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timassin
11-26-2012, 08:07 AM
Hey there, just wondering how you guys think this game will do will firefAll in the mix. Firefall seems very similar to this game. I know the firefall class customization is incredibly huge in firefall.

satyre74
11-26-2012, 08:10 AM
Been playing firefall for about 8 months... it's still in beta, so it could change more in the future. I think this game is different enough that it shouldn't cause any major hiccups between the two different games. The sort of customizations in firefall are likely to not be the kinds of things that we are going to see in Defiance. Also, the fact that you can customize the player you're on much more than in firefall and that there are other races besides human to play make this more interesting to me.

vampero
11-26-2012, 02:40 PM
Hey there, just wondering how you guys think this game will do will firefAll in the mix. Firefall seems very similar to this game. I know the firefall class customization is incredibly huge in firefall.

I wish I could compare but I just don't like the game play, Skill tree and feel of Firefall. I never played Defiance yet. Here is the link to game play video's http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?324-Defiance-Trion-Worlds-Livestream-Alpha-FEEDBACK

Siantlark
11-26-2012, 04:53 PM
Been playing firefall for about 8 months... it's still in beta, so it could change more in the future. I think this game is different enough that it shouldn't cause any major hiccups between the two different games. The sort of customizations in firefall are likely to not be the kinds of things that we are going to see in Defiance. Also, the fact that you can customize the player you're on much more than in firefall and that there are other races besides human to play make this more interesting to me.

Defiance will have crafting as well won't it? Firefall's crafting system is pretty robust, especially for a shooter. Also Firefall is planned to have Open World PvP between factions and maybe other races.

If you ask me though they are similar enough that they'll be competing on the same territory. Both games want to make a skill based shooter in a large open persistent world with dynamic events that actively shape the players activities and outlook of the world. They also emphasize team based gameplay with supplemental skills, weapon loadouts, crafting, and diverse "classes" which are battleframes in Firefall and gear in Defiance. Firefall is also Free to Play compared to Defiance's Pay to Play system so that's another thing to compare between the two.

Ongoing list:

Similarities:
Skill based shooter at the core
Large Open World that has PvE
PvP lobbies
Emphasis on team based gameplay
Supplemental Skills
Crafting
Vehicles
Enemies that are bugs
Aliens.

Differences:
Firefall has
A different aesthetic
Gliders
Jumpjets
Aliens as the main enemies
Rigid class base
Thumping (A way of gathering minerals. Innovative and different enough to list as a seperate asset)
Free to play
and probably things that I'm missing

Defiance has
More fluid classes (Ie no classes at all. Roles and abilities based on gear)
Pay to Play system
Tv Show attached
The ability for the show and the game to affect each other
Multiple allied races

Sanador
11-26-2012, 06:17 PM
Defiance and Firefall will definitely be competing to win a common audience. I can speak for myself. I am currently testing firefall and will test defiance to see which one will be my home mmo for 2013. I am hoping Defiance wins out, but firefall definitely has my attention

Jenbuu
11-26-2012, 06:49 PM
when i last played firefall there wasnt alot in it so i didnt really play much at all

with crafting, there isnt at the moment anything that says that there will be, but Rob hill said in a interview with Kalbuir that there wasnt going to be any crafting in the game :(

Fikticio
11-26-2012, 07:27 PM
Defiance will have crafting as well won't it? Firefall's crafting system is pretty robust, especially for a shooter. ......

...........
Tv Show attached
The ability for the show and the game to affect each other
Multiple allied races

Siantlark,

I would like to correct some of your statements.

- We dont no if Defiance will have crafting and in FireFall the PvE is all build around crafting, you dont have nothing more to drive your PvE.
- Defiance will have an Open world PvP that will have a free for all mechanic, in Firefall because thumping is the maine activity open world PvP as no place in my view, and so far they have no faction to choose.
- You say "If you ask me though they are similar enough that they'll be competing on the same territory", well if you ask me, they are different enoff that they will not be in the same territory. PvE in Firefall is more casual frendly and in Defiance for what i have see and the rest of the games of TRION i will assume there will be content for all.
- You talk of events, first Defiance, lets say just this: look at rift evenst system. Now Firefall, at the very beginning you just add thumping to do in open world (besides there missions), as other games started to appear and the open world activity was a very powerfull stuff they put on the game 3 more open world events. One is like a twister that atract stuff and enemies to fight, an other is a crashed thumper that you go salvage and they also atract stuff and enemies. The last is a patrol that spwons and you go and kill.


