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View Full Version : Sandbox = Crafting ?



Pitty
10-23-2012, 05:21 PM
With all the current trending on sandbox games, wondering if Defiance will implement any sandbox features.

Quoted from another thread about another game.


Crafting is definitely a cornerstone of a traditional sandbox, along with PvP.

Crafters supply equipment and items of all kinds, from weapons and armor to constructions, to the PvPers to fight with. These can be destroyed to create a constant demand for crafting.

PvPers fight over territory containing valuable resources for the crafters to make things with. These are used up in crafting to create a constant demand for the territories containing the materials.

Those two demands interacting with each other is generally what creates the dynamic player-driven world of a sandbox.

That being said, I'm sure it's not the only way to create a dynamic player-driven world. But it's one way that's been proven to work.

Dorkknight
10-23-2012, 05:58 PM
I would love to hear about crafting ingame myself, I'm wondering if they would throw in ATV/Car/Truck crafting with weapons/mods and armour along the same format as Fallen Earth with the amount of effort it required in said game.

vampero
10-23-2012, 11:47 PM
During the alpha livestream I asked in chat and they told us they were not ready to talk about crafting yet . I can't wait to get info about it soon !

Jenbuu
10-24-2012, 06:22 AM
when Kal spoke to Rob Hill at Gamescon he said that at this time there isnt going to be crafting in the game,
he seemed pretty adamant about that. but who knows things could be in eh pipe line you never know.

Im hoping that there will be i still love crafting,

We at defiance central covered it in our second podcast, check it out https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-defiance-central-podcast/id553062620

vampero
10-24-2012, 12:53 PM
when Kal spoke to Rob Hill at Gamescon he said that at this time there isnt going to be crafting in the game,
he seemed pretty adamant about that. but who knows things could be in eh pipe line you never know.

Im hoping that there will be i still love crafting,

We at defiance central covered it in our second podcast, check it out https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-defiance-central-podcast/id553062620

I think that sucks if there is no crafting...You can't call a game a MMO with out crafting in it.

Siantlark
10-24-2012, 01:13 PM
I think that sucks if there is no crafting...You can't call a game a MMO with out crafting in it.

You can definitely call something an MMO without crafting. An MMO stands for Massive Multiplayer Online after all not Massive Multiplaying Crafting Simulator.

vampero
10-24-2012, 01:19 PM
You can definitely call something an MMO without crafting. An MMO stands for Massive Multiplayer Online after all not Massive Multiplaying Crafting Simulator.

Your right ,but I look at real MMO's have crafting in it. It gives you a break from questing or gear grinding...:p more and more I feel this game is going to be FTP..It's just a thought.

Siantlark
10-24-2012, 01:22 PM
Your right ,but I look at real MMO's have crafting in it. It gives you a break from questing or gear grinding...:p more and more I feel this game is going to be FTP..It's just a thought.
You don't need crafting though. It's not like it's required to make a good game.

vampero
10-24-2012, 01:34 PM
You don't need crafting though. It's not like it's required to make a good game.

I respect your thought but I disagree with you 100%.

vampero
10-25-2012, 12:56 AM
mmorpg.com posted that crafting will not be in game on release .

"Defiance will be a bit lighter on the MMO mechanics (no crafting at launch, for example), but I feel what I was able to experience so far may strike a happy medium of appealing to both crowds."
http://www.mmorpg.com/mobile/features.cfm?read=6833&game=0&ismb=1

I have even more respect now for Trion ! I rather not be told broken promises from a Dev team and don't do what they say they were going to do for release . On that note I hope to see crafting after release of Defiance .

Fiancee
10-26-2012, 03:53 AM
Id love to see good crafting but so far only MMO with extensive crafting seems to be Elder Scroll Online.

vampero
10-26-2012, 11:10 AM
Id love to see good crafting but so far only MMO with extensive crafting seems to be Elder Scroll Online.

Me too,it is a big deal to me. GW 2 has a great crafting system. Rift crafting system is OK I'm a master crafter. We will have to wait until after the release of Defiance if and when they will add it to the game.

