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View Full Version : without social interaction this game will die.



hexxman
04-12-2013, 08:59 AM
Well ive been playing since the day after launch, and i havent had one word said to me in chat, or even seen one word being said in chat period. if you ned help with a mission you cannot get any. also you cant seem to resize the chat window or make it permmanent anyway. no group button or LFG functionality. How does a game built around the story of many diffeent races getting along, going to exist if the society youre building cant socialize? Im sorry but this just isnt working out, i wish I had my purchase price back, already. gret gameplay but a huge mistake with ty socialization issues. Multiplayer is a big part of MMPORG , this seems to have been missed. My apologies if anyone thinks this is too harsh"].:mad:

Kommissar Kaede
04-12-2013, 09:07 AM
Don't encounters scale to having more people present? Effectively making it just as difficult to solo as well as to group?

It seems to me the game is built around ad hoc "grouping" (players naturally finding each other in the wilderness), as well as a stricter reliance on voice chat (either with in-game comms or 3rd party solutions).

The TPS style of play definitely supports voice over text though.

Shave
04-12-2013, 09:15 AM
I agree 100% with hexxman. This game needs socializing badly. Its basically a singleplayer MMO atm :|

Kitterfly
04-12-2013, 09:37 AM
Well ive been playing since the day after launch, and i havent had one word said to me in chat, or even seen one word being said in chat period. if you ned help with a mission you cannot get any. also you cant seem to resize the chat window or make it permmanent anyway. no group button or LFG functionality. How does a game built around the story of many diffeent races getting along, going to exist if the society youre building cant socialize? Im sorry but this just isnt working out, i wish I had my purchase price back, already. gret gameplay but a huge mistake with ty socialization issues. Multiplayer is a big part of MMPORG , this seems to have been missed. My apologies if anyone thinks this is too harsh"].:mad:

I have not spoken with a single player since beginning. It is pretty bad.

Quite frankly, I'm getting to the point where I want to call this whole game a massively online fail. It is disappointing because it has some really cool possibilities and I LOVE that the shooting mechanics actually aren't half-bad for an MMO.

However, it basically lacks everything else.

hexxman
04-12-2013, 09:40 AM
agreed, I adtually feel like the developers never played a real MMO before. this is more like a single player game in a persistant world. Which by no means is a MMO.

routalouk
04-12-2013, 09:41 AM
i try to start convos and what not but no one else joins in, and during arkfalls i tend to try and explain how it's done to people that're just doing the opposite of what needs to be done

Skeety
04-12-2013, 09:43 AM
I agree 100% with hexxman. This game needs socializing badly. Its basically a singleplayer MMO atm :|
I have voice enabled (but my mic turned off until time to use it, got a switch on the mic). But I've not heard even one person speaking on it. I guess they only make noise in PvP, and useless noise at that. No one has responded to my responses to their requests for info in typed chat either. Since the game started. And I have an active topic looking for someone to do Something Wicked with, but no one is reading it. It would surprise me if anyone wanted to group. Not a very social MMO! Lots and lots of complainers and boasters on the forums, and I think I might recognize them from other games, but no help just a lot of bad attitudes. I suppose MMO itself is dead, only family and close friends are friendly with other players in just about any game now. If it has to be that way then they need to make the game a little easier to do without having to be grouped sometimes.

EmptyOwl
04-12-2013, 09:47 AM
I actually saw someone ask a question about being able to ride in your car at the San Fran fast travel, answered, found you actually can if grouped, and grouped we did a mission. It was fun, though clumsy communication. Really, chat seems so simple to add, though maybe it isn't?

For the console users they could add canned text like DCUO had for the PS3 (as well as fleshing out the chat).

