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View Full Version : Im not sure why Defiance is getting so much flack.



Isturi
04-22-2013, 09:04 AM
For a brand new MMO shooter or whatever people want to call it. By standard definition it is a MMO. Also for a game that is fun to play yes admittedly there were set backs and bugs that needed to be iron out, but lets face it name one MMO to date that has not had a rocky sail from launch. I just don't understand why all the flack that Defiance is getting. Everywhere from "Angry" youtube reviews to much pointed out average to low scores from game magazine and reviews. To be fair I have seen very positive reviews that don't seem to get the attention as the negative reviews.

I personally feel Defiance is prob one of the best if not the best MMO that I have played in a long time, and I am a ex WoW player of 6 years who have left that game for good, and yes Defiance is one of the reasons why I will not be going back to that game. I love Defiance. I love the story line. it is a breath of fresh air. I am not sure why people choose to blast threw the story line right at launch. My only reason on that is they prob had a speed hacks to get them threw the game real fast just so they can come on and say Defiance has lack of content. Why do people bash Defiance? I don't know, and personally I am feed up with it. For me it is a great MMO and I plan on playing it for a long time to come.

TY Trion for your effort in making a great game. Also TY Sy Fy for a fantastic show.;)

Lamerian
04-22-2013, 09:10 AM
For a brand new MMO shooter or whatever people want to call it. By standard definition it is a MMO. Also for a game that is fun to play yes admittedly there were set backs and bugs that needed to be iron out, but lets face it name one MMO to date that has not had a rocky sail from launch. I just don't understand why all the flack that Defiance is getting. Everywhere from "Angry" youtube reviews to much pointed out average to low scores from game magazine and reviews. To be fair I have seen very positive reviews that don't seem to get the attention as the negative reviews.

I personally feel Defiance is prob one of the best if not the best MMO that I have played in a long time, and I am a ex WoW player of 6 years who have left that game for good, and yes Defiance is one of the reasons why I will not be going back to that game. I love Defiance. I love the story line. it is a breath of fresh air. I am not sure why people choose to blast threw the story line right at launch. My only reason on that is they prob had a speed hacks to get them threw the game real fast just so they can come on and say Defiance has lack of content. Why do people bash Defiance? I don't know, and personally I am feed up with it. For me it is a great MMO and I plan on playing it for a long time to come.

TY Trion for your effort in making a great game. Also TY Sy Fy for a fantastic show.;)

Most likely from people who don't want WoW to lose its dominance. Defiance is definitely a breath of fresh air. When ESO comes out, I will be able to enjoy the fantasy MMO genre again.

Kommissar Kaede
04-22-2013, 09:11 AM
The games alright. Its a solid, mediocre, MMOTPS.

Sadly, we live in a day an age where if its not "great" it is automatically "terrible."

"If you're not first, you're last."

Cavadus
04-22-2013, 09:14 AM
It's been a rocky launch and Defiance lacks the most basic of MMO tropes (player market, mail system, decent chat system, player storage, an actual social hub, et cetera).

What it does it does quite well. Hopefully the devs will get better with patches and we'll start seeing fundamental MMO systems make their way into the game.

Mourneblade
04-22-2013, 09:31 AM
First off, I'll start by saying I enjoy the gun-play and cruising around in vehicles, the co-op missions (when they don't bug or glitch out and become impossible to complete), and the Ark Falls. The game has kept me fairly entertained the past few weeks since launch.

HOWEVER!

To say this game is anything more than mediocre at best would be lying. The fact is, the story is shallow, the voice acting can be pretty atrocious. The story characters aren't very memorable and outside of "in-game" cut-scenes, NPC characters mouths do not move when they speak. Grouping with friends is an act of futility and bugs out more often than not, resulting in not being able to phase with a friend, or a disappearing friends list altogether. Inventory items vanish for seemingly no reason other than it being equipped. Entire side missions (up until this week) had been removed entirely. Weapon mods often-times do the exact opposite of what the tool tip indicates, making your weapon worse than it was before the mod. Pursuits randomly reset, causing hours of grinding, or even general progression to be entirely for nothing.

Now, that's just the PVE issues.

In PVP, one word best summarizes the single major issue. HACKS.

People rampage through PVP missions with all manner of radar, auto-aim, and damage hacks which can result in very poor performance by legit players and causing many to cut out PVP entirely, and for good reason. Another issue is the lack of Capture and Hold matches STILL not implemented in the game, but is not nearly as bad as the hacking.

It's great that you enjoy the game, because I enjoy *some* aspects of it as well, and it is certainly different from most other MMOs. Unfortunately it is not a "great" game, or even a "good" game.

BTW, I'm also an ex-WoW player of 8 years, and can honestly say that Blizzard had it right, and Trion would do well to take some pointers from them with regards to achieving a true MMO experience. As it stands, Defiance is nothing more than a mild multiplayer experience with lots of things to shoot, and more bugs than any launch I've personally ever experienced. It still feels like a Beta, and as far as Betas go, Fire Fall is much better.

wonderhawk
04-22-2013, 09:33 AM
It's been a rocky launch and Defiance lacks the most basic of MMO tropes (player market, mail system, decent chat system, player storage, an actual social hub, et cetera).

What it does it does quite well. Hopefully the devs will get better with patches and we'll start seeing fundamental MMO systems make their way into the game.

Exactly, the only criticism I have thus far. Aside from this, it is indeed a great game. I will add though, I do wish we had a bit more lore to work with.

Koot
04-22-2013, 10:12 AM
The story characters aren't very memorable and outside of pre-rendered cut-scenes, NPC characters mouths do not move when they speak.


You have no idea what pre-rendered means, just stay quiet troll.

Technodude
04-22-2013, 10:19 AM
For a brand new MMO shooter or whatever people want to call it. By standard definition it is a MMO. Also for a game that is fun to play yes admittedly there were set backs and bugs that needed to be iron out, but lets face it name one MMO to date that has not had a rocky sail from launch. I just don't understand why all the flack that Defiance is getting. Everywhere from "Angry" youtube reviews to much pointed out average to low scores from game magazine and reviews. To be fair I have seen very positive reviews that don't seem to get the attention as the negative reviews.

I personally feel Defiance is prob one of the best if not the best MMO that I have played in a long time, and I am a ex WoW player of 6 years who have left that game for good, and yes Defiance is one of the reasons why I will not be going back to that game. I love Defiance. I love the story line. it is a breath of fresh air. I am not sure why people choose to blast threw the story line right at launch. My only reason on that is they prob had a speed hacks to get them threw the game real fast just so they can come on and say Defiance has lack of content. Why do people bash Defiance? I don't know, and personally I am feed up with it. For me it is a great MMO and I plan on playing it for a long time to come.

TY Trion for your effort in making a great game. Also TY Sy Fy for a fantastic show.;)

Yes every MMO has rocky launch but that doesn't mean that being hit by loss of progressions at 3 different ocassion and loss of items in inventory is not going to piss people off.

Your fake 'i am so surprised' was cute though.

Isturi
04-22-2013, 10:39 AM
Yes every MMO has rocky launch but that doesn't mean that being hit by loss of progressions at 3 different ocassion and loss of items in inventory is not going to piss people off.

Your fake 'i am so surprised' was cute though.



Er um nothing fake about my OP its very sincere.:cool:

Facade
04-22-2013, 10:41 AM
Most likely from people who don't want WoW to lose its dominance.

Not sure what if that was just a crack at WoW or what but WoW has nothing to fear from this game. Or any game TBH, other than Blizzards next MMO.

Technodude
04-22-2013, 10:44 AM
Most likely from people who don't want WoW to lose its dominance. Defiance is definitely a breath of fresh air. When ESO comes out, I will be able to enjoy the fantasy MMO genre again.

Stop sniffing glue and posting on forums. Its been 8 years now. WOW is not losing its dominance and its players has nothing to fear from any MMO especially Defiance.

Isturi
04-22-2013, 11:05 AM
Stop sniffing glue and posting on forums. Its been 8 years now. WOW is not losing its dominance and its players has nothing to fear from any MMO especially Defiance.

LOL Lamerian is right. Why are you so up in arms about his opinion? I agree with him only people that play WoW now are kids looking for a very simple MMO to play. These people put down other games like Defiance and it would not surprised me one bit if other MMO companies pay these people to put down Defiance or other new MMO games that will be coming out soon.:mad:

Mourneblade
04-22-2013, 11:08 AM
You have no idea what pre-rendered means, just stay quiet troll.

Seriously? Because i used the incorrect term describing the cut scene, that makes me a troll? I corrected my statement, and yes I know that pre-rendered means outside of the game engine and exclusively rendered CGI, whereas what I meant was game engine rendering. I got caught up in my little rant and typed out the wrong term.

I also find it interesting that the ONLY thing you chose to pick out of my entire post was the one minor error I made with a term. If misusing a term by mistake makes me a troll, then so be it, but before you go awarding yourself a point, explain to me how flaming someone for an opinion makes you any less of a troll? Explain why it seems to be your modus operandi to insult others repeatedly?

Based on your STELLAR 5 posts, most of which are direct insults toward people and outright trolling, perhaps you should stop trying to act sanctimonious and calling the kettle black. While you're at it, try to NOT act like a tool toward your fellow community members. That's asking quite a bit, I know, but indulge me.

Facade
04-22-2013, 11:13 AM
LOL Lamerian is right. Why are you so up in arms about his opinion? I agree with him only people that play WoW now are kids looking for a very simple MMO to play. These people put down other games like Defiance and it would not surprised me one bit if other MMO companies pay these people to put down Defiance or other new MMO games that will be coming out soon.:mad:

I myself don't play WoW anymore as I quit 5 years ago but to say that WoW has to fear anything at all from Defiance is laughable.

Ensu
04-22-2013, 11:17 AM
Stop sniffing glue and posting on forums. Its been 8 years now. WOW is not losing its dominance and its players has nothing to fear from any MMO especially Defiance.

Why would players from any MMO fear any other? I don't fear WoW, or its players. WoW will ultimately be replaced, when people's expectations of technology extend too far beyond WoW's ability to respond. Or, they'll create a new game engine to extend its lifespan beyond that limit.

I do wish people would stop talking about WoW-killers. It's pointless. It's like calling Apple the Microsoft-killer. It didn't, and it isn't. They're competitors, but they provide different services. Some people prefer/need one, and therefore use it.

Oceanhawk
04-22-2013, 11:23 AM
For a brand new MMO shooter or whatever people want to call it. By standard definition it is a MMO. Also for a game that is fun to play yes admittedly there were set backs and bugs that needed to be iron out, but lets face it name one MMO to date that has not had a rocky sail from launch. I just don't understand why all the flack that Defiance is getting. Everywhere from "Angry" youtube reviews to much pointed out average to low scores from game magazine and reviews. To be fair I have seen very positive reviews that don't seem to get the attention as the negative reviews.

I personally feel Defiance is prob one of the best if not the best MMO that I have played in a long time, and I am a ex WoW player of 6 years who have left that game for good, and yes Defiance is one of the reasons why I will not be going back to that game. I love Defiance. I love the story line. it is a breath of fresh air. I am not sure why people choose to blast threw the story line right at launch. My only reason on that is they prob had a speed hacks to get them threw the game real fast just so they can come on and say Defiance has lack of content. Why do people bash Defiance? I don't know, and personally I am feed up with it. For me it is a great MMO and I plan on playing it for a long time to come.

TY Trion for your effort in making a great game. Also TY Sy Fy for a fantastic show.;)

You are an example of why Publishers force games to market early. They cash in on people like you that are willing to be happy with shoddy game play and uninspired design decisions. They get their money back quick and then abandon the game developers to clean up their mess.

If people instead demanded the practice to change then we might actually see an improvement. But until the gaming community finds a way to cure cranial rectumitis like the OP's case, then things will never improve.

Mogar
04-22-2013, 11:25 AM
Wow... the forums are almost as buggy.... Anyhow (second time writing this)
I have seen the launch ("going gold") on over 10 MMO's / Online games from Ultima Online to this. I want to say this so people can understand it... not one game has had a solid launch. NOT ONE.
World of Warcraft (the game that everyone says is great) when it went gold had more bugs than this game and many others COMBINED. Their Beta team was not very good at looking for them and they let the populace find them. Players getting stuck in trees, instances combing in with others, NPC's disapearing, Quest mobs never spawning, instakilling deathblows from level 1 mobs, PVP (when it came out) "bugs" where people could become invisable, unkillable mobs, being able to round up every mob in a zone and flood towns with agro creatures, rubberbanding, falling through the world etc etc etc...
It takes alot of work to get games to go right, and bugs will be there because people are not perfect and programs are written by people.
Have I gotten upset with the game? Yes.
Am I still playing? Yes.
Will I continue? Yes.