Cavadus
10-26-2012, 11:18 AM
You'd think a post-apocalyptic setting where technology is at a premium and we're all murdering each other over alien technology from space that scrounging, tinkering, and crafting would be a central role for every player....

vampero
10-26-2012, 01:33 PM
You'd think a post-apocalyptic setting where technology is at a premium and we're all murdering each other over alien technology from space that scrounging, tinkering, and crafting would be a central role for every player....

I totally agree with you.

Saboteur 6
10-28-2012, 04:35 PM
I'm not a big fan of in-depth crafting systems so if it does get implemented, I hope it's at a very rudimentary level. Crafting doesn't have to exist in MMO's anymore than classes do.

vampero
10-28-2012, 04:43 PM
I'm not a big fan of in-depth crafting systems so if it does get implemented, I hope it's at a very rudimentary level. Crafting doesn't have to exist in MMO's anymore than classes do.

I don't agree you with you I think every MMO needs a crafting system in game. I won't pay $14.99 a month just for a questing/PvP FPS/MMO.. when they are saying it is a MMO. Planetside 2 says it a shooter and it is F2P. That kind of world in Defiance is a great place for crafting system finding old parts and junk to make things.

vampero
11-01-2012, 08:26 AM
You'd think a post-apocalyptic setting where technology is at a premium and we're all murdering each other over alien technology from space that scrounging, tinkering, and crafting would be a central role for every player....

Makes sense to me.

Tombstone4U
11-01-2012, 08:42 AM
I find crafting a good way to add your personal touch to a game you are involved in and would be very nice to see especially since you can modify your weapons with in game add ons. I'm sure it has been put in on the round table discussions but it maybe that suspenceful thing they just want us to mouth water over to keep us coming back for more. Either way I dont feel it is a make or break for the game as it looks absolutely breath taking and the concept is so intriqueing. Can't wait for release and to see you all in game!!

timassin
11-01-2012, 09:49 AM
Unfortunately, I don't think crafting will make an appearance in defiance. I think we'll just be attaching different components to our guns, I'm sure they'll be different variants and rarer common types of each variant bit I think we'll just be pull up wepon add attaching/ detaching.

JellyBean
11-01-2012, 11:10 AM
Just want to point out although crafting won't be immediately available you can mod your weapons to suit your playstyle. Not exactly crafting but I'm sure you will still need necessary materials in order to perform the upgrades. Not crafting per se but some depth and customization to the game is still there.

vampero
11-01-2012, 12:49 PM
Unfortunately, I don't think crafting will make an appearance in defiance. I think we'll just be attaching different components to our guns, I'm sure they'll be different variants and rarer common types of each variant bit I think we'll just be pull up wepon add attaching/ detaching.

It will come but not on release.

JellyBean
11-01-2012, 01:22 PM
An interesting thought would be adding weapons or mods to the atv's we'll be riding. Or even crafting our own rides

vampero
11-04-2012, 11:00 AM
An interesting thought would be adding weapons or mods to the atv's we'll be riding. Or even crafting our own rides

Yes that would be a great idea...I hope crafting gets in the game a few month after release !

JellyBean
11-07-2012, 01:35 PM
Really though early on it's looking like the mods to our weapons is as far as the crafting will go until they add more depth to it later on. Its an ambitious undertaking so I imagine the dev team has their hands full with other aspects of the game

Shadinaxx
11-07-2012, 09:16 PM
Would love to see a crafting system similer to Earth & Beyond, where you could craft from collecting raw materials, then refining, then assembled into componants, assembled into modules, then assembled into pieces of gear. There was a really good market for people that liked to collect the raw materials, and gave depth to the refining proccess, because copper ore could be refined a couple dozen differant ways to come up with differant alloys or what not for differant applications.

I dont expect anything like that at launch, of course, but I can dream of having material collections having more depth than a time sink, something to do between raid lockouts.

vampero
11-08-2012, 04:59 PM
Would love to see a crafting system similer to Earth & Beyond, where you could craft from collecting raw materials, then refining, then assembled into componants, assembled into modules, then assembled into pieces of gear. There was a really good market for people that liked to collect the raw materials, and gave depth to the refining proccess, because copper ore could be refined a couple dozen differant ways to come up with differant alloys or what not for differant applications.

