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View Full Version : Best Original PVE Build - By Xeritan of Clan Deiphysity



Deiphysity
04-20-2013, 03:11 PM
Top damage in every coop instance. Top kills in every coop instance.

Weapon Of Choice: Mass Cannon
Fires a single missile that can be manually detonated in the air to release 4 cluster bombs which deal approximately 1500 damage each WITHOUT overcharge being active. 1500x4 AOE damage. 1 round in the clip.

Ego Power:
Overcharge. +30% damage and instant weapon reload upon use

Perks:
Time Out: +9% Ego Power Duration upon Full Reload
Explosive Onslaught: +9% Ego Power Duration on Explosive Kill
Killing Machine: +6 Second Overcharge Duration
Overload: +30% Reload Speed while Overcharge is active
Pumped Up: -15% Cooldown of Ego Power upon Full Reload
Intimidate: +75% damage to enemies who are flinching

Total Synergy:

Fire a missile, hit reload to make it explode into a cluster, boosting your ego power duration by 9%. The resulting blast will usually get a kill, giving another +9% duration to the ego power. +18% per shot, or +27% per 2 shots if it takes 2 shots to kill the enemy. (18% for 2 reloads and another 9% for the kill). The initial explosion of the missile that releases the clusters makes enemies flinch, each other bomb from the cluster get +75% damage from intimidate on top of the current +30% from overcharge. Not to mention you're reloading at +30% speed. After the fight, just fire off a few missiles and reload to trigger Pumped Up, which will cool down your ego power very quickly.

I have not been able to come up with a more synergistic build than this, other than simply stacking defensive perks. (Fortitude +225 hp, Thick Skinned -50% damage when shield breaks, effectively making fortitude give +450 hp rather than 225 since you take half dmg)

Build by Xeritan of Clan Deiphysity

Thanks for viewing! See you in the game!
Deiphysity is recruiting, by the way!

Deiphysity
04-20-2013, 03:26 PM
I've been using this build since Day Two. Just wanted to lay claim to the idea on the forum for some e-peen. If anyone has any criticism, feel free to join in. Or if you like the build, feel free to say so.

Insider
04-20-2013, 03:39 PM
this is neither original nor the best.

Deiphysity
04-20-2013, 03:40 PM
Explain what will give you more damage and ease of kills in pve? If you'd like to test it out, we can run a coop mission. I'll top your damage and triple your kills.

Deiphysity
04-20-2013, 03:42 PM
1500 damage, times 4, plus 30%, plus 75%, AOE so it can deal that damage multiple times over, AND firing them off at 1 cluster explosion every 1.5 seconds. so a bare minimum of 12000 damage every 3 seconds, not counting modifiers or multiple targets hit from the AOE.

SYN BLACK XS
04-20-2013, 03:43 PM
May have to take a closer look at the next mass cannon i pick up

Deiphysity
04-20-2013, 03:43 PM
15600 damage every 3 seconds if you count the +30% from overcharge. And thats AOE damage.

Sanguinesun
04-20-2013, 03:45 PM
There's another explosive based weapon that has triple the base damage output in relatively the same time amount.

Deiphysity
04-20-2013, 03:49 PM
You won't get the same amount of damage. It has to do with the way the cluster bombs work with a mass cannon. It SAYS 351x4. But the damage numbers are 1500x4. I've been using it for a long time, and have tested various other explosives. When they get up close and person I switch to a ground pounder. But overall, you have to use a mass cannon to reap the benefits of that build, because theres only 1 round in the clip, and the explosion radius is huge without damage falloff for them being on the edge of the radius, so you get tons of kills to keep your overcharge active 100% of the fight.

Deiphysity
04-20-2013, 03:51 PM
Just test out a mass cannon, then test out any other launcher. If you aim properly, you'll get more damage from the mass cannon than any other launcher, aside from a ground pounder, but a ground pounder requires 3 shots to be fired before detonating the clusters to maximize its potential. It won't help you keep your ego power active for the whole fight from the Time Out perk.

Deiphysity
04-20-2013, 03:54 PM
Feel free to add me in-game if you would like see a demonstration. Xeritan is the name. We can run a coop mission.

Denim Samurai
04-20-2013, 03:59 PM
it's too bad you can't get xp for mass cannons or rockets from them. Do all the damage you want but you aren't going to get anything for it.

Deiphysity
04-20-2013, 04:20 PM
You as a player get exp, but no exp for the weapon skill. Its a bug. I've submitted a request on it several times. Hopefully they're actually working on it. Getting all the kills in a PVE match has its benefits, though. I usually have 3x more kills than the #2 player in each coop match. And i'm usually at least 20,000 damage ahead of the second best. Sometimes 10,000, sometimes 30,000 more if my team isn't playing well. Also depends on how well I play. But the triple kills part... thats fairly consistent. The mass cannon takes some time to get used to. Little things like quickly being able to judge when to fire to the side of an enemy to make 2 of the bombs hit a perched target that would otherwise be missed if you detonate the cluster right above him, or when to simply detonate right above the target to hit with all 4 bombs plus the initial explosion. Sometimes, at arkfalls, I fire straight up into the air and let it cruise a bit, then detonate after a second or two. Do that a few times and all of the archers and little **** hellbugs are dead. Lob one or two over the tougher ones and they're gone, as well. Only takes like 3 shots to kill an elite warrior. A perfectly aimed shot will kill a standard warrior in 1 blast, but thats difficult to do. 99% of the time it takes 2 shots. Doesnt matter how their body is positioned. You always do full damage to them, just hard to hit them with all 4 bombs.

Hycinthus
04-20-2013, 04:48 PM
Just test out a mass cannon, then test out any other launcher. If you aim properly, you'll get more damage from the mass cannon than any other launcher, aside from a ground pounder, but a ground pounder requires 3 shots to be fired before detonating the clusters to maximize its potential. It won't help you keep your ego power active for the whole fight from the Time Out perk.

Where can I get a mass cannon? Is it in any store, or only from drops/quests?

NoDark
04-20-2013, 04:53 PM
thanks for sharing this build idea, i had pretty much given up on rocket launchers. Will give this a shot when I get a second character on the go. :cool:

Dwane
04-20-2013, 05:04 PM
... Getting all the kills in a PVE match has its benefits, though. I usually have 3x more kills than the #2 player in each coop match. And i'm usually at least 20,000 damage ahead of the second best. Sometimes 10,000, sometimes 30,000 more if my team isn't playing well. Also depends on how well I play...

http://imageshack.us/a/img221/954/defiance201304201537214.png - thats pretty much my double LMG build with stowed weapon reload perk (no need for reloads), while using green LMGs from vendors without any mods. Now tell me more about your best PvE build...

Deiphysity
04-20-2013, 05:42 PM
http://imageshack.us/a/img221/954/defiance201304201537214.png - thats pretty much my double LMG build with stowed weapon reload perk (no need for reloads), while using green LMGs from vendors without any mods. Now tell me more about your best PvE build...

I've had a couple of matches like that. It depends on what the other people in the group are doing. I guarantee he wouldnt have that score in a PVE match with someone using my build, though. But anywho.. what you're saying is.. this LMG perk synergy just negates the need to reload. It takes between half a second to a second to swap weapons and fire, but it takes about 1 to 3 seconds to reload depending on the weapon + perk combinations. I suppose that's a decent idea, you save a few seconds here and there. But it doesn't seem THAT much better than how LMG's would function normally without special perks. Cool idea though, I'm not tryin to bash it.

Deiphysity
04-20-2013, 05:46 PM
Where can I get a mass cannon? Is it in any store, or only from drops/quests?

"Hydra", a special mass cannon, comes with the deluxe edition of the game.
Otherwise, you'll have to get lucky and acquire one from a lock box or as a special item at a store. Or from loot, for that matter. Look for mass cannons with bonus reload speed, blast radius, or ego boost on reload/kill as modifiers.

Hycinthus
04-20-2013, 06:47 PM
"Hydra", a special mass cannon, comes with the deluxe edition of the game.
Otherwise, you'll have to get lucky and acquire one from a lock box or as a special item at a store. Or from loot, for that matter. Look for mass cannons with bonus reload speed, blast radius, or ego boost on reload/kill as modifiers.

I guess I can also try to upgrade the game to deluxe, and try it out.

Xazur
04-20-2013, 07:27 PM
Mass Cannon and Ground Pounder has the highest damage output out of all the explosive weapons. They are also resistant to the hellbugs light arms crap. I've told this to countless of people doing Arkfalls, they never seem to listen and use the Rebounder and Swarm cannons instead.

Deiphysity
04-20-2013, 07:43 PM
^ Takes a bit of familiarity to consistently get full damage out of them though.

Moose Of Woe
04-20-2013, 07:48 PM
That's certainly an effective build.

Personally, I prefer a SAW for the most part and Wolfhound secondary to crit the tar out of larger enemies.

If you can reliably land crits a 5.0 or higher Wolfhound is insane - I'd argue it's the best overall weapon in the game IF you can aim well. Considering the game does 99% of the aiming for you, it's pretty much godlike in PvE.

Unlike PvE, there is no hyper generous aim assist/auto aim in PvP. In this case it actually takes skill to use a Wolfhound -but if you can aim it's a bloomin' hand cannon.

Evesor
04-20-2013, 07:54 PM
I'm so confused i've no idea what i am reading.. my brother gave me this account to play zz

Deiphysity
04-20-2013, 08:15 PM
...yyyyyyup.

Mawl
04-20-2013, 08:25 PM
I just use an Ar and a shotgun and i always get top damage and kills even with people using detonators and launchers everwhere i just own face with an ar and keep moving

Deiphysity
04-20-2013, 08:26 PM
I just use an Ar and a shotgun and i always get top damage and kills even with people using detonators and launchers everwhere i just own face with an ar and keep moving

Most people aren't using my build, so they're doing close to half the damage that I would be. Not to mention I have great aim and judgement with the mass cannon / ground pounder. But this isn't necessarily a post about a weapon being good, its about making the most of perks + weapon combination. Each perk makes each other perk exponentially better, as with the weapon choice, so the build can come out on top.

Deiphysity
04-20-2013, 08:54 PM
*Sigh* Servers down. FTL.

Moose Of Woe
04-20-2013, 09:06 PM
Most people aren't using my build, so they're doing close to half the damage that I would be. Not to mention I have great aim and judgement with the mass cannon / ground pounder. But this isn't necessarily a post about a weapon being good, its about making the most of perks + weapon combination. Each perk makes each other perk exponentially better, as with the weapon choice, so the build can come out on top.

As far as synergy between weaponry and perks go, that's about as good as it gets. Everything in that setup compliments each other very well.

