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View Full Version : If Nim or Jackleg Joe get nerfed...



Lasse B
04-15-2013, 02:47 AM
... is there going to be special rewards for those players who have defeated these bosses before they were put into wuss mode?

Serious question.

I think it's kinda unfair to let players who managed to pull off the seemingly impossible go without tokens of appreciation for their accomplishments. They did after all put more effort into it.

B_Draco
04-15-2013, 02:49 AM
... is there going to be special rewards for those players who have defeated these bosses before they were put into wuss mode?

Serious question.

I think it's kinda unfair to let players who managed to pull off the seemingly impossible go without tokens of appreciation for their accomplishments. They did after all put more effort into it.

People will just move on to another boss to complain about... Nim is easy with blurr or overcharge.

Kane
04-15-2013, 02:53 AM
if i follow the previous mmo's i played...i would say no, you get nothing...the latest example would be GW2, they made the "hardest dungeon" easy, and even tho i (and many others) finished the dungeon, you still get crap as a reward, you only get your success diminished by letting others do the same thing ...

Same here, nim has been beaten by more people than there are whiners on the forum, so that means that the boss is doable, but on the count of lesser skilled players, we are going to get the honor of getting the achievement (personal one) diminished...

Drandorion
04-15-2013, 03:01 AM
if i follow the previous mmo's i played...i would say no, you get nothing...the latest example would be GW2, they made the "hardest dungeon" easy, and even tho i (and many others) finished the dungeon, you still get crap as a reward, you only get your success diminished by letting others do the same thing ...

Same here, nim has been beaten by more people than there are whiners on the forum, so that means that the boss is doable, but on the count of lesser skilled players, we are going to get the honor of getting the achievement (personal one) diminished...

This mentality makes me facepalm. Are you seriously telling me that if you can't wave your epeen around in others faces that you are not happy?

Nim is a boss for the main story. Everyone should be able to do this. Joe Average getting to down Nim has zero effect on you. It's not like this somehow magically removes your achievement or the associated ego points that go along with it.

Before the standard "your just bad" reply comes out, I did complete the main story in defiance. Even did that "hardest dungeon" before it was nerfed in GW2.

Jack Johnson
04-15-2013, 03:09 AM
They aren't even that hard though, that's the sad part. Why does everything solo have to be easy? I don't get it. In MMOs it is ok to make hard group boss battles, but a hard solo battle? WOW BUDDY STOP RIGHT THERE. I guess people don't want to have to accept that they need to try harder.

Dandrielas
04-15-2013, 03:17 AM
Wait. People had trouble with Jackleg Joe? He was easy. All you had to do was hit the little fire dudes and dodge his grenades when he jumped down.

Exlor
04-15-2013, 03:21 AM
Wait. People had trouble with Jackleg Joe? He was easy. All you had to do was hit the little fire dudes and dodge his grenades when he jumped down.

Same thing. Nim is also ridiculously easy with a proper strategy. Regardless of your perks and EGO powers, Nim can't hit you worth a damn with his melee or ranged attacks if you keep dodging and jumping. Just equip a sawed-off shotgun and go all hit-and-run on him. That will kill him easily.

Ravzar
04-15-2013, 03:22 AM
I am not up to Nim yet but I don't think jackleg joe is overpowered. People I think got used to low DPI realistic FPS and are not great at twitch based gameplay.

FriendlyStranger
04-15-2013, 03:29 AM
This mentality makes me facepalm. Are you seriously telling me that if you can't wave your epeen around in others faces that you are not happy?

Nim is a boss for the main story. Everyone should be able to do this. Joe Average getting to down Nim has zero effect on you. It's not like this somehow magically removes your achievement or the associated ego points that go along with it.

Before the standard "your just bad" reply comes out, I did complete the main story in defiance. Even did that "hardest dungeon" before it was nerfed in GW2.
For most people it has nothing to do with "epeen" or ego or whatever else you want to call it. It's the catering to people because they're whining just so shut them up. It's one of those problems that's a serious problem for every industry, every society, everyone, everywhere. The (minority) of kids cry because they don't want to put in the same time and effort everyone else has, and they get it handed to them. How would you feel if (Now this is going to be a very extreme example) you had no parents, worked your way through college, on up to a masters, put decades of time and effort into your career and to get the job you want, finally get it, and some random bum off the street who has never worked a day in his life and can't operate a battery operated toothbrush (Not a reference to him being dirty btw) gets the exact same job, simply because he stood outside and whined about it. It's insulting, and a disgusting practice. I for one would like to see a developer put quality of product and brand over easy profit, and tell that vocal minority to suck it up or leave the game. Now, Defiance is a bit unique in the regard that it is more of a people pleaser, but that doesn't change the issue. If most people, which data will likely support, can complete it, why change it?


I am not up to Nim yet but I don't think jackleg joe is overpowered. People I think got used to low DPI realistic FPS and are not great at twitch based gameplay.

I'd kind of like to know what games you are referring to. >__>

dodmayhem
04-15-2013, 03:29 AM
I had a lot of issues with Jack Leg joe. Mainly due to the fact that any shield that has a 9.6 second recharge delay just sucks so much its pointless. Because no matter how much capacity your shield has they will bring it down and quickly too. Better off with a short recharge delay so you don't have to hide in cover as much.

Rhorge
04-15-2013, 03:34 AM
As long as some actually challenging side quests are added (I found Nim and Joe really easy) I don't care about nerfs to main missions.

Jenelle
04-15-2013, 03:34 AM
People I think got used to low DPI realistic FPS and are not great at twitch based gameplay.

This cannot be emphasized enough.

Most games in the last several years hasn't required you to do much more than post up on cover and shoot with your silky smooth aim. Combining movement to dodge stuff and finding cover all while shooting has people confused cause that's all that is required for either fight. :eek:

It's cliché, but learn to play applies.

Multigun
04-15-2013, 03:35 AM
Are they really going to nerf the final boss? I didn't see that in any patch notes. I really hope not, I was looking forward to a good hard fight for once...

Vuule
04-15-2013, 03:37 AM
If they're going to nerf him, I don't see why we should get some sort of reward.

Drake
04-15-2013, 03:38 AM
People will just move on to another boss to complain about... Nim is easy with blurr or overcharge.

he is easy with everything .... super easy indeed easier a rnd enemy in max payne 3 xD

Lenko
04-15-2013, 03:38 AM
So because we beat an easy boss and they made it easier; you want a Gold star to put on your chest?

lol.

Evilution
04-15-2013, 03:47 AM
I beat him and although he was frustrating until I figured out his patterns and call outs before he does certain attacks, I really enjoyed the difficulty at the end. I wouldn't begrudge them making it less of a challenge for other players, I have already done it, why do I care if they had it toned down, it's there decision and if it's ruining others enjoyment of the game, then they have a right to ask. The game as been made casual friendly and maybe some of these players can't get the knack of it like others, we also got a reward at the end, a pistol (even though not great imo), it is one of two purple rewards that I got out of the story and episode missions in game.

Froggyman
04-15-2013, 03:51 AM
There are different levels of skill, in any game you can possibly name. Just because a boss is easy for YOU, does not make them easy. You have to look at the numbers. How many people are getting through this part of the game, how many people get stuck, and for how long, and all that jazz. I'm sure they have a way of monitoring those kinds of things, and they'll adjust it if they need to adjust it.

Generally speaking however, adjusting content because players are having a hard time with it is not the end of the world. Especially if the minority is actually the majority. There are definitely times where a fight is just plain made poorly, or unfair. I do not PERSONALLY believe that either one of these bosses is very difficult. Nim is definitely harder than Jack, and he is somewhat of a decent challenge if you do not know what you are doing, or what to look for. But I have played shooters for most of my life, I EXPECT to be pretty good at them.

Sometimes though, you've just got to be patient, and gain skill over time. No one wants to be stuck on a boss for days, or weeks, but an hour or two isn't unheard of. In fact, anyone who's ever owned a Nintendo will tell you that an hour or two of trying is a breeze compared to some of the stuff out there.

