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View Full Version : Your opinions on the level of interaction between both Defiance game and show?



EdgeTW
04-15-2013, 08:50 AM
Notice: Discussions about Episode 2 connection attempts > begins here at this link < (http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?37123-Your-opinions-on-the-level-of-interaction-between-both-Defiance-game-and-show&p=446396&viewfull=1#post446396) .

When I first heard about Defiance being both a game and a show, I immediately thought "gimmick". However, if you allow yourself to believe how both game and show developers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TNfo65NzHQw#t=35s) described the interaction between the two mediums, you're probably expecting something a fair bit grander (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TNfo65NzHQw#t=280s).

I was fairly happy with the four-part episode series of missions available in the game of Defiance. The game writers gave us a story that allowed us to adventure alongside two key characters from the show (Nolan and Irisa). I would say that if you buy into the advertisement hype coming from both Trion and SyFY in the two video links above, then that's probably the minimum level of interaction players are hoping to see. Hopefully they can keep that up in the months to come.

However, on the television side of Defiance, the show writers made a very different effort. The Libera Nova gem (the objective of your adventure with Nolan and Irisa in-game) was mentioned only in passing, referred to as a "whatsit" while fishing it from a bag, along with Nolan making a one-line complaint about how difficult it was to obtain when it's confiscated by a raider. And that was really about it.

To me, the show references fell far short of the effort the game writers put forward to link both mediums together. In comparison, I felt like the show writers were just checking off a "make sure to include game reference" point on a "need to do" checklist rather than really trying to weave the show and game together. And that was disappointing.

Now, I really wasn't expecting anything major. Ten seconds of dialogue would have done it for me.. perhaps something like this (and, forgive me, I'm no writer) :

Nolan: (looks over the Libera Nova gem)

Irisa: "Don't tell me you're still frustrated about what happened out west?"

Nolan: "That Ark Hunter saved our lives, and was left holding the bag while we ran off with everything. It wasn't my proudest moment."

Nolan: (momentary thoughtful stare before inserting the Libera Nova gem into the ship's terra-spire)

A moment like that could have gone a long way, in 1) helping the game players feel directly linked to the show, 2) perhaps generating interest in the game amongst show watchers who aren't playing it yet, and 3) using remorse to reinforce the idea that Nolan isn't a total jerk on his journey towards being the hero of the show (because, honestly, the game didn't leave players with the finest of impressions, and here was a cross-medium opportunity to refine that).

Now, some will argue that you shouldn't mention events that happen off-camera within the confines of the show. I don't believe that's true anymore with modern mediums, where popular programs often include web-episodes that are then referenced during television episodes, or games referencing events that occurred in novels.

And that goes double for a property that sells itself as both a game and a show which are (in theory) joined at the hip. If show viewers (who are not playing the game) hear that characters in the show are having adventures beyond the confines of the show, they may be more interested in checking the game out. And, look.. the sad truth is the show writers spent far more time talking about an off-screen affair between Nolan and an alien female during the opening driving sequence in the roller than they did talking about his off-screen adventure with your Arkhunter. Where are the priorities? Both were character building moments but only one created a bridge between the two mediums (which is supposed to be a major selling point of this project).

In the end, for me it's as simple as looking at the effort put forth by the game writers, and looking at the effort put forth by the show writers, and I can't help but ask: was that the best the latter could do? Already we're hearing that season 1 of the show has been filmed and they're now working on season 2.. so, already it's obvious that the level of influence the game will have on the show is minimal at best. It's much more likely the show will influence the game. And that makes these small opportunities for show writers to reference the game from within the show all the more important.. because, apparently, small opportunities are all we're going to get on their end. And, because of that, I feel like they really dropped the ball with this grand plan of theirs.

So, what are your thoughts? How do you feel the game writers are doing at tying the game to the show? How do you feel the show writers are doing at tying the show to the game? Do you feel the level of hype in the videos linked at the beginning of this post matches the start we're off to here at the beginning of this experiment? And are you even buying into the hype from Trion and SyFy, or have you already convinced yourself this will always just be a gimmick?