Now looking at your "Ongoing list:", i will just say the rongs.

Similarities:
-Emphasis on team based gameplay- Firefall is more a free for all game, you dont need to be in group to do any of there activities, and they dont have co-op based maps (instanced), you can do all the PvE content alone. Just the PvP in Firefall requires "team play".


Differences:
- "Thumping", I will tell you why i put this here. Thumping may be in the game a way to gather, but at is core it was to be and it is the maine activity to do in the game. Its like a rift in RIFT, you do it for the final reword, in RIFT its the planarite and the tokens, in Firefall its the mats. Same things diferent look and name.


To finish i will make a list of pros for Defiance, because of after 7 months of playing the Beta of Firefall i can say this: i will not be playing more of this game (stoped 2 weeks ago).

PROS:
- better looking grafics (the arte styl)
- 2 playable races
- in depth character costomisation
- in depth armor (appearance) costomisation
- Co-op maps (instanced) for 4 players so far, mabe they will do for more and with different lvl of dificulties (like in rift)
- World events of diferent typs and size
- reword on exploration (look at what RIFT did and is doing)
... etc ...



Keep the good worck TRION.

Fikticio
11-26-2012, 07:30 PM
And i was forgeting we still dont know if Defiance will be pay to play or not.

Siantlark
11-26-2012, 09:55 PM
when i last played firefall there wasnt alot in it so i didnt really play much at all

with crafting, there isnt at the moment anything that says that there will be, but Rob hill said in a interview with Kalbuir that there wasnt going to be any crafting in the game :(
I stand corrected then.


- We dont no if Defiance will have crafting and in FireFall the PvE is all build around crafting, you dont have nothing more to drive your PvE.
Hahahaha :D Yeah I was corrected earlier. My fault guys. Should've done more research. However it is not true that PvE in Firefall is built all around crafting. Red5 has repeatedly said that they want the Chosen War to be the main focus with cooperation between the entire server pushing back against the Melding and Chosen not crafting. The reason that Thumping and Crafting is getting so much attention is that the RTS AI system is not in place yet.
- Defiance will have an Open world PvP that will have a free for all mechanic, in Firefall because thumping is the maine activity open world PvP as no place in my view, and so far they have no faction to choose.
While... yes there are no factions yet in Firefall there will. Defiance has an Open World PvP system as well so i thought that we could include that as a similarity.
- You say "If you ask me though they are similar enough that they'll be competing on the same territory", well if you ask me, they are different enoff that they will not be in the same territory. PvE in Firefall is more casual frendly and in Defiance for what i have see and the rest of the games of TRION i will assume there will be content for all.
Well I can't really comment on Rift or Trions previous games. I'm a shooter player not an MMO player. You'll have to forgive my ignorance about this.

- You talk of events, first Defiance, lets say just this: look at rift evenst system. Now Firefall, at the very beginning you just add thumping to do in open world (besides there missions), as other games started to appear and the open world activity was a very powerfull stuff they put on the game 3 more open world events. One is like a twister that atract stuff and enemies to fight, an other is a crashed thumper that you go salvage and they also atract stuff and enemies. The last is a patrol that spwons and you go and kill.
You haven't logged into Firefall lately have you? They've just diversified the world and added a lot more missions, aggressive AI spawns, and watchtower/city/POI takeovers.


Now looking at your "Ongoing list:", i will just say the rongs.

Similarities:
-Emphasis on team based gameplay- Firefall is more a free for all game, you dont need to be in group to do any of there activities, and they dont have co-op based maps (instanced), you can do all the PvE content alone. Just the PvP in Firefall requires "team play".
They now have unique Melding bosses that you need to work together with multiple squads to defeat. Most of the dynamic events that have cropped up (Tornadoes, Watchtower Takeovers, etc etc.) require multiple people.

Differences:
- "Thumping", I will tell you why i put this here. Thumping may be in the game a way to gather, but at is core it was to be and it is the maine activity to do in the game. Its like a rift in RIFT, you do it for the final reword, in RIFT its the planarite and the tokens, in Firefall its the mats. Same things diferent look and name.
Like I said didn't play RIFT dunno about the Rift system there.


