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Kerry
04-16-2013, 09:37 AM
From the short period I was able to play on the new patch I noticed these changes to Infectors range.

The infector with a pre-patch range of 35 were brought down to 24, a 31% reduction in range.

All of the rest were brought down to 14.

Not to mention the nerf to damage...

What a shame.

Migrayne
04-16-2013, 09:40 AM
It is kind of odd that an anti sniper weapon has such a short range, while the sniper can scope in and shoot like 100 or more.

Worst weapon description of all time??

Multigun
04-16-2013, 09:45 AM
Freaken PvP whiners.....Infector was perfectly fine in PvE. Why do game developers always follow the whining crowd and/or nerf things that directly effects PvE for PvP? Sigh...

Kerry
04-16-2013, 09:46 AM
It is kind of odd that an anti sniper weapon has such a short range, while the sniper can scope in and shoot like 100 or more.

Worst weapon description of all time??

Exactly! Way to go guys...

Garu
04-16-2013, 09:49 AM
If im honest infectors were crazy overpowered in pvp but that was because they auto lock lol which was a really really bad idea for a third person shooter with pvp lol.I did a shadow war the other day and decided to try it out and easily came top of the score sheet. They should just remove the lock on capabilities and have it work like any other gun, the only way you can make this not overpowered in pvp is by nerfing the **** out of it for pve which means no one will use it.

RawrKitty
04-16-2013, 09:50 AM
Exactly! Way to go guys...

agreed. they need to change the description, but the range nerf was well within necessity, infectors were second only to shotguns in raw power, and theirs could be used at such a long range. now nerf shotguns trion.

Kerry
04-16-2013, 09:52 AM
If im honest infectors were crazy overpowered in pvp but that was because they auto lock lol which was a really really bad idea for a third person shooter with pvp lol.I did a shadow war the other day and decided to try it out and easily came top of the score sheet. They should just remove the lock on capabilities and have it work like any other gun, the only way you can make this not overpowered in pvp is by nerfing the **** out of it for pve which means no one will use it.

Have you used one before? Notice the physics of the projectiles as they leave the gun.

They designed this gun to be damn near impossible to connect with your target outside of the homing range.

Draugluin
04-16-2013, 09:52 AM
What I tried these things I found them a bit useless now. Maybe it is possible to adapt, but it requires more testing.

Dwane
04-16-2013, 09:52 AM
The "antisnipe" was 40 and its still at 40 range (immunizer?)

Kerry
04-16-2013, 09:53 AM
The "antisnipe" was 40 and its still at 40 range (immunizer?)

I was only online for a few minutes before the server went down, I know the one that was 35 is now 24 though.

I will edit the OP.

Strontium Dog
04-16-2013, 09:55 AM
agreed. they need to change the description, but the range nerf was well within necessity, infectors were second only to shotguns in raw power, and theirs could be used at such a long range. now nerf shotguns trion.

...in PvP




Lets stop this tripe and kick the pvp whinners into touch. If they spoil ANOTHER game in PvE i think I might just give up mmos altogether.

Who cares that its OP in PvP. Go play an FPS if you want to pvp that much. Seriously getting p!ssed at so many good games getting spoiled by pvp brats.

Kerry
04-16-2013, 09:57 AM
...in PvP




Lets stop this tripe and kick the pvp whinners into touch. If they spoil ANOTHER game in PvE i think I might just give up mmos altogether.

Who cares that its OP in PvP. Go play an FPS if you want to pvp that much. Seriously getting p!ssed at so many good games getting spoiled by pvp brats.

This has been happening since the hayday of MMO.

Ultima Online was completely destroyed by a relatively small community of whiners.

DustOfDeath
04-16-2013, 09:58 AM
i hoped this game is different - but patch after patch and ignoring pve, iv lost hope that they actually care about pve.

Hope499
04-16-2013, 10:04 AM
Worst weapon description of all time??

For real eh?

And damn...I never used infectors before (just never liked how they shoot)...sure as hell wont now. Kinda sux for people that did..I loved seeing all those lil bugz runnin around.

K A S H I H A R A D
04-16-2013, 10:05 AM
Worst weapon description of all time??

Not even close for that award goes to the Sawed-off Shotgun of Gears of War 3. Epic's definition of "melee range" was downright comical at best. Once they were proven wrong (time and time again) they changed the description altogether after nerfing the weapon.

But yeah... this is exactly what I was afraid of as it sounds like that particular version is nearly worthless now. PvP and PvE weaponry should seriously have had different values because now both modes are at the complete mercy of the other. Very disappointing.

greatdividers
04-16-2013, 10:06 AM
Who cares that its OP in PvP. Go play an FPS if you want to pvp that much. Seriously getting p!ssed at so many good games getting spoiled by pvp brats.

if this was a typical mmoRPG i would agree with you. but it isn't, we're playing a shooter. shooter's are the type of game to play for pvp.

Jeronan
04-16-2013, 10:07 AM
Freaken PvP whiners.....Infector was perfectly fine in PvE. Why do game developers always follow the whining crowd and/or nerf things that directly effects PvE for PvP? Sigh...

That's why I am getting totally fed up playing MMO's With PVP. It always ends up like this.
PVP crowd whining till eternity, With a crippled PVE game as result.

DustOfDeath
04-16-2013, 10:07 AM
how about we boost weapons for PVE now and screw pvp for once?

Jeronan
04-16-2013, 10:09 AM
if this was a typical mmoRPG i would agree with you. but it isn't, we're playing a shooter. shooter's are the type of game to play for pvp.

And yet the PVP is a Complete joke in this game! Sorry, but the only thing this game has going for is the PVE and episode content With the TV show.

The real PVP crowd will avoid this game like the plague and play "real" shooters that actually deliver a decent PVP experience.

Magrock
04-16-2013, 10:10 AM
Very good nerf. These 100% no-skill weapons should be removed from the game imo.

Lollie
04-16-2013, 10:11 AM
if this was a typical mmoRPG i would agree with you. but it isn't, we're playing a shooter. shooter's are the type of game to play for pvp.


