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cesmode
04-23-2013, 09:12 AM
Hi,
On the Guild Wars 2 forums, I stumbled across a thread that had a link to an interesting thread.
Some of the things on this list, which is insanely extensive, are minor and some aren't even worth complaining about. But there are definate things on this list that really improved the quality of life in the game, and just goes to show the ebb and flow of a game development throughout the course of its life. WoW was pretty terribad at launch. After all of these upgrades, it is now what it is today. Next time you complain that there are so many bugs in defiance, or question why something is the way it is...it is still very early in this game's life.

Enjoy!

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/726876-Some-things-you-didn-t-know-about-WoW

chaosorb
04-23-2013, 09:14 AM
Hi,
On the Guild Wars 2 forums, I stumbled across a thread that had a link to an interesting thread.
Some of the things on this list, which is insanely extensive, are minor and some aren't even worth complaining about. But there are definate things on this list that really improved the quality of life in the game, and just goes to show the ebb and flow of a game development throughout the course of its life. WoW was pretty terribad at launch. After all of these upgrades, it is now what it is today. Next time you complain that there are so many bugs in defiance, or question why something is the way it is...it is still very early in this game's life.

Enjoy!

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/726876-Some-things-you-didn-t-know-about-WoW

Now I know you possess a modicum of intelligence to know NOT TO compare the Defiance launch with the WoW launch....

PseudoCool
04-23-2013, 09:20 AM
I think what the OP is trying to get across.. is how people are always comparing ANY NEW GAME, to the Juggernaut that is WoW. It seems after 8+ years that everyone forgot how HORRIBLE WoW was at launch.. how broken the game was.. how weak and puny the servers where.. etc etc...

And if you check the link, it gives you the 8 YEARS worth of changes, add on's, and whatnot in pretty much chronological fashion as far as I can tell.

The point however.. NO GAME is complete at launch, NO GAME is without bugs or flaws at launch.. and NO GAME stays in it's launch state for long :)

But hey.. you can always jump right back on the WoW-is-AwesomeSauce! Train.. I'm sure your Dark Elf Paladin Cleric misses you dearly :)

twistedcritts
04-23-2013, 09:20 AM
Now I know you possess a modicum of intelligence to know NOT TO compare the Defiance launch with the WoW launch....

Yea wow was way worse. sissy game imo.

AlbionsBlade
04-23-2013, 09:21 AM
He was simply saying when WoW was released it was bugged to hell which it was.

Eisberg
04-23-2013, 09:27 AM
To play devils advocate. MMOs that are made now are competing with WoW now, not with the WoW 8 years ago.

cesmode
04-23-2013, 09:29 AM
Thank you Psuedocool :)

BTW,
I haven't even bought Defiance yet. Dont have it. I just frequent these forums to keep tabs on things.

PseudoCool
04-23-2013, 09:30 AM
To play devils advocate. MMOs that are made now are competing with WoW now, not with the WoW 8 years ago.

And what MMO that's out now has spent the last 8 years in development and testing to do that? That's a good devils advocation.. but a horrible misconception by anyone who know's anything about the gaming industry that you can instantly compete with 8 years of work. All those systems that people want.. auction houses, in game mail, clan housing, storage.. all of that has to be put in on the test server.. and then tested and tested and tested over and over to make sure its NOT going to glitch or cause problems with the live server. That much from any gamer is common sense, and exactly why not every game out there comes with it at launch.

PseudoCool
04-23-2013, 09:31 AM
Thank you Psuedocool :)

BTW,
I haven't even bought Defiance yet. Dont have it. I just frequent these forums to keep tabs on things.

your Welcome.. and when you are joining the fight? :)

baelrusk
04-23-2013, 09:32 AM
Thank you for the link. Hopefully it will cut back on the whiners who constantly try to compare the two.
Now some proof to show them that WoW isn't as much of a saint as they believed.

PseudoCool
04-23-2013, 09:34 AM
Thank you for the link. Hopefully it will cut back on the whiners who constantly try to compare the two.
Now some proof to show them that WoW isn't as much of a saint as they believed.

It won't stop them from whining or complaining.. they'll do that anyways..lol But.. that's the mentality of your average WoW player, and why I've been away from that game for more than 7 years.. thank god.

