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Propylen Glycol
04-23-2013, 01:18 PM
Hi everyone, first post here, brace yourself it's freaking long :)

I lurk in this forum from day one and i think this forum needs more informative post (though i must admit i just loooove reading good forum drama ;)). Let's hope i manage to make one...

Here comes what i hope (don't promise anything) is an objective synthesis of some long debated problematics, and other misunderstandings one may have when starting this game :

It's a skilled based game : Yes. It's misleading, I'll take it slow :

That doesn't mean that you need mad Trueskillz(tm) to play the game ; obviously by all shooter standards it's not even hard for experienced shooter player and no you won't be awarded by an "elite few" aura when you finish main quest storyline (not intended to offense ppl who have hard time against Nim, i sincerely wish them the best in their endeavor)

What it means is that you will be rewarded (in term of character power) by showing your typical shooter skill (aka headshot). Have a look at damage buff perks, the one that increases crit damage by 40% when you crit hip shoot for example. Obviously if you can't hit consistently crit spot without aiming you'll get zip and having it maxed out makes your character no better.

The player that focus on precison shooting will have a faaar better arkfall/coop score than your basic 2/10 crit ratio player. And btw since weapon xp is actual damage done, a skilled shooter will change weapon very very often and max out his weapon skill WAY more rapidly, again rewarded. :p

The term skill is used to explain that, contrary to other mmos (since the game is sold as one), you don't have a gain by some stat (+%crit, +crit dam) proxing on your auto attack. you have to manually aim (thus show shooter skill) to weak spots to increase the damages (be it dps or burst).

It's misleading since the game is also sold as a shooter and the term skill has a more focused and slightly biased meaning in the shooter community.

I fully understand the shooter players who feel cheated by the "it's a skill game" sentence but hey how could you possibly enunciate this in any other way in the sell speach... (really, give it your best shot)


My character is level xxx : No. Took me quite some time to figure that actually.

First it's called EGO Rating for a reason (i know, i know words) : You don't gain perks by increasing your EGO level, it's the other way around : By maxing out the xp bar (bottom screen, yellow) you'll gain a point to spend in your perk and be credited with an increase in EGO rating.

When you accomplish pursuits you just gain an increase in EGO rating, NOTHING ELSE : You can have the exact same amount of perk points between let's say rating 350 and rating 500 if you just do pursuits and don't xp.

On the other hand another player who has the same 500 EGO rating may have way more points across his perks. So where's the catch ? simple at same EGO rating you have the same number of perk slots opened, so the one with more points will have more choice in term of perk to slot. Also level cap on your EGO power(s) is dictated by EGO rating.

Actually you have a character level, but it's hidden : It's the total number of Points you can spend in your talent tree, since this number equals the number of time you maxed out the xp bar :)


It's a MMO : (Edit) Yes but... (former :Errrr not really edited because it was misleading for some)

AT THE MOMENT if the game was just coop 4 player online it'll be exactly the same.

The fact that all players are online on the same server serves no purpose since : communication is wonky at best, you must add friend (xbl) before being able to teleport on a group member, it's fast paced action shooter (you help kill things then dust off), there's no thank you/help me emote, there's no perk benefiting the group, healing is not really needed (you're better off killing mobs and reviving), there's no way for the group leader to set a waypoint for the group, there's no 4ppl transportation, you can do the game solo without feeling the need for grouping (even more the only parts of main quest that would make sense to group -mini instances/bosses- are forced solo, that's ABSURD and counter productive).

(subjective) I have yet to see an arkfall or coop map fail. If there was more challenge, players will look forward working together and lone wolves would be happy to manage/brag to solo what the other "nabs" (yeah mmo and shooter community is full of kind ppl) had to be 4 to overcome, in other word everyone would be happy.

The game has no progression, weapons are all the same : Wrong (kinda...)

snip (tired/ too subjective / more polemic than informative : have to put more thoughts on it)

Btw yesterday friend of mine had a 16k+ crit brainshot at a hulker, good luck doing that with your 350ER survivalist and starting rifle. Big numbers DO come.
And the fact that ER 3000+ 4000+ 5000 don't post screenshots of their stuff doesn't help.

Hate or enjoy, your choice :cool:

peace :)

PS : English is not my primary language so if you spot some blatant fault plz pm me for edit and help me to improve. :D

ironhands
04-23-2013, 01:39 PM
It's a MMO : Errrr not really.

AT THE MOMENT if the game was just coop 4 player online it'll be exactly the same.