Tons of fps shooters are pvp...if they want to grab the crowd they need to distinguish themselves (make a pve shooter). I wouldn't have bought the game if it was a boring old pvp fps shooter. I like co-op games. If it's going to be a pvp shooter they need to advertise it clearly, or it's misleading advertising (and I'd be getting my money back).

War Z had that issue as well.

DustOfDeath
04-16-2013, 10:14 AM
show me a decent pve gameplay video of the "100% no skill weapon" - you could just aswell go and poke a stick in dark matters eye.

Wrenito
04-16-2013, 10:15 AM
Seriously getting p!ssed at so many good games getting spoiled by pvp brats.Seriously getting p!ssed at so many good games getting spoiled by pve brats, who think keeping imbalanced weapons in the game is good and doesn't effect pve.

PVE in this game is a complete and utter joke. Nerfing weapons would only make things more challenging/rewarding. But you don't like challenges do you, that's why you don't pvp in the first place.

umKthcbye
04-16-2013, 10:17 AM
Very good nerf. These 100% no-skill weapons should be removed from the game imo.

Your kidding right? Shotgun is more no skill then injectors.

Lollie
04-16-2013, 10:19 AM
Seriously getting p!ssed at so many good games getting spoiled by pve brats, who think keeping imbalanced weapons in the game is good and doesn't effect pve.

PVE in this game is a complete and utter joke. Nerfing weapons would only make things more challenging/rewarding. But you don't like challenges do you, that's why you don't pvp in the first place.

Exactly, pvp should be made harder. Pvp shouldn't be fun or rewarding at all, should just be hard out slog where people brutalise each other. Pve should be where the rewards and fun gameplay are found, so if a weapon gets nerfed they should only do it to the pvp side of things so that pvp gets harder and more challenging. The challenge in pvp is, as you say, all the reward you need.

fishboy11
04-16-2013, 10:21 AM
If im honest infectors were crazy overpowered in pvp but that was because they auto lock lol which was a really really bad idea for a third person shooter with pvp lol.I did a shadow war the other day and decided to try it out and easily came top of the score sheet. They should just remove the lock on capabilities and have it work like any other gun, the only way you can make this not overpowered in pvp is by nerfing the **** out of it for pve which means no one will use it.

how do you figure, pvp instances are seperate from pve, they could have easily nerfed it for just pvp.

Jeronan
04-16-2013, 10:21 AM
Seriously getting p!ssed at so many good games getting spoiled by pve brats, who think keeping imbalanced weapons in the game is good and doesn't effect pve.

PVE in this game is a complete and utter joke. Nerfing weapons would only make things more challenging/rewarding. But you don't like challenges do you, that's why you don't pvp in the first place.

Infectors were not OP in PVE at all. I never understood what the problem was in the first Place. Unless I had bad Luck and used the wrong ones or something?
Their damage output was already an utter joke and the least effective weapon. All it had going for that it was just fun to spray goo on mobs and see a few bugs pop out and do some AoE damage. No more than the average AoE rocket or grenade launcher.

Assault Rifles and LMG's are still the way to go as primary weapon to quickly mow Down mobs.

With the New nerf they can just as well remove infectors from the game along With pistols. They are completely useless now.

I seriously Wonder if the devs actually play their own game and test stuff? Or just run Things through a calculator, hold up a wet finger and crunch some random numbers for a blanket nerf and see where it lands. :mad:

RawrKitty
04-16-2013, 10:22 AM
...in PvP


i second this notion.

trion specifically designed rift to segregate abilities in pvp and pve.

do the same for Defiance.

im a pvp player and even i know that dbarrels, pumps and infectors fall short in pve

just tweak them.

don't flame me for wanting pvp balance. while pvp balance should not supersede a game designed for pvp, and vice versa - balancing the weapons is still a good decision.

Magrock
04-16-2013, 10:22 AM
Your kidding right? Shotgun is more no skill then injectors.

You must be kidding. A weapon with homing projectiles? Aim in their general direction -> win. It's a total joke.

fishboy11
04-16-2013, 10:23 AM
Seriously getting p!ssed at so many good games getting spoiled by pve brats, who think keeping imbalanced weapons in the game is good and doesn't effect pve.

PVE in this game is a complete and utter joke. Nerfing weapons would only make things more challenging/rewarding. But you don't like challenges do you, that's why you don't pvp in the first place.

you do realize it is an anti sniper weapon right? that now has a shorter range than most other weapons? why not just nerf the dmg and they are using a pvp excuse to nerf it and why not nerf all weapons then?

and if the infector is so op'd why do so few people use them?

Incendio
04-16-2013, 10:23 AM
But you don't like challenges do you, that's why you don't pvp in the first place.
Actually, the reason I don't bother with PvP is because there is no challenge. PvP just measures who can exploit poor game design decisions, overpowered weapons and game-breaking bugs better than the next guy. /yawn.

20 man raids offer much more challenge--organizing that many players to show up, be raid ready in their gear, consumables and attitude, work together as a cohesive unit, perform their roles well, be ready to meet the complexities of hard-mode bosses, know how other players will react to many situations and much more. PvP offers some of this in small snippets, but it's just not on the same scale.

I'm glad some players enjoy PvP, but the bread-and-butter for MMO's is the much larger PvE player base.

In Defiance, PvP and PvE are both super easy. There's very little "challenge" in either, but the game is still fun. It's something to do until Elder Scrolls Online comes out.

Mysfit
04-16-2013, 10:24 AM
agreed. they need to change the description, but the range nerf was well within necessity, infectors were second only to shotguns in raw power, and theirs could be used at such a long range. now nerf shotguns trion.

NO. stop nerfing things for pvp. yoiu will ruin pve.

Jeronan
04-16-2013, 10:24 AM
You must be kidding. A weapon with homing projectiles? Aim in their general direction -> win. It's a total joke.

So lets remove half the rocket launchers from the game too then?

I rather have them Block sertain weapons from use in PVP, then just swinging the nerf hammer left and right and ruin the PVE experience!

Mr Mikah
04-16-2013, 10:25 AM
Ehhhhhh most engagements occur at close to mid range in PVP; due to the extremely over used shotguns. The nerf seems pretty redundant considering that. It's going to make a mediocre PVE weapon even less viable, with little to no change in PVP.

