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umKthcbye
04-13-2013, 08:27 PM
WTF??!??
I swear these things are OP to the max.
I get shot from the other end of the map once and I die, and I have the Ironclad Reloader III DX shield on.
Shotguns can be as Op as they want in PVE but in PVP they really need to be toned down.
It really take away from the fun when you get one shotted from these things.
Anyone else having this problem? I have Stealth on and they still somehow hit me although they have no idea were I am.

Shotgun should be nerfed in PVP it's just too damn strong, especially if you pair it up with Stealth, then it's just almost unstoppable.

atlantix
04-13-2013, 08:33 PM
you might encountered a hacker
cause if you get shot from long distance with shotgun while you are cloaked
that means a hacker got you
next time report him maybe or try to video capture

umKthcbye
04-13-2013, 08:37 PM
you might encountered a hacker
cause if you get shot from long distance with shotgun while you are cloaked
that means a hacker got you
next time report him maybe or try to video capture

yeah, I've been meaning to get fraps, but I keep forgetting.
But even on my good days of PVP there is always the OP shotgun scenario. I just think they should be toned down a bit. In Shadow Wars its not too bad because of the huge maps, but in Competitive, it's all CQB and the shotgun is just ridiculousness.

atlantix
04-13-2013, 08:43 PM
yeah, I've been meaning to get fraps, but I keep forgetting.
But even on my good days of PVP there is always the OP shotgun scenario. I just think they should be toned down a bit. In Shadow Wars its not too bad because of the huge maps, but in Competitive, it's all CQB and the shotgun is just ridiculousness.

at the moment small maps in competitive pvp so its normal that shotguns own.. since more and faster damage in short range..
in cap & hold map its totally different scenario..
its not only about defiance, in any shooter game shotgun owns in small maps
for example

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0-hQQAsRMU

Lambchops
04-13-2013, 09:41 PM
at the moment small maps in competitive pvp so its normal that shotguns own.. since more and faster damage in short range..
in cap & hold map its totally different scenario..
its not only about defiance, in any shooter game shotgun owns in small maps
for example

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0-hQQAsRMU

Unfortunately for people who don't like shotties, this is just the way that it is. Shotguns dominate at CQC, that's how it should be and that's how it will be. That is their only real niche, you take that away and they are essentially useless.

I'd much rather they balance the PvP around Shadow Wars then competitive personally, so Shotties being a little broken in small maps doesn't bother me that much. Maybe adding some bigger maps to competitive would be a better solution.

But yes as far as Shotties killing you from long-range while in Cloak or things like that, I would assume hacking is involved.

There's a reason most BF3 players hated the Close Quarters expansion. Shotties are fairly balanced in that game on normal maps. On small maps they are ridiculous. BF3 was not balanced around small maps.

umKthcbye
04-13-2013, 09:52 PM
Unfortunately for people who don't like shotties, this is just the way that it is. Shotguns dominate at CQC, that's how it should be and that's how it will be. That is their only real niche, you take that away and they are essentially useless.

I'd much rather they balance the PvP around Shadow Wars then competitive personally, so Shotties being a little broken in small maps doesn't bother me that much. Maybe adding some bigger maps to competitive would be a better solution.

But yes as far as Shotties killing you from long-range while in Cloak or things like that, I would assume hacking is involved.

There's a reason most BF3 players hated the Close Quarters expansion. Shotties are fairly balanced in that game on normal maps. On small maps they are ridiculous. BF3 was not balanced around small maps.

As a BF3 player I completely understand. I've been gaming for well over 15 years, since Quake 1, and I understand that shotties are allabout CQC, but I had no issues with them in Counter-Strike(all versions) or any other game, hell, even in BF3 I had no issues in CQC, but in Defiance I find them slightly OP. I could handle the shotty that takes 2 shots simultaneously(sawed off shotgun) then needing a reload killing me in 1 hit, but all the others is just nuts. I've got a shield that can take 1600 dmg then my HP with the HP booster Perk and still get 1 hit killed. If they are going to make shotty this OP how about some more love for the infectors, give them some more dmg and allot more range, then Ill shut my mouth.

I'm hopping shotties get toned down a slight bit, not crazy down, but a bit, no weapon should deal 1 shot kill unless hit in the face.