Aurora Skye
04-22-2013, 11:34 AM
the difference is: other games rocky launches were met with round the clock hotfixes and patches to correct the bugs. So far our patches have only created MORE issues and taken away content. We've patched backward from awful launch to mediocre beta.

I have a hard time believing that anyone still defending this unpolished turd of a game has played it for longer than 2-3 days.

Mourneblade
04-22-2013, 11:35 AM
You are an example of why Publishers force games to market early. They cash in on people like you that are willing to be happy with shoddy game play and uninspired design decisions. They get their money back quick and then abandon the game developers to clean up their mess.

If people instead demanded the practice to change then we might actually see an improvement. But until the gaming community finds a way to cure cranial rectumitis like the OP's case, then things will never improve.

Agreed. I think the types of gamers who settle for the same schlock over and over again (COD), or who knowingly buy into a shoddy game and praise it anyway (TERA, Aliens: CM) should be lumped in with the same crowd who beg for more "reality" TV shows and red-neck ghost hunting.

These people are the direct ruination of creative games and creative programming. It's pretty sad when indie developers are winning more awards and the Science Network has more thought provoking and higher quality programming than the AAA titles and mainstream networks. It's disgusting how watered down entertainment is becoming and I weep for what our children will endure because of this generation's passiveness toward being spoon-fed garbage on a daily basis.

Ensu
04-22-2013, 11:36 AM
You are an example of why Publishers force games to market early. They cash in on people like you that are willing to be happy with shoddy game play and uninspired design decisions. They get their money back quick and then abandon the game developers to clean up their mess.

If people instead demanded the practice to change then we might actually see an improvement. But until the gaming community finds a way to cure cranial rectumitis like the OP's case, then things will never improve.

This is an instance where a publisher did not force the game to market early. The publisher will not get their money back quick and then abandon the game developers to clean up their mess. SyFy and Trion Worlds are in it for the long haul.

The software architecture almost all programming is based on acts like a house of cards. You have to make sure everything lines up, or things very obviously fall apart. With thousands and thousands of lines of code, the potential for human error increases, as does the difficulty of finding the cause of the error (often not one line of code, but the interaction of several) and adjusting them without creating new errors. This is why almost every patch in MMOs requires an update to fix the problems it caused.

The complexity of Defiance from a programming perspective is really quite astounding. (I say this not to denigrate other MMOs, to be clear.) That complexity is compounded by attempting to simultaneously release patches for three separate operating systems.

MacDeath
04-22-2013, 11:40 AM
IMO, the game is a hybrid mix of Shooter and MMO. As such it's not a perfect example of a pure shooter or a pure MMO. People don't like what they don't understand so many don't like this hybrid.

Trion hasn't helped much with the rocky start and slow client side patching. Many of us were expecting more from Trion based on the early RIFT experience.

Technodude
04-22-2013, 11:48 AM
LOL Lamerian is right. Why are you so up in arms about his opinion? I agree with him only people that play WoW now are kids looking for a very simple MMO to play. These people put down other games like Defiance and it would not surprised me one bit if other MMO companies pay these people to put down Defiance or other new MMO games that will be coming out soon.:mad:

Only because it is his opinion doesn't mean he is right. Aren't you guys bored of posting same nonsense every time a new MMO is released? how many WOW killers we had so far or how many MMO threatened WOW's dominance..let me count..errr....zero!

And what is with generalizations? do you know all 8 to 9 million players base to come to conclusion that ONLY kids play WOW? no wonder you agree with him, because both of you post idiotic nonsense.

Oceanhawk
04-22-2013, 11:48 AM
This is an instance where a publisher did not force the game to market early. The publisher will not get their money back quick and then abandon the game developers to clean up their mess. SyFy and Trion Worlds are in it for the long haul.

The software architecture almost all programming is based on acts like a house of cards. You have to make sure everything lines up, or things very obviously fall apart. With thousands and thousands of lines of code, the potential for human error increases, as does the difficulty of finding the cause of the error (often not one line of code, but the interaction of several) and adjusting them without creating new errors. This is why almost every patch in MMOs requires an update to fix the problems it caused.

The complexity of Defiance from a programming perspective is really quite astounding. (I say this not to denigrate other MMOs, to be clear.) That complexity is compounded by attempting to simultaneously release patches for three separate operating systems.

I'm not trying to slam you but please don't lecture me on software development. I have a Masters degree in Software Engineering. I understand the complexities very well. I am not trying to say that I demand a perfect game launch or that a game launch is horrible, simply because a few bugs pop up after it goes live. That happens and will continue to happen.

What I am talking about is the sheer number of bugs this game had identified all the way back to Alpha when we let the Devs know about them. Yet the vast majority of those issues were ignored, on second thought lets not say they were ignored because they did acknowledge a lot of them, instead lets say they failed to properly prioritize their remedy.

We also told them about some design decisions that weren't well fleshed out but they too didn't get the attention they needed, poor chat system as an example. The point is that the game was rushed to market because of a hard date caused by the impending start of the TV show. That would have been an incredible feat to have pulled it off cleanly but the fact is they missed. The game came out in the exact same condition it was in in early beta.

I'm not even talking about the complaints some people have with the overall lack of content, I'm sure more will eventually get added. However for an MMO to be released where 3 weeks in people have already finished every single quest, story line, weekly additional content and all the other stuff in the game, then something is missing.

I'm still hoping the game will get fixed to where it should have been at release because I enjoy the concept. I would love to start playing again but I refuse until i'm sure there is something for me to do without the fear that I will lose hours of game play simply because the game decides to do a database rollback.

Denim Samurai
04-22-2013, 11:52 AM
there's some bugs but I think most people appear to believe this game was supposed to be Borderlands 3 and I have no idea where they got that idea.

Oceanhawk
04-22-2013, 11:54 AM
there's some bugs but I think most people appear to believe this game was supposed to be Borderlands 3 and I have no idea where they got that idea.

A lot of us would have been happy with Borderlands 1 in an MMO format ;)

Denim Samurai
04-22-2013, 12:09 PM
A lot of us would have been happy with Borderlands 1 in an MMO format ;)

there's tons of games out there that reward players with significantly stronger characters for more time spent and/or more real money spent. This game eschews that mentality. If you want to compare this game to anything it's elder scrolls and GTA on a MMO scale which is something I don't see often and I'm having fun with it.

Yenkin
04-22-2013, 12:50 PM
I would love to have money everytime someone says a game is going to be a WoW killer, so far WoW is still going strong and with a healhty player base that is far beyond even the nearest competitor. The only saving grace for Defiance is the fact that it is Cross Platform which really can inflate the number because it is not just PC based. I am betting the PC version is now seeing a health dropoff of players, That bug on Saturday night is not helping the game staying power.

Ensu
04-22-2013, 01:12 PM
I'm not trying to slam you but please don't lecture me on software development. I have a Masters degree in Software Engineering. I understand the complexities very well. I am not trying to say that I demand a perfect game launch or that a game launch is horrible, simply because a few bugs pop up after it goes live. That happens and will continue to happen.

What I am talking about is the sheer number of bugs this game had identified all the way back to Alpha when we let the Devs know about them. Yet the vast majority of those issues were ignored, on second thought lets not say they were ignored because they did acknowledge a lot of them, instead lets say they failed to properly prioritize their remedy.

We also told them about some design decisions that weren't well fleshed out but they too didn't get the attention they needed, poor chat system as an example. The point is that the game was rushed to market because of a hard date caused by the impending start of the TV show. That would have been an incredible feat to have pulled it off cleanly but the fact is they missed. The game came out in the exact same condition it was in in early beta.

I'm not even talking about the complaints some people have with the overall lack of content, I'm sure more will eventually get added. However for an MMO to be released where 3 weeks in people have already finished every single quest, story line, weekly additional content and all the other stuff in the game, then something is missing.

I'm still hoping the game will get fixed to where it should have been at release because I enjoy the concept. I would love to start playing again but I refuse until i'm sure there is something for me to do without the fear that I will lose hours of game play simply because the game decides to do a database rollback.

My Masters was in Creative Writing. I only sat in on the Software Engineering Masters, so I'll hold off on the lectures. I agree with all the issues you point out in this post, and I too hope they will be solved. However, I haven't been affected by the rollbacks, and I'm still playing when I get the chance.

skepticck
04-22-2013, 02:10 PM
...It's been a rocky launch and Defiance lacks the most basic of MMO tropes (player market, mail system, decent chat system, player storage, an actual social hub, et cetera)...

pretty much this ^^
this game needs a lot of work still, and when you get a patch that supposed to correct many bugs but doesn't and on the contrary introduces many more then its a bit worrisome, but since its still early days lets hope that the devs get better at really patching bugs and the QA team gets better at testing the patches.

Jthreau
04-22-2013, 02:13 PM
Sadly, we live in a day an age where if its not "great" it is automatically "terrible."

"If you're not first, you're last."

There is so much truth in this quote that it really makes me appreciate the gaming days of the 90s.

Embril
04-22-2013, 02:26 PM
If I never visted the forums I'd have no idea I was supposed to hate the game so much.

/shrug

It ain't perfect, but what is. I think people expect too much, just log in and have a good time. People seem to expect any game that's an MMO to be some all encompassing life-consuming experience that they can spend every day with and never run out of things to do, but that's just not realistic.

Joe Warren
04-22-2013, 02:31 PM
For a brand new MMO shooter or whatever people want to call it. By standard definition it is a MMO. Also for a game that is fun to play yes admittedly there were set backs and bugs that needed to be iron out, but lets face it name one MMO to date that has not had a rocky sail from launch. I just don't understand why all the flack that Defiance is getting. Everywhere from "Angry" youtube reviews to much pointed out average to low scores from game magazine and reviews. To be fair I have seen very positive reviews that don't seem to get the attention as the negative reviews.

I personally feel Defiance is prob one of the best if not the best MMO that I have played in a long time, and I am a ex WoW player of 6 years who have left that game for good, and yes Defiance is one of the reasons why I will not be going back to that game. I love Defiance. I love the story line. it is a breath of fresh air. I am not sure why people choose to blast threw the story line right at launch. My only reason on that is they prob had a speed hacks to get them threw the game real fast just so they can come on and say Defiance has lack of content. Why do people bash Defiance? I don't know, and personally I am feed up with it. For me it is a great MMO and I plan on playing it for a long time to come.

TY Trion for your effort in making a great game. Also TY Sy Fy for a fantastic show.;)

I love the game and think the show is getting off to a great start. What I don't love is having a set of goals that needs to be accomplished and it being impossible to accomplish those goals to get the rewards (new costume, raise in ego, etc.). Whether it is due to timed pursuits not working correctly or ego kills tdm kills avenger kills assits just about everything in pvp being zero'd out. There comes a point in the game when players have accomplished everything they can and everything else they want to accomplish doesn't work. If I could get objective A done while objective B doesn't work and gets fixed that's fine but when you can't get anything accomplished it's so hard to just cross your fingers and hope what's been broke for over a week now magically got fixed the night before. I understand your optimism but you can't down play short comings based on your happy-go-luckiness and just because a different mmo had issues upon release doesn't give game developers an excuse to turn their backs on their consumer base because it's some kind of unspoken routine that we as game players should expect. That's why there is a beta and game testers. I guess what I'm trying to say is can you really blame people for giving them an angry review? I know I don't I'm patient and going to stick with the game but I don't really blame those who don't have anything good to say about it either

Isturi
04-22-2013, 04:10 PM
You are an example of why Publishers force games to market early. They cash in on people like you that are willing to be happy with shoddy game play and uninspired design decisions. They get their money back quick and then abandon the game developers to clean up their mess.

If people instead demanded the practice to change then we might actually see an improvement. But until the gaming community finds a way to cure cranial rectumitis like the OP's case, then things will never improve.

One question then dude you are a senior member and you hate Defiance so much why do you even come on these forums still? My guess is to grief true fans of the game. Am I wrong?

Arsenic_Touch
04-22-2013, 04:13 PM
It's been a rocky launch and Defiance lacks the most basic of MMO tropes (player market, mail system, decent chat system, player storage, an actual social hub, et cetera).

What it does it does quite well. Hopefully the devs will get better with patches and we'll start seeing fundamental MMO systems make their way into the game.

