PDA

View Full Version : What motivates a fanboi?



doggirl211
04-17-2013, 02:26 PM
I'd like to start by saying I'm not trying to start a flame war or disrespect anyone, the game, Trion or the Defiance franchise in general. I love this game and hope thousands more people pick it up when the problems get sorted out, so we can have a thriving community to enjoy for years to come. With that said, there's no way I could in good conscience, recommend anyone spend money on this product in its current state.

The purpose of my post however, is to find out how/why there is always a certain percentage of any gaming community that is steadfast (and in most cases, openly hostile and aggressive) in its defense/protection of said game, no matter the level, intensity or number of problems it actually has. Are they getting some sort of compensation for their attitudes/actions? Do they believe they will get some sort of benefit from their forum "bullying"? And don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about the general forum troll that just wants to make everyone else look bad so he can look better in his own eyes. I'm talking about the ones that are so rigid in their outlook of the game that it appears most times as though they're playing a totally different game than the rest of the community.

I'm just curious if anyone actually knows a fanboi in real life, or if one will reply to this thread and give me some insight into their mindset and reasoning. To me, it seems like their approach is actually detrimental to the game itself because denying the existence of problems is only going to make things worse in the long run. If the community as a whole isn't honest with the developers about the level of problems in, and their frustrations with the product, we can't ever expect it to be fixed. And isn't that what we all really want? For Defiance to be an experience we can immerse ourselves in for years to come and in the process, be a part of something that's never even been attempted? It really is a pretty unique opportunity for all of us. Thanks

Kommissar Kaede
04-17-2013, 02:36 PM
I as a software developer, have a heart for game developers and feel they should be defended from the anger of their fans.

Also, devil's advocate in general. It is not good to have thoughts go uncontested. There should be a dissenting opinion presented.

Daholic
04-17-2013, 02:40 PM
I as a software developer, have a heart for game developers and feel they should be defended from the anger of their fans.

Also, devil's advocate in general. It is not good to have thoughts go uncontested. There should be a dissenting opinion presented.

What would you have done different if you were the dev?

Kommissar Kaede
04-17-2013, 02:43 PM
What would you have done different if you were the dev?
Besides hope and pray for a cleaner development cycle?

I mean, software has bugs, so thats just going to happen. As far as the patching/balancing goes, I've yet to see the full ramifications of their changes (heck I was still using sawed offs last night and wasn't suffering too badly). And I fully agree with the decision to pull episodic content on the basis of allowing for "deeper content" due to a sense of urgency.

Most likely though they allowed themselves to be pressured by SyFy to be done by the 15th, they should of tried earlier on for more time it would seem, but thats just a difficult sell.

Hexi
04-17-2013, 02:44 PM
When you define what that is, we might get somewhere. It seems everyone who doesn't hate the game, the company and the developers with a passion is automatically a fanboy. Especially when they say something you can't refute, or they correct you're inaccurate whining.

Jack Johnson
04-17-2013, 02:45 PM
What would you have done different if you were the dev?

Release the game with some sort of set of challenging content. I'm surprised as hell the game didn't launch with hardmode co-op instances. That's really my biggest gripe. The resetting pursuits is kind of annoying but that'll get worked out in time. Lack of content may or may not.

Zewks
04-17-2013, 02:46 PM
I as a software developer, have a heart for game developers and feel they should be defended from the anger of their fans.

Also, devil's advocate in general. It is not good to have thoughts go uncontested. There should be a dissenting opinion presented.

You apparently arent a developer that sells your programs. If the devs cared about fans anger, they would be here defending their game, and not off counting their money.

They got paid, they dont care if a few people come to the forums to express anger. If they did care, they would be here defending their game, rather than you having to do it for them.

Cutlass Jack
04-17-2013, 02:48 PM
When you define what that is, we might get somewhere. It seems everyone who doesn't hate the game, the company and the developers with a passion is automatically a fanboy.

Exactly. Actual 'Fanbois' are rare and far inbetween. Its a word people like to toss around to discredit someone and feel superior.

There are plenty of people, who are enjoying a game, see it has some issues, but those issues dont bother them to the same level as other people. Just because someone thinks your particular issue is barely worth complaining about, it doesnt make them a Fanboi. It may just mean they'd rather the developer's attention be placed somewhere else.

And lets face it there are some posters who act like every little issue is the end of the world as we know it.

Kommissar Kaede
04-17-2013, 02:48 PM
You apparently arent a developer that sells your programs. If the devs cared about fans anger, they would be here defending their game, and not off counting their money.