I want to add that this thread isn't about discussing the quality of the episode (there are plenty of threads for that). Rather, it's about discussing the interaction between the game world and the show world. It is possible to like or dislike the show and be satisfied/unsatisfied with the amount of interaction between the two. So, let's hear your opinions.

jonwes
04-15-2013, 08:55 AM
Way too early to tell. I thought the gem and the Ara Shondu references were fun. We don't even know how the show will feed back into new Episode Missions this week yet, though.

I think having Nolan and Irisa talking about us (as the Ark Hunter) would have been WAY too clunky. For the audience, when you talk about something like that, then you expect to see such a character later, not have it exist in a game you may never play. I think that would turn TV audiences off, to be honest, and they need to work independently.

The game is interactive and can be more customized to each player. I expect the show to inform the game content much more than the other way around, especially in the beginning. A TV show only has one version which airs for every one, including non-players. I think people need to keep that in mind. One day we'll have TV shows that can adapt to choices made in a game. That'll be cool. But TV has to change considerably before that can happen.

EdgeTW
04-15-2013, 08:59 AM
I think having Nolan and Irisa talking about us (as the Ark Hunter) would have been WAY too clunky. For the audience, when you talk about something like that, then you expect to see such a character later, not have it exist in a game you may never play. I think that would turn TV audiences off, to be honest, and they need to work independently.
I get where you're coming from here, but that philosophy is very much the opposite of the kind of interaction that SyFy and Trion were promising in the video I linked above. What are you thoughts on that? Is their whole pitch of "Watch the Show, Play the Game, Change the World" doomed from the start?

Fiancee
04-15-2013, 09:05 AM
Theres gonna be more episosde mission, also characters from the show gives us quest to the game, also theres something they called as "beats" I suppose somekind of events that will affect the show and vice versa.

Example they gave, theres some doctor, and needs cure in the show and players need to give it to him. Question is how much he needs and how much we give? If he doesnt get enough, something bad happens.

How about we watch the show, before you guys get the ****-boat going.

Archellion
04-15-2013, 09:12 AM
I think the first season of the show will have very minimal "interaction" between the two mediums; mainly because it's already "in the can." So, our interaction will be unidirectional, from the show to the game. However, I think subsequent seasons have much more potential for the game to influence the show.

I've previously recounted, on these forums, how Alderac Entertainment Group did something similar in their CCG, "Legend of the Five Rings," by which the way players constructed their decks in certain tournaments influenced the next expansion for the game. I think the TV show could be similarly influenced by our gaming in the next season. The opportunity for immediate feedback would be limited, at best, but a more overarching change could be affected by the players. This change would have to be executed in such a manner as to not leave the non-gaming audience confused about the cause. They can't feel as if they've missed something significant. It will either need to be sufficiently expounded for them, or introduced in a way that makes its origins unimportant to the TV show-only crowd.

Enepttastic
04-15-2013, 09:13 AM
My opinion? The best time to critique something that's story-based is when the story has ended, and if that may not be possible, waiting for at least a few chapters in before *****ing.

Dinova
04-15-2013, 09:15 AM
Wasnt it in the pilot Nolan said something like 'how much it took him' to get hold of that gem?

The freaking bastard, puts us in the frontline shooting stuff, he nicks the gem and says 'he went through alot'?

jonwes
04-15-2013, 09:15 AM
I get where you're coming from here, but that philosophy is very much the opposite of the kind of interaction that SyFy and Trion were promising in the video I linked above. What are you thoughts on that? Is their whole pitch of "Watch the Show, Play the Game, Change the World" doomed from the start?

I still think it's a bit too early to say one way or another that way. They have hinted that even more activity could be achieved in season 2. I think in season 1 we'll see some characters pop up (they gave examples of wanted posters electronically added in post with character pics, IIRC) and maybe some mentions (I suppose they could dub in someone's name if a character's back is turned) but for the most part Season 1 is already filmed. So interaction on the fly with the rigors of television production isn't going to happen. So what we'll see are cross-pollination of characters and events, I think. The whole thing about finding a cure for an epidemic that's mentioned on the show is a good example.

I think it's best to think of this as Step 1 in making something like this work, and it can just grow from there. If they get an audience and player base built up, I'm sure they can come up with more inventive ways of getting the interaction in the future.