The fact that all players are online on the same server serves no purpose since : communication is wonky at best, you must add friend (xbl) before being able to teleport on a group member, it's fast paced action shooter (you help kill things then dust off), there's no thank you/help me emote, there's no perk benefiting the group, healing is not really needed (you're better off killing mobs and reviving), there's no way for the group leader to set a waypoint for the group, there's no 4ppl transportation, you can do the game solo without feeling the need for grouping (even more the only parts of main quest that would make sense to group -mini instances/bosses- are forced solo, that's ABSURD and counter productive).

(subjective) I have yet to see an arkfall or coop map fail. If there was more challenge, players will look forward working together and lone wolves would be happy to manage/brag to solo what the other "nabs" (yeah mmo and shooter community is full of kind ppl) had to be 4 to overcome, in other word everyone would be happy.

Really? "You couldn't pay a hellbug to bed you!". I play that emote all the time.

There are 2 player and 3 player transports - dodge hauls 2, cerberus holds 3. you're right though, no 4 yet.

You're missing arkfalls however, there are more than 4 players during those. I'd like to see someone tackle a major arkfall with 4.

I have seen several arkfalls fails, it happens. Not so much anymore though.

Jack The Bear
04-23-2013, 01:43 PM
It's a MMO : Errrr not really.

I have alot of problems with this, according to you, if its a 4 player co-op it would be the same. So it would be like Borderlands 1/2. I don't remember seeing so many people in borderlands because... Oh wait, it wasn't an MMO! :] You do make some good points though i just dont like this one!

Propylen Glycol
04-23-2013, 01:50 PM
Ooops have to have a better look at emotes then ><

Well didn't mentioned cerberuses (?) because, well they are only available on 1 instance and shadow war, so doesn't really help in open world pve... i just wish we could have those badass mutant truck :)

ty for reading :)

ironhands
04-23-2013, 01:52 PM
there are 4 big emotes, and 4 callouts IIRC.

I'd rather have a dark matter truck.

FAMOS K OS
04-23-2013, 02:06 PM
Really? "You couldn't pay a hellbug to bed you!". I play that emote all the time.

There are 2 player and 3 player transports - dodge hauls 2, cerberus holds 3. you're right though, no 4 yet.

You're missing arkfalls however, there are more than 4 players during those. I'd like to see someone tackle a major arkfall with 4.

I have seen several arkfalls fails, it happens. Not so much anymore though.


major arkfalls have been done with 4 players.
play late at night with a group of four and run all the minors and then head to the major.. its been done.. fairly easy as well since arkfalls are scaled by how many players are at the site.

Propylen Glycol
04-23-2013, 02:09 PM
I have alot of problems with this, according to you, if its a 4 player co-op it would be the same.

yup

So it would be like Borderlands 1/2.

yup exactly my thoughts

I don't remember seeing so many people in borderlands because... Oh wait, it wasn't an MMO!

Well i didn't deny that technically there's a whole lot of ppl playing the same game on the same server and that they can interact => mmo.
I just observe that without this server feature we would have just about the same game experience, which puzzles me. Plus there's actually a lot of restrictions which makes the game, well a 4ppl coop max with the game world acting as a lobby. Yes you can be 10 players doing the same quest at the same place and time, but to me it looks more than a featurette than actual solid gameplay choices. Hence the "not really" at the moment.

To take an example (funny one) : You can play Aliens : Colonial Marines with 3 other ppl and it's sold as a coop game. But since the player just tag along the main player story and the architecture of the game is exactly the same multiplayer or solo, well it's just a forced featurette. The real multiplayer part is pvp, so it's not exactly a coop game (and that i'm sure it won't change for this one :D), you can play coop, it's just not designed for it.

Anyway ty for reading and constructive reply :)

PseudoCool
04-23-2013, 02:12 PM
major arkfalls have been done with 4 players.
play late at night with a group of four and run all the minors and then head to the major.. its been done.. fairly easy as well since arkfalls are scaled by how many players are at the site.

I've solo'd several minor arkfalls.. and I've done two majors with myself and one other person (both hellbug). It's not really that hard if you have good tactics and leave the vehicles outside :) Matrons go down pretty quickly with a well set up BMG and a Detonator hitting them for crits at the same time.. it's like melting crayons on the sideway during July :)

Oh.. and OP.. nice first post on the boards :) Other than the MMO jab.. I think you did a great job with your perceptions.

Rhorge
04-23-2013, 02:14 PM
One big gripe with the OP: THIS IS AN MMO and it is to be judged and reviewed as such. Really. It is not an MMORPG.

Propylen Glycol
04-23-2013, 02:15 PM
allways cheer to ty ig and well i guess follow me is kinda help me...

Definitely mutant truck, those apcs looks great though but not my style :)

Stupid Drunk
04-23-2013, 02:15 PM
Really? "You couldn't pay a hellbug to bed you!". I play that emote all the time.