Dwane
04-16-2013, 10:26 AM
Infectors were not OP in PVE at all. I never understood what the problem was in the first Place. Unless I had bad Luck and used the wrong ones or something?
Their damage output was already an utter joke and the least effective weapon. All it had going for that it was just fun to spray goo on mobs and see a few bugs pop out and do some AoE damage. No more than the average AoE rocket or grenade launcher.

Cuz mobs wont bunnyhop in fullsprint. And they let u freely shoot you at their heads while u sitting still and ADSing (while they either stand still or slowly moving in incredibly predictable patterns).

Thunderclap
04-16-2013, 10:27 AM
how about we boost weapons for PVE now and screw pvp for once?

How about we ban all weapons but knives and Grenades in PVP. That should make it a real challenge.

Multigun
04-16-2013, 10:27 AM
i second this notion.

trion specifically designed rift to segregate abilities in pvp and pve.

do the same for Defiance.

im a pvp player and even i know that dbarrels, pumps and infectors fall short in pve

just tweak them.

don't flame me for wanting pvp balance. while pvp balance should not supersede a game designed for pvp, and vice versa - balancing the weapons is still a good decision.

A competent PvP player? *Pinches self* no I'm not dreaming. Would it have been so hard for Trion to more or less copy and paste game mechanics that worked really well in Rift into this game? Just hope that I can still find a way to do decent damage with my Infector in PvE land :(

JaketheSnakeh
04-16-2013, 10:28 AM
Exactly, pvp should be made harder. Pvp shouldn't be fun or rewarding at all, should just be hard out slog where people brutalise each other. Pve should be where the rewards and fun gameplay are found, so if a weapon gets nerfed they should only do it to the pvp side of things so that pvp gets harder and more challenging. The challenge in pvp is, as you say, all the reward you need.

Pvp shouldn't be fun or rewarding? That's got to be one of the dumbest things I've heard.

Pve should be challenging, just as much as pvp.

Take your pure-pve mentality and go play a single player game.

VLX11387
04-16-2013, 10:29 AM
Infectors needed this. If you think PvE in this game is going to become worse just because they decided to nerf this gun, then I'm sorry but I highly disagree with you because PVE in this game is an utter joke when it comes to difficulty. If you really need the help of a gun that fires homing rounds and applies an OP debuff than you really need to just stick to single player games and set them on easy mode.

RawrKitty
04-16-2013, 10:30 AM
A competent PvP player? *Pinches self* no I'm not dreaming. Would it have been so hard for Trion to more or less copy and paste game mechanics that worked really well in Rift into this game? Just hope that I can still find a way to do decent damage with my Infector in PvE land :(

yeah. i find it a little peculiar that trion has one of the best track records for balancing rift between pve and pvp (imo), and only to see defiance completely derp all the way to derpland kind of irks me. its very clear that the core design and methods being used to fix issues and priority list is just far from where it should be, i kind of wish the dev team that was on rift would come slap these devs in the face.

i don't understand the concept behind making a TPS that has an open world with the entire games infrastructure being designed specifically to prevent interacting with other players.

forced solo instances (always fun to group with people and then be forced every 2 missions to solo, i had to wait an hour on my friend to finally down nim... lol), unusable and practically invisible chat, tiny notifications, no towns or postage or trade options, no global chat.

whether or not people want to believe it, defiance is an mmo. it needs to feel like one.

Wrenito
04-16-2013, 10:30 AM
In Defiance, PvP and PvE are both super easy. There's very little "challenge" in either, but the game is still fun. It's something to do until Elder Scrolls Online comes out.I'll agree with this. PVP is broken, and PVE is laughably easy.


you do realize it is an anti sniper weapon right? that now has a shorter range than most other weapons?You do realize guns in shooter games often get radically changed, nerfed, post launch. If someone wants to counter a sniper, counter snipe with a sniper rifle?

For people crying about weapons getting nerfed in pve due to pvp, adapt. The game really isn't that hard, and there are plenty of viable weapons for easymode pve.

JaketheSnakeh
04-16-2013, 10:30 AM
Infectors needed this. If you think PvE in this game is going to become worse just because they decided to nerf this gun, then I'm sorry but I highly disagree with you because PVE in this game is an utter joke when it comes to difficulty. If you really need the help of a gun that fires homing rounds and applies an OP debuff than you really need to just stick to single player games and set them on easy mode.

+1

Definitely.

Thunderclap
04-16-2013, 10:31 AM
Seriously getting p!ssed at so many good games getting spoiled by pve brats, who think keeping imbalanced weapons in the game is good and doesn't effect pve.

PVE in this game is a complete and utter joke. Nerfing weapons would only make things more challenging/rewarding. But you don't like challenges do you, that's why you don't pvp in the first place.

I don't PVP because a) ITS A WASTE OF TIME. There is really only one way to do and everybody has done it. Go buy that game and play it. b)I actually work 40hr weeks and since dont have time to spend 17 hrs online learning and dying. I want ot finish the mission in an hour or two on the first try

Magrock
04-16-2013, 10:32 AM
So lets remove half the rocket launchers from the game too then?

I rather have them Block sertain weapons from use in PVP, then just swinging the nerf hammer left and right and ruin the PVE experience!

The homing rocket launchers have a very high TTK. The infectors had a very low TTK.

Lollie
04-16-2013, 10:32 AM
Pvp shouldn't be fun or rewarding.

The challenge and thrill is all a pvp player needs, that's why they play fps games where all the loot is the same - they're just going for thrills and don't need loot, glory and place on a leaderboard is reward enough for a pvp player.

Pve is where the game needs to be fun and loot is found (mobs don't b!tch and moan and cry for you to be nerfed when you kill them). In pvp everyone should be wearing pretty much the same gear, it's the only way to stop this nerf cycle.

Thunderclap
04-16-2013, 10:34 AM
I'll agree with this. PVP is broken, and PVE is laughably easy.

You do realize guns in shooter games often get radically changed, nerfed, post launch. If someone wants to counter a sniper, counter snipe with a sniper rifle?

For people crying about weapons getting nerfed in pve due to pvp, adapt. The game really isn't that hard, and there are plenty of viable weapons for easymode pve.

