PDA

View Full Version : Any chance of weapon skill gaining exp regardless of weapons exp bar in next patch?



Krileon
04-12-2013, 05:49 PM
It really annoys me that I can't use the guns I've worked for (faction guns) and have modded completely because their EXP bar is maxed and I can't gain weapon skill EXP anymore. Is this going to be fixed so we can reset our weapons EXP bar or at least continue to gain EXP in the weapon skill regardless of the weapons actual EXP bar?

Transientmind
04-12-2013, 05:54 PM
I would be strongly in favour of this. There's something so cheap about finding a weapon you really like and are effective with, spend time and resources modding and gaining benefits to, only for your reward to be having to discard it - and not in favour of something better. Just in favour of something ELSE, if you ever want to raise exp for that category again.

Your reward for all that effort is to never use that weapon again. It's the OPPOSITE of a reward and makes investing anything more than the cheapest, token modding utterly pointless.

And if it doesn't change, it needs to be better explained in-game. Not just the intel pages - pretty sure everyone knows that's the place for lore and crap that you might not care about when looking at the mechanics of things. You shouldn't have to visit the forums to find out why you're not getting exp anymore.

Ralifur
04-12-2013, 05:55 PM
Wont have to discard it. you just dont use it before you hit lvl 20 in your weapon skills as that is the max. :-)

Can be done in a couple of days if u go fulltime weapon skill leveling

Agent T8235
04-12-2013, 05:55 PM
the point of this is to force players to try new weapons.

As much as I hate it, I can confidently say that this is not going to change

Krileon
04-12-2013, 06:04 PM
I have no problem trying new weapons. This doesn't stop anyone from doing so. It forces those who have invested into a weapon (try getting perfect matching synergy mods for a synergy gun) to be punished. You basically get the pleasure of staring at your awesome weapon while going through weapon after weapon trying to fill the weapon skill EXP bar. It's a stupid mechanic. I would be completely fine with a Reset button on the EXP bar. This causes you to lose the bonus it gained, but you get to re-level it; it seams like a fair compromise. Most people don't even know weapon skill EXP stops when the weapon EXP is maxed.. that's just crazy..

Warlander
04-12-2013, 06:07 PM
I like it the way it is, there are lots of weapons i would have never tried otherwise, keep it the way it is, people need to get over it, once you max out your weapon skill at 20 then you can do whatever you want,.

Agent T8235
04-12-2013, 06:07 PM
I have no problem trying new weapons. This doesn't stop anyone from doing so. It forces those who have invested into a weapon (try getting perfect matching synergy mods for a synergy gun) to be punished. You basically get the pleasure of staring at your awesome weapon while going through weapon after weapon trying to fill the weapon skill EXP bar. It's a stupid mechanic. I would be completely fine with a Reset button on the EXP bar. This causes you to lose the bonus it gained, but you get to re-level it; it seams like a fair compromise. Most people don't even know weapon skill EXP stops when the weapon EXP is maxed.. that's just crazy..

this could work, any devs listening? ....please?

Krileon
04-12-2013, 06:10 PM
I like it the way it is, there are lots of weapons i would have never tried otherwise, keep it the way it is, people need to get over it, once you max out your weapon skill at 20 then you can do whatever you want,.
Nothing is stopping you from trying out new weapons. An EXP bar being maxed on a weapon is an insanely silly reason to trying another weapon. If it sounds interesting, try it; what does the EXP matter in that regard? The current system does nothing but punish you.. it's absurd.. it logically doesn't even make sense for weapon skill EXP to stop.. you're still using that type of a weapon so you should continue to be proficient with it. The compromise solution would be a Reset button on the weapons EXP bar.

Drandorion
04-12-2013, 06:13 PM
the point of this is to force players to try new weapons.

As much as I hate it, I can confidently say that this is not going to change

Really? When my assault rifle maxes out on exp I just switch to a nearly identical assault rifle that I either found or bought off of a vendor. It's just an annoyance that I have to get a new weapon not really pushing me to try anything else.

Unfortunately I think your correct in that the exp gain from weapons will be very unlikely to change anytime soon.

Tgreen
04-12-2013, 06:13 PM
This also is a pain when in comes to inventory space ... you better keep every not-entierly-useless-piece-of-junk in your inventory, plus the weapon you intend to use in the long run. Because of this I carry around 30 guns ... never using the ones that I'd prefer btw.

Quite annoying actually and there already was talk about the ability to reset your weapons EXP ... although, just letting them give you skill experience after the bar on the weapon is maxed out could't be that hard and would solve quite a bit of grief with all those oblivious to not gaining weapon skill experience once your gun's leveled up ... pretty sure quite a bit of the "new" (as in "never played beta") players have no clue.

Warlander
04-12-2013, 06:16 PM
Nothing is stopping you from trying out new weapons. An EXP bar being maxed on a weapon is an insanely silly reason to trying another weapon. If it sounds interesting, try it; what does the EXP matter in that regard? The current system does nothing but punish you.. it's absurd.. it logically doesn't even make sense for weapon skill EXP to stop.. you're still using that type of a weapon so you should continue to be proficient with it. The compromise solution would be a Reset button on the weapons EXP bar.

