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Cyripax NeoPrime
04-11-2013, 10:59 PM
Ive been reading alot on the forums, and cant be bothered to join anmore pvpp matches myself be,ause of the excessive ppl that just use cloak to get close to you and then one/two shot you with shotguns. Its the most noob weapon to use in multiplayer, and it takes no skill to use, especially with the op setup of adding cloak to it. I shouldnt have to stoop to thier level and use the same setup to have any chance of enjoying pvp matches. I know theyre trying to address some of this in the patch notes. But I myself would like to see more ppl using guns that require some skill to use in pvp, pistols/magnums, a nice lmg/smg/ar with some recoil, something to show you have some game mechanics and marksmanship and arent just juping on the lets be invisible and spray shotgunfire at everything that moves because were not good enough to use a fair weapon bandwagon.

Heres zwhat id suggest for future patches....now these suggestions would be for deathmatch/team deathmatch and by no means do I want shotguns banned from pvp, theyre fun to use sometimes, but not when everyone in a group is using them together to gang up on ppl thinkin theyre the best cos they dont play fair

A. Maybe when you enter a match the gun you use can be randomized and given to you,like a set weapon system so it evens types out between pvp players. Say theres 6 on a team- only 2 shotguns per team(and also randomize the ego powers in this case) so everyone cant pick the same op setup.

B. Disable the use of ego powers in pvp deathmatch entirely. I see them as more for the story part of the game nyway. Let us keep perks, but disable ego powers and any perks that directly apply to intensifying the 4 egos. Lets be honest, when you can pretty much run up to someone and one shot em b4 they know or had a chance, its not fair in pvp.

C. Disable aim assist......now I keep mine off in everygame ive ever owned because to me its just a feature for ppl who are bad shots. Its like a noob feature. Or training wheels so to speak, since I keep mine off im not even sure if pvp has the option for it in defiance, but I saw some guy posting that it was on in multiplayer mTches earlier today, and thats just wrong for and pvp deathmatch mode. Its supposed to be about skill, not having someone hold your hand while your training wheels are on and walking you to the guy wearing a blindfold so you can pop him once and feel like youve actually accomplished something to be proud of. Lol. Aim assist should never be a part of deathmatch. And I apologize now incase it is infact disabled here

I dunno, thats all I can think of. That would have been a far better balance then nerfing guns that effect the pve players as Again though I find most pvp unenjoyable due to exploits and hackers and campers anyway(call of duty, im lookin at you) after awhile someone always ruins them as soon as they can figure out how but maybe ill be able to enjoy it again one day...... I know this is all unrealistic and dont expect anything. Just some thoughts on the subject that ive seen entirely too many people(sadly including myself) get bent out of shape.over when we shouldnt be.......because its a game ppl! A damn good one too. Probably my new favorite game. And I know that not EVERYTHING in EVERYGAME can make EVERYONE happy. EndRant,lol

Dobranoc
04-11-2013, 11:31 PM
A. will not happen, because whats the point of farming for the right gun that has the perfect little bonus effect, and wasting all the points to add more slots and then farm the perfect mods to make your dream gun, then when its maxed you get a crummy second effect so you have to do this over again till you get the right one, if I cannot use the guns I farm for in PVP why farm them?

B. don't see this happening... if we cannot use the EGO powers in PVP, then the perks should be disabled aswell, and if they are why even have a perk tree? PVE? PVP has been every MMOs true endgame (if it had pvp). if you dont believe me, imagine all the other MMOs who had weapons, skills, and whatever else nerfed for PVP reasons even if it hampers PVE, or better yet let me know what MMO has had events to see who can kill raid bosses the best...

C. aim assist is disabled in PVP... if it is on... oh dear god yes REMOVE IT FROM PVP!!!

I do know how you feel, its depressing and annoying to see everyone with sawed-off, and pump shot guns (though the Grind Fragger is listed as a pump yet its full-auto with pump action damage...). Also I don't know if its just how I play or if people actually are diversifying, but I see Blur, Overcharge, and Cloak about the same in PVP. I do only have 1 real complaint about stealth though... why does it turn on shield recharge? Isn't that a massive combat reset for PVE and PVP...

Cyripax NeoPrime
04-11-2013, 11:37 PM
Like I said, I know its all pipedreams, but a guy can dream, no?,

Would it be so terrible for everyone to have balanced weapons in pvp and not be able to bring in thier own op weapons? It would make sure everything was fair and up to skill alone. If not,then the matchmaking system needs an o9verhaul to include the weapons people are using into account along with player stats.