There are 2 player and 3 player transports - dodge hauls 2, cerberus holds 3. you're right though, no 4 yet.

You're missing arkfalls however, there are more than 4 players during those. I'd like to see someone tackle a major arkfall with 4.

I have seen several arkfalls fails, it happens. Not so much anymore though.

Hey fool the game scales arkfalls for more players in beta and full release. I have beat major arkfalls by myself in beta and full release because no one else showed up, so enemies have less health and die faster. more players equal more health more dmg to gain for weapons if no one else interferes with the kill.

Ikagawa
04-23-2013, 02:44 PM
Hey fool the game scales arkfalls for more players in beta and full release. I have beat major arkfalls by myself in beta and full release because no one else showed up, so enemies have less health and die faster. more players equal more health more dmg to gain for weapons if no one else interferes with the kill.

You don't gain weapon experience in Arkfalls.

nosworc
04-23-2013, 02:47 PM
One big gripe with the OP: THIS IS AN MMO and it is to be judged and reviewed as such. Really. It is not an MMORPG.

Your not getting the OP's point, yes it is an mmo but in reality it could have been sold as a four player Co-op game (Borderlands) and you would have the exact same gaming experience.

Ikagawa
04-23-2013, 02:49 PM
Your not getting the OP's point, yes it is an mmo but in reality it could have been sold as a four player Co-op game (Borderlands) and you would have the exact same gaming experience.

Which I really hope they're working on. Defiance fulfills the definition of the term, but it's lacking in actual practice.

Rhorge
04-23-2013, 02:56 PM
Your not getting the OP's point, yes it is an mmo but in reality it could have been sold as a four player Co-op game (Borderlands) and you would have the exact same gaming experience.

That's why it's a poor MMO, but still an MMO regardless. To say it's not an MMO is not even remotely reasonable.
PS: Please people, stop comparing the game to Borderlands. It's more like Lost Planet is you really have to do comparisons.

Ikagawa
04-23-2013, 02:59 PM
That's why it's a poor MMO, but still an MMO regardless. To say it's not an MMO is not even remotely reasonable.
PS: Please people, stop comparing the game to Borderlands. It's more like Lost Planet is you really have to do comparisons.

Shoot glowy spots on things until they explode and drop different glowy things?

Definitely the same :D

Buu
04-23-2013, 02:59 PM
My character is level xxx : No. Took me quite some time to figure that actually.

Actually you have a character level, but it's hidden : It's the total number of Points you can spend in your talent tree, since this number equals the number of time you maxed out the xp bar :)


It's not hidden. In the webpage of the game it's broken on sources of EGO rating.
http://www.defiance.com/en/my-ego/profile/player-hub/#!/totals

Propylen Glycol
04-23-2013, 03:00 PM
One big gripe with the OP: THIS IS AN MMO and it is to be judged and reviewed as such. Really. It is not an MMORPG.

jeeez calm down :)

First : I have NO gripe /w this game. Heard about it, tried the beta, pondered, inquired, decided to give it a go and support it. If i felt the game was bad (which i don't, and i actually reserve my final verdict up until i get the final dlc when i get all the content i paid 52 Euros for) i would just, you know, put the game on the shelf, say to myself "hey bad move but that's the name of the game" and move on ; not post on an official forum.

Second : One of the reason i bought this game is BECAUSE it's an mmo. I transfered all my gaming needs to console a few years back (when i set my rig to linux actually). There's no mmo (esp. a non fantasy, post apocalyptic, shooter gameplay one) on console, that's a big sales point which apparently worked very well on 360.

Third : I'm enjoying the game thank you very much for not asking just assuming.

Fourth : The whole argument MMO/MMORPG is actually kinda stupid to me, sorry. I won't see why this game can't be branded rpg as it has : a. quests, b. character sheet, c. customisable character progression, d. loot system. In video games only about 2 of those are sufficient to be labelled RPG (I come from pen and paper rpg so yeah that's not my definition of what an rpg is but it's the proper commercial designation) Diablo 2 is labelled aRPG, well this game is sort of a bit more than diablo with guns to me.

Fourth : You don't aknowledge nor deny any point raised in OP. You don't try to have a constructive discussion or even hammer point by point why OP is wrong... just monophrase underlined capital letters... with that i have a big gripe. But it's okay, nevermind, not my first forum rodeo ;)

Fifth : I'm just saying that AS OF NOW, some ppl may be disappointed by the actual mmo portion of the game. That's the reason we've seen threads like "this is not an mmo" violin, sobbing met with utter nerd rage. I'm trying to explain that both side of the argument have a point.

peace :)

PS : I may actually change the wording since it's a bit provocative (just love that irl can't help) and doesn't help getting the point.

Rhorge
04-23-2013, 03:01 PM
Shoot glowy spots on things until they explode and drop different glowy things?