I really dont see it as a issue, atm though at least its something to spend money on, right now im leveling smg's and i go through 1 every 45min to a hour so i buy 3 at a time, you dont see me whining about it.

a reset will just be abused to roll for different bonuses, if they add a reset they have to change how the whole system works , so they might as well just remove the whole xp bonus then.

like i said it doesnt take long to max out a weapon skill to 20, when you do you can stick with the same weapon all you want.
Im tired of this pointless debate on the topic.

Blackwolfe
04-12-2013, 06:19 PM
They have mentioned the possibility of adding a reset, but at a high cost (probably alot of gulanite).

However, another idea would be to allow for skill level increases even with a maxed out weapon, but at a reduced rate.

Draugluin
04-12-2013, 06:27 PM
This also is a pain when in comes to inventory space ... you better keep every not-entierly-useless-piece-of-junk in your inventory, plus the weapon you intend to use in the long run. Because of this I carry around 30 guns ... never using the ones that I'd prefer btw.

Quite annoying actually and there already was talk about the ability to reset your weapons EXP ... although, just letting them give you skill experience after the bar on the weapon is maxed out could't be that hard and would solve quite a bit of grief with all those oblivious to not gaining weapon skill experience once your gun's leveled up ... pretty sure quite a bit of the "new" (as in "never played beta") players have no clue.

You don't need to keep junk in your inventory. This is what I do:

Let's say I like (as so many others do) to train LMG's. The ones I find lack open mod slots etc. Feels bad, but I can use them as well. Better still, I drive next to certain vending machines and buy a green LMG with 4 slots open. I drive to another location to buy white mods to enhance the weapon a bit. I keep using it until it is maxed. I salvage, and buy a new weapon and mods.

Meanwhile, good mods are useless to recycle from greens / blues. It's too expensive salvagewise. So, while I'm gathering salvage I keep adding mod slots on purples and oranges and put the good mods into these weapons.

There are many loadouts to choose from. Nothing prevents you to have fully maxed weapon on some of these with top dog mods installed. Use it when situation calls for it (or in Arkfalls, where you don't get weapon xp anyways).

The good thing is that EGO 300 orange is still usable when you hit 3000 EGO. Imagine such a thing in e.g. WoW if your gear would be still useful after 30 level-ups.

hardy83
04-12-2013, 06:29 PM
I would prefer they add two things.

Completely reset the xp of the weapon for a high gulanite cost.
As well as not completely stopping the flow of xp to a skill but severely hampering it. Like 50% less skill xp with a capped weapon.

ten4
04-12-2013, 06:38 PM
I really dont see it as a issue, atm though at least its something to spend money on, right now im leveling smg's and i go through 1 every 45min to a hour so i buy 3 at a time, you dont see me whining about it.

You can buy almost all the SMGs from vendors so your claim that it's fine is a bit misleading; this is easy to procur weapon type and the 'good' ones can be bought easily from a vendor not even a special. Try leveling up sawed off shotties or pistols using garbage vendor ones: you might want to rip your hair out in frustration.

Tgreen
04-12-2013, 06:44 PM
That's ... well, I run a lot of co-ops and I feel it's my obligation to not slow down things with unmodded greens, so the stuff I keep is actually blue items with appropriate elemental effects (for the non-explosive weapons), vendor-mods and a stat bonus that makes sense for the weapon (e.g. shotguns with reduced recoil wouldn't fall into this caterogry...).
Now if I wouldn't collect those weapons and keep them I'd still be able to buy the few greens that are acceptable or the blues from the 3 hidden vendors, but they don't have everything I want.

As for the different load outs - this only becomes interesting if you know your weapon EXP will bug out anyway.

And of course ... yes, I'm at fault for not powerleveling one skill after the other but just wanting to play with a variety of different weapon types and level up by doing so, but that is my point ...


ten4 ... ironically pistols is the weapon type that I have the largest amount stockpiled up. All blues with siphon or radiation and either the VOT 13 rps or 4x multiplier or higher ones ... around 6 or 7 of them. ;o
This kind of makes my point I guess ... none of those could have been bought outside of special sale offers.

Monkheal
04-12-2013, 07:33 PM
I dont really mind this system myself although like some said reset at high gulanite or half xp at max would be nice. If it was not for the system though I probably would have stuck with the very first thunder AR i got and not tried out the vbi tacc type as early, and now those are my favorite I just wish I could find a vendor to buy a bunch to finish my levels out, but now after using all the ones I had and losing one due to a random loss, im keeping 1 for when i need or want to do high dps when needed. I thought the burst would be lame was sooo wrong.

It does suck though that the only one that I have remaining is maxed out and I went back to full auto. Be so nice if there was a better trade system in game I think it would alleviate some of these problems, maybe I should just stop being lazy and use the trade forums...

