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zerosum
04-12-2013, 09:24 AM
I have spent most of the game using LMGs (QQ saw nerf), so my experience with SMGs is very limited. I am interested in checking them out and I have a few questions.

What are all the SMG guns and how do they function?

Which SMG do you prefer? Would you suggest a particular mod for it?

Which SMG do you think is worst?

Thanks,
0

*EDIT*: It turns out most think that the Pulsars or Frontier Carbine seems to be the way to go. So, I am going to ask these follow up questions:

-How would you suggest modding a Pulsar or Frontier Carbine? What weapon bonuses or synergies are best on Pulsar or Front Carb?

-What perks/ego power would you say work well with the Pulsar or Frontier Carbine?

hugdealer
04-12-2013, 09:46 AM
full auto ones with a clip mod are nice for leveling.
find an ark you can solo, or hop in some co op's and it should level up fairly quick.

Reiter
04-12-2013, 09:59 AM
Anything with an 80 round clip and full auto is trash (think they are called Nomads). To much recoil, eats through ammo like a fat man at an all you can eat buffet. The slower full autos are nicer (I like the ones that look the real world Kriss Vector gun which shoots .45 caliber rounds), decent range and damage, usually about 40 round clip but with a clip mod can make it go higher then 50 and is decent in short bursts without the god awful donkey kick to the shoulder of the Nomads.

Demonsunder
04-12-2013, 10:02 AM
Stick with the LMG, find the SAW (happy pow farms vendor sell green ones) variant, It will still be good after nerf, it has a 400 base damage and is full auto, but is best fired in tight bursts or single shot.

EmptyOwl
04-12-2013, 10:02 AM
There is one that has a ROF 25, mod the mag and let fly! It is like a laser. Oh, and slot the Ammo Thief perk.

You get one called Diablo for some mission, it's type is good as well (I want to say it is the ROF 15 one).

zerosum
04-12-2013, 11:31 AM
full auto ones with a clip mod are nice for leveling.
find an ark you can solo, or hop in some co op's and it should level up fairly quick.
Odd. I thought that you couldn't get weapon XP in arks, becuase the mobs do not give normal XP either. I find co-op great for weapon XP though. I'm really not too concerned with how to level it though. What I am really wondering is what SMG is considered to be the most viable weapon.


Anything with an 80 round clip and full auto is trash (think they are called Nomads). To much recoil, eats through ammo like a fat man at an all you can eat buffet. The slower full autos are nicer (I like the ones that look the real world Kriss Vector gun which shoots .45 caliber rounds), decent range and damage, usually about 40 round clip but with a clip mod can make it go higher then 50 and is decent in short bursts without the god awful donkey kick to the shoulder of the Nomads.
Agreed, I didn't find the nomad to be very good.


Stick with the LMG, find the SAW (happy pow farms vendor sell green ones) variant, It will still be good after nerf, it has a 400 base damage and is full auto, but is best fired in tight bursts or single shot.
This remains to be seen, it could go either way. I really do hope that the nerf is slight. However, I am still interested in trying out SMG.


There is one that has a ROF 25, mod the mag and let fly! It is like a laser. Oh, and slot the Ammo Thief perk.

You get one called Diablo for some mission, it's type is good as well (I want to say it is the ROF 15 one).
I am using this now. I quite like it. I'll look into that perk. Thanks for the tip.


Are there any SMG experts out there that have detailed knowlege of the different types?

Ikagawa
04-12-2013, 11:33 AM
Odd. I thought that you couldn't get weapon XP in arks, becuase the mobs do not give normal XP either.

Weapon experience is based on damage done, not experience received for a kill.

zerosum
04-12-2013, 11:34 AM
Weapon experience is based on damage done, not experience received for a kill.
Agreed, but you can't get weapon xp for the damage done unless you can also get kill XP.

Rhorge
04-12-2013, 11:43 AM
Weapon experience is based on damage done, not experience received for a kill.

Doen't matter how it works, because arkfall mobs award 0 weapon xp.

EmptyOwl
04-12-2013, 11:43 AM
Certain Arks (I want to say the Raider minor one) does give kill exp so should count.

zerosum
04-12-2013, 11:48 AM
Oh, neat. That's good to know.

Does no one specialize in SMGs? Maybe this says something about the weapon.