Wasnt it in the pilot Nolan said something like 'how much it took him' to get hold of that gem?

The freaking bastard, puts us in the frontline shooting stuff, he nicks the gem and says 'he went through alot'?

LOL - well, they did go on the mission with us. So they did some work! And in my mission they got shot a lot and were crawling around for a good amount of the time. LOL.

Wraethrax
04-15-2013, 09:22 AM
Yeah, waaaaaay to early for a critique. I'm going to be very patient as to how this plays out. It's a pretty novel idea and it's not like there's a tried and true formula for this. I'm thinking that it will take a while for them to hit their stride. I enjoyed the show and I'm enjoying the game. I hope both survive long enough to see it all play out.

EdgeTW
04-15-2013, 09:22 AM
I think having Nolan and Irisa talking about us (as the Ark Hunter) would have been WAY too clunky. For the audience, when you talk about something like that, then you expect to see such a character later, not have it exist in a game you may never play. I think that would turn TV audiences off, to be honest, and they need to work independently.I get where you're coming from here, but that philosophy is very much the opposite of the kind of interaction that SyFy and Trion were promising in the video I linked above. What are you thoughts on that? Is their whole pitch of "Watch the Show, Play the Game, Change the World" doomed from the start?

I just want to add to this comment because I realize not everyone may have access to those Youtube links at this moment, so here is the transcript from the Defiance description videos made by members of SyFy and Trion:

"Defiance is actually two things.

One is a serialized drama for television, and the other is a massive multiplayer online game.

Both properties are tied together and work as one.

The game of Defiance takes place in San Francisco. And the TV show takes place in St. Louis. But it's a shared universe.

The events of that virtual world will actually affect the story and the world of our show, and visa versa.

There's never been a time when a television network and a video game company have come together from the start to create something like this.

It's never been attempted before, it's truly at the forefront of immersive storytelling experiences. It's the holy grail of entertainment.

The experience of one is going to enhance the experience of the other in ways that are both overt and also very subtle.

Immersive stories on two platforms that are seamlessly living together.

The real crossovers happen while the seasons going. Since we planned from the very beginning to do this, things like a character leaving the game and going to the show and talking about what they did in the game.

You have the same vehicles, the same technology, the same flora, the same fauna.

You can inhabit the world as a player that's actively moving through the world of Defiance, and you can turn on the TV, and sit back, and watch great drama unfold.

We'll be transitioning from the real world to the game world and back again.

The show and the game constantly reinforce each other. And battles in the game might change the outcome of the TV show. Big events in the TV show are immediately reflected in the game.

It's just a really amazing way to have that fan interaction.

Through this level of interconnectivity between the two mediums we're creating this sort of.. super product. It's is part of the fun of working on Defiance.

It really allows both companies to bring what they do best to the table and create something that has never been done before.

It is one of the most ground breaking entertainment experiences ever created."

And, specifically, to address the concerns about it being "too clunky" to talk about game events in the show, there is this statement from the above quotes: "Since we planned from the very beginning to do this, things like a character leaving the game and going to the show and talking about what they did in the game.". I mean, that's exactly what you're saying they should avoid doing, but that's exactly what they say they plan on doing, on purpose.

EdgeTW
04-15-2013, 09:24 AM
Yeah, waaaaaay to early for a critique. I'm going to be very patient as to how this plays out. It's a pretty novel idea and it's not like there's a tried and true formula for this. I'm thinking that it will take a while for them to hit their stride. I enjoyed the show and I'm enjoying the game. I hope both survive long enough to see it all play out.

That's ok, you can keep coming back to the thread and revising your opinion each week. :) Today the show is launching (and many have seen the first episode already, if not the first 15 minutes), and the first of the game's episode missions are wrapping up.. so this seemed like a good time to start an ongoing discussion. It doesn't have to wrap up in a day.

That said, you can always just mention whether you're pleased or not with the start, whether it met your expectations, do you hope they do better going forward, or was the level of interaction more than you could have hoped for? Stronger on one end or the other? Etc. Never too early to start talking about how things are starting off, and probably better to give feedback now than by the time they've wrapped up Season 2.

fishboy11
04-15-2013, 09:36 AM
i have already seen the show and i liked the show, but it did not make me think of the game besides a few aesthetics, i dont know what it was but it just didnt click for me, the show didnt make me think of the game or want to play it anymore than i already had and vice versa.