Kitterfly
04-12-2013, 09:48 AM
I have voice enabled (but my mic turned off until time to use it, got a switch on the mic). But I've not heard even one person speaking on it. I guess they only make noise in PvP, and useless noise at that. No one has responded to my responses to their requests for info in typed chat either. Since the game started. And I have an active topic looking for someone to do Something Wicked with, but no one is reading it. It would surprise me if anyone wanted to group. Not a very social MMO! Lots and lots of complainers and boasters on the forums, and I think I might recognize them from other games, but no help just a lot of bad attitudes. I suppose MMO itself is dead, only family and close friends are friendly with other players in just about any game now. If it has to be that way then they need to make the game a little easier to do without having to be grouped sometimes.

Problem isn't the genre, it's just terrible game design. They made this for the consoles initially, hence why the heavy focus on voice which people tend to not use on the PC.

There is also a severe lack of emphasis on people needing to come together. It encourages random encounters but does nothing to encourage continued relationships. What will happen is this game will die off rapidly and you'll be left with a niche group and THEN you'll have your communication. -_-

hugdealer
04-12-2013, 09:48 AM
i've had about 30% good interaction with social stuff, random people.
but 70% was either bad or mostly just non existent.

someone grouped randomly with me yesterday and he was using voice chat in the group.
was pretty cool, but there's no push to talk button which makes it kind of meh overall.

the main problem is that text is only on the screen for 1 line, then it vanishes into the
full chat box. nobody has the full chat open.
maybe 1 out of every 5 co op missions i do, someone will reply to me saying hey whats up everyone?

Reiter
04-12-2013, 09:59 AM
FFS, if you are crying about no community but came to the game solo without real world people following you hung out with in another game....OF COURSE ITS LONELY!!! If you brought friends, who cares, but if you didn't have friends and can't find them...welcome to the world of gaming since 2005. Get used to it. Games are being developed for the solo player, been seeing it more and more often to the point I don't even bother looking to group with people anymore (its only the ones whining about no one to hang out with, but who wants to hang out with whiners?)

Recap from above paragraph: Don't expect to make new friends, but if you bring old ones from another game...problem solved.

seros
04-12-2013, 10:05 AM
At the very least couldn't the cut scenes in co-ops include the other players you'r with? I mean i know i didn't run over and open the exhaust fans why is it showing i did lol..

Kitterfly
04-12-2013, 10:05 AM
FFS, if you are crying about no community but came to the game solo without real world people following you hung out with in another game....OF COURSE ITS LONELY!!! If you brought friends, who cares, but if you didn't have friends and can't find them...welcome to the world of gaming since 2005. Get used to it. Games are being developed for the solo player, been seeing it more and more often to the point I don't even bother looking to group with people anymore (its only the ones whining about no one to hang out with, but who wants to hang out with whiners?)

Recap from above paragraph: Don't expect to make new friends, but if you bring old ones from another game...problem solved.

In other words, more talk out his behind.

He conceded. Take from this pointless paragraph that the social element is broken, that is all.

sbrite10
04-12-2013, 10:11 AM
I love the gameplay.Essentially no social Interaction whatsoever.Oh sure people will jump in and help with a fight if it looks like you need it and thats fantastic.Everyone seems to be cool but with no "real" chat system in game like a normal MMO I feel all alone in the whole wide world lol.Its such a basic concept and totally would make this game awsome.Just that one thing Trion please.

hugdealer
04-12-2013, 10:15 AM
i don't think the op is talking about making new friends in the same way one does in 'real life'.
and i couldn't disagree more that you have to bring real life friends to have any in games.
maybe you're approaching others in the wrong way. hence opening up a body of text with "FFS".

with mmo's it's cool to be able to take a break somewhere, and just chat with some randoms.
sometimes it's been a long day and you've had a few beers and want to ramble or joke around in game.
this is something that can never happen with the chat ui as it currently is.
it's too easy to miss text.

Reiter, you're right that games are made for solo play these days, but games are made one way and often played another. you seem very young and looking at things in a short sighted manor.
a community is integral to any mmo, not just for meeting random online buddies in game.

a good example is not being able to private message someone.
i found items i wanted to trade for the other day on another forum,
so i added the guy in game. he accepted, and i teleported to him and
tried to start talking. but he must not have seen it due to the chat window.
so i just couldn't trade with him. all i could do was jump around him hoping
he figured it out.