Definitely the same :D

Which is what you did in Lost Planet.

nosworc
04-23-2013, 03:03 PM
PS: Please people, stop comparing the game to Borderlands. It's more like Lost Planet is you really have to do comparisons.

Are you anti Borderlands or something? It's almost identical. Ark hunters....Vault hunters......ahem

Propylen Glycol
04-23-2013, 03:03 PM
Your not getting the OP's point, yes it is an mmo but in reality it could have been sold as a four player Co-op game (Borderlands) and you would have the exact same gaming experience.

Yup exactly and it makes me sad : boooo gimme candy ! :)

Ikagawa
04-23-2013, 03:03 PM
Which is what you did in Lost Planet.

...I know. Which is why I said that. I wasn't being subtle there.

Rhorge
04-23-2013, 03:06 PM
jeeez calm down :)

Third : I'm enjoying the game thank you very much for not asking just assuming.

Fourth : You don't aknowledge nor deny any point raised in OP. You don't try to have a constructive discussion or even hammer point by point why OP is wrong... just monophrase underlined capital letters... with that i have a big gripe. But it's okay, nevermind, not my first forum rodeo ;)

Fifth : I'm just saying that AS OF NOW, some ppl may be disappointed by the actual mmo portion of the game. That's the reason we've seen threads like "this is not an mmo" violin, sobbing met with utter nerd rage. I'm trying to explain that both side of the argument have a point.

peace :)

PS : I may actually change the wording since it's a bit provocative (just love that irl can't help) and doesn't help getting the point.

Nice story you pulled out your backside. Capital letters =/= rage. Capital letter = hammering a point into peoples heads.

Propylen Glycol
04-23-2013, 03:24 PM
It's not hidden. In the webpage of the game it's broken on sources of EGO rating.
http://www.defiance.com/en/my-ego/profile/player-hub/#!/totals

Raaaaa C'mon : you have to launch a web browser, register a trion account, sign in with said account, and search your Ig profile. Kinda hidden to me, definitely not the Good ol' big numba on game main screen or character sheet.

I bet you're a PC user, you simply alt tab your game and launch your browser, nice and easy like you do for most games (no trouble with that and please no platform war, it's just you forget that a sizable chuck of the player base use a console).

Typical console player just toss the disc in the tray, are completely oblivious to game manuals (the what ? ahhh you mean the thing where there's a redeem code on it) and are just used to press A and enjoy immediately (that's the beauty of console : no adjustment setting, no driver updates, no forum search for troubleshooting just press 'n play)
The most used xb app is Youtube, most ppl don't even have IE installed. Do you really think it's natural for a console player to log to an other account on their telephone/laptop while/after playing... no. Last one who tried that was RE.net, what a success ><

If you're a console player, the joke's on me but still got a point :)

peace :)

TheRealTFreezy
04-23-2013, 03:26 PM
I'm just happy we are getting away from the kids hating and raging about the game on the forums and we are finally getting towards constructive posts and good reading. Thank you!!!!

Ikagawa
04-23-2013, 03:28 PM
Raaaaa C'mon : you have to launch a web browser, register a trion account, sign in with said account, and search your Ig profile. Kinda hidden to me, definitely not the Good ol' big numba on game main screen or character sheet.

I bet you're a PC user, you simply alt tab your game and launch your browser, nice and easy like you do for most games (no trouble with that and please no platform war, it's just you forget that a sizable chuck of the player base use a console).

Typical console player just toss the disc in the tray, are completely oblivious to game manuals (the what ? ahhh you mean the thing where there's a redeem code on it) and are just used to press A and enjoy immediately (that's the beauty of console : no adjustment setting, no driver updates, no forum search for troubleshooting just press 'n play)
The most used xb app is Youtube, most ppl don't even have IE installed. Do you really think it's natural for a console player to log to an other account on their telephone/laptop while/after playing... no. Last one who tried that was RE.net, what a success ><

If you're a console player, the joke's on me but still got a point :)

peace :)

I don't know what I just read, but I know it didn't make sense.

TheRealTFreezy
04-23-2013, 03:29 PM
I don't know what I just read, but I know it didn't make sense.

Made sense to me...

Seth Winternight
04-23-2013, 03:29 PM
I'm just happy we are getting away from the kids hating and raging about the game on the forums and we are finally getting towards constructive posts and good reading. Thanks you!!!!

Here here! About time to, I was starting to get tired of those threads. You'll still find some about, but it's not so common in recent days.

Taaltos
04-23-2013, 03:29 PM
NooO! NOOO! NNonononono!!