Opus
04-15-2013, 09:39 AM
Aside from the 'whatsit,' there were also references to Ara Shondu, the 99ers and gulanite, off the top of my head. I was rather pleased with how many references were made in the pilot that normal TV audiences would have missed unless they also played the game.

LurchUSA
04-15-2013, 09:40 AM
The show will drive the games story lines.

The game will have NO impact on the show.

That is all!!

EdgeTW
04-15-2013, 09:44 AM
The show will drive the games story lines.

The game will have NO impact on the show.

That is all!!

So, you don't believe the hype Trion and SyFy tried to generate? They painted a very different picture than that. I myself believe you are very close to being correct (like I said at the start, my initial impression was "gimmick"), but I am interested in hearing who believes (or doesn't believe) what, and why. I was going to allow them the benefit of the doubt, and while I'm more impressed with the game-writers efforts, I'm disappointed with the show writers efforts (to link the two mediums).

Enepttastic
04-15-2013, 09:45 AM
The show will drive the games story lines.

The game will have NO impact on the show.

That is all!!

http://www.blastr.com/2012/12/defiance-exec-explains-ho.php

That is all.

Edit: In other words, I love how people post stuff from the outside perspective while exuding the belief that they know exactly what's happening.

There's mention of the gamer actually having some influence on how season 2 will look. Do we have any idea how that's going to work out? No.

jonwes
04-15-2013, 09:49 AM
And, specifically, to address the concerns about it being "too clunky" to talk about game events in the show, there is this statement from the above quotes: "Since we planned from the very beginning to do this, things like a character leaving the game and going to the show and talking about what they did in the game.". I mean, that's exactly what you're saying they should avoid doing, but that's exactly what they say they plan on doing, on purpose.

I think there are ways to do that, and ways not to do that. For instance, in the little dialog snippet you gave - that seemed the way NOT to do it. For one thing, the pilot is overstuffed. But to have Nolan and Irisa mention a tangle with an Ark Hunter... I guess it feels too specific? Again, it's just that in drama when you make too much of a deal about something then you set up an expectation with the audience that this will be revisited. If it's a throw away line, then I think that works. When the Spirit Riders take the crystal away, I guess you could have Nolan grumble something like "Well, I guess I can't complain about you taking that considering how I came about it" or something like that (hopefully with better dialogue than what I wrote) but I think that's about it.

But within those parameters there's a lot you can do. Maybe Doc Yewll has some special expertise that a colleague needs in San Fran, so she agrees to go on an E-Rep stratocarrier to help out. She says something about being nervous getting on the stratocarrier after what happened to the New Freedom. In the game, you get to interact with Yewll and her colleague Doctor Whatever to help them with their research. Then, maybe two episodes later Doc Yewll comes back with Doctor Whatever in tow.

We'll just have to see. I think there's a lot that can be done to make it fun and interactive in non-disruptive way.

EdgeTW
04-15-2013, 11:10 AM
i have already seen the show and i liked the show, but it did not make me think of the game besides a few aesthetics, i dont know what it was but it just didnt click for me, the show didnt make me think of the game or want to play it anymore than i already had and vice versa.

Actually, the show itself made me wish the game designers had made Defiance more of an MMORPG. That doesn't mean it can't retain it's shooter elements.. just that the absence of things like a social hub and the option to perform less shooter oriented tasks in conjunction with what we have now would have made for a much more fleshed out world. As it is, it's almost too arcade-ish, especially when compared to the show. The show is heavy on story and the game heavy on action. I think the game could have used more elements from the show to better balance it out.

However, that's a topic for a completely different thread (one I'd love to see visited, personally).

EdgeTW
04-15-2013, 12:26 PM
Aside from the 'whatsit,' there were also references to Ara Shondu, the 99ers and gulanite, off the top of my head. I was rather pleased with how many references were made in the pilot that normal TV audiences would have missed unless they also played the game.

Name-dropping doesn't really do it for me like referencing events would. The 99ers are an element that exists in both the game and the show, so of course they're going to be mentioned in each (as would Arkhunters since Nolan is one, and arkfalls, the EMC, etc).

