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View Full Version : People's s sense of instant gratification and entitlement will kill this game!



Saboteur 6
04-22-2013, 07:50 AM
Because I'm tired of the MULTITUDE of threads ranting about how Defiance is doomed and "Fix this Trion or else because wahhhhh!" In this day of fast food, TV on demand, and access to social media / Internet where you've been conditioned to think that a status update is breaking news, a lot of people have fallen under the impression that the world actually revolves around them and that they are indeed special little snow flakes whose opinion is of the highest pressing importance. Let me tell you a secret... it's really not. So the next time you feel obligated to rant about pvp, keycodes, loot drops, episodic missions, and whatever other topic you feel like spewing across the forums, do us all a favor and:

1. Get a piece of paper
2. Physically write down your particular grievance.
3. Roll the paper into a tube.
4. Stick it in your ear.

Thunderclap
04-22-2013, 08:05 AM
Your Hypocrisy is delicious!

Saboteur 6
04-22-2013, 08:08 AM
Your Hypocrisy is delicious!


Agreed, I am exceptionally tasty.

nosworc
04-22-2013, 08:11 AM
So we should all just turn off our computers and turn this forum into a ghost town then unless we have something positive to say?

Saboteur 6
04-22-2013, 08:16 AM
So we should all just turn off our computers and turn this forum into a ghost town then unless we have something positive to say?

Not at all but, a little self restraint and a modicum of civility before posting would be a good start.

nosworc
04-22-2013, 08:19 AM
Not at all but, a little self restraint and a modicum of civility before posting would be a good start.

The majority of posts i have seen saying negative things about this game so far have been very well put together, it's the fan boys that seem to be the ones jumping down peoples throats if they don't like what they read.

Justin CarMichael
04-22-2013, 08:19 AM
A thread complaining about other people complaining is very Meta. Maybe not World Peace level of Meta... but still.. Very Meta.

RobGotBanned
04-22-2013, 08:22 AM
The majority of posts i have seen saying negative things about this game so far have been very well put together, it's the fan boys that seem to be the ones jumping down peoples throats if they don't like what they read.

It seems to be people like you calling others "fanboys", because they disagree with the complaint, that annoy them into full negativity. Most of these "well put together" posts have good debates from either side actually.

Eital
04-22-2013, 08:24 AM
Not at all but, a little self restraint and a modicum of civility before posting would be a good start.

The problem is that it doesn't matter how you criticize a game. You'll get eaten up by the fans anyway.

Fans also harm the games they like. Their inability to acknowledge problems and zero tolerance to criticism of any kind.

Cynical Jester
04-22-2013, 08:24 AM
So we should all just turn off our computers and turn this forum into a ghost town then unless we have something positive to say?

@nosworc No, You should make use of the suggestion thread and contribute.. Report Bugs you find using the report bug function in game or in the bug forum thread. Make your post constructive...

To Everyone else:

If you simply have nothing more to say then... this game sucks trollollol.. then just don't play it and don't post.

If all you can do is say this game is dead or ask if this game is dead... just move along...

When stupid statements go unchecked by the community and disinformation is spread about.. it can hurt the game to people that just simply read others opinions all day..

Just look at these forums.. The vocal majority are the whiners, doomsayers etc.. So.. if you read the forum it feels like people really aren't enjoying the game and it really is dying... But its not!! Not even close...

Trion has some big balls to come out with a formal apology like they did... They are always making moves, keeping tabs, updating stuff, asking us questions, answering questions on twitter etc... MOST people don't bother to look... They care about the game and want it to succeed that is obvious... If you do not like it then it's probably not for you... Not many game companies get involved with their customers as much as Trion has/is.

Why sit in a forum all day of a game you truly dislike and complain about it; Without ever really making use of the suggestion / bug forums.

I'm starting to believe more and more that the ones that spread this dis-information or simply "troll" the game are people involved with other games perhaps losing subs or taking hits due to this game... I have no other explanation for it...