Nailed it. These missing things make all the other problems just look bigger by comparison.

Isturi
04-22-2013, 04:13 PM
Wow... the forums are almost as buggy.... Anyhow (second time writing this)
I have seen the launch ("going gold") on over 10 MMO's / Online games from Ultima Online to this. I want to say this so people can understand it... not one game has had a solid launch. NOT ONE.
World of Warcraft (the game that everyone says is great) when it went gold had more bugs than this game and many others COMBINED. Their Beta team was not very good at looking for them and they let the populace find them. Players getting stuck in trees, instances combing in with others, NPC's disapearing, Quest mobs never spawning, instakilling deathblows from level 1 mobs, PVP (when it came out) "bugs" where people could become invisable, unkillable mobs, being able to round up every mob in a zone and flood towns with agro creatures, rubberbanding, falling through the world etc etc etc...
It takes alot of work to get games to go right, and bugs will be there because people are not perfect and programs are written by people.
Have I gotten upset with the game? Yes.
Am I still playing? Yes.
Will I continue? Yes.

QFT man TYVM

Isturi
04-22-2013, 04:15 PM
Only because it is his opinion doesn't mean he is right. Aren't you guys bored of posting same nonsense every time a new MMO is released? how many WOW killers we had so far or how many MMO threatened WOW's dominance..let me count..errr....zero!

And what is with generalizations? do you know all 8 to 9 million players base to come to conclusion that ONLY kids play WOW? no wonder you agree with him, because both of you post idiotic nonsense.

BTW we never used the words WoW killer. That is your words dude.

Antomus
04-22-2013, 04:18 PM
For a brand new MMO shooter or whatever people want to call it. By standard definition it is a MMO. Also for a game that is fun to play yes admittedly there were set backs and bugs that needed to be iron out, but lets face it name one MMO to date that has not had a rocky sail from launch. I just don't understand why all the flack that Defiance is getting. Everywhere from "Angry" youtube reviews to much pointed out average to low scores from game magazine and reviews. To be fair I have seen very positive reviews that don't seem to get the attention as the negative reviews.

I personally feel Defiance is prob one of the best if not the best MMO that I have played in a long time, and I am a ex WoW player of 6 years who have left that game for good, and yes Defiance is one of the reasons why I will not be going back to that game. I love Defiance. I love the story line. it is a breath of fresh air. I am not sure why people choose to blast threw the story line right at launch. My only reason on that is they prob had a speed hacks to get them threw the game real fast just so they can come on and say Defiance has lack of content. Why do people bash Defiance? I don't know, and personally I am feed up with it. For me it is a great MMO and I plan on playing it for a long time to come.

TY Trion for your effort in making a great game. Also TY Sy Fy for a fantastic show.;)

http://media.tumblr.com/f722aa9493a1532be5479525848e9bc1/tumblr_inline_mfh39eptGe1r20waj.gif

Well said my good man.

Isturi
04-22-2013, 04:21 PM
http://media.tumblr.com/f722aa9493a1532be5479525848e9bc1/tumblr_inline_mfh39eptGe1r20waj.gif

Well said my good man.

LMAO TYVM made my day.;p

cincyfire2
04-22-2013, 04:24 PM
not cross plat...that dream got ****ted on by MS and sony long ago

Arcuatio
04-22-2013, 04:37 PM
For every bad there's a good.
That's how I see Defiance.

It basically balances things out and hopefully the good wins out in the near future.

I'm willing to stick around during these growing pains because I know that they are working effortlessly in fixing problematic issues w/in the game. For me, they have a good track record - RIFT.

Sure I've lost items, had issues with not receiving preorder items, chat glitches etc....and I do get frustrated. But I'm hoping that Defiance finds their mojo and work things out.

Vargas78
04-22-2013, 04:56 PM
Call me one of the lucky ones but my experience on the EU server has been pretty smooth. The worst thing that happened is the combat music got in a loop and became annoying. So i logged out and back again.

Delicious Peaches
04-22-2013, 05:05 PM
It's been a rocky launch and Defiance lacks the most basic of MMO tropes (player market, mail system, decent chat system, player storage, an actual social hub, et cetera).

Alot of this right here and the prime time downtime is getting old. Not to mention all those out there leaving their mics on, making annoying noises like slapping a baby for wanting a diaper changed or cussing out their wife for wanting attention. Wish they would make it where by default it is ptt rather then open all the time. ;)

PseudoCool
04-22-2013, 05:14 PM
Stop sniffing glue and posting on forums. Its been 8 years now. WOW is not losing its dominance and its players has nothing to fear from any MMO especially Defiance.

Perhaps you should look at the Post-Panderia sub numbers.. then come say that :) And it's about time as well.. WoW may enjoy a huge following (even with loosing massive subs).. to the point that it's the "premiere MMO" out there.. but reality is.. it's not that great of a game. It's become the cookie cutter standard, and what's sick, it didn't even "launch" any of the features it's got.. it just copied them with a nifty UI and said "look at me Ma!". And don't even get me started on the lack of community there.. blech.

Frankly.. Defiance is leaps and bounds ahead of ANYTHING that WoW ever did in terms of community, and sure.. I'll agree Defiance isn't going to knock WoW off it's wonder perch of myst and mirrors.. but WoW is a game who's time has certainly come up.. it won't be long before someone makes an MMO that just pecker-slaps WoW into oblivion.. and I'll probably be playing the new one :)

PseudoCool
04-22-2013, 05:18 PM
Alot of this right here and the prime time downtime is getting old. Not to mention all those out there leaving their mics on, making annoying noises like slapping a baby for wanting a diaper changed or cussing out their wife for wanting attention. Wish they would make it where by default it is ptt rather then open all the time. ;)

Ya know.. I'm still trying to figure this out. Default for VOICE CHAT is now OFF (at least on PC.. and we are in the PC forum right?), so why are people still having problems with this? Hmmm I do agree, I'd rather have PTT, and while their at it, a better chat box (that's supposed to be coming in next patch as I understand).

As far as the "mmo tropes".. those are your basics, but most games DO NOT LAUNCH with them. SWTOR did, which was the first game in about 5 years that launched. Most have them within the first month however.. mainly because as players, we DEMAND those things NOW!!! And I don't think it'll take long for them to get the anti-port feeling out of the PC version, so that we can REALLY enjoy the game the way a PC can run it.. not being limited by console standards.

Tgreen
04-22-2013, 05:32 PM
Ya know.. I'm still trying to figure this out. Default for VOICE CHAT is now OFF (at least on PC.. and we are in the PC forum right?), so why are people still having problems with this? Hmmm I do agree, I'd rather have PTT, and while their at it, a better chat box (that's supposed to be coming in next patch as I understand).

Voice chat is thought to be a general help to everyone and to be usually turned on.
There are simply those morons that activated it and now are talking to their ****ing pets and **** polluting the voice chat with background noise.

Mute as soon as you find out whoever that is and move along.

Only place where this was really annoying is shadow wars as it's very hard to find out who the incompetent ******* might be and muting all off your teammates seems a bit much just to silence one guy who can't operate a PC properly.
Before you ask, no I'm not really in rage, but either deliberate or accidental incompetence meets very little tolerance when it comes to such ordinary tasks as checking if your damn mic is recording all the time.


And I don't think it'll take long for them to get the anti-port feeling out of the PC version, so that we can REALLY enjoy the game the way a PC can run it.. not being limited by console standards.

Never been able to understand this ... most Devs are gaming on PCs and yet they didn't take the comparably small effort to customize the UI to the standards of the platform.

PseudoCool
04-22-2013, 05:54 PM
Never been able to understand this ... most Devs are gaming on PCs and yet they didn't take the comparably small effort to customize the UI to the standards of the platform.

Honestly.. that crappy and clunky console UI has really been my only complaint with Defi so far. I haven't had any issues connecting, patching.. haven't lost any weapons or mods.. haven't lost any scrip or achievements. I went through a few days where the "power slide" part of the roller and runner license's wouldn't keep my numbers, so today I just finished them after bug reporting em. Was easier than waiting for a patch..lol

But other than that hideous console look and feel.. I haven't had any problems or complaints about the game, gameplay, lore, or content at all. /shrugs.. I guess I'm either just lucky or understanding.. not sure which...

Fortysixter_UK
04-22-2013, 06:05 PM
Seeing as we are only a week or two into the launch of Defiance, I'm going to resist the urge to moan about some of the tech issues that may be present in the game. Remember when Diablo 3 was launched last year? The first 6-8 weeks were a total clusterf**k, and I posted some detailed complaints about the issues, but now it's a fine and stable game.
I suspect much the same thing will happen with Defiance, and one they add in an easy & fast to use chat system, preferably a global system and a social area ( like the main cities of WOW or RIFT ) then Defiance will start to improve no end.
At the moment it's an enjoyable past time, what I'd like to see is this game becoming a "must play" game in the F2P market.
Lets just hope to TV show gets good reviews and then gets renewed. I'm happy with Defiance so far, I got it from "Game" ( a UK video game store) for 20.00 for the standard version, and am well pleased with the game.
As long as it doesn't become Pay to Win, I'll stick with it.

Incidentally, I'm in the UK and am playing on the US server, and the connection is fine, that usually means well optimised 'net code.

Meanwhile, lets also hope Defiance can stay ahead of the curve, remember, the new Phantasy Star Online gets its western release on PC this year, and look at the similarities between PSO and Defiance. Both Sci-fi, both F2P, both online shooters with RPG elements. Stay sharp Trion, you did well with Rift, now do well with Defiance !

Ronan DEx
04-22-2013, 06:27 PM
For a brand new MMO shooter or whatever people want to call it. By standard definition it is a MMO. Also for a game that is fun to play yes admittedly there were set backs and bugs that needed to be iron out, but lets face it name one MMO to date that has not had a rocky sail from launch. I just don't understand why all the flack that Defiance is getting. Everywhere from "Angry" youtube reviews to much pointed out average to low scores from game magazine and reviews. To be fair I have seen very positive reviews that don't seem to get the attention as the negative reviews.

I personally feel Defiance is prob one of the best if not the best MMO that I have played in a long time, and I am a ex WoW player of 6 years who have left that game for good, and yes Defiance is one of the reasons why I will not be going back to that game. I love Defiance. I love the story line. it is a breath of fresh air. I am not sure why people choose to blast threw the story line right at launch. My only reason on that is they prob had a speed hacks to get them threw the game real fast just so they can come on and say Defiance has lack of content. Why do people bash Defiance? I don't know, and personally I am feed up with it. For me it is a great MMO and I plan on playing it for a long time to come.

TY Trion for your effort in making a great game. Also TY Sy Fy for a fantastic show.;)

The long and short of it is... self entitled kiddies. this new generation of online gamers are sycophantic whiny crybabies.

when its too hard.. its 'impossible and needs nerfing'
when its too easy.. its 'boring game'

Any whine thread is essentially a lack of skill, very few have actual valid points. there are some huge bugs with the game, but they are rarely mentioned over stupid ********..

Wtflag
04-22-2013, 06:30 PM
The game is good if you view it more as a Shooter with MMORPG elements rather than an MMORPG with shooter combat.

This game needs a lobby for PVP instead of moving you into the game world after each match cause the long is pretty load even with a gaming PC.

irallas4316
04-22-2013, 06:31 PM
the difference is: other games rocky launches were met with round the clock hotfixes and patches to correct the bugs. So far our patches have only created MORE issues and taken away content. We've patched backward from awful launch to mediocre beta.

I have a hard time believing that anyone still defending this unpolished turd of a game has played it for longer than 2-3 days.

I agree

No matter how much you polish a turd it's still a turd! To all you Defiance Defenders out there "simple minds are easily impressed

ten4
04-22-2013, 06:31 PM
I have lost many many items like last night where two of my rare elemental respark regenerators decided to poof. This is not the first time. And on top of that, my char is has bugged load out tab. And then I have several bugged goals. Then there is cheaters running rampant, un banned for weeks. Then the CS is well, extremely bad...nothing like rift at all.

This game is a BUG and not little, small unimportant ones: we are talking major ones. Oh you lost items due to bug, haha SUCKS 2 B U! BUY MOAR BITS!!