I think it's odder that Nolan can survive a crash on a stratocarrier and make off with the Novagem, but the show writers barely talk about that yet are willing to spend minutes filling dead time in that roller trip discussing a meaningless alien fling and pheromone issue. How important was that moment to anyone, really? We learned Nolan likes the ladies and Irisa is annoyed by her father's actions - a lesson they threw at us several times throughout the episode. That time could have been better spent connecting the show to Nolan's trip in the Bay Area instead.

EdgeTW
04-15-2013, 05:33 PM
I think there are ways to do that, and ways not to do that. For instance, in the little dialog snippet you gave - that seemed the way NOT to do it. For one thing, the pilot is overstuffed. But to have Nolan and Irisa mention a tangle with an Ark Hunter... I guess it feels too specific? Again, it's just that in drama when you make too much of a deal about something then you set up an expectation with the audience that this will be revisited.
I'm just not understanding that concern. Nolan very specifically speaks about a fling he had with an alien female (which happened completely off-camera prior to the events of the show. How is that ok, but offering specifics on an adventure he had prior to the show not ok? I mean, to me, that seemed like an utter waste of time that helped no one.

What are people expecting to happen when characters vanish from the show for several episodes to appear in the game world? Are we really expecting them to return to the show and not reference their trip out west at all? At some point viewers of the show are going to have to accept the fact that there are events happening outside of the show, in the game of Defiance, that are having a direct impact on their storyline. At least, if you believe the hype.

"..things like a character leaving the game and going to the show and talking about what they did in the game."

That is what the producers have in mind. I don't think I'm suggesting anything that doesn't fit in exactly with that idea.



If it's a throw away line, then I think that works. When the Spirit Riders take the crystal away, I guess you could have Nolan grumble something like "Well, I guess I can't complain about you taking that considering how I came about it" or something like that (hopefully with better dialogue than what I wrote) but I think that's about it.

That, at least, would have been better than what we got on the show-side of things. I really feel like Nolan's adventure in the Bay Area was just glazed over.



But within those parameters there's a lot you can do. Maybe Doc Yewll has some special expertise that a colleague needs in San Fran, so she agrees to go on an E-Rep stratocarrier to help out. She says something about being nervous getting on the stratocarrier after what happened to the New Freedom. In the game, you get to interact with Yewll and her colleague Doctor Whatever to help them with their research. Then, maybe two episodes later Doc Yewll comes back with Doctor Whatever in tow.

We'll just have to see. I think there's a lot that can be done to make it fun and interactive in non-disruptive way.
That would be nice too. But I don't think it would be a crime for Doc Yewll to come back and tell a very specific story about her adventures in the game side of Defiance. I feel like the more they shy away from doing that, the less legitimate the game world feels.

Technodude
04-15-2013, 05:36 PM
Honestly it is going to be blink and miss kind of the deal. And people who are only interested in the show i doubt they will get intrigued enough to check out the game.

SYFY controls the show and i doubt they are going to derail it enough to make heavier connection with a video game. They have much bigger audience who don't play games and are interested only in the show. That is their main audience.

EdgeTW
04-16-2013, 07:37 AM
Honestly it is going to be blink and miss kind of the deal. And people who are only interested in the show i doubt they will get intrigued enough to check out the game.

SYFY controls the show and i doubt they are going to derail it enough to make heavier connection with a video game. They have much bigger audience who don't play games and are interested only in the show. That is their main audience.

So, in your opinion then the promises are more hype than substance? Because the president of Syfy is calling this merger of mediums the "holy grail of entertainment", and in interviews seems to be 110% behind the idea of this being one shared story told across two different platforms. But you're painting a picture that makes it sound like Syfy is more interested in playing it safe and allowing the game to handle most of the interconnections.

JMadFour
04-16-2013, 07:38 AM
I don't think the interaction will be that significant during the first season.

I think that at the end of the first season we MAY have a major interaction that affects the beginning of Season 2, and then from there on we'll have more of an impact.

