View Full Version : Trion's Second Chance (Long)

04-12-2013, 10:29 AM
TLDR; veteran rift player hopes Trion puts its energies into the right place.

So, to be up front about it, I ragequit Rift. I was a successful raider, always grinding out best-in-slot gear, constantly testing new specs. Loved the game, in spite of its flaws. For the curious, I quit due to the "Vengeance" nerf of pvp-earned gear in a pve environment. My philosophy then, as now, was that leaving your players feeling cheated is the worst thing you can do in a game.

I came to Defiance with some trepidation. And, overall, I've been pleasantly surprised. Trion has done of things very right here, props to them for that.

And yet, minor bugs cheat me out of my earned accomplishments. And as much as I enjoy the universe, I know that I have limited patience for these issues. Many feel the same. Since I'm rooting for Trion here, I'm going to throw these out, constructively, and hope they realize the import of these issues.

As of this writing, I'm almost 1300 Ego rating, have a black challenger, and have finished every quest currently in the game.

1. Arkfall rewards inconsistent - If I run over an Arkfall-related hellbug on my way somewhere at the right time of day, I might end up (30 minutes later) a purple grenade or shield. Conversely, if I bust my hump for 30 minutes with fully modded weapons to top the dps charts I'll often end up with lesser rewards. Sometimes, I'll get 0 damage listed and get no reward at all.

This makes me not want to participate in arkfalls until you figure it out.

2. Competitive PvP crashing - though this seems to be somewhat better, I put in a lot of time early in with PvP and ended up with very little rewards from it due to crashing.

3. Shadow War score reversals - nothing better than losing when you've carefully organized your friends to guard points intelligently, blow out the other side by 500 points and...wait, DEFEAT? What??

This makes me not want to participate in shadow war until you figure it out.

4. Skill resets - I'm not a natural at the racer mini-games. It took me a great deal of time and effort to get gold in all of the races. Yay, Black Challenger (wish it was more than simply cosmetic...) Unfortunately, after hitting level 20 on runners, it...bugged out and reset my skill to 0.

This makes me not want to work on my skills, for fear they will simply disappear.

On the whole, you should be getting a good picture. Part of the joy I get in these games is in progression. I don't mind the 'flat' progression model (though I'll share minor concerns below). But I do mind blowing hours and not feeling like I've moved forward, even slightly.

I know fixes are coming, and after pouring over the notes, I'm most eager to see what the undefined "bug fixes" in each section actually entail.

But as it stands now...I don't want to do arkfalls, pvp, shadow war, or grind skills. With the quest content completed, that leaves very little for me to do.

I'm not silly enough to rage quit without a few content patches. I simply hope that the priority items on the team's list are related to player psychology, that is, appropriate effort/reward modelling and a careful eye on not taking away progression.

That's the meat of it. But I'll close out with a few minor considerations:

5. Inventory - I'm employed, and I don't mind buying some inventory slots. But now that I have my head around the mods/synergy system, I feel like you're forcing players into a place where, without inventory purchases, they'll never be able to get their gear right.

One solution to this would be to reduce the role of the RNG in gear acquisition. Why sell specific "boxes" at all, especially with factions? Why not have a big list of available mods. With enough grinding, and without massive inventory, folks could slowly but surely grind out their gear?

In the absence of that, how about making our trucks have a little storage bin (ya know, like they have in the show?) where we could store some extra items? Make it expandable with Keycodes, maybe, so those without jobs can still grind out some inventory?

Finally, a UI thing - how about the ability to "lock" gear so it simply won't show up in the sell window? Also, how about a "destroy" toggle where we could break down/sell items 20 at a time? I've seen these ideas posted elsewhere, and they're great ideas.

6. Itemization - now that I've done some real number crunching, it is obvious that half of the weapons in this game are...well, pretty awful compared to others. This isn't obvious to many players, but it clearly is to you - you're nerfing some of the best weapons. :) Why not, while you're at it, increase the base values of some of the worthless weapons. I think your concept here is to allow players to try a lot of weapons, find the one that makes you want to say, "This is my gun..." etc.

But for that to really work, there needs to be some level of parity in each of these weapons. "This one does a little less damage, but it'll make up for it past 30 yards because of that extremely tight bloom...hmmm."

We don't have that now. We have, "Hey, I just got this, is it one of the good one or one of the bad ones?"

7. Communication - I applaud your efforts to fix the voice code of the PC players. Realize, of course, that the large bulk of us already use Vent, TS, mumble, etc. So...first, please make the group in-game voice PERMANTENTLY disable-able. As it stands, every time I form a group I have no idea if the rest of my team can hear my wife whispering sweet nothings in my ear or not. I frantically get to the settings, toggle it on then off again...I'm STILL not sure. Please fix that. <3

I could care less if a random dude in my clan leaves his group. Part of what makes the in-game text chat unusable is the inability to configure what messages I get. Give us some functionality there. Where I want to use it is to communicate with the rest of my clan, even those in other Vent channels. "Explosions 101 3/4, who wants the last spot?"

