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Grant
04-21-2013, 04:30 AM
Hello,

I want to hear some advices about tanking in Defianace.

I know that its all about my gameplay skills, still I know also that tanking and healing can be done in Defianace.

First things first:

Can you share me with youre ideas about tanking build? I went into Decoy because thats quite obvious choice If we talk about tanking. Also I went into every perks that give you boost into Damage Reduction.

Any other suggestions about tanking build?

Second thing:

How about equipment? I use AR with Sawed Off Shotgun. Tank with Sniper Rifle is not tank at all for me. BUt I'm open for your opinion.

Then the Shield. I was using Shield that could take 1600 damage with 40% recharge rate and 7.0 recharge delay. Now I'm using Shield which can take 1100 damage with 70% recharge rate and 3.8 recharge delay and I think that first Shield was better. Why? Because it was better If I could stay longer until DPS finish enemies than just running around at all time because shield is quickly done but it's going to recharge pretty soon.

What do you think about that? Tanking things etc.

ExpiredLifetime
04-21-2013, 04:31 AM
You really can't "tank" in the sense that you can in other MMOs. You can be more tanky, but not a tank - if that makes any sense.

Grant
04-21-2013, 04:34 AM
You really can't "tank" in the sense that you can in other MMOs. You can be more tanky, but not a tank - if that makes any sense.

Agreed. I know that there is quite a difference but If you co-op with player which can regenerate your shield - work can be done. Still I know that there is much difference to be Tanky here and to Tank in other MMO like Rift.

Alcohol Fueled Brewtality
04-21-2013, 04:37 AM
Eh. Shield is for wussies. There are a lot of neat tank Perks that either come into effect when you

1) Have no Shield/Shied Breaks
2) Are recharging your Shield

You can tank pretty well with Health as long as you pick the Regeneration Perk.

ExpiredLifetime
04-21-2013, 04:37 AM
Agreed. I know that there is quite a difference but If you co-op with player which can regenerate your shield - work can be done. Still I know that there is much difference to be Tanky here and to Tank in other MMO like Rift.
In theory you *could* be a semi-tank. It wouldn't be very effective, but it could work.

Ultralord
04-21-2013, 04:38 AM
This game is all dps all the time. There's no need for healers or tanks at all.

ExpiredLifetime
04-21-2013, 04:39 AM
Eh. Shield is for wussies. There are a lot of neat tank Perks that either come into effect when you

1) Have no Shield/Shied Breaks
2) Are recharging your Shield

You can tank pretty well with Health as long as you pick the Regeneration Perk.
The shield recharging thing only applies to one shot from my testing; after that first shot hits you, your shield stops recharging and the boost is negated.

You'd be better off going with something like hunker down, cellular armor and the perk for 30% reduced damage when stationary. I can't really give you the numbers, but you can get up to around 50% damage reduction.

Grant
04-21-2013, 04:39 AM
Eh. Shield is for wussies. There are a lot of neat tank Perks that either come into effect when you

1) Have no Shield/Shied Breaks
2) Are recharging your Shield

You can tank pretty well with Health as long as you pick the Regeneration Perk.

Can we follow your thoughts?

1) Can you name this perk? Or paste the Build you think of when you talk about tanking.

2) Does the Health Regeneration perk is truly efficient? How quick its regenerate your health? +9%?

Alcohol Fueled Brewtality
04-21-2013, 04:43 AM
Can we follow your thoughts?

1) Can you name this perk? Or paste the Build you think of when you talk about tanking.

2) Does the Health Regeneration perk is truly efficient? How quick its regenerate your health? +9%?

1) Thick Skinned. The other ones I was thinking about was on-melee kill. They are still pretty potent though, I'm trying for a Shotgun based tank build to take advantage of the melee Perks.
2) AFAIK it is the same regeneration as you get by default but it is constantly active, instead of you having to wait for your Shield to hit 100% before healing your Health. Being able to regenerate both Shield and Health at the same time is a big, biiiig upgrade from having to recharge them separately.