To finish i will make a list of pros for Defiance, because of after 7 months of playing the Beta of Firefall i can say this: i will not be playing more of this game (stoped 2 weeks ago).

PROS:
- better looking grafics (the arte styl)
Opinion. Shouldn't be a Pro but whatever.
- 2 playable races
I thought we had more races playable in Defiance? Yep Seven.
- in depth character costomisation
Eh. Both of them have this no?
- in depth armor (appearance) costomisation
See ^
- Co-op maps (instanced) for 4 players so far, mabe they will do for more and with different lvl of dificulties (like in rift)
That is definitely something I am looking forward to in Defiance that will not be in Firefall AFAIK.
- World events of diferent typs and size
Again that's in there.
- reword on exploration (look at what RIFT did and is doing)
I'll give you that. Exploration in Firefall really isn't rewarded.
... etc ...



Keep the good worck TRION.

Responses be all written up in Red.

EdelweissGrimm
11-28-2012, 01:57 AM
I have seen some gameplay videos for Firefall but it still doesn't do anything for me.

Fikticio
11-28-2012, 07:22 AM
I stand corrected then.


Responses be all written up in Red.


Hi Siantlark,

Sorry if I had a bad choice of words in some cases and if I was not clear enough on the point I was trying to make.

I know that now there is more to do besides thumping, but, when Red5 put the game on the beta they said early this year (one of the first convetion of the year) that Thumping and crafting will be the maine focus of there PvE, and, in a way it still is, you just have to go to the foundry of the mecanic.
Regarding what Rob Hill said, its my fault, i was talking in Defiance about the upgrade sisteme, should have not called hit crafting, sorry, but to me in a sense it is.

On the open PvP, my point was unclear. I whanted to say that open world PvP in Firefall was not needed and my my view as almost no sense. But if they need to put it in, ok.

In the events system, what i ment ist that, if not for games like GW2 and RIFT, that focused a lot of resources in those, Firefall mabe would still have just Thumping in it.



-Emphasis on team based gameplay-
Here, what i just ment is that in Firefall you dont need to group up to do it. You are just there and you participate, you do dmg or heal or suport... there is no real reson for you to group up. No co-op maps. No real need of a guild or a clan. Its more casual frendly.


In last my pro list was not to be what Defiance add and Firefall not. Just What for me is appealing in the game.
But if you whant to go that way.

- The arte style, ye its a matter of opinion.
- Yes the game as only 2 playable races, not 7. 7 is the total of alien races of the game/tv show. If you look at there live 24hour stream they said it, and in others interviews to.
- in depth character costomisation, Trion said that they will have a character criation with a lot of option, they mentioned tatoo and haircuts skin ton... and in the videos they have you can see where its going to be. In Firefall you can not call there character criation a good one.
- in depth armor (appearance) costomisation, jsut look at Defiance videos and you will tons of different "players". In Firefall after 7 months my Bioframme looks the same and i have made several spare changes and improvement. Whats the point in be a TPS if you have a FPS look a like game. If i play a TPS i whant to feel the evolution on the armor, look at what you can do in Mass Effect with Shepard's armor and it makes it look cool.


I hope I have been more clear this time.



Go Defiance go.

Carnak
12-03-2012, 06:34 PM
Definitely some similarities - sci-fi, shooter, post-apoc, open classless / muticlass character development.

But I think Defiance has some big advantages.

I am aware of Firefall and have read the occasional article but I already knew about Defiance so never got into it. At most I might have played it to pass the time while waiting for Defiance, if Firefall had made it out first.

Two key things:

1) Many potential players of Defiance and Firefall would be sci-fi fans. There's no real sci-fi on TV any more. Lots of sci-fans are starved and desperate. Defiance the TV show only needs to be semi-good to pick up an audience.

All other things being equal (gameplay, appeal etc.) I think if someone is watching the show and even liking it a little they would choose Defiance over Firefall.

2) Anyone who follows the industry even a little bit closely couldn't be ignorant of Rift's good reputation. That makes me more confident about Defiance than Firefall. I'm also very impressed with eg. Rift's recently released housing system and the possibility of a similarly robust housing system being introduced in Defiance makes me drool a little.

Siantlark
12-03-2012, 09:33 PM
Definitely some similarities - sci-fi, shooter, post-apoc, open classless / muticlass character development.