I've bought games I didn't like .. but it was my choice and my fault.. I had the opportunity to do all the research in the world on them. I could watch someone else play it on YouTube first hand all day.. or on twitch or something else and know EXACTLY what I was getting and what to expect.... I didn't call their company and scream at them... I didn't go to their forums and troll them.. I simply moved on.. MY MISTAKE...

Damn.. I wonder what it would of been like for the E.T developers on the Atari if they had the social mediums we do now back then... just woh..

Cutlass Jack
04-22-2013, 08:25 AM
To be fair, the game's overall quest design seems based around people with incredibly short attention spans. So this attitude shouldn't really surprise anyone.

Cynical Jester
04-22-2013, 08:28 AM
To be fair, the game's overall quest design seems based around people with incredibly short attention spans. So this attitude shouldn't really surprise anyone.

How do you figure?

GlavinChris
04-22-2013, 08:28 AM
"Stick it in your ear" Yes!!! I got a chuckle just out of the list alone, thank you!!!

Cutlass Jack
04-22-2013, 08:30 AM
How do you figure?

The majority of the quests can be done in under a few minutes, you are pointed at all objectives, tracking the actual plot is not required, and you're only allowed to do one at a time.

Crunchyblack
04-22-2013, 08:32 AM
the instant gratification / narcissistic generation is going to wreck a whole lot more than the game...just wait until they grow up.

I can see it now "why don't we just make a law that makes everyone rich!!!"

NeverMiss
04-22-2013, 08:32 AM
Truuuuuuuuuuuu

Cynical Jester
04-22-2013, 08:36 AM
The majority of the quests can be done in under a few minutes, you are pointed at all objectives, and you're only allowed to do one at a time.

Who cares if they can be done in under a few mins.. their is tons of them and the combat ones are typically fun... Most games you are pointed towards the objectives...

The ones that aren't combat kind of get you involved with the world (some times).. Like the data recorders with bits of info.. or just getting to know about the fauna and various other things...

It sounds like you came from an MMORPG which this is not...

The last one could change.. have you made a suggestion about it? To me its not a big deal though.. you can fast travel close to most of the missions....

Also, EQ only had ONE quest.. Still my fav MMORPG (When it was in its prime and before the expansions killed it(To Me) 10-13 years ago?)

Also.. I played that game for 7 years.. They killed that game to me and many many many other people.. My whole guild quit... We didn't goto the forums once!

Edit: I also don't think most people bother to stay and kill the mobs that spawn typically after you get to an objective.. they just try to avoid them and hold E and move on... Which is a problem with the player not the game... Your choice. Stay and fight or run like pansies.

Tgreen
04-22-2013, 08:36 AM
[...] lot of people have fallen under the impression that the world actually revolves around them and that they are indeed special little snow flakes whose opinion is of the highest pressing importance. Let me tell you a secret... it's really not.

I really like how the actual story missions in this game actually cater towards the 'special snowflake phenomenon'.
How only you and no one else can defeat the bad guys and how even in co-ops your character presses every botton, no matter which player actually used it.

And yes, the self entitlement many people have simply stem from misguided parenting ... dear people who want to be parents one day, your children are not little princes or princesses and they're not the devil that need to be put to justice with belt straps either, your children are normal people (just smaller) and for the love of the future of mankind, please treat your offspring as such.


Agreed, I am exceptionally tasty.

I do not want to know anything more about this ....


The majority of posts i have seen saying negative things about this game so far have been very well put together [...]

Go to a random thread concerning Nim. Read a few posts. Come back here and repeat that with a straight face.

CapN CooK 420
04-22-2013, 08:37 AM
The majority of posts i have seen saying negative things about this game so far have been very well put together, it's the fan boys that seem to be the ones jumping down peoples throats if they don't like what they read.

Smartest post of the day! +1 logic point!
People who complain are really stating the crap parts of the game and the fan boys jump in and cause it to explode always.

To the maker of the thread. You are one big hypacrit.

Cutlass Jack
04-22-2013, 08:42 AM
Who cares if they can be done in under a few mins.. their is tons of them and the combat ones are typically fun... Most games you are pointed towards the objectives...

The ones that aren't combat kind of get you involved with the world (some times).. Like the data recorders with bits of info.. or just getting to know about the fauna and various other things...