Technodude
04-16-2013, 07:42 AM
So, in your opinion then the promises are more hype than substance? Because the president of Syfy is calling this merger of mediums the "holy grail of entertainment", and in interviews seems to be 110% behind the idea of this being one shared story told across two different platforms. But you're painting a picture that makes it sound like Syfy is more interested in playing it safe and allowing the game to handle most of the interconnections.

Just going by what producer said earlier about 75% to 80% of show not being related to the game.

JMadFour
04-16-2013, 07:44 AM
Just going by what producer said earlier about 75% to 80% of show not being related to the game.

that sounds about right. there's really no feasible way for us to have more impact that about 25%, when the seasons are fully completed far in advance.

that said 25% is a lot more than most TV/Film based games can say.

anxious to see how they pull it off.

Niurok
04-16-2013, 07:46 AM
Least Ara Shando* is mentioned. So I'm guessing Nom will make an appearance and hopefully Von Bach. To me this first episode is too similar to Eureka where the sheriff in that show leaves and Carter takes over where as in Defiance one of Rath's flunkies shoots the sheriff and Nolan I'm guessing eventually takes the position.

Zoridium JackL
04-16-2013, 07:50 AM
question... who has the gem now and what do they plan on doing with it?

I'm just saying...

JMadFour
04-16-2013, 07:52 AM
question... who has the gem now and what do they plan on doing with it?

I'm just saying...

pretty sure the gem is still in that Arkfall, they used it to get the Terrasphere.

BrutikusIV
04-16-2013, 07:53 AM
Think they are going to mix wonderfully. The game updates can feed off of as much of the show as the devs have time to implement. Loved the show and am really enjoying the game. Cannot wait for more.

Zoridium JackL
04-16-2013, 07:56 AM
pretty sure the gem is still in that Arkfall, they used it to get the Terrasphere.

nope, a rider took it remember, no telling what he did with it, or whether he even knew what he had his hands on... for all we know it could make a return... or maybe he gave it to his girl because it sparkled reminded him of her eyes :]

EdgeTW
04-16-2013, 08:15 AM
Think they are going to mix wonderfully. The game updates can feed off of as much of the show as the devs have time to implement. Loved the show and am really enjoying the game. Cannot wait for more.

Yes, I think the game writers will do a decent job of linking to the show, but what about the other way around? After seeing the first episode, are you impressed with the brief connection to the game the show writers presented us with (two comments mentioning the crystal from the episode missions, one of them being a "hand me the whatsit" statement).

Does that, to you, equal the amount of effort to create a link that the game writers went through (creating a 4-part adventure with Nolan and Irisa)? For me the show writers fell far short of the bar the game writers set.

Zoridium JackL
04-16-2013, 08:18 AM
Yes, I think the game writers will do a decent job of linking to the show, but what about the other way around? After seeing the first episode, are you impressed with the brief connection to the game the show writers presented us with (two comments mentioning the crystal from the episode missions, one of them being a "hand me the whatsit" statement).

Does that, to you, equal the amount of effort to create a link that the game writers went through (creating a 4-part adventure with Nolan and Irisa)? For me the show writers fell far short of the bar the game writers set.

keep in mind it was the pilot/1st ep, they may have been concerned with other things at this point in time, and maybe they need a little time to get their own storyline settled before the splicing begins.

Remag Div
04-16-2013, 08:27 AM
The people saying "Well, they can't crossover too much because it would confuse and turn people away from the show." Umm, wasn't that the whole big draw to this entire project? The show should reference and affect the game just as much as the game should reference and affect the show. That's one of the big reasons I got interested in this project and why I bought the game to begin with. If certain people who just watch the show get lost because they don't play the game that's their own damn fault because it was designed to go hand in hand moreso than anything attempted to before.

If they keep dancing around and beating around the bush, throwing out some names here and there, and then the game having some thrown in episodic missions and be done with it then that's not what I signed up for and would be extremely disappointed.

EdgeTW
04-16-2013, 09:13 AM
The people saying "Well, they can't crossover too much because it would confuse and turn people away from the show." Umm, wasn't that the whole big draw to this entire project? The show should reference and affect the game just as much as the game should reference and affect the show. That's one of the big reasons I got interested in this project and why I bought the game to begin with. If certain people who just watch the show get lost because they don't play the game that's their own damn fault because it was designed to go hand in hand moreso than anything attempted to before.