But I think Defiance has some big advantages.

I am aware of Firefall and have read the occasional article but I already knew about Defiance so never got into it. At most I might have played it to pass the time while waiting for Defiance, if Firefall had made it out first.

Two key things:

1) Many potential players of Defiance and Firefall would be sci-fi fans. There's no real sci-fi on TV any more. Lots of sci-fans are starved and desperate. Defiance the TV show only needs to be semi-good to pick up an audience.

All other things being equal (gameplay, appeal etc.) I think if someone is watching the show and even liking it a little they would choose Defiance over Firefall.

2) Anyone who follows the industry even a little bit closely couldn't be ignorant of Rift's good reputation. That makes me more confident about Defiance than Firefall. I'm also very impressed with eg. Rift's recently released housing system and the possibility of a similarly robust housing system being introduced in Defiance makes me drool a little.

There is no good sci-fi on TV anymore which is mostly the fault of producers and such pigeonholing sci-fi into the geeky/nerdy niche that won't garner a wide audience (Never mind the fact that other genre shows and films like the Walking Dead, Game of Thrones, and LOTR have a large following) so if the show is any good it'll definitely be a plus.

You could argue that the fact that Red5 is made up of many veteran developers in the industry (Mark Kern, Scott Youngblood, Former Bioware, 38 studios, etc etc. is also reason to be confident in them but you're right. Red5 is a new company and a new IP and it's unproven like Trion has been with Rift.

I'd honestly like to see them both succeed. They're promising new IP's that can potentially have a larger effect in revitalizing and expanding a stale category of games that have been needlessly neglected for the part generation. The shooter scene and the MMO scene need hybrids like Firefall and Defiance to try and bring back interest.

SparklingNugs
12-04-2012, 01:10 PM
Personally, I love everything about FireFall except for the jetpacks. Unfortunately, they're a huge part.

NitroMidgets
12-04-2012, 06:57 PM
I've been around Firefall for over two years now. I think that both games are different enough to garner their own fans as well as shared fans. I'm waiting for Defiance yet I am an NCO on the Firefall forums. From what I have seen I could easily get lost in either game world. There is enough great concepts in common while having their own spin on gaming and individual characteristics. Simply put, there is room for two genre creating games out there.

Things don't have to compete against each other in order to for them to each be a huge success.

Carnak
12-08-2012, 01:12 PM
Things don't have to compete against each other in order to for them to each be a huge success.

I'm sure there'll be some players who play both especially since at least one (Firefall) will be free to play.

But a lot of players (eg. me) prefer to play one game at a time regardless of payment model. For those players every game is in competition for their attention (and money).

Zore
12-23-2012, 05:43 PM
I'm not sure can really compare the two as far as fun factor goes. Defiance is in another league altogether. If you like to push and hold the mouse button then firefall wins. 3 out of 5 classes just hold the mouse button down while shooting.

Firefall may have been great before it got bought out by a F2P Chinese company but as of right now its complete garbage.

Firefall is built on PVP but yet the only class anyone plays is assault its like a carl gustav with a jet pack.

In my worthless internet opinion

Overall Firefall is a 3 at best.

jcdraider
12-23-2012, 09:24 PM
I personally will play both.

I'm in the firefall beta and got in for free permanently. Noticed a lot of people claiming that they are just doing a money grab, but me and my friends all have the permanent key without paying a dime. I did invest $20 dollars in their game because I see great things coming from Red5. I've not made it into the beta for Defiance. Looks good, but hard to give a full oppinion on an game I have yet to try. I have high hopes of many hours wasted on both games.

The list of content that they are planning on releasing plus the ambitious claim that the game will have a 1/10 scale map(s) of the earth to explore excites me. Comments have also been made that they have 5 years worth of story to be released episodically in the game done by famous author Orson Scott Card. Hopefully all this and the numerous other stuff they're making for the game will be great. Won't know until they implement it in the game. So it will be an interesting year for those interested in Firefall.

I love the art style and character customization I've seen so far for defiance. I agree that firefall severely lacks in character customization. What little of the play style I've seen looks fast paced enough to keep more than entertained. Lets hope it all comes together well with the tv story and game ties. Should be worth it, but won't know until I experience it.