Kroktar
04-12-2013, 10:17 AM
+1...The only social feature are open mics...and i frakking hate them....

sbrite10
04-12-2013, 10:18 AM
FFS, if you are crying about no community but came to the game solo without real world people following you hung out with in another game....OF COURSE ITS LONELY!!! If you brought friends, who cares, but if you didn't have friends and can't find them...welcome to the world of gaming since 2005. Get used to it. Games are being developed for the solo player, been seeing it more and more often to the point I don't even bother looking to group with people anymore (its only the ones whining about no one to hang out with, but who wants to hang out with whiners?)



Recap from above paragraph: Don't expect to make new friends, but if you bring old ones from another game...problem solved.


This is about the dumbest response to a post in any forum Ive ever heard.How about this.None of the prople I play with in other MMO's want to play Defiance because the chat system is nonexistant.I get into every other MMO out there with the expectation of making new friends in game using the chat system.Which is precisely how MMO's are supposed to work.I wouldnt join a knucklehead with your attitude in any game much less defiance.Its not whineing to state your opinion about something that every MMO has but this one.

hexxman
04-12-2013, 10:18 AM
hnot talking about making freinds, im talking about in game chat, about helping out people with missions, about trading items or giving advice etc.. evidently you have never groupe with somone you werent friends with ahead of time. Personally i am in clans that span the globe , i have online friends who only play FPS and I have Online friends who only play MMO's, My FPS friends would say the game has too much to do between shooting, and my MMO freinds would say theres not enough to do between shooting. when someone comes upon a part in game thatthey are having a hrd times with, and cannot get help eventually they wil leave thegame and that means you lose casual players, and thats the death knell for a game. hard core gamers dont spread the money around like casual gamers do. Add in the fact that trion is trying to get 3 games off the ground at the same time, ( this, Warframe and another one, ) I also play warframe and its obvious the focus is on that at the moment. I sick of wasting time investing my
money and time into a game only to have it fail almost immediately.

Quipwicked
04-12-2013, 10:20 AM
What this game needs is an area players can go and sell items by shouting/advertising. As well as some mini games for shooting and what not. Like co-op mini games, Trion needs to lax on the lore and give players a little bit of nonsensical lighthearted fun.....is there even a duel option?? That would be fun.

Skeety
04-12-2013, 10:21 AM
Voice com could be really good for the game. But no PTT! No one wants to listen to constant noise not having to do with group goals. Just causes headaches, open mics are not tolerated on VC like Vent or TeamSpeak or Mumble. I just took a moment to go google and I couldn't find anything for a computer mic external PTT switch! Not any wired for computers like just a simple inline push to talk switch (kind of like a foot switch but for computer mics). I guess they haven't been needed until now! Oh, and @Reiter yeah it's sad, seems childish to me that people are so stand offish towards people they haven't even had a chance to get to know. I guess they're afraid even in games of meeting new people who might become friends. Or afraid of those who would just harass them. :\

Auldrek
04-12-2013, 10:21 AM
I agree. I made a similar post. We need chat fixed asap. I want an open box on my screen with tabs for each chat channel and I want the chat to be persistent. 100 lines per tab.
The problem is this game is designed around the console user but it is the PC user that makes an online game truly thrive. Sorry consolers. I don't use my console when I want to chat. I go on to shoot stuff for a few hours. The thing is by giving these tools to the PC user we do create a better community for the console player too if they ever wish to interact with it (even tho that is difficult without a txt to speech pgm) ah well

hexxman
04-12-2013, 10:22 AM
heck id settle for having your character actually open thie mouths and talk.

