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View Full Version : So did the 1.0.1.0 patch actually make progression..



Scyris
04-17-2013, 09:37 AM
So did the 1.0.1.0 patch change anything in terms of the game feeling like no matter what you do you never progress due to the mods being weak and the weapons base stats never changing?

I've recently started warframe, and its modification system blows defiance out of the water, each rank on a weapon adds 1 mod slot, and mods can take up from 1-10 slots, mods are also upgradeable, so while the base damage on the weapon does not change, the more mod slots you have the more powerful it can become. Like I got a Assault rifle with +45% rifle damage, +60% fire damage, +50% armor piercing damage, for an example, so when I fire 1 shot I actually see 3 damage numbers come up, 1 from the rifle, 1 from the fire, and 1 from the armor pierce. Your also able to freely add and remove mods at will with no cost, and keep them, so you can put your best mods into a new weapon once you rank it up enough to have the slots needed for that mod. Each weapon can have 8 diffrent mods total, adding up to whatever rank you have in that weapon. Your warframe itself ranks up, gets stronger and also has mod slots. But best of all you actually feel like your getting stronger/progressing in warframe where as defiance it feels static and like your never getting stronger.

Not trying to advertise warframe here, but warframe bascally did right what defiance did completly wrong when it comes to this style of progression.

Also before you say "Well defiance is about skill" bleh bleh, explain then how weapons that are fairly easly avoided (cluster rockets/detonators like mass cannon/detonators), and infectors got nerfed to complete uselessness in pve due to piss-poor skilled players in pvp that just don't know how to roll out of the way. Its the same with the sawed-off shotguns, IMO if someone is so poorly skills to let another player get right beside them, they deserve to be one shoted, especally in a game like Defiance where its all about guns. But alas, the poor skilled whiners whined, and now they got nerfed. Trion seems to have a lack of balancing as well, they nerf weapons due to pvp reports, but never seem to consider at all the pve ramifactions of it. Whats worse is Trion is lazy and doesn't bother making 2 versions of each weapons base stats: 1 for pve and 1 for pvp, the fact pistols now have larger clip sizes when in pvp proves they can do this, SO why not buff up the nerfed weapons in pve back to their old base values (or better in the case of infectors since they were fairly bad regardless), while having the new pvp base numbers take effect only when in pvp mode? This way you make the much larger pve players happy, while also catering to the no-skill whiney *****es in pvp.

jnt
04-17-2013, 09:40 AM
So did the 1.0.1.0 patch change anything in terms of the game feeling like no matter what you do you never progress due to the mods being weak and the weapons base stats never changing?

I've recently started warframe, and its modification system blows defiance out of the water, each rank on a weapon adds 1 mod slot, and mods can take up from 1-10 slots, mods are also upgradeable, so while the base damage on the weapon does not change, the more mod slots you have the more powerful it can become. Like I got a Assault rifle with +45% rifle damage, +60% fire damage, +50% armor piercing damage, for an example, so when I fire 1 shot I actually see 3 damage numbers come up, 1 from the rifle, 1 from the fire, and 1 from the armor pierce. Your also able to freely add and remove mods at will with no cost, and keep them, so you can put your best mods into a new weapon once you rank it up enough to have the slots needed for that mod. Each weapon can have 8 diffrent mods total, adding up to whatever rank you have in that weapon. Your warframe itself ranks up, gets stronger and also has mod slots. But best of all you actually feel like your getting stronger/progressing in warframe where as defiance it feels static and like your never getting stronger.

Not trying to advertise warframe here, but warframe bascally did right what defiance did completly wrong when it comes to this style of progression.

Also before you say "Well defiance is about skill" bleh bleh, explain then how weapons that are fairly easly avoided (cluster rockets/detonators like mass cannon/detonators), and infectors got nerfed to complete uselessness in pve due to piss-poor skilled players in pvp that just don't know how to roll out of the way. Its the same with the sawed-off shotguns, IMO if someone is so poorly skills to let another player get right beside them, they deserve to be one shoted, especally in a game like Defiance where its all about guns. But alas, the poor skilled whiners whined, and now they got nerfed. Trion seems to have a lack of balancing as well, they nerf weapons due to pvp reports, but never seem to consider at all the pve ramifactions of it. Whats worse is Trion is lazy and doesn't bother making 2 versions of each weapons base stats: 1 for pve and 1 for pvp, the fact pistols now have larger clip sizes when in pvp proves they can do this, SO why not buff up the nerfed weapons in pve back to their old base values (or better in the case of infectors since they were fairly bad regardless), while having the new pvp base numbers take effect only when in pvp mode? This way you make the much larger pve players happy, while also catering to the no-skill whiney *****es in pvp.

No it didn't add any feel of progression. If you look hard enough you can probably find a post from Trion about how the flat progression is entirely intentional.

dodmayhem
04-17-2013, 09:42 AM
It is a skill based game not a gear based game. Why can't people understand this.

Zuul
04-17-2013, 09:52 AM
Horizontal progression is great. It keeps things fairly balanced, and prevents player segregation in both PvE AND PvP.