Shada Mori
04-12-2013, 08:37 PM
Wont have to discard it. you just dont use it before you hit lvl 20 in your weapon skills as that is the max. :-)

Can be done in a couple of days if u go fulltime weapon skill leveling


This ... I have a couple weapons that are perennial favorites of mine I was lucky enough to get orange versions of I am keeping till 20.. one example is I have a beautiful Wolverine pistol I ain't letting go for anything.. I keep it for when I max pistols (which will be soon) .. after that point.. I don't have to bother with switching anymore.

DeMoted
04-12-2013, 08:38 PM
It really annoys me that I can't use the guns I've worked for (faction guns) and have modded completely because their EXP bar is maxed and I can't gain weapon skill EXP anymore. Is this going to be fixed so we can reset our weapons EXP bar or at least continue to gain EXP in the weapon skill regardless of the weapons actual EXP bar?

Once you hit 20 you don't have to worry about it anymore...

Scyris
04-12-2013, 08:47 PM
the point of this is to force players to try new weapons.

As much as I hate it, I can confidently say that this is not going to change

Well most of the other versions of that gun just aren't as good, its pretty stupid that after you spend all this ark salvage/script to upgrade a weapon then to have it not earn you weapon skill exp for using it is pretty stupid, especally when all other versions of that same type of weapon have the exact same base stats. VBI Taccc Assault rifles are a prime example, I have a really nicely modded fire elemental one, with low base reload due to a bonus stat, spent a ton of salvage etc to get it there, then the exp bar is full and now I am forced to use a really crappier version of that same weapon to raise my weapon skill, its just a really stupid aspect of the gear system. Since all the base stats do not change when I have a gun I am comfy with and like, I really dislike having to be forced to change to a worse version of the same gun just to advance weapon skill exp.

Buruko
04-12-2013, 09:30 PM
I dunno if I should feel refreshed that people are now having issues with being unable to use a obviously superior weapon now rather than complaining all the weapons are the same and never change.

I look at the weapon exp like this, if you use a weapon you become familiar with it. Once you know the weapon using it is not really going to teach you more about that type of weapon. Also the amount of EXP a weapon can generate seems to very by the quality of the weapon, meaning that blues take longer than greens, purple longer than blues, etc. To sort of balance the fact they are a superior item over the previous incarnation, that in itself is somewhat a compromise.

However if you have a favor weapon you prefer of a certain type keep it, place it on a separate load out and when you want to use the weapon you feel most proficient with do so. Otherwise filter your second string through your exp load out and keep on trucking.

The mechanic is there to make it that you don't just get one gun and use that for well, ever.

Nero
04-12-2013, 09:42 PM
You don't need to keep junk in your inventory. This is what I do:

Let's say I like (as so many others do) to train LMG's. The ones I find lack open mod slots etc. Feels bad, but I can use them as well. Better still, I drive next to certain vending machines and buy a green LMG with 4 slots open. I drive to another location to buy white mods to enhance the weapon a bit. I keep using it until it is maxed. I salvage, and buy a new weapon and mods.

Meanwhile, good mods are useless to recycle from greens / blues. It's too expensive salvagewise. So, while I'm gathering salvage I keep adding mod slots on purples and oranges and put the good mods into these weapons.

There are many loadouts to choose from. Nothing prevents you to have fully maxed weapon on some of these with top dog mods installed. Use it when situation calls for it (or in Arkfalls, where you don't get weapon xp anyways).

The good thing is that EGO 300 orange is still usable when you hit 3000 EGO. Imagine such a thing in e.g. WoW if your gear would be still useful after 30 level-ups.
Sorry I have to point out Heirloom gear in WoW. Usable from level 1-70. With great stats and an exp boost to boot.

Buruko
04-12-2013, 09:47 PM
Sorry I have to point out Heirloom gear in WoW. Usable from level 1-70. With great stats and an exp boost to boot.

Yes, gear you paid for with incredible amounts of time.

Erei
04-12-2013, 11:09 PM
I look at the weapon exp like this, if you use a weapon you become familiar with it. Once you know the weapon using it is not really going to teach you more about that type of weapon.
Yeah, the saw I buy in bulk in Happy Pow Farm are really different. Or not.

This is a stupid system, and I hope they'll get ride of it, as it is only usefull for a money sink, and there is no use for money anyway. So it's kinda ridiculous.
If you want to try new weapon, try them. But a lot of player, myself included, just buy the same weapon over and over, because it's the best/only good/the one I like, and hoard the purple/orange one for when they finally cap the weapon skill, and stop the grind. I tested the others LMG, they are basically useless.

Kyse
04-12-2013, 11:29 PM
I wish cuz its dumb that u have to get a new weapon each time and I just cant find a weapon better then what I have and all my weapon skills r low lvl cuz of this :/

Cheggers
04-12-2013, 11:48 PM
Well got rank 20 in assault rifles and it was worth the work to get there. So sorry they really don't need to add any thing as the weapon I got at like rank 5 in rifles was worth keep hold off, it was good at rank 5 now its even better at rank 20.
Now if they was to add any thing that allows you to get rank exp from a maxed out weapon it should be no more than 10% exp in that weapon tbh.