I dont expect anything like that at launch, of course, but I can dream of having material collections having more depth than a time sink, something to do between raid lockouts.

That would be a cool crafting system !

JellyBean
11-08-2012, 06:50 PM
Would love to see a crafting system similer to Earth & Beyond, where you could craft from collecting raw materials, then refining, then assembled into componants, assembled into modules, then assembled into pieces of gear. There was a really good market for people that liked to collect the raw materials, and gave depth to the refining proccess, because copper ore could be refined a couple dozen differant ways to come up with differant alloys or what not for differant applications.

I dont expect anything like that at launch, of course, but I can dream of having material collections having more depth than a time sink, something to do between raid lockouts.

WOW that sounds so incredibly intricate. With possibilities like that you should be able to craft pretty much anything you would need in game and create a whole new depth to the player-to-player economy. Does sound complicated as heck though lol

Saboteur 6
11-08-2012, 09:38 PM
People lauding crafting seem to have difficulty thinking outside of archaic RPG systems. If you were to actually step back and look what crafting brings to MMO's...it's really just an extra layer of time consuming grinding for items/equipment/skills. Obviously, crafting has to have in-game mechanical application (I.E statistical impact on gameplay) so it's usually in the form of powerful gear, consumables, or related to the class/leveling system meaning it FORCES value into the combat system in order to make the mechanic relevant.

So to those of you clamoring for crafting I ask you to consider what you're really wanting; a non-combat portion of gameplay that coincides with the game experience. It's in this aspect, I agree as variation in gameplay options is certainly a good thing. It just doesn't have to come in the form of rigid systems used by MMO predecessors. Look at how games are viewing class systems these days (hell even THIS game). People used to bemoan combat systems that deviated from the established pen and paper RPG tropes of Tank/Healer/Damage. All because people like what is familiar. That type of thinking is why so many MMO developers are afraid to innovate and incorporate NEW systems into a game.

vampero
11-09-2012, 08:15 AM
People lauding crafting seem to have difficulty thinking outside of archaic RPG systems. If you were to actually step back and look what crafting brings to MMO's...it's really just an extra layer of time consuming grinding for items/equipment/skills. Obviously, crafting has to have in-game mechanical application (I.E statistical impact on gameplay) so it's usually in the form of powerful gear, consumables, or related to the class/leveling system meaning it FORCES value into the combat system in order to make the mechanic relevant

So to those of you clamoring for crafting I ask you to consider what you're really wanting; a non-combat portion of gameplay that coincides with the game experience. It's in this aspect, I agree as variation in gameplay options is certainly a good thing. It just doesn't have to come in the form of rigid systems used by MMO predecessors. Look at how games are viewing class systems these days (hell even THIS game). People used to bemoan combat systems that deviated from the established pen and paper RPG tropes of Tank/Healer/Damage. All because people like what is familiar. That type of thinking is why so many MMO developers are afraid to innovate and incorporate NEW systems into a game.

So your point is to cut crafting out and that will make something new ?

Rowan
11-09-2012, 02:43 PM
A couple years ago when I was at Gamer Day for Rift.. We asked a ton of questions that had answers like "At launch."

A lot of those features came in later as (very loosely promised) and were well received. It's my humble opinion that while it might be a bummer that we don't have it at first it's probably for the best. Defiance has to have a lot of things ready to go at launch that some traditional MMOs do not. Crafting along with Housing and other 'sandbox' things, is one of those things that is better if you don't rush it.

If such a time comes when Trion gives Defiance crafting, I have better faith in them making it awesome if it comes in a later expansion. Trion is knowing for putting out polished games at release but respectfully.. Rift wasn't a -huge- game at launch like many of the old AAA MMO's out there. Simply because that's the only way to do an MMO successfully right now.

They don't have the time and unlimited resources to spend on including every feature and making a ginormous map. But they have been reliable with content patches and successful at integrating features they wanted but could not include in those patches, expansions and so forth.