There is still a lot I don't know though. Like there is a Perk for 15% reduced damage on melee kill and another Perk doing the same on any kill.

Do they stack for 30%?

Do they override each other and still only apply 15%?

Grant
04-21-2013, 04:50 AM
The shield recharging thing only applies to one shot from my testing; after that first shot hits you, your shield stops recharging and the boost is negated.

You'd be better off going with something like hunker down, cellular armor and the perk for 30% reduced damage when stationary. I can't really give you the numbers, but you can get up to around 50% damage reduction.

From my testing Build and Shield is like 3-4 shots before shield is down :) But then you are with your health and need to live until shield recharge.

And cellular armor is like 15% damage reduction. After some updates you can get 50% when someone shot you in your back. If not games allow you about 30% damage reduction.

Alcohol Fueled Brewtality
04-21-2013, 04:51 AM
Cellular is only 6%. Maybe 9%. But not 15%.

Rikishi
04-21-2013, 04:53 AM
Grab Hunker Down, Fortified Stance, Cellular Armor, Thick Skinned, Failsafe, Fortitude. With this you take 30% less damage while standing still and crouching, with 225 more HP than usual. When your shield breaks you take 50% less damage for 3 seconds and then 15% less damage taken while your shield is recharging. Optional Perks include In the Trenches (15% less damage taken when you are below your enemy) and Rear Guard (30% less damage taken when hit from behind).

For the shield I would use a Respark Regenerator (2.85 recharge delay and gives you 50% more health regeneration, making the health regen perk useless) or an Ironclad Fortifier (6% less damage taken while standing still, complementing your perks and also having the highest capacity in its category - you can have it refreshed by a teammate with a BMG or when you run out of shields you let Thick Skinned go on for its duration and then you send out a Decoy and wait for shields).

If you do use a high capacity shield you can also grab a weapon with a high crit modifier and grab Hunter's Stance (more crit damage while crouching, which you will be doing anyway) and Execution (which recharges your shields when you kill someone with a crit)

Lollie
04-21-2013, 04:58 AM
And cellular armor is like 15% damage reduction.

Cellular Armour is only 6% maxed.

Grant
04-21-2013, 05:01 AM
Grab Hunker Down, Fortified Stance, Cellular Armor, Thick Skinned, Failsafe, Fortitude. With this you take 30% less damage while standing still and crouching, with 225 more HP than usual. When your shield breaks you take 50% less damage for 3 seconds and then 15% less damage taken while your shield is recharging. Optional Perks include In the Trenches (15% less damage taken when you are below your enemy) and Rear Guard (30% less damage taken when hit from behind).

For the shield I would use a Respark Regenerator (2.85 recharge delay and gives you 50% more health regeneration, making the health regen perk useless) or an Ironclad Fortifier (6% less damage taken while standing still, complementing your perks and also having the highest capacity in its category - you can have it refreshed by a teammate with a BMG or when you run out of shields you let Thick Skinned go on for its duration and then you send out a Decoy and wait for shields).

If you do use a high capacity shield you can also grab a weapon with a high crit modifier and grab Hunter's Stance (more crit damage while crouching, which you will be doing anyway) and Execution (which recharges your shields when you kill someone with a crit)

That is some opinion and it is well received. Did you play with these perks? Can you tell us how did it work?

Rikishi
04-21-2013, 05:28 AM
I do play with the perks I mentioned, however since I am currently using the Respark which recharges fast I do not use Failsafe as I feel it will not be worth it.

Generally you want to use one high capacity weapon (such as an LMG or an AR) so you can clear the weaker enemies (bio/shock/fire nano effects help since they CC somewhat, you can also use a flash grenade, often the CC lasts long enough for my Respark shield to regenerate, which is nice).

The second weapon should be something precise with a strong crit multiplier (I use a Wolfhound pistol, modded it has a 5.2x crit multiplier now). This you will be using for stronger enemies and bosses.