Gojira
04-23-2013, 09:35 AM
I think what the OP is trying to get across.. is how people are always comparing ANY NEW GAME, to the Juggernaut that is WoW. It seems after 8+ years that everyone forgot how HORRIBLE WoW was at launch.. how broken the game was.. how weak and puny the servers where.. etc etc...

And if you check the link, it gives you the 8 YEARS worth of changes, add on's, and whatnot in pretty much chronological fashion as far as I can tell.

The point however.. NO GAME is complete at launch, NO GAME is without bugs or flaws at launch.. and NO GAME stays in it's launch state for long :)

But hey.. you can always jump right back on the WoW-is-AwesomeSauce! Train.. I'm sure your Dark Elf Paladin Cleric misses you dearly :)
exactly, i remember wow lunch it was terrible, and wow had more bugs than defiance now... and still i was able to play wow and now defiance without whining, if i see bug, i report it, if i have an idea, i share it simple and the best way to enjoy game... everything needs a time, especially devs for fixes

Salvador
04-23-2013, 09:39 AM
I think what the OP is trying to get across.. is how people are always comparing ANY NEW GAME, to the Juggernaut that is WoW. It seems after 8+ years that everyone forgot how HORRIBLE WoW was at launch.. how broken the game was.. how weak and puny the servers where.. etc etc...



its not that. its that most people werent around for wow's launch. wow launched with only 200k players. out of the 10million that play today, 90% of them claim they remember wow's launch. i was at wow's launch, and it still ranks as the worst launch ive ever experienced.

edit: its also thanks to wow's launch that when i play this game, i can still think to myself and say "well ****, it could have been worse" and appreciate that fact.

Eisberg
04-23-2013, 09:40 AM
And what MMO that's out now has spent the last 8 years in development and testing to do that? That's a good devils advocation.. but a horrible misconception by anyone who know's anything about the gaming industry that you can instantly compete with 8 years of work. All those systems that people want.. auction houses, in game mail, clan housing, storage.. all of that has to be put in on the test server.. and then tested and tested and tested over and over to make sure its NOT going to glitch or cause problems with the live server. That much from any gamer is common sense, and exactly why not every game out there comes with it at launch.

again, playing devil's advocate, just how many people who play MMOs even know or understand any of that. I would dare say that the vast majority of the MMO players are just regular consumers and do not have any understanding of everything you stated. So it comes down to "new MMO" vs "old mmo in its state now" and the regular consumer might just pick the one that is more polished.

For the record, I understand what you are saying, and agree, and I am willing to go through the growing pains because of that understanding.

PseudoCool
04-23-2013, 09:41 AM
its not that. its that most people werent around for wow's launch. wow launched with only 200k players. out of the 10million that play today, 90% of them claim they remember wow's launch. i was at wow's launch, and it still ranks as the worst launch ive ever experienced.

I was there for launch and pre-launch.. and without a doubt, it was the WORST launch I'd ever experienced until then, and probably would have to say it ranks right up in the top 5 most horrible launches I've ever partaken of. And that includes AoC.. *shudder*. I honestly think the only reason I made it to month 3 post launch was because I bought a 3 month time card at Walmart..lol

PseudoCool
04-23-2013, 09:42 AM
again, playing devil's advocate, just how many people who play MMOs even know or understand any of that. I would dare say that the vast majority of the MMO players are just regular consumers and do not have any understanding of everything you stated. So it comes down to "new MMO" vs "old mmo in its state now" and the regular consumer might just pick the one that is more polished.

For the record, I understand what you are saying, and agree, and I am willing to go through the growing pains because of that understanding.

And see.. you and I are on the same page.

However.. to counter your devils advocate..

Since YOU and I understand those differences, what are WE doing to educate those low information gamers on how things like this actually work?

cesmode
04-23-2013, 09:45 AM
@psuedocool:

Not sure. Took a break from GW2 in March when they released guild missions..game became another job that I had to schedule my life around. Screw it. Went back to Mass Effect 3, and been playing that non stop every day. I guess right now i am the third person shooter game binge so that is why I am interested in defiance. I just want to see if trion, who has a great rep, is able to iron out some of the raw issues of the game. For some reason, I am just a bit more patient with this one. I dont want to buy it and be done with most of the content in a few weeks. I want to see what kind of content updates Trion has in store for us.