Shadinaxx
11-09-2012, 05:29 PM
Honestly, at the launch of a new game, there is no real "need" for a crafting system. Especially with the overall archetyoe that Defiance is (semi post-apocolyptic scenario), if aliens fell outta the sky tomorrow, the vast majority of the surviving population would be scrambling for protection, shelter and fellow survivors, focusing on crafting once they were in a more stable situation. Being "low level" would not be part of any means of a stable situation.

All that being said, I would be more than happy to wait for a well polished and in depth crafting system that has more meaning than a time sink and stat polish. If Trion would let me, I would be more than happy to forward them a basic model of how the crafting system I mentioned a few posts above works, and the mad scientists in charge can decide if they wanna use it or not.

Crafting really only comes into a prime "need" at about the first end game content patch, then crafting is usually nerfed for having consumables that are "too good", and about the 3rd end game content patch, crafting is balanced. Typically, anyways, lol.

vampero
11-09-2012, 07:15 PM
A couple years ago when I was at Gamer Day for Rift.. We asked a ton of questions that had answers like "At launch."

A lot of those features came in later as (very loosely promised) and were well received. It's my humble opinion that while it might be a bummer that we don't have it at first it's probably for the best. Defiance has to have a lot of things ready to go at launch that some traditional MMOs do not. Crafting along with Housing and other 'sandbox' things, is one of those things that is better if you don't rush it.

If such a time comes when Trion gives Defiance crafting, I have better faith in them making it awesome if it comes in a later expansion. Trion is knowing for putting out polished games at release but respectfully.. Rift wasn't a -huge- game at launch like many of the old AAA MMO's out there. Simply because that's the only way to do an MMO successfully right now.

They don't have the time and unlimited resources to spend on including every feature and making a ginormous map. But they have been reliable with content patches and successful at integrating features they wanted but could not include in those patches, expansions and so forth.

I agree with thoughts about crafting. I agree they should take the time needed to make crafting great before they release into Defiance.

vampero
11-09-2012, 07:28 PM
Honestly, at the launch of a new game, there is no real "need" for a crafting system. Especially with the overall archetyoe that Defiance is (semi post-apocolyptic scenario), if aliens fell outta the sky tomorrow, the vast majority of the surviving population would be scrambling for protection, shelter and fellow survivors, focusing on crafting once they were in a more stable situation. Being "low level" would not be part of any means of a stable situation.

I agree and disagree with you. When Defiance is release hope the DEV's put hard thought in to the release of the game. I hope the game has depth and not a vanilla feel to the game. A to Z quest and Solo Story won't cut it no more. We all now what happened to SWTOR not releasing what they said they were going to do. I just hope oPvP and sPvP is better than Rift's ( Stun and Debuff you to death) and it won't be gear based. I hope it will be skilled based like Guild Wars 2. Now with that said I hope crafting will be in Defiance sometime down the road after release.

JellyBean
11-10-2012, 01:36 PM
The pvp is going to be out of this world and probably a main focus for the game. I'm not worried about the crafting system because the shooter aspects is going to be such a huge and integral part of the game. Crafting will be more for when players gain a higher level and want to do something else other than shoot each other in the face. So there is some time. To farm for materials you gotta be much stronger than what you are farming

Saboteur 6
11-10-2012, 03:54 PM
So your point is to cut crafting out and that will make something new ?

My point is that you don't always have to have the same damn mechanics in every game exactly the same way we've had them in the past. Modern MMO's are realizing that people are bored of the same approaches to combat, questing, and experience systems and crafting is certainly no exception. Vampero you said yourself that you're really just looking for a gameplay option outside of questing/exploring/pvp. Why does it have to be in the form of crafting?

vampero
11-10-2012, 05:57 PM
My point is that you don't always have to have the same damn mechanics in every game exactly the same way we've had them in the past. Modern MMO's are realizing that people are bored of the same approaches to combat, questing, and experience systems and crafting is certainly no exception. Vampero you said yourself that you're really just looking for a gameplay option outside of questing/exploring/pvp. Why does it have to be in the form of crafting?

It don't have to be crafting your right and I'm fine with that too,if the game does not have a vanilla feel to it . Read post #33 here http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?337-Sandbox-Crafting&p=3549&viewfull=1#post3549