With my weapons of choice, there isn't much I have perk selection wise to help out. I just go for whatever straight out raises crit/weapon damage or extends overcharge/reduces recharge time.

WeirdManBoy
04-21-2013, 12:05 AM
Why not invest in Shock Trooper as well? 30% chance to not to have to reload, and if you're getting multikills, odds are that you'll proc it. I use it on my Det/launcher build so it might synergize here as well.

Flynn
04-21-2013, 12:29 AM
My question, as a mass cannon user since day one is...WHY ARE YOU TELLING PEOPLE THIS?!?!?

Welcome to nerf-town. Have you met our Mayor? Mayor Deiphysity.

Deiphysity
04-21-2013, 09:37 AM
Lol, sorry. I assumed people would find out about it eventually. And when they do.. I, for whatever childish reason, want to be able to say "hey, check out my forum post, i did that since the beginning".

Lol.

Albion
04-21-2013, 11:01 AM
Silly question - is the Swarm Cannon different from the Mass Cannon? I have a Swarm and it sounds like the same thing. BTW, thanks for the build, I'm going to have to respec to try it but look forward to it.

Dwane
04-21-2013, 11:06 AM
Silly question - is the Swarm Cannon different from the Mass Cannon? I have a Swarm and it sounds like the same thing. BTW, thanks for the build, I'm going to have to respec to try it but look forward to it.

Its good to lvling launcher skill, but far from best pve.

Deiphysity
04-21-2013, 11:08 AM
Silly question - is the Swarm Cannon different from the Mass Cannon? I have a Swarm and it sounds like the same thing. BTW, thanks for the build, I'm going to have to respec to try it but look forward to it.

Quick answer: The swarm cannon won't dish out as much consistent damage because of the way it functions.

The swarm cannon is unreliable. With the mass cannon, you can detonate it right above their head and be able to hit them with all 4 bombs EVERY time if you aim it properly. With the swarm cannon you kinda have to rely on a bit of chance, and the blast radius is kinda big from them.. so you're not getting full dmg.

Albion
04-21-2013, 11:10 AM
Quick answer: The swarm cannon won't dish out as much consistent damage because of the way it functions.

The swarm cannon is unreliable. With the mass cannon, you can detonate it right above their head and be able to hit them with all 4 bombs EVERY time if you aim it properly. With the swarm cannon you kinda have to rely on a bit of chance, and the blast radius is kinda big from them.. so you're not getting full dmg.

Makes sense, thanks - going to have to look for a Mass Cannon then, don't recall seeing one in a while.

Smogg
04-21-2013, 11:46 AM
i had totally built a PVE "spec" for this game called defiance...that is so totally spec dependant...but then i saw this thread about the "best pve spec" and now im totally gonna do that one...

NOT

op please put your epeen back in your pants and join reality.

Deiphysity
04-21-2013, 12:03 PM
i had totally built a PVE "spec" for this game called defiance...that is so totally spec dependant...but then i saw this thread about the "best pve spec" and now im totally gonna do that one...

NOT

op please put your epeen back in your pants and join reality.

I am genuinely regretful that you're butthurt over this non-offensive post. Oh, wait, I'm not.

Deiphysity
04-21-2013, 12:06 PM
There are really only three things to actually use brain-power for in Defiance:

Which perks to get (which requires some strategic, logistic, and mathematical know-how, but not much)
Which weapon to use to go with those perks
And finally, how to use the combination of the aforementioned in combat

My post is, from a logistics and strategic standpoint, a way to maximize the potential of all 3 of those, without wasting perk slots. Most people consider the perks to be very small, insignificant bonuses. This post reflects how significant they can actually be towards a build.

Dwane
04-21-2013, 12:12 PM
There are really only three things to actually use brain-power for in Defiance:

Which perks to get (which requires some strategic, logistic, and mathematical know-how, but not much)
Which weapon to use to go with those perks
And finally, how to use the combination of the aforementioned in combat

My post is, from a logistics and strategic standpoint, a way to maximize the potential of all 3 of those, without wasting perk slots. Most people consider the perks to be very small, insignificant bonuses. This post reflects how significant they can actually be towards a build.

Thats far from truth. U just wrote DECENT loadout. In certain situations it can does high dmg, but its overal mediocre.

Deiphysity
04-21-2013, 12:14 PM
You claim its situational.. but I havn't found a situation where it doesn't deal its full potential damage all the time. What situation would prevent it from doing so? Even vs bosses of instances it deals huge damage.

Deiphysity
04-21-2013, 12:15 PM
Name some perks that go together to have better synergy than this post.

What.. small percent damage here and there, small damage reduction here and there? whoopty do.

Deiphysity
04-21-2013, 12:18 PM
I don't think u understand the power of throwing out 1500x4 damage +30% +75%, at a ridiculous speed of about a shot every 1.5 seconds or quicker, and with good aim with it.. hitting the main target for full damage, and all surrounding targets for partial damage, thus amplifying the damage output even further since its AOE. Usually what happens is.. I'll throw out a missile, hit overcharge to instantly reload and release the cluster, then fire another, for 2 clusters fired immediately, the larger portion of the enemies are dead from that - from then on i'm just constantly blasting enemies for huge damage until everything dead. Its difficult to keep up with regular firearms, especially if your'e trying to headshot enemies and all of a sudden they just explode in a giant blast from my cannon. I get so many multi-kills its ridiculous.

Dwane
04-21-2013, 12:28 PM
You are just worst egocentric maniac i have met on this forum and iam sorry for you. Live in your false dream, im not your psychotherapist.

I just want to warn others: this is not best PvE build by any means, if u can aim, firearms are better (ARs, LMGs and even snipes).

ps : U should learn to use edit button, having 3 posts in row in 4minutes shows how important u want to be.

Deiphysity
04-21-2013, 12:31 PM
I'm not here to argue about my personality, I'm here to discuss the topic of the post. Thats one of the problems with online communities.. when one party of a debate topic can't find a reasonable argument, they resort to insulting the motives of the poster.

But anywho...

Most of my post was cold-hard-factual-numbers and methodology. The only opinion stated was that its the "best", and it was probably a mistake to say that, even though I do believe it. Factually, though, the numbers add up to it being the most synergistic build that has been posted.

What is your in-game character name? We can run a few instances and put an end to the debate once and for all. I always top kills and damage in coop instances with that build. Its very difficult for someone someone going for headshots to be able to keep up with me killing 2 or 3 enemies at a time with huge damage.


Also.. Please, list 5 perks that will actually exponentially increase your effectiveness to a degree that my build does.

And I'll continue to defend my post until a reasonable argument with cold hard facts and numbers is presented, and then I'll respectfully back down, with only mild butthurt.

Sniper rifle headshot without perk modifiers: about 3500 damage
Explosion from mass cannon without perk modifiers: about 6000 damage plus additional targets hit in the blast.

Daergar
04-21-2013, 12:47 PM
Who are you talking to, mate? I wondered if half the posts were hidden and then I realized this is your fb page?

Edit: Since it failed to penetrate; you're not replying, you're repeating yourself in new posts, period.

Anyway, I prefer a bolt action/lmg build with crit and nano-effect boosting traits for pve. Purple beams of doom are more fun than being the twit that spams clusterrockets for an entire co-op or arkfall, wrecking eyesight and speakers with abandon. ;)

And, oh, for numbers and such. I can kill regular mobs at a rate of the sniper rifle reload + x.x seconds to move the sight, starting at maximum view range while moving forward. I don't need MegaSuperRocketDamage to do this, I need one bullet. For elites, I need two.

And I too have never been anything but first in the summary screen after any co-op where I used my regular build. Hardly matters, now does it.

To each their own; and have a cup of humility and a circumcision for the e-peen issue you're suffering. Hugs.

Deiphysity
04-21-2013, 12:50 PM
Sniping is definitely fun. I use a mass cannon / fragger, OR a fragger / sniper rifle for pvp. Mass cannon is actually extremely effective in PVP. It can 1 shot people if you hit them with two of the bombs. (1500x2 damage plus modifiers). For pve though.. ground pounder + mass cannon all the way.

And as for who I'm talking to, anyone who would like to read. 2000 people have viewed the post. Very few people care to reply. Thats the way most of the threads are on this forum.

Dwane
04-21-2013, 12:53 PM
I'm not here to argue about my personality, I'm here to discuss the topic of the post. Thats one of the problems with online communities.. when one party of a debate topic can't find a reasonable argument, they resort to insulting the motives of the poster.

You are wrong, you came there, claiming your build is the bestest and you are forcing others to believe in you.



What is your in-game character name? We can run a few instances and put an end to the debate once and for all. I always top kills and damage in coop instances with that build. Its very difficult for someone someone going for headshots to be able to keep up with me killing 2 or 3 enemies at a time with huge damage.

I already were in few coop maps with explosive spammers. Its terrible experience. You (doubtfuly) always top dmg and kills cuz once u start spamming explosives, you gives hard time to others who needs to actually aim. Screen shaking, vision obscured by rendered explosions and enemies are pushed back or does any other unpredictable animation. Others in team basically suffers from your actions, its that simple and anyone who run map with heavy-explosive-user will agree.

... but u will call it excuses and i dont realy care since i write it for others, who would read and understand.

I can go 1M2-1M4 dmg in 95% maps with green unmoded snipe/AR/LMG without ****ing game experience to others.

Deiphysity
04-21-2013, 12:59 PM
You are wrong, you came there, claiming your build is the bestest and you are forcing others to believe in you.



Once again, not here to argue my motives. As I stated, that was the only opinion in the post, and, also as I stated, was probably a mistake to say, because its irrelevant to the point of the post and the idea of something being the "best" is highly subjective to playstyle.

However, it IS the most synergistic.

And i'm sure you can do some great things with a green unmoded weapon. Once again, off-topic. Not here to argue your talents at aiming.

This is about numbers. Stick to the numbers, man. Its easier to debate because they're not opinionated.

Restating my point:

The build is the most synergistic, making full use of each perk, and each perk benefiting each other perk to a higher degree than any other build, and will outdamage any other build in most cases.


Unmodified sniper rifle headshot damage: about 3500
Unmodified mass cannon pure damage: about 6000 to main target, plus 1500 per each additional target caught in each blast from each bomb.

The numbers dont lie. So don't argue with me, argue with the numbers.

HAMcutter
04-21-2013, 01:03 PM
It would seem like posters here are pissed at the OP's style rather than his empirical results. Welcome to the world of min-maxing and where 100% of hardcore endgame content players live. If spamming wands would give top DPS in wow, be sure as hell your entire raid group would be doing it.