Dobranoc
04-11-2013, 11:43 PM
Like I said, I know its all pipedreams, but a guy can dream, no?

I know, I feel ya, but it will never be balanced unless they make everything symmetrical... weapons, grenades, shields, skills, perks, maps... heck i remember hearing that some FPS, and TPS ended up 'nerfing' skins because they gave some teams a better advantage... but games with balance like that get boring...

Baron_Blunder
04-12-2013, 01:55 AM
Adding my preference here, in case an enthusiastic Dev stumbles by:

Reduce movement speed whilst Cloaked by 33% but otherwise keep as it is.

Makes use of Cloak and close weapons more tactical and in-character, without being a total nerf.

Fiancee
04-12-2013, 02:03 AM
if you cant kill them, join them? Like whats the big deal, you can choose whatever ability you want.

Devs just needs to make some maps where shotgun/cloak isnt so damn good. More medium-range fights and shotgun is useless.

LIKE IF YOU THINK ITS GOOD WHY DONT YOU USE IT? ******ed ****.

Baron_Blunder
04-12-2013, 02:23 AM
if you cant kill them, join them?

I certainly switched to Cloak after experimenting with other abilities in PvP.

theycallmelaz
04-12-2013, 03:06 AM
Would be good if there was a paint grenade you can throw that exposes the cloakers and deals a little damage aswell :-P

necrofobic
04-12-2013, 06:03 AM
i refuse to go cloak.. i went blur and im having much more fun, sure i eat alot of lead in my back but atleast i have time to spin around and kill em with the back dmg perk

trip
04-12-2013, 06:23 AM
lol u guys that complain about pvp are noobs first off it should never be balanced second pvp is hardcore it shouldnt be easy at all if it was it wouldnt be fun at all it would be more boring then pve is and rlly u have to complain about how some1 plays the game anyways if u have a hd tv with high resolution u can clearly see that the cloak users have hard to see out lines on the cloaks kinda giving them away :mad::confused: the blur ego is my fav

Mechman
04-12-2013, 07:40 AM
Would be good if there was a paint grenade you can throw that exposes the cloakers and deals a little damage aswell :-P
I would be great if there were a perk you could use that would show anyone cloaked out to ...oh.... 30 meters....
Hmm... there already is.

I ended up 'joining' the cloak/shotgun users, but tonight I think I'll try a different setup with Decoy and Sensor Sweep to see how well it works.

MosesOfWar
04-12-2013, 08:01 AM
I would be great if there were a perk you could use that would show anyone cloaked out to ...oh.... 30 meters....
Hmm... there already is.

I ended up 'joining' the cloak/shotgun users, but tonight I think I'll try a different setup with Decoy and Sensor Sweep to see how well it works.

Check your mini-map after use; most people that complain that "it doesn't reveal anyone" is because they aren't look at their mini-map for extra red dots. Decoy and Defensive perks negate the massive damage bonus of a Cloak/Shotgun.. And you can teleport.

In any case, I see more people using Overcharge + Pump shotgun than I see Cloak+Shotgun now-a-days (And these people have the audacity to complain about shotgun+Cloak.. Really? 30% constant boost to your damage and that doesn't require going invisible and your complaining about Cloak... Think about that for a second) due to the hard counters with Decoy becoming a little more prevelant. Cloak and Shotguns aren't OP'd, but they do present a challenge to Overcharge users (the game is designed this way...)

If you don't like Cloak+Shotgun, pick what counters it (Decoy+Defense+Infector/BMG). I have more trouble with Blur users but Glass Cannon cloak users eat a Grenade at my feet while I teleport, expose them, Cankor, then BMG myself while they run around DoT'd, trying to reload and I heal myself. I don't complain about Blur giving my setup trouble, because I understand that Blur users hold an advantage over me using Decoy (the game is designed this way.. once again). If you are stubborn and refuse to play the game with the rules presented to you and how the game is designed, don't complain about something being overpowered. My analogy is always, if you play a RPG and you want to cast spells, stop rolling a Warrior and Pick a Wizard; stop trying to change the rules so a Warrior can cast spells.