How about this, let the people who actually buy the bits decide. I will buy a $h!tload of bits if it guarentees they nerf PVP everytime. How about YOU ADAPT. I'll drop $100 a month if it gets me the ability to solo quickly and cleanly, will you?

Wrenito
04-16-2013, 10:38 AM
I actually work 40hr weeks and since dont have time to spend 17 hrs online learning and dying. I want ot finish the mission in an hour or two on the first tryBecause you work full time, you want the game tailored to you. You want to be able to finish everything on first try. Anything else you'd like spoon fed?

K A S H I H A R A D
04-16-2013, 10:39 AM
For people crying about weapons getting nerfed in pve due to pvp, adapt.

So those of us grinding for combat pursuits should enjoy having extra hours lumped on at any given point in time to appease a branch of the community we rarely associate with?

Sounds legit.

Jestunhi
04-16-2013, 10:39 AM
This has been happening since the hayday of MMO.

Ultima Online was completely destroyed by a relatively small community of whiners.

UO was ruined by Trammel. The whiners that ruined it were the anti-PvP people.


That said, it's foolish to continue to try to balance PvP and PvE based on the same stats. A mob is not the same as a player, we all know this. It's time that developers in general realised it too.

Wrenito
04-16-2013, 10:40 AM
How about this, let the people who actually buy the bits decide. I will buy a $h!tload of bits if it guarentees they nerf PVP everytime. How about YOU ADAPT. I'll drop $100 a month if it gets me the ability to solo quickly and cleanly, will you?Hahahaha ok you waste your money there champ. Teach me a lesson.

Wrenito
04-16-2013, 10:42 AM
So those of us grinding for combat pursuits should enjoy having extra hours lumped on at any given point in time to appease a branch of the community we rarely associate with?

Sounds legit.Extra hours? Lets exaggerate more please. And assuming it did add hours to gameplay, then that'd simply be a bonus since this game is void of any meaningful content anyways.

Escalith
04-16-2013, 10:50 AM
So wait. How does a '31%' nerf to range change the infector leveling/grinding rate at all?

If you kill Mutants/99ers/Raiders - it doesn't matter if you afk half the fight since most of them miss anyway, having to get a bit closer won't be a deal breaker.

If you kill Dark Matter, you need to LoS anyway else you're down in a few seconds. And if you LoS on Emergencys/Etc, it's most likely behind a car or similar causing any shots you take to be at close to melee range anyway.

Even if not, use terrain, cover, get closer - and hide while the bugs do the work.

Infectors never had front loaded damage, but if you on your own spawn a little army of 10+ bugs you take down anything in a matter of seconds. 31% less range won't do anything to change that.

K A S H I H A R A D
04-16-2013, 11:04 AM
So wait. How does a '31%' nerf to range change the infector leveling/grinding rate at all?

If you kill Mutants/99ers/Raiders - it doesn't matter if you afk half the fight since most of them miss anyway, having to get a bit closer won't be a deal breaker.

If you kill Dark Matter, you need to LoS anyway else you're down in a few seconds. And if you LoS on Emergencys/Etc, it's most likely behind a car or similar causing any shots you take to be at close to melee range anyway.

Even if not, use terrain, cover, get closer - and hide while the bugs do the work.

Infectors never had front loaded damage, but if you on your own spawn a little army of 10+ bugs you take down anything in a matter of seconds. 31% less range won't do anything to change that.

I'm more concerned about the bug speed and damage nerf than them potentially making one Infector model obsolete. Homing and range doesn't affect my grinding.

Draugluin
04-16-2013, 11:04 AM
Infectors never had front loaded damage, but if you on your own spawn a little army of 10+ bugs you take down anything in a matter of seconds. 31% less range won't do anything to change that.

You start the story from the end, and not from the beginning. 10+ bugs isn't an option at the start of an encounter. However, the opposition has got their numbers and thus it's the beginning of a fight when you're supposed to eliminate much of the threat.

The lone, last raider is always the easiest one.

Murzin
04-16-2013, 11:06 AM
UO was ruined by Trammel. The whiners that ruined it were the anti-PvP people.


That said, it's foolish to continue to try to balance PvP and PvE based on the same stats. A mob is not the same as a player, we all know this. It's time that developers in general realised it too.

errr... UO was ruined by the Rep Patch.

most people i know were so deep red it was stupid. then they added the synergy bonuses with like EI and Anat. and destroying the original combat formula of skill + tactics / 2 = % to hit, so at 100 both you were 100% to hit.

want to know the easiest way to wipe out everyone in the bone knight room in deceit?

3-4 people.

1) EQ 2x
2) casts 1-2 MS or CL, and maybe an EB or FB
3) casts EB or FB for cleanup

nice and easy way to have killed 20-30 people trying to level their melee skills.

trammel was just the final knife thrust for PvP. it had already been neutered pretty hard at that point. in its original form, THAT was purest form of PvP ever. it is why i cannot take PvP nowadays outside of like counter strike and such. PvP in MMOs is embarassingly simple and easy compared to real skill that was required in UO, even during the double-tap or insta-hit days. you cant even really call what in current MMOs "skill" because it is not. its all pure randomness of the RNGs, not skill. if you have to rely on a RNG to win, then its not skill.

i wonder when MMO makers/developers are going to realize, you cannot have true "skill" in a MMO environment. people would cry like little whiny babies. ESPECIALLY if you actually include CONSEQUENCES for losing. but then again people are used to the PvP in EQ and WoW and such where you get rewarded for LOSING!

sorry, i cant take anyone seriously who thinks PvP in any current MMO seriously. scratch that, im not sorry, you are just a carebear PvPer. tell me when you want a real PvP game that relies on player skill, not RNGs or gear. oh wait, you cant, those types of PvP MMOs failed because people couldnt hack it other than a select few of us.