Lambchops
04-13-2013, 09:59 PM
As a BF3 player I completely understand. I've been gaming for well over 15 years, since Quake 1, and I understand that shotties are allabout CQC, but I had no issues with them in Counter-Strike(all versions) or any other game, hell, even in BF3 I had no issues in CQC, but in Defiance I find them slightly OP. I could handle the shotty that takes 2 shots simultaneously(sawed off shotgun) then needing a reload killing me in 1 hit, but all the others is just nuts. I've got a shield that can take 1600 dmg then my HP with the HP booster Perk and still get 1 hit killed. If they are going to make shotty this OP how about some more love for the infectors, give them some more dmg and allot more range, then Ill shut my mouth.

I'm hopping shotties get toned down a slight bit, not crazy down, but a bit, no weapon should deal 1 shot kill unless hit in the face.

What shotties are one-shotting you? The sawed-offs are the only ones that are actually capable of one shot kills to players. Granted, Pump Shotties still kill quickly (2 to 3 shots depending on distance and accuracy), but they don't 1-shot. I've used all of the shotties in PvP fairly extensively at this point, the only one that I managed to 1 hit KO with is the sawed off.

I also don't use cloak so I suppose that could be the difference. To be honest, the only thing that pushes Shotguns over the edge is Cloak imo. The extra damage you get from shooting from cloak (potentially) does earn you a 1 shot kill with certain Shotguns. So should cloak be looked at or should Shotguns be looked at?

K3LB0T
04-13-2013, 10:03 PM
Idk guys maybe there was a hacker?? Still they just might have a high Power Rating 4 their shorty. In case you don't know this every weapon type has a proficiency level or "Power Rating" you can see yours by pressing start then LB a few till you see stats scroll the list and see what levels you're at. If you know this then my bad.

umKthcbye
04-13-2013, 10:19 PM
Idk guys maybe there was a hacker?? Still they just might have a high Power Rating 4 their shorty. In case you don't know this every weapon type has a proficiency level or "Power Rating" you can see yours by pressing start then LB a few till you see stats scroll the list and see what levels you're at. If you know this then my bad.
What does LB equate to in PC =P I assume LB stands for Left Bumber on xbox?

Lambchops
04-13-2013, 10:31 PM
What does LB equate to in PC =P I assume LB stands for Left Bumber on xbox?

I think he's just talking about weapon levels, which you can see on the Stats page on PC. Just press "L" to go to the character page and then scroll over a few pages.

Xeex
04-14-2013, 12:49 AM
i pvp about 40% of the time (shadow war), and yes, while shotguns are annoying as all heck, not everyone uses em. my fav combo is a bonfire and pistol actually. light whole areas on fire and while theyre playin the rolly polly tryinna get the fire off, just tear em up with a pistol. their shotguns have zero effect this way. its hilarious to watch someone blindly shooting w their shotty's cuz i lit em on fire while cloaked, only to be right behind em w my pistol.

For other things, theres always a way around whatever someone else is using. and remember, most of those folks usin shotguns, arent very good at it. weapon takes no real skill to use, which is why so many people use it. that and they got tired of being instagibbed by one.

watch for falling rockets =)

Nallic
04-14-2013, 01:39 AM
I think the problem is shotgun + stealth. People show up behind you and just unload 3-4 shots in your back. Before you realise what happened, you're dead.

I agree that on QC shotguns should be good, but at the moment it's pretty much the only weapon that's being used. That should be an indicator for something. If one weapon type is that good there's no reason to rock the others, perhaps it needs toning down. :)

Lambchops
04-14-2013, 01:55 AM
I think the problem is shotgun + stealth. People show up behind you and just unload 3-4 shots in your back. Before you realise what happened, you're dead.

I agree that on QC shotguns should be good, but at the moment it's pretty much the only weapon that's being used. That should be an indicator for something. If one weapon type is that good there's no reason to rock the others, perhaps it needs toning down. :)

I've seen plenty others being used in Shadow Wars, that's why I keep saying that I only see it as a problem in competitive matches, which I barely touch anymore personally.

Cloak + shotty is still maybe a little silly even in Shadow Wars, but otherwise it seems fine to me. As somebody who uses Blur, I still do well with Shotties but I do get killed plenty by people with ARs, Snipers and Infectors. As well as other shotties of course.