Kurze
04-12-2013, 11:58 PM
I think it should be reworked, currently it makes zero sense

1) it doesnt make people try new weapons, just make them buy the exact same gun they are comfortable with in bulks, then cycle thru them

2) it dissuades people from using the mod system, or forces them just putting lowest level, crappy mods until they have maxed their weapon skill

3) the max bonus on a weapon is idiotic since the very second you unlock it the weapon is inmediatly discarded.

4) some weapons like SMGs can be bought from vendors easily in bulk and with decent quality, while others are a real pain to get in enough quantities, let alone the same version, let alone the same quality.



It sounds like it was planned to foster an ingame economy by forcing everlasting necessities of new weapons for all players all the time, and in this case and this case alone it would work, actually it would be GOOD.


However the game doesnt have a built-in action house or similar fast, convenient and easy way to promote player trading, hence there is practially no economy to foster. AT ALL. period



with an action house, the system could be considered fitting and helpful, if only sligthly contradictory in several ways

without it, its simply nonsensical and counterproductive to the extreme. and obvious time sink of the worst kind to make weapon levelling artificially slower and give the illusion of more/longer content

Krileon
04-13-2013, 08:02 AM
I see a lot of "just buy extra weapons". Sure, if I want to suck. So what you're telling me is grind out 10+ of the same faction weapons then 40+ of the same faction mods just so I can level 1 weapon skill. No, just no. Then you say "it won't matter at 20!".. so I have to wait 20 weapon skill levels before I can use a weapon I worked quite hard to get? (grind out faction weapon and matching mods.. have fun..). The system is designed around throw-away garbage weapons and utterly stupid. If that was their intention then there shouldn't even be different rarities in weapons at all. This is all I hear from a lot of you that are against a change to the system "I'm glad you got a Legendary, but you shouldn't use it for 20 weapon skill levels.. have fun!".. WHAT?!?

It -needs- to be changed, period.

I still can't grasp my head around why this horrible idea even made it into the design documents. The team member that suggested it needs slapped. If it wasn't suggested then it's a bug that needs fixed. Stop punishing me for playing your game Trion, thank you.

The biggest issue I see is 90% of the people I've communicated with doesn't even know that they need to swap weapons! How is this even remotely acceptable!?

Shada Mori
04-13-2013, 08:54 AM
I see a lot of "just buy extra weapons". Sure, if I want to suck.

If you need a high end weapon with full synergy mods to not 'suck" .. you suck. This is a skill based game, and I don't mean mechanics... its twitch, and player skill will always trump weapons. Weapons are nice, but they don't boost you enough in this to make a difference. A good player is good with a white gun as they are with a gold. Also, you do realize 'faction' weapons are far from the best in the game, right? You can get much better from locked boxes. The syn mods are nice (most of them..) and really are the only thing worth buying from rep vendors.

jnt
04-13-2013, 08:58 AM
It's either a built in money sink or poor design. Even if it's poor design, by this point no one is going to admit it. It would probably take some epic internet rage to get changed so don't hold your breath.

You can max your weapon skill for minimal cost. Then you can farm up some orange weapons that do the same damage and look identical to white ones. No worries.

Emerson
04-13-2013, 09:04 AM
Haha I'd been wondering why my weapon type I used the most didn't seem like it was leveling up, facepalm lol.

Krileon
04-13-2013, 09:08 AM
If you need a high end weapon with full synergy mods to not 'suck" .. you suck. This is a skill based game, and I don't mean mechanics... its twitch, and player skill will always trump weapons. Weapons are nice, but they don't boost you enough in this to make a difference. A good player is good with a white gun as they are with a gold. Also, you do realize 'faction' weapons are far from the best in the game, right? You can get much better from locked boxes. The syn mods are nice (most of them..) and really are the only thing worth buying from rep vendors.
This is a complete and absolute load of crap. My weapon has extra clip size, reload speed, fire rate, and recharges 15% of my grenade on kill. Trash vendor weapons don't even compare. I can fire off grenades nearly non-stop if I want (but no point as it won't increase my weapon skill either). It's not a skill based game. This isn't a twitch shooter where you need precision aiming (there is even aim locking!). The cover system only half-works (hide behind a wall yet I still get shot?). This is a MMO just like any other MMO except has crosshair auto targeting... you have no idea what you're talking about...

Xyr3s
04-13-2013, 09:11 AM
If you need a high end weapon with full synergy mods to not 'suck" .. you suck. This is a skill based game, and I don't mean mechanics... its twitch, and player skill will always trump weapons. Weapons are nice, but they don't boost you enough in this to make a difference. A good player is good with a white gun as they are with a gold. Also, you do realize 'faction' weapons are far from the best in the game, right? You can get much better from locked boxes. The syn mods are nice (most of them..) and really are the only thing worth buying from rep vendors.



i think his point was that u get lucky and get an orange weap..... u manage to find decent mods for it.... u mod it up and then BAM! throw that away and use a diff weapon..... whats the point in even having diff rarity weapons then????? be cause u sure as hell are not lucky enough to find the exact same orange weapon again and get another 4 decent mods for it any time soon.