You WILL get better over time. Everyone does. But if there IS a real problem, they'll be able to see it, and again, if it needs adjusting, it will be.

Ralifur
04-15-2013, 03:52 AM
This cannot be emphasized enough.

Most games in the last several years hasn't required you to do much more than post up on cover and shoot with your silky smooth aim. Combining movement to dodge stuff and finding cover all while shooting has people confused cause that's all that is required for either fight. :eek:

It's cliché, but learn to play applies.

Those arent games you are talking about. Those are interactive movies. :-)

Drandorion
04-15-2013, 03:54 AM
For most people it has nothing to do with "epeen" or ego or whatever else you want to call it. It's the catering to people because they're whining just so shut them up. It's one of those problems that's a serious problem for every industry, every society, everyone, everywhere. The (minority) of kids cry because they don't want to put in the same time and effort everyone else has, and they get it handed to them. How would you feel if (Now this is going to be a very extreme example) you had no parents, worked your way through college, on up to a masters, put decades of time and effort into your career and to get the job you want, finally get it, and some random bum off the street who has never worked a day in his life and can't operate a battery operated toothbrush (Not a reference to him being dirty btw) gets the exact same job, simply because he stood outside and whined about it. It's insulting, and a disgusting practice. I for one would like to see a developer put quality of product and brand over easy profit, and tell that vocal minority to suck it up or leave the game. Now, Defiance is a bit unique in the regard that it is more of a people pleaser, but that doesn't change the issue. If most people, which data will likely support, can complete it, why change it?


Where is this data? I'm sure Trion has ways of tracking these things and if as you suggest that the overwhelming majority of players can in fact beat Nim they probably won't nerf him (I'd also eat my hat). However, I suspect that to not be the case. As Nim is part of THE MAIN STORY (all caps cause that's kinda important), then the majority of players should be able to complete him and if that means a nerf to him well so be it.

Your example is very silly. This is not a job, it's a recreational activity. Not once in any advertising did I see any hardcore elements being showcased as selling points. If anything the game went out of its way to emphasize the cooperative nature and group play that the game offered. So what does this have to do with anything? Well, right away anyone who is familiar with mmo's would know that means that this game isn't going to be super challenging.

This is not a super hard core, beat your chest cause your more manly than everyone else game. Why? Well because Trion wanted a broad audience and super hardcore games don't pull in that many players (relatively speaking). If this was some kind of hardcore shooter then ya, whiners can just gtf0.

Last thing I want to mention is that the difficulty of the boss is completely subjective. What was easy for you might not be for someone else. I'm assuming you are a good shooter player here, If you are in actuality terrible and really struggled with this fight I apologize.

Ralifur
04-15-2013, 03:59 AM
On another note. I think monopoly is too hard! I dont wanna adjust to it. I just want the basic rules changed so I get more starting money and wont have to worry about going bankrupt!

dodmayhem
04-15-2013, 04:02 AM
I am used to this. I mean my clan in WoW went and did Obsidian Sanctum 25 man hard mode. We got the Twilight Vanquisher titles. Well two expansions later people are 4 manning it in 30 seconds. It sucks but hey there is a date on my achievement for when I got the title...and thats when it was hard as balls.

If you know you did it when it was difficult or when it was harder than it currently is, you can tell people that and I would be satisfied with it.

Drandorion
04-15-2013, 04:03 AM
On another note. I think monopoly is too hard! I dont wanna adjust to it. I just want the basic rules changed so I get more starting money and wont have to worry about going bankrupt!

When I play monopoly with some of my younger cousins who aren't super good at the game I give them more starting money and allow them to purchase property at a discount to help them stay in the game. It actually makes it more fun for everyone playing.:cool:

Ralifur
04-15-2013, 04:07 AM
When I play monopoly with some of my younger cousins who aren't super good at the game I give them more starting money and allow them to purchase property at a discount to help them stay in the game. It actually makes it more fun for everyone playing.:cool:

Is actually what my comment referred to even tho it might have sounded like a sarcastic remark. But I was actually hinting towards what you wrote.
I personally dont care about nim or jack getting a nerf. Ive done them myself as they are now and had no issues and knowing ive done them like this is enough for me. I dont see all this stuff about bragging being so important but society is going to hell nowadays and is so individualistic. People dont play mmo's to have fun with other people. No they play mmo's to have people around so they can boost their own egocentric achievments and feel like they get acknowledged.
But because it is all turning so individualistic then this so called "craving" of getting acknowledged this way will only get stronger as no one will acknowledge you in any way. :-)

Kurze
04-15-2013, 04:07 AM
pull off the seemingly impossible
lulzworthy

about the topic at hand, I suppose your prize is knowing your not a drooling mongoloid with less twitch skills than a rock, because one has to be just that to have a hard time with any bosses in this game

squidgod2000
04-15-2013, 04:12 AM
I don't understand what people find so challenging about Nim. Yeah, compared to your average mob he's tough, but he's not that tough.

MirrorStream
04-15-2013, 04:12 AM
Haven't made it to Nim yet, but Jackleg Joe was walk in the park. What pathetic loosers are asking to nerf him? О_о

FriendlyStranger
04-15-2013, 04:13 AM
Where is this data? I'm sure Trion has ways of tracking these things and if as you suggest that the overwhelming majority of players can in fact beat Nim they probably won't nerf him (I'd also eat my hat). However, I suspect that to not be the case. As Nim is part of THE MAIN STORY (all caps cause that's kinda important), then the majority of players should be able to complete him and if that means a nerf to him well so be it.

Your example is very silly. This is not a job, it's a recreational activity. Not once in any advertising did I see any hardcore elements being showcased as selling points. If anything the game went out of its way to emphasize the cooperative nature and group play that the game offered. So what does this have to do with anything? Well, right away anyone who is familiar with mmo's would know that means that this game isn't going to be super challenging.

This is not a super hard core, beat your chest cause your more manly than everyone else game. Why? Well because Trion wanted a broad audience and super hardcore games don't pull in that many players (relatively speaking). If this was some kind of hardcore shooter then ya, whiners can just gtf0.

Last thing I want to mention is that the difficulty of the boss is completely subjective. What was easy for you might not be for someone else. I'm assuming you are a good shooter player here, If you are in actuality terrible and really struggled with this fight I apologize.

I guess the point here is that it is subjective, and if they are nerfing it because people aren't able to complete it, well, is it the people who are soloing it that find it that difficult, or groups who are actually cooperating? If they make the battles easier for those who are going it alone, then it lessens the experience and need of cooperation. If they scale it down to the point that anyone, with any build, and any weapon, by themselves can just roll around and win, what fun is there, or point, to take it on as a group?

EnabrimGFC
04-15-2013, 04:14 AM
They aren't even that hard though, that's the sad part. Why does everything solo have to be easy? I don't get it. In MMOs it is ok to make hard group boss battles, but a hard solo battle? WOW BUDDY STOP RIGHT THERE. I guess people don't want to have to accept that they need to try harder.

Everything is hard when compared to wizards 101. Welcome to the real world.

Nidien
04-15-2013, 04:14 AM
I still can't figure out wtf the problem with Nim or Jackleg is and why people are calling for a nerf. I hadn't a clue as to what I was doing and with the purple AR you get from the Episode missions, Decoy, and a blue shield that has 0 elemental resist I was able to take him down with 4 deaths through the 3 phases.

So WTF is exactly the problem? I don't get it..and probably never will. The hardest boss people have EVER fought? What seems to be the problem? People can't move? They can't figure out how to hit alt and dodge? What am I missing?

Kurze
04-15-2013, 04:17 AM
This has to be some weird demented joke.
some people are really THAT BAD at games

amazing, I know, but veridic. prolly my dog is better than them at games

Jafo
04-15-2013, 04:21 AM
I haven't done Nim yet, but jackleg did take me several attempts...until I read some strategies. Easy as heck after that.

Drandorion
04-15-2013, 04:22 AM
Is actually what my comment referred to even tho it might have sounded like a sarcastic remark. But I was actually hinting towards what you wrote.