Please, not the 'mmo' debate again!

gothicshark
04-23-2013, 03:43 PM
Hi everyone, first post here, brace yourself it's freaking long :)

Welcome to your first post. :p


I lurk in this forum from day one and i think this forum needs more informative post (though i must admit i just loooove reading good forum drama ;)). Let's hope i manage to make one...

Actually after reading you post it is chock full of assumptions, and opinions, so nothing about it is fact.


Here comes what i hope (don't promise anything) is an objective synthesis of some long debated problematics, and other misunderstandings one may have when starting this game :

Your opinions, not fact.


It's a skilled based game : Yes. It's misleading, I'll take it slow :

All games are Skill based, the term Game implies it takes a skill to play them. Some games the skill is thinking, some games the skill is purely physical, but they all require skill.


That doesn't mean that you need mad Trueskillz(tm) to play the game ; obviously by all shooter standards it's not even hard for experienced shooter player and no you won't be awarded by an "elite few" aura when you finish main quest storyline (not intended to offense ppl who have hard time against Nim, i sincerely wish them the best in their endeavor)

But from your description you seem to imply that you are referring to Skill with Twitch based shooters, I do agree that being familiar with the Shooter genre of games would be a plus in this game, however the nature of Defiance it is easy to learn shooter skills while playing the game. As for Nim, he was easy for me it is another boss that gave me headaches, granted once I found the trick he became easy.


What it means is that you will be rewarded (in term of character power) by showing your typical shooter skill (aka headshot). Have a look at damage buff perks, the one that increases crit damage by 40% when you crit hip shoot for example. Obviously if you can't hit consistently crit spot without aiming you'll get zip and having it maxed out makes your character no better.

Well since I usually get head shots I do not disagree that it rewards you with quick death, ...


The player that focus on precison shooting will have a faaar better arkfall/coop score than your basic 2/10 crit ratio player. And btw since weapon xp is actual damage done, a skilled shooter will change weapon very very often and max out his weapon skill WAY more rapidly, again rewarded. :p

...also standing back and Aiming on an Arc Fall has kept me in the top 5 consistently on every one I have done.


The term skill is used to explain that, contrary to other mmos (since the game is sold as one), you don't have a gain by some stat (+%crit, +crit dam) proxing on your auto attack. you have to manually aim (thus show shooter skill) to weak spots to increase the damages (be it dps or burst).
It's misleading since the game is also sold as a shooter and the term skill has a more focused and slightly biased meaning in the shooter community.

All MMOs require skill, just having a Max Level with good gear does not mean you are a skilled player in any MMO. Just because this one is twitch based doesn't mean it takes more skill to play it. I just means you have to use a different set of skills with Defiance.


I fully understand the shooter players who feel cheated by the "it's a skill game" sentence but hey how could you possibly enunciate this in any other way in the sell speach... (really, give it your best shot)

As someone who plays both Tab Target and Shooters I feel you lack the understanding of the meaning of the word Skill to educate people on its' meaning and use.


My character is level xxx : No. Took me quite some time to figure that actually.

The Ego system is a Leveling system and the use of the term Level is appropriate for the Ego System.

"I am level_###_ " is the same as saying "I have _###_ Ego levels"


First it's called EGO Rating for a reason (i know, i know words) : You don't gain perks by increasing your EGO level, it's the other way around : By maxing out the xp bar (bottom screen, yellow) you'll gain a point to spend in your perk and be credited with an increase in EGO rating.

the Ego system is fully a RPG leveling system tied to powers which are used in game, some powers are defensive and others are offensive. This makes Defiance a Role Playing Game with out question, so it is both a TPS and a RPG.


When you accomplish pursuits you just gain an increase in EGO rating, NOTHING ELSE : You can have the exact same amount of perk points between let's say rating 350 and rating 500 if you just do pursuits and don't xp.

You gain XP from all kills and accomplishments in game, just driving your vehicle without killing anyone raises your Vehicle XP and your Ego XP. I do love how both your weapons and vehicles have their own XP as well. So that was a completely false statement by you.


On the other hand another player who has the same 500 EGO rating may have way more points across his perks. So where's the catch ? simple at same EGO rating you have the same number of perk slots opened, so the one with more points will have more choice in term of perk to slot. Also level cap on your EGO power(s) is dictated by EGO rating.

Badly worded, I think you mean to say different people can spend their Ego differently so they are not the same. Yes this is typical in any RPG. Each power has a cap but your choice of powers and the numbers of powers increase as you gain Ego.



Actually you have a character level, but it's hidden : It's the total number of Points you can spend in your talent tree, since this number equals the number of time you maxed out the xp bar :)

Not hidden at all it's the Ego Rating, its just not done in small numbers like D&D, a level 20 Paladin in D&D a level 60 Paladin in WOW a Ego rating 1200 Defense Build with BMGs equipped in Defiance are all the same thing.