I know it seems uncomfortable and even illogical to some who rather enjoy the experience over that last DPS screen at the end of the co-op, but please when you start to cry and pretend to not notice when the OP has asked for your in game name in order to prove his facts it makes you all seem quite childish.

Thanks OP, I will try this build for Arkfalls before it gets nerfed, as all over powered builds eventually are.

Grimwyrd
04-21-2013, 01:14 PM
There are no pursuits that require Rocket Launcher kills or skill. The rewards for topping kills or damage in arkfalls are not worth the time it takes to do arkfalls, so I'm not sure what the point of this build even is... but I'm happy you enjoy it Deiphysity!

Dwane
04-21-2013, 01:14 PM
I know it seems uncomfortable and even illogical to some who rather enjoy the experience over that last DPS screen at the end of the co-op, but please when you start to cry and pretend to not notice when the OP has asked for your in game name in order to prove his facts it makes you all seem quite childish.

Who crying? I said why im not gona run coop with him. His actions limits efectiveness of others, results wouldnt be objective. Thats also why i wrote my average dmg as of 1m2-1m4. Since he immediately didnt reacted with "i do 1m5+ regulary" i guess hes happy to touch 1m with his best build. I even posted pic with 1m7 dmg with double lmg build (best of 5 coop maps i run with that loadout and theres even my character name on it, what a suprise).

http://imageshack.us/a/img221/954/defiance201304201537214.png if u dont like paging up.

Mawl
04-21-2013, 01:16 PM
Most people aren't using my build, so they're doing close to half the damage that I would be. Not to mention I have great aim and judgement with the mass cannon / ground pounder. But this isn't necessarily a post about a weapon being good, its about making the most of perks + weapon combination. Each perk makes each other perk exponentially better, as with the weapon choice, so the build can come out on top.

thats okay since im doing close to twice their damage, my ar alone dishes out over 3k damage just holding the trigger for 2-3 seconds combine that with overcharge and im just mowing down the field

Deiphysity
04-21-2013, 01:26 PM
Who crying? I said why im not gona run coop with him. His actions limits efectiveness of others, results wouldnt be objective. Thats also why i wrote my average dmg as of 1m2-1m4. Since he immediately didnt reacted with "i do 1m5+ regulary" i guess hes happy to touch 1m with his best build. I even posted pic with 1m7 dmg with double lmg build (best of 5 coop maps i run with that loadout and theres even my character name on it, what a suprise).

http://imageshack.us/a/img221/954/defiance201304201537214.png if u dont like paging up.

Lol. First of all, I never stated how much damage in total I can deal in a coop match, because thats entirely depenendent on which match it is, and who is on my team. You can only do as much damage as enemies have health. However, in response to the image.. I think everyone has had matches like that one. Why? Several reasons:

Sometimes people AFK. Sometimes people join the match late. Sometimes people are lazy and dont attack much. So theres really no validity to the image. But in a standard match where people are actually attacking at a consistent rate, and can aim, you won't top their damage with just a standard firearms build. Why? Because your build wont be much better than theirs. Now, if you achieved this from having amazing headshot aim, thats great, but has nothing to do with outstanding synergy between perks and weapons, which is what my post is about. But even with consistent crits, this mass cannon build will still outdamage you. How many crits would you need to equal one shot at 6000 + 30% +75% plus the splash damage every 1.5 seconds? Lets say I hit one target with the full blast, and 2 targets with only half. Thats 6000 + 3000 + 3000. 12,000 damage. +30%... 15600 damage. plus 75%?

27300 damage per shot, 1.5 seconds between shots.

Thats just the potential of ONE shot. You can fire 2 shots immediately with overcharge activation since it instantly reloads ur weap, and then whiele its active (for the whole fight due to synergy) ur gaining the +30% reload speed from overload. (A lot of the damage is overkill though, because it doesn't tally the additional damage dealt into the final score of the match, just how much hp you remove from the enemy) You could even add the perk that gives +30% reload speed while standing still, too.

Also, why do you keep posting speculations as an argument? Why don't you list the perks and the numbers if you're going to try to argue with empirical evidence?

Booshy
04-21-2013, 01:34 PM
Cool thread thanks for posting

Booshy
04-21-2013, 01:39 PM
You are wrong, you came there, claiming your build is the bestest and you are forcing others to believe in you.




I already were in few coop maps with explosive spammers. Its terrible experience. You (doubtfuly) always top dmg and kills cuz once u start spamming explosives, you gives hard time to others who needs to actually aim. Screen shaking, vision obscured by rendered explosions and enemies are pushed back or does any other unpredictable animation. Others in team basically suffers from your actions, its that simple and anyone who run map with heavy-explosive-user will agree.

... but u will call it excuses and i dont realy care since i write it for others, who would read and understand.

I can go 1M2-1M4 dmg in 95% maps with green unmoded snipe/AR/LMG without ****ing game experience to others.

Are you 5 years old? The dude came and made a post about a good build. If you don't like it get off the thread. He hasn't come across as arrogant or pushy, and has clearly wrote out statistically how it works. What have you added or shown that is better or equivalent? Maybe you're just butthurt you didn't come up with it?

ExpiredLifetime
04-21-2013, 01:39 PM
Run a Big Boomer with the Deadly Cascade perk giving +30% damage for each additional enemy caught in the blast radius - profit.
You can very easily do hundreds of thousands of damage worth in a single blast at a choke point.

Deiphysity
04-21-2013, 01:42 PM
Run a Big Boomer with the Deadly Cascade perk giving +30% damage for each additional enemy caught in the blast radius - profit.
You can very easily do hundreds of thousands of damage worth in a single blast at a choke point.

Nice :-D

There are a quite a few options to expand this build when more perk slots become available. I'm just assuming that the majority of players only have 5 or 6 slots available at the moment. I may add deadly cascade in the future, although it won't help vs bosses and elites too much.

ExpiredLifetime
04-21-2013, 01:45 PM
Nice :-D

There are a quite a few options to expand this build when more perk slots become available. I'm just assuming that the majority of players only have 5 or 6 slots available at the moment. I may add deadly cascade in the future, although it won't help vs bosses and elites too much.

The Boomer has a blast radius of 6-8m from my recall, and you can easily chain 10+ things into one detonation. Depending on how the damage is figured, you're either looking at a 4x damage increase if it is done additively or nearly a 14x increase if its multiplicative.

Deiphysity
04-21-2013, 01:54 PM
The Boomer has a blast radius of 6-8m from my recall, and you can easily chain 10+ things into one detonation. Depending on how the damage is figured, you're either looking at a 4x damage increase if it is done additively or nearly a 14x increase if its multiplicative.

Thats something that definitely should be tested... if you find out come back and post it. I may actually go test it myself.

Dwane
04-21-2013, 02:03 PM
Are you 5 years old? The dude came and made a post about a good build. If you don't like it get off the thread. He hasn't come across as arrogant or pushy, and has clearly wrote out statistically how it works. What have you added or shown that is better or equivalent? Maybe you're just butthurt you didn't come up with it?

He calls this build BEST, not good. Any different loadout/weapon is considered as not even close to effectiveness of his BEST PVE build. He throw in statistical numbers, i present real game infos. Its like i come with math when i go fullauto LMG with all shots landing critzone (preferably scorpions open eye). And i even didnt mentioned ammo problems that comes with his best PvE build.

Deiphysity
04-21-2013, 02:16 PM
He calls this build BEST, not good. Any different loadout/weapon is considered as not even close to effectiveness of his BEST PVE build. He throw in statistical numbers, i present real game infos. Its like i come with math when i go fullauto LMG with all shots landing critzone (preferably scorpions open eye). And i even didnt mentioned ammo problems that comes with his best PvE build.

You havnt presented any game info. Yet my entire post was packed full of game info. You posted a screenshot of a match, with no additional information. For all we know, the other people in that match could have just joined at the end, which happens often. And as I said, we have all had matches like that. It doesnt mean anything. I'm talking about consistent, unchanging statistical data. The score at the end of a match changes from match to match. The numbers that i'm presenting DONT change from match to match.

And you still havnt posted any info on perks, raw damage numbers per shot, along with reload time and fire rate, damage on crits, damage on non crits.

I've posted ALL of this information. What have you contributed?

If you want to talk about how well you can headshot, or how you outperformed some AFKers or noobs in a coop match, please, take it to another thread. If you want to talk about perk/weapon builds and raw, un-opinionated data pertaining to those builds, then by all means.. keep posting.

ExpiredLifetime
04-21-2013, 02:24 PM
You havnt presented any game info. Yet my entire post was packed full of game info. You posted a screenshot of a match, with no additional information. For all we know, the other people in that match could have just joined at the end, which happens often. And as I said, we have all had matches like that. It doesnt mean anything. I'm talking about consistent, unchanging statistical data. The score at the end of a match changes from match to match. The numbers that i'm presenting DONT change from match to match.

And you still havnt posted any info on perks, raw damage numbers per shot, along with reload time and fire rate, damage on crits, damage on non crits.

I've posted ALL of this information. What have you contributed?

If you want to talk about how well you can headshot, or how you outperformed some AFKers or noobs in a coop match, please, take it to another thread. If you want to talk about perk/weapon builds and raw, un-opinionated data pertaining to those builds, then by all means.. keep posting.

I would call the "optimal" build to be an FRC Repeater with the +6 mag, combined with an FRC SAW and +50% mag, crit perks and prepardness.
Otherwise, running dual SAWs is really ****ing nasty with Prepardness.

I usually pop heads for 8.5k with my bolt action, and the SAW can easily churn out around 5k damage per second or more at close range. Only thing that this system doesn't work on are hellbugs, and I have a ground pounder spec for those.

Deiphysity
04-21-2013, 02:27 PM
An additional benefit to the Mass Cannon is that it doesn't require line of sight to be effective. Just fire over the obstacle and detonate when its above the target, the clusters will rain down on the enemy while you're safe from harm :P

ExpiredLifetime
04-21-2013, 02:31 PM
An additional benefit to the Mass Cannon is that it doesn't require line of sight to be effective. Just fire over the obstacle and detonate when its above the target :P
The issue I've had with any MIRV style weapon is that while they have great overall damage, it requires multiple targets or a very large hitbox to be fully effective.
That's why I love the Big Boomer and its massive blast radius; it synergizes obscenely well with perks like Deadly Cascade.

Don't get me wrong - explosives are great in smaller maps where enemies can be forced into a small enough killbox to maximize effect, but in something more like Explosions 101 they're going to come up short extremely quickly.

Deiphysity
04-21-2013, 02:35 PM
The issue I've had with any MIRV style weapon is that while they have great overall damage, it requires multiple targets or a very large hitbox to be fully effective.
That's why I love the Big Boomer and its massive blast radius; it synergizes obscenely well with perks like Deadly Cascade.