Arcuatio
04-22-2013, 06:44 PM
Alot of this right here and the prime time downtime is getting old. Not to mention all those out there leaving their mics on, making annoying noises like slapping a baby for wanting a diaper changed or cussing out their wife for wanting attention. Wish they would make it where by default it is ptt rather then open all the time. ;)

I feel very uncomfortable listening in on peoples personal conversation. I'm not sure if they know its ON or not.
It's like I'm a fly on the wall just listening to all the mundane drama that occurs in real life. Their personal phone conversations to a friend or to their child.

It creeps me out.

Ensu
04-22-2013, 07:23 PM
I feel very uncomfortable listening in to peoples personal conversation. I'm not sure if they know its ON or not.
It's like I'm a fly on the wall just listening to all the mundane drama that occurs in real life. Their personal phone conversations to a friend or to their child.

It creeps me out.

The TV series may be scifi, but the game is surely a reality show.

Muffinman
04-22-2013, 07:37 PM
For a brand new MMO shooter or whatever people want to call it. By standard definition it is a MMO. Also for a game that is fun to play yes admittedly there were set backs and bugs that needed to be iron out, but lets face it name one MMO to date that has not had a rocky sail from launch. I just don't understand why all the flack that Defiance is getting. Everywhere from "Angry" youtube reviews to much pointed out average to low scores from game magazine and reviews. To be fair I have seen very positive reviews that don't seem to get the attention as the negative reviews.

I personally feel Defiance is prob one of the best if not the best MMO that I have played in a long time, and I am a ex WoW player of 6 years who have left that game for good, and yes Defiance is one of the reasons why I will not be going back to that game. I love Defiance. I love the story line. it is a breath of fresh air. I am not sure why people choose to blast threw the story line right at launch. My only reason on that is they prob had a speed hacks to get them threw the game real fast just so they can come on and say Defiance has lack of content. Why do people bash Defiance? I don't know, and personally I am feed up with it. For me it is a great MMO and I plan on playing it for a long time to come.

TY Trion for your effort in making a great game. Also TY Sy Fy for a fantastic show.;)

Agreed, not sure why the scores are so low, Defiance is a fantastic game :/

Delicious Peaches
04-22-2013, 07:49 PM
I feel very uncomfortable listening in to peoples personal conversation. I'm not sure if they know its ON or not.
It's like I'm a fly on the wall just listening to all the mundane drama that occurs in real life. Their personal phone conversations to a friend or to their child.

It creeps me out.

I try to tell them in clan chat or whatever but they're not listening. It's like they leave the game on and go watch a movie. Afraid to log out because they might not be able to log back in or something. One guy was upset during a shadow wars match and was really going off on voice. Was funny, people were making fun of him.

Yehlan
04-22-2013, 08:07 PM
I have already packed up and moved onto other things due to the endless issues with this game. I see the majority of people who aggressively support defiance aren't supporting the game as it is but the game they hope it will become and I can respect that as I too will be waiting on the sidelines for the game to become what I hope it can be. I went pretty hardcore into this game I have already dropped over $200 into it so I do feel a little entitled to be a bit more upset than someone who just bought the $60 box but if things get fixed soon enough it wont be for nothing.

Ive beta tested and been part of way too many MMO releases and this may have been one of the better launches but most definitely had the worst patch I have ever seen. Patch notes tend to be incomplete with things being patched without notice some for the better and some further breaking the game. GM's seem to know very little in regards to what is wrong with the game and I have spend more than enough time in live chat educating them and on occasion being im lying about a bug usually in regards to wanting credit for a broken pursuit just to read on the forums the next day that not only am I not the only person having these issues but that defiance acknowledges the bug and is working on a fix.

The game was obviously rushed and anyone who thinks otherwise needs to quit fooling themselves, but being rushed is not an excuse for so many problems being created after launch. I can forgive launch bugs but there is never an excuse for a game breaking patch that after a week has still not been fixed, the game would have been better off with a roll back to pre-patch as it was a far more stable and far more fun game to play.

I do hope Trion manages to fix defiance before too many people decide its broken , and ever more so I hope they manage to fix it before I decide I have no interest in returning.

War Machine
04-22-2013, 08:42 PM
Now go put a few orange weapons in the Salvage Matrix and go PvP for a bit while they're upgrading, then come back here and tell us again how everything is great and that the game just had a rocky launch.

You don't see why people are bashing Defiance cause you didn't experience any of the major game breaking bugs yet. You have to understand that everyone had a different experience with Defiance and the people affected by the worst of bugs are gonna complain. To claim that we're all stuck up kids obsessed with WoW is just plain insulting to me. I only played WoW for about a week before quitting. I really don't know why people always compare every MMO to WoW. WoW is not the mother of MMO-s.

I do know that every game gets a rocky start and will have lots of bugs for the first year or so after launch, but the bugs I've experienced here on Defiance are far worse than any bugs I've seen on any other games. GW2 I remember had problems with the Auction House and it took them about a month to fix it, but they focused on it cause it was a major bug. They kept their community updated and effectively used the players to help test the patches for it.

I don't see Trion focusing on the disappearing weapons bug. They didn't even disable the Matrix to protect players from losing their items. And that's the worst thing. They're acting like they don't really care about the player base. "Oh is this bugged function making your items disappear? Too bad. Go cry to the support so they can have a good laugh and wait weeks before they handle your request."

Don't get me wrong. I love Defiance. Its a fun game but when you have such game breaking bugs and nobody focusing on them hard enough or disabling the function temporarily, it destroys the games and the companies reputation.

Valethar
04-22-2013, 08:46 PM
Stop sniffing glue and posting on forums. Its been 8 years now. WOW is not losing its dominance and its players has nothing to fear from any MMO especially Defiance.

Hello Ghostcrawler. Fancy meeting you here.

Skydive
04-22-2013, 08:56 PM
In reply to the OP, because people like me are too busy playing and enjoying the game to post. Yes there are bugs but very few have been game breaking, even the ego swap fiasco wasn't really game breaking, although a rollback was pretty much to be expected as a result.

Most of my clan a good twenty/thirty odd people do not post on the forum, for one of two reasons or both. Too much negativity on the forums which as a result they consider a waste of time because anything they say constructively will get buried quickly; That's something the moderators need to handle and in my view are not doing. The other reason is simply because we're too busy enjoying the game and show even in spite of the bugs.

Many of those in my clan had been in far worse launches of an MMO than Defiance. Personally Star Wars Galaxies, Star Trek Online and the infamous World of Warcraft login queue that would grow exponentially and in some cases the game was down entire days, so much so they had to offer free time! Star Wars Galaxies was so bad many people considered the game launching as an alpha build never mind a beta build!

If I'm being really snide about the negative press the game has, it's because they tried to make an MMO for consoles. As wonderful an idea it is, a fair number (not all) mainly kids/young adults play on consoles, do not fully understand the real life social consequence of negativity. People avoid you!

Airwave
04-22-2013, 08:56 PM
When Warcraft came out it was finished in less than a week. A AH in this game will bring in scrip sellers and account hackers. Chat needs to be addressed but sitting in a town hearing a kiddies talk about who is gay is not going to add anything to Defiance. I pull up combat text in town in Warcraft just so i don't have to see it. You can't enjoy anything you rush. Yeah I know you didnt rush your just that good, well gratz.

Isturi
04-22-2013, 11:32 PM
in reply to the op, because people like me are too busy playing and enjoying the game to post. Yes there are bugs but very few have been game breaking, even the ego swap fiasco wasn't really game breaking, although a rollback was pretty much to be expected as a result.

Most of my clan a good twenty/thirty odd people do not post on the forum, for one of two reasons or both. Too much negativity on the forums which as a result they consider a waste of time because anything they say constructively will get buried quickly; that's something the moderators need to handle and in my view are not doing. The other reason is simply because we're too busy enjoying the game and show even in spite of the bugs.

Many of those in my clan had been in far worse launches of an mmo than defiance. Personally star wars galaxies, star trek online and the infamous world of warcraft login queue that would grow exponentially and in some cases the game was down entire days, so much so they had to offer free time! Star wars galaxies was so bad many people considered the game launching as an alpha build never mind a beta build!

If i'm being really snide about the negative press the game has, it's because they tried to make an mmo for consoles. As wonderful an idea it is, a fair number (not all) mainly kids/young adults play on consoles, do not fully understand the real life social consequence of negativity. People avoid you!

qft tyvm I agree.

Technodude
04-23-2013, 12:41 AM
Hello Ghostcrawler. Fancy meeting you here.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:


Perhaps you should look at the Post-Panderia sub numbers.. then come say that :) And it's about time as well.. WoW may enjoy a huge following (even with loosing massive subs).. to the point that it's the "premiere MMO" out there.. but reality is.. it's not that great of a game. It's become the cookie cutter standard, and what's sick, it didn't even "launch" any of the features it's got.. it just copied them with a nifty UI and said "look at me Ma!". And don't even get me started on the lack of community there.. blech.

Frankly.. Defiance is leaps and bounds ahead of ANYTHING that WoW ever did in terms of community, and sure.. I'll agree Defiance isn't going to knock WoW off it's wonder perch of myst and mirrors.. but WoW is a game who's time has certainly come up.. it won't be long before someone makes an MMO that just pecker-slaps WoW into oblivion.. and I'll probably be playing the new one :)

Please read the post i was quoting. I could care less what is happening pre or post Pandaria in WOW. My point was that every time a new MMO is about to release people label it as a 'WOW killer'. That is idiotic and stupid.

If WOW is going down in subs it is because it is 8 yeas old and not because of Defiance. The whole 'WOW is scared of losing dominance because of Defiance ' is nothing but same cliche nonsense people say every time a new MMO is about to release. WOW has nothing to fear from any MMO especially not from Defiance. They have nothing in similar.


BTW we never used the words WoW killer. That is your words dude.

No you just agreed that WOW fans fear that their game will lose dominance because of Defiance and generalized the entire player base into kids. :rolleyes:

I have been reading this for over 5 years now and it can not be anymore farther from reality.

Fiancee
04-23-2013, 02:20 AM
Me either.. Open world MMO with shooter combat, decent graphics too. I think game industry as whole is quite damn polarized toward EA/activison/blizzard, maybe a few other older companies. No-one likes the new company!

Technodude
04-23-2013, 03:44 AM
Me either.. Open world MMO with shooter combat, decent graphics too. I think game industry as whole is quite damn polarized toward EA/activison/blizzard, maybe a few other older companies. No-one likes the new company!


Huh? people liked Trion enough for Rift. You make it sound as if Defiance is their first MMO.

Oceanhawk
04-23-2013, 04:07 AM
One question then dude you are a senior member and you hate Defiance so much why do you even come on these forums still? My guess is to grief true fans of the game. Am I wrong?

Actually I don't hate the game at all, I like it for a lot of reasons, the least of which is that it is new and a fresh idea. The difference between you and I is that I want the game to survive for the long haul. I want it to continuously bring in new players. That will benefit all of us. But right now as the game stands today it won't be around long. Soon I'm afraid all that will be left are the bargain bin shoppers out to try the new game they found for $1.99 and people like you. The guys that sit around trying to poke holes in valid issues brought up in the forums by people like me.

So despite how you and others like you want to describe me, I am here to try and convince the Devs to fix this game. To correct the things we told them to fix back in Alpha and early beta. Something I hope they do.

Oceanhawk
04-23-2013, 04:11 AM
Most of my clan a good twenty/thirty odd people do not post on the forum, for one of two reasons or both. Too much negativity on the forums which as a result they consider a waste of time because anything they say constructively will get buried quickly; That's something the moderators need to handle and in my view are not doing. The other reason is simply because we're too busy enjoying the game and show even in spite of the bugs.



See that is the difference between me and a fanboy. What you like to call negativity, I like to call a discussion of issues. Putting your head in the sand and pretending that everything is perfect only further reinforces software publishers actions of rushing games to market.

Just because you enjoy this game tremendously, as do lots of us, doesn't mean we should all sit around posting about rainbows and unicorns on the forum. If you don't voice your concerns then you are as bad as the publishers that continuously take your money and run.

Anim
04-23-2013, 04:24 AM
Most of my clan a good twenty/thirty odd people do not post on the forum, for one of two reasons or both. Too much negativity on the forums which as a result they consider a waste of time because anything they say constructively will get buried quickly; That's something the moderators need to handle and in my view are not doing.

I've had people call me out on my negativity plenty on the forums so far but I've also got a thread that has caused the likes of Myll_Erik and Oveur to take note and pass it on to the guys that created this game. Theres a huge difference between the few people that come and go shouting 'i hate this game, i want my money back this sucks' and those of us that pick apart aspects of the game where we feel it's missing something. Some people cant seem to handle criticism of any kind of the game they're playing and write off anything as 'pointless hating' when it could actually be something really worth reading.