Multigun
04-16-2013, 11:18 AM
yeah. i find it a little peculiar that trion has one of the best track records for balancing rift between pve and pvp (imo), and only to see defiance completely derp all the way to derpland kind of irks me. its very clear that the core design and methods being used to fix issues and priority list is just far from where it should be, i kind of wish the dev team that was on rift would come slap these devs in the face.

i don't understand the concept behind making a TPS that has an open world with the entire games infrastructure being designed specifically to prevent interacting with other players.

forced solo instances (always fun to group with people and then be forced every 2 missions to solo, i had to wait an hour on my friend to finally down nim... lol), unusable and practically invisible chat, tiny notifications, no towns or postage or trade options, no global chat.

whether or not people want to believe it, defiance is an mmo. it needs to feel like one.

I have faith that these things will happen someday. But that faith was given via Rifts developmental team. Defiance's developmental decisions is taking that reputation and burning it. Making some instances specifically solo also was kind of like a "wait...what?" moment for me. I haven't progressed to the final boss yet (850 EGO with a 600 EGO what used to be "main", started a new character to level with my bud before realizing that Defiance scaled baddies) but we just did the boss with the shields in the 99er area. I can tell that had it not been a forced single player mission, it would have been a a lot easier and its supposed to be hard. But couldn't they have just scaled up the difficulty like everything else? When you sit back and look at some of the decision making, it's almost painfully easy it should have been to make the "right" gameplay change only to see the developers took shortcuts or something. I love Defiance but man, when will the developers wake up?

Hope499
04-16-2013, 11:25 AM
How about this, let the people who actually buy the bits decide. I will buy a $h!tload of bits if it guarentees they nerf PVP everytime. How about YOU ADAPT. I'll drop $100 a month if it gets me the ability to solo quickly and cleanly, will you?

Well, I mean thats totally up to you, but how is that fun?

Pay more, for a game you paid for, so its LESS challenging? Gufaw? Confused I am. But if you wish to do that, go for it (Not really needed for this game tho...no need for grinding)

But nerfing it for EVRYONE, Helllll no, that would irratate me beyond belief....

Jeronan
04-16-2013, 11:28 AM
I'm more concerned about the bug speed and damage nerf than them potentially making one Infector model obsolete. Homing and range doesn't affect my grinding.

Yeah lol. I Guess she forgot to read that one. /shrug

SweetMadness
04-16-2013, 11:41 AM
I'll agree with this. PVP is broken, and PVE is laughably easy.

You do realize guns in shooter games often get radically changed, nerfed, post launch. If someone wants to counter a sniper, counter snipe with a sniper rifle?

For people crying about weapons getting nerfed in pve due to pvp, adapt. The game really isn't that hard, and there are plenty of viable weapons for easymode pve.

I have a question, why can't the PvPers learn to adapt? For everything there's a counter.

Cloak, counter with Decoy. There's a perk right there that makes Cloak visible when Decoy is active. Never mind you can teleport with Decoy. Oh infectors are over powered... learn to kill the bugs? That is the the only severe damage an infector user has unless they use a Canker, in which case all they have is the DoT, and you can easily drop them before the DoT can down you. 2-3 rounds from an AR matches/outdoes a single bug, and you can empty an AR clip before an Infector can get five bugs. Hey you know how they are limited in range? Stay out of their range.

Wrenito
04-16-2013, 11:46 AM
I have a question, why can't the PvPers learn to adapt? For everything there's a counter.

Cloak, counter with Decoy. There's a perk right there that makes Cloak visible when Decoy is active. Never mind you can teleport with Decoy. Oh infectors are over powered... learn to kill the bugs? That is the the only severe damage an infector user has unless they use a Canker, in which case all they have is the DoT, and you can easily drop them before the DoT can down you. 2-3 rounds from an AR matches/outdoes a single bug, and you can empty an AR clip before an Infector can get five bugs. Hey you know how they are limited in range? Stay out of their range.PVPers do adapt. Their weapons get nerfed, they migrate to the next best op flavor of the month. PVEers need to adapt too.

As for why they're not balancing perks instead of weapons... I'd assume its just easier to nerf X weapon, than changing a perk that could potentially involve the effectiveness of a far wider range of weapons.

Santana Ortega
04-16-2013, 11:50 AM
A better fix would be to remove the targeting completely. If you have a gun that has no targeting system and it comes down to pointing directly at your target and shoot as to whether you hit or not, maybe that would fix things?

TANKGERL
04-16-2013, 11:54 AM
Freaken PvP whiners.....Infector was perfectly fine in PvE. Why do game developers always follow the whining crowd and/or nerf things that directly effects PvE for PvP? Sigh...



I agree. I think the damage on all guns is to low already.

fang1192
04-16-2013, 11:55 AM
Honestly if the homing guns just effing shot straight you wouldnt need homing.

SweetMadness
04-16-2013, 11:56 AM
PVPers do adapt. Their weapons get nerfed, they migrate to the next best op flavor of the month. PVEers need to adapt too.

As for why they're not balancing perks instead of weapons... I'd assume its just easier to nerf X weapon, than changing a perk that could potentially involve the effectiveness of a far wider range of weapons.

Obviously they don't adapt if the weapons need to be nerfed for them to begin with. They don't need to balance/alter any perks. Players need to learn to use what's already there instead of crying for the nerf bat because they choose not to adapt.

Lollie
04-16-2013, 11:57 AM
I agree. I think the damage on all guns is to low already.

It is in pve - the mobs have tons more hitpoints than the players have...this is why the pve and pvp stats on guns and whatnot should be completely separate.

In pve the damage on guns actually needs to be increased across the board.

Wrenito
04-16-2013, 11:59 AM
Obviously they don't adapt if the weapons need to be nerfed for them to begin with. They don't need to balance/alter any perks. Players need to learn to use what's already there instead of crying for the nerf bat because they choose not to adapt.The forum QQers don't adapt, be it PVP or PVE QQers. But the majority of the players that continue to play their respective halves of the game, adapt.


It is in pve - the mobs have tons more hitpoints than the players have...this is why the pve and pvp stats on guns and whatnot should be completely separate.More HP =/= harder. PVE in this game is a joke. AI is terrible. Most the time the mobs just stand there, negating any added difficulty from shields and higher hp.

Kerry
04-16-2013, 12:05 PM
errr... UO was ruined by the Rep Patch.

most people i know were so deep red it was stupid. then they added the synergy bonuses with like EI and Anat. and destroying the original combat formula of skill + tactics / 2 = % to hit, so at 100 both you were 100% to hit.

want to know the easiest way to wipe out everyone in the bone knight room in deceit?