Statyomota
04-12-2013, 10:31 AM
Please fix the chat I have played these games for years starting with Motor City online then going to Earth and Beyond, EVE,WOW and others and this is sorry. Please at least give us a hint that we are being heard .

alienoid
04-12-2013, 10:44 AM
I find the ad hoc grouping pretty fine. No LFG, no boring guys talking politics in chat, no kill steal, etc.
Granted, the chat is meh because of consoles sharing the same UI though I talk often with people asking for tips at Top Notch, Muir and E-Rep camp, which are the natural hub-ish places.
A proper hub place would probably bring up more social interactions, no doubt.
That being said, I won't see the game dying because of its chat window. Seriously, if one is enjoying the gameplay, he most likely won't leave only because of a messy chat window (which gonna be improved monday or tuesday anyways) ;)

Boss Waters
04-12-2013, 10:48 AM
Well ive been playing since the day after launch, and i havent had one word said to me in chat, or even seen one word being said in chat period. if you ned help with a mission you cannot get any. also you cant seem to resize the chat window or make it permmanent anyway. no group button or LFG functionality. How does a game built around the story of many diffeent races getting along, going to exist if the society youre building cant socialize? Im sorry but this just isnt working out, i wish I had my purchase price back, already. gret gameplay but a huge mistake with ty socialization issues. Multiplayer is a big part of MMPORG , this seems to have been missed. My apologies if anyone thinks this is too harsh"].:mad:

This is the only REAL issue I have with this game. There's no user to user interaction. Sometimes the combat is kind of fast paced but even outside of that no one talks in general chat, rarely do people talk in co-op missions. No one EVER talks in PvP. Maybe the hidden chat box is partially to blame?

Skydive
04-12-2013, 01:37 PM
Trying to understand the OP, partially because I'm not in the same boat. I'll explain why later in the reply, but first; The real issue is the text chat system is bugged (and poorly designed) in a big way.

You may be wondering what the heck I'm talking about, well if you're part of a clan, you'll find the only person who can see your clan messages is yourself! No-one else in your clan can see it. Prior to the change before the made messages stick a bit longer in the chat window (if you can call it that) it was even harder to know what was being said without opening up another ui page blocking you from seeing what was happening in the world. Given the clan chat issue and the chat UI, it's no surprise people don't text chat!

The only times I seen someone chat in text is usually a thank you for reviving them or assisting them in a mission, a clan recruitment message or a silly question that could have been answered by doing just a little bit of research. The last two I personally have no intention of responding to.

I wouldn't say the game is designed without social interaction, there has been a number of times whilst I'm doing stuff I needed help from my clanmates. Namely when I am surprised by an extra mini boss mob in the open world. Even my clan mates being stuck with a problem, I had been able to jump in a help simply by going straight to friend. (which is an awesome feature). Why you can not go to clan mate is beyond me but that's not what we're here to talk about. However all this is possible because my clan uses an external voice chat system rather than the ALWAYS on voice one in game. My clan has twenty plus active members and there isn't a day that goes by that someone doesn't need help with something be it a story mission, event, co-op or pvp.

The game has the need for social interaction, but the problem is the tools to accomplish this interaction just isn't there or even up to standard. The text chat system is so poor that some people don't even notice it! During the beta (3) I spent a good couple of minutes just trying to find the chat UI!

The in-game voice system is awfully designed, if what my clan mate told me is true I'd probably want to physically shut up the little kid with gaffer tape that was screaming and noob-calling everyone in the pvp match he was in. (If it wasn't illegal I'd probably box him up and ship him off to some island filled with hungry cannibals) It took him a while to figure out how to mute the kid, but that experience immediately left a very bad impression of the in-game chat/voice system.

The good news is THION does seem to be responding to issues and bugs within the game and are on the surface trying to improve things, which for a lot of MMO players who never played any of their other games is a very BIG plus. Until they really sort out the chat system and voice system, it's hard to say the game lack social interaction within the game design, it's mainly the tools that is the problem

GoodysGood
04-12-2013, 02:08 PM
This is exactly what I was thinking as well. I don't even have a desire to play this game anymore because of lack of communication. This game has so much potential but it is being governed by the feel of being the only one out there.