Bartlomiej
12-24-2012, 07:06 AM
firefall have better engine
Defiance is WoW 30% better engine. *g*

Darky
12-24-2012, 07:52 AM
for us consoles users Defiance is the way to go and as you know Shooters sells best on consoles so Defiance has a huge advantage over Firefall.

Paladin
12-26-2012, 08:43 PM
for us consoles users Defiance is the way to go and as you know Shooters sells best on consoles so Defiance has a huge advantage over Firefall.

Agree with this.

Obsidian
12-26-2012, 11:50 PM
To be honest I've been in Firefall beta for over a year and 3 months. the game has gotten no where closer to the original pax video, it's dropped the ball on class rebuilds twice and are now after more then a year and a half finally understanding how to "make" a shooter....

The pvp is not encouraged, the "open world pvp" has been promised for over 2 years and they have as of yet to even start working on the basics for it.

Firefall might do well. But anyone with a brain will see the polish in defiance trumps everything firefall has been "working" on. Simply put firefall could have been out 6 months ago if they just did their job from the start. but all the back and forth bs and the fact that crafting is terrible to new players joining the beta and that reaction to class changes have been dismal at best. makes me look at the 100+ skills in defiance as a much better candidate.

Firefall will not do that well they have already failed to hype the esports that they built the game around as a concept 2 years ago. They don't even have anything major going on with backers for the tournaments. not to mention that they have again revamped pvp from the ground up for a third time in 2 years. If this latest revamp does not pan out the game will not even be out for another year+.

Write off firefall, it won't be worth your time. sorry lots of reiteration.

Obsidian
12-26-2012, 11:54 PM
Hi Siantlark,

Sorry if I had a bad choice of words in some cases and if I was not clear enough on the point I was trying to make.

I know that now there is more to do besides thumping, but, when Red5 put the game on the beta they said early this year (one of the first convetion of the year) that Thumping and crafting will be the maine focus of there PvE, and, in a way it still is, you just have to go to the foundry of the mecanic.
Regarding what Rob Hill said, its my fault, i was talking in Defiance about the upgrade sisteme, should have not called hit crafting, sorry, but to me in a sense it is.

On the open PvP, my point was unclear. I whanted to say that open world PvP in Firefall was not needed and my my view as almost no sense. But if they need to put it in, ok.

In the events system, what i ment ist that, if not for games like GW2 and RIFT, that focused a lot of resources in those, Firefall mabe would still have just Thumping in it.



-Emphasis on team based gameplay-
Here, what i just ment is that in Firefall you dont need to group up to do it. You are just there and you participate, you do dmg or heal or suport... there is no real reson for you to group up. No co-op maps. No real need of a guild or a clan. Its more casual frendly.


In last my pro list was not to be what Defiance add and Firefall not. Just What for me is appealing in the game.
But if you whant to go that way.

- The arte style, ye its a matter of opinion.
- Yes the game as only 2 playable races, not 7. 7 is the total of alien races of the game/tv show. If you look at there live 24hour stream they said it, and in others interviews to.
- in depth character costomisation, Trion said that they will have a character criation with a lot of option, they mentioned tatoo and haircuts skin ton... and in the videos they have you can see where its going to be. In Firefall you can not call there character criation a good one.
- in depth armor (appearance) costomisation, jsut look at Defiance videos and you will tons of different "players". In Firefall after 7 months my Bioframme looks the same and i have made several spare changes and improvement. Whats the point in be a TPS if you have a FPS look a like game. If i play a TPS i whant to feel the evolution on the armor, look at what you can do in Mass Effect with Shepard's armor and it makes it look cool.


I hope I have been more clear this time.



Go Defiance go.

Oh yeah thanks for reminding me. Firefall has zero character customization. Everyone has the same body suits for each class, and there is NO plans on ANY character customization for at least a YEAR. You can buy hats right now that is all.

I can't see how any team shooter can open with zero customization there is 6 titles that are coming out and have entered open beta in the last few months that have thousands of combinations and with defiance and apb there are millions of looks for your character. So yeah. firefall will be firefallen by this time next year, They listen to their diehard fanboys that if you watch have actually stopped posting after about 6 months. they do not listen to the core of players that have been around since their pax debut over 2 years ago. Fail.

lycrates
12-28-2012, 08:16 AM
Overall, I get the impression that Firefall is somewhat more PvP oriented while Defiance is a little more PvE oriented.

reefler
03-23-2013, 07:50 PM
And i was forgeting we still dont know if Defiance will be pay to play or not.