Don't get me wrong - explosives are great in smaller maps where enemies can be forced into a small enough killbox to maximize effect, but in something more like Explosions 101 they're going to come up short extremely quickly.

That's the reason for using a mass cannon over any other explosive. The full damage of all 4 clusters + the initial explosion can be, if aimed properly, focused on one individual target. Or, you can aim a bit higher in the air and make the spread a bit larger if you so wish. I take down tankers very quickly with it, as well as hellbug warriors and the larger mutants. Once you get used to it, detonating it right in their face to have a small cluster spread becomes second nature. Especially indoors, where you can make the clusters immediately blow up on objects around the target, or on the ceiling, rather than spreading at all. Killed many players in the hallway on Waterfront this way. Lol. Can also take down snipers with it, since its effective at virtually any visible range, and all you need is for 2 of the 4 bombs to hit the target, unless they stack defensive perks, then you need 3, but you can just fire off a higher shot for a broad spread to get the killing blow, OR, if they're sniping and not paying attention to incoming missile fire... just land a good shot and hit them with all 4 for the kill. Since i've been using a mass cannon since rank 140ish, and i'm now 950, and most of that is pvp and coop matches, i'm actually able to time the shots without visibility of my missile, so i can sometimes fire a missile and then run a different direction or around a corner, and still detonate it above the target. Very broad use weapon once you're familiar with the way it functions in different situations.

ExpiredLifetime
04-21-2013, 02:41 PM
That's the reason for using a mass cannon over any other explosive. The full damage of all 4 clusters + the initial explosion can be, if aimed properly, focused on one individual target. Or, you can aim a bit higher in the air and make the spread a bit larger if you so wish. I take down tankers very quickly with it, as well as hellbug warriors and the larger mutants. Once you get used to it, detonating it right in their face to have a small cluster spread becomes second nature. Especially indoors, where you can make the clusters immediately blow up on objects around the target, or on the ceiling, rather than spreading at all. Killed many players in the hallway on Waterfront this way. Lol.

I'm not saying it isn't a good weapon, but it becomes less efficient than others in a single target scenario. Due to the flight time of the rocket - combined with the reload time - you could have popped off 3-4 headshots at mid range with a bolt action, or more than that at longer range.

There's situations and places where every weapon just isn't efficient, thus making it so that there's no one best setup.

Deiphysity
04-21-2013, 02:46 PM
I'm not saying it isn't a good weapon, but it becomes less efficient than others in a single target scenario. Due to the flight time of the rocket - combined with the reload time - you could have popped off 3-4 headshots at mid range with a bolt action, or more than that at longer range.

There's situations and places where every weapon just isn't efficient, thus making it so that there's no one best setup.

I agree with there being situations for each weapon. Can't argue that.

However, at close/medium range with immediate detonation (just out of range of damaging myself), i get about 2 shots every 3 seconds. but a sniper who has godlike aim may be able to land 4 headshots in that time frame, but that would be quite difficult. At longer ranges though, yeah.. the flight time really matters when it comes to actual damage per second. But once you get used to the flight time, you can lead the shot quite efficiently. And NPCs won't adjust based on where your missile is going :P. Thats why I called it a PVE build and not PVP

I can take down a tanker faster with my mass cannon than i can with my orange fragger at point blank range getting crits, if that says anything.

Dwane
04-21-2013, 02:50 PM
You havnt presented any game info. Yet my entire post was packed full of game info. You posted a screenshot of a match, with no additional information. For all we know, the other people in that match could have just joined at the end, which happens often. And as I said, we have all had matches like that. It doesnt mean anything. I'm talking about consistent, unchanging statistical data. The score at the end of a match changes from match to match. The numbers that i'm presenting DONT change from match to match.

And you still havnt posted any info on perks, raw damage numbers per shot, along with reload time and fire rate, damage on crits, damage on non crits.

I've posted ALL of this information. What have you contributed?

If you want to talk about how well you can headshot, or how you outperformed some AFKers or noobs in a coop match, please, take it to another thread. If you want to talk about perk/weapon builds and raw, un-opinionated data pertaining to those builds, then by all means.. keep posting.

All u did was presenting flat numbers in most optional situation, which will not work in real game. U cant accept that your explosive spam decreses effectiveness of other players. 15 rockets wont last long enought for any sustain damage. Your whole build is about peaky burst dmg.
As i said, in real coop pug i can handle average 1m2-1m4 dmg with firearms, thats REAL number, not theorycrafted optional situation.

ExpiredLifetime
04-21-2013, 02:52 PM
I agree with there being situations for each weapon. Can't argue that.

However, at close/medium range with immediate detonation (just out of range of damaging myself), i get about 2 shots every 3 seconds. but a sniper who has godlike aim may be able to land 4 headshots in that time frame, but that would be quite difficult. At longer ranges though, yeah.. the flight time really matters when it comes to actual damage per second. But once you get used to the flight time, you can lead the shot quite efficiently. And NPCs won't adjust based on where your missile is going :P. Thats why I called it a PVE build and not PVP

I can take down a tanker faster with my mass cannon than i can with my orange fragger at point blank range getting crits, if that says anything.

With Tankers, I honestly kill them more slowly with a shotty than I do anything. They get burned like nothing else to a high crit rating Tachmag though when combined with the added hipfire crit damage, crouch and overcharge.

Deiphysity
04-21-2013, 02:52 PM
All u did was presenting flat numbers in most optional situation, which will not work in real game. U cant accept that your explosive spam decreses effectiveness of other players. 15 rockets wont last long enought for any sustain damage. Your whole build is about peaky burst dmg.
As i said, in real coop pug i can handle average 1m2-1m4 dmg with firearms, thats REAL number, not theorycrafted optional situation.

Dwane, just give it a rest.

I've been quite polite to you up until this point.

The numbers I presented were collected FROM IN GAME USAGE. The build working in-game is a pre-requisite to me obtaining the numbers in the first place. Just go back to third grade and let us adults continue our discussion.

And the reason I keep stating damage per shot and how fast the shots can be made rather than tallied scores in matches is because matches vary depending on who you are playing with and how you play, so they're an unreliable source.

gobi the bear
04-21-2013, 02:56 PM
I just logged in after they had that emergency server whatever last night, and realized some of my items are gone. Something I bought and a nice looking weapon I looted before the servers went down.

Dwane
04-21-2013, 03:00 PM
Dwane, just give it a rest.

I've been quite polite to you up until this point.

The numbers I presented were collected FROM IN GAME USAGE. The build working in-game is a pre-requisite to me obtaining the numbers in the first place. Just go back to third grade and let us adults continue our discussion.

So, whats your average total dmg at end of coop matches? How do u handle small ammopool? How u collected "explosion-spam impact to other firearm-using players" info? Do u have some secret video u dont want to share and u just wrote down all your numbers from it?

Deiphysity
04-21-2013, 03:09 PM
So, whats your average total dmg at end of coop matches? How do u handle small ammopool? How u collected "explosion-spam impact to other firearm-using players" info? Do u have some secret video u dont want to share and u just wrote down all your numbers from it?

Average total damage:
A: depends on the match, they each have different amounts of enemies.
B: depends on my team.
C: depends on how well i am playing at the time

How do i deal with small ammo pool?
First off, you would be surprised at what you can do with 15 missiles from a mass cannon.
Secondly, I utilize the immense number of ammo caches throughout the match and the instant ammo caches at the boss. Or I loot ammo from the enemies that I've demolished.

Does explosion spam impact other players?
I'm sure it does. But they usually don't mind when half of the enemies die in a matter of seconds, and are flinching so much they can barely attack us. Otherwise, they learn to pick off the lone targets in the distance as i'm obliterating the mass of them.

Do i have a video?
No. That would be completely unnecessary. Just fire off a mass cannon, imagine what you could do with it if you could aim it properly (since you probably can't), and see for yourself.

I'm not responding to any more of your posts, Dwane. Its pointless. I feel ridiculous for even responding this far. If you had been constructive in any way, shape, or form, I wouldn't mind the discussion. But you haven't.

Dwane
04-21-2013, 03:26 PM
Average total damage:
A: depends on the match, they each have different amounts of enemies.
B: depends on my team.
C: depends on how well i am playing at the time

Average has no dependancies, also thx for no number for comparasion.



How do i deal with small ammo pool?
First off, you would be surprised at what you can do with 15 missiles from a mass cannon.
Secondly, I utilize the immense number of ammo caches throughout the match and the instant ammo caches at the boss. Or I loot ammo from the enemies that I've demolished.

I wouldnt be suprised, i dont talk about think im not aware off, ur running dry quite often and then u need to use some other gun.



Does explosion spam impact other players?
I'm sure it does. But they usually don't mind when half of the enemies die in a matter of seconds, and are flinching so much they can barely attack us. Otherwise, they learn to pick off the lone targets in the distance as i'm obliterating the mass of them.

Very nice point of view. It just proves how egocentric u r. "half of the enemies die in a matter of seconds" "i'm obliterating the mass of them" are little exaggerated phrases u use to look awesome.



Do i have a video?
No. That would be completely unnecessary. Just fire off a mass cannon, imagine what you could do with it if you could aim it properly (since you probably can't), and see for yourself.

So "The numbers I presented were collected FROM IN GAME USAGE." means "i remembered them all"? Or u were writing them while "obliterating mass of enemies"?

Deiphysity
04-21-2013, 04:35 PM
Average has no dependancies, also thx for no number for comparasion.




I wouldnt be suprised, i dont talk about think im not aware off, ur running dry quite often and then u need to use some other gun.




Very nice point of view. It just proves how egocentric u r. "half of the enemies die in a matter of seconds" "i'm obliterating the mass of them" are little exaggerated phrases u use to look awesome.




So "The numbers I presented were collected FROM IN GAME USAGE." means "i remembered them all"? Or u were writing them while "obliterating mass of enemies"?

Sigh. Here I go again. I shouldnt even be responding.

The reason I havn't answered your question about how much total damage I deal in an instance, its because, well, you're stupid and THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY POST.

If we compare how well I do in an instance vs how well you do, we're comparing my skill vs yours, and with all the variables that having teammates brings.
^ THAT IS NOT WHAT MY POST WAS ABOUT.
MY POST IS ABOUT A PERK/WEAPON BUILD, NOT HOW WELL A PLAYER USES THE BUILD. THATS WHY YOU CAN ONLY USE RAW DATA THAT IS NOT DEPENDENT ON THE UNCONTROLLED VARIABLES.

So either get back on topic, or quit trying.