O.o Your wit was too good for me sir (being serious), went right over my head. Your one of the good ones, hope to see you ingame some time. :o


I guess the point here is that it is subjective, and if they are nerfing it because people aren't able to complete it, well, is it the people who are soloing it that find it that difficult, or groups who are actually cooperating? If they make the battles easier for those who are going it alone, then it lessens the experience and need of cooperation. If they scale it down to the point that anyone, with any build, and any weapon, by themselves can just roll around and win, what fun is there, or point, to take it on as a group?

I was under the impression that the Nim battle was only doable solo... Is it possible to bring a group into that?

Rhorge
04-15-2013, 04:26 AM
I was under the impression that the Nim battle was only doable solo... Is it possible to bring a group into that?

The impression you were under was correct, solo only.

FriendlyStranger
04-15-2013, 04:33 AM
If it is just solo, and they do end up making it uber easy, why have a fight at all? Games are entertaining, and should present a challenge. Easy entertainment is why they developed television, and interactive movies.

Nidien
04-15-2013, 04:35 AM
some people are really THAT BAD at games

amazing, I know, but veridic. prolly my dog is better than them at games

It's crazy. I thought for certain people were trying the co-op maps solo or something..I hadn't a clue as to what people were talking about until I put 2 and 2 together and realized they were talking about the 2 bosses in the main portion of the story. Then my brain melted and shut down for a second..trying to process how exactly so many people are calling for a nerf. Just WOW.

Seriously..the guy has like 3 moves.

When he warps at you and goes up to drop the AOE roll 3 times to get enough distance and turn and fire.

When he does his charge..wait a second and dodge..once he does it the 3-4 times and stops..start unloading on him.

When he splits into the upper rafters..shoot as many as you can while standing by the ammo refill to avoid the ones above you and when the knives come..just...dodge again.

When he warps into the glass cylinder run to the ammo refill..wait until the walls pop up and blast as many as you can. Again..when he warps to you..roll 3 times..turn and fire.

I stayed on the side with the ammo refill with the two pillars the entire time. When he splits and you have 3-4 decoys running at you just spray and pray..they take like 4 shots to get to disappear and then eventually you'll find the correct one.

Fire balls..just use a pillar and dodge..you may get hit but you have the shield they should be a non-issue even though I noticed some went around the pillars.

People screaming they need legendary gear and or filled with purps and still can't do it..I've yet to even see a legendary let alone loot one..and I have 2 purple guns both from mission rewards..this is insanity...and Jackleg...not even getting into that one..other than..have the little clowns run at you..wait a second then dodge..turn and put 3 rounds into their back..simple and simple gets. I think people really need to stop relying on shotguns so damn much which seems to be a large common denominator here and/or..just play the game and learn..only way you are going to get better. Nerfing something doesn't make you better..because then the same people will call for nerfs the entire time they play this game...get a weapon and give yourself some space. Come on people..it's not hard AT ALL. I just can't process how this is such a wide spread problem.

MirrorStream
04-15-2013, 04:38 AM
So WTF is exactly the problem? I don't get it..and probably never will. The hardest boss people have EVER fought? What seems to be the problem? People can't move? They can't figure out how to hit alt and dodge? What am I missing?
The problem is some "gamers" can't find x button which they could hit to win in this game.

Greycut
04-15-2013, 04:40 AM
Jackleg was just tedious. Made worse because my AI partner never stopped shouting at me through the entire thing. I hope any new boss fights the game has coming show a little more imagination, especially when it comes to co-op.

ndamm
04-15-2013, 04:43 AM
... is there going to be special rewards for those players who have defeated these bosses before they were put into wuss mode?

Serious question.

I think it's kinda unfair to let players who managed to pull off the seemingly impossible go without tokens of appreciation for their accomplishments. They did after all put more effort into it.

I would rather play him on hardmode than easymode. So im just happy that i had the opportunity if they decide to nerf them. No need to be rewarded for having a bit of difficulty in a relatively easy game.

Roflmaowtf
04-15-2013, 04:46 AM
None of the bosses are hard, if people seriously need a nerf in order to beat them then they must be really terrible at games.

CommissarSCV
04-15-2013, 04:52 AM
They've stated that they rely on in game metrics versus complainers on forums. They are attempting to avoid changes based on the vocal minority. If there really is a high disproportionate amount having trouble on a boss they will nerf it, if not, they won't.

Ravzar
04-15-2013, 05:03 AM
I'd kind of like to know what games you are referring to. >__>

Twitch based shooters are completely unrealistic games where you have shields, power ups, often alien tech, and clearly impossible physics. Unreal Tournament 3 and Halo are examples. Defiance is a game like this too. Games like COD are not.

Man With No Name
04-15-2013, 05:07 AM
This whole topic is becoming ridiculous. I've taken harder deuces than this fight.

Death Strike
04-15-2013, 05:08 AM
Nim and Jackleg aren't hard, just long and boring. Nim you can climb the ladder, run up behind him and melee him to death. He won't do anything, especially when you get him near a ledge, close to the ladder (which he won't fall off of). The hardest thing is when you have two tankers rubber banding around you and destroying you cuz you don't know where the heck they are half the time.

FriendlyStranger
04-15-2013, 05:13 AM
Twitch based shooters are completely unrealistic games where you have shields, power ups, often alien tech, and clearly impossible physics. Unreal Tournament 3 and Halo are examples. Defiance is a game like this too. Games like COD are not.

Idk http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_725537&feature=iv&src_vid=EF0q9T5JuGk&v=uDh6zKmkiFE Looks pretty darned twitchy to me. Especially when compared to a more realistic fps.

Haffoc
04-15-2013, 05:19 AM
This cannot be emphasized enough.

Most games in the last several years hasn't required you to do much more than post up on cover and shoot with your silky smooth aim. Combining movement to dodge stuff and finding cover all while shooting has people confused cause that's all that is required for either fight. :eek:

It's cliché, but learn to play applies.

Have any of you considered that those with dexterity issues or disabilities find twitch and dodge based gameplay very difficult and in many cases physically painful?

Those people have paid the same money as you, and have just as much right to complete the game.

What difference does it make to you if the fight is hard or easy? Apart from the ability of saying "I found it easy so shut up noob"?

We are talking about a single player encounter, the result of which has no impact on your own game. The reward isn't that impressive, nor will anyone gain an advantage from betting the boss, regardless of how easy the encounter is.

6Strummer
04-15-2013, 05:24 AM
Have any of you considered that those with dexterity issues or disabilities find twitch and dodge based gameplay very difficult and in many cases physically painful?

Those people have paid the same money as you, and have just as much right to complete the game.

What difference does it make to you if the fight is hard or easy? Apart from the ability of saying "I found it easy so shut up noob"?

We are talking about a single player encounter, the result of which has no impact on your own game. The reward isn't that impressive, nor will anyone gain an advantage from betting the boss, regardless of how easy the encounter is.

I don't think either boss is tough enough to warrant some extra reward or bragging rights, and I don't care if they're nerfed, but maybe the people you mention should have checked out what kind of game they were buying before they bought it. That also goes for people complaining that Defiance isn't a MMORPG.

littlejay
04-15-2013, 05:29 AM
Nim was tough for me because of the lag last night. Half the room would disappear on me and I wouldn't be able to see the boss at all.

As for people getting rewards for already beating the bosses...That's not going to happen. You beat the game before the others, good for you? There are plenty of other things to accomplish in the game to make yourself feel special. If it was so easy for you, and it get's nerfed, why do you want a reward if you thought it was easy? :confused:

Athanos
04-15-2013, 05:39 AM
This mentality makes me facepalm. Are you seriously telling me that if you can't wave your epeen around in others faces that you are not happy?

Nim is a boss for the main story. Everyone should be able to do this. Joe Average getting to down Nim has zero effect on you. It's not like this somehow magically removes your achievement or the associated ego points that go along with it.

Before the standard "your just bad" reply comes out, I did complete the main story in defiance. Even did that "hardest dungeon" before it was nerfed in GW2.

Ego 300ish when I beat nim..