Here's my example: http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?43921-Concerns-amp-Constructive-thoughts-The-big-BIG-post.

Wolfrik
04-23-2013, 04:38 AM
First off, I'll start by saying I enjoy the gun-play and cruising around in vehicles, the co-op missions (when they don't bug or glitch out and become impossible to complete), and the Ark Falls. The game has kept me fairly entertained the past few weeks since launch.

HOWEVER!

To say this game is anything more than mediocre at best would be lying. The fact is, the story is shallow, the voice acting can be pretty atrocious. The story characters aren't very memorable and outside of "in-game" cut-scenes, NPC characters mouths do not move when they speak. Grouping with friends is an act of futility and bugs out more often than not, resulting in not being able to phase with a friend, or a disappearing friends list altogether. Inventory items vanish for seemingly no reason other than it being equipped. Entire side missions (up until this week) had been removed entirely. Weapon mods often-times do the exact opposite of what the tool tip indicates, making your weapon worse than it was before the mod. Pursuits randomly reset, causing hours of grinding, or even general progression to be entirely for nothing.

Now, that's just the PVE issues.

In PVP, one word best summarizes the single major issue. HACKS.

People rampage through PVP missions with all manner of radar, auto-aim, and damage hacks which can result in very poor performance by legit players and causing many to cut out PVP entirely, and for good reason. Another issue is the lack of Capture and Hold matches STILL not implemented in the game, but is not nearly as bad as the hacking.

It's great that you enjoy the game, because I enjoy *some* aspects of it as well, and it is certainly different from most other MMOs. Unfortunately it is not a "great" game, or even a "good" game.

BTW, I'm also an ex-WoW player of 8 years, and can honestly say that Blizzard had it right, and Trion would do well to take some pointers from them with regards to achieving a true MMO experience. As it stands, Defiance is nothing more than a mild multiplayer experience with lots of things to shoot, and more bugs than any launch I've personally ever experienced. It still feels like a Beta, and as far as Betas go, Fire Fall is much better.

True dat, true dat.

BigRich
04-23-2013, 05:01 AM
Seriously? Because i used the incorrect term describing the cut scene, that makes me a troll? I corrected my statement, and yes I know that pre-rendered means outside of the game engine and exclusively rendered CGI, whereas what I meant was game engine rendering. I got caught up in my little rant and typed out the wrong term.

I also find it interesting that the ONLY thing you chose to pick out of my entire post was the one minor error I made with a term. If misusing a term by mistake makes me a troll, then so be it, but before you go awarding yourself a point, explain to me how flaming someone for an opinion makes you any less of a troll? Explain why it seems to be your modus operandi to insult others repeatedly?

Based on your STELLAR 5 posts, most of which are direct insults toward people and outright trolling, perhaps you should stop trying to act sanctimonious and calling the kettle black. While you're at it, try to NOT act like a tool toward your fellow community members. That's asking quite a bit, I know, but indulge me.

Well said Mourneblade. I rarely contribute to posts because I'm fed up with people taking huge offence at something trivial and laying into me as if I'd committed some heinous crime.

Isturi
04-23-2013, 09:11 AM
I got to thinking I believe that one of the main reasons why there is so much negative vibe towards Defiance is because Defiance is not your Trinity Theme park game and why some have brought WoW in to this discussion is because that is all most players know MMO wise so when a new kind of MMO breaks that trinity mold of course we will have people griping and see in a way whether it is big or small a threat to their MMO life.

Technodude
04-23-2013, 10:45 AM
I got to thinking I believe that one of the main reasons why there is so much negative vibe towards Defiance is because Defiance is not your Trinity Theme park game and why some have brought WoW in to this discussion is because that is all most players know MMO wise so when a new kind of MMO breaks that trinity mold of course we will have people griping and see in a way whether it is big or small a threat to their MMO life.

I see now what is your problem. You are in capable of reading. No one would have even brought up WOW unless the guy you were so happy to agree with didn't bring up the cliche 'WOW players fear that their game will lose dominance' as an argument.

It has nothing to do with lack of trinity but then again if you have read majority of criticism you would know that.

Reciprocity
04-23-2013, 10:55 AM
It's been a rocky launch and Defiance lacks the most basic of MMO tropes (player market, mail system, decent chat system, player storage, an actual social hub, et cetera).

What it does it does quite well. Hopefully the devs will get better with patches and we'll start seeing fundamental MMO systems make their way into the game.

OMG It doesn't have a persistent economy and the chat system is poor? Those are 2 of the foundations of a good online game. And no mail?

Sigh. Just bought this and am installing it now. /cry

I really need to remember to check the forums *before* buying stuff these days.

Reciprocity
04-23-2013, 10:58 AM
Not sure what if that was just a crack at WoW or what but WoW has nothing to fear from this game. Or any game TBH, other than Blizzards next MMO.

Yea really. Wow haters all over the place. Whether you like it or not, its still the 600lb gorilla and will always be. No company has the $$ to risk releasing a game as feature rich as Wow now days. It was in the right place in the right time and sunk all that revenue back into R&D and now its a goliath that no one will ever take down.

No release since has come even remotely close except for LOTRO.

ironhands
04-23-2013, 11:00 AM
Shooter and PvP vets think it needs to be harder and too easily completed
MMO vets find the lack of obvious progression and rewards they're used to in other games, as well as lacking social/trade aspects to be a massive flaw
console players aren't used to something that isn't available 100% of the time

general bugs and black hole router issues compounding the above

Scarfe
04-23-2013, 11:01 AM
except for LOTRO.

......
Really???

Reciprocity
04-23-2013, 11:04 AM
......
Really???

Yup.

/10char

Melamine
04-23-2013, 11:15 AM
Did anyone here actually play RIFT? Trion has proven that they listen to the consumers/players and will do whatever they can to keep them happy. RIFT has expanded so much since its inception and is one of the only few MMOs (in addition to WoW) that I enjoyed.

Trion does have Syfy to work with now so updates will probably come as the show "progresses", but give them a chance and they will impress.

Reciprocity
04-23-2013, 11:17 AM
Did anyone here actually play RIFT? Trion has proven that they listen to the consumers/players and will do whatever they can to keep them happy. RIFT has expanded so much since its inception and is one of the only few MMOs (in addition to WoW) that I enjoyed.

Trion does have Syfy to work with now so updates will probably come as the show "progresses", but give them a chance and they will impress.

My concern is what will they do when the show is cancelled after the first season? (if it makes it a full season)

Buu
04-23-2013, 11:20 AM
Most likely from people who don't want WoW to lose its dominance. Defiance is definitely a breath of fresh air. When ESO comes out, I will be able to enjoy the fantasy MMO genre again.

I don't think Activision people give a damn about Defiance. They are solid and powerful. A decaying "artistic" corporation might be way more worried and willing it to fail. As its defenders.

ironhands
04-23-2013, 11:21 AM
My concern is what will they do when the show is cancelled after the first season? (if it makes it a full season)

first season's in the can already, so no worries about that

second season doesn't go through, the game can survive on its own, so could the show if the game didn't, it was planned for that event, should it occur

Oceanhawk
04-23-2013, 11:24 AM
Shooter and PvP vets think it needs to be harder and too easily completed
MMO vets find the lack of obvious progression and rewards they're used to in other games, as well as lacking social/trade aspects to be a massive flaw
console players aren't used to something that isn't available 100% of the time

general bugs and black hole router issues compounding the above

Finally you and i agree on some things :)

ironhands
04-23-2013, 11:26 AM
Finally you and i agree on some things :)

i don't think we've ever disagreed on anything really, facts are facts, I'm a pragmatist. Game's trying to cater to everyone, and as a result, not everyone likes it because it's not enough of what they think it should be. clear case of too many cooks with their own recipe, instead of just taking it for what it is

Myria
04-23-2013, 11:29 AM
I got to thinking I believe that one of the main reasons why there is so much negative vibe towards Defiance is because Defiance is not your Trinity Theme park game [...]

There would need to be meaningful group content before whether or not it was trinity based would even enter into the discussion.

As it stands, saying Defiance is not trinity based makes as much sense as saying the new Tomb Raider or Bioshock 3 aren't Trinity based...

grimm1
04-23-2013, 11:30 AM
I love this game, and despite its low scores on reviews i think it has the potential to get higher scores with DLC and as more episodes of the show are out. As for complaints about lack of content i dont think many of the reviewers and some of the players take in account the pursuits which add alot of content. To me pursuits offer alot of freedom to play however you want to with out having to go through a set path of a storyline, combine that with the skill tree which enables you to play any class without penalty on a single character, and presets to change between each class with ease, i say theres a ton of potential here for greatness.

ironhands
04-23-2013, 11:34 AM
There would need to be meaningful group content before whether or not it was trinity based would even enter into the discussion.

As it stands, saying Defiance is not trinity based makes as much sense as saying the new Tomb Raider or Bioshock 3 aren't Trinity based...

The difference, of course, is the multiplayer aspect. Many people hear M M O and think elves, auction halls, healers, tanks... etc. That's why Destiny is likely distancing themselves from the term.

Scarfe
04-23-2013, 11:36 AM
The difference, of course, is the multiplayer aspect. Many people hear M M O and think elves, auction halls, healers, tanks... etc. That's why Destiny is likely distancing themselves from the term.

I like mmo's but I hate bloody elves. What is this strange assumption that people who like mmo's automatically like sub-Tolkien fantasy nonsense? I am not having a go at you, I am having a go at the dev's who churn this dwarf, elf, dragon crap out.

Oceanhawk
04-23-2013, 11:38 AM
i don't think we've ever disagreed on anything really, facts are facts, I'm a pragmatist. Game's trying to cater to everyone, and as a result, not everyone likes it because it's not enough of what they think it should be. clear case of too many cooks with their own recipe, instead of just taking it for what it is

Point taken. I guess maybe my concept of an MMO differs to greatly from Trion's. And I guess that is my fault, really it is. I have just become accustomed to expecting to play an MMO for months and years instead of days and weeks. Some people don't see issues with that and that is completely their right. I just have a bit of a different expectation.

Oceanhawk
04-23-2013, 11:42 AM
The difference, of course, is the multiplayer aspect. Many people hear M M O and think elves, auction halls, healers, tanks... etc. That's why Destiny is likely distancing themselves from the term.

I think you are correct but when I hear MMO I expect to have a social aspect of the game which is integral to the fun. In this game there really isn't any need for social interaction in order to see everything the game currently brings to the table. I tried a couple Co-ops and when they weren't crashing me to desktop what I found was that no one spoke, at all. Everyone just ran from mob to mob and killed it. No need to take a second and come up with a tactic to use that would increase our odds of winning. NO joking around to laugh and have fun. Just right to the killing and lets get finished asap.

That to me isn't an MMO, that is a multiplayer aspect to a single player game. And that is what I am afraid will cause the destruction of this game :(

Buu
04-23-2013, 11:42 AM
Shooter and PvP vets think it needs to be harder and too easily completed
MMO vets find the lack of obvious progression and rewards they're used to in other games, as well as lacking social/trade aspects to be a massive flaw
console players aren't used to something that isn't available 100% of the time

general bugs and black hole router issues compounding the above

Only agree partially with the social and SPECIALLY agree with trade aspects. The usual progress and rewards would make this game another boring MMO. What is keeping me playing right now is that horizontal progression that is very, very cool.

ironhands
04-23-2013, 11:43 AM
Point taken. I guess maybe my concept of an MMO differs to greatly from Trion's. And I guess that is my fault, really it is. I have just become accustomed to expecting to play an MMO for months and years instead of days and weeks. Some people don't see issues with that and that is completely their right. I just have a bit of a different expectation.

Especially when it has the Trion name associated with it, the first thing to pop into your head would be Rift. I expected crafting and a little more of a class based system, as well as progression, when I started playing, but after a few hours, I started to see the logic behind some of those things not being there, it's really gotten me thinking how other games might work utilizing a similar system.