It sounds like you came from an MMORPG which this is not...

The last one could change.. have you made a suggestion about it? To me its not a big deal though.. you can fast travel close to most of the missions....

Also, EQ only had ONE quest.. Still my fav MMORPG (When it was in its prime and before the expansions killed it(To Me) 10-13 years ago?)

Also.. I played that game for 7 years.. They killed that game to me and many many many other people.. My whole guild quit... We didn't goto the forums once!

Edit: I also don't think most people bother to stay and kill the mobs that spawn typically after you get to an objective.. they just try to avoid them and hold E and move on... Which is a problem with the player not the game... Your choice. Stay and fight or run like pansies.

You wasted alot of time on what you thought was a criticism. It was not. It was exactly what I said: The quest system is designed around people with short attention spans who like immediate gratification. Thats neither good nor bad, but its easy to see why these people would also blow through all available content and then come to the forums demanding more instant gratification.

That was the only point I was making. Personally I enjoy the game quite a bit.

Soren
04-22-2013, 08:45 AM
What, you mean it takes TIME to fix issues with anything in general?

LIES, I'M GOING TO GO COMPLAIN RIGHT NOW ABOUT IT.

Seriously though, the game isn't even a month old and they've been doing their best to fix and adjust things in a fairly swift manner. Yet a vocal minority seems to enjoy hating on the game regardless, even though they never have to spend a penny past their initial purchase to where they can just, y'know, leave the game and then come back later if they really want to see how it went.

But honestly it seems like most of the critics don't want to even bother with the game, yet feel the need to tell everyone that their opinions need to be taken to heart so everyone dislikes the game as much as they do.

I don't really understand that mentality, but maybe that's because I don't bother with something if it's no longer fun to me.

Cynical Jester
04-22-2013, 08:50 AM
What, you mean it takes TIME to fix issues with anything in general?

LIES, I'M GOING TO GO COMPLAIN RIGHT NOW ABOUT IT.

Seriously though, the game isn't even a month old and they've been doing their best to fix and adjust things in a fairly swift manner. Yet a vocal minority seems to enjoy hating on the game regardless, even though they never have to spend a penny past their initial purchase to where they can just, y'know, leave the game and then come back later if they really want to see how it went.

But honestly it seems like most of the critics don't want to even bother with the game, yet feel the need to tell everyone that their opinions need to be taken to heart so everyone dislikes the game as much as they do.

I don't really understand that mentality, but maybe that's because I don't bother with something if it's no longer fun to me.

^ The short version of what I've been trying to say this whole time.

Edit: Almost brought a tear to my eye

Raikon
04-22-2013, 09:10 AM
So we should all just turn off our computers and turn this forum into a ghost town then unless we have something positive to say?

No, its just that there are many individuals who blatantly haven't got 2 amoebas to rub together for a brain, simply being sheep.
Its the forum lemmings syndrome.
Some people regardless of what they feel will go with the majority.
Defiance does attract more than the usual though, maybe because its the first big venture of an MMO on consoles.
Console junkies do mainly look upon any shooter as CoD or BF.
They look at this and cant understand what the hell they need to do to get the best out of the game.
So go with the majority and bash the game at every opportunity.
Yes it does have major problems, it is broken in many ways.
But to those who didn't play World of Warcraft at the outset they haven't a clue.
WoW was full of terrible problems and it was taken down for days.
Its 8 years old and still has major problems.
People here think Trion should have a perfect game out immediately with no flaws at all.
Seriously.
Its these people who are not worth a reply too as there s no point.
To others who are wondering about Defiance, stay with it.
It will get better.
Honestly:confused:

Schnibbly
04-22-2013, 09:13 AM
I wish the Ps3 could have fixed voip and pursuits, I think Sledgehammer70 is too busy playing to find out that the Ps3 is now the worst version by far

Ataraxia
04-22-2013, 09:15 AM
This game needs all the criticism it can get so devs know what needs improvement and what doesn't.

Conformism kills games, not criticism.

Soren
04-22-2013, 09:16 AM
^ The short version of what I've been trying to say this whole time.