DeMoted
04-15-2013, 05:42 AM
... is there going to be special rewards for those players who have defeated these bosses before they were put into wuss mode?

Serious question.

I think it's kinda unfair to let players who managed to pull off the seemingly impossible go without tokens of appreciation for their accomplishments. They did after all put more effort into it.

Hahahaha always wanting rewards... Killing him is not enough

glyth
04-15-2013, 05:55 AM
People will just move on to another boss to complain about... Nim is easy with blurr or overcharge.

so basicly what you said Cloak is never going to work

Recon_avwf
04-15-2013, 06:04 AM
I found them easy myself but I can see why people struggle with them. I will say tho I dont think they should be nerfed their bosses and should have an element of difficulty.

Dagbiker
04-15-2013, 06:07 AM
Have any of you considered that those with dexterity issues or disabilities find twitch and dodge based gameplay very difficult and in many cases physically painful?

Those people have paid the same money as you, and have just as much right to complete the game.

What difference does it make to you if the fight is hard or easy? Apart from the ability of saying "I found it easy so shut up noob"?

We are talking about a single player encounter, the result of which has no impact on your own game. The reward isn't that impressive, nor will anyone gain an advantage from betting the boss, regardless of how easy the encounter is.

I agree with you, and I like, and respect the fact that you are thinking of others. But, from my own experience, and from people I know, people with disabilities will usually research a game before they buy, mostly because they need to know, more then the average user, if a game is for them.

For those reasons you listed. For example, a girl I know would ask on the forums, or often ask people she knew had the game and ask them if they had remappable controler support.

I do think some of the fights are very hard, because of the mechanics, but I also think that the mechanics are the only things that should really change. I do not think they should change the gameplay to fit an audience that might not be there.

Conneri
04-15-2013, 06:19 AM
The only change needed is supporting multiplayer for those fights. I'd happily carry anyone through them if they asked for help. Unfortunately, it's a single player instance.

Lasse B
04-15-2013, 06:24 AM
Hahahaha always wanting rewards... Killing him is not enough
It's not actually about the reward, it's about setting oneself apart from "less deserving" players. They actually are deserving less if they only manage to beat either boss after these get nerfed. If they get nerfed, that is.

Games are always about players competing with each other, either directly in PvP, or indirectly in PvE. Results are compared afterwards. If an armor saying "I beat Jackleg Joe and Nim while they were difficult (as in "more difficult than now") and all I got was this lousy armor" is all we'd get I'd be perfectly fine.

Hawkler
04-15-2013, 07:15 AM
Jackleg was very easy for me. Didn't even die once.

Nim I had just gotten to. Tried it once. Died a few times, but simply ran out of time to continue trying to figure him out for that day. Someone recommended I wait till I'm about 550 or so. I was like 495. I can already tell I will not care for this one. A mission where I'll be spending a majority of my time dodging I do not find fun.

DeMoted
04-15-2013, 07:22 AM
so basicly what you said Cloak is never going to work

I used cloak and beat him first try.

DeMoted
04-15-2013, 07:22 AM
It's not actually about the reward, it's about setting oneself apart from "less deserving" players. They actually are deserving less if they only manage to beat either boss after these get nerfed. If they get nerfed, that is.

Games are always about players competing with each other, either directly in PvP, or indirectly in PvE. Results are compared afterwards. If an armor saying "I beat Jackleg Joe and Nim while they were difficult (as in "more difficult than now") and all I got was this lousy armor" is all we'd get I'd be perfectly fine.

Hahahahaha

Rizaun
04-15-2013, 07:25 AM
If they made these easy bosses even easier, I fear for the future of the game.

AddictedNoob
04-15-2013, 07:34 AM
After whipping my controller at the wall a few times and watching a few TV shows of TWD I was able to defeat Nim by using a pistol that shoots out explosive rounds with overcharge. I agree that Nim should not be set into wimp mode.

TRAP
04-15-2013, 07:35 AM
If they nerf any of these bosses they might aswell nerf the whole game because you can't have bullworks and the grenande launcher guy for 99er's etc tougher than the bosses.

MrSpaM
04-15-2013, 07:38 AM
This whole thread is stupid on so many levels. MMO bosses are made so that everybody can beat them. If a lot of people complain about a certain boss being too difficult it'll get nerfed, it's as simple as that. People are baffled that this part of the game forces you to do it solo, and forces you right back to the start every time you fail. I think people have a right to complain about an issue they have with a multiplayer only game that forces them to do part of it single player. I for one didn't buy this for a single player experience. Every mission in this game should be able to be played with friends, that's the whole point of the game! If i'd have wanted to play a single player game I'd have just gone and played through Mass Effect 3 again!

Taaltos
04-15-2013, 07:41 AM
Nim's been nerfed once.

DeMoted
04-15-2013, 07:41 AM
If they nerf any of these bosses they might aswell nerf the whole game because you can't have bullworks and the grenande launcher guy for 99er's etc tougher than the bosses.

They aren't... Just play better.

TRAP
04-15-2013, 07:43 AM
This whole thread is stupid on so many levels. MMO bosses are made so that everybody can beat them. If a lot of people complain about a certain boss being too difficult it'll get nerfed, it's as simple as that. People are baffled that this part of the game forces you to do it solo, and forces you right back to the start every time you fail. I think people have a right to complain about an issue they have with a multiplayer only game that forces them to do part of it single player. I for one didn't buy this for a single player experience. Every mission in this game should be able to be played with friends, that's the whole point of the game! If i'd have wanted to play a single player game I'd have just gone and played through Mass Effect 3 again!

Alright then they should make it harder but you can play with you're friends.

Evilution
04-15-2013, 07:43 AM
This whole thread is stupid on so many levels. MMO bosses are made so that everybody can beat them. If a lot of people complain about a certain boss being too difficult it'll get nerfed, it's as simple as that. People are baffled that this part of the game forces you to do it solo, and forces you right back to the start every time you fail. I think people have a right to complain about an issue they have with a multiplayer only game that forces them to do part of it single player. I for one didn't buy this for a single player experience. Every mission in this game should be able to be played with friends, that's the whole point of the game! If i'd have wanted to play a single player game I'd have just gone and played through Mass Effect 3 again!You don't restart back at the beginning of the fight, when I fought Nim I only died in the last phase and it restarted me at that phase each time.

Ciannon
04-15-2013, 07:43 AM
The problem is that the player who cries the loudest, gets their diaper changed. That is why WoW is notorious for going into easy mode after a boss has been out for a month.

TRAP
04-15-2013, 07:45 AM
They aren't... Just play better.

Wait...I already beat this game so I hope you're not telling me to "play better"

DeMoted
04-15-2013, 07:47 AM
The problem is that the player who cries the loudest, gets their diaper changed. That is why WoW is notorious for going into easy mode after a boss has been out for a month.

Kind of why I wish MMOs had the same player base it used to. Never even heard of the word nerf till the baddies starting realizing how awesome MMOs were.

Ciannon
04-15-2013, 07:48 AM
Kind of why I wish MMOs had the same player base it used to. Never even heard of the word nerf till the baddies starting realizing how awesome MMOs were.

Yup. I really wish we could get the original developers for DAoC, EQ, and SWG together and create a super power. :).

Also,

I could only imagine how pissed off todays player base would be if we had to play a game in which you deleveled when you died.

Jarrick
04-15-2013, 07:57 AM
If they made these easy bosses even easier, I fear for the future of the game.

Thats how i feel about now, beat jackleg on the first try Nim on the third try as decoy with a assault rifle and it felt like a accomplishment. if their going to start nerfing bosses down so people can just run in kill them easy and be done with it whats the point of doing it in the first place. just because some players cant do it on their first shot they start to bring down the difficulty ruining the challenge because of the more vocal few then the people off the forums and actually enjoying the game.

Brings me to the arkfall thing with idiots not letting the bug open weak spots in the crystals to end it easier, driving around in circles killing them all. In their mind its their game they can do what they want, in mine its griefing ruining other players enjoyment by dragging on events and possibly causing a loss.