8. Bigger groups - this is a long term thing, I realize. But I'd love instances or instanced arkfalls where we can go in with larger clan groups. Right now, there isn't much point to being in an active organized clan. I do get regular groups, and someone always keeps that clan boost paid for. But I want to do more than 4 mans...eventually. I'm sure that's on the table, just wanted to reinforce.

9. Combat logs/target dummies - every time someone gets a new weapon at a vendor, they shoot it into the air. Give them something to shoot at. Half the fun of rift for me was testing new specs at the target dummies. I can live without logs, for a while, but they'd be nice at some point.

10. Loot Boxes - Given the inventory issues, I think the loot boxes are a dangerous proposition. What would make it better would be to have CLEAR knowledge about percentage drops within them. Given that you're letting people pay real money to get them, I think we deserve some insight into the mechanics. Like you would playing scratch-card lotto. Giving us scraps of information, like the one developer who mentioned higher gold drop rates in T4 boxes...that's a bit disingenuous to me, since you can buy several cheaper boxes for the same investment. I think that's a good mechanic to put out there, and I think you should.

11. Cost scaling - if you're going to make levelling 'flat', make the cost structure flat as well. There's no reason higher level players should get pinched for cash when we have exactly the same grind as lower level players to REPLACE those funds. In Rift, things were more expensive, but higher level mobs dropped more cash. So replacing the money spent (on repairs/crafting) was still proportional. That isn't true in Defiance.

12. Mod removal - honestly, I don't get this at all. Why not allow us to remove mods one at a time? If I want to build a "perfect" gun, with matching blue synergy mods, I need to empty out the mods, then leave some mod slots empty while I add ONLY perfect mods to it? It doesn't feel real-life. Your exciting weapons trailer showed mods being added and changed one at a time. I think it would be better if we were able to mix good mods and crap mods without fear of losing out later for doing so. You WANT us to feel like we can experiment. Mix and match. Move things around. Don't make us AFRAID to mod our weapons, for fear of permanent loss. There's no upside.

13. Weapon skill during major Arkfalls - after quests are done, arkfalls are a big part of the game that's left. To not let weapons level from most arkfalls is an oversight, in my opinion. I can understand reasons for not wanting the mobs to have lots of XP, but I suggest...give them 1 xp each, at least, so we can level our rigs while we chase down those arkfalls.


Let me say one last time - I wouldn't spend an hour writing this if I wasn't optimistic about the future of Defiance. I am, and I hope replies to this post add feedback in a constructive tone.

I appreciate, greatly, that you guys show us your passion for this launch. Nathan's posts are a breath of fresh air what is usually a close-to-the-chest communication standard.

I know these things take time. Buy time with transparency, as Nathan is doing. I insist that the case studies are wrong, transparency earns loyalty. This, above all, is what gives me hope for this game - your attitude toward us.

I'm rooting for you guys. Keep it up.

And thanks for reading.

Beta Tester/Passionate Player of every major MMO since Meridian 59 (1996)

04-12-2013, 10:40 AM
For your first issue, are you equipping cluster grenades? If you unequip it from your loadouts then you will not get damage 0. Issue 4 pretty sure that will be fix, that is a huge problem. What to do when you hit 20 on ur cars? Walk and run everywhere?

04-12-2013, 10:45 AM
On the bigger group thing, I think your meant to be able to for Shadow War... Although I think it is bugged at the moment. I'd also imagine in future DLC we will see bigger co-op maps with bigger bosses for 8 people rather than 4, or atleast I hope.

04-12-2013, 10:59 AM
If not larger groups, they should at least make clan voice chat work for everyone in the clan and not just the players grouped. And have the clan markers stay on your screen like the groups. Yesterday 6 of our clan were farming keys but it's hard to communicate with the 2 who aren't in group (ps3 so typing is slow without keyboard) and they lose us on the map after a short distance travelled between each other.

04-12-2013, 11:00 AM
So, to be up front about it, I ragequit Rift. I was a successful raider, always grinding out best-in-slot gear, constantly testing new specs. Loved the game, in spite of its flaws. For the curious, I quit due to the "Vengeance" nerf of pvp-earned gear in a pve environment. My philosophy then, as now, was that leaving your players feeling cheated is the worst thing you can do in a game.

This is a worry I have with the Defiance. They're going to start (have started) nerfing weapons on the PvE side of the game to try and balance the horribly imbalanced PvP side of the game.

As it stands now, the PvP portion of Defiance is nothing more than a joke. Only worth doing for pursuits, contracts and achievements. Imo, it needs a complete overhaul. The PvE needs to be taken out of PvP and vice versa.

04-12-2013, 11:04 AM
For your first issue, are you equipping cluster grenades? If you unequip it from your loadouts then you will not get damage 0. Issue 4 pretty sure that will be fix, that is a huge problem. What to do when you hit 20 on ur cars? Walk and run everywhere?

Wrong. I've been listed as 0 damage when I didn't even own any cluster grenades.