Saraya
04-12-2013, 02:11 PM
Here's where the problem is :
The author and all the supporters claim a lack of 'social interaction,' yet only mention text communication - and specifically(whether they admit to it or not), they mean a global or region channel.

They have not one reason why a wide area chat would benefit the game, nor do they have any outlined proposals to the developers.


Let's look at what we have :

-Small or large window text communication a.k.a 'chat'
-Multiple channels to fit the scenario e.g. local(say), group, clan etc.
-A matchmaking system for PVE and PVP
-A 'Goto' system that instantly moves you to a friend, group member or specific instances

Everything in the game that requires or offers multiplayer activities, has a system in place to support it.

What the developers do need to address, is the broken guild chat and the voice communications.



They don't want people to stand around loitering, or shouting down a region chat channel with spam and commentary that's irrelevant to the game.

What they want is people to actually play the game - you can do that, right now, no limitations.

The sooner you realize the game is not a MMORPG, it's not Second Life or The Sims and it's not a haven for socialites, the better off you'll be.

Skeety
04-12-2013, 02:46 PM
The voice communications does need love. The PTT so people aren't getting annoyed and turning voice chat off. And there needs to be a way to easily address people not at the same quest area, so they can come help as a group. This isn't a RPG, but it isn't a single player game either. Not if they want money and to call it a MMO. It's supposed to be a mixture of MMO and TPS. What good are lots of players, how can it be a MMO, if can't talk to them unless standing right on top of each other? The sooner that's realized for the truth it is the better off all game things will be. Because you know what? If people need help but can't communicate it ingame then they logoff, and they're not feeling warm and fuzzy about that are they?

Dinova
04-12-2013, 02:50 PM
Somebody has to talk first, most cases i just randomly ask stuff or tell people. Talks get going and we get a nice chatty business going on.

Its better then the FF14 beta though, chat being floud 'OMG TERA SUX', 'lol this game copy wow', bla bla crap.

Reiaan
04-12-2013, 06:50 PM
I think if the chat window was increased in size then people could easily see what people say, but I think that the chat is area based, so if your in mount tram then only there can see and replay, so they would need to make a world chat.

Taaltos
04-12-2013, 06:51 PM
It was confirmed today, for the PC version the chat window will be scaleable and be able to be made permanent.

http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?33793-Live-Stream-teaser...more-map-Plus-Permachat-and-Scaleable-chat-confirmed.

TwwiX
04-12-2013, 07:39 PM
This, along with the horrendous, clutter of a cumbersome user interface, were two of the biggest concerns during the beta testing. This game, supposedly, is a co-op driven experience yet it does a very poor job at encouraging grouping and socializing with others. Plenty of suggestions were made during the testing phase on how to improve these aspects but Trion chose to ignore all of that feedback and retreat back into their dome of denial.

Now, every reviewer is pointing out these aspects and they have been mostly negative responses.

FizzyMyNizzy
04-12-2013, 07:41 PM
Well ive been playing since the day after launch, and i havent had one word said to me in chat, or even seen one word being said in chat period. if you ned help with a mission you cannot get any. also you cant seem to resize the chat window or make it permmanent anyway. no group button or LFG functionality. How does a game built around the story of many diffeent races getting along, going to exist if the society youre building cant socialize? Im sorry but this just isnt working out, i wish I had my purchase price back, already. gret gameplay but a huge mistake with ty socialization issues. Multiplayer is a big part of MMPORG , this seems to have been missed. My apologies if anyone thinks this is too harsh"].:mad:

join a guild/clan. and he game is solo able on the open world pve.

Nipper
04-12-2013, 07:59 PM
If you need someone to talk to or if anyone does. Come to a public teamspeak just for defiance. the address is ts3.mcdominion.net:9988 or if you have ts3 install ts3server://199.91.172.58?port=9988 just click it. There is no password feel free to make your own channels or even plant your clan there and use it for your clan.

Notorious Megan
04-12-2013, 09:06 PM
I hope they can really fix this with the next patch.