It's a MMO : Errrr not really.
AT THE MOMENT if the game was just coop 4 player online it'll be exactly the same.

It is a true Massively Multiplayer Online Game. Yes the chat system and social interactions still need work but do any Ark Fall during peek times and see the 50-100 players all doing it at the same time. Do a Shadow War. Yes it has Coop 4 but then WOW has Coop 5 aka Dungeons, Coop 10/15/25/50 aka Raids. Every MMO since 2002 has this system nothing new, nothing that takes away from it's MMO status.



The fact that all players are online on the same server serves no purpose since : communication is wonky at best, you must add friend (xbl) before being able to teleport on a group member, it's fast paced action shooter (you help kill things then dust off), there's no thank you/help me emote, there's no perk benefiting the group, healing is not really needed (you're better off killing mobs and reviving), there's no way for the group leader to set a waypoint for the group, there's no 4ppl transportation, you can do the game solo without feeling the need for grouping (even more the only parts of main quest that would make sense to group -mini instances/bosses- are forced solo, that's ABSURD and counter productive).

Ark Falls = open world Raids Seen 50+ a couple of times on XBox, sadly everyone looks the same since the Game has problems showing unique models when 10 or more are in the same area.

Chat System need work yes but it is there.

You must add friends so as to play with them and find them in WOW as well, they don't even have a Teleport to friend option unless your friend is a warlock, or you are a mage and they are at one of a few specific locations.

The idea of a Group Waypoint would be a nice feature to add someday but it is not needed.

Also hardly any MMO has a mount which has more than two, this game however does have them in Shadow wars, and they are working on Guild Mounts for that purpose, so you are incorrect that it is required for a MMO and that Defiance doesn't have them, since they do have them in Shadow wars.



(subjective) I have yet to see an arkfall or coop map fail. If there was more challenge, players will look forward working together and lone wolves would be happy to manage/brag to solo what the other "nabs" (yeah mmo and shooter community is full of kind ppl) had to be 4 to overcome, in other word everyone would be happy.

I have, but I think it is because I play after midnight and there are fewer players online at that time.


The game has no progression, weapons are all the same : Wrong (kinda...)

The game is chock full of Progressions, Ego, Weapon Skills, each Weapon, and Vehicles all have unique leveling systems, on top of that Guilds will have a leveling system soon.



Hate or enjoy, your choice :cool:
peace :)

Peace :p

Propylen Glycol
04-23-2013, 03:55 PM
OP edited (so no mmo debate and i will not comment any further)

@Ikagawa if the post doesn't make sense, i'm sorry but i'm tired (and just hate typing) so it's basically what comes out of my mind. :/

To be succint : If when you want to know what your character level is, you have to log in to an internet site then it's not obvious (and definitely not where you expect it to be) and fits the definition of hidden. It's more natural and easy for pc users, it's not for console users. we tend to forget that we are all in the same boat here and oversee other platform different habbits.

Is that more clear ?

gothicshark
04-23-2013, 04:00 PM
Raaaaa C'mon : you have to launch a web browser, register a trion account, sign in with said account, and search your Ig profile. Kinda hidden to me, definitely not the Good ol' big numba on game main screen or character sheet.

I bet you're a PC user, you simply alt tab your game and launch your browser, nice and easy like you do for most games (no trouble with that and please no platform war, it's just you forget that a sizable chuck of the player base use a console).

Typical console player just toss the disc in the tray, are completely oblivious to game manuals (the what ? ahhh you mean the thing where there's a redeem code on it) and are just used to press A and enjoy immediately (that's the beauty of console : no adjustment setting, no driver updates, no forum search for troubleshooting just press 'n play)
The most used xb app is Youtube, most ppl don't even have IE installed. Do you really think it's natural for a console player to log to an other account on their telephone/laptop while/after playing... no. Last one who tried that was RE.net, what a success ><

If you're a console player, the joke's on me but still got a point :)

peace :)


You are really harsh to XBox players, I play on the XBox since I have a Mac Mini which can not play the PC client (tried it in Wine, Didn't work), I have IE installed on my XBox, also I have Crunchyroll, Hulu+ and many other apps, the XBox updates every other month and has since I have owned it.

I also took the time to link my XBox to the Trion account so as to get all the free stuff from Ego and other perks. As a long term XBox player I constantly use IGN and many other websites for information about games, I use many different web services in my day to day life and have no problem switch between systems while playing, in fact since the web is on a different screen from my XBox I feel I have an Advantage over PC users who have to Alt-Tab to look it up.