PseudoCool
04-23-2013, 09:47 AM
@psuedocool:

Not sure. Took a break from GW2 in March when they released guild missions..game became another job that I had to schedule my life around. Screw it. Went back to Mass Effect 3, and been playing that non stop every day. I guess right now i am the third person shooter game binge so that is why I am interested in defiance. I just want to see if trion, who has a great rep, is able to iron out some of the raw issues of the game. For some reason, I am just a bit more patient with this one. I dont want to buy it and be done with most of the content in a few weeks. I want to see what kind of content updates Trion has in store for us.

GW2.. isn't that another NCSuck title? Man.. I LOATHE that company with the fire of 10 million suns and the cold expanse of space all jammed into a walrus sized suppository!

rolingachu
04-23-2013, 09:49 AM
WoW Was, is and it will be always a crap

Archangel
04-23-2013, 09:49 AM
What wasn't in that list is the fact WoW had 0 pvp on release.

only world ganking. no battle grounds no rewards. Really it was a large game that had you repeating the same thing over and over again. Once you hit 60 you still did the same 3 dungeons over and over again still with no pvp.

Whats interesting is when people here say the game is boring because you repeat the same things. But in ANY video game thats exactly what you do. You repeat the same things over and again. Maybe our attention spans as we get older are not what they used to be but this i just dotn understand.

Im still enjoying the same things over and over again in Defiance. Maybe this game hits my fun bone better than others. Just because its not fun for you doesn't mean its not fun for others.

Thank you for the blizzard history lesson. I hope people start to think about these older titles and how many patches they had to go through to get to where they are today. Defiacne will be no different. They will patch and clean and add and this game will be fun for years to come.

cesmode
04-23-2013, 09:49 AM
To be honest, I think SWTOR had one of the smoothest launchest that I've experienced to date. I am not saying SWTOR as a game is good...it..sucks. Sadly :( But as far as launches go, it wasn't all that bad. But that goes to show that even if a game launches very smoothly, it is not a garunteed win.

For me, bugs and stuff are not what would deter me from a game. The development direction is what concerns me with games. I felt bait and switched with GW2. I felt that Blizzard was taking a hello-kitty-adventure approach with WoW and ignoring what the game REALLY needed. Bugs do not concern me.

cesmode
04-23-2013, 09:52 AM
GW2.. isn't that another NCSuck title? Man.. I LOATHE that company with the fire of 10 million suns and the cold expanse of space all jammed into a walrus sized suppository!

hahaha. Yes NCsoft. Honestly, fundamentally the game is fantastic. One of the better MMOs out there IMO. The day they added ascended gear and began walking the fine line of gear treadmill(to which 3/4 of the playerbase thought this would never happen), and then began walking the fine line of "Play how you want to play vs We want to encourage you to do THIS"...I said it was time to take a step back.

the game world, the combat, dungeons, sounds, music, story, general gameplay..Love it.

jvp
04-23-2013, 10:09 AM
I haven't logged into this game in two days for two specific reasons:

1) There's a severe lack of compelling content for me to do.
2) I'm fearful that anything I do in this game, will immediately be reset upon me logging off, because it's already happened several times to me, and the people that I regularity play with.

From what I personally remember from WoW, it wasn't nearly as buggy as this game. I didn't have items disappearing from my inventory, I wasn't constantly being kicked out of groups when we joined instances, and there was a lot more content for me to do at launch.

Another MMO I played before WoW (besides EQ which I didn't play that much), was called Asheron's Call. That game had some minor bugs at launch, but again, not nearly as many or as severe of bugs as this game had at launch. I'd say the same for Guild Wars 2. While it did have some bugs, they weren't anything close to what I'm experiencing with this game.

I've also played several other MMO's, but I won't comment on them, since I pretty much only played the 30 day free trial before the monthly fee kicked it, and felt they weren't worth it. That's basically where this game stands currently. If it had a monthly fee to pay, I'd be gone after the first 30 days. Since it's not, I'll stick around and hopefully things are drastically improved.

This isn't the worst launch for an MMO I've been through, but it's easily the second worst with respect to the amount of bugs it has. I'd also like to note that I've sunk over $100 into this game, so I want it to get better, but in it's current state it's just not worth logging in.