It could be argued that any micro transaction store in a game could make it pay to win but that all depends on how you define pay to win. Yes there will be boosts and such but my definition of pay to win is when you get actual items from a store that you cannot get in game. So far I have not seen this in the Beta 3 for defiance so I am quite confident in saying Defiance is not pay to win. I am getting a little tired of cell shaded graphics as well so once Defiance launches I don't think I'll be playing Firefall at all.

Cheers

Cenie
03-23-2013, 08:06 PM
Both are great games in their own right.

Rastaban
03-23-2013, 10:57 PM
I've been in the firefall beta for quite some time. One change I've really come to despise is the battleframe system. They force you to start over with equipment and weapons each time you upgrade battleframes, you can't use them with the new one, and make you essentially start over from the beginning of the game and unlock everything again. All you get is the tiniest boost to stats for your trouble.

And this game is just like it. You can blow through levels like a saiyan but your rifle is never going to get any more damage on it. It's because all these third person shooters are PvP E-sports games masquerading as MMOs. The easiest way to balance PVP is to make sure no one gets more powerful than anyone else. So expect there to be a LOT more PvP in Defiance, because it's the only reason the devs would sacrifice player progression.

Firefall, for all its problems and stagnation learned to compartmentalize these elements well. The PvE is just a resource hunt so you can build equipment for your frame so you can fight more effectively in PvP. But since there's no crafting in Defiance...

Landshark
03-30-2013, 09:38 PM
I've been in the firefall beta for quite some time. One change I've really come to despise is the battleframe system. They force you to start over with equipment and weapons each time you upgrade battleframes, you can't use them with the new one, and make you essentially start over from the beginning of the game and unlock everything again. All you get is the tiniest boost to stats for your trouble.

And this game is just like it. You can blow through levels like a saiyan but your rifle is never going to get any more damage on it. It's because all these third person shooters are PvP E-sports games masquerading as MMOs. The easiest way to balance PVP is to make sure no one gets more powerful than anyone else. So expect there to be a LOT more PvP in Defiance, because it's the only reason the devs would sacrifice player progression.

Firefall, for all its problems and stagnation learned to compartmentalize these elements well. The PvE is just a resource hunt so you can build equipment for your frame so you can fight more effectively in PvP. But since there's no crafting in Defiance...

The recent update to Firefall completely separates the PVP from the PVE character progression.

I've been in the Firefall beta for quite some time now, I really like the game a lot, it's super smooth gameplay, the developers are very awesome with their community, etc. I don't have much experience with Trion, but so far everything I've seen is positive with lots of very happy customers, so I imagine both games will do well in the long-run.

The main differences between the two that I 'felt' affected my gameplay (after playing several hours of the Defiance beta last weekend) are that:

1) Firefall is a sci-fi, almost cartoony setting, while Defiance is sci-fi and post-apocalyptic setting. This definitely changes the 'feel' of the game.

2) There isn't a whole lot to do in Firefall. When I play Firefall I don't see myself playing for more than an hour tops, but in Defiance I played several hours at a time, only stopping because my 1 month old baby woke up and needed changing. :) Something about Defiance keeps me wanting to play long stretches at a time.

Moose Of Woe
03-30-2013, 09:46 PM
Defiance is fairly polished and succeeds at capturing the audience it aims at. Namely, a little bit of everyone aside from those who flat out refuse to play really, really easy games. From sci fi fans to shooter fans, and even the unusual benefit of a tv show it draws in folks across the spectrum. Gameplay is established and is what it is - and very straight forward.

Firefall is all over the place. As previously mentioned, its been revamped numerous times trying to figure out what the heck it wants to be besides an fps/esports game. I'm talking gameplay wise, here.

Between the two, Defiance and it's not even close.

uberninjajohn
03-30-2013, 10:48 PM
I didn't enjoy firefall that much when I tried it. It didn't manage to keep my interest. I did sink a few hours into the Defiance beta though. It just seemed more fun to me.

Broked
04-07-2013, 07:55 AM
Only geanius can compare a game that is just release with another that has another year of closed beta, u can talk about the basic but only 1 said it (he complain about jetpack). u cant compare the open world pvp, event, costumization or these thing cm on -.-