Boss Waters
04-12-2013, 08:06 AM
Like I said, I know its all pipedreams, but a guy can dream, no?,

Would it be so terrible for everyone to have balanced weapons in pvp and not be able to bring in thier own op weapons? It would make sure everything was fair and up to skill alone. If not,then the matchmaking system needs an o9verhaul to include the weapons people are using into account along with player stats.

Coming from a (attempt at being) non-elitist/******* perspective.
Everyone has access to the same guns. No gun is OP. They all function as intended.
Also,
A) No.
B) No. Unless they implemented some kind of "core" game mode or something where it is literally all guns and no powers. But probably not.
C) I was under the impression aim assist is off for PvP?
For the record, I use an AR as my primary weapon and I die to shotguns all the time.

mmproc4619
04-12-2013, 08:15 AM
there is bio grenades snare em drop their cloak and reduce their movement speed also nano efects cancel cloak.

Cyripax NeoPrime
04-14-2013, 08:50 PM
lol u guys that complain about pvp are noobs first off it should never be balanced second pvp is hardcore it shouldnt be easy at all if it was it wouldnt be fun at all it would be more boring then pve is and rlly u have to complain about how some1 plays the game anyways if u have a hd tv with high resolution u can clearly see that the cloak users have hard to see out lines on the cloaks kinda giving them away :mad::confused: the blur ego is my fav
As Ive already said I dont play much pvp, so its meh for me. Ive seen alot of ppl complaining on here about it though, and I popped in to try it out and to my suprise they were right, I got hit with swarms of ppl using that exact combo.

2nd I agree pvp should not be easy, it 100% should.not be easy and should be a show of player skill so we can see whos the best, which is why if your using cloak with shotgun, you should have an asterisk next to your name because your hardly the best. Your just houdini-ing everyone and shooting em right in their face b4 they see you. If these guys really had some skill, they wouldnt be afraid to man up and get a gun that doesnt one shot ppl if they decide to play invisible. And I wont JOIN them and use the same combo, because my pride is above getting the best at something by using the most slimey tactic available
... Id be embarrased to say im good at pvp because no one can see me at all. It totally blows my mind. Like really buddy, you proud of what your doing? You feel good about that? Want me to pat you on back and give you a medal and say job well done? Scared of losing your spot on the leaderboard?, then drop that combo and show some real skill cos all cloak combined with shotgun does is make it cakewalk easy for you.

Dobranoc
04-14-2013, 09:07 PM
As Ive already said I dont play much pvp, so its meh for me. Ive seen alot of ppl complaining on here about it though, and I popped in to try it out and to my suprise they were right, I got hit with swarms of ppl using that exact combo.

2nd I agree pvp should not be easy, it 100% should.not be easy and should be a show of player skill so we can see whos the best, which is why if your using cloak with shotgun, you should have an asterisk next to your name because your hardly the best. Your just houdini-ing everyone and shooting em right in their face b4 they see you. If these guys really had some skill, they wouldnt be afraid to man up and get a gun that doesnt one shot ppl if they decide to play invisible. And I wont JOIN them and use the same combo, because my pride is above getting the best at something by using the most slimey tactic available
... Id be embarrased to say im good at pvp because no one can see me at all. It totally blows my mind. Like really buddy, you proud of what your doing? You feel good about that? Want me to pat you on back and give you a medal and say job well done? Scared of losing your spot on the leaderboard?, then drop that combo and show some real skill cos all cloak combined with shotgun does is make it cakewalk easy for you.

lol, like your response to Trip. I wouldn't say its the most slimey tactic, but i can understand where you are coming from. :-p

Cyripax NeoPrime
04-14-2013, 09:13 PM
Its ok though everyone. I knew the minute I posted this I was going to get hell. the fact is you probly would never have caught me complaining about much in this game at all as its so insanely great(which means im not the one whos complaining about EVERY LITTLE THING as someone put it....just 1 thing) and I know as ive said in countless posts to the complainers here on the forums that not EVERYTHING in EVERYGAME can be for EVERYONE.and I also know that ill give pvp in this game more chances inn the future. this is probly my favorite game ever besides borderlands, which is why I just was a.little upset that that combo was ruining my fun with pvp in this game and making me rather play pvp in call of duty(which is frikkin ******ed because call of duty sucks) im even mad I actually own cod, but at some.point it had some allure to it I guess,lol. Battlefield was much better,

I dont care about the 1 guy in a match using this combo...its when you have a whole team of guys that jump into pvp and get in cahouts and ALL use it then you have a whole team of invisible shotguns all seeking you out making it near impossible to see anyone to shoot, and give you no chance at all of not getting 1shot,

but newayz...thanks for all the feedback whether nice or a**holish, I got yall. Everyone has thier own style. I know theres ways to counter it... And as for the ab and c.....if youd read my whole post youd know I said it was all just opinion and I knew it would never happen. Just contributing ideas to the ppl who actually got me writing this thread. I think this will be my last visit to this thread, and am going to go back and enjoy my game.