Taaltos
04-23-2013, 04:04 PM
You are really harsh to XBox players, I play on the XBox since I have a Mac Mini which can not play the PC client (tried it in Wine, Didn't work), I have IE installed on my XBox, also I have Crunchyroll, Hulu+ and many other apps, the XBox updates every other month and has since I have owned it.

I also took the time to link my XBox to the Trion account so as to get all the free stuff from Ego and other perks. As a long term XBox player I constantly use IGN and many other websites for information about games, I use many different web services in my day to day life and have no problem switch between systems while playing, in fact since the web is on a different screen from my XBox I feel I have an Advantage over PC users who have to Alt-Tab to look it up.

I love my XBox as a streaming media center and Guitar Hero/Rock Band arcade machine. Not so much for gaming. I can get most XBox/PS3 games on my PC and those I can't, I generally have no interest in. I use Wii mainly for my console gaming thanks to Homebrew app, I can play the old 8 and 16 bit games that I love. xD

I too have Crunch Roll, Netflix, Amazon-on-demand, and a few more streaming apps.

gothicshark
04-23-2013, 04:08 PM
I love my XBox as a streaming media center and Guitar Hero/Rock Band arcade machine. Not so much for gaming. I can get most XBox/PS3 games on my PC and those I can't, I generally have no interest in. I use Wii mainly for my console gaming thanks to Homebrew app, I can play the old 8 and 16 bit games that I love. xD

I too have Crunch Roll, Netflix, Amazon-on-demand, and a few more streaming apps.

I do all of the above, and once I rebuild my PC I will play the PC version of Defiance. However right now that would be tricky since I burned out my last power supply, who knew 1200 watts wasn't enough. Ohh well, but hey I have the Media Box (XBox360) I have a Mac Mini, so I'm still able to go one.

Sull
04-23-2013, 04:08 PM
PS : English is not my primary language so if you spot some blatant fault plz pm me for edit and help me to improve. :D

While I don't agree with everything you said, I'm not going to flame you. I think you are better at English than you think you are; probably more articulate than 50% of native English speakers.

Taaltos
04-23-2013, 04:10 PM
I do all of the above, and once I rebuild my PC I will play the PC version of Defiance. However right now that would be tricky since I burned out my last power supply, who knew 1200 watts wasn't enough. Ohh well, but hey I have the Media Box (XBox360) I have a Mac Mini, so I'm still able to go one.

Always good to have back-ups. xD

Wait...what brand and certification did your PSU have? That's odd to burn up a 1200W PSU. I have 1000W atm running tons of stuff, but I made sure to get a platinum rated PSU as I knew I'd have a crapton of crap running off of it.

Nightlistic
04-23-2013, 04:18 PM
Enjoyed the Post.

DeMoted
04-23-2013, 04:29 PM
Big misconception about Defiance... It would be a game.

This is borderlands 2 but without as much stuff in game and more problems lol.

nosworc
04-23-2013, 04:31 PM
Big misconception about Defiance... It would be a game.

This is borderlands 2 but without as much stuff in game and more problems lol.

Borderlands 2 would have been even more awesome if it was an mmo, Gearbox do this now!!

Propylen Glycol
04-23-2013, 09:25 PM
@gothicshark i'm sorry i won't quote but i don't know (forget but same thing, damn noob) how to quote individual sentences in previous post

Thank you for the welcome :)

About the intention part :

The "your opinion not fact" can be written all over your post too if you take it that way. I state your facts as subjective opinions to deny their validity, you do the same by reciprocity blah blah i won't engage in the circular logic that is the stiple of many forum discussion. On the internet, everybody is a smart*ss and an expert who knows better than the other dude(that means me included just to be clear).

So let's get over it shall we as there are many interesting things in your post :)

The skilled based section :

I think i've come out with an example so that we can understand each other : Let's take a truck driver, it's a job that needs specific skills. Every job need skills and specific ones. Yet it fails to fulfill the requirements of skilled labour (i checked on canada embassy website so i hope it'll be pretty close to NA/SoCal standards, since i'm from France there are huge cultural differences on worker status). I can say a trucker is no skilled labour but man won't i say he is unskilled. See, exact same word, meaning differs, exact same problem.

"however the nature of Defiance it is easy to learn shooter skills while playing the game" that my friend is what pure assumption not fact is (sorry couldn't resist, too good to pass on, won't do it again) : if you are an experienced shooter, the fact that you find it easy doesn't translate into easy to learn ; if you are not, the fact that you had an easy time learning doesn't translate into easy to learn. As a matter of fact some mob features put into place to entertain shooter players (the frequent dogding, the fall back when hit, the shaking when flashed, the random crouching) can make it harder to learn than let's say Gear of War 3 (BIG dudes+no need for headshot on normal+cover based). And the fact that the headshot hitbox seems oddly tiny doesn't help (aim the forefront : wasted shot).