I really like using the low cap, fast recharge Respark, the health regeneration bonus on it is pretty substantial though and you will probably need to search for one, but it is well worth it.

Cheggers
04-21-2013, 07:10 AM
My tanky set up is pretty god damn effective if I do say so my self.

Perks are Decoy as the EGO power.

Think skinned.
Detachment.
Failsafe.
Fortified Stance.
Execution.
Cellular Armor.
Insult to Injury.

Now these work wonders with my shield and shotgun only due to these to parts.

The shotgun is a VBI auto shotgun with a 29 round mag with the lifeleach purple nano effect that procs every 2-5 shots that heal me up for a nice amount and a 10% reduce EGO power recharge time on a full reload.
And the shield is a Ironclad regenerator that regens 25% health. I can pretty much stand still and tank any pve boss with out dying and to not die I just dodge^^

Now THe Ironclad only recharges 10% per a second but that is no worrys due to failsafe that reduce's damage by 15% when recharging and this works due to the nano effect of my gun boast the amount of shield energy I get back so this makes up for the 10% ps recharge if the shield is not recharging soon enough. As it has a high amount of shield energy I can soak more damage and every thing works together to just make it work.

Now 2 perks I would like to add once I get to 4000 ego level what is a long way away, would be.

Fortitude.
Emergency Ammo.

Grant
04-21-2013, 07:56 AM
My tanky set up is pretty god damn effective if I do say so my self.

Perks are Decoy as the EGO power.

Think skinned.
Detachment.
Failsafe.
Fortified Stance.
Execution.
Cellular Armor.
Insult to Injury.

Now these work wonders with my shield and shotgun only due to these to parts.

The shotgun is a VBI auto shotgun with a 29 round mag with the lifeleach purple nano effect that procs every 2-5 shots that heal me up for a nice amount and a 10% reduce EGO power recharge time on a full reload.
And the shield is a Ironclad regenerator that regens 25% health. I can pretty much stand still and tank any pve boss with out dying and to not die I just dodge^^

Now THe Ironclad only recharges 10% per a second but that is no worrys due to failsafe that reduce's damage by 15% when recharging and this works due to the nano effect of my gun boast the amount of shield energy I get back so this makes up for the 10% ps recharge if the shield is not recharging soon enough. As it has a high amount of shield energy I can soak more damage and every thing works together to just make it work.

Now 2 perks I would like to add once I get to 4000 ego level what is a long way away, would be.

Fortitude.
Emergency Ammo.

Yes, that's also seems like good solution. Still do you think that Detachment is a worthy perk? And what about Rear Guard - I don't get my enemies behind.

Also what about PVP? Does this really works?

dirtyklingon
04-21-2013, 08:00 AM
there is no taunts, and the ability to tank in defiance, that is soak damage while holding aggro, is far far less than in gw2 which supposedly is anti trinity. lol.

healing is in a similar place to that. i mean there are BMGs but they're not exactly what you;d except ever from other so called mmo shooters in terms of power.


(yes i know that it's perfectly doable to be a proper tank in gw2)

Grant
04-21-2013, 08:03 AM
there is no taunts, and the ability to tank in defiance, that is soak damage while holding aggro, is far far less than in gw2 which supposedly is anti trinity. lol.

healing is in a similar place to that. i mean there are BMGs but they're not exactly what you;d except ever from other so called mmo shooters in terms of power.


(yes i know that it's perfectly doable to be a proper tank in gw2)

Yeah well, it's more like you rush first, then use decoy, then dodge, dodge, dodge and tell everyone - see? I'm tanking :P

Haha well it's far away from tanking in other games, still it is possible, it is functional, it needs to be figured out.

dirtyklingon
04-21-2013, 08:04 AM
Yeah well, it's more like you rush first, then use decoy, then dodge, dodge, dodge and tell everyone - see? I'm tanking :P

Haha well it's far away from tanking in other games, still it is possible, it is functional, it needs to be figured out.

doing that just detracts from group effectivity. there's nothing in the game that really asks for a tank at all. even to a higher degree than gw2.


trying to be a classic tank in the sense of soaking aggro just slows your entire group down in this game.