Eitherway if they start dumbing down the game now within its first month, it wont be pretty in the future, i agree

cluggy
04-15-2013, 07:59 AM
ive read alot of people crying coz of this nim fight, it really isnt THAT hard, ran about like a headless chicken with a pistol (fast firing, low recoil, dont have to ADS) for the first section. 2nd part used an AR while hugging the pillers close to the ammo, making sure to retreat behind the pillar when he uses that nippy jump in the air multiple orange shot thingy then for the final stage run between the two pillars and take shots at him whenever i had the opportunity. had on overcharge, sure it took a while but died once on the first second stages none on the last (did use self revive though) actually died more times getting to him than i did fighting with him. a game isnt supposed to be something you can just breeze through, its supposed to challenge you, its supposed to make you feel like you have accomplished an amazing feat, i dont like being one of those guys that say 'your just crap' but if your stuck on a bit, go out and train, hone your skills and grab that sense of accomplishment by the balls while your beating the crap out of that cyborg ****** Nim.

Jarrick
04-15-2013, 08:00 AM
The problem is that the player who cries the loudest, gets their diaper changed. That is why WoW is notorious for going into easy mode after a boss has been out for a month.

Exactly its always the vocal few that end up tearing a game down while the majority are online playing happily

cluggy
04-15-2013, 08:01 AM
wait i cant say ******???? can i say it like doosh? yey, spelt wrong, but yeah i said nims a doosh

RoG Goat
04-15-2013, 08:03 AM
No, there won't be.
And there shouldn't be.

cfStatic
04-15-2013, 08:05 AM
People will just move on to another boss to complain about... Nim is easy with blurr or overcharge.

Or cloak, or decoy, or with both hands tied behind my back and playing with my feet. The fight is not hard at all as long as you have more than 0 amount of pattern recognition.

Cutlass Jack
04-15-2013, 08:07 AM
Exactly its always the vocal few that end up tearing a game down while the majority are online playing happily

Which is is exactly why we're getting weapon nerfs because of a few PvP crybabies.:p

But seriously, the only real change I can see happening is removing the solo restriction on the encounter. Then its as as exactly as tough as you'd like it to be. And its a change that should happen since they are non-optional encounters, and more importantly because its an MMO.

If they don't do this then at least they should remove the entire encoutner resetting on the Jackleg one. That made the whole process more anoying than it needed to be.

ThyJester
04-15-2013, 08:08 AM
Wait a minute. Jackleg was hard? Since when?
That dude went down about as easy as a Tanker.
Haven't gotten to Nim yet though.

Ciannon
04-15-2013, 08:10 AM
Wait a minute. Jackleg was hard? Since when?
That dude went down about as easy as a Tanker.
Haven't gotten to Nim yet though.

Took me about 10 tries, but that's because I was in re**** mode. Once I realized I was in re**** mode, it was easy.

jasper murtagh
04-15-2013, 08:14 AM
Darn, I just started jackleg joe and I am having problems. Keep shooting the flamers too much.

Jarrick
04-15-2013, 08:17 AM
Which is is exactly why we're getting weapon nerfs because of a few PvP crybabies.:p

But seriously, the only real change I can see happening is removing the solo restriction on the encounter. Then its as as exactly as tough as you'd like it to be. And its a change that should happen since they are non-optional encounters, and more importantly because its an MMO.

If they don't do this then at least they should remove the entire encoutner resetting on the Jackleg one. That made the whole process more anoying than it needed to be.

i agree, the solo restrictions should really just be removed completely, if they want to try to act like this is a mmo, why force players to do their main missions solo?

Taaltos
04-15-2013, 08:17 AM
i agree, the solo restrictions should really just be removed completely, if they want to try to act like this is a mmo, why force players to do their main missions solo?

It's a character building mission.

Cutlass Jack
04-15-2013, 08:19 AM
Darn, I just started jackleg joe and I am having problems. Keep shooting the flamers too much.

Stand still a second Let the flaming dwarfs start their flamethrower animation at you. That locks them in place for the duration of the attack. Then roll out of the way of the flames and you'll have plenty of time to line up a shot on their tanks. Its not too bad once you get the timing down.

Cutlass Jack
04-15-2013, 08:19 AM
It's a character building mission.

You know what else is good for character building? Learning to play with others.:p

TRAP
04-15-2013, 08:22 AM
Took me about 10 tries, but that's because I was in re**** mode. Once I realized I was in re**** mode, it was easy.

Right LOL but it took me 2 because I kept killing the the waves of people and thought wait a second something is wrong here. Then died on purpose watched the cut scene before the fight started and you're suppose to shoot the little guys tanks on their backs once then he will run into the gas and blow up the shield.

Gojira
04-15-2013, 08:24 AM
People will just move on to another boss to complain about... Nim is easy with blurr or overcharge.

lol, i killed Nim with a cloak... really if u know how to avoid dmg and you use your brain and you are not 5 years old and complain each time when something is a little bit harder than killing ants, you are able to kill him without death.

Manx
04-15-2013, 08:28 AM
The simple solution would be to let the player choose the "difficulty" of thier solo missions.

People who just wants to enjoy the story could go "easy mode" and epeen people can go "hard mode"

In all seriousness tho, alot of if not most of the games we play today compared to the days of super mario bros etc.. most of them are NOT about beating the game, but instead about being fed a story with the "hassle" of having to complete some stuff while not watching cutscene's

There's a few reasons why games are not very "hardcore" theese days and the first that comes to mind is called MONEY.

Money wich is connected to the second wich is the simple fact that the "average" gamer of 2013 is FAR from as skilled as the average gamer was 20 years ago (the hardcore gamers are still hardcore tho)

give a gamer born 15-25 years ago a copy of supermario bros and they will say: WTF do you mean i have to start from the VERY beginning of the game when i'v died 3 times why are there no savepoints/checkpoints auto save or screengoesred ala cod and refuses to let me die modes

STORY ! the third is what games and gamers want from games in general seems to have changed from when i was a kid playing nintento and c64 etc. considering defiance is kind of "gamebreaking" in the area of making a game connected to a tv-series it's probably gonna change even more from here on.

TL;DR Games are made easy cus companies want money and the money comes mostly from the average gamer and they are per say NOT "hardcore"

FYI i Love Defiance :)

MirrorStream
04-15-2013, 08:31 AM
Have any of you considered that those with dexterity issues or disabilities find twitch and dodge based gameplay very difficult and in many cases physically painful?

Such people should find games more suitable for their condition.

Ciannon
04-15-2013, 08:39 AM
The simple solution would be to let the player choose the "difficulty" of thier solo missions.

People who just wants to enjoy the story could go "easy mode" and epeen people can go "hard mode"

In all seriousness tho, alot of if not most of the games we play today compared to the days of super mario bros etc.. most of them are NOT about beating the game, but instead about being fed a story with the "hassle" of having to complete some stuff while not watching cutscene's

There's a few reasons why games are not very "hardcore" theese days and the first that comes to mind is called MONEY.

Money wich is connected to the second wich is the simple fact that the "average" gamer of 2013 is FAR from as skilled as the average gamer was 20 years ago (the hardcore gamers are still hardcore tho)

give a gamer born 15-25 years ago a copy of supermario bros and they will say: WTF do you mean i have to start from the VERY beginning of the game when i'v died 3 times why are there no savepoints/checkpoints auto save or screengoesred ala cod and refuses to let me die modes

STORY ! the third is what games and gamers want from games in general seems to have changed from when i was a kid playing nintento and c64 etc. considering defiance is kind of "gamebreaking" in the area of making a game connected to a tv-series it's probably gonna change even more from here on.

TL;DR Games are made easy cus companies want money and the money comes mostly from the average gamer and they are per say NOT "hardcore"

FYI i Love Defiance :)

Agreed 100%, but the one thing they could change.... would be the way they go about "nerfing". I do not have a problem with nerfs, except for the fact that they only reason they are being nerfed is because, "GOD F****** D******** I can't beat this boss. Somoene throw me a bone and help me beat him. I need all the hand holding I can get, because I'm too stupid to stupid to do this myself" mentality. This is also why more schools are failing. If teachers are not giving the answers, students fail, and that blame is put back on the teachers. Why can't we live in a society where the bottom feeders have no say? Eh, that was a stupid analogy since we still provide welfare for drug addicted mothers who decide that 3 kids in 4 years is good thing even though any person with half a brain would realize that 7.25/hr isn't going to house and feed 4 people.