FourEyes
04-13-2013, 09:15 AM
Use a powerful weapon and lose out on the ability to gain a couple extra percentage points for its stats, or cycle through half a dozen powerful weapons for a smaller period of time so you can gain those extra percentage points.

There's a really weird mindset floating around that you're somehow gimping yourself by not levelling the weapon skill all the time, every time.

Vyth
04-13-2013, 09:17 AM
It really annoys me that I can't use the guns I've worked for (faction guns) and have modded completely because their EXP bar is maxed and I can't gain weapon skill EXP anymore. Is this going to be fixed so we can continue to gain EXP in the weapon skill regardless of the weapons actual EXP bar?

^+091582875275x this. Honestly it doesn't make sense at all. If they really wanted an either/or XP gain then it would make much more sense that you don't gain weapon skill UNTIL the weapon xp bar is full...

So, while learning a new specific weapon you get better at shooting but after you know how to use that specific weapon, where it tends to hit, you got it zeroed in, know how to compensate for recoil etc... now that you know that you can't get better at shooting so you have to get a new gun and start over... 0_o?


on the aside, how does anyone have faction guns already unless you bought the greens? I've done the dailies/weeklies every time they were available, familiar with everyone and highest rep-points I got is 121... and most you can even do more than once a day since every time the server goes down the dailies reset.

Daergar
04-13-2013, 09:20 AM
If you need a high end weapon with full synergy mods to not 'suck" .. you suck. This is a skill based game, and I don't mean mechanics... its twitch, and player skill will always trump weapons. Weapons are nice, but they don't boost you enough in this to make a difference. A good player is good with a white gun as they are with a gold. Also, you do realize 'faction' weapons are far from the best in the game, right? You can get much better from locked boxes. The syn mods are nice (most of them..) and really are the only thing worth buying from rep vendors.

You need to find better weapons with proper inherent bonuses on them before you type more silliness, ok? ;)

Buying five green SAWs at a time and slapping three mods on them at the moment. Awesome way to spend my time and scrip on. Excellent desigin decision and it's so much FUN to boot.

Blackwolfe
04-13-2013, 09:22 AM
^+091582875275x this. Honestly it doesn't make sense at all. If they really wanted an either/or XP gain then it would make much more sense that you don't gain weapon skill UNTIL the weapon xp bar is full...

So, while learning a new specific weapon you get better at shooting but after you know how to use that specific weapon, where it tends to hit, you got it zeroed in, know how to compensate for recoil etc... now that you know that you can't get better at shooting so you have to get a new gun and start over... 0_o?


on the aside, how does anyone have faction guns already unless you bought the greens? I've done the dailies/weeklies every time they were available, familiar with everyone and highest rep-points I got is 121... and most you can even do more than once a day since every time the server goes down the dailies reset.

The daily didn't reset for me when the EU servers went down. However oddly enough the weekly did (with 2 days left on the timer I belive, good riddance though, hated the bulwark one..)

Vyth
04-13-2013, 09:24 AM
This is a complete and absolute load of crap. My weapon has extra clip size, reload speed, fire rate, and recharges 15% of my grenade on kill. Trash vendor weapons don't even compare. I can fire off grenades nearly non-stop if I want (but no point as it won't increase my weapon skill either). It's not a skill based game. This isn't a twitch shooter where you need precision aiming (there is even aim locking!). The cover system only half-works (hide behind a wall yet I still get shot?). This is a MMO just like any other MMO except has crosshair auto targeting... you have no idea what you're talking about...

MMO with no real leveling system, no mail, no bank, no auction house, barely any chat system, no whispers, gaining EGO rating does not make you any stronger, perks are mostly useless, guns/nades/shields are mostly the same regardless of what EGO rating they are so a brand new toon is just as viable as a 2k+.... yeah that's just like any other MMO... /faceplam

Blackwolfe
04-13-2013, 09:26 AM
I wouldn't say that perks are mostly useless as there are several ones that will make your life alot easier and your enemies die quicker.

jnt
04-13-2013, 09:27 AM
MMO with no real leveling system, no mail, no bank, no auction house, barely any chat system, no whispers, gaining EGO rating does not make you any stronger, perks are mostly useless, guns/nades/shields are mostly the same regardless of what EGO rating they are so a brand new toon is just as viable as a 2k+.... yeah that's just like any other MMO... /faceplam

Defiance is the least fun I've ever had horizontal. :D

I find it amusing how flat Defiance is, it's like Quake the mmo.

fishboy11
04-13-2013, 09:44 AM
i wish the devs would at least address this problem and comment on it, theres new threads everyday about it, it was a problem in beta that people complained about and they said they would add a button to reset weapon xp, but they never did and they have totally ignored the problem since.

Mako482
04-13-2013, 10:08 AM
I like it the way it is, there are lots of weapons i would have never tried otherwise, keep it the way it is, people need to get over it, once you max out your weapon skill at 20 then you can do whatever you want,.