3-4 people.

1) EQ 2x
2) casts 1-2 MS or CL, and maybe an EB or FB
3) casts EB or FB for cleanup

nice and easy way to have killed 20-30 people trying to level their melee skills.

trammel was just the final knife thrust for PvP. it had already been neutered pretty hard at that point. in its original form, THAT was purest form of PvP ever. it is why i cannot take PvP nowadays outside of like counter strike and such. PvP in MMOs is embarassingly simple and easy compared to real skill that was required in UO, even during the double-tap or insta-hit days. you cant even really call what in current MMOs "skill" because it is not. its all pure randomness of the RNGs, not skill. if you have to rely on a RNG to win, then its not skill.

i wonder when MMO makers/developers are going to realize, you cannot have true "skill" in a MMO environment. people would cry like little whiny babies. ESPECIALLY if you actually include CONSEQUENCES for losing. but then again people are used to the PvP in EQ and WoW and such where you get rewarded for LOSING!

sorry, i cant take anyone seriously who thinks PvP in any current MMO seriously. scratch that, im not sorry, you are just a carebear PvPer. tell me when you want a real PvP game that relies on player skill, not RNGs or gear. oh wait, you cant, those types of PvP MMOs failed because people couldnt hack it other than a select few of us.

I was hoping to run into someone just like you here.

You do not disappoint.

PvP in UO is the only true form of PvP that has ever existed.

Anyone who hasn't experienced that doesn't not know the true meaning of the term "Player Killer".

Its sad how game developers continue to cater to the carebear players.

PixieStix
04-16-2013, 12:19 PM
PVPers do adapt. Their weapons get nerfed, they migrate to the next best op flavor of the month. PVEers need to adapt too.

As for why they're not balancing perks instead of weapons... I'd assume its just easier to nerf X weapon, than changing a perk that could potentially involve the effectiveness of a far wider range of weapons.

PvPers adapt? LOL - 95% of the PvP only clowns look online for the overpowered spec everyone else uses and then copies it without having a clue as to why they are using what they are using.

I prefer doing both and I would prefer my stats being separate.

Ralifur
04-16-2013, 12:22 PM
I was hoping to run into someone just like you here.

You do not disappoint.

PvP in UO is the only true form of PvP that has ever existed.

Anyone who hasn't experienced that doesn't not know the true meaning of the term "Player Killer".

Its sad how game developers continue to cater to the carebear players.

Sad yet understandable. Theres more of them so its a bigger income aiming for them.
The day today its almost all about money. Its rare to see a developer who develops a game which he has a passion for. Its more just income to pay the salary. :-)

Wrenito
04-16-2013, 12:26 PM
PvPers adapt? LOL - 95% of the PvP only clowns look online for the overpowered spec everyone else uses and then copies it without having a clue as to why they are using what they are using.They need to look online for an overpowered spec, in this game? After a couple matches, they can tell what most people are running. Lets not pretend "builds" in this game are complex.

Draugluin
04-16-2013, 12:33 PM
i wonder when MMO makers/developers are going to realize, you cannot have true "skill" in a MMO environment. people would cry like little whiny babies. ESPECIALLY if you actually include CONSEQUENCES for losing. but then again people are used to the PvP in EQ and WoW and such where you get rewarded for LOSING!

sorry, i cant take anyone seriously who thinks PvP in any current MMO seriously. scratch that, im not sorry, you are just a carebear PvPer. tell me when you want a real PvP game that relies on player skill, not RNGs or gear. oh wait, you cant, those types of PvP MMOs failed because people couldnt hack it other than a select few of us.

I wonder when they apply these rules to the real world. Sure, you can have "skill" of making terrible mistakes. And yes, governments reward you for ruining millions of lives (some eternally).

You only need to be a European banker.

PixieStix
04-16-2013, 12:33 PM
They need to look online for an overpowered spec, in this game? After a couple matches, they can tell what most people are running. Lets not pretend "builds" in this game are complex.

Every game bud...every game. Go into any game on the market that has PvP. Pick one, I could care less. Then look up a spec for PvP for that game, be it a class or a skill set. Do all of this before installing the game.

Now, install the game and join PvP. More than half, if not closer to 75% of the people you see will be using what you just found.

Like I said, I find PvP as a fun side game in most games, but let's not pretend it takes some tremendous skill to actually be good in MMO PvP. That's an oxymoron.

You also need to realize as a PvP only player that you are a vast minority in these games. No MMO's would survive in today's market catering only to PvP.

Wrenito
04-16-2013, 12:40 PM
Every game bud...every game. Go into any game on the market that has PvP. Pick one, I could care less. Then look up a spec for PvP for that game, be it a class or a skill set. Do all of this before installing the game.

You also need to realize as a PvP only player that you are a vast minority in these games. No MMO's would survive in today's market catering only to PvP.I'm not denying pvpers roll "flavor of the month". I even stated it in my original post you first quoted. I'm pointing out the fact that builds in this game are not complex. Someone wouldn't have to "do research" to find the op build that everybody is using.

And who said I was a pvp player? You say no mmo's can survive today catering only to pvp, yet Trion has done that with Rift (class balancing), and thus far is doing it in this game.

umKthcbye
04-16-2013, 12:42 PM
You must be kidding. A weapon with homing projectiles? Aim in their general direction -> win. It's a total joke.

Homing is iffi at most, I know, because I use allot of the infectors. The rang is just stupid short, and the dmg is almost non-existent if you don't hit with everything in the clip. I've developed techniques to survive using it, but for the most part there is nothing easier then point and click like the shotguns.

I've used the Cankers and while they do decent dmg(if you hit allot) and the dmg is only DOT which can be healed the range is crap and you get pumped in the face one shot killed.

The Antisniper ones are decent range that I am happy with at 35-40, but the dmg is abysmal, having to spawn bugs then the bugs hardly do ANY dmg if the target is running because you can run faster then the bugs do, and the bugs can be shot, blown up, etc..