I certainly want to see a lot more content, but I understood when I bought it that we'll be getting new content, and as yet, we haven't had anything with any meat on it. We should have had the first DLC last week, but it was pushed back, which is why the episode content seemed so small. Until we can really see a pattern as far as content goes, I can't really speculate on what we'll get. Maybe the first DLC will be great, we'll have to wait and see.

ironhands
04-23-2013, 11:45 AM
I like mmo's but I hate bloody elves. What is this strange assumption that people who like mmo's automatically like sub-Tolkien fantasy nonsense? I am not having a go at you, I am having a go at the dev's who churn this dwarf, elf, dragon crap out.

it's more in line with the fantasy genre = elves with bows and dwarves with axes. that's not fantasy, that's tolkien, but you're exactly right, it's appealing to the masses and preconceived expectations. Rift was a little different in that respect...so was...planeshift, if that ever got off the ground. I like my fantasy games far removed from tolkien personally.

Technodude
04-23-2013, 11:45 AM
The difference, of course, is the multiplayer aspect. Many people hear M M O and think elves, auction halls, healers, tanks... etc. That's why Destiny is likely distancing themselves from the term.

Defiance is a very much a MMO so it is quite logical to expect basic features like some kind of auction house, banks, mail etc.

ironhands
04-23-2013, 11:46 AM
I think you are correct but when I hear MMO I expect to have a social aspect of the game which is integral to the fun. In this game there really isn't any need for social interaction in order to see everything the game currently brings to the table. I tried a couple Co-ops and when they weren't crashing me to desktop what I found was that no one spoke, at all. Everyone just ran from mob to mob and killed it. No need to take a second and come up with a tactic to use that would increase our odds of winning. NO joking around to laugh and have fun. Just right to the killing and lets get finished asap.

That to me isn't an MMO, that is a multiplayer aspect to a single player game. And that is what I am afraid will cause the destruction of this game :(

I'm sure it'll turn around. All they have to do is create a need for players to communicate, with more advanced co-ops or hopefully some clan raids.

Oceanhawk
04-23-2013, 11:48 AM
I'm sure it'll turn around. All they have to do is create a need for players to communicate, with more advanced co-ops or hopefully some clan raids.

If that comes to pass I'll buy you your DLC packs :) I will gladly eat crow and thank Trion personally. I just hope there are enough people left playing to make it happen. Would hate to see real multiplayer content show up and then never have enough people online to get a group going.

ironhands
04-23-2013, 11:51 AM
Defiance is a very much a MMO so it is quite logical to expect basic features like some kind of auction house, banks, mail etc.

Yes, it is an MMO, but it's not logical to expect an AH, banks, or mail. There is no standard definition of what an MMO is besides "a whole lotta people playing in the same place at once". It isn't logical to assume that this game would have things like that, when the entire gameplay mechanic is so far removed from most, if not all, MMO type games out there. The only 2 that come to mind are Firefall(very unfinished at this point) and Fallen Earth - which chose to go cookie-cutter.

ironhands
04-23-2013, 11:52 AM
If that comes to pass I'll buy you your DLC packs :) I will gladly eat crow and thank Trion personally. I just hope there are enough people left playing to make it happen. Would hate to see real multiplayer content show up and then never have enough people online to get a group going.

Already purchased, but thanks. I hope to see you there should it come to pass. I wouldn't be concerned about not having enough people. If Anarchy Online can still have players who pay, Defiance will have people logging in free, until they shut it down.

Reciprocity
04-23-2013, 11:54 AM
Yes, it is an MMO, but it's not logical to expect an AH, banks, or mail. There is no standard definition of what an MMO is besides "a whole lotta people playing in the same place at once". It isn't logical to assume that this game would have things like that, when the entire gameplay mechanic is so far removed from most, if not all, MMO type games out there. The only 2 that come to mind are Firefall(very unfinished at this point) and Fallen Earth - which chose to go cookie-cutter.

Fallen Earth cookie cutter?

Bwhahahahahahah. That game couldn't have been further from being cookie cutter. Wow.

/facepalm

toofunn
04-23-2013, 11:56 AM
Defiance is a very much a MMO so it is quite logical to expect basic features like some kind of auction house, banks, mail etc.

UGH, this is sooooo true.. Like, yesterday after i left work, i went down the street and sat at the auction house for a few hrs trying to figure out what kind of mod i was gonna buy for my handy new AR that i bought a few days ago at Wal-mart and i was thinking to myself, like OMG, this feels just like playing Defiance.. OMG!!!!!!!!!! Needless to say I just decided to store my new AR in my bank and then checked my mail to see if any of my friends had sent me any cheeky "hello's".. Teeheehee

ironhands
04-23-2013, 11:57 AM
Fallen Earth cookie cutter?

Bwhahahahahahah. That game couldn't have been further from being cookie cutter. Wow.

/facepalm

What did they do that hasn't been done before? Quests with rewards, crafting, auction halls, mail, vaults, open world, leveling.. Only thing that makes it different from most any other MMORPG is the sluggish shooting interface

edit: oh right, buying gas and food for your mounts, and being able to store things in them

toofunn
04-23-2013, 11:59 AM
no but seriously..

Although it is seemingly a standard MMO addition, there is nothing about an AH, Mail and bank that makes an MMO an MMO. Its linear thought process and unwillingness to change that bring up that mumbo jumbo

Technodude
04-23-2013, 12:00 PM
Yes, it is an MMO, but it's not logical to expect an AH, banks, or mail. There is no standard definition of what an MMO is besides "a whole lotta people playing in the same place at once". It isn't logical to assume that this game would have things like that, when the entire gameplay mechanic is so far removed from most, if not all, MMO type games out there. The only 2 that come to mind are Firefall(very unfinished at this point) and Fallen Earth - which chose to go cookie-cutter.

Yes there is no logical reason to expect ah, mails or banks in every MMO but still players get it because it is a very important aspect of MMOS. Even games like borderland provide banks regardless of weather players expect it or not. It is all about convenience and make gaming experience more comfortable for player base.

If there is no logical reason to expect these basic feature well than there has been no logical reason to deny these features either. And no because it is a MMO shooter..that reason doesn't fly.

However i don't agree that Defiance gameplay has been so far removed that players can not have something like mail or auction house in the game. Defiance revolves heavily around loot system and with this much focus on weapons and mods where one needs multiple copies of same weapon..AH and banks make all the sense.

SnakeAes
04-23-2013, 12:08 PM
First post on the forum here, and I haven't read the whole thread, but I just get the impression that the game was too rushed to release.

Choosing to release the game at the same time as the TV show went live couldn't have been a good idea. It forces a deadline on the developers and ultimately causes an unfinished game to be released before it's ready.

I think the game is still in its infancy and hope that enough of the player base sticks around to watch it grow and improve. I agree that Defiance does some things really well - the graphics are incredible, and the Arkfall events are always a blast. However, the script is poorly written, the storyline is too drawn out (perhaps a side-effect of being paired with a TV show), and the voice acting is absolutely awful. This makes it hard to want to stay involved in the game.

It's also kind of tough to even get started since the menu system is so hard to navigate. I think most players figure it out eventually, but everything is so awkwardly placed and requires so many mouse clicks that it's kind of burdensome.

Gameplay gets kind of repetitive, and while I understand the purpose of not having a gear progression, part of the draw of MMO type games is being able to watch your character get stronger, and feeling accomplished at how far you have come. Sure there is the EGO grid, but ultimately the differences it makes are pretty minimal. This is great from a balance perspective, but when you don't feel powerful compared to a few levels ago or compared to when you first started the game, it reduces the desire to want to continue playing.

I think Defiance is mediocre at best right now. It needs a little more polish, but it definitely has potential.

ironhands
04-23-2013, 12:09 PM
Yes there is no logical reason to expect ah, mails or banks in every MMO but still players get it because it is a very important aspect of MMOS. Even games like borderland provide banks regardless of weather players expect it or not. It is all about convenience and make gaming experience more comfortable for player base.

If there is no logical reason to expect these basic feature well than there has been no logical reason to deny these features either. And no because it is a MMO shooter..that reason doesn't fly.

However i don't agree that Defiance gameplay has been so far removed that players can not have something like mail or auction house in the game. Defiance revolves heavily around loot system and with this much focus on weapons and mods where one needs multiple copies of same weapon..AH and banks make all the sense.

With borderlands it makes sense, for replayability, being able to pass down a weapon to a younger character, but your inventory space is somewhat "fixed" and limited (yes, i know you can get upgrades, but only a limited amount), defiance, it grows as you do. Instead of a bank, they could just tweak the UI and accomplish the same goal that having a bank would. It would probably be even more convenient that way, since you wouldn't need to find a bank vendor/vault somewhere.

The AH, this is definitely a highly debated feature, but IMO it'll bring nothing but trouble. If an AH goes live, you'll have item farmers to make scrip. This makes scrip a valuable commodity, and as such, you'll see gold farmers coming in to sell it for real money. It will also push people to run right to the AH to find the specific item they want, instead of getting lucky and finding it in the field, or in a lock box. An AH would also mean people would be less inclined to purchase a lockbox for bits - there would be no point, when you could just pick up exactly what you wanted in the AH, and purchase scrip for $ if you really wanted. On top of that, you'd end up with many people with all of the "best" gear, on a plateau, waiting for the next content release, which would then have to be much more challenging to compensate.

Riz
04-23-2013, 12:18 PM
Well... It's certainly announced as a MMO, launched as a MMO and sold as a MMO. The reason that it receives so much bad comments is because it doesnt 'feel' like a MMO. The voice chat is instable, and who the fook uses a keyboard that gets in sight of your game in a dynamic environment where enemies spawn everywhere? I really miss social hubs indeed, wouldnt it be great if we could lay down our guns for a bit and sit in The Crater Bar at some sort of pokertable gambling for some extra scrip? There was so much more to achieve in this game then they did, it feels so 'undercooked'. The story kinda suxx and is predictable (so far), the voice acting is pretty bad and im not sure if i would quit the game now which character would stay in my memories. Even badguys dont get introduced, i never heard of Jackleg Joe until i had to kill him. and found out about Nim when i was already in San F. Poorly executed imo. An example, Borderlands2/Handsome Jack. A funny fooker that gets introduced right at the start of the game, gets you annoyed, gets you insulted and makes you laugh. A badguy to remember.

BUT! If i let go of that MMO-idea and purely look at the game as a shooter and its gameplay it actually does a great job! Sure missions are all alike and get repetitive, but if done with some friends and on days that the voicechat actually works its a great deal of fun. If they only didnt present it as a MMO lol, cause it isnt. Most players i did a co-op with was 5 ppl in one group and thats not 'massive'. The basics are good, but still feels like the beta. Hopefully they take another good look at why Borderlands2 is so popular and get some of their strong parts into Defiance. Add a social hub to that and an always working voicechat, fix the bugs in some missions and get the servers to run more stable regarding timeouts and framerate drops and you have a winner. They're really not far off, maybe just needed another month before actually launching the game.

And theres a reason btw why we dont have a bank or extra storage room somewhere... You have your inventory which -unlike Borderlands- is pretty much unlimited. One way to get more space is to unlock it during gameplay. The main reason why Trion havent implanted a bank (i think) is the option in the Defiance-store to buy inventoryspace with bits (=real money). So by limiting your inventoryspace they actually persuade you to drop extra on the game so you wont have to toss away good items you really want to keep.

Thoemse
04-23-2013, 12:38 PM
As a casual player i just beaten Nim today and i did get my moneys worth. I did buy the season pass and am curious what is to come. I will do some pursuits and get my ego level up a bit in the meantime.

The problem is the MMO part. People expected an MMO with tons of endgame content raids and so on i believe.

the squeeze
04-23-2013, 12:39 PM
Don't understand why people are complaining and why wow get brought up in every single forum. Blizzard announced over a year ago it was never going to make any more wow games which is why wow isn't dead and never will be.
as for defiance the developers probably don't know where the problem is and are more than likely stripping bits of code at a time which may or may not be causing more bugs in the game. Maybe the game is just this buggy because its spread across 3 platforms that all use different programming so maybe the problem comes from there.
maybe people sat on here complaining have got nothing better to do. So how about everyone go take a programming course rewrite the program for this game then send it to the developers without any bugs in.... Oh yeah i forgot majority of you cant. if you enjoy the game why complain. If you don't enjoy the game play something else maybe. But these guys are doing all they can to try fix the bugs but it takes time.
this game is also an mmo it has everything an mmo has also who needs a bank lol just use a weapon to max lvl then discard no need for a bank you cant drop items when you die i have inventory space of 63 i have constantly two types of each weapon a couple of grenades and a couple of shields. So a bank is just a silly idea as for auction house definitely not because then you get your macros where people are just to lazy to work for what they want they would let a computer do it all for them. As for jacks there may be a couple but people that mention this have to realise people you are against are on a pc so if your on a console you are at one hell of a disadvantage pc player can turn 180 degrees by pressing one button on a console you could do it in same time but will prob overshoot what you want to aim at because your sensitivity is so high.