They got paid, they dont care if a few people come to the forums to express anger. If they did care, they would be here defending their game, rather than you having to do it for them.
Or maybe we live in an age where a single careless comment online gets you fired, so its useless to try and talk to angry fans.

Remag Div
04-17-2013, 02:48 PM
People invest a lot of money and time into something so they will defend to justify said things.

Hexi
04-17-2013, 02:50 PM
You apparently arent a developer that sells your programs. If the devs cared about fans anger, they would be here defending their game, and not off counting their money.

They got paid, they dont care if a few people come to the forums to express anger. If they did care, they would be here defending their game, rather than you having to do it for them.

Someone will always complain no matter what you do. You could make Jesus appear and make everyone immortal and someone would STILL complain. Defending anything on the internet is a waste of energy.

The Hangman
04-17-2013, 02:50 PM
Strange, I find it more confusing why people who profess to hate a game to post on that game's forum (and continue to do so) then it is for someone who really enjoys the game to be doing so.

Zewks
04-17-2013, 02:52 PM
People invest a lot of money and time into something so they will defend to justify said things.

And for the same exact reasons, people will bash something if it isnt working right.

doggirl211
04-17-2013, 02:56 PM
When you define what that is, we might get somewhere. It seems everyone who doesn't hate the game, the company and the developers with a passion is automatically a fanboy. Especially when they say something you can't refute, or they correct you're inaccurate whining.

Sorry, I thought I did define it when I said "a certain percentage of any gaming community that is steadfast(and in most cases, actually hostile and aggressive) in its defense/protection of said game, no matter the level, intensity or number of problems it actually has".

It appears you have the "hostile and aggressive" part down....I'm not inaccurately whining about anything. As I said, I'm not trying to disrespect anyone, just trying to actually learn something.

Zewks
04-17-2013, 02:56 PM
Strange, I find it more confusing why people who profess to hate a game to post on that game's forum (and continue to do so) then it is for someone who really enjoys the game to be doing so.

People bring up the bad parts of a game because they hope it gets noticed, and fixed/improved.
Being silent about a problem never fixed anything. The forums are one of many ways to be vocal. They may not be the best, but often times they make the most noise.

Where as people defending a game... seek to what? Keep it from not being fixed? THAT is something I dont understand.

We all (hopefully) paid for the game. We all want to have fun playing it. Those bringing up its flaws hope to get the game improved, those who are fanbois seem to not care if it gets better, being satisfied with the least amount of potential that a game, from someone like Trion, is capable of putting out.

Jeff Kaos
04-17-2013, 02:56 PM
I as a software developer, have a heart for game developers and feel they should be defended from the anger of their fans.

Also, devil's advocate in general. It is not good to have thoughts go uncontested. There should be a dissenting opinion presented.
I'm the opposite, I work as Business Analyst designing information systems for small to medium businesses and I feel like game developers should be held much more accountable for releasing buggy products. If my team developed a system that didn't work as promised we could possibly get sued but at the very least our reputations would be shot to hell. Game developers don't realize how lucky they are to have such a forgiving customer base, because in my experience customers demand results and if you can't/don't deliver you don't eat.

The Hangman
04-17-2013, 03:00 PM
People bring up the bad parts of a game because they hope it gets noticed, and fixed/improved.
Being silent about a problem never fixed anything. The forums are one of many ways to be vocal. They may not be the best, but often times they make the most noise.

Where as people defending a game... seek to what? Keep it from not being fixed? THAT is something I dont understand.

We all (hopefully) paid for the game. We all want to have fun playing it. Those bringing up its flaws hope to get the game improved, those who are fanbois seem to not care if it gets better, being satisfied with the least amount of potential that a game, from someone like Trion, is capable of putting out.

A fine example of a fellow player just wanting to see parts of the game get fixed and isn't hating or trolling at all:

http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?41357-this-game-just-sucks

Without these fine people we'd never see any improvement in the game, as Trion wasn't smart enough to put in an ingame reporting system or anything like that where we could report problems found.

Hexi
04-17-2013, 03:02 PM
Sorry, I thought I did define it when I said "a certain percentage of any gaming community that is steadfast(and in most cases, actually hostile and aggressive) in its defense/protection of said game, no matter the level, intensity or number of problems it actually has".

It appears you have the "hostile and aggressive" part down....I'm not inaccurately whining about anything. As I said, I'm not trying to disrespect anyone, just trying to actually learn something.

So anyone who doesn't agree with your negative views then, got it. It's incredibly amusing to troll people who rage on a forum for a GAME as if that was the most important thing in life. I also only do it to kill time at work. It's incredibly easy as well because in most cases, the negativity is over a minor inconvenience blown completely and utterly out of proportions.