04-12-2013, 11:06 AM
Wrong. I've been listed as 0 damage when I didn't even own any cluster grenades.

Yeah? Must be something else, since removing cluster grenades worked for me when someone said that was the problem.

04-12-2013, 01:05 PM
Yeah? Must be something else, since removing cluster grenades worked for me when someone said that was the problem.

Yeah, I had it happen to me prior to cluster grenades too.

04-12-2013, 01:20 PM
Very well thought out and I agree with all of it. Give them some time and I think they'll get it mostly right.

04-12-2013, 01:46 PM
+2 for this thread

OP is Right on the money with mostly all points. I really hope the Devs at Trion pay attention to this and truly listen and not be stubborn.

04-12-2013, 03:08 PM
Excellent post, Brick! I'm definitely in love with the game, and I think most of the 47th is, but there are some particularly pressing issues which are already costing legionaries' their passion to play.

Don't let this stuff linger, TW.

04-12-2013, 03:13 PM
I agree with many of your points.

04-12-2013, 03:24 PM
Very well written, great points.

04-13-2013, 04:15 PM
Nice job Brick.

Brick is in our Legion and is a patient and generous player. What he states has not been written without discussion and dialogue. It is a well informed and constructive opinion.

04-13-2013, 04:38 PM
I suport this post.

04-13-2013, 04:42 PM
Agreed, very well put OP.

04-16-2013, 06:43 AM
I haven't played in a week due to my roller skills being reset from 20 to 0. A nice epic LMG i spent alot of resources modding out simply vanished from my inventory forever. My primary weapon slot was just blank where the item used to be. I've sent 4-5 reports and haven't gotten any answers yet. It's just too frustrating for me to play right now.

04-21-2013, 12:12 AM
Fix what is broken, then work on balancing.

I spent an entire day grinding pvp(Waterfront) and major arkfalls for kills. only to find out at the end of the day that they reset the pursuit at the beginning of every match/arkfall. How am I supposed to acquire 25 kills in Waterfront? I can't solo it unless everyone else on my team quits the match and nobody else is brought into the match.

My EGO is 1708 now and I really think you need to fix the pursuits so that they can be accomplished. Fix the Freight Yard so I can work on that, or remove the requirements from the pursuits like you did with the episode pursuit.

I reiterate: Fix what is broken, leave balancing for later.

Edit: This is by far the most entertaining shooter I have played on PC, so fix the bugs and make it that entertaining for everyone.

04-21-2013, 12:30 AM
from someone who HATES to read i read all of that. great post indeed and well worth the read. made alot of great points

04-21-2013, 12:53 AM
I've been slow to utter anything that I would throw in about fixing, but the OPs post about the mods is spot on. I'm a slow, patient gamer, and I look at the numbers of things closely. I want to try out the synergies because it's part of the content that I haven't tried. First I was buying them out of the Lock Boxes in ignorance. I figured the mods themselves gave the bonuses. After doing a bit of research I find that the synergy only works with a weapon with that king of synergy. /sigh

So, now I'm left with this insurmountable problem. I have to find weapons that have the synergy I like and suits my style, then I have to find mods with that same synergy. But, the mods are random, I may end up with 10 magazine mods when I need a barrel mod to finish my weapon. More, as the OP mentioned, I can't put a place holder in that slot and then replace it when I finally get the mod I want, if I made the mistake and modded out my weapon with a mix of the synergized mods and crap, then when I go to remove them, I lose them all. So, I'm left with the mods taking up inventory space and being unusable until I have the full set or partially modding out my synergy weapon and waiting and waiting, playing the lottery every day....

The sad truth is, by the time I even got a couple of the mods, I found weapons I liked the stats on a hell of a lot better and it may not have any synergy. But, then, I don't know the benefits of a synergy weapon as I've never had the weapon and the mods together in the same place at the same time.

I get the concept, I like the concept, but the randomness of this seems extreme. I can't take advantage of parts of the game because i can't get all the pieces to come together at the same time.

And on this note, the "figure it out on your own" model for this game is annoying as hell. No where have I found the break down of how to use synergy mods, hell, even finding out how to invite someone to a group is buried deep and takes some digging to find.

Meh, it's late and I've been sitting here for awhile poking around the 'net, checking the forum, and generally wasting time. Probably not the best time of the night for me to be trying to post and be coherent.

04-21-2013, 01:13 AM
Awesome post. Thanks for taking the time to write it. I am having a blast playing Defiance so far, so thank you Trion. (I miss Rift...)

And I am right there with you for time playing MMOs... UO and Meridian, then EQ stole me for many years.

04-21-2013, 01:27 AM
I'm glad you spent an hour telling the devs exactly how to make the game perfect for you; ya know, with all the priorities, that are priorities for you. Maybe each of us should write our own hour long laundry list of things we want to make this game perfect for just ourselves. Then, the devs can hold a lottery, pick a name out of a hat, and determine which laundry list of perfect stuff for one individual should be implemented. Hey, maybe it'll be you!! Keep them fingers crossed!