For tthe lov of god mods, close this thread before a votan war breaks out.

Honved
04-15-2013, 07:45 AM
Blur is better or equal to cloak currently. These are the two egos that I use. Next I'm going overcharge because the damage increase will be insane with some of my modded bolt actions and lmgs. People need to stop hating on cloak, it has the most draw backs by far with a limited bonus.

Naicone
04-15-2013, 08:03 AM
1.Movement speed decrease slightly when cloaked.
2.And increase everyone HP(x2 or more), so that you wont get oneshotted and might be able to get to cover or use your own Ego ability to kill them.

With increased HP it would depend more on skills and tactics.

Honved
04-15-2013, 08:53 AM
1.Movement speed decrease slightly when cloaked.
2.And increase everyone HP(x2 or more), so that you wont get oneshotted and might be able to get to cover or use your own Ego ability to kill them.

With increased HP it would depend more on skills and tactics.

If movement speed is decreased duration of cloak will have to be increased.

Hawke
04-15-2013, 09:06 AM
If movement speed is decreased duration of cloak will have to be increased.

Why?

Use a longer ranged weapon or use the skill tactically.

Honved
04-15-2013, 09:10 AM
Why?

Use a longer ranged weapon or use the skill tactically.

Troll is noob ^ I don't use this ego for offensive, I use it for getting out of ambushes which is harder when the overcharged enemy with explosives and shotty's has a better chance of hitting me since my ego now has a movement nerf along with all of it's draw backs. Oh and what exactly is longer range then lmg/sniper? Please enlighten me of what weapons you assumed I commonly use.

Hawke
04-15-2013, 09:18 AM
How on earth am I a noob?

You can still use it defensively or offensively,, you go invisible.

Longer ranged weapons... SMG, Assault Rifle?


Out right calling me a troll is a sure sign of ... well, I'll let you think of the negatives. Instead of name calling, let's chat.

Honved
04-15-2013, 09:26 AM
How on earth am I a noob?

You can still use it defensively or offensively,, you go invisible.

Longer ranged weapons... SMG, Assault Rifle?


Out right calling me a troll is a sure sign of ... well, I'll let you think of the negatives. Instead of name calling, let's chat.

Well any condescending tone (like that of your first reply) put's me off instantly. I'm trying to point out that there are so many disadvantages to cloak that is unique to it that nerfing it more would be making it nearly pointless to play. Cloak users are hard to come by (at least for me.) because everyone is starting to realize how much overcharge and blur out play cloak in pvp. We have the advantage on getting the drop, however if we're nerfed on speed our defensive reasons for using it is gone. I sprint while cloaked to get out of combat and try to find cover. However with the amount of detonators I see over chargers using all they'll have to do is spam it quickly to knock me out of cloak and finish me off. They by forcing me as a cloaker to use it almost exclusively for offensive purposes. It's bad enough that we have so many draw backs. If it gets nerfed I'll push to have the current draw backs adopted to all the other ego's.

Hawke
04-15-2013, 09:43 AM
I apologize if you thought I was being condescending, I honestly was not. Right now you dont need to use the cloak tactically, you just cloak, sprint around ,find target, kill target.

Not "nerfing it" to 35% slower, but a normal walk speed but 10% slower sprint, should be more than adequate to keep the shotgun in the *** at bay for a bit. Unless it is used tactically. .i.e hiding around boxes or near an entrance and striking quickly.

In any case.. meant no harm in my original statement.

I personally use explosives and cloak. I am down to 36 second refresh time (almost 31 second cooldown) and I have a blast. If they slowed me down, I will still use explosives or switch to a SMG or AR.

BetaChapel
04-15-2013, 10:03 AM
They dont need to really do any of that besides just a REAL weapon balance patch.
Balance weapons, balance out TTK and with the consistency of the weapons, and everyone can use what they want.

