is that in the video?

valhalla
04-11-2013, 02:57 PM
I'm new to the world, wasn't in beta, but running my first character with a burst fire aslt rifle + pistol (load1) and full auto elec aslt rifle + submchn (load2). Maybe it's a bit "roleplay" though I don't consider myself a RP'er. I find it fun and enjoyable to crit headshots for 1400 with my wolfhound side arm. It was even better when I didn't stop to re-supply and ended up out of assault rifle ammo and had to fall back on my side arm. Granted I could have gone into inventory and quickly equipped a shotgun or rocket launcher but why. For me it was experiencing that scene in "Aliens" when Rodriguez draws her sidearm out and I was knee deep in a bug nest. :)

Yeah, so I died a couple times until I "magically" found more ammunition on the ground. It was good times and something I'll remember. When games come and go over the years that's really all you take away anyways.

Cheers - Valhalla

Dandrielas
04-11-2013, 03:01 PM
The only reason I use pistols besides the pursuit is because I am used to it from COD. When I play as a Sniper in that game, switching to pistol is very fast, so I kinda carried on that tradition in this game. Plus, I use cloak a lot which works well for pistols.

Cloak + head shot=dead

Era
04-11-2013, 03:04 PM
Wolfhound Pistols are almost OP in PVE if you know how to aim :|

Almost?

My unmodded Wolfhound Pistol chained crits at min range:
1416 per shot
6.5 shots per second
16 round mag
1.8 reload
22656 damage per mag
9204 damage per second
5316 damage per second accounting for reload during extended fire

Find me another gun that clears those last 2 numbers. Either of them.

Xyril
04-11-2013, 03:07 PM
Wolfhound pistols has okay base damage and awesome crit mulitpliers and fast reload. I find it useful in bug arkfalls where the pistol really shine 100% crit chance on huge targets. Outside of that its outclass by the rest weapon types.

Exes
04-11-2013, 03:10 PM
Wolfhounds pistols are pretty much the best weapons to kill stuff like the scrapper scorpion or anything with a small mostly open crit area. It works very well against bigger hellbugs too as, if you can get the aggro, the elite/patriarch whatever will run straight at you and you can simply unload into his mouth.

Usually kills elite hellbug warriors running at you in few seconds, not even using a full mag in coop (means the health is scaled up).

Greywolf
04-11-2013, 04:18 PM
What pistol is that in the video?

Just a blue wolfhound, in that movie it is unmodded, an orange wolfhound will tear shreds especially if it has a +4 clip, get another +4 clip magazine mod on it, and your looking at a 20clip magazine 500% crit pistol, only bad thing about pistols is drop off dmg so you gota keep close,

on a side note i will be uploading my monarch quick kill guide in a minute, how to kill a monarch in 20 seconds

Doctor Samurai
04-25-2013, 07:42 AM
Pistols are not crap. You need to learn how to use them. If you use the Wolfhound you will come top damage in instances 90% of the time. Yeah it has low damage...but it has a stupidly high crit modifier (I had one with almost 5). So get in close and keep shoring them in the head. I have a Wolverine I have missed atm that can take out almost every non-elite in one to two bursts.

RoG Goat
04-25-2013, 07:42 AM
My wolfhound has the highest DPS of any of my guns...
and I have a legendary Saw

Rek Vio
04-25-2013, 07:46 AM
I messed around with one particular pistol that when shot into a enemy's head crit for 1k damage easily. I don't understand why you think they are obsolete. They have a use just like every weapon in the game, some better than others.

Duskguy
04-25-2013, 08:06 AM
Haven't read all the pages here but I have a 25-ish round full auto pistol. It is like a glock and I love it with my sniper as a secondary. Not sure about this but seems as if the switch from one weapon to the next is faster when switching to a pistol rather than say a lmg. Also pretty sure pistols are the quickest reloaders. I can empty the 25 rounds in about 1.5 seconds reload in another .5 seconds and be shooting again.

Did the protect farmers from raiders with just this pistol and I had to constantly pick up new ammo. It has an acid property as well which is nice.

Have a second pistol with the purple laser looking property syphon I think, and while semi auto has a 15 round magazine whice only takes about 2 seconds to empty. The accuracy is really high with little to no spread or recoil firing as fast as possible.

While not ideal for lots of situations, pistols are very useful.

greatdividers
04-25-2013, 08:30 AM
IF you are able to maintain 100% accuracy and 100% criticals a wolfhound is the highest dps (including reload) weapon in the game.

see:
weapon chart! (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuAXA8GRArcRdFZvOGxnTmtWZ0lNdkFaR0s5anNMc 1E#gid=0)

Racheakt
04-25-2013, 08:33 AM
I used to think that, then I looked at the crit multiplier....

I have a pistol on 2 of my load outs now

Insanityplea
04-25-2013, 08:39 AM
Pistols work perfectly fine for nearly any encounter as long as the user knows how to use the damn thing.

For people whining about weapons and their falloff damage and oh noes its a **** weapon...Duh ******, your trying to shoot it from 20m out.

Iv seen people top coop scoreboards damage/kill wise with pistol / smg loadouts. Hell iv done it with pistol/shotgun loadouts more than once.

So, heres how it stands.

LEARN
TO
PLAY

before you bash a weapon type.

Tgreen
04-25-2013, 08:43 AM
There's a stat special to purple and orange items:
'10% refresh of your EGO puwer on full reload'

And there's a perk called 'Pumped Up':
'15% refresh of your EGO puwer on full reload'

These two things added the very simple mathematical fact that Ground Pounder is broken and has the highest DPS against any armored target and Wolfhound and VBI Auto pistols have easily the highest DPS against every target that can be hit for critical damage ... make me not really care whether or not you stick to your SAW for every target no matter if it's a good idea or not, when Dekuso and Motherload are two of the rare examples of when it's actually an outstanding choice.

Play the game the way you want, the co-ops are so ridiculously easy it doesn't matter whether you're at 100% and it gives me the opportunity to get continue to severely outperform the rest of pretty much every group I met.


ps: I added Autopistol to the Wolfhound - yes, the raw DPS are not as high but application of nano effects is more frequent due to weapon mechanics and it seems like nano effect chance is dependent on weapon type, with pistol being higher than SMGs or ARs for example.

pps: The SMG ripoff that is VOT Blaster makes ARs and SMGs pale in DPS as well, but is well balanced since you cannot use it as a primary weapon because of the ammo limitations.

ppps: I'm done testing FRC Bull Rush and it's really not bad, but the handling ... I might just not be skilled enough for that kind of recoil. -.-

Malachi
04-25-2013, 08:52 AM
I get pistol kills all the time from far away. Just land head shots. Anything other than a headshot is a waste. Pistols get some craaaazy high critical modifiers, so headshots do a lot more damage than on other guns.