I kind of went off on a tangent, but my point is valid. :)

Asher King
04-15-2013, 08:39 AM
honestly, I found joe harder than nim due to Joe having mob help. died more to him than Nim, and I beat him with decoy and a purple FRC Saw. I treasure my Hero title more than Daredevil or VBI Operative. As I was taught long ago: Asswhoopins build Character, lol.

Ciannon
04-15-2013, 08:40 AM
Such people should find games more suitable for their condition.

That's a stupid idea. I would rather play a game 24/7 even though it is not suitable for me, and then ask the general population to use their taxes to pay for my medical bills.

Baerrwin
04-15-2013, 08:41 AM
... is there going to be special rewards for those players who have defeated these bosses before they were put into wuss mode?

Serious question.

I think it's kinda unfair to let players who managed to pull off the seemingly impossible go without tokens of appreciation for their accomplishments. They did after all put more effort into it.

What, you would then have bragging rights over the people who won the nerfed version. Why should you get something special?

wilks
04-15-2013, 08:43 AM
I would be fine with nerfing nim. Jackleg wasn't so bad. At least he was slow.

cluggy
04-15-2013, 08:43 AM
Have any of you considered that those with dexterity issues or disabilities find twitch and dodge based gameplay very difficult and in many cases physically painful?

Those people have paid the same money as you, and have just as much right to complete the game.

if i go and buy dark souls (i know many of you think it was easy, not the point. point is its notorious for being hard) should they have to lower their difficulty if i find it too hard while whinning like a 10year old? and to be honast why the hell would someone with dexterity issues or a disability be playing a "twitch and dodge based game" in the first place. i know you mean well, but c'mon son

jasper murtagh
04-15-2013, 08:45 AM
The simple solution would be to let the player choose the "difficulty" of thier solo missions.

People who just wants to enjoy the story could go "easy mode" and epeen people can go "hard mode"

...
..give a gamer born 15-25 years ago a copy of supermario bros and they will say: WTF do you mean i have to start from the VERY beginning of the game when i'v died 3 times why are there no savepoints/checkpoints auto save ..)

And a lot of us old enough to play PONG when it first drop were going WTF back then when we had to go back to level 1. Just because you were No Lifer then and a No Lifer now, just not means you were hardcore. Just had no life and plenty of time to play video games.

Cutlass Jack
04-15-2013, 08:46 AM
if i go and buy dark souls (i know many of you think it was easy, not the point. point is its notorious for being hard) should they have to lower their difficulty if i find it too hard while whinning like a 10year old? and to be honast why the hell would someone with dexterity issues or a disability be playing a "twitch and dodge based game" in the first place. i know you mean well, but c'mon son

Incredibly faulty comparison. Dark Souls is not an MMO designed around group play. And just because a player might have an issue that makes one type of activity in the game harder, it doesnt mean they dont do much better in other types of activities within the same game. Even among the non disabled, the game is alot more fun when grouping with people who cover your weak spots.

cluggy
04-15-2013, 08:47 AM
What, you would then have bragging rights over the people who won the nerfed version. Why should you get something special?
i think the point hes making is us that completed the 'un'nerfed version would be lumped together with the people that were crying themselves to sleep because of it, we deserve a token to show the others that we did (what many of you are calling it) the impossible

Skidapesh
04-15-2013, 08:52 AM
I have to admit, I did have trouble with Nim. I thought I could just go in with cloak and a sniper rifle.... not a bad idea just more challenging, but I continued to try with that set up for almost 2 hours. ( after the first few deaths it became more about proving to myself I can kill him with that set up and not change) I ended up dropping the mission to level up my sniping a little more. I'm sure if I used a different weapon and skill I could take him down, but I've played the entire game with this combo... not gonna give up just because it finally got challenging.

just incase it's not clear, I think Nim is harder than all the other bosses but I don't want him to change. the challenge is great, and I think the game could use a few more as tough as him... maybe even a group/ party version of someone like him.

cluggy
04-15-2013, 08:53 AM
Incredibly faulty comparison. Dark Souls is not an MMO designed around group play. And just because a player might have an issue that makes one type of activity in the game harder, it doesnt mean they dont do much better in other types of activities within the same game. Even among the non disabled, the game is alot more fun when grouping with people who cover your weak spots.

good one, i wasnt comparing dark souls to defiance. i was pointing out that the gameplay trailers show you that this is a dodge/twitch style game, (like how dark souls is notoriously difficult) now why would i buy this game if i cant play dodge/twitch styled games (why would i buy a game i knew was incredibly difficult) see where i was going with it?

Hawkler
04-15-2013, 08:57 AM
The simple solution would be to let the player choose the "difficulty" of thier solo missions.

People who just wants to enjoy the story could go "easy mode" and epeen people can go "hard mode"

In all seriousness tho, alot of if not most of the games we play today compared to the days of super mario bros etc.. most of them are NOT about beating the game, but instead about being fed a story with the "hassle" of having to complete some stuff while not watching cutscene's

There's a few reasons why games are not very "hardcore" theese days and the first that comes to mind is called MONEY.

Money wich is connected to the second wich is the simple fact that the "average" gamer of 2013 is FAR from as skilled as the average gamer was 20 years ago (the hardcore gamers are still hardcore tho)

give a gamer born 15-25 years ago a copy of supermario bros and they will say: WTF do you mean i have to start from the VERY beginning of the game when i'v died 3 times why are there no savepoints/checkpoints auto save or screengoesred ala cod and refuses to let me die modes

STORY ! the third is what games and gamers want from games in general seems to have changed from when i was a kid playing nintento and c64 etc. considering defiance is kind of "gamebreaking" in the area of making a game connected to a tv-series it's probably gonna change even more from here on.

TL;DR Games are made easy cus companies want money and the money comes mostly from the average gamer and they are per say NOT "hardcore"

FYI i Love Defiance :)


Agree. I believe in difficulty sliders. Plus if they simply allowed someone to bring a friend along (fine, up the difficulty as necessary) then I think that would solve some folks issues with the encounter.

ChaosOneX
04-15-2013, 08:58 AM
People will just move on to another boss to complain about... Nim is easy with blurr or overcharge.

I laughed every time he and his like 6 decoys would gather around my own decoy.

Really, Nim? you're going to hit the one that isn't shooting you?

littlejay
04-15-2013, 09:00 AM
If climb up a mountain and someone finds some stairs on the other side and gets to the top with you, should you be rewarded for your extra work? Your reward for beating the boss pre-nerf if self-fulfillment. Enjoy!

Demonsweat
04-15-2013, 09:01 AM
I'm so confused and yes, I am sober... Both were easy once you got their attack routines down. Are players these days so full of fail? Please tell me this discussion is a figment of my imagination.

RougeFighter
04-15-2013, 09:01 AM
... is there going to be special rewards for those players who have defeated these bosses before they were put into wuss mode?

Serious question.

I think it's kinda unfair to let players who managed to pull off the seemingly impossible go without tokens of appreciation for their accomplishments. They did after all put more effort into it.

i beat nim with only a BMG seemed impossible at first but got it done in first week of game

Cutlass Jack
04-15-2013, 09:03 AM
good one, i wasnt comparing dark souls to defiance. i was pointing out that the gameplay trailers show you that this is a dodge/twitch style game, (like how dark souls is notoriously difficult) now why would i buy this game if i cant play dodge/twitch styled games (why would i buy a game i knew was incredibly difficult) see where i was going with it?

But I was pointing out the gameplay trailers... *all* the gameplaytrailers...every friggin one....show what wonderfully massively multiplayer the game is with herds of players charging things. So its an incredibly reasonable expectation to nearly anyone plunking down $60 for this game that they'd be able to play it with other players.