Saboteur 6
04-23-2013, 10:44 AM
I really don't want to post a giant wall-o-text but it's worth a google search looking into the evolution of the MMO genre, Warcraft's influence, and why a current MMO enterprise is such a difficult endeavor from both a financial and technical perspective. The quick and dirty version is that :


1. MMO's require HUGE amounts of money and manpower and they aren't the cash cows they were in the same way that they were a decade ago.

2. The "market space" for MMO's has shifted dynamically with a plethora of games available. Where previous MMO's benefited from their pioneer status (in that consumers met with technical problems simply rode it out because of the lack of alternative games), NOW new launches simply don't have that luxury.

3. The expected functionality of an MMO (stability, features, modes) even at launch, is expected to be competitive with not only existing monoliths like Wow but other games that occupy the same space. This expectation of course is from the consumer perspective.

4. This effectively creates this "high bar" of expectations from the consumer that can't possibly be met with the immediacy that it's desired.

5. It's in this sense that MMO games have created a paradox. Each innovative, new, and established feature of an MMO becomes the expected experience regardless of new IP status.

Jay
04-23-2013, 10:46 AM
can't compare a launch 8-10 years ago to today. Hardware alone is order of magnitude better, as is software, INTERNET speeds and backbone networks..

Technodude
04-23-2013, 10:51 AM
can't compare a launch 8-10 years ago to today. Hardware alone is order of magnitude better, as is software, INTERNET speeds and backbone networks..

I agree its been 8 years. Stop comparing today's bad lunch to an 8 year old game.

Tango80
04-23-2013, 11:04 AM
I think the issue is that people still compare it back to an 8 year old game.
Notice that some people keep referring to WoW in one way or another.

You either take this game as is or start comparing it to other MMO's. Specifically MMORPG's. Most if not allot of complaints are comparing Defiance to MMORPG's. Specifically an MMORPG that is 8 years old.

Is it justifiable? Hardly While Defiance is an MMO it technically is a TPS first then an MMO so it's an TPSMMO not an MMOTPS. But that's just semantics.
Then you have those who are looking to UBER overpower noob's in game. Again going back to compare the level caps of other games to this game is like comparing apples and oranges.

Just Saying.

Chuffy
04-23-2013, 03:23 PM
I think what the OP is trying to get across.. is how people are always comparing ANY NEW GAME, to the Juggernaut that is WoW. It seems after 8+ years that everyone forgot how HORRIBLE WoW was at launch.. how broken the game was.. how weak and puny the servers where.. etc etc...

And if you check the link, it gives you the 8 YEARS worth of changes, add on's, and whatnot in pretty much chronological fashion as far as I can tell.

The point however.. NO GAME is complete at launch, NO GAME is without bugs or flaws at launch.. and NO GAME stays in it's launch state for long :)

But hey.. you can always jump right back on the WoW-is-AwesomeSauce! Train.. I'm sure your Dark Elf Paladin Cleric misses you dearly :)

Yes... and no. On one hand comparing a new game to one that has had 8 years of bug fixes, polish, content added, etc is pretty silly, on the other hand people expect standards to rise, in much the same way when I was a kid cars were a lot more unreliable, nowadays people would not expect (nor put up with) the level of "reliabilty" cars had 20-30 years ago.

But then low standards are an issue full-stop with the games industry, it seems common practice to put out unfinished products (often very unfinished), that would be unacceptable in many other industries, this is not helped by people making excuses for games companies.

Anim
04-23-2013, 04:01 PM
Hi,
On the Guild Wars 2 forums, I stumbled across a thread that had a link to an interesting thread.
Some of the things on this list, which is insanely extensive, are minor and some aren't even worth complaining about. But there are definate things on this list that really improved the quality of life in the game, and just goes to show the ebb and flow of a game development throughout the course of its life. WoW was pretty terribad at launch. After all of these upgrades, it is now what it is today. Next time you complain that there are so many bugs in defiance, or question why something is the way it is...it is still very early in this game's life.

Enjoy!

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/726876-Some-things-you-didn-t-know-about-WoW

Are you really comparing what is summed up to be 8 years of patch notes as a comparison to Defiance at launch? A huge amount of those were just 'nice to know' facts, some of them even were completely wrong and some just rumours.

If WoW was so terrible at its launch why did millions of people flock to the game? Hint: it wasnt. Yet more mindless WoW-hating because its what all the cool people are doing.