Edit: Almost brought a tear to my eye

I think the saddest thing is most of the people spouting crap against Defiance seem to just ignore the fact that the team has been legitimately working hard to fix/improve things. I don't think most MMO companies would take down the server on a Saturday night to fix some massive issues; instead they'd just wait until Monday morning when they come back to their offices, realize "OH NO! THE GAME IS BORKED!" and then take the servers down all day in order to try and fix it. Meanwhile the Defiance team worked on fixing it over the course of Saturday night and into Sunday morning.


Sure, there are still issues. Sure, this game is targeted more toward the console crowd than the PC MMO crowd (to where it seems the PC MMOer crowd is the most vocal/whiny). But at least they're responding and doing what they can in a fairly good amount of time compared to past MMOs (since everyone seems to enjoy comparing the first legitimate MMOTPS to all of the MMORPGs).

And honestly, Defiance's launch is hardly as bad as some of the past MMOs. I didn't get the game until about a year later, but I heard World of Warcraft had some massive issues in its first few months.

I get that some criticism is good. That's called CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. Vehemently hating on the game for no reason and treating it like it and the developers are a hunk of garbage is a completely different thing. I know Trion (at least with RIFT) looks at all the different complaints/criticisms and it's helpful regardless, but the whole "I hate this game so I'm going to complain and tear other people down just to make sure that I get my baseless revenge" thing is really not helping.

Myria
04-22-2013, 09:20 AM
I think the saddest thing is most of the people spouting crap against Defiance seem to just ignore the fact that the team has been legitimately working hard to fix/improve things.

Those would be the things that were broken in Alpha and in all three Betas, reported until people were blue in the face, and made it into launch anyway?

Archangel
04-22-2013, 09:46 AM
Smartest post of the day! +1 logic point!
People who complain are really stating the crap parts of the game and the fan boys jump in and cause it to explode always.

To the maker of the thread. You are one big hypacrit.

There is a time and place for complaints and reporting issues.

Issues are things wrong with the current state of the game. Bugs, Glitchs, Hackers, Broken content.

Complaints need to be posted in the suggestion thread with an actualy suggestion. This the problem with the majority of the negetive posts.

People are willing to state their opinion on how the game is in its current state but they won't come up with an alternative solution for the game devs to consider.

Its just flame backed by baseless opinion with no relevance other than, "I think its stupid."

Defiance is a new title with a new engine and a whole new way to run a MMOTPS through multiple consoles. No one else has done this besides FFXI. So a lot of people come into this game with an idea of how they think its going to play out. Some adjust to whats given to them and work around it. Others just complain about how their expectations were not met and after hours of gaming they are unhappy.

Take those hours of unhappy gaming and create a constructive post on the suggestion thread vs's trying to rally a small minority of vocal subjects to an opinion that maybe you alone only share.

I haven't found much to complain about because im still enjoying the game even with its differences. Doesn't make me a fan boy and doesn't make me blind to the flaws of the game. I just have more patience and respect to the developers and express my opinions in a polite manner in the right location.

Not in the general forums. When people post there instead of the correct location it just goes to show how little they understand the concept of suggestions vs's flaming.

If you are going to be respectful. Use the provided avenues to do so. If your going to ignore whats been provided and just do it your way be damned to the rest... well you are going to be labeled a flammer and a cry baby and to be honest. You are one.

I have expressed my concerns about the game in the suggestion thread and left it at that. I would hope others can do the same and be respectful.

Archangel
04-22-2013, 09:51 AM
This game needs all the criticism it can get so devs know what needs improvement and what doesn't.

Conformism kills games, not criticism.

Its called constructive criticism and that can be done in the suggestion thread.

What your talking about it blatant criticism or crying with no provided alternative. Just "It sucks.Whos with me!" mentality.

You can criticize and do it in a matter which can be respected. The individuals who show no respect to the people who have worked really hard on this game and continue to work hard then don't deserve respect back. Their opinions become null and void.

Do onto others as you would have others do onto yourself.

Show some respect and compassion and patience and you will get all these 10 fold in return.