And how do i know it's not some fantasy theory crafting in my head : forum posts, there are tons of it which are met by lawlskillz comment, which in turn are met with lawl noskillz game, then well flame war.

"As someone who plays both Tab Target and Shooters I feel you lack the understanding of the meaning of the word Skill to educate people on its' meaning and use."
Yeeeeeehaaaa !!!! Rereading the above example of this post may change your... opinion ^^

The ego system :
You seem familiar /w DnD sweet i'll have an easier time. first things first :

"You gain XP from all kills and accomplishments in game, just driving your vehicle without killing anyone raises your Vehicle XP and your Ego XP. I do love how both your weapons and vehicles have their own XP as well. So that was a completely false statement by you." false

you gain xp from kills and missions, that fills up your xp bar. Filling up your xp bar gives you a. a perk point b. EGO ratings (i think it's ten). we're on the same track here.
Fulfilling pursuits gives you EGO rating but NO perk point.
As of patch 1.01 leveling your vehicule gives you EGO rating (and again no perk points)

So if you go on a grind fest only for say 100 EGO rating you'll earn tons of xp, fill up your xp bar multiple times (let's say 10) and earn multiple perks points (in this example 10).
On the other hand If you get 100 EGO rating by just leveling your vehicule/completing pursuits you get zip (0, nada) perk points.

That's why 2 players having the exact same EGO rating won't (off chance) have the same number of perk points. A set EGO rating doesn't implies a set number of perk points hence can't be called a level by strict rpg standards (insists on strict, but i'm tigh*ss).

DnD 3.x example : would you agree with me if i told you 4 human warriors have the same level if one has 12 feats, one has 8, one has 9 and one has 10 ?

Granted it's a good approximation, granted again there won't be some huuuuge discrepancies (since about everyone mix pursuits with quest and mindless grind) You wanna call it specious, fine be my guest, you're more than wellcome but it's not a completely false statement. I have to be extremely precise in my RL everyday job : a+b=c more or less, most of the time is not what can be called an exact measurement. Bad habbit doing my best :D

Sorry if anything was badly worded, since you obvioulsy didn't get what i meant. :confused:

Ark falls = open world raid. Errrr not really ? It's a "random" world event, a multiplayer action where there's no organisation, everyone is a pickup left for oneself, and coordination (if any) is done via area chat hardly fits the bill for raid definition in my book. If clans could make claims on those arkfall (mixing pvp or pve perahps ?), that would be a different story :)

Adding a friend in wow game browser is far from being the same as needing to add them in my personal xbl friend list. I don't need to send a friend invite to spawn on my squad leader on battlefield bad company 2, that would be kinda silly. Saying it's because it's a mmo just don't do the magic trick to add any more sense (not condescending, tired so straightforward, in my own snaily chatty way ;))

About the "mounts". Most of the time i play in a 3-4 player group : just making a convoy and following the quest bearer doesn't cut it.
The group can be separated in different phases and you have to tp to the other players (oh wait you've got to send an xbl friend request and he has to accept before being able to do so).
Groups are limited to 4, 4ppl transportation is a nobrainer besides it seems that tracking the movement of 4 player in one vehicule would puts less stress on the server than tracking 4 independant ones (may be wrong no specialist here).
Never meant to say those are features associated with all mmos, just that it would give a nice mmo feature on this one (since he's lacking some ATM).
The cerberus erfff no ingame mount, it's a temporary mount with one purpose combat in shadow wars and in one instance, nobody owns it. If one 39- wow player said a transportation griffin (a temporary mount that has one specific purpose, is not owned by the player like cerberuses) was his mount well let's say i wouldn't like to be in his shoes...

I'm not harsh nor condescendant on xbox players, hell i'm one. I specifically said i put all my gaming needs on console, i was not forced to, it was my decision and a good move.
Suffice it to say that MS (no brand bashing here) is an american company who cares about american customers first. Hulu+, crunchyroll, all the many other apps you have well (in France at least) we don't ; i don't even know them (wish i did, allways puzzles me when i see an american xbl friend on an unknown app).
The manual part is an actual funny xboxlive moment ><" and believe me or not happened twice with two different persons.

Oo 1200W wasn't enough ! hell yeah, one more reason i'm a happy console gamer :)

Anyway enough ramblings,

peace and most importantly have FUN :)

ironhands
04-24-2013, 06:42 AM
Hey fool the game scales arkfalls for more players in beta and full release. I have beat major arkfalls by myself in beta and full release because no one else showed up, so enemies have less health and die faster. more players equal more health more dmg to gain for weapons if no one else interferes with the kill.

Hey fool, "I'd like to see someone tackle a major arkfall with 4". Did I say it was impossible? I said I'd like to see it.