In short, for lulz.

ChipNinja
04-17-2013, 03:05 PM
With that said, there's no way I could in good conscience, recommend anyone spend money on this product in its current state.

The purpose of my post however, is to find out how/why there is always a certain percentage of any gaming community that is steadfast (and in most cases, openly hostile and aggressive) in its defense/protection of said game, no matter the level, intensity or number of problems it actually has.

It all comes down to a difference of opinion. Some people believe as you do, and some don't. I think that what they've done already justifies the price tag. Sure, there are problems. Every game has them. But truthfully, I've spent more time in Defiance doing various things than I have in any other shooter for well... years really.


I work as Business Analyst designing information systems for small to medium businesses and I feel like game developers should be held much more accountable for releasing buggy products.

I agree with sentiments like this to a degree. What people also need to realize is that as a developer, many times it's impossible to locate all the bugs right away. Part of that problem might be because enough testing isn't done on the developers side, but what many people overlook is the beta process.

Inviting actual players into beta testing is to help test load, and hopefully find bugs. What we're seeing more and more though are people applying to "test" a game by treating it as a demo. They don't test, and they don't submit bug reports. These people are also the first to complain that said bug has been in the game since beta.

The Hangman
04-17-2013, 03:06 PM
People bring up the bad parts of a game because they hope it gets noticed, and fixed/improved.
Being silent about a problem never fixed anything. The forums are one of many ways to be vocal. They may not be the best, but often times they make the most noise.

Amazingly, another awesome example of a player wanting nothing more then to improve the game popped up while I typing the last reply!

"Never before have I had to take time away from playing a game to write a post this big about how much it is doing my head in.

WE ARE PAYING YOUR WAGES, GET A GRIP!

Today I watched a live stream of a Trion employee playing the game and having the time of his life, makes my blood boil knowing i've paid for this.

A perfect example of how a dev team should be is Path of Exile.
18 ****ING people update this game with meaningful content, frequently.

18 people outdo you in every way possbile, and the hilarious thing is, Path of Exile is free..

Pull your finger out Trion...Stop updating the game with outfits and purchasable crap and start changing this game for the better.

Are you no better than the other money grabbing, idiotic, ignorant developers out there?

We shall see... "

I can see how this will help Trion address the issue presented by the poster.

doggirl211
04-17-2013, 03:07 PM
[QUOTE=Hexi;371947]So anyone who doesn't agree with your negative views then, got it. It's incredibly amusing to troll people who rage on a forum for a GAME as if that was the most important thing in life. I also only do it to kill time at work. It's incredibly easy as well because in most cases, the negativity is over a minor inconvenience blown completely and utterly out of proportions.

In short, for lulz.[/QQUOT

I see. Aren't you cute. People like you have no concern for the community of a game or its life cycle. You'll just move on to the next big title and do the same things over again. Your parents must be so proud of you!

ironhands
04-17-2013, 03:11 PM
passion, without feeling the need to hide it

Shandri
04-17-2013, 03:11 PM
"What motivates a fanboi?"

The countless virtual tears of those individuals out there who don't know how to criticize something constructively.


I hear they find it delicious and are drawn to it like sharks drawn to blood. When they hear someone e-crying "This sucks!" and whatnot, they are immediately drawn to it, and the feeding frenzy begins.

Anim
04-17-2013, 03:11 PM
Hexi, you're specifically bringing up the worst and most pointless people whining and raging, lots of others out there have perfect valid and reasoned concerns whilst being quite noticable in the community ... sup.

Zewks
04-17-2013, 03:12 PM
Some fans stalk the person they are the fan of
Some critics smash in the windshield of the director that made the movie bad.

There are extremes on both sides, it doesnt mean all critics do it wrong, or all fans support the game wrong.
There are correct ways to bring up flaws in something, just as there is a correct way to be supportive or a fan of something.

mutharex
04-17-2013, 03:16 PM
And for the same exact reasons, people will bash something if it isnt working right.

Yes, because bashing things always brought positive results and community
Anyway how is this obvious flame bait not been locked yet?

mutharex
04-17-2013, 03:19 PM
[QUOTE=Hexi;371947]So anyone who doesn't agree with your negative views then, got it. It's incredibly amusing to troll people who rage on a forum for a GAME as if that was the most important thing in life. I also only do it to kill time at work. It's incredibly easy as well because in most cases, the negativity is over a minor inconvenience blown completely and utterly out of proportions.