Something else I've noticed people doing in SWs lately is using quick-fuse frag grenades to counter shottie rushes if they see them coming and have time to react -- theres enough time while the nade is still in the air for them to roll out of the way, but .3 seconds is much quicker then any human can possibly react. If it's a direct hit, that person is dead every single time, or close to death anyways. Pretty effective provided you don't blow yourself up in the process.

Raehvyn
04-14-2013, 02:22 AM
I'm not usually one for competitive pvp but I tried several rounds. Honestly, it is absurd. No one is using anything other than stealth and shotgun combo. Despite having health buffs and several damage reduction perks I am still just getting 1 shot and I realize sawed offs do that but what threat is there if all you do is 1-shot everyone? It is absurd, really.

Maybe I'm not used to small map PvP but it has turned me off completely. Oh well.

Sceles
04-14-2013, 05:11 AM
Shotguns are fine, stealth and infinite rolling/bunny hopping are not. If shotguns got nerfed no one would play PvP anymore because it would be so ridiculously hard to hit anything.

This is what I would do to fix this, I already posted something similar on the suggestion section yesterday.
- improve stealth so that it does not make players within 10-15 meters completely invisible, only very transparent(in-game format, equals to about 5-7m IRL).
- add stamina meter that depletes after 3-4 jumps or rolls but recharges fast after 2-3 seconds as long as the player does not jump, roll or run(running would only affect recharge, not consume it).

FizzyMyNizzy
04-14-2013, 05:37 AM
WTF??!??
I swear these things are OP to the max.
I get shot from the other end of the map once and I die, and I have the Ironclad Reloader III DX shield on.
Shotguns can be as Op as they want in PVE but in PVP they really need to be toned down.
It really take away from the fun when you get one shotted from these things.
Anyone else having this problem? I have Stealth on and they still somehow hit me although they have no idea were I am.

Shotgun should be nerfed in PVP it's just too damn strong, especially if you pair it up with Stealth, then it's just almost unstoppable.

I don't see why shotgun needs to be tune down? It is a close range weapon. You don't see me saying all sniper rifle need to be nerf because of 1 shot to the head kill AND it has range. Shot are for people that isn't too good with sniper rifle and still have a chance to kill people close up. Tho, this game those has its bugs. Hopefully everything get fix.

And you said it you were kill from range and the person is cloak. No way a shotgun that spread out all the bullets could do that much dmg, maybe slug shotgun. But I haven't really play with those. Only if that person puts the gun on your body and pull the trigger, I find that reasonable. If some one shot you with a shotgun in RL. You will take serious damage to your body. Just saying.

Katastrofi
04-14-2013, 05:45 AM
WTF??!??
I swear these things are OP to the max.
I get shot from the other end of the map once and I die, and I have the Ironclad Reloader III DX shield on.
Shotguns can be as Op as they want in PVE but in PVP they really need to be toned down.
It really take away from the fun when you get one shotted from these things.
Anyone else having this problem? I have Stealth on and they still somehow hit me although they have no idea were I am.

Shotgun should be nerfed in PVP it's just too damn strong, especially if you pair it up with Stealth, then it's just almost unstoppable.

Some shotguns are WAY too OP + 70% people use Cloak with it. It eats the feeling using any other weapons in PvP (6v6, 8v8). One reason for this is PvP "maps size" also.

Decoy-EGO might work against these cloaked killers since it can see invisible units but I still belive we need some changes... :confused::confused::confused:

Dwane
04-14-2013, 05:45 AM
Yes, shotgun+cloak/blur is op. But post it in pvp section and not general.

Wraethrax
04-14-2013, 06:20 AM
I'm not usually one for competitive pvp but I tried several rounds. Honestly, it is absurd. No one is using anything other than stealth and shotgun combo. Despite having health buffs and several damage reduction perks I am still just getting 1 shot and I realize sawed offs do that but what threat is there if all you do is 1-shot everyone? It is absurd, really.

Maybe I'm not used to small map PvP but it has turned me off completely. Oh well.

I'm with you on this. I was very turned off by PvP and not just because I suck. I felt like I had a really hard time telling friend from enemy and had no long range visibility. I got run over and blown up with shotguns for most of my Shadow War games. I know it's early, but PvP already seems to have a niche style. I'm going to keep at it, but my initial experience has been discouraging.