By making PVP in a game like this, they opened up a pretty bad can of worms with all the possibilities of weapons you can use. borderlands didnt even do that with its random weapon drops for that reason (hard to balance) sure they could do it (and i hope they do some day) but its going to be tough with randomized stats/drops on weapons.

Honved
04-15-2013, 01:06 PM
I apologize if you thought I was being condescending, I honestly was not. Right now you dont need to use the cloak tactically, you just cloak, sprint around ,find target, kill target.

Not "nerfing it" to 35% slower, but a normal walk speed but 10% slower sprint, should be more than adequate to keep the shotgun in the *** at bay for a bit. Unless it is used tactically. .i.e hiding around boxes or near an entrance and striking quickly.

In any case.. meant no harm in my original statement.

I personally use explosives and cloak. I am down to 36 second refresh time (almost 31 second cooldown) and I have a blast. If they slowed me down, I will still use explosives or switch to a SMG or AR.

I have a similar load out in case of blur clan opponents, I highly recommend preparedness if you don't already have it. Still disagree with the movement speed.

Honved
04-15-2013, 01:08 PM
They dont need to really do any of that besides just a REAL weapon balance patch.
Balance weapons, balance out TTK and with the consistency of the weapons, and everyone can use what they want.

By making PVP in a game like this, they opened up a pretty bad can of worms with all the possibilities of weapons you can use. borderlands didnt even do that with its random weapon drops for that reason (hard to balance) sure they could do it (and i hope they do some day) but its going to be tough with randomized stats/drops on weapons.

Awful idea, why play with perks and powers then? Why not have another plain cookie cutter shooter.

Stryfe
04-18-2013, 11:50 AM
(snip)... Cloak users are hard to come by (at least for me.) because everyone is starting to realize how much overcharge and blur out play cloak in pvp...

Hey mate - seen you around the other forums, and I appreciated your discussions with others and the points you make.

Anyway, that is not the case for PC PvP. I wish someone would get creative and use one of the other Ego powers!
As it stands, we have two main options: shotgun+cloak vs. shotgun+cloak counter build.

On the PC - if you think there is much more than that, then what game have you been playing? I mean, we have the illusion of options, but only two are effective...

I run counter builds that use overpower, defensive perks, rear guard, rocket launcher/grenade/nano effects, etc, and I can knock out a cloaker or two here or there, but then there are the 7 that come behind them and often at once that are the problem.

Worth noting, the best counters I've used so far is watching your team's back, and having them do the same :D

The reason why all this becomes obnoxious, is that shadow Wars often have long wait times, making them a non-option (depends on timing), and quick matches are dominated by cloak, cloak, and more cloak.

By no means do I believe that simple nerfing is the answer, I would just like to get in on some more dynamic and engaging PvP than dodge the shotgun-cloakers :D Then again, maybe defiance PvP is just doomed to this, and I should go play some BF or CoD or something :)

MosesOfWar
04-18-2013, 12:40 PM
Hey mate - seen you around the other forums, and I appreciated your discussions with others and the points you make.

Anyway, that is not the case for PC PvP. I wish someone would get creative and use one of the other Ego powers!
As it stands, we have two main options: shotgun+cloak vs. shotgun+cloak counter build.

On the PC - if you think there is much more than that, then what game have you been playing? I mean, we have the illusion of options, but only two are effective...

I run counter builds that use overpower, defensive perks, rear guard, rocket launcher/grenade/nano effects, etc, and I can knock out a cloaker or two here or there, but then there are the 7 that come behind them and often at once that are the problem.

Worth noting, the best counters I've used so far is watching your team's back, and having them do the same :D

The reason why all this becomes obnoxious, is that shadow Wars often have long wait times, making them a non-option (depends on timing), and quick matches are dominated by cloak, cloak, and more cloak.

By no means do I believe that simple nerfing is the answer, I would just like to get in on some more dynamic and engaging PvP than dodge the shotgun-cloakers :D Then again, maybe defiance PvP is just doomed to this, and I should go play some BF or CoD or something :)

The console meta may be evolving faster than that on PC; give it time, it will come. The game is complicated and Cloak/SG is a very early game build and easy to prey on lower EGOs. Late game builds are easily outshining SG/Cloak builds on 360. Maybe its the xbl community.. I'm not sure.