DC Zero
04-12-2013, 12:08 PM
I primarily use the pulsers in pvp. The ones with a 25 fire rate so you can unload a whole clip of 50 into someone in 2 seconds. It gives you a really high chance of proccing your nano. And they are also very accurate while hip-firing so you can stay mobile.

Ammo would most likely be a problem for them in pve though.

terkwashere
04-12-2013, 12:09 PM
For most general open-world gameplay, I run with Bolt Action and SMG with Cloak.

I added a perk that ups your crit multiplier when you hip-fire. I feel like the real strength of the SMG is its ability to run-and-gun and it can do a lot of damage at close to medium range if you know how to aim it correctly. Add mods to reduce recoil and bloom to maximize effectiveness. I will have to check in game, but I don't know if there's a scope that increases your hipfire damage but I am pretty sure there is one that helps your movement accuracy?

TL;DR version
+ Great hipfire with low recoil
+ Most effective at close-to-medium range
+ Extremely high rate of fire

- Low crit multiplier
- Suffers from falloff damage beyond medium range
- Chews through ammo at remarkable rates
- Frequent reloading required

EmptyOwl
04-12-2013, 12:54 PM
Ammo would most likely be a problem for them in pve though.

Thus, the Ammo Thief perk....melee killing an enemy gives 5/10/15% ammo....and at 500 ammo those percentages are not bad.

zerosum
04-12-2013, 01:46 PM
1423

I found a wiki on IGN that had SMG stats and I put them into a spreadsheet. I'm not sure if it's up to date and im sure it's missing data. However, the Frontier looks good on paper.

ten4
04-12-2013, 01:51 PM
Best SMG imo has to be the VBI one. Most accurate when aimed and has longer range than all the rest. Second would be the burst fire carbine. Tachmag is the worst since it is near uncontrollable and runs out of ammo super fast.

But all in all, it's better just to use a LMG or AR imo since those are superior to SMGs by a large margin. Hopefulley plasma SMG comes back since that was only the real good SMG....but it was the best gun period so they removed it. :(

Xynnvincible
04-12-2013, 10:58 PM
Thus, the Ammo Thief perk....melee killing an enemy gives 5/10/15% ammo....and at 500 ammo those percentages are not bad.

Oh Sh*t!!! I thought those % perks did a % of clip size not the full ammo amount! I was always thinking to myself why would I spend 3 points and melee a guy to death to get 6 ammo!

Kroktar
04-12-2013, 11:04 PM
cant remember the name...but my fav its a Burst SMG...so does the AR rifle..much better and awesome damage

twitch reflex
04-13-2013, 12:37 AM
I'm at level 20 with the smg and like the vot pulser with fire that is sold at the fast travel in san fransico. I have been first place a couple of times during major arkfalls using only that smg. I only shoot from my hip with that smg.

Ensu
04-13-2013, 05:45 AM
Frontier SMG is very strong, but I found I disliked the burst fire. I prefer the VBI SMG. Highly accurate, tight bloom and decent damage. Lets you get a whole clip into a weakpoint even at medium range. It is still overpowered by some shotguns at close range.

KodiakX
04-13-2013, 07:45 AM
I use a Tachmag Pulsar as part of my Run N Gun Melee Blur build. Basically you don't need to ever ADS because it's always going to have the same accuracy and bloom. It's exceptionally potent with "Intimidation" because you can run up and melee a guy, which staggers them, then unload 10 bullets in their face at +75% dmg bringing up the Pulsar damage to respectable rates. The window that they're staggered is very small so the Tachmag Pulsar is one of the few weapons that can really take advantage of it consistently.

Also because of it's high proc rate, you can "paint them" (as I call it because a Corrosive weapon is like a paintball gun lol) with a Corrosive proc then do mega increased melee damage for a kill. When all is said and proc'd with Blur up and Corrosive on the target I've hit melee for 2000 damage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKitwirnWXw

There's a video example of me in action and how I use the SMG. We could really get into a discussion on the merits of SMG vs Shotgun in this game play but I'll keep it short for now :)

M00N
04-13-2013, 08:35 AM
the Pulser and the Burst one (cant remember the name) are two really good SMGs

First one has insane accuracy in aim mode, and SICK attack speed, the other one do 400-500 hits on normal shots, and headshots even more.

KodiakX
04-13-2013, 08:40 AM
the Pulser and the Burst one (cant remember the name) are two really good SMGs

First one has insane accuracy in aim mode, and SICK attack speed, the other one do 400-500 hits on normal shots, and headshots even more.