Since when is FORCING people into trying anything against their will fun? Just because you think it is cool everyone else should too? Maybe I don't want to try new weapons.

NarcoticDragoon
04-13-2013, 10:10 AM
Jesus Christ! So this is why I can't level my sawed-off shotguns anymore?!?!

FourEyes
04-13-2013, 11:47 AM
Since when is FORCING people into trying anything against their will fun? Just because you think it is cool everyone else should too? Maybe I don't want to try new weapons.

Then don't try new weapons. Stick with the one you like and forego an extra two percent stability or reload speed. Not levelling your weapon rank is not going to be the end of the world. It's an incentive to spread your time over different weapon types, not the end goal.

Erei
04-13-2013, 12:06 PM
Stick with the one you like and forego an extra two percent stability or reload speed. Not levelling your weapon rank is not going to be the end of the world. It's an incentive to spread your time over different weapon types, not the end goal.
That's the point. We have a whole mod and improve your gun ingame, but we don't use it for the most part, as we are improving our weapon skill. We should be happy when our weapon reach his max lvl, but in fact, most of the time, it will just mean it's time to trash it and use another one.
I don't need the game to tell me "test something else" to do it. And finally, I just buy the same gun in bulk, just like almost everyone else. I tested the others, didn't like them because they are simply bad, and I did it without the game telling me to do so.

FourEyes
04-13-2013, 12:08 PM
The weapon skill increase is not larger than the increase you get from mods. Higher weapon skill is a small bonus, not the main intent. You're getting worked up about something that's entirely optional and would be prevented by having a little more self control. If the game automatically threw your guns away then sure, but it doesn't.

PseudoCool
04-13-2013, 12:10 PM
This really is kind of a catch 22...

First off..yes, it does MAKE you try new weapons, or at least gives you something to spend scrip on after everyone says how worthless in game it is...

Secondly.. if you PAY ATTENTION during your tutorial section, EGO TELL YOU about the weapons XP bar and how it does NOT AFFECT CLASS EXPERIENCE when you pick up your first weapon. So, if you didn't know, and your Ego 300 or something.. then it's on YOU, since the Dev's DID put it in there, YOU chose not to listen.

Thirdly.. I have to agree, the system is BACKWARDS. You level a gun to max, get it all modded, and THEN it no longer affects the larger pool for experience growth. That's akin to a "anti-reward" than it is a reward. That being said, getting that class skill up is a HUGE set of bonuses (do it and see.. it's a really high amount, and is a full blown reward system for those crappy vendor weapon greens and blues).

Fourth.. How the hell is ANYONE getting their weapons CLASS skill up so fast? I'm using an LMG that I've got about 10 hours into playing with, and it's weapon XP bar isn't even close to leveling yet and my LMG class skill is only at 4. Am I doing something wrong here with killing stuff all over the place, doing missions and side missions, arkfalls, emergency fights, at whatnot? Someone tell me that.. cuz I really want to get my skills up in all my weapons, the bonuses are great!

Lastly.. this really boils down to player choice. You *can* go to the various hidden vendors and get all sorts of weapons (blues and greens).. and getting the hidden vendors open isn't exactly hard. Then work the class skill up over and over again...
Or.. you can just get a single weapon you like, and tweak the mods to get the stats you want.. it really boils down to preference. Me.. I'm not a PvP'er, but it would seem to me that any PvP'er would want the most bonuses they could get, which would include maxing out the weapon AND class skills for the weapons of their choice. Imagine a sawed off shottie with 10% more damage output, faster reload times, and increased accuracy. For PvE.. blech.. sawed off's are atrocious.. but for PvP, I'm thinking this would be the new FOTM. Another thing is in PvE.. imagine that beautiful gun you got at the beginning of the game for pre-ordering (granted, there are others in the game with the same stats, just different name).. now imagine holding that when your AR skill is at 20.. yo've got 18% more damage, 15% recoil reduction, 15% less bloom, 12% better accuracy, and 15% faster reload.. all with a gun that has a 15% boost to grenade recharge with every kill. You'd be the straight gangster pwnzor in PvE with that gun, and you'd be having one helluva time.

The choices are yours people.. I think there should be some sort of compromise in how the weapons Xp works in regards to class XP (and been saying that since Beta/Alpha).. but really.. the boost and "perk" everyone's looking for when gaining levels.. it's in those class xp bonuses.

NalkorRN
04-13-2013, 12:19 PM
the point of this is to force players to try new weapons.

As much as I hate it, I can confidently say that this is not going to change

Try new weapons? There's only a few different types of weapon for each category. Most people just advise finding the kind of gun sub-type you happen to enjoy using at a vendor and buy numerous ones and just use them to level up your weapon skill and when maxxed out, turn them into ark salvage or sell them to recoup losses and then stick to your main weapon of that sub-type. I find the semi-automatic scoped Assault Rifles to be more painful to use since the zoom is very inadequate coupled with too much screen shake whenever I start getting hit, so I opt for the burst fire ones or the fully automatic ones with very minimal cone of fire bloom. I prefer my combat shotguns to be either Cluster Shot or the fully automatic kind. I like my Infectors to be the Canker kind or the slower-firing anti-sniper Infector that spawns parasites after each little 'tick' is filled and watch Elite Dark Matter Monitors die to two full magazines worth of parasites.