Grant
04-21-2013, 08:09 AM
doing that just detracts from group effectivity. there's nothing in the game that really asks for a tank at all. even to a higher degree than gw2.


trying to be a classic tank in the sense of soaking aggro just slows your entire group down in this game.

Not at all. When other party members don't have to watch to be shot down, they can remove enemies quickly. They are not running around, they just take position and cover you. That is my experience, but it's up to your team of course.

Still I agree there is not pure tanking here like Defiance there is not pure MMORPG.

Cheggers
04-21-2013, 08:14 AM
Well its not about being a tank as such with what other MMO's are but the ability to tank hits dirtyklingon in my eyes.

Detachment works in pve due to things die fast for the most part so I can kill a mob every 3-5 seconds and means I take lless damage for this friends while picking the next target.

But in pvp would swap out a lot of these things as tanking hits don't work with the way pvp is. Speed is key for the most part.
For pvp would drop Fortified Stance and Failsafe change the shield to a Respark and take Displacement Field and Escape Artist.

Of course this is just me and it works for me as it fits my play style. As speed is the best tanking tool when it comes to shotgun stealthers I find. As soon as they hit me once normaly I can stay alive for the first hit and get pretty much 45% run speed for 8 seconds and this gives me time for the respark to start charging and find the target.

Cheggers
04-21-2013, 08:17 AM
doing that just detracts from group effectivity. there's nothing in the game that really asks for a tank at all. even to a higher degree than gw2.


trying to be a classic tank in the sense of soaking aggro just slows your entire group down in this game.

Well tbh I always score top in CO-OP with my tankie build so that is not so much true. As it allows me to fire for longer with out having to move until reloading.

DeMoted
04-21-2013, 08:18 AM
Killing **** quickly is the best tank in this game. All about crit spots people.

dirtyklingon
04-21-2013, 08:21 AM
Well tbh I always score top in CO-OP with my tankie build so that is not so much true. As it allows me to fire for longer with out having to move until reloading.

i was referring specifically to his scenario of usign decoy and then grabbing aggro from his decoy when it despawns and then spamming rolling instead of dpsing.


in this game the most effective group everyone is dpsing while passing around aggro and no set roles.


tbh idon't think teh aggro system allows for someone to just straight up soak aggro anyway. not from what i've seen.

Niurok
04-21-2013, 08:26 AM
There is no tank! What people refer to as tanking in this game to me is how much dps a player can dish out as fast as possible more crits gets more aggro. I should know those hellbug wasp boss's target me enough as is. But I got to keep dishing out the damage to get as high score as possible even if I couldn't make every arkfall. But to me in a group I would be using Cloak and not Overcharge or Decoy so that I lower my aggro and let mobs attack others ;D

Katosu
04-21-2013, 08:40 AM
Hello! I'm not sure if anyone's really stated this yet, as I mostly read the first page (Sorry guys!), but I will say that I run as a Tank-like spec as well, soaking up a good amount of damage and plowing through enemies.

The biggest thing is to be the first into combat. The initial threat aggro of being the first-strike is a huge surge that'll pull a lot of the enemies that would focus on a squishier target right onto you.

For my spec, I took the following skills:

Skill - Decoy (This is great for pulling threat off someone, as the Decoy itself will often have max-threat instantly on deplay and give you a chance to pull the enemy back to you)

Perks (In order of importance to me in what I have equipped):
Cellular Armor : 6% damage reduction
Regeneration: 3% Bonus HP Regen
Preparedness: 9% of clip reloads per second on off-weapon.
Fortified Stance: 15% less damage while standing still
Hunker Down: 9% less damage while crouched
Detatchment: 12% less damage on kill for 3 seconds
Thick Skinned: 50% damage reduction on shield break for 3 seconds, CD: 15s
Materialize: 9 second CD reduction on Decoy

You might wonder why I rate Preparedness so high. Using my shotgun, my Assault Rifle will often get fully reloaded while I use my shotty. Likewise, it takes about 2 clips for my Shotgun to fully reload while using my Assault rifle. What this means is you can switch back and forth between two weapons to maximize your attack power, and you should -never- find yourself Face-to-Face with an enemy without ammo.