There's no SMG that does 400-500 dmg. If there is I'd love to see a picture of it.

M00N
04-13-2013, 10:04 AM
there is :) tho sold all my SMGs that i had could be that they do 400-500 on headshots tho :) anyways when i get it i will post name of it.

Lambchops
04-13-2013, 10:22 AM
The Nomad is bad. The 25 ROF variants of the Pulser are very good, but eat through ammo like crazy. Those are probably my personal favorite, just keep in mind that you will often run out of ammo while questing.

I haven't spent enough time with any other SMG types to have much of an opinion, but I do really like the Pulsers.

KodiakX
04-13-2013, 10:37 AM
there is :) tho sold all my SMGs that i had could be that they do 400-500 on headshots tho :) anyways when i get it i will post name of it.

Again I'd be interested in seeing a screen shot if you find one because they don't exist. Most SMGs top out at 200. That'd mean you'd have seen one with a 300-400 base damage on it which is pretty much Assault Rifle territory.

Likely what you saw was a dude that had a higher than normal crit multiplier. For example I can hit for around 300% damage on a Raider Tanker's face when he opens it up but then only 20% on his back plate.

M00N
04-13-2013, 11:15 AM
no sayd they do around that dmg, higher with headshots. Will post pics once i got SMGs in inventory again! All out of them atm

ExpiredLifetime
04-13-2013, 11:38 AM
The Tachmag Pulsar has 3150 theoretical DPS, as compared to the SAW's 3200. Just throwing that out there.
Anyone with any shooter experience can counter the recoil of a Tachmag - it's next to nothing compared to most games.
SMGs have either negligible or no bloom while moving, jumping, etc. They're amazing for a CQB weapon.
The reload time on SMGs is sub 2 seconds, most I've seen are 1.5 or less; endless hail of bullets.

KodiakX
04-13-2013, 11:46 AM
The Tachmag Pulsar has 3150 theoretical DPS, as compared to the SAW's 3200. Just throwing that out there.
Anyone with any shooter experience can counter the recoil of a Tachmag - it's next to nothing compared to most games.
SMGs have either negligible or no bloom while moving, jumping, etc. They're amazing for a CQB weapon.
The reload time on SMGs is sub 2 seconds, most I've seen are 1.5 or less; endless hail of bullets.

And I have one with a 1.25x (25%) Melee Multiplier which is pretty impressive. Even the Brutal synergy is only 1.15x (15%). Just wish it had a corrosive proc on it as the 20% increased damage with a +15% nano chance clip on it makes that +20% always proc.

mikegonzalez2k
04-13-2013, 12:01 PM
I found SAW's to work pretty well..

(Semiautomatic Assault Weapon)
There now you learned a real military term from a video game :)

Rhorge
04-13-2013, 12:09 PM
The Tachmag Pulsar has 3150 theoretical DPS, as compared to the SAW's 3200. Just throwing that out there.
Anyone with any shooter experience can counter the recoil of a Tachmag - it's next to nothing compared to most games.
SMGs have either negligible or no bloom while moving, jumping, etc. They're amazing for a CQB weapon.
The reload time on SMGs is sub 2 seconds, most I've seen are 1.5 or less; endless hail of bullets.

Votan mag blaster pistols beat that with 4550 theoretical dps. They run out of ammo very quickly though.

Ikagawa
04-13-2013, 12:17 PM
I found SAW's to work pretty well..

(Semiautomatic Assault Weapon)
There now you learned a real military term from a video game :)

That's not what SAW stands for. Semi-automatic is one round for each squeeze of the trigger. It's an automatic.

SAW stands for Squad Automatic Weapon.

stragen001
04-13-2013, 12:29 PM
Anyone know of an SMG that has equivalent stats to the Legionnaire SMG you get from preorder? I really like it, but its now maxed out so I want to get another similar SMG

Ensu
04-13-2013, 04:09 PM
Anyone know of an SMG that has equivalent stats to the Legionnaire SMG you get from preorder? I really like it, but its now maxed out so I want to get another similar SMG

From what I can tell, the Legionnaire is a version of the Votan Pulser.