...And also because I havn't collected that data for that.
I do different instances at different times, and I don't write down the damage scores of each one. Some of them have 300 enemies to kill, some have 100, some have big tanky enemies for lots of damage to be dealt to, some dont. Sometimes my teammates are using similar builds. Sometimes my teammates have ****ty aim, so i do tons of dmg. Sometimes they have great aim, so i have to work harder for the damage output. etc etc etc


...And no, I don't run out of missiles very often. Each enemy that drops ammo basically gives me like +5 to 10 missiles. And there is an ammo cache after every single room. I dont need very many missiles to kill enemies. Did you read the damage numbers I posted?


Its really frustrating to have to explain all of this to you as if you're a child.

Dwane
04-21-2013, 04:54 PM
U said u wont respond to me, yet u do? Calling my posts off topic cuz i try to point out real-game flaws in your "best pve build"? Many things looks great on paper. You just dont want to accept any flaws in your Big Machine. But ppl who will try this will mostly find out.

Deiphysity
04-21-2013, 05:13 PM
U said u wont respond to me, yet u do? Calling my posts off topic cuz i try to point out real-game flaws in your "best pve build"? Many things looks great on paper. You just dont want to accept any flaws in your Big Machine. But ppl who will try this will mostly find out.

Umm, what imaginary flaw did you attempt to point out that I didnt respond to?

And I've been using the build in-game since day 2. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing and making yourself look kindof stupid.

Like I said, if you want me to show it to you, just message me. The name is Xeritan.

No more arguing.

Theres plenty of ammo, it deals tons of damage, just read my post to see the damage or msg me in game for a demonstration. Until then, you have nothing left to argue. Stop trying to troll. You're not very good at it.

greatdividers
04-21-2013, 06:00 PM
You won't get the same amount of damage. It has to do with the way the cluster bombs work with a mass cannon. It SAYS 351x4. But the damage numbers are 1500x4. I've been using it for a long time, and have tested various other explosives. When they get up close and person I switch to a ground pounder. But overall, you have to use a mass cannon to reap the benefits of that build, because theres only 1 round in the clip, and the explosion radius is huge without damage falloff for them being on the edge of the radius, so you get tons of kills to keep your overcharge active 100% of the fight.

so it's bugged...

Deiphysity
04-21-2013, 06:15 PM
so it's bugged...



I'm honestly not sure which is incorrect - the actual damage output, or the stats listed on the item. 351x4 damage sounds about right if thats the damage per cluster bomb, and theres 4 bombs... so 351x4x4. But, then again, I don't really know how explosive damage is calculated, I'm not even sure if there is a default damage bonus vs enemies who are flinching, without having the intimidate perk, i DO, however, know that they havnt mentioned anything about it when i was discussing the mass cannon's lack of weapon skill gain in a support request.

It could go either way. I mean, look at weapon synergies...

Theres the synergy that works when you have two of the same synergy type weapon equipped, then theres the synergies that work when you put that same synergy type in the weapon.

If a weapon just has [2] Synergy Type, but no [1], that means you have to have TWO weapons with that synergy equipped to get the bonus, not mod it with a synergy mod.

However, if a weapon says [1] [2] [3] etc, then you have to put mods in the weapon of that same synergy type.

Yet, it doesn't explain this in the item descriptions.

So.. I dunno. They definately shoudl be more thorough though.

My ground pounders say 0x3 damage in the weapon description, yet they deal closer to 1500 per bomb as well.

Smogg
04-21-2013, 07:49 PM
When trion hot fixes this spec,im gonna run around with just grenades and wait for this uber theorycrafter to build a new best spec for defiance because putting 2 30% bonuses together is so hard you have to be a math wizard.Thank god for the op and his best specs...its all just so technical.

Daergar
04-21-2013, 09:04 PM
When trion hot fixes this spec,im gonna run around with just grenades and wait for this uber theorycrafter to build a new best spec for defiance because putting 2 30% bonuses together is so hard you have to be a math wizard.Thank god for the op and his best specs...its all just so technical.

Indeed. It's like Prepardness; "wow, if I have a large number of rounds in a weapon's clip, the 9% will make it reload more lead per second... two LMGs!". Or "let's use weapons with a tiny number of rounds and Pumped Up, that means it will trigger more often!".

Theory crafting, math and empirical data and testing are one thing. Using the blatantly obvious perks or build coupled with a weapon with obviously bugged (or unbalanced might be truer) statistics (such as the Mass Cannon) is... well, not that great of a feat to be honest. But again, to each their own. ;)

Zuul
04-21-2013, 09:25 PM
Just wanted to pop in to say that you made a couple mistakes in your title. This build isn't the "best", nor is it original! It's funny to see people "lay claim" to something that tons of others have done already. Running to a forum to post about it first doesn't make it yours!

Aside from those mistakes you made, the build looks fun (I don't play it but know a few people who do), and it's cool that you took time out to post it to share with others!

SonicBoom
04-21-2013, 09:39 PM
Just wanted to pop in to say that you made a couple mistakes in your title. This build isn't the "best", nor is it original! It's funny to see people "lay claim" to something that tons of others have done already. Running to a forum to post about it first doesn't make it yours!!
Some people love to brag about stuff and "lay claim" to builds. Others have reached puberty. :)

Deiphysity
04-21-2013, 10:24 PM
Some people love to brag about stuff and "lay claim" to builds. Others have reached puberty. :)

Says the guy playing a video game. But hey, might as well take pride in what you do, right?

Drev
04-21-2013, 11:30 PM
From what I've seen a decent swarm cannon will do a fair amount more dps than a mass.

Kettlewell
04-22-2013, 01:10 AM
this is neither original nor the best.

That would be an opinion with best being relative to the person.
Repeat after me, O.P.I.N.I.O.N.

Lenko
04-22-2013, 01:22 AM
Says the guy playing a video game. But hey, might as well take pride in what you do, right?

You do know the average age of Gamers, don't you?

mikegonzalez2k
04-22-2013, 01:26 AM
If you check my posts when the game first came out I posted a much better Overcharge build.

You want to maximize the damage done while OC is on, and minimize the time in between uses.
My build keeps it up a long time by multiple ways of extending the duration. It also lowers the cooldown to only 30s in between uses.

Here is what I'm currently using right now for a build...
http://defiance-central.com/ego-calculator/?link=6c-7a-8c-9c-18e-26a-27a-30a-35a-36c-40c-45a-49a-50c-54c-55c-56a-59c-&start=18


Maximum Damage:
Overload
Insult To Injury
Mad Bomber

Increase Uptime:
Risk Taker
Killing Machine
Bloodlust
Killing Spree
Explosive Onslaught

Minimum CD:
Quickcharge



Here are the benefits to my build:
Your OC CD is only 30s.
Damage extends your EGO
Shield breaks extend your EGO
Kills extend your EGO
You reload faster while in OC (Shotty Offhand)
Nano effects trigger more often
Explosive Kills decrease grenade downtime by 30%
Explosive Kills extend your EGO by 9%


I recommend an AR/Shotgun (Explosive) combo with Frag grenades.
You can AOE with a explosive shotty and grenade finish to get back EGO.
Or just go apesh*t with an AR and do so much quick damage that your OC stays up for a really long time.

Nallic
04-22-2013, 01:32 AM
Well now I have seen a screenshot from Dwane running co-ops, I've yet to see one from Deiphysity. Personally I agree with Dwane, not only do explosions shake the screen and push everything thing, they are quite annoying when being spammed. Maybe your personal damage is good with then, the group's collective damage is suffering.

As for my own personal findings, I again have to agree with Dwane. I've run both explosives (similar build to yours) and a LMG build (probably similar to Dwane's). I prefer the LMG build. I feel it has better flexibility, it's much easier and better to do damage on spread out targets, it has more range, and it's much less annoying for the rest in the group.

In your calculations you keep talking about 1500x4 etc., but what about all those times where there's just one little raider and another one 20 meters away? By the time your explosives get that target, my LMG will already have killed it and probably the next raider and the one after that too.

Maybe yours is the best AOE damage build Deiphysity, but I don't think it's the highest dmg co-op build.

Ronan DEx
04-22-2013, 01:53 AM
looks interesting. might check it out!

Would it not be beneficial to stack this with the 30% reload speed increase if standing still?

mikegonzalez2k
04-22-2013, 02:14 AM
looks interesting. might check it out!

Would it not be beneficial to stack this with the 30% reload speed increase if standing still?

I thought about that one, but when OC is up you are usually moving around too much so I'm not sure how beneficial it would be.

That perk would really kill as a 1 shot Sniper though.

If you were to spec into Single Minded for the reload speed, Pumped Up would be a good one to also add. That would make your time inbetween EGO decrease even further.

Since it takes 40 seconds normally to recharge your EGO Power. A 15% reduction per full reload would mean.

0.15x40 = 6s

So each full reload would take off 6s off the CD.
That might be nice if you can reload really fast with Single Minded.

Deiphysity
04-22-2013, 02:55 PM
The screenshot that Dwane posted is of Ill. I talked to Ill in-game and he has nothing to do with this post.

And to clear things up..

I use a mass cannon as my primary weapon in all PVE circumstances, and single targets are never a problem.. in fact, single targets are easier because i just detonate the missile right on top of them, doing full damage - usually a 1 shot kill unless its a really tough enemy, and then i just spam them at 2 shots per 3 seconds at the ridiculous damage numbers that I posted.

I kill enemies faster than anyone around me. Single targets or otherwise. ESPECIALLY the really armored targets.

And no, you won't do more dps with a swarm cannon. Keep in mind, to use the mass cannon efficiently, you have to be used to aiming it and releasing the clusters at the right time. Once you can do that efficiently and extremely quickly, you'll be doing huge, consistent, well aimed, focused damage.

I can blow through the coop instances solo if I have to with the mass cannon. It just kills so fast. A group of raider rioters? Pff. 5 of them dead in 2 shots easy with overcharge active. And.. with the build, overcharge is always active during a fight. Dark matter? Pff. 5 of them dead in a matter of seconds. Obstacles in the way? Target far away? Pff. Thats where familiarity with the weapon comes in handy.

And i've stated numerous times why I don't care to talk about end-result of a coop instance. The results vary from match to match. Anyone could take a screenshot of a good instance run and post it. That doesn't mean anything. Just like I could take a screenshot of my PVP matches where i go 18-2. It doesn't mean anything for a build, it just means I played well that match and my enemies sucked.

Thats why you have to go with the unchanging data. Data that is consistent no matter what the situation is, without considering the user of the build's skill level at aiming and timing shots, etc.