Isturi
04-23-2013, 04:58 PM
First post on the forum here, and I haven't read the whole thread, but I just get the impression that the game was too rushed to release.

Choosing to release the game at the same time as the TV show went live couldn't have been a good idea. It forces a deadline on the developers and ultimately causes an unfinished game to be released before it's ready.

I think the game is still in its infancy and hope that enough of the player base sticks around to watch it grow and improve. I agree that Defiance does some things really well - the graphics are incredible, and the Arkfall events are always a blast. However, the script is poorly written, the storyline is too drawn out (perhaps a side-effect of being paired with a TV show), and the voice acting is absolutely awful. This makes it hard to want to stay involved in the game.

It's also kind of tough to even get started since the menu system is so hard to navigate. I think most players figure it out eventually, but everything is so awkwardly placed and requires so many mouse clicks that it's kind of burdensome.

Gameplay gets kind of repetitive, and while I understand the purpose of not having a gear progression, part of the draw of MMO type games is being able to watch your character get stronger, and feeling accomplished at how far you have come. Sure there is the EGO grid, but ultimately the differences it makes are pretty minimal. This is great from a balance perspective, but when you don't feel powerful compared to a few levels ago or compared to when you first started the game, it reduces the desire to want to continue playing.

I think Defiance is mediocre at best right now. It needs a little more polish, but it definitely has potential.

First TY for the post. Next you have very much nailed it. Even the DEVs agree with you. But you still remained positive. TYVM

Airwave
04-23-2013, 08:27 PM
What would be sold in a AH in Defiance most weapons are so close to each other I don't really see a reason to buy them. Defiance did something different you personal skill with weapons give you way more than going from white to purple. There are drop boxes in the game so Yes personal mail is a good idea and could be used as part of questing. Bank I think,, They want you to buy storage slots. With no sub fee I understand this. Free is better but I understand. Bugs in quest need to be addressed. I see they are working on them. Some i got stuck on now work. Once the chat box gets expanded a little more social interaction could happen. Not saying it will as most rush kill kill kill. Best answer to social is guild and vent. Do you think the game/show link has held back content? Its coming but maybe at a slower pace. Good to know we don't have to wait on major patches or xpac's to see it.

mikegonzalez2k
04-23-2013, 10:44 PM
One thing I hope Trion has learned from this is that some projects need more time in beta before they are ready for launch. Rift came in guns blazing but had an extremely strong launch. That's honestly the only reason I gave Defiance a chance, I remember the great experience I had being in Rift's beta, and it's launch.

While I knew this would be a different and highly experimental format (PC/console integration) I was hoping for a product who's issued underwent thorough testing before launch.

Perhaps they could have avoided all this negative feedback...

They could have had more betas.
Have various betas going on simultaneously which tested different parts of the game.
They might have used more in house testers to help the dev teams directly step through code and find the errors.

Scarfe
04-24-2013, 03:34 AM
One thing I hope Trion has learned from this is that some projects need more time in beta before they are ready for launch. Rift came in guns blazing but had an extremely strong launch. That's honestly the only reason I gave Defiance a chance, I remember the great experience I had being in Rift's beta, and it's launch.

While I knew this would be a different and highly experimental format (PC/console integration) I was hoping for a product who's issued underwent thorough testing before launch.

Perhaps they could have avoided all this negative feedback...

They could have had more betas.
Have various betas going on simultaneously which tested different parts of the game.
They might have used more in house testers to help the dev teams directly step through code and find the errors.

They were working to the TV show release date, that was the problem; exacerbated by the cross platform release. But like you I had positive memories of the Rift launch and expected them to pull it off.

Oceanhawk
04-24-2013, 04:10 AM
On top of that, you'd end up with many people with all of the "best" gear, on a plateau, waiting for the next content release, which would then have to be much more challenging to compensate.

I understand your concern but the reality of the situation is that gear in this game isn't a big deal. So in my opinion having Trion spend time on building an AH would be a waste of resources. Not because of the reasons you list, of which I think you have good points, but because, why should I pay script for a Legendary weapon that has the same stats as that Green rifle i got off a vendor?

ironhands
04-24-2013, 07:03 AM
I understand your concern but the reality of the situation is that gear in this game isn't a big deal. So in my opinion having Trion spend time on building an AH would be a waste of resources. Not because of the reasons you list, of which I think you have good points, but because, why should I pay script for a Legendary weapon that has the same stats as that Green rifle i got off a vendor?

That's one reason for the "best" in quotes. But I wasn't just saying "best" in terms of the different rarity, but in the actual weapon you want, specific RoF/mag size/effect combo as well. To me, a 3 round burst shotty with siphon and a pulser with radiation is what I'd go out of my way for in the AH, and once I had it, I'd only be changing weapons to skill-up. As we know, some weapons are certainly better than others, but it's usually not due to the rarity classification or ego rating.

In the general term, these are solid reasons to not have an AH, the waste of resources as well, definitely time is better spent bug-hunting.

Look at any MMO game with an AH, unless there's a fair amount of "no-trade" items, it just becomes a gold farm, good example would be to look at the AH system in everquest. The roleplay servers have relatively few "no-trade" items, pretty much anything you want can be purchased. Their economy is drastically different from the rest, or at least, was last time I played. I think the reasons against a AH far outweigh the reasons for one. I can't see any "valid" points beyond "i was expecting one/other games have one" and "it would give us something to do beyond shooting/social aspect", and "makes it easier to get exactly what i want" - but if it was that easy, suddenly there's no point in getting lockboxes or arkfalls.

Fenruswolf
04-24-2013, 07:09 AM
I find that Defiance has a very unique story, very good voice acting, and enough content to keep me entertained for a long time to come. Now, with that said, I am waiting for the first DLC to come out, hopefully it will have substance to it. While I do respect people's opinion with comparing Defiance to other MMO's, it is the very differences that make me enjoy it so much. Why would you want Defiance to be like every other MMO? People are complaining about the need for mailboxes, market places, auction houses, social hubs.... the list goes on and on. I rather enjoy the fact that Defiance is different. I for one am tired of the same MMO, just a different skin. Yes, you may say that Defiance is just another MMO with a different skin, but there is enough of a difference here to keep me interested and rather enjoying it. I for one get tired of the power players and the power clans running around making life hell for everyone else. This game does a great job at keeping things equal. Here you can play as a group, alone, and progress at your pace without being left behind in the dust. I love it.

PseudoCool
04-24-2013, 07:12 AM
I'd like an AH simply because it would make it easier to find the items I want in game than having to hunt them down.

Now.. that being said.. I'm sure like others have said, it would become a giant scrip farm. Most in-game economies do become that over time, some faster than others. However.. having the ability to go into an AH and grab the mod you want/need from someone else for 500 scrip is a better deal than trying to hunt down that special blue or green mod from missions. The nice part about that as well.. the person selling it isn't stuck selling it to a vendor for 200 scrip.. and the economy in that fashion feeds itself.

However.. that is, in my opinion, the only valid reason for having an auction house.. the ability to get mods or weapons that you haven't been able to find on your own.

Unreal Warfare
04-24-2013, 08:08 AM
Trion would do well to take some pointers from them with regards to achieving a true MMO experience.

They did, it was called RIFT!

Kingmoo
04-24-2013, 12:05 PM
Watched the 2nd episode and played lots of pvp last night:

Good show and no disconnects. Things are looking up!

Botsock
04-24-2013, 12:53 PM
I think some people are speculating that an MMO is supposed to have certain features due to the fact that it's called an "MMO". I'll admit, a large majority of MMO's do have different social functionalities (bank, AH, etc..). With that being said, sometimes people dive into the meaning of "MMO" a little too critically. On the surface MMO means (and you all know) "Massively Multiplayer Online", and usually follows the suit - MMO(insert sub-genre here). In most cases, developers can label their title as an MMO and still develop it as they see fit. This means that they can strip certain features/functionality and still pertain to the massively multiplayer online market.

I agree with the fact that this game is indeed an MMO, but only by the surface level definition.. if you look beyond that you're not going to find what you want. This game is a third-person shooter first and foremost, but I think Trion wanted to take two things that are traditional and development something unique. Who doesn't want a third-person shooter they can play with a large majority of their buddies, giving them freedom to approach situations how they see fit?

I am glad that Trion tried to take the concept of an MMO in a new direction! Sure it still has similar aspects, but it's a start :)

PseudoCool
04-24-2013, 02:04 PM
I think some people are speculating that an MMO is supposed to have certain features due to the fact that it's called an "MMO". I'll admit, a large majority of MMO's do have different social functionalities (bank, AH, etc..). With that being said, sometimes people dive into the meaning of "MMO" a little too critically. On the surface MMO means (and you all know) "Massively Multiplayer Online", and usually follows the suit - MMO(insert sub-genre here). In most cases, developers can label their title as an MMO and still develop it as they see fit. This means that they can strip certain features/functionality and still pertain to the massively multiplayer online market.

I agree with the fact that this game is indeed an MMO, but only by the surface level definition.. if you look beyond that you're not going to find what you want. This game is a third-person shooter first and foremost, but I think Trion wanted to take two things that are traditional and development something unique. Who doesn't want a third-person shooter they can play with a large majority of their buddies, giving them freedom to approach situations how they see fit?

I am glad that Trion tried to take the concept of an MMO in a new direction! Sure it still has similar aspects, but it's a start :)

Bot - you just got this not too long ago yourself after cruising the forums and asking for opinions like the OP is doing if I do recall correctly?

Botsock
04-24-2013, 02:34 PM
Bot - you just got this not too long ago yourself after cruising the forums and asking for opinions like the OP is doing if I do recall correctly?Sure did! Though I am not trying to point out any flaws in what OP is asking, if I did so I apologize. The point I wanted to get across is that some individuals may feel a game is only categorized as an MMO if it has a certain functionality/feature-set. Which I think isn't exactly the case, as Defiance can easily be classified as an MMO without having certain functionalities. I will admit I am a new player, but through my research and small portion of playtime I was able to depict fairly quick that Defiance's focus is on tight third-person shooter gameplay. Then after that was solidified, it shifted focus on what the approach would be to make Defiance an MMO. Which I believe is appropriate, because that is what the game is all about. I just wanted to point out that an MMO can be developed in a plethora of different ways, and doesn't necessarily have to follow a certain path to be a solid game.

But who knows, I could be wrong! Haha. I don't want this to be taken as 100% factual though, this is just my strong opinion. Haha!

Personally I think the game is awesome! I haven't played too long.. but I have been itching to play it ever since I logged out on Monday, haha. Come on work... end... ENNND!

Sorry if I caused any offence, wasn't my intention at all! :D

Get up, Gear up, and Giddy up!

Teizar
04-24-2013, 04:31 PM
This is 2013 .... people have seen games like Mass effect, assassin's creed, WoW, guildwars2 (two console single player games and two online MMOs) this game presented its self as both and hyped up too much

RULES TO BUYING GAMES(IMO):
:1) never buy games with more then 6 months of hype
:2) never preorder (made that mistake for the last time with this game)
:3) never trust what is said even by the devs ... they will say anyhitng to get you to buy and only deliver 80% truth (RED HEAVY ARMOR for preordering from TRION site BULLLSH***T)

wait for the reviews to come out on youtube or other impartial site vids of the gameplay and maybe Angry Joe(youtube) or http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation they may be harsh but at least there honest an not trying to sell you they just show you their opinion and make it funny

I wanted to like this game, i forced my self to play even thou i was crashing 6-10 times every 2-3 hours unable to do things simply cause of bugs I feel I got my $99 worth out of this game....am I happy about it .... no TRION should give back the money they toulk from us WE have seen better game play in the beta builds that were tested this is the "launch" they should be ashamed for tricking people into paying to play this "post alpha-Pre beta"

Schwa
04-24-2013, 07:07 PM
They did, it was called RIFT!

And then they forgot everything they learned about a quality, stable launch with content in multiple levels of difficulty.

Trion didn't make this game. The other Trion did.

Isturi
04-24-2013, 11:20 PM
Sure did! Though I am not trying to point out any flaws in what OP is asking, if I did so I apologize. The point I wanted to get across is that some individuals may feel a game is only categorized as an MMO if it has a certain functionality/feature-set. Which I think isn't exactly the case, as Defiance can easily be classified as an MMO without having certain functionalities. I will admit I am a new player, but through my research and small portion of playtime I was able to depict fairly quick that Defiance's focus is on tight third-person shooter gameplay. Then after that was solidified, it shifted focus on what the approach would be to make Defiance an MMO. Which I believe is appropriate, because that is what the game is all about. I just wanted to point out that an MMO can be developed in a plethora of different ways, and doesn't necessarily have to follow a certain path to be a solid game.