Shotguns tend to stagger enemies when taking a point-blank critical to the face. So I prefer to have ammo -at all times- : If you're in the front line, you -really- don't have time to reload that often.

In terms of gear, I'd advise taking a low-delay moderate capacity shield. The faster it starts to recharge, the better.

Well, this is just advice from a fellow who also enjoys tanking and has built his character thusly. If any of you ever want to run an instance with me sometime, I'd love to have you along!

Edit-In:

I'd like to add, I sometimes remove Hunker Down / Fortified Stance in favor of some of the lower-rated skills. It really depends on what kind of enemy I'm fighting if I use those skills or not, as a lot of time I'll be on the move / getting a good amount of kills, so I might take the 'On-Kill' perk or even the -Delay for Decoy. You just have to find what really 'works' for you there.

Grant
04-21-2013, 08:49 AM
Hello! I'm not sure if anyone's really stated this yet, as I mostly read the first page (Sorry guys!), but I will say that I run as a Tank-like spec as well, soaking up a good amount of damage and plowing through enemies.

The biggest thing is to be the first into combat. The initial threat aggro of being the first-strike is a huge surge that'll pull a lot of the enemies that would focus on a squishier target right onto you.

For my spec, I took the following skills:

Skill - Decoy (This is great for pulling threat off someone, as the Decoy itself will often have max-threat instantly on deplay and give you a chance to pull the enemy back to you)

Perks (In order of importance to me in what I have equipped):
Cellular Armor : 6% damage reduction
Regeneration: 3% Bonus HP Regen
Preparedness: 9% of clip reloads per second on off-weapon.
Fortified Stance: 15% less damage while standing still
Hunker Down: 9% less damage while crouched
Detatchment: 12% less damage on kill for 3 seconds
Thick Skinned: 50% damage reduction on shield break for 3 seconds, CD: 15s
Materialize: 9 second CD reduction on Decoy

You might wonder why I rate Preparedness so high. Using my shotgun, my Assault Rifle will often get fully reloaded while I use my shotty. Likewise, it takes about 2 clips for my Shotgun to fully reload while using my Assault rifle. What this means is you can switch back and forth between two weapons to maximize your attack power, and you should -never- find yourself Face-to-Face with an enemy without ammo.

Shotguns tend to stagger enemies when taking a point-blank critical to the face. So I prefer to have ammo -at all times- : If you're in the front line, you -really- don't have time to reload that often.

In terms of gear, I'd advise taking a low-delay moderate capacity shield. The faster it starts to recharge, the better.

Well, this is just advice from a fellow who also enjoys tanking and has built his character thusly. If any of you ever want to run an instance with me sometime, I'd love to have you along!

That is nice. Still do you really use Hunker Down? Personally I don't use crouch so often.

Katosu
04-21-2013, 09:19 AM
That is nice. Still do you really use Hunker Down? Personally I don't use crouch so often.

I added an edit-in after the fact. It's true - I might not always use Hunker Down / Fortified Stance. Mostly because I'm constantly on-the-move. I will admit when I have Fortified Stance / Hunker Down equipped, I tend to be using Assault Rifles more and crouching as I move.

I still haven't done enough testing to see if Hunker Down / Fortified Stance stack, though. It requires testing :3

Alcohol Fueled Brewtality
04-21-2013, 09:31 AM
Yes, that's also seems like good solution. Still do you think that Detachment is a worthy perk? And what about Rear Guard - I don't get my enemies behind.

Also what about PVP? Does this really works?

Detachment is a very, very solid Perk in PvE.

I mean, you're always killing things.

It is probably the best "On Kill"-Perk for tanking. I just wish I knew if it stacks Juggernaut...