Yesterday I did an Arkfall that was unusually hard because there're so many people in the area, we manage to take that big bug down almost right before we ran out of time. I was so~ happy and I typed in chat, "this is a hard one... good job guys :)"...

There were literally 100 people there and not a single one of them said anything, ANYTHING... not even "dame I only got greens"... everyone just checked their inventory, collect scrips on the ground and left...

hexxman
04-14-2013, 06:20 AM
Ok if its not a MMORPG why is it advertised as such? fromt he devs to the website, interviews, posters etc. Are you saying they are lying? If i bought a ame claining to be a baseball game andwhen i got it home it was actually lacrosse, would that be ok? See heres the pont if this isnt an MMPORG then give me a refund and ill go away nice and quietly

Taaltos
04-14-2013, 06:32 AM
Ok if its not a MMORPG why is it advertised as such? fromt he devs to the website, interviews, posters etc. Are you saying they are lying? If i bought a ame claining to be a baseball game andwhen i got it home it was actually lacrosse, would that be ok? See heres the pont if this isnt an MMPORG then give me a refund and ill go away nice and quietly

"Defiance is a Third Person Shooter First, and MMO Second" First thing out of their mouths.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B82S0BbLvps

Lambchops
04-14-2013, 07:29 AM
The guys on the Trion livestream the other day did basically confirm that they are going to work on chat and acknowledge that it's a big problem.

I believe they talked about region chat and improvements to the chat box and things like that, so that was nice to hear. Obviously until we see it in the game it's an issue, but it's good to know that it's a high priority for them.

Regardless it's definitely a problem, particularly if they intend for this game to have lasting appeal. A big part of why MMO players can sometimes play one game for years is the social aspect. You remove that from the equation and that longevity is reduced greatly. It does seem like Trion is taking it seriously, so there is your silver lining for now.

Tribeca76
04-14-2013, 07:41 AM
FFS, if you are crying about no community but came to the game solo without real world people following you hung out with in another game....OF COURSE ITS LONELY!!! If you brought friends, who cares, but if you didn't have friends and can't find them...welcome to the world of gaming since 2005. Get used to it. Games are being developed for the solo player, been seeing it more and more often to the point I don't even bother looking to group with people anymore (its only the ones whining about no one to hang out with, but who wants to hang out with whiners?)

Recap from above paragraph: Don't expect to make new friends, but if you bring old ones from another game...problem solved.


Yet another fan boy that will destroy this game by saying everything is fine.

Vion Diamonds
04-14-2013, 07:49 AM
Well if you join a clan, then you can chat online anytime. I mean i'm the one guy who try's to talk, but I now just play and talk with my clan in xbox live parties. Most people do that, so they dont use the chat window.
I still love this epic game to death.

Merlinus
04-14-2013, 08:05 AM
is chat a problem? yes is it as big as everyone says? imo no i think theres a bigger issue, outside of co-op maps and arkfalls i honestly don't even see a point in grouping. i've never needed too and i've solo'ed all the missions just fine. so sure fix chat make the ui better but all in all i think what they need to do is focus more on making ppl want to group up for fun and run around doing missions and killing stuff. once they get that down and ppl start actually wanting to group up for fun then i think a better chat system needs to be in place. for this game anyway it seems more like your average player will be soloing then what? they get bored cause of no interaction with other players that often cept for seeing them run/drive by or shooting next to you which chat isn't really needed for those reasons.

but ya i don't get why ppl are like oh chat sucks i hate this game now screw you all, if chat is really the main thing keeping you from enjoying this game then maybe you should stop now. i would also suggest finding a clan/guild thats interested in grouping up all the time so you can get into groups with ppl you'll often play with and interact with. otherwise like i stated before your just running around with the other 75% of this community playing this game more as a solo game.

ps. i love this game playing solo or not and i honestly can't wait to see what more they come out with!

Fiancee
04-14-2013, 09:22 AM
Yep, there isnt any reason to join to Clan, whats really sad. Somekind of Clan-progression could do the trick I think.