So no, the Infectors are no where close to OP in PVP compared to Stealth noobcanons.
Also, the homing accuracy isn't that great to begin with you only have a smallish spot that it actually triggers the homing, otherwise it flies right by. Been upgrading Infectors all week and paying very close attention to how the projectiles work and move.

Nexos_Arc
04-16-2013, 12:44 PM
i think there are sufficient perma-death options out there for the ambitious PvP player.

Draugluin
04-16-2013, 12:45 PM
Sad yet understandable. Theres more of them so its a bigger income aiming for them.
The day today its almost all about money. Its rare to see a developer who develops a game which he has a passion for. Its more just income to pay the salary. :-)

Of course it's about the money. If the developers wouldn't get their paycheck they needed to do other activities instead of programming to make the ends meet.

It's also about customers. I know I find it much more enjoyable to play with friends. Maybe 20 years ago I had this urge of competiveness over other players. Therefore I probably would like to support more games for co-operation (both Borderlands) rather than pvp-oriented stuff.

Those who enjoy more of pvp-games do have got their products. Pvp ensures the games never evolve. Like this new idea of infector that needed to turn into pea shooter. Aiming, shooting, throwing grenades... none of these have evolved significantly since the days of Quake or Unreal Tournament.

PixieStix
04-16-2013, 12:47 PM
I'm not denying pvpers roll "flavor of the month". I even stated it in my original post you first quoted. I'm pointing out the fact that builds in this game are not complex. Someone wouldn't have to "do research" to find the op build that everybody is using.

And who said I was a pvp player? You say no mmo's can survive today catering only to pvp, yet Trion has done that with Rift (class balancing), and thus far is doing it in this game.

Complex or not, I can assure you people will look to see what others use and copy it. People hate dying, therefore they will look up anything that will give them the perception of being OP.

As far as Trion surviving, they are doing so by NOT catering to either side, but improving both of them separately. I'm pretty sure you didn't mean to say they cater only to PvP in the quoted post.

Kerry
04-16-2013, 01:04 PM
"You cant get 40 kills and 3 deaths! F*ucking hacking *****es!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qcaa0yIA8H4

Evilution
04-16-2013, 01:05 PM
Haven't got the patch yet as I'm on ps3, been levelling infectors most of the week. I don't see why the bug damage and speed should be nerfed tbh, it's not like they are really powerful. Probably all the other weapons will out damage an infector with just there damage stat, add nano effects on top of that and they are even less effective. Infectors do good damage on certain enemies weak spots and the arkfall crystals weak spots, because they still tick after the weak spot has vanished. That is the only advantage, but constant fire from an automatic weapon while the weak spot is available probably does more damage than it. Fire effect can do this too, so it's not like it's unique to infectors. I can understand a nerf to the homing as I can strafe around with Blur and just hit multiple enemies without properly focusing my aim. I hope I can still get good use out of them in pve (don't pvp), as they are probably my favourite weapon type.

Swarm
04-16-2013, 01:13 PM
why not just get a shotgun if you want to pvp? simple as that rite? i mean i did it pretty easily so why souldnt everyone else?....

Daovud Vest
04-16-2013, 01:18 PM
Overpowered this and overpowered that, isn't it funny that there is a perk called 'Overpower'. That's beside the point though, remember how this game has been out for just shy of two weeks and not years? Their still working everything out, no developer can foresee how players will exploit their game. There is no completely balanced game in existence that I know of (if there is please message me) and this game is no exception. Just ride the trends until it gets to the point that they are as closed to balance as it gets.

umKthcbye
04-16-2013, 04:02 PM
Canker is down from 17/18 to 10 range.
Afflictor from 34 to 20.
Invaders at 10 now.
But I'm happy my Immunizer AKA Andti-Sniper is still at 40. So they all got nerfed but then one. Ill live.

Toba
04-16-2013, 04:28 PM
Wow so they nerf this because pvp? Oh god infecter is the only PVE gun i use now it just straight up jack **** wtf.

Evilution
04-16-2013, 04:29 PM
Canker is down from 17/18 to 10 range.
Afflictor from 34 to 20.
Invaders at 10 now.
But I'm happy my Immunizer AKA Andti-Sniper is still at 40. So they all got nerfed but then one. Ill live.Whats the bug damage now ? I'm ps3 and don't have the patch yet.

umKthcbye
04-16-2013, 05:04 PM
Whats the bug damage now ? I'm ps3 and don't have the patch yet.

DMG for bugs is the same, they only really lowered the range on all but the Anti Sniper.

Cyripax NeoPrime
04-16-2013, 05:30 PM
Infectors needed this. If you think PvE in this game is going to become worse just because they decided to nerf this gun, then I'm sorry but I highly disagree with you because PVE in this game is an utter joke when it comes to difficulty. If you really need the help of a gun that fires homing rounds and applies an OP debuff than you really need to just stick to single player games and set them on easy mode.
Id have to agree with you, pve in this game is fairly easy......but the infectors in pve arent as op as you think. The concept with infectors was awesome, and they were my fav weapon. Now having said that , I NEVER used them.lol, they were my fav in the sense that I wished I could use them ....the fact of the matter is they were so underpowered in pve its not even funny. They only home on a target if you aim really really close to them, they werent gRaunteed to hit someone just by aiming them in the same direction. The homing range was terrible, and even when you were gettting it to home on a target, you had to unload a full clip, reload then hit em 3 more times for bugs to even to even hatch, otherwise the 2 other guys shooting at you along with your target would kill ya dead before you could even kill a target with an infector in pve. I wished to god I coulda used my cool looking sporeshot in pve. But the gun sucked so bad b4 the nerf I never did. Because did I mention it sucked? Now I will NEVER even think to use it. So just remove it from the game. Cos its uselessness in pve is 210% now. And while were at it remove all homing rocket launchers which were far more effective at homing then infectors were. Lets not forget the damage on a single infector shot on average if no bugs hatched was only 4. A lousy 4 damage. Why were the y in the game in the first place, really? R.i.p. Sporeshot

Im personally with the gal who said to just remove the homing capabilities on infectors, because then they would have just been a really underpowered cool gun , now theyre a rediculously underpowered lame piece of shyyyyyt

DustOfDeath
04-16-2013, 05:34 PM
but 10 range is plain stupid in any way... it has less effective range then a shotgun.
I need to run into the mobs face to shoot.