So to have anyone get stuck, and unable to progress the main storyline due to being forced into a solo situation isnt really an acceptable situation, regardless of one's physical abilities. It really harms no one to let people bring a friend in to these missions. It will only improve their ability to work with others on the situations it does matter. (Like competitive and Co-Op situations)

Manx
04-15-2013, 09:07 AM
And a lot of us old enough to play PONG when it first drop were going WTF back then when we had to go back to level 1. Just because you were No Lifer then and a No Lifer now, just not means you were hardcore. Just had no life and plenty of time to play video games.

You sir, missed the whole point of my post. unless you are just simply stating that you are NOT hardcore and just a "no lifer" as you call it.

And if i missunderstood you, im sorry i tend to do that on forums thanks to my conditions :(

JammyThumbs
04-15-2013, 09:11 AM
Maybe I have been playing a different game?! Both Jackleg Joe and Nim are easy.

cluggy
04-15-2013, 09:24 AM
But I was pointing out the gameplay trailers... *all* the gameplaytrailers...every friggin one....show what wonderfully massively multiplayer the game is with herds of players charging things. So its an incredibly reasonable expectation to nearly anyone plunking down $60 for this game that they'd be able to play it with other players.

So to have anyone get stuck, and unable to progress the main storyline due to being forced into a solo situation isnt really an acceptable situation, regardless of one's physical abilities. It really harms no one to let people bring a friend in to these missions. It will only improve their ability to work with others on the situations it does matter. (Like competitive and Co-Op situations)
i agree, it should have been coop, but it shouldnt be less difficult. if anything it should be made coop then scale up.*sigh* tis silly to argue about this, the fact is that (for now) it IS that difficult and it IS a solo mission so if you dont like it... think you know the rest

Baerrwin
04-15-2013, 09:38 AM
I guess the point here is that it is subjective, and if they are nerfing it because people aren't able to complete it, well, is it the people who are soloing it that find it that difficult, or groups who are actually cooperating? If they make the battles easier for those who are going it alone, then it lessens the experience and need of cooperation. If they scale it down to the point that anyone, with any build, and any weapon, by themselves can just roll around and win, what fun is there, or point, to take it on as a group?

The Storyline quests are SOLO ONLY. You can't take a group even if you want to.

Lasse B
04-15-2013, 09:43 AM
What, you would then have bragging rights over the people who won the nerfed version. Why should you get something special?
Quite the opposite, why should people who didn't put the same effort into it get the same rewards?

Perhaps you overlooked it, but a couple of pages ago I said I'd be fine if we get nothing but an armor saying "Beat Jackleg Joe and Nim while they were more difficult and all I got was this lousy armor". And I really mean lousy. Rusty and worn down with barely enough space for that message, or a symbol representing it.

Or something else entirely. Remember Spartacus, the TV show? How Spartacus was sometimes referred to after beating Theocoles? A title like "Slayer of Nim" would work just the same.

fishboy11
04-15-2013, 09:48 AM
how bout instead of nerfing them they make them drop actual loot?? jackleg joe gives you jack squat even for the mission completion, and nim just gives a damn pistol, and i already had a pistol that was better which i never use.

FriendlyStranger
04-15-2013, 09:55 AM
The Storyline quests are SOLO ONLY. You can't take a group even if you want to.

That was already covered, you came late to the party.

These battles are obviously not that difficult, just difficult the way a lot of people are playing them. I think the majority here can agree on making these missions co-op, and perhaps scaling the difficulty of any given mission by the # of people being in on it.

Jarrick
04-15-2013, 10:13 AM
Quite the opposite, why should people who didn't put the same effort into it get the same rewards?

Perhaps you overlooked it, but a couple of pages ago I said I'd be fine if we get nothing but an armor saying "Beat Jackleg Joe and Nim while they were more difficult and all I got was this lousy armor". And I really mean lousy. Rusty and worn down with barely enough space for that message, or a symbol representing it.

Or something else entirely. Remember Spartacus, the TV show? How Spartacus was sometimes referred to after beating Theocoles? A title like "Slayer of Nim" would work just the same.

If they ever do nerf him everyone who killed them before then should get a defiant few armor set, that would cover it heh

squidgod2000
04-15-2013, 10:53 AM
so basicly what you said Cloak is never going to work

*shrug* I used cloak and beat him on the first try. It was good for the quick shield recharge (though you could stick a BMG in your secondary, which I didn't do because I lack foresight), and gives you a chance to position yourself without worrying about dodging.

squidgod2000
04-15-2013, 10:56 AM
If they made these easy bosses even easier, I fear for the future of the game.

Well, you should be afraid then, because that's exactly how Trion manages their games. They release a boss fight, wait a few days for the hardcores to beat it, nerf the fight once, then nerf it again when they release the next chunk of content. Drove my guildies out of Rift and kept them away from this game.

ironhands
04-15-2013, 11:13 AM
I beat jackleg joe first attempt, no spoiler vids/posts, knowing nothing other than "it's tough". Used a 3 round burst shotty with siphon for parts, and a downpour pulser when massive DPS was needed. Don't think I even used any EGO powers, maybe cloak once, but I can't remember. I'm not an elite shooter player by any stretch, I die a lot.

Nmalthus
04-15-2013, 11:14 AM
Nim is fairly easy once you get the strategy down, it's just phase 1 and 2 are tedious but having a BMG for phase 2 & 3 helps and using a combat shotty on 1 makes 1 cake.

Nightside187
04-15-2013, 11:48 AM
If they want to drop the difficulty they just need too add an heroic mode or something whit a better reward or special title so the average joe will be able too complete it, and the more skilled players will have there title to brag about.

Glenn
04-15-2013, 11:59 AM
Wait. People had trouble with Jackleg Joe? He was easy. All you had to do was hit the little fire dudes and dodge his grenades when he jumped down.

This, I beat him first try without dying. Fighting an elite Blacklung with some mattocks is harder imo.
My main loadout is LMG + Auto Shotty + Overcharge

Dixa
04-15-2013, 12:02 PM
... is there going to be special rewards for those players who have defeated these bosses before they were put into wuss mode?

Serious question.

I think it's kinda unfair to let players who managed to pull off the seemingly impossible go without tokens of appreciation for their accomplishments. They did after all put more effort into it.

you shoulda heard the whining about the king pin fight over the weekend in the marvel heroes beta.

and that was a fight that legitimately is harder than nim or jackleg because it has a one shot mechanic.

there is a vocal minority that simply do not want to be challenged anymore.

Olcsonn
04-15-2013, 12:02 PM
... is there going to be special rewards for those players who have defeated these bosses before they were put into wuss mode?

Serious question.

I think it's kinda unfair to let players who managed to pull off the seemingly impossible go without tokens of appreciation for their accomplishments. They did after all put more effort into it.

Considering these weak people are *****ing about fights that are not even that damn hard, I think they should.

Jestunhi
04-15-2013, 12:03 PM
... is there going to be special rewards for those players who have defeated these bosses before they were put into wuss mode?

No.

Feel free to brag to people that you beat the "hard" boss (LMFAO...) but don't expect any more.

iCanHazHeadSh0t
04-15-2013, 12:08 PM
Several of my friends told me to get ready for JackLeg and mentioned dying to him dozens of times before beating him, then I proceeded to beat him without dying, don't really see why he's considered a hard boss at all.

Suun Brakur
04-15-2013, 12:09 PM
No to nerf I have not have the chance to fight, been watching videos and I want the challenge. The time trails was difficult for me at the beginning but after redoing them over and over I am beginning to gain bronze and silver. I know the Nim will be costly to me because I know I will be xtracting but it gives me the incentive to increase my EGO or gain more experience in the weapons that I choose to use or become better in choosing mods/equip or the correct perks. No dev no!

BrutikusIV
04-15-2013, 12:14 PM
Oldest topic in MMO's and they really need to feed more off their fps roots and apply the right fix for this. Which is to make Easy, normal, veteran, and hardcore mode selections. Where the harder it is, the better the rewards but scrubs could still go easy mode and progress the story. Of course that'd open up a whole new wine list...