That data is damage per shot, reload speed, fire rate, etc.
You simply cannot argue with those numbers. They're factual, not opinionated, and not based on how well someone plays (beyond being able to use the weapon as its intended, that is.. which is kindof a given)

Deiphysity
04-22-2013, 03:06 PM
Indeed. It's like Prepardness; "wow, if I have a large number of rounds in a weapon's clip, the 9% will make it reload more lead per second... two LMGs!". Or "let's use weapons with a tiny number of rounds and Pumped Up, that means it will trigger more often!".

Theory crafting, math and empirical data and testing are one thing. Using the blatantly obvious perks or build coupled with a weapon with obviously bugged (or unbalanced might be truer) statistics (such as the Mass Cannon) is... well, not that great of a feat to be honest. But again, to each their own. ;)

Its not theory crafting. Its a build that i've been using since day two, been doing extremely well with, and havn't seen anyone else use or talk about, yet I dominate with it.

Deiphysity
04-22-2013, 03:08 PM
Some people love to brag about stuff and "lay claim" to builds. Others have reached puberty. :)

Some people love to join in on a valid forum topic and attempt to insult someone rather than contributing. Others have reached puberty.

People are different. Some people enjoy this sort of thing. But thats not what the post is about. I've stated several times that I don't care to argue about my personality. People need to grow up and learn how to stay on topic in a debate. The post is about a build, not about my skill level as a player, not about how smart I am, its about a build. Everything that someone states, will, however, reflect their personality, but that is not what the topic is about. But thanks for caring about what other people like to do in their free time. Also, thanks for being constructive! Love the input! (sarcasm)

Khal
04-22-2013, 03:15 PM
I think armada launcher will do more dmg with this build but both are boring to use. Kinda like a noobtube build. Would get boring very quick, only using a launcher.

Deiphysity
04-22-2013, 03:16 PM
Are you 5 years old? The dude came and made a post about a good build. If you don't like it get off the thread. He hasn't come across as arrogant or pushy, and has clearly wrote out statistically how it works. What have you added or shown that is better or equivalent? Maybe you're just butthurt you didn't come up with it?

This. Indeed. ^^^^

Seal
04-22-2013, 03:22 PM
This. Indeed. ^^^^

Now his butt hurts

Deiphysity
04-22-2013, 03:23 PM
I think armada launcher will do more dmg with this build but both are boring to use. Kinda like a noobtube build. Would get boring very quick, only using a launcher.

I actually enjoy using a launcher. I've played too many FPS games over the years, and none of them have a great explosives system. Its really refreshing to use something other than a standard firearm. I've tested the armada, and no, the 3 shots from the armada don't even do as much damage as one shot from a mass cannon, plus you don't get the uber fast reload time to keep overcharge active with the Time Out perk, and the armada wouldn't benefit as much from overload. Also, the mass cannon, to me, has precision aim. The missile is pretty fast, and I can detonate it exactly when I want to, regardless of the terain. I don't have to aim at their feet, or at them, to attempt to hit them in the blast. Just detonate above their head or near them. Of all the launchers, the mass cannon, for me, has proven to be the most surgical.


And once again, my in-game name is Xeritan.

Please, if anyone has any objections, just add me and run an instance, as it is much easier to show you than to explain, even though I have already thoroughly explained it.

I wouldn't be offering that if I wasn't confident in my claims.

Deiphysity
04-22-2013, 03:28 PM
Now his butt hurts

Thanks for posting this contribution, random internet user #52534234. Glad you felt the need to post that instead of being constructive.

Deiphysity
04-22-2013, 03:34 PM
I thought about that one, but when OC is up you are usually moving around too much so I'm not sure how beneficial it would be.

That perk would really kill as a 1 shot Sniper though.

If you were to spec into Single Minded for the reload speed, Pumped Up would be a good one to also add. That would make your time inbetween EGO decrease even further.

Since it takes 40 seconds normally to recharge your EGO Power. A 15% reduction per full reload would mean.

0.15x40 = 6s

So each full reload would take off 6s off the CD.
That might be nice if you can reload really fast with Single Minded.

I agree that standing still isn't really an option, but I would like to point out that overcharge stays active permanently during a fight. As long as you're still killing/attacking, it won't run out. And then u just reload a weapon a few times after the fight to cool it down before you're on to the next one.

Cuddle
04-22-2013, 03:35 PM
And I thought I had a big epeen. You take the cake. Eat it all up, Mr. Egocentric, this game is buiilt for you!

Deiphysity
04-22-2013, 03:39 PM
And I thought I had a big epeen. You take the cake. Eat it all up, Mr. Egocentric, this game is buiilt for you!

It wouldn't have turned into such a big ordeal if people had stayed on topic. But really, most people don't know how to debate. Thats why colleges offer classes to teach you how to debate. A large portion of this thread is just me defending my position from people attempting to insult or question either my emotional state, my personality, my interests, my skill level as a player, or my motives for posting, among other irrelevant subjects. I'm surprised noone has questioned my sexual preference yet. But, point being.. none of these things have anything to do with the topic.

This was my first time trying to post something on a video game forum, and will probably be the last :P

I might be a selfish egotistical illiterate homosexual muslim african american lawyer who enjoys the occasional b.eastiality and self sodomization. But even if I were, thats all irrelevant to a debate topic, and I try to not bring up such matters, even if backed into a corner, because.. well, its neither on topic or productive. And why should anyone care.

Cuddle
04-22-2013, 03:41 PM
This was my first time trying to post something on a video game forum, and will probably be the last :P
I guess all 96 of your posts are in this one thread? I didn't count all of them but there were quite a few, around 50ish but certainly not 96.
Good riddance.

Deiphysity
04-22-2013, 03:50 PM
I guess all 96 of your posts are in this one thread? I didn't count all of them but there were quite a few, around 50ish but certainly not 96.
Good riddance.

Thanks for caring, but yeah. Most of them are here. I also posted info on arkfall codes to someone who had a question. And info on lock boxes in another, if I remember correctly. This was the first, though.

And once again, way off topic and not relevant. I've been nothing but polite to people in this thread, I've conducted myself in a mature and coherent fashion, and only asked to stay on topic, so I'm not sure what your "good riddance" is all about. But hey, to each his own.

If you guys care enough about my personality rather than the build that i posted, then just start another thread about my personality or motives or whatever. If not, then as I said, please stay on topic.

People on these forums REALLY seem to care about what other people are feeling, rather than sticking to the topic at hand. I'm curious, from a psychological standpoint, why that is... but thats a topic for another day.

I personally don't care if you're butthurt. I don't care if you're mad, I dont care if your sad, happy, etc. I, being a kind person, would prefer that people be happy, but, I'm not going to delve into your emotional state on a forum. Other people though.. well, just read some forum threads. People reeeally care about whether or not the next person is mad or "butthurt", egotistical, all things pertaining to other people's personal lifestyles and mindset, and will go out of their way to point them out, rather than just keep it to themselves. I thought we learned to do away with this kind of behavior in middle school? Maybe it makes them feel better about themselves? I dunno. But, like i said, topic for another day.


EDIT:

Here's how immature, uneducated forum goers debate:

Original topic: Apples are usually round in shape and easier to roll across a table than bananas.

Reply: "i don't like apples."
Reply: "apples taste better than bananas"
Reply: "you're just butthurt they're not purple"
Reply: "i don't have tables in my house"
Reply: "you're gay"
Reply: "you're stupid for eating apples"

This seems to be a great example of the way forum users debate topics. Although it is slightly exaggerated.. only slightly.

Ensu
04-22-2013, 03:57 PM
I guess all 96 of your posts are in this one thread? I didn't count all of them but there were quite a few, around 50ish but certainly not 96.
Good riddance.

I'm not sure why you decided to post in this thread.

To Deiphysity, more information about the mechanics and synergies is always good. To those who call such synergies cheap, they're designed. You're meant to find the synergies, and use them in new and exciting ways. That's the whole point of the EGO grid and the weapon bonuses/mods.

SonicBoom
04-22-2013, 04:03 PM
Some people love to join in on a valid forum topic and attempt to insult someone rather than contributing. Others have reached puberty.Relax, I'm not trying to insult you. You do that quite well on your own. :p Seriously, how do you claim a loadout everyone can build on their own? "Hey, everyone! I use a shotgun and pistol, so give me credit if you do it too!" Ridiculous.

BrassRazoo
04-22-2013, 04:04 PM
I'm surprised noone has questioned my sexual preference yet.

Are you one of them?

Deiphysity
04-22-2013, 04:10 PM
Relax, I'm not trying to insult you. You do that quite well on your own. :p Seriously, how do you claim a loadout everyone can build on their own? "Hey, everyone! I use a shotgun and pistol, so give me credit if you do it too!" Ridiculous.

Ummm, how do I? The same way anyone lays claim to an idea? Just because the idea was available for everyone to use doesn't mean that they have used it.

Embril
04-22-2013, 04:11 PM
I think it's fun to go for a build, but I don't personally think it's even necessary.

For the first couple of weeks of the game I took 2nd, 3rd, or 4th on most of the arkfalls I did. For the last week or so I get 1st in damage now, often by a lot, as long as I don't show up late. I really don't use any particular build at all, or even focus on the perks much...some I've never even tweaked.

I use SMG's for general use, Votan sniper (the fast-firing 1kish damage one) for long-range fights, a pump shotgun for ammo conservation fights and sometimes a swarm launcher for Monarchs on the last phase of a major arkfall. The key to it seems to be as much switching loadouts to match the situation as much as just having something solid to use; if I need to fall back on something, for me it's the SMG because of the very fast reload times not limiting the amount you can fire... but only works when ammo is dropping enough to keep it going.

I use Gunslinger, the perk to increase ammo drops, and the rest I use for health boosts or incoming damage reduction. Can't shoot if you're dead. On my sniper and shotgun loadout I use the increased reload speed when standing still perk to minimize downtime (huge on a pump shotgun with a 17-shot capacity, although it doesn't always work right).

Anyway, just a suggestion for people looking at perk builds to look at loadouts just as much if not more than the actual perks. Having different weapon types readily available so you're never out of ammo is as big of a deal as making sure you get the most damage out of what you're using.

VolDeVie
04-22-2013, 04:13 PM
I couldn't stop laughing reading this thread. This guy seriously needs a couple pats on the heads so he can calm down. Never seen ANYONE that needed attention so badly. I couldn't help but picture the op being this guy that's drugged out, talking way too fast, and twitching. Lol, please make more threads for more lols.

Deiphysity
04-22-2013, 04:16 PM
I couldn't stop laughing reading this thread. This guy seriously needs a couple pats on the heads so he can calm down. Never seen ANYONE that needed attention so badly. I couldn't help but picture the op being this guy that's drugged out, talking way too fast, and twitching. Lol, please make more threads for more lols.