If they keep dancing around and beating around the bush, throwing out some names here and there, and then the game having some thrown in episodic missions and be done with it then that's not what I signed up for and would be extremely disappointed.

I completely agree. Someone gets it! :)

EdgeTW
04-17-2013, 07:53 AM
keep in mind it was the pilot/1st ep, they may have been concerned with other things at this point in time, and maybe they need a little time to get their own storyline settled before the splicing begins.

I would like to believe that excuse, but (again) their producer says this:

"The real crossovers happen while the seasons going. Since we planned from the very beginning to do this, things like a character leaving the game and going to the show and talking about what they did in the game."

The key idea there being "planned from the very beginning". You're kind of painting a picture where this whole cross-over concept caught them by surprise and they just weren't prepared to give it the kind of attention it deserves. With as much hype as they give the interaction between the two mediums, one would think this would be the foremost thought on their minds.

What's worse, is the show is now advertising that season 1 filming is finished and they're beginning work on season 2. How much tie-in can we really expect from the show writers for the rest of this season without some serious advance planning on both sides?

I'm not sure I buy it.

Artist of Apathy
04-17-2013, 04:12 PM
I completely agree with the OP. I was disappointed at the lack of attention to the game. The part that you wrote up would have been enough to satisfy me for the first episode.

I disagree with everyone that states, "wait until the end of the story."

Something new like this that is bridging the gap between the game and TV should have started out with a BANG. And did something extraordinary from the get go.

Who cares if some people don't understand what's going on for a few parts? The reason I say this, SyFy stated about 2.7 million people watched the show. How many people bought Defiance? How many of those 2.7 million people were hoping for linking the game? I know I was. Without buying the game, I probably wouldn't have sat through the entire pilot. I can almost guarantee the reason this show broke records on a Monday, was because of all the gamers from Defiance watching it - and probably potential customers, trying to see how it was all going to work. Syfy has a unique opportunity to blend two different audiences together. Instead of normally having just Syfy fans, they get a big gaming community as potential fans.

They both need to succeed. Not just have one stand on its own two feet - that's not what this experiment is about.

EdgeTW
04-22-2013, 01:33 PM
I disagree with everyone that states, "wait until the end of the story."

Something new like this that is bridging the gap between the game and TV should have started out with a BANG. And did something extraordinary from the get go.

Who cares if some people don't understand what's going on for a few parts? The reason I say this, SyFy stated about 2.7 million people watched the show. How many people bought Defiance? How many of those 2.7 million people were hoping for linking the game? I know I was. Without buying the game, I probably wouldn't have sat through the entire pilot. I can almost guarantee the reason this show broke records on a Monday, was because of all the gamers from Defiance watching it - and probably potential customers, trying to see how it was all going to work. Syfy has a unique opportunity to blend two different audiences together. Instead of normally having just Syfy fans, they get a big gaming community as potential fans.

They both need to succeed. Not just have one stand on its own two feet - that's not what this experiment is about.

Some of my friends who don't play the game weren't impressed enough with the first episode to watch it again this week (which, I think is harsh.. if you look back at the first episode (season, even) of Star Trek: The Next Generation.. it's just horrid. And yet, the series turned out to be loved and popular once the show hit its stride).

Point is, I agree with the above post. A lot of the show's success is due to its link to the game; fans of the game who want to also see the world of Defiance on their TV screens every Monday night. The show writers ignoring that is a big mistake, I think.

Anyway, tonight is the next episode and we can revisit this thread and talk about how the show writers did this week. Unlike how this thread started, I actually have some harsher criticisms for the game writers this time around as I am not at all impressed with the use of pursuit updates to tie the game into the Armistice Day celebration, but I'm willing to cut them some slack since they did so well with linking us to Nolan and Irisa.

Zoridium JackL
04-22-2013, 02:55 PM
I would like to believe that excuse, but (again) their producer says this:

"The real crossovers happen while the seasons going. Since we planned from the very beginning to do this, things like a character leaving the game and going to the show and talking about what they did in the game."

The key idea there being "planned from the very beginning". You're kind of painting a picture where this whole cross-over concept caught them by surprise and they just weren't prepared to give it the kind of attention it deserves. With as much hype as they give the interaction between the two mediums, one would think this would be the foremost thought on their minds.