Agonist
04-14-2013, 06:51 AM
i pvp about 40% of the time (shadow war), and yes, while shotguns are annoying as all heck, not everyone uses em. my fav combo is a bonfire and pistol actually. light whole areas on fire and while theyre playin the rolly polly tryinna get the fire off, just tear em up with a pistol. their shotguns have zero effect this way. its hilarious to watch someone blindly shooting w their shotty's cuz i lit em on fire while cloaked, only to be right behind em w my pistol.

For other things, theres always a way around whatever someone else is using. and remember, most of those folks usin shotguns, arent very good at it. weapon takes no real skill to use, which is why so many people use it. that and they got tired of being instagibbed by one.

watch for falling rockets =)

I think I may already hate you for this. I had only seen this strategy a few times so far but I think it will catch on once people realize you cannot see shtako while on fire.

Merlinus
04-14-2013, 07:48 AM
I think the problem is shotgun + stealth. People show up behind you and just unload 3-4 shots in your back. Before you realise what happened, you're dead.


if you use decoy at all like i do, i think my most favorite perk is the one where you take 30% less dmg when hit from behind for pvp. decoy also has a skill that reveals all cloaked units when used, plus the fact that you can switch places with your decoy makes this awesome. i've found some ppl try to hit me in my back like you said with cloak finding only they they don't one shot me, i hit my decoy it uncloaks them and if they have a sawed off their stuck outa cloak trying to reload then you got your decoy so if they come after you just switch places and while they take out your decoy bam, but thats just my play style i'm having fun with hehe.

umKthcbye
04-14-2013, 08:06 AM
I think he's just talking about weapon levels, which you can see on the Stats page on PC. Just press "L" to go to the character page and then scroll over a few pages.

Ahhh, that makes sense. Thanks.

Xeex
04-15-2013, 12:11 PM
I think I may already hate you for this. I had only seen this strategy a few times so far but I think it will catch on once people realize you cannot see shtako while on fire.

Nooooooooooooooooooooo dont hate meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!! :D

Skidoosh
04-17-2013, 09:49 AM
The shotguns are OP more than just for the reason of small maps. They do high damage which is to be expected from shotguns but there is very little penalty for missing a shot especially when paired with cloak.

The pump action shotguns have a very tight spread and the problem with them is how fast they fire, the pump is way too quick allowing you to spray and pray a very high damage weapon. A pump action shotgun needs to penalize you for missing a shot with a decent "pump time".

Auto shotty's or the burst shottys whatever have massive clip sizes which people run around spraying them like an LMG and a reasonably tight spread along with a clip reload. Auto shotguns need to have a wider spread or less damage to compensate for covering the entire screen with pellets.

Sawed-off's stand alone I cant complain about, sure getting 1 shot is annoying but if they miss they are extremely punished with an epic reload time. BUT! When paired with cloak this is insanely OP. Because the ego power RE-cloaks you after firing your shot you are invisible while reloading your gun, thus negating this weakness and pretty much guaranteeing not only the kill for the guy you cloaked up to but whoever is near him for the duration of the cloak. Not to mention the absurd buffs like "do more dmg while cloaked".

Adjust the pump time on pump action shotguns.
Widen the spread of auto shotguns and maybe reduce dmg so its not so effective at medium range.
Maybe make cloak not re-cloak you after you fire a shot?

I dunno pretty simple fixes in my opinion without having to completely change the shotguns and what they are.

If you honestly believe at their current state they are not OP you are fooling yourself especially when paired with cloak that is the superior PVP power at the moment. Im not saying they need an overhaul, but adding these minor tweaks would at LEAST give the other guns a chance to be effective.

Honved
04-17-2013, 12:19 PM
As a BF3 player I completely understand. I've been gaming for well over 15 years, since Quake 1, and I understand that shotties are allabout CQC, but I had no issues with them in Counter-Strike(all versions) or any other game, hell, even in BF3 I had no issues in CQC, but in Defiance I find them slightly OP. I could handle the shotty that takes 2 shots simultaneously(sawed off shotgun) then needing a reload killing me in 1 hit, but all the others is just nuts. I've got a shield that can take 1600 dmg then my HP with the HP booster Perk and still get 1 hit killed. If they are going to make shotty this OP how about some more love for the infectors, give them some more dmg and allot more range, then Ill shut my mouth.

I'm hopping shotties get toned down a slight bit, not crazy down, but a bit, no weapon should deal 1 shot kill unless hit in the face.

Sawed off oranges and purples can have up to 4-6 rounds. It's hysterical.