Frustration can make anyone seem silly. It would have been so much simpler if people just posted information about builds that are better or equivalent, or posted specific reasons that they think the build is inefficient, rather than posting all of that other junk that they have in an attempt to gain the upper hand and get a rise out of me to, well, make me look silly, which has happened. I've attempted to reply to each prod at my personality as peacefully and coherently as I could, but, all in all, that's exactly what trolls want you to do, because then you seem like you're dragging on, and then they can troll you for caring about what they're saying.

I suppose people aren't used to genuine replies, but rather used to troll sarcasm and short, quick witted remarks and insults, because that's the only way to seem cool and laid back on a forum.

And what you imagine me to be is also, as i've stated, irrelevant to the topic, and I don't care to discuss such personal matters on a forum. If you do, however, that's your prerogative.

Deiphysity
04-22-2013, 04:40 PM
I think it's fun to go for a build, but I don't personally think it's even necessary.

For the first couple of weeks of the game I took 2nd, 3rd, or 4th on most of the arkfalls I did. For the last week or so I get 1st in damage now, often by a lot, as long as I don't show up late. I really don't use any particular build at all, or even focus on the perks much...some I've never even tweaked.

I use SMG's for general use, Votan sniper (the fast-firing 1kish damage one) for long-range fights, a pump shotgun for ammo conservation fights and sometimes a swarm launcher for Monarchs on the last phase of a major arkfall. The key to it seems to be as much switching loadouts to match the situation as much as just having something solid to use; if I need to fall back on something, for me it's the SMG because of the very fast reload times not limiting the amount you can fire... but only works when ammo is dropping enough to keep it going.

I use Gunslinger, the perk to increase ammo drops, and the rest I use for health boosts or incoming damage reduction. Can't shoot if you're dead. On my sniper and shotgun loadout I use the increased reload speed when standing still perk to minimize downtime (huge on a pump shotgun with a 17-shot capacity, although it doesn't always work right).

Anyway, just a suggestion for people looking at perk builds to look at loadouts just as much if not more than the actual perks. Having different weapon types readily available so you're never out of ammo is as big of a deal as making sure you get the most damage out of what you're using.

Sounds like you do pretty good with that build. But sorry to say, I think this thread is dead. Its turned into a big flamefest just like every other thread. People will have to filter through several pages of ******** to get to some actual information that they might want - such as build ideas and build criticism.

Thanks for some actual constructive input though. Its refreshing.

HAMcutter
04-22-2013, 08:49 PM
Ok been playing with this build, and since ive played the campaign 2 times over, endgame for me is pretty much arkfalls since i am 7/7 co-op pursuits and farming dailies per usual.

Question 1: What is your secondary? I think you mentioned ground pounder

Question 2: How to you get the mass cannon to hit the weak spots on the main body (under arms or maws). Do you NOT detonate the missile? Its a fair bit weaker un-detonated.

Question 3: Whats your strategy for the bug that stays wayyyy up top on the boss? on a good shot most I can get is one cluster bomb to hit. The mass cannon seems to be king for land critters and low flying ones, but super high ones, im having trouble.

Full disclaimer: I havent re-specced and maxed out all your suggested perks, which I will do shortly to reap maximum gains. Also do you go for straight up damage or full damage radius when modding the mass cannon.

Booshy
04-23-2013, 04:00 AM
I think adding risk taker to this along with thick skinned would be an awesome idea - then just get a shield with low actual protection but very quick time to recharge. Therefore you get the bonuses of the shield "breaking" more often, plus it will regen quickly so you won't have to deal with being without a shield for too long.

Memnoch
04-23-2013, 04:15 AM
Nice thread, other than the pointless bashing. If I was a mod here I would have stomped on a lot of these pages back, simply making attacks on other forum users prohibited and not conducive to the community.

That said I don't like the idea of min-maxing for effect in this game. That's probably the reason why I hate anything other than the co-op matches and only played the other modes for persuit reasons. I really cannot be bothered with all that tweaking for some perceived edge over others. I prefer to play how I want to play and not use the game mechanics to win, at least not to that degree.

Whippersnapper
04-24-2013, 06:04 AM
Ego Power:
Overcharge. +30% damage and instant weapon reload upon use

Perks:
Time Out: +9% Ego Power Duration upon Full Reload
Explosive Onslaught: +9% Ego Power Duration on Explosive Kill
Killing Machine: +6 Second Overcharge Duration
Overload: +30% Reload Speed while Overcharge is active
Pumped Up: -15% Cooldown of Ego Power upon Full Reload
Intimidate: +75% damage to enemies who are flinching

How the heck am I supposed to get Time Out? Its next to the Decoy Power.
Or do we activate more when our power increases?

M1ghtyQu1nn
04-24-2013, 07:56 AM
Mass Cannon and Ground Pounder has the highest damage output out of all the explosive weapons. They are also resistant to the hellbugs light arms crap. I've told this to countless of people doing Arkfalls, they never seem to listen and use the Rebounder and Swarm cannons instead.

All well and good, but people who use aoe explosives on the hellbug arkfalls annoy the dog snot outta me. all it does is kill the skitterlings and prolong taking out the crystal. But hey screw everyone else as long as you get you kills/dmg output right?...

Whippersnapper
04-24-2013, 09:10 AM
All well and good, but people who use aoe explosives on the hellbug arkfalls annoy the dog snot outta me. all it does is kill the skitterlings and prolong taking out the crystal. But hey screw everyone else as long as you get you kills/dmg output right?...
I'm fine with prolonged Arkfalls. More XP, Loot, etc. And those skitterlings are annoying. Although, I tend to go for the medium fliers and bigger bugs. I am currently having issues getting to kill them though. A two shot rocket won't cut it. By the time it reloads, its dead.

Insanityplea
04-24-2013, 09:32 AM
Mass Cannons are destructive as hell, good job making a loadout entirely around them just to make an insanely high damage weapon even more so.

I stopped using Mass Cannons after I noticed the xp bar didnt budge. At this point in my characters life, its about kills and leveling the weapons up. Most if not all weapon skills are 10+ at this point in time and two are at 20.

Also having the best damage at the end of a Coop is not hard. I did it with a pistol and shotgun earlier today *claps for self*. Sooner or later you will realize about half the players dont really care after the first few times and realizing it does nothing beneficial to them just get lazy.

Oh iv also topped charts with these combinations...
pistol / bolt action sniper rifle
pistol / semi-auto sniper rifle
pistol / smg
pistol / lmg
shotgun / smg
shotgun / ar
.....are we getting the picture yet? A fairly decent player can top the dps chart with anything. Ya put me in a group of all hardcore/good players trying to get that #1 and I probably wont get it. But at the same time, I am just running coops at this point for a mind-numbingly easy manner of getting keycodes and weapon xp.

But again, props on finding a synergized perk build around the most devastating weapons in the game (pve-wise).

Zyndia
04-24-2013, 10:33 AM
Explain what will give you more damage and ease of kills in pve? If you'd like to test it out, we can run a coop mission. I'll top your damage and triple your kills.

6500 Bits on I can top your damage with my Shotgun/AR build in any Co-Op mission.

If you are ready to bet money on it add "Zyndia Hearts" and I will host a live stream so people can watch it.

Facade
04-24-2013, 12:23 PM
You can activate all 4 powers, but only use 1 at a time on each loadout.
If you really wanted you could have a different power on each loadout.

KashraFall
04-24-2013, 01:22 PM
Took top damage while leveling a wolfhound pistol. No damage enhances, just tanking perks. Took 1.4mil and only pulled my LMG out for the boss in explosions 101. Builds are fine, it is good you found one you liked but don't claim it is the absolute best. Truth is, there isn't a best, it is all preference.

PseudoCool
04-24-2013, 01:59 PM
After reading it.. I have to agree with Kashra. I have NEVER come in first place in either Co-op or Arkfall.. then again.. I'm not trying to either :)

The build looks like a good min/max build however, but really.. it depends on your playstyle. It wouldn't work for me because that whole "one shot then reload" thing would just have my trigger finger in spasms...lol

datalore
04-24-2013, 03:06 PM
pve top ranking has no value so doesnt matter what you use and i agree with dwain since your stating paper damage rather than game damage and since its an mmo and your talking about co-op matchs and you dont care that spamming explosions make the other 3 player enjoy the game as much.
i use cloak with dmg reducing perks more for pk but tbh like i said pve it doesnt make any difference what you use just pick a weapon aim n shoot get last youll get the same reward so who cares

Archangel
04-24-2013, 03:43 PM
Top damage in every coop instance. Top kills in every coop instance.

Weapon Of Choice: Mass Cannon
Fires a single missile that can be manually detonated in the air to release 4 cluster bombs which deal approximately 1500 damage each WITHOUT overcharge being active. 1500x4 AOE damage. 1 round in the clip.

Ego Power:
Overcharge. +30% damage and instant weapon reload upon use

Perks:
Time Out: +9% Ego Power Duration upon Full Reload
Explosive Onslaught: +9% Ego Power Duration on Explosive Kill
Killing Machine: +6 Second Overcharge Duration
Overload: +30% Reload Speed while Overcharge is active
Pumped Up: -15% Cooldown of Ego Power upon Full Reload
Intimidate: +75% damage to enemies who are flinching

Total Synergy:

Fire a missile, hit reload to make it explode into a cluster, boosting your ego power duration by 9%. The resulting blast will usually get a kill, giving another +9% duration to the ego power. +18% per shot, or +27% per 2 shots if it takes 2 shots to kill the enemy. (18% for 2 reloads and another 9% for the kill). The initial explosion of the missile that releases the clusters makes enemies flinch, each other bomb from the cluster get +75% damage from intimidate on top of the current +30% from overcharge. Not to mention you're reloading at +30% speed. After the fight, just fire off a few missiles and reload to trigger Pumped Up, which will cool down your ego power very quickly.

I have not been able to come up with a more synergistic build than this, other than simply stacking defensive perks. (Fortitude +225 hp, Thick Skinned -50% damage when shield breaks, effectively making fortitude give +450 hp rather than 225 since you take half dmg)

Build by Xeritan of Clan Deiphysity

Thanks for viewing! See you in the game!
Deiphysity is recruiting, by the way!

The perk that reloads a portion of your grenade and a portion of your equiped ammo also is OP with the mass launcher. (my favorite weapon in game)

I never ran it with your perk setup but i too would always place top in co-ops.

I would add the explosive kill perk because what happens on weaker enemies and skitterlings is a volley of these rockets.