Saboteur 6
04-22-2013, 09:55 AM
This game needs all the criticism it can get so devs know what needs improvement and what doesn't.

Conformism kills games, not criticism.

This is certainly true but there is a SIGNIFICANT difference in constructive criticism (which is identifying a problem in the context of searching for a solution) and outright whining / complaining under the guise of "feedback" . Often "providing criticism" is merely a rationalization for "saying whatever I feel because my complaining is important!" type of nonsense that is the majority of Internet forums as a whole, let alone here.

Archangel
04-22-2013, 10:01 AM
It comes down to showing respect imo.

If you want to share your opinion and offer an alternative and can do this in the right manner and profession. Then your opinion will be seen as sincere and respectful and you might just get shown respect back.

But if your sharing a opinion to just complain without respect or suggestions than your just that. A cry baby that deserves no respect back in return. Because how can someone have a open dialog with one side of the party is only saying whats wrong but not telling us "why its wrong" or "how they would fix whats wrong."

Archangel
04-22-2013, 10:02 AM
Im all about feedback but do it in the proper avenue

Saboteur 6
04-22-2013, 10:04 AM
Those would be the things that were broken in Alpha and in all three Betas, reported until people were blue in the face, and made it into launch anyway?
Identifying a problem is the easy part, anyone can do that. Anyone that's ever attempted something requiring skill, time, coordination, teamwork, resources, etc., understands that things don't "just happen right now because I want them to". Or to use a sports metaphor, anyone that's ever played baseball can tell you to "just go up there and hit a homerun". It's the actual DOING it that makes the difference. So again, identifying a problem is the easy part and... with something as convoluted as coding a MMO there are NO small problems.

Shismar
04-22-2013, 10:05 AM
Not at all but, a little self restraint and a modicum of civility before posting would be a good start.
How about using that advice yourself?

jvp
04-22-2013, 10:06 AM
I would have guessed the plethora of bugs would kill this game, but I guess we all have a different opinion on it.

Ninno20
04-22-2013, 10:09 AM
Best thing iv hear'd today is someone crying about them being able to jump. That took the bacon, had me in stitches for hours, im practically a sown together rag doll now. Iv just turned to simple one liners to show the stupidity of most peoples annoyances, because that's all they are.

People get annoyed about a simple thing everyone can do in the game, shotguns, jumping, cloak, leveling systems etc.

People need to step out of there boxes and realize there is more then one way to do things, and everything doesn't have to be familiar or made for there convenience.

Malloci
04-22-2013, 10:13 AM
LOL, this game is funded by players instant gratification and entitlement just like every other "free to play" game that draws the majority of its income from gambling boxes.

Infact it relies even more on it than other games with gambling boxes like say swtor, in swtor the gambling boxes drop drop fluff, in this game gambling boxes are the MAIN source of what little gear progression there is in the game.

Anim
04-22-2013, 10:15 AM
People dont want instant gratification, people want to be able to work towards it, as a group and have a sense of accomplishment. Right now this game is all about instant gratification, you're already as good as you can be when you start and you're so amazing you can do the whole game with your starter setup.

So, we're after the exact opposite of what you're complaining about, we want a reason to put a long term amount of effort in to the game and become involved in the world: http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?43921-Concerns-amp-Constructive-thoughts-The-big-BIG-post.

Hochstetler
04-22-2013, 10:15 AM
Because I'm tired of the MULTITUDE of threads ranting about how Defiance is doomed and "Fix this Trion or else because wahhhhh!" In this day of fast food, TV on demand, and access to social media / Internet where you've been conditioned to think that a status update is breaking news, a lot of people have fallen under the impression that the world actually revolves around them and that they are indeed special little snow flakes whose opinion is of the highest pressing importance. Let me tell you a secret... it's really not. So the next time you feel obligated to rant about pvp, keycodes, loot drops, episodic missions, and whatever other topic you feel like spewing across the forums, do us all a favor and:

1. Get a piece of paper
2. Physically write down your particular grievance.
3. Roll the paper into a tube.
4. Stick it in your ear.

I agree, I've always felt that forums hurt games more then help them.