Stryfe
04-18-2013, 01:15 PM
Blur is better or equal to cloak currently. These are the two egos that I use. Next I'm going overcharge because the damage increase will be insane with some of my modded bolt actions and lmgs. People need to stop hating on cloak, it has the most draw backs by far with a limited bonus.

While I have appreciated your feedback on a lot of forum posts, I definitely disagree with you here. Not about blur, and it's not even about hating cloak.

I just wanted to poke a hole in your argument and say if "having the most draw-backs" was even an issue, then I'd doubt you'd see the majority of PC players use it in PvP (and I know you're not on PC).

If the draw-backs were remotely balanced with the benefits, sure, but as it stands, the majority of players on PC use cloak in PvP, rendering the notion that draw-backs somehow balance it as inert.

Right now it's no contest. I see Full teams full of cloakers. Game after game, majority population using cloak (and surprise, shotgun).

From a gamer and hardcore PvP'er for many years perspective, I just crave dynamics and variety, and frankly, playing shot-gunner-cloaker whack-a-mole is getting boring.

What makes PvP fun in any game is that humans are infinitely more crafty and creative than even the best AI.

When we seemingly have so many options, and the majority of players flock to the same lackluster tricks, it is redundant, and the game dies a little.

But then again, it's not like this whole concept is new to MMO's or gaming in general :D

My point: the benefits grossly outweigh the draw-backs, thus, castrating your reasoning and argument there :)

EnabrimGFC
04-18-2013, 02:42 PM
Adding my preference here, in case an enthusiastic Dev stumbles by:

Reduce movement speed whilst Cloaked by 33% but otherwise keep as it is.

Makes use of Cloak and close weapons more tactical and in-character, without being a total nerf.

Nice suggestion.

Honved
04-18-2013, 03:10 PM
While I have appreciated your feedback on a lot of forum posts, I definitely disagree with you here. Not about blur, and it's not even about hating cloak.

I just wanted to poke a hole in your argument and say if "having the most draw-backs" was even an issue, then I'd doubt you'd see the majority of PC players use it in PvP (and I know you're not on PC).

If the draw-backs were remotely balanced with the benefits, sure, but as it stands, the majority of players on PC use cloak in PvP, rendering the notion that draw-backs somehow balance it as inert.

Right now it's no contest. I see Full teams full of cloakers. Game after game, majority population using cloak (and surprise, shotgun).

From a gamer and hardcore PvP'er for many years perspective, I just crave dynamics and variety, and frankly, playing shot-gunner-cloaker whack-a-mole is getting boring.

What makes PvP fun in any game is that humans are infinitely more crafty and creative than even the best AI.

When we seemingly have so many options, and the majority of players flock to the same lackluster tricks, it is redundant, and the game dies a little.

But then again, it's not like this whole concept is new to MMO's or gaming in general :D

My point: the benefits grossly outweigh the draw-backs, thus, castrating your reasoning and argument there :)

We both know that I'll disagree, however my heart does go out to pc users because that is a bit rough and why I want the creation of a motion sweeper that shows enemy movement in a 10-20 meter radius. It shouldn't uncloak the enemy but should display them on the minimap.

My biggest problem with the pvp forums is the majority cry for nerfs instead of new content. If you take that instead of a grenade you'll be set. Hell I'd take that for my cloak class because I snipe and the ones that usually make it to me are cloak users.

Nerfing the speed is an awful idea, if they do then there is no point in me playing cloak as I use it to escape ambushes. So the enemy will see me cloak and start spraying knowing that I can't get behind cover quick enough (in shadow war) and I get ker dead. Might as well just go full cannon with overcharge.

Stryfe
04-18-2013, 03:39 PM
We both know that I'll disagree, however my heart does go out to pc users because that is a bit rough and why I want the creation of a motion sweeper that shows enemy movement in a 10-20 meter radius. It shouldn't uncloak the enemy but should display them on the minimap.

My biggest problem with the pvp forums is the majority cry for nerfs instead of new content. If you take that instead of a grenade you'll be set. Hell I'd take that for my cloak class because I snipe and the ones that usually make it to me are cloak users.

Nerfing the speed is an awful idea, if they do then there is no point in me playing cloak as I use it to escape ambushes. So the enemy will see me cloak and start spraying knowing that I can't get behind cover quick enough (in shadow war) and I get ker dead. Might as well just go full cannon with overcharge.