PvE - You don't have to worry about higher 'level' players coming in and obliterating your arkfalls or events or whatever. You don't have to worry about being too low to go check out the next area or explore anywhere you'd like. Starting the game and want to join a RL friend in an Arkfall over in Sausalito? Go for it!

PvP - Pretty obvious. Trion doesn't have to worry about gating PvP based on Ego ratings. Players don't have to worry about being destroyed by other higher ego players.

With Horizontal progression everyone wins. Well, except for those that want to one shot low zone arkfalls or grief other players.

Jinque
04-17-2013, 09:57 AM
I downloaded warframe last weekend, haven't tried it yet. Does that mean I'll have a peashooter compared to everyone else with their ranks already? Doesn't sound enticing..

mutharex
04-17-2013, 10:10 AM
Horizontal and vertical progression have both their own merits, depending on who you ask. But there is already a bazillion EQ clones (starting with WoW) that do gear grinds so if once in a while someone tries something different, it's not a tragedy

Erei
04-17-2013, 10:21 AM
Horizontal and vertical progression have both their own merits, depending on who you ask. But there is already a bazillion EQ clones (starting with WoW) that do gear grinds so if once in a while someone tries something different, it's not a tragedy
They are not the first. GW1 had even less progression, as extremely quickly you reached max lvl, and access to all the gear. The rare and endgame stuff was just new skin.
In defiance, lvling add new perks and perks slot, and you see different weapons.

And yet, everyone find GW1 cool.

fishboy11
04-17-2013, 10:22 AM
It is a skill based game not a gear based game. Why can't people understand this.


really, this game takes skill? OK then if you say so.

Ichidakiller
04-17-2013, 12:10 PM
There is progression just not the drastic progression that everyone is used to.
Weapon damage base stays in the same range. The bonus begin to stack up.
Im at 1900 ego and my wolfhound has 4.9 crit multiplier, 15% ego on kill, ammo regen on kill synergy.
Combine that with the 6perks. I crit for 2k to the face on most mobs get ammo back when I kill them usually more ammo then I used to kill them.
Now compare that to a lvl say 500 wolfhound 2-3mod slots and that's it......

Seems like a clear form of progression to me. Yes its not omg I can one shot newbs in pvp so I can feel like a man progression most seem to want.

They are not going to let you get half way to the level cap and give you a tactical nuke. The weapons hit plenty hard enough if you know what your doing. Making them slightly better is your progression. Your not going to hit like a truck just cause you have an ego of 500.

The thing is gun I have dropping for me now have usually 3-6 bonuses with synergy and everything. When I hit 4000ego I can't wait to see the bonuses on those. I would luke to see a screen shot of a 3000+ ego weapon better 4000 and 5000 ego weapons. Want to see the bonuses on those bad boys.

mutharex
04-17-2013, 12:34 PM
They are not the first. GW1 had even less progression, as extremely quickly you reached max lvl, and access to all the gear. The rare and endgame stuff was just new skin.
In defiance, lvling add new perks and perks slot, and you see different weapons.

And yet, everyone find GW1 cool.

I never said it was the first, I said once in a while. And I agree with your post, but clearly the people complaining about progression aren't either familiar or fan of GW1

jnt
04-17-2013, 12:46 PM
Getting new abilities or gear in GW1 still felt better then knowing the new ar you got to replace the old maxed xp one was going to be identical and your only attack is lmb shoot.

mutharex
04-17-2013, 01:02 PM
Getting new abilities or gear in GW1 still felt better then knowing the new ar you got to replace the old maxed xp one was going to be identical and your only attack is lmb shoot.

well, it IS a TPS, a third person shooter, after all

jnt
04-17-2013, 01:04 PM
well, it IS a TPS, a third person shooter, after all

I'm not sure why it means the loot you get shouldn't matter at all but I'll go with it. YEAH genre related excuses for flat progression.

MGS4 was the last console tps I played and I sure as hell got stronger :P

mutharex
04-17-2013, 01:08 PM
I'm not sure why it means the loot you get shouldn't matter at all but I'll go with it. YEAH genre related excuses for flat progression.

MGS4 was the last console tps I played and I sure as hell got stronger :P

I was referring to "your only attack is lmb shoot"

jnt
04-17-2013, 01:10 PM
I was referring to "your only attack is lmb shoot"

Oh makes sense. Yeah. That would be a really minor complaint anyway.

Jestunhi
04-17-2013, 01:18 PM
It is a skill based game not a gear based game. Why can't people understand this.

This.

Player ability decides the outcome, not who has farmed the best loots.

This is not a mistake, nor is it a bad thing. But it's not designed for people who want huge vertical progression.

jnt
04-17-2013, 01:19 PM
This.

Player ability decides the outcome, not who has farmed the best loots.

This is not a mistake, nor is it a bad thing. But it's not designed for people who want huge vertical progression.

Then the game needs a difficulty curve.

Jestunhi
04-17-2013, 01:23 PM
Then the game needs a difficulty curve.

There already is up to a point, later mob types are tougher than earlier ones (i.e. dark matter vs. mutants).

Personally I have no issue with the next set of mobs which are added being tougher, although I'd far prefer improved AI over inflated stats.

But that's a completely different topic than vertical vs. horizontal progression.