Transientmind
04-13-2013, 06:44 PM
"Congratulations! You found a totally awesome weapon! I hope you enjoy using it for a couple hours before you have to go purchase a piece of crap weapon from a vendor again!"

Seriously, that's ********. Either that, or, "Hey, here's a cool weapon! Guess you'll never use it though, because if you do, you'll max it out and stop levelling that weapon skill!"


Your reward for using a weapon you really like is to not be able to use that weapon anymore. Gee. That sounds... fun?

Zzyn
04-14-2013, 02:14 AM
It's absurd. It *has* to be a bug. i'm glad people have learned to work around it, but seriously... they can't have meant to make it this way... just sayin

Grimwyrd
04-14-2013, 02:26 AM
Maybe I have an easier time of this because I play a lot of MMORPGs?
"Yay! I got the Awesome Sword of Awesomesauce! It's the best level 12 sword in the game!"
Three levels later I sell it to a vendor, because it's worthless. Par for the course.

I just reached Assault Rifle 20, and the rewards are:
-5% reload
+5% crit multiplier
-10% recoil
+10% melee dmg
+10m falloff dmg
+5% effect trigger
+5% damage
AND... I no longer need to cycle to fresh ARs all the time (part of the reward for a job well done).

Kroesis
04-14-2013, 02:27 AM
Despite knowing the reasons behind it, it does grate on me that you can't increase weapon type XP with a maxxed xp weapon. I am always looking for a 'better' weapon to drop and will try new ones out with mods but so far they just aren't as good as my favourite weapon but I have to use them to get the weapon type xp.

I don't see why maxxed weapons can't still contribute but at a slower rate, say 10% of an un-maxxed weapon.

Still I guess when I eventually max out my weapon type level I can then choose my favourite weapon and continue with that until I find something better. Until then I wish we had some form of item storage!

Jardian
04-14-2013, 02:36 AM
Ok let me put this a simple way ..say like real life just because you are good with a certian AR dont mean you can use any of them just like the other take a Ar 15 and a Ak . Both are considered Ar's but the two are diffrent and handle diffrent. You cant pick up a ak after useing a ar 15 and use it well takes time. So that is where your common sense part of this topic exists.

Kurze
04-14-2013, 02:40 AM
Ok let me put this a simple way ..say like real life just because you are good with a certian AR dont mean you can use any of them just like the other take a Ar 15 and a Ak . Both are considered Ar's but the two are diffrent and handle diffrent. You cant pick up a ak after useing a ar 15 and use it well takes time. So that is where your common sense part of this topic exists.
the problem is that, according to this game, you have to drop your ar 15 and get a different ar 15 to keep getting better with it


which is completly *** backwards, both in real life and in gaming terms. you dont replace your gun for the exact same gun to keep practicing...you...keep using the one you have...amazing concept, isnt it?

Draugluin
04-14-2013, 03:19 AM
Sorry I have to point out Heirloom gear in WoW. Usable from level 1-70. With great stats and an exp boost to boot.

True. I know these things about, although I quit that game well before they were introduced. If it needs clarification, I meant that a decent weapon you get randomly at EGO 300 will work as useful at EGO 3000.

knightblaster
04-14-2013, 03:32 AM
the problem is that, according to this game, you have to drop your ar 15 and get a different ar 15 to keep getting better with it


which is completly *** backwards, both in real life and in gaming terms. you dont replace your gun for the exact same gun to keep practicing...you...keep using the one you have...amazing concept, isnt it?

Yes, I agree, and I would hope that this particular glitch (leveling with a different copy of the exact same weapon) would be patched out, while keeping the basic idea that once you have learned a gun inside and out it doesn't have anything more to teach you about a particular class of guns, so you need to move on to other models in order to keep learning about the ins and outs of the entire class of guns.

FACEMAN187
04-14-2013, 03:52 AM
Yes, I agree, and I would hope that this particular glitch (leveling with a different copy of the exact same weapon) would be patched out, while keeping the basic idea that once you have learned a gun inside and out it doesn't have anything more to teach you about a particular class of guns, so you need to move on to other models in order to keep learning about the ins and outs of the entire class of guns.


Can you clarify what you mean? Are you saying that they should patch it so once i max out my burst fire AR that i would need to get a semi-auto or full auto AR to keep gaining my weapon class exp? That makes less sense to me than the current weapon exp set up. If i prefer burst fire I should be able to keep buying burst fire ARs to level my class, not be forced to buy something i dont prefer.

Cutlass Jack
04-14-2013, 04:38 AM
Yup this really needs to be fixed. The game punishes you at the exact point it should be rewarding you for maxing out a weapon. And worse, it doesnt even let you know its doing it. The only way I had even the slightest clue you could no longer get weapon Exp with a maxxed weapon was because of threads like these.