Disagree? Sure, were mature adults, we can disagree through intelligent discourse, but you didn't provide any evidence or reasoning as to why you disagree or any reasoning to back it up. Bummer. :)

Know that I am not crying for a nerf, or even game changes. I'd just prefer to see the capability of what PvP in this game could be... to be elevated

In regards to what you just said, For shadow wars, cloak+shottie aren't as bad because there is more room to breathe, giving more options, but I still see more cloak+shotgun jumping beans than anything else. I would do shadow wars exclusively for the sole reason of less cloak+shot users/diminished effectiveness, but the que times are often too long to play.

On the much smaller quick matches, there is a reason why cloak+shotgun builds are primarily in use: because they dominate with minimal effort and skill, and are suitable to the fast-paced cluster-bangs of players. [B]I don't blame players for exploiting an easy system, and yes, I have the same options, I just don't want to be part of the nuisance, and cloaking has never been my gaming style. I'd rather players see me when I put a bullet in their skull. Problem is, while sometimes effective, I feel like the counters and alternatives are not as powerful as what I'm trying to counter.

Like I said, I would just like to see and be able to use more variety, and like any game, you have to adapt to what is, not what you necessarily want.

I feel like most people are barking up the wrong tree, and maybe we should just PvP elsewhere if we don't feel like playing a game of kill the invisible men.

Honved
04-18-2013, 03:51 PM
Disagree? Sure, were mature adults, we can disagree through intelligent discourse, but you didn't provide any evidence or reasoning as to why you disagree or any reasoning to back it up. Bummer. :)

In regards to what you just said, For shadow wars, cloak+shottie aren't as bad because there is more room to breathe, giving more options, but I still see more cloak+shotgun jumping beans than anything else. I would do shadow wars exclusively for the sole reason of less cloak+shot users/diminished effectiveness, but the que times are often too long to play.

On the much smaller quick matches, there is a reason why cloak+shotgun builds are primarily in use: because they dominate with minimal effort and skill, and are suitable to the fast-paced cluster-bangs of players. I don't blame players for exploiting an easy system, and yes, I have the same options, I just don't want to be part of the nuisance, and cloaking has never been my gaming style. I'd rather players see me when I put a bullet in their skull. Problem is, while sometimes effective, I feel like the counters and alternatives are not as powerful as what I'm trying to counter.

Like I said, I would just like to see and be able to use more variety, and like any game, you have to adapt to what is, not what you necessarily want.

I feel like most people are barking up the wrong tree, and maybe we should just PvP elsewhere if we don't feel like playing a game of kill the invisible men.

I agree, pvp gets stale without any diversity. My reasoning with cloak, while it does enjoy a tactically exploitable advantage over the others it has it's draw backs.

Being shot, dot, shooting, making a melee attack, throwing a grenade reveals the cloaked player. Being struck by a melee attack, an attack that stagers, some nano effects, and a hit that does enough damage immediately cancels cloak.

With the exception of sucker punch cloak's damage buffs and defense buffs are some of the most restrictive. (i.e. crouching and has to be fully cloaked.)

It also has a hard counter, decoy with sensor sweep, I understand that many people don't wish to use an ego simply to counter another player but no other ego has a hard counter.

It also has drawbacks in pve, I've noticed that npcs still magically know where you are when they throw grenades, plus interacting with the environment cancels the power.

However if this is such a big issue I propose something, instead of nerfing cloak I'd like to pay homage to killzone. Instead of invisibility make us look exactly the enemy, even on the minimap but the cross hairs go red.

Stryfe
04-19-2013, 11:50 AM
Ok, I had this long response posted, but the computer monster just ate it. :(

The real problem isn't cloak, it's the weapons. Why use anything else when the spread, radius, lack of aiming and skill required of shotguns and explosives makes it super easy. I don't blame people for exploiting this.

Point is, in the bigger picture of PvP, when the matches are dominated by one weapon type, methinks your weapon system is broke. I mean, in other good games, AR's, SMG's, pistols, etc. are right on par with explosives and shotguns in terms of viability and effectiveness.

As it stands now though, the radius, spread, damage, and easy-mode nature of the weapons renders the majority of other options ineffective or downright obsolete. Again, I don't blame anyone for taking the easy route.

Worth noting, I also feel like a lot of people who complain about this stuff just haven't given themselves the chance to get better at defiance PvP. Even with the raw derp power and lack of skill required for some of the weapons and abilities, it still takes time and practice to learn the game mechanics and use them well.