Imagine your Overcharge ability to instant reload and shoot 2 rockets at once happening every time you kill a single skitterling.

Its chaos and a whole lot of fun. The reload will give you your 1 round to fire over and over every time you get a kill, free reload and free shot.

Archangel
04-24-2013, 03:47 PM
The other part to this build is a great secondary weapon for boss fights and those need to hit critical points. The mass alone wont get you #1.

Whippersnapper
04-25-2013, 01:35 AM
Seriously, how the heck am I supposed to get Time Out? Its next to the Decoy Power.
Or do we activate more when our power increases?

demontrace
04-25-2013, 02:14 AM
Unfortunately rocket launchers don't contribute towards 12 of the combat pursuits, so until I get all those done, I can't use rocket launchers. I sell or break down every single one of them I find.

Sure I like rocket launchers, and I'm sure you have fun with your build, but if you haven't done those combat pursuits, you're never going to get them done unless you stop using your rocket launcher build. Leveling the bmg to level 10 alone is punishing enough.

The nice thing, though, is that you're a more well rounded player after you've leveled up so many different weapons. Forces you to try new things, find out what you like.

Donnyrides
04-25-2013, 11:56 AM
Intimidate says that the flinch has to come from a different source. Take 75% of your damage numbers away.

Lilan Kahn
04-25-2013, 12:13 PM
meh still prefer my ground pounder

Galactimus
04-25-2013, 08:40 PM
Can you confirm that Intimidation deals 75% more damage with a Mass Cannon? I just found a Legendary version and have been detonating just above their heads. And while the initial explosive does indeed make them flinch they usually recover from it way before the cluster of four detonates. I'm seeing 1500 x 4 with and without Intimidation.

I have the same problem with Ground Pounders; enemies recover from the immediate explosion and even start moving a bit before being hit by the cluster of doom. Flinch also doesn't seem to work on shielded enemies either. (Or hellbugs but they die in one shot regardless.)

Nero
04-25-2013, 09:16 PM
6500 Bits on I can top your damage with my Shotgun/AR build in any Co-Op mission.

If you are ready to bet money on it add "Zyndia Hearts" and I will host a live stream so people can watch it.
Id watch. Ill come along with my infector bmg combo so I wont take too much dps from you two. Just need one other to take up space.

Also Deiphysity Post a few Screenshots of your damage. At least one being your coop end screen or ****. We all want proof not 50 posts from you telling us how great it is. Some of these pages have 7/10 posts made by you on a single page.

FlippyCake
04-26-2013, 09:22 AM
@Whippersnapper:
To get time out, you just need to add one perk to the skills going that way.
You can reach all the skills in your EGO tree, you just need to work your way there.
Look at this, and it should give you an idea as to how to get it:
http://defiance-central.com/ego-calculator/?link=6c-7a-8c-9c-18e-26a-27a-30a-35a-36c-40c-45a-49a-50c-54c-55c-56a-59c-&start=18
Hope this helps. The link was found earlier in this thread.

IAMVILELENT
04-26-2013, 09:35 AM
These build ideas are nice, but my x2 frontier saw build tops this by a longshot. Never run out of ammo, and a 1 second reload time, increased fire rates, no recoil for the most part. SHHHHHHH! It's a secret!

Blast away, when weapon ammo low, pop OC, when magazine out, switch gun, repeat. Never have to hit reload.

Dwane
04-26-2013, 09:59 AM
These build ideas are nice, but my x2 frontier saw build tops this by a longshot. Never run out of ammo, and a 1 second reload time, increased fire rates, no recoil for the most part. SHHHHHHH! It's a secret!

Blast away, when weapon ammo low, pop OC, when magazine out, switch gun, repeat. Never have to hit reload.

Already told that there. As long as u pay attention to what are u doing, u can go ~1M7 total dmg in scrapworks/101 (best weapon lvling coop maps, others are just too much running for mostly worthless targets). I was also asking Op for his total dmg numbers which he wasnt able to provide so far.

http://imageshack.us/a/img221/954/defiance201304201537214.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img855/7624/defiance201304241959134.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img109/6312/defiance201304241911288.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img843/8827/defiance201304231847200.png

Cuddle
04-26-2013, 01:35 PM
Builds are fine, it is good you found one you liked but don't claim it is the absolute best. Truth is, there isn't a best, it is all preference.
Math is truth. As long as there is math in gaming there will always be a best. It's one of those quirky attributes of math, it's finite and definitive. So the truth is, there is a best, it's only preference to those who like to disregard math.
DISCLAIMER: I am not saying this is the best build. It may be, but I really don't care enough to do any math when there's no healing involved :P

Personally I think all the bashing could have been avoided if the OP had acted more maturely and not titled it how it is. Claiming something is the best without doing enough research is silly, then trying to act superior with it is downright dumb.

Migrayne
04-26-2013, 02:01 PM
I can't stand the launchers and detonators in coop. They mess the screen up so much its hard to snipe mobs. I prefer precision sniping or AR work to just mass explosions holding to hit everything.

Rocket laun hers are ment to be used against vehicles and cannons or field artillery not to shoot at people. They annoy me.

Dwane
04-26-2013, 02:23 PM
I can't stand the launchers and detonators in coop. They mess the screen up so much its hard to snipe mobs. I prefer precision sniping or AR work to just mass explosions holding to hit everything.

I have pointed that aswell, but it was considered as trolling and offtopic by OP. All that screen shaking and enemies flinching just makes firearms users less effective and overal group dmg outop decreases.

teflondon
04-26-2013, 02:32 PM
As the last couple posters mentioned, I'll mention it as well. I've used and had others use such weapons and it's just Horrendous to try and fight along side them. Even in arkfalls it's completely distracting and makes doing just about anything more difficult for the rest of the team. When it comes to Co-op maps as the rest of the team's damage goes down(can't see, hard to aim or even know WTF is going on with that much shaking/eye candy flying about) the one person's personal damage goes up.

There is no doubt it works fantastically, for you personally, but this is NOT a great team build at all and only serves to detract from or reduce others fun and contribution. @shrugs@

Whippersnapper
04-30-2013, 09:59 AM
Deiphysity, the issue here is that its hard to aim for kills with the mass cannon when exploding it in the air.
The mass cannon I found does 350x4 not 1500 x4. Better is the Rebounder Cannon, which will explode on hit. It will do initial hit dmg, get it with splash dmg, or hit it again if its charging. Plus the chance to hit other mobs.

Anyway,
-Do you get dmg x 4 if you just let it hit the target?
-When exploding it, 2 nades go to the right and 2 to the left, usually missing the intended target.
-You have to aim to the right to have a chance to hit with some nades
-You have to detonate with perfect timing, or the nades will fall behind or in front of the target

Seems like detonating mass cannon is more of spray and pray than aiming.

Dwane
04-30-2013, 10:50 AM
Why u necroed this fail thread...

Facade
04-30-2013, 11:18 AM
Why u necroed this fail thread...

That seems to happen a lot on this site. There are quite a few I've seen suddenly brought back up by some random user responding to a topic that hasn't seen action in 20+ days

Whippersnapper
04-30-2013, 04:31 PM
Simply put, I ignore any flames and concentrate on the information. After trying the setup, I had some thoughts on it and posted something on the matter.

Specifically, the rocket launcher to be used.

I been here for like 10 days and I find the thread useful.

mikegonzalez2k
05-06-2013, 05:38 PM
Try this one, my latest build...

http://defiance-central.com/ego-calculator/?link=6c-7a-8c-18e-26a-27a-30a-35a-36c-40c-45a-50c-54c-55c-59a-60a-69a-78a-90c-100c-&start=18

Here are the bonuses

This one keep the OC up the longest by giving you back EGO each time you damage, and when your shield breaks.
When it's off Energy Leech gives you 3% recharge for every kill. Since the OC CD is 40s that's 1.2 seconds per kill.
Add Quickening and and the total CD is lowered to 30s. Let's think about this. Say there are lots of easy to kill mobs and you 1 every second for 10 seconds. That means 10 x 1.2s = 12s off your cooldown which started at 40-9=31s.

31s - 12s - 10s = 9s

There, you now have a 9s CD after 10s of 1s kills. That's the fastest recharge you can do without having to reload.
And you are getting dps the whole time since you are forced to kill fast.

Insider
05-06-2013, 06:00 PM
Try this one, my latest build...

http://defiance-central.com/ego-calculator/?link=6c-7a-8c-18e-26a-27a-30a-35a-36c-40c-45a-50c-54c-55c-59a-60a-69a-78a-90c-100c-&start=18

Here are the bonuses

This one keep the OC up the longest by giving you back EGO each time you damage, and when your shield breaks.
When it's off Energy Leech gives you 3% recharge for every kill. Since the OC CD is 40s that's 1.2 seconds per kill.
Add Quickening and and the total CD is lowered to 30s. Let's think about this. Say there are lots of easy to kill mobs and you 1 every second for 10 seconds. That means 10 x 1.2s = 12s off your cooldown which started at 40-9=31s.

31s - 12s - 10s = 9s

There, you now have a 9s CD after 10s of 1s kills. That's the fastest recharge you can do without having to reload.
And you are getting dps the whole time since you are forced to kill fast.


quickening = terrible (+ ego recharge for melee really ?)
take Pumped Up and Time Out and this would be better

Hebrews_Tea
05-06-2013, 06:03 PM
Using a mass cannon is okay for certain things but when weak spots are taken into account you get more DPS out of more precise weapons. And 4000 DPS is low. It's okay for multi target but you can get a lot more DPS from ARs.

mikegonzalez2k
05-07-2013, 12:32 AM
quickening = terrible (+ ego recharge for melee really ?)
take Pumped Up and Time Out and this would be better

That makes sense I switched that and my Nano effect out and I think it works better...

screaming
05-07-2013, 03:24 AM
i prefer this build >>
http://frdc.fr/ego/2.0/?d=72&e=2750&t=17.5-29.3-50.3-39.3-19.3-43.3-6.3-44.3-0.0-0.0&p=003033303005000150300031030033300101003300333100 3311000300300300050000503133110303030003

weapons: -primary: saw lmg with magazine mod
-secondary: vot nano frager with 1.5 reload and 10% egorecharge after full reload

that means rock with my saw untill the mag is empty switch to secondary 3 shoots and back to my saw oc again and so on.
the clue is in this spec and with the 10% from the nano frager, oc have only a cd of 4.5 sec.

Jab
05-07-2013, 03:30 AM
For what it's worth, I'm interested, and will be trying this out when I get more points to invest.

Thanks!

edit: Question to OP, how do you keep up with the ammo, as the mass cannon doesn't have a huge ammo supply? You run back and forth to ammo points? thx.