Evilution
04-16-2013, 05:37 PM
but 10 range is plain stupid in any way... it has less effective range then a shotgun.
I need to run into the mobs face to shoot.It's less than a shotgun lol, that's some great thinking there lol. If it fires fast and is an up close weapon like an smg for instance, at least let it put out same damage as one trion :p

Jack Johnson
04-16-2013, 05:41 PM
Edit: After actually playing in game, the nerf to canker range makes their effective range smaller than pump shotties. I think I'm done with infectors until they get a buff to compensate. Really too bad, they were unique and usable but hardly OP in PvE, and nobody really used cankers or invaders in PvP from my experience anyways.

Not liking the direction this patch is taking the game...

DeciBraval
04-17-2013, 01:11 AM
Man i really want that commando title, and now i have to get this useless weapon to lvl10...
Is the lvl progression also nerfed? i have been using my infector for days and its hardly any progress.. (weapon is not maxed out)
Gonna take me weeks maybe months using a weapon i dont like to get stupid title.. lol
Ahh the agony.. maybe i should play Kenshi instead..

Evilution
04-17-2013, 01:24 AM
Man i really want that commando title, and now i have to get this useless weapon to lvl10...
Is the lvl progression also nerfed? i have been using my infector for days and its hardly any progress.. (weapon is not maxed out)
Gonna take me weeks maybe months using a weapon i dont like to get stupid title.. lol
Ahh the agony.. maybe i should play Kenshi instead..Like I said earlier, I have been leveling infectors also, I feel your pain. These are really slow compared to others to level.

seoulstar
04-17-2013, 01:27 AM
That got nerfed..yet the shotguns can still one shot people..

Escalith
04-17-2013, 05:10 AM
Like I said earlier, I have been leveling infectors also, I feel your pain. These are really slow compared to others to level.


Infectors? Slow?

Please, try a BMG. :>

Evilution
04-17-2013, 05:20 AM
Infectors? Slow?

Please, try a BMG. :>Lol never thought about them :p

Antherage
04-17-2013, 07:00 AM
The range nerf is not a problem for the higher-end versions. Immunizer, 40 range, Afflictor, 20 range. These still work fine. You have to get a bit closer and that is all good for me.

But, it really made the lower-end ranged Infectors absolute trash in both PvE and PvP. They have TEN range now. TEN. This is so close you are looking down the barrel of someone's shotgun and there is no point in using them in both PvP and PvE. Chasing a rolling matron in an Arkfall? Have fun with that ten range... walking up to ANY npc with friends nearby? Focus fired!

It's fine to change things, but the 10 range on the low-ranged Infectors is just too much. You might as well remove them from the game at that point. Nothing is limited to that short of range excluding sawed-off shotguns, and they even have a remote chance of hitting someone further away, but Infectors? No chance unless you're locking on.

I don't mind the other changes like bug speed/damage. You should be able to out-run the bugs and avoid them, but the ranged... ouch.

Antherage
04-17-2013, 07:09 AM
The homing rocket launchers have a very high TTK. The infectors had a very low TTK.

Infector's kill quickly, huh? Faster than a shotgun? Grenade launcher or 0 second detonation grenades?

People are complaining about Infectors, and the actual nerf itself is fine for most of the versions, but they have made the Canker and low range infectors absolutely worthless. 10 range is incredibly short, and there is no other option to "aim" and "skill" shot someone with it. If there was... sure!

I could care less if the lock-on existed or not, but the weapons are worthless without it in their current state.(the 10 ranged ones) I don't like the idea I traded and leveled up weapons to get orange versions of Cankers, ect, and then have the rug swept out from under me and have worthless oranges sitting in my inventory.

I mean its horrendously bad. Pick one up and try to kill someone in PvP with it now. Even PvE is silly.

DS Triggah
04-17-2013, 07:11 AM
The range nerf is not a problem for the higher-end versions. Immunizer, 40 range, Afflictor, 20 range. These still work fine. You have to get a bit closer and that is all good for me.

But, it really made the lower-end ranged Infectors absolute trash in both PvE and PvP. They have TEN range now. TEN. This is so close you are looking down the barrel of someone's shotgun and there is no point in using them in both PvP and PvE. Chasing a rolling matron in an Arkfall? Have fun with that ten range... walking up to ANY npc with friends nearby? Focus fired!

It's fine to change things, but the 10 range on the low-ranged Infectors is just too much. You might as well remove them from the game at that point. Nothing is limited to that short of range excluding sawed-off shotguns, and they even have a remote chance of hitting someone further away, but Infectors? No chance unless you're locking on.

I don't mind the other changes like bug speed/damage. You should be able to out-run the bugs and avoid them, but the ranged... ouch.

I cant actually agree more i thought i went for a weak weapon when it was damage over time and 17 range now its 10 range its actually laughable i said to my mate they might as well chuck it out of the window what would you choose it close range a dmg over time gun lol yeah right it is patheic im so with you

umKthcbye
04-17-2013, 09:16 AM
So just started using my second canker to lvl it up and it's pretty much useless in PVE with a 10 range.
Guess I'm sticking to Anti Sniper ones.

Evilution
04-17-2013, 10:49 AM
So just started using my second canker to lvl it up and it's pretty much useless in PVE with a 10 range.
Guess I'm sticking to Anti Sniper ones.That sucks, canker became my favourite after testing them all out :(

umKthcbye
04-17-2013, 10:57 AM
That sucks, canker became my favourite after testing them all out :(

I really like it for PVE but not much for PVP as I found the homming didn't work as well. I use the 40 range purple VBI INF-27 Immunizer as my main in PVP paired with a VBI AR2 Bonfire and pyro grenades, paired up with my perks I have a fun PVP time, other then when its a shotgun stealth ***** fest.

The canker was the best in PVE because of fast shooting and the DOT on bosses. It's what I used to beat Nim, Canker and Immunizer.

Hopefully they raise it up a bit in range. Or raise the dmg if they keep this horrible range.

Also, anyone know why the Infectors have a scope option but there isn't any scopes for then at markets?