In short, for lulz.[/QQUOT

I see. Aren't you cute. People like you have no concern for the community of a game or its life cycle. You'll just move on to the next big title and do the same things over again. Your parents must be so proud of you!

As opposed to people who think that screaming rage on an a game forum will, dunno, make the game fix itself faster or,oh wait I know, the devs are withholding the patches and when they see people angry on the forum they will finally cave in and release the REAL game.

Gotcha

doggirl211
04-17-2013, 03:20 PM
[QUOTE=ChipNinja;371984]It all comes down to a difference of opinion. Some people believe as you do, and some don't. I think that what they've done already justifies the price tag. Sure, there are problems. Every game has them. But truthfully, I've spent more time in Defiance doing various things than I have in any other shooter for well... years really.
[QUOTE]

I agree with you, also to a certain degree... Perhaps people have a difference of opinion about the level of problems with the game, because not everyone experiences the same problems/bugs or to the same degree. What maybe working flawlessly for you, may not be working at all for me. Does that mean I shouldn't report my problems? Or tell other people to watch out for a particularly troubling bug I've encountered? Not any more than it means you shouldn't reply saying you haven't experienced it. All the info helps the devs sort out the problems. Its the infighting between the community that's the problem, and that's what Im attempting to get some insight into.

Jestunhi
04-17-2013, 03:21 PM
What motivates someone to see a glass as half full instead of half empty?

What motivates someone to see the potential instead of the current?


What motivates people to allow a dev team more than a few days before judging an MMO designed to run for years with regular content updates? Well in this case it's obvious, common sense.

doggirl211
04-17-2013, 03:22 PM
[QUOTE=doggirl211;372007]

As opposed to people who think that screaming rage on an a game forum will, dunno, make the game fix itself faster or,oh wait I know, the devs are withholding the patches and when they see people angry on the forum they will finally cave in and release the REAL game.

Gotcha

I wasn't screaming. You added the bold type. Why is there so much negativity? That's what I'm trying to understand.

Cutlass Jack
04-17-2013, 03:23 PM
I agree with you, also to a certain degree... Perhaps people have a difference of opinion about the level of problems with the game, because not everyone experiences the same problems/bugs or to the same degree. What maybe working flawlessly for you, may not be working at all for me. Does that mean I shouldn't report my problems? Or tell other people to watch out for a particularly troubling bug I've encountered? Not any more than it means you shouldn't reply saying you haven't experienced it. All the info helps the devs sort out the problems. Its the infighting between the community that's the problem, and that's what Im attempting to get some insight into.

There's a huge difference between "This Game Sux!" rant posts and people posting constructive feedback about specific issues they suffer from in the game. The former almost always lures people in to post nonconstructive replies, the latter usually does not.

ironhands
04-17-2013, 03:23 PM
"What motivates a fanboi?"

The countless virtual tears of those individuals out there who don't know how to criticize something constructively.


I hear they find it delicious and are drawn to it like sharks drawn to blood. When they hear someone e-crying "This sucks!" and whatnot, they are immediately drawn to it, and the feeding frenzy begins.

someone crying "This sucks!" isn't exactly being constructive either, they kinda balance it out :P

mutharex
04-17-2013, 03:24 PM
[QUOTE=mutharex;372146]

I wasn't screaming. You added the bold type. Why is there so much negativity? That's what I'm trying to understand.

What negativity? The only negativity I see is from people screaming their anger because this is their first MMO and they didn't know you never buy a MMO at launch if your life depends on being able to play it whenever you like. But you live on and learn, that's the beauty of human destiny

Hexi
04-17-2013, 03:24 PM
I see. Aren't you cute. People like you have no concern for the community of a game or its life cycle. You'll just move on to the next big title and do the same things over again. Your parents must be so proud of you!

I post constrictive thoughts when I feel a thread has merit. Most however are completely asinine and full of assumptions, like your post for example. I don't title hop, I play this game and SWTOR and will do so probably until WoD comes around in a few years as there is nothing even remotely interesting in the horizon.

Most whines are about stuff and more importantly, getting it. Sorry that I don't like when game hands out everything for simply participating. People are running around in multiple oranges already and when trion realized that making keys so easily attainable was a terrible idea, the forums exploded with crying.

Yeah, the DDE outfit looks badass instead of an dumb orange outfit, people cry.

Sawed-off Shotguns get SLIGHTLY nerfed (you still get oneshotted in PvP) and it's GAMEBREAKING!!111

Some challenges are actually... shockingly, challenging and they must be immediately nerfed if you don't score gold on your first try!