What's worse, is the show is now advertising that season 1 filming is finished and they're beginning work on season 2. How much tie-in can we really expect from the show writers for the rest of this season without some serious advance planning on both sides?

I'm not sure I buy it.

just because it was planned from the beginning doesn't mean they can skip setting up their own characters and plot, it's a crucial step in any show and without it your viewers are left in the dark, sure they need to tie in the show, but having a worthwhile show in the first place is even more important.

EdgeTW
04-22-2013, 05:07 PM
just because it was planned from the beginning doesn't mean they can skip setting up their own characters and plot, it's a crucial step in any show and without it your viewers are left in the dark, sure they need to tie in the show, but having a worthwhile show in the first place is even more important.

And you feel that, somehow, Nolan making a quick reference to he and Irisa's adventure in the Bay Area instead of spending screen-time listening to a Nolan going on about his latest off-camera alien fling and the problem with his nose and alien pheromones would have (somehow) resulted in making Nolan more two-dimensional and creating a less worthwhile show?

That's interesting. I can't say I agree in the slightest *at all*, but.. please, feel free to explain your thinking here.

EdgeTW
04-24-2013, 08:08 AM
So, episode 2 has come and gone, and with it really very little in the way of interaction from the show writers (again), and absolutely none this time around from the game writers. That is not to say I didn't enjoy the episode, I liked it a lot. I'm just talking about it in terms of connecting the two mediums.

Yesterday they posted on the twitter feed (https://twitter.com/DefianceGame/status/326771441196466176) stating that not every episode will have a tie in. That's a bit disappointing, but I guess it is what is is. I'm curious how other players feel about it?

Finally, as of two days ago (and perhaps as a result of criticism?) it looks like the Defiance website now has a section set up specifically to point out all the connections between the game and the show (http://www.defiance.com/en/series/news/where-game-meets-show) that viewers and players may have missed from the first two episodes. I guess that's a good idea, although I think if you're going to beat me over the head with these connections I'd rather it happen in the game/show themselves rather than pointing them out after the fact on the website. Better than nothing at all, though.

"Defiance! Watch the Show, Play the Game, .. read the website?"

PIRATEorNINJA
04-24-2013, 02:35 PM
I think its pretty disappointing of them to not do something for every episode. I mean i busted my hump to get all the pursuits done before episode 2 aired and then they just take the lazy way out and say that is also our content for the next week.

I really like the game, and the show is alright i guess. The longer it goes on im starting to think they didnt plan this all out very well. it doesnt make sense to hype it up so much and then just do so little after the first episode. hell most of the pursuits and recorders we have to find for those pursuits on episode 1-2 dont even make any sense. they blab on and on about assassinations and BS that so far i dont even remember being mentioned in the show. for me the interaction between the 2 has been a let down. i really liked the first quest where you team up with nolan and irisa but past that its just been very bland and hum ho hum ho. if it doesnt get more involved soon i can see a lot of people losing interest in one or the other and that leading to a lose of interest in the TV show. I would think if the TV show fails then the game will just die and dry up. this also makes me wonder about the season pass, are they going to release 5 content packs, what happens if the show doesnt make it past the first season? and we have a lot of content left to recieve. also in said content packs im expecting them to exapnd the game land area o the other places that are now greyed out. if they dont then thats just epic fail money grab all over it

Bluejay285
04-24-2013, 03:25 PM
At this point is fairly obvious that the interaction between the game and the show was a gross misrepresentation if not an outright lie.

They probably started with good intentions, but the complexity of managing a new IP and television show along with the complexity of launching an MMO doomed this concept from the start.

It's even possibly that some day they may reach an increased level of interaction, but I am pretty sure the advertisement didn't say "Watch the Show, Play the Game, Change the World... sometime in the 2nd or 3rd season".

jonwes
04-24-2013, 06:17 PM
It's always better to undersell and over-deliver. And it does feel like this was over sold now. I was pretty realistic about my expectations, I thought, but the interaction right out of the gate has felt lackluster. Hopefully we'll get some new Episode Missions soon and it'll start to pick up. I'm in for the long haul, but not everyone will be necessarily.