Dixa
04-15-2013, 12:15 PM
Oldest topic in MMO's and they really need to feed more off their fps roots and apply the right fix for this. Which is to make Easy, normal, veteran, and hardcore mode selections. Where the harder it is, the better the rewards but scrubs could still go easy mode and progress the story. Of course that'd open up a whole new wine list...

this would only fly if you could repeat the story missions. currently you can not.

Olcsonn
04-15-2013, 12:16 PM
I still do not see the big deal about a fight that is challenging, I beat Nim with a RL and Jack was a joke! I really get tired of catering to the weak, lazy, and/or stupid. Make them work for it! Like so many of us have had to do, if they leave the game Blizzard will be more than happy to cater to their b!tch moans and complaints. They already bought the game, money pocketed...

Olcsonn
04-15-2013, 12:18 PM
Oldest topic in MMO's and they really need to feed more off their fps roots and apply the right fix for this. Which is to make Easy, normal, veteran, and hardcore mode selections. Where the harder it is, the better the rewards but scrubs could still go easy mode and progress the story. Of course that'd open up a whole new wine list...

These children would then complain that they did it on easy and are not getting the same rewards as the "hardcore" mode, this idea that it is not fair or some other BS.

Reiter
04-15-2013, 12:32 PM
The whole point of the thread is the dudes who beat the more difficult version feel cheated once everyone starts beating the easier version. These dudes forget...other people don't care about other dudes achievements, just their own. Opps! Sorry, but someone had to put the truth out their. Regardless how hard or easy it is, OP and dudes with the same opinion belive they are entitled to be recognized by the world at large (hate these kinds of people) like they actually did something difficult...sorry, but its a video game and its a form of entertainment, there is no way in hell you deserve a Stanely Cup just because your sitting on your *** twitching your thumbs in real life. Perhaps if you felt a more satisfaction of your own achievement without whining about it...yeah, it won't bother you that someone else is doing it easier (because, no one else cares about your achievement, just their own)

Genfar
04-15-2013, 12:35 PM
Why would they nerf jackleg joe he was not that hard to beat I did it in the first try.

BubbaKeg
04-15-2013, 12:35 PM
Nothing saddens me more than the nerfs that were implemented into RIFTs dungeons. RIFT dungeons at release, specifically top level hardmode dungeons, were perfect. They actually provided a true challenge as you were working on gear progression. They nerfed these to the floor and let everyone march through them.

All MMOs get nerfed, and we don't get rewarded for beating it pre-nerf. Just be happy you got to experience content you thought was challenging before they swing the nerf-bat.

Jestunhi
04-15-2013, 12:41 PM
The whole point of the thread is the dudes who beat the more difficult version feel cheated once everyone starts beating the easier version. These dudes forget...other people don't care about other dudes achievements, just their own. Opps! Sorry, but someone had to put the truth out their. Regardless how hard or easy it is, OP and dudes with the same opinion belive they are entitled to be recognized by the world at large (hate these kinds of people) like they actually did something difficult...sorry, but its a video game and its a form of entertainment, there is no way in hell you deserve a Stanely Cup just because your sitting on your *** twitching your thumbs in real life. Perhaps if you felt a more satisfaction of your own achievement without whining about it...yeah, it won't bother you that someone else is doing it easier (because, no one else cares about your achievement, just their own)

While I'm in no way defending or agreeing with the OP, you seem to be implying that skating around an ice rink with a stick is a somehow herculean task while playing Defiance is simple.

The reality is that neither are hard to learn and both are hard to be the best. Why you think one deserves a trophy and the other deserves nothing I don't know.

Viibl
04-15-2013, 12:44 PM
Nothing should be nerfed. Need more difficult bosses, please.

Maurer
04-15-2013, 01:23 PM
I am of the opinion Jackleg Joe needs to be tweaked to be easier (haven't fought Nim yet). I tried him with Cloak and Decoy, and while Decoy it wasn't a walk in the park, Cloak was just down right frustrating.

My biggest complaints with the encounter are the instant restart upon death with no chance to revive and large number of elite maddocks in the 2nd phase. I wouldn't mind a few more regular maddocks to be able to make use of Perk benefits upon killing.

In my honest opinion, I think there needs to be a complete overhaul of the shield mechanics and a general tweaking of NPC grenade spooge (spooge, not spam). Overall, the shield mechanics suck, favoring Resparks with their fast recharges of 40% in 3 seconds while the mid and higher shields just take too long. My grenade complaints generally stem from tankers, who lob 3 grenades in succession (if the character gets hit by 1, it goes UNGH!OMGIMHIT!!! and freezes in place unable to move or roll while the next one is incoming - ok, you got me, there is about .38183438 seconds after the UNGH!OMGIMHIT!! to attempt a roll, but it is hard to time right).

SavageWolf
04-15-2013, 02:25 PM
Are people seriously moaning about jackleg joe? Beat him my first attempt, was actually really easy tbh. Haven't fought nim yet. People just want super easy mode nowadays. Everyone goes on about dark souls being the hardest game ever...... it isn't. It's not even hard.

iCoNiC_Waly
04-15-2013, 02:29 PM
... is there going to be special rewards for those players who have defeated these bosses before they were put into wuss mode?

Serious question.

I think it's kinda unfair to let players who managed to pull off the seemingly impossible go without tokens of appreciation for their accomplishments. They did after all put more effort into it.

They were semi difficult sure, but not impossible. I don't understand why people don't enjoy a challenge these days.

Thee Apothecary
04-15-2013, 02:30 PM
nim was piss easy my method http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?37519-My-Guide-to-Beating-the-Final-Boss-easy-Minor-Spoilers&p=335349#post335349 gotta love BMG's

DuhTigersBlood
04-15-2013, 02:33 PM
People will just move on to another boss to complain about... Nim is easy with blurr or overcharge.

invisibility with a BMG is amazing, i didn't go down

Drandorion
04-15-2013, 02:38 PM
They were semi difficult sure, but not impossible. I don't understand why people don't enjoy a challenge these days.

Part of the problem with Nim imo is that the phase one mechanic of insta rushing a player multiple times till they go splat isn't really seen anywhere else in the game. The entire game has been incredibly easy and then bam, your lying on the floor asking if anyone got the license plate number of that truck that just steamrolled you.

Maybe introducing this to the players in a more manageable form before fighting Nim would allow people to understand what they are supposed to be doing to fight him. Just a thought.

Pain
04-15-2013, 03:54 PM
Kinda sad all these idiots whining about these bosses. Everything has to be easy mode nowadays.

None of them would last in a Souls game. l0ll

Xei
04-15-2013, 03:57 PM
This back and forth over what's hard and whats not. Some people just straight up have an easier time then others. I had problems with both jackleg and nim. Mostly jackleg cause the room was so small and I had been used to plenty of room through all the missions. Now my problem with Nim was just the lack of cover in phase 1. Now I'm not saying nerf nerf nerf. But what I will say is my friend couldn't beat Nim and had to back out and leave. The reason for this was because he would die and not get a single revive. For whatever reason he would get a revive option but when he used it, the entire fight restarted. So all that I am really saying is bugs like that need to get fixed. Maybe allow us to use more then 1 revive in those boss fights if it is available.

Archangel
04-15-2013, 04:10 PM
It comes down to people not wanting to put time into learning the fight.

Die enough times on Nim and you'll figure it out.

How many times did people fail on Mike Tyson in Mike Tyson's punch out? Or Mario Bros when we didn't know speed running got you across those 1x1 openings between the brick pillars.

Todays gamers seem to not want to invest time to learn and would rather just have it easy.

If you can't get him down right away. Take a break. Stand up and stretch. Do some side missions. Come back the next day.

My best friend had a difficult time on his first attempt. Came back the next morning and beat him 1st try.

So unless you have died 100's of times and tried respec'ing your perks 100's of ways and no matter what you do this fight eludes you. You would then have something to complain about or be embarrassed about.

Peoples concerns don't fall on def ears though. so who knows if they'll make a change to the fight or not. If just shrinking his HP but leaving everything else would make the fight that much easier.

I had no problem with only a BMG with Trapper.