These are the kinds of threads I troll, hard, because the complaints are ridiculous.

doggirl211
04-17-2013, 03:25 PM
Wow, people have certainly misunderstood my intention with this thread, at the very least. Kinda proves my point though. You can't even unintentionally "hint" at anything negative about the game before people come out in droves to start bashing on you. Way to go guys.

mutharex
04-17-2013, 03:25 PM
There's a huge difference between "This Game Sux!" rant posts and people posting constructive feedback about specific issues they suffer from in the game. The former almost always lures people in to post nonconstructive replies, the latter usually does not.

Guys, haven't we realized yet what the real purpose of this thread is? Isn't the careful wording and mellifluous passiveness really a dead give away? ;)

Shastra
04-17-2013, 03:26 PM
Wow, people have certainly misunderstood my intention with this thread, at the very least. Kinda proves my point though. You can't even unintentionally "hint" at anything negative about the game before people come out in droves to start bashing on you. Way to go guys.

So you answered your question as to what motivates the fanboys.

I am fan of the game and trust me even i hate over zealous fanboys.

Cutlass Jack
04-17-2013, 03:29 PM
Wow, people have certainly misunderstood my intention with this thread, at the very least. Kinda proves my point though. You can't even unintentionally "hint" at anything negative about the game before people come out in droves to start bashing on you. Way to go guys.

And you don't think it has anything to do with you putting Fanboi in the title?

mutharex
04-17-2013, 03:30 PM
Report, move on. bye

doggirl211
04-17-2013, 03:30 PM
So you answered your question as to what motivates the fanboys.

I am fan of the game and trust me even i hate over zealous fanboys.

Yeah, I guess I did! If it wasn't apparent (and apparently, it wasn't!), I'm a fan of the game too.

Shastra
04-17-2013, 03:31 PM
And you don't think it has anything to do with you putting Fanboi in the title?

How can he discuss the motivation of fanboys without mentioning the name. :)

doggirl211
04-17-2013, 03:34 PM
And you don't think it has anything to do with you putting Fanboi in the title?

I thought that was an accepted term for that type of person. Certainly, many people use it all the time on this and every other online forum. I was careful to say a few times that I wasn't trying to disrespect anyone,I was simply trying to understand the situation. Which, by the way, is becoming clearer to me with every reply.

Shastra
04-17-2013, 03:38 PM
I thought that was an accepted term for that type of person. Certainly, many people use it all the time on this and every other online forum. I was careful to say a few times that I wasn't trying to disrespect anyone,I was simply trying to understand the situation. Which, by the way, is becoming clearer to me with every reply.

Only people who are getting offended by this term are those who follow this pattern.

I am big fan of the game but i don't mind the term 'fanboy' because i don't fell in that category. Although just the thought of standing next to one makes me feel like having a long shower.

fang1192
04-17-2013, 03:39 PM
Surprisingly, this thread is a lot better than I expected. I'll try to calmly and logically explain my views.

First, Fanboy, White-knight and i am pretty sure there are other terms are all derogatory meant to discredit the person you are arguing against without addressing their argument (Ad hominem). Terms like these just escalate the thread into a flame war.

Next, people have different expectations. This is an MMOTPS. To me, this was a niche, experimental game on consoles. As such, I feel Trion is breaking new ground and i afford them a lot of leeway with their mistakes and screw ups. This, along with their regular communication, and they do regularly communicate, is enough to keep me satisfied. Others do not feel this way.

Third, Trion has a certain vision for the game. However, in relation to my point above, some people expected it to be a certain other way. They want Trion to change the game to suit them and meet their expectations. A common argument i see is that "X did it this way why dont you?" My common rebuttal is that if they want X feature, they should have stayed with X - dont criticize a game because it doesnt do something the exact way you want it to. Then you get into the Catch-22 of "This is similar to X, its an X-clone, and if i wanted X, i will play X, why dont you do something different?"

Finally, there are acceptable and unacceptable ways of criticizing the game and its developers. Screaming that you are leaving because there are glitches all over the place without specifying the glitches or sending in a bug report is not acceptable. I have seen statements that are self-contradictory, intentionally misrepresent something, preemptively insult the people who would try to refute your side or are just plain unhelpful.

Thorne25
04-17-2013, 03:44 PM
Hi everyone,

We feel that this thread has degenerated into a non-constructive discussion, so we've closed it. Please remember to keep your comments respectful and constructive at all times on our forums, even when you disagree with others.

If anyone has questions or concerns about this thread closure, please feel free to contact us at community@defiance.com.

Thank you!