KodiakX
04-13-2013, 04:12 PM
Anyone know of an SMG that has equivalent stats to the Legionnaire SMG you get from preorder? I really like it, but its now maxed out so I want to get another similar SMG

What are the stats on it? Dmg and Fire rate?

zerosum
04-15-2013, 01:04 PM
I've been enjoying the Pulsar quite a bit. It's especially nice that I can buy green ones with fire element in sanfran. I'll keep an eye out for the frontier carbine as it seems to be recommended here too. Thanks all for your help.

So how would you suggest modding a Pulsar or Front Carb?

What synergies are best on these two?

ExpiredLifetime
04-15-2013, 01:08 PM
Votan mag blaster pistols beat that with 4550 theoretical dps. They run out of ammo very quickly though.
The ammo issue with the mag blaster is far too great. Plus the reload time is hell on those.

Crunchyblack
04-15-2013, 01:22 PM
I have spent most of the game using LMGs (QQ saw nerf), so my experience with SMGs is very limited. I am interested in checking them out and I have a few questions.

What are all the SMG guns and how do they function?

Which SMG do you prefer? Would you suggest a particular mod for it?

Which SMG do you think is worst?

Thanks,
0

The way I see SMG, are as a weapon whos accuracy is good while hip firing on the move. Not all SMG are like this, however.

I find they work best as a close range gun where I can run and shoot without having to scope aim for accuracy.

Some are incredibly weak, inaccurate, and eat ammo far too fast however. Its certainly fun to use most SMG for hip firing on the move though (downside is they eat bullets so pairing with a LMG or assault doesn't make much sense)

I actually had to use my El Diablo SMG to down nim, it was very easy to stay on the move and constantly get shots off. My advice would be to find a SMG like the El Diablo (whatever type that is) and use it as a gun that you hip fire with while on the move, I assume it would work fantastic with a shot gun and blur.

zerosum
04-16-2013, 09:01 AM
Good tip on Pulsar for Nim. I will remember that.

I have update the first post:

It turns out most think that the Pulsars or Frontier Carbine seems to be the way to go. So, I am going to ask these follow up questions:

-how would you suggest modding a Pulsar or Frontier Carbine? What weapon bonuses or synergies are best on Pulsar or Front Carb?

-What perks/ego power would you say work well with the Pulsar or Frontier Carbine?

EmptyOwl
04-16-2013, 09:07 AM
-how would you suggest modding a Pulsar or Frontier Carbine? What weapon bonuses or synergies are best on Pulsar or Front Carb?

-What perks/ego power would you say work well with the Pulsar or Frontier Carbine?

-Large magazine, stock for hip accuracy, barrel for crit mult

-Ammo Thief, Gunslinger, the one that gives you shields on a crit kill,

Rastan
04-16-2013, 09:14 AM
FRC sub carbine. High fire rate higher damage pretty much no bloom. Downside is it is burst fire but It seems to perform better for me than all the other SMGs

zsadistdeath
04-16-2013, 10:23 AM
The way I see SMG, are as a weapon whos accuracy is good while hip firing on the move. Not all SMG are like this, however.

I find they work best as a close range gun where I can run and shoot without having to scope aim for accuracy.

Some are incredibly weak, inaccurate, and eat ammo far too fast however. Its certainly fun to use most SMG for hip firing on the move though (downside is they eat bullets so pairing with a LMG or assault doesn't make much sense)

I actually had to use my El Diablo SMG to down nim, it was very easy to stay on the move and constantly get shots off. My advice would be to find a SMG like the El Diablo (whatever type that is) and use it as a gun that you hip fire with while on the move, I assume it would work fantastic with a shot gun and blur.

Im gonna try the El Diablo. I have tried my FRC SAW (FIRE DMG) it does great dmg to him, but horrible mobility.

Ensu
04-16-2013, 10:39 AM
The way I see SMG, are as a weapon whos accuracy is good while hip firing on the move. Not all SMG are like this, however.

I find they work best as a close range gun where I can run and shoot without having to scope aim for accuracy.

Some are incredibly weak, inaccurate, and eat ammo far too fast however. Its certainly fun to use most SMG for hip firing on the move though (downside is they eat bullets so pairing with a LMG or assault doesn't make much sense)

I actually had to use my El Diablo SMG to down nim, it was very easy to stay on the move and constantly get shots off. My advice would be to find a SMG like the El Diablo (whatever type that is) and use it as a gun that you hip fire with while on the move, I assume it would work fantastic with a shot gun and blur.

El Diablo has the model of the Votan Pulser but the weapon stats of a VBI SMG, if I remember rightly.