Nevermind things like weapons still getting exp at arkfalls even though you don't get skill gains. Brilliant.

jameswithaz
04-14-2013, 06:02 AM
why not just add an xp gain reduction instead of fully stoping the xp gain, and make the reduction kinda small too, like maybe 20% less, dont take away my ability to level the gun, just give maybe the hardcore grinders a reason to switch it up

Phhilu
04-14-2013, 06:13 AM
I really dont see it as a issue, atm though at least its something to spend money on, right now im leveling smg's and i go through 1 every 45min to a hour so i buy 3 at a time, you dont see me whining about it.

a reset will just be abused to roll for different bonuses, if they add a reset they have to change how the whole system works , so they might as well just remove the whole xp bonus then.

like i said it doesnt take long to max out a weapon skill to 20, when you do you can stick with the same weapon all you want.
Im tired of this pointless debate on the topic.

resetting for the bonus you wanted was one of the benefits i saw on this. it's another grind you can do if you want, and you're rewarded correctly for it.

loken
04-14-2013, 06:13 AM
why not just let me use the same ****ing gun to level my experience with that type of gun, making me but a new version of the same gun does not make me try new weapons.

Phhilu
04-14-2013, 06:17 AM
I really dont see it as a issue, atm though at least its something to spend money on, right now im leveling smg's and i go through 1 every 45min to a hour so i buy 3 at a time, you dont see me whining about it.

a reset will just be abused to roll for different bonuses, if they add a reset they have to change how the whole system works , so they might as well just remove the whole xp bonus then.

like i said it doesnt take long to max out a weapon skill to 20, when you do you can stick with the same weapon all you want.
Im tired of this pointless debate on the topic.

resetting for the bonus you wanted was one of the benefits i saw on this. it's another grind you can do if you want, and you're rewarded correctly for it.

i can't see how they'd had to change the whole system either, care to elaborate?

either way it's kind of bringing me down a bit. it's not a huge annoyance, but it does push me back a bit i feel. right now i'm forced to use a burst AR and i hate using burst weapons.

Father Jack Hackett
04-14-2013, 06:19 AM
I don't mind the system they are using. I just concentrated on maxing out assault rifles, done that now moving onto sawn off shotguns. Once I maxed a assault rifle out if I loved it I kept it or sold it/broke down into ark salvage. Now I have 4 assault rifle each slightly different, ROF,burst,full auto,semi auto with scope. Still kept my episode mission assault rifle(just broke ego level 1000). Now if I ever come across a better variation of the ones in my inventory they will be replaced.

Won't be using assault rifles now as I want to work on my other weapon skills. I was quite happy to find a assault rifle, not as good as my favourites use it to get the job done then sell it off. Much prefer this system as I have tried all the different variations instead of sticking to just one gun for the lifespan of this game. Semi auto with scope if I want to just sit back as my friends charge in with shotguns, then switch loadout and power to a close quarters high ROF and high fire damage for close quarters.

Wolf
04-14-2013, 08:04 AM
Sweet Jesus yes! It so needs to be changed. So I have a weapon that i think handles really well, has a nice clip size, is modded up, and with built-in bonus I want and fit my play style. I'm then left with 2 choices.. keep using it and get zero exp gimping myself, or find a inferior gun that's not maxed so i can continue to get my skill up. Madness! I'd be happy if u could reset or prestige your gun. But punishing u by stopping your level progression but maxing a weapon is crazy. :/

Transientmind
04-14-2013, 04:35 PM
Maybe I have an easier time of this because I play a lot of MMORPGs?
"Yay! I got the Awesome Sword of Awesomesauce! It's the best level 12 sword in the game!"
Three levels later I sell it to a vendor, because it's worthless. Par for the course.


Except that's not what's happening. Because the endgame weapons are the same as the cool weapons you find at the start.
What's happening is much more like you've picked up the level 12 weapon of awesomesauce, and used it for a fraction of a level, but now the weapon itself is maxed and you can't level anymore.
"But I wanna keep levelling!"
Then I guess you gotta vendor the level 12 weapon of awesomesauce.
"But what will I use? There aren't any better weapons around!"
Then I guess you better buy a grey from a vendor.
"But that's a WORSE weapon than my current one! Like... a lot worse! And I can't find any better ones!"
Yes. That is the problem with this horse-**** system.

Imagine how MMOs would go trying to do that to slow down levelling... Once you've used your current weapon for a quarter of a level, you can't level up until you get rid of it. At least in other MMOs you can craft new weapons or look up a drop table to improve your odds of finding a replacement. No such luck here.

Krileon
04-15-2013, 08:34 AM
Glad to see so many agree with me on this needing to change, lol. So far I've been running around with 13 different grenade launchers just to level up the weapon skill and the one I want to use (purple with mods) I can't as it's maxed out.. I hope the next patch will be addressing this somewhere in its so called "8 pages". It's crazy this even made it out of beta as it was a major complaint then.