But who knows, I could be wrong! Haha. I don't want this to be taken as 100% factual though, this is just my strong opinion. Haha!

Personally I think the game is awesome! I haven't played too long.. but I have been itching to play it ever since I logged out on Monday, haha. Come on work... end... ENNND!

Sorry if I caused any offence, wasn't my intention at all! :D

Get up, Gear up, and Giddy up!

No offense taken dude. NP:cool:

Elandriel
04-25-2013, 02:35 AM
And then they forgot everything they learned about a quality, stable launch with content in multiple levels of difficulty.

Trion didn't make this game. The other Trion did.

I have the same feeling this Trion is not the same as the other one. By the looks of it the name is the only thing that connects those two.

Schwa
04-25-2013, 02:40 AM
I have the same feeling this Trion is not the same as the other one. By the looks of it the name is the only thing that connects those two.

Obviously, quality or completion standards don't. Or security-- we can add that one over the past few days on PC.

dirtyklingon
04-25-2013, 04:02 AM
Obviously, quality or completion standards don't. Or security-- we can add that one over the past few days on PC.

rift had one ofthe most epic security fails in mmo history.


their log in token was unencrypted, so to gain access to people's accounts, hackers only needed to change values in a string in the token, then they could unmitigatedly access people's accounts.

even if that person logged in, the hacker would just bump them back out. even if the person changed their pwd, their email, w/e, it didn't matter, the hacker had full access.


it took public shaming of trion to get the problem solved, which btw it was solved by a user.

even after that it took quite some time for affected players to have their items restored.

Booshy
04-25-2013, 04:07 AM
For a brand new MMO shooter or whatever people want to call it. By standard definition it is a MMO. Also for a game that is fun to play yes admittedly there were set backs and bugs that needed to be iron out, but lets face it name one MMO to date that has not had a rocky sail from launch. I just don't understand why all the flack that Defiance is getting. Everywhere from "Angry" youtube reviews to much pointed out average to low scores from game magazine and reviews. To be fair I have seen very positive reviews that don't seem to get the attention as the negative reviews.

I personally feel Defiance is prob one of the best if not the best MMO that I have played in a long time, and I am a ex WoW player of 6 years who have left that game for good, and yes Defiance is one of the reasons why I will not be going back to that game. I love Defiance. I love the story line. it is a breath of fresh air. I am not sure why people choose to blast threw the story line right at launch. My only reason on that is they prob had a speed hacks to get them threw the game real fast just so they can come on and say Defiance has lack of content. Why do people bash Defiance? I don't know, and personally I am feed up with it. For me it is a great MMO and I plan on playing it for a long time to come.

TY Trion for your effort in making a great game. Also TY Sy Fy for a fantastic show.;)

Not sure which MMO games you've been playing, but this has been the poorest launch of any game I've played since Vanguard in my opinion. And it's everything combined, slow patch updates, tons of bugs and critical issues, poor communication from the devs on the forums, hacking running rampant now, no social interaction, console ported UI, incredibly boring main game mission line (find my ark-core, over and over and over) disappointing show tie-in material, disappointing launch depth of game, mall world and amount of content.

Oceanhawk
04-25-2013, 04:28 AM
I logged in last night for the first time in a week and low and behold I saw nothing but hackers running rampant. Every Arkfall I went to had at least one guy one shotting every mob. I tried PvP yet again and it was the same thing. Right now no matter how much I try to like this game, and to give it a chance, it just seems to go backwards each time I log in.

I will hold out until the next major patch but if things aren't considerably better I will uninstall. Just not worth my time when there are so many other games in which I can spend my time. Sorry about the negativity, I had been trying to tone it down but after last night I just can''t hold back anymore.

Schwa
04-25-2013, 05:53 AM
rift had one ofthe most epic security fails in mmo history.


their log in token was unencrypted, so to gain access to people's accounts, hackers only needed to change values in a string in the token, then they could unmitigatedly access people's accounts.

even if that person logged in, the hacker would just bump them back out. even if the person changed their pwd, their email, w/e, it didn't matter, the hacker had full access.


it took public shaming of trion to get the problem solved, which btw it was solved by a user.

even after that it took quite some time for affected players to have their items restored.

That all happened and was resolved (first by coinlock, then by the final fix) in less time than it's taken for Defiance to get its first patch.

No, the patch the week before last doesn't count. They're still cleaning up that mess.

Shismar
04-25-2013, 06:40 AM
That all happened and was resolved (first by coinlock, then by the final fix) in less time than it's taken for Defiance to get its first patch.

No, the patch the week before last doesn't count. They're still cleaning up that mess.
Doh, please don't mention coinlock. How many patches did they put out until it was reasonably water tight? Not to mention that it was a PITA for people with dynamic IPs. Just fixing the huge security hole itself took forever. In all fairness, other than that there were few issues and a good amount of content at launch an in quick patches. No complaints there.

Defiance on the other hand ... sorry, not expecting much any more. Issues just keep piling up and the desperately needed content not in sight.

Lamerian
04-25-2013, 08:53 AM
Not sure what if that was just a crack at WoW or what but WoW has nothing to fear from this game. Or any game TBH, other than Blizzards next MMO.

As long as other MMOs are being hacked and glitched by the people who want WoW to stay dominant, your statement will be correct. When, or if, people finally see how the system is working to keep them on top, then you will be wrong.

Lamerian
04-25-2013, 08:57 AM
Stop sniffing glue and posting on forums. Its been 8 years now. WOW is not losing its dominance and its players has nothing to fear from any MMO especially Defiance.

I've never stated that Defiance is going to unseat WoW from it's dominant spot in the MMO market. To be more specific, the MMO culture is built so that WoW is the standard that other MMOs are judged by (not the best standard), and, more importantly, the people who use WoW to make money promote it relentlessly so they can keep making money off of it.

Facade
04-25-2013, 08:58 AM
As long as other MMOs are being hacked and glitched by the people who want WoW to stay dominant, your statement will be correct. When, or if, people finally see how the system is working to keep them on top, then you will be wrong.


Did you just say people are hacking other MMOs to make WoW stay dominant or did you word that wrong?

Lamerian
04-25-2013, 08:59 AM
I myself don't play WoW anymore as I quit 5 years ago but to say that WoW has to fear anything at all from Defiance is laughable.

If I actually said Defiance is meant to challenge WoW's dominance, then your statement would have some credence. As it is, your just responding to your own assumptions.

Lamerian
04-25-2013, 09:08 AM
Only because it is his opinion doesn't mean he is right. Aren't you guys bored of posting same nonsense every time a new MMO is released? how many WOW killers we had so far or how many MMO threatened WOW's dominance..let me count..errr....zero!

And what is with generalizations? do you know all 8 to 9 million players base to come to conclusion that ONLY kids play WOW? no wonder you agree with him, because both of you post idiotic nonsense.

Again, more of the same assumptions that Defiant was intended to undermine WoW's dominance. As far as being filled with kids, I don't know the age ratio of the players. A persons age in the game means less to me than how a person treats others. There are always the same vocal group who come against new MMOs and the comparisons to WoW are abundant. I do agree though, Blizzard has had long to perfect their MMO and those who have played since vanilla experienced the glitches and bugs and patches along the way.

WoW is hyped above the quality of game it actually is. It's not made much content progress. Rinse, repeat.

Facade
04-25-2013, 09:08 AM
If I actually said Defiance is meant to challenge WoW's dominance, then your statement would have some credence. As it is, your just responding to your own assumptions.

Your post implied it with the "Most likely from people who don't want WoW to lose its dominance.".

Edit:
You realize we are replying to your comment right? We're not saying that Defiance is actually trying to do anything to WoW.

Lamerian
04-25-2013, 09:14 AM
Your post implied it with the "Most likely from people who don't want WoW to lose its dominance.".

No it didn't. You are applying assumption. People who want WoW to remain at the top, for monetary reasons alone, don't want players migrating to other games. It doesn't mean any particular game will truly challenge WoWs dominance.

Facade
04-25-2013, 09:19 AM
No it didn't.

The way you put it reads as if that's what you were implying and now looks like you are trying to backpedal. Either way it doesn't matter.

Lamerian
04-25-2013, 09:23 AM
The way you put it reads as if that's what you were implying and now looks like you are trying to backpedal. Either way it doesn't matter.

No. I'm not backpedaling, just trying to make it a little clearer for you (and anyone else reading it). If it didn't matter, then why did you comment on it? The "it doesn't matter" response shows you know you're wrong and don't want to admit it.

Facade
04-25-2013, 09:25 AM
No. I'm not backpedaling, just trying to make it a little clearer for you (and anyone else reading it). If it didn't matter, then why did you comment on it? The "it doesn't matter" response shows you know you're wrong and don't want to admit it.

No. I just don't feel this warrants an argument. I know how it reads to me and I'm not the only one that read it that way. Having an argument on what you did/did not mean is pointless is all.

Lamerian
04-25-2013, 09:30 AM
No. I just don't feel this warrants an argument. I know how it reads to me and I'm not the only one that read it that way. Having an argument on what you did/did not mean is pointless is all.

If you didn't think it warranted an argument, then you wouldn't continue to argue. Obviously, you have a hard time being honest with yourself.

Facade
04-25-2013, 09:31 AM
If you didn't think it warranted an argument, then you would continue to argue. Obviously, you have a hard time being honest with yourself.

More like passing time at work.
You also forgot the "n't" on "woudn't" ;)

Lamerian
04-25-2013, 09:38 AM
More like passing time at work.
You also forgot the "n't" on "woudn't" ;)

So, you're a work-troll on the forums making empty accusations based on assumptions.

Facade
04-25-2013, 09:39 AM
So, you're a work-troll on the forums making empty accusations based on assumptions.

as long as it makes the slow parts of the day go faster, sure why not.

Menace4NRK
04-25-2013, 09:39 AM
I am confused as to how WoW being compared to this game is even relavant. It's not even the same type of game. There is so much /facepalm in this entire thread, I don't even...

Why people? Why?!

Lamerian
04-25-2013, 09:45 AM
I am confused as to how WoW being compared to this game is even relavant. It's not even the same type of game. There is so much /facepalm in this entire thread, I don't even...

Why people? Why?!

Defiance and WoW are definitely not comparable games -agree.

Technodude
04-25-2013, 11:17 AM
I've never stated that Defiance is going to unseat WoW from it's dominant spot in the MMO market. To be more specific, the MMO culture is built so that WoW is the standard that other MMOs are judged by (not the best standard), and, more importantly, the people who use WoW to make money promote it relentlessly so they can keep making money off of it.

Do i really need to go back and quote your post for you? what you said was pretty clear. Bringing WOW in the discussion was complete irrelevant.

Oceanhawk
04-25-2013, 11:44 AM
LMAO, you can never have conversations about online games these days without all the kiddies bringing up WoW. I guess that just proves the sad state we gamers find ourselves in when it comes to quality online games, or lack thereof.

Isturi
04-25-2013, 04:48 PM
Do i really need to go back and quote your post for you? what you said was pretty clear. Bringing WOW in the discussion was complete irrelevant.

Hey Dude I see you still looking for post to troll. Do I need to quote your trolling for you yet again? Na never mind it take to long.

Isturi
04-25-2013, 04:49 PM
I've never stated that Defiance is going to unseat WoW from it's dominant spot in the MMO market. To be more specific, the MMO culture is built so that WoW is the standard that other MMOs are judged by (not the best standard), and, more importantly, the people who use WoW to make money promote it relentlessly so they can keep making money off of it.

QFT man TYVM!!!

Isturi
04-25-2013, 05:02 PM
LMAO, you can never have conversations about online games these days without all the kiddies bringing up WoW. I guess that just proves the sad state we gamers find ourselves in when it comes to quality online games, or lack thereof.
Er Um you got that backwards. All the kiddies know is WoW a Trinity Theme park game as to which Defiance is not. Thankfully, I am a ex WoW player of 6 plus years and Defiance is one of the main reasons why I refuse to go back. Oh and by the way I am not a kiddie. This is why WoW is brought up and if people cant understand the real truth about it then maybe they should stop playing defiance and go back to WoW.