PDA

View Full Version : An Open Letter To Trion



Kryopsis
04-24-2013, 08:10 AM
Dear Trion,

I've always had great respect and admiration for you. Ever since I first tried RIFT, I knew you were a company that strives for excellence and one that cares deeply about its customers. Nathan Richardsson's posts in the community section of the main website are an example of the former while my experience with Trion support has always been positive and a firm proof of the latter.

I love Defiance. I've been playing it since launch week and I am having a blast. Aside from PlanetSide 2, I've never seen such a successful combination of shooter and ARPG mechanics. While not without its faults, Defiance can subsist on the strength of its gameplay alone. The horizontal progression system, the ability to summon a vehicle minutes from making a character, the dynamic events... There is a lot to like in Defiance. I log in almost every day to simply ride around in my roller, looking for trouble. In short, Defiance is a game I wanted ever since I first experienced the total wreck that was Hellgate: London.

I am writing this to express my dismay over the rationale behind the recent changes to the game. One of the changes that I am referring to is the fact that roadside events no longer reward with keys. I am aware that pedestrian events such as 'Skitterlings!' should not grant 4 keys. This said, fixing the issue so that no event rewards with keys is extreme. Besides character and weapon XP, there is really no reason to stop for events anymore. Why not offer one key for a roadside event, 3 for a minor arkfall and 5 for a major arkfall? Alternatively, why increase the number of events in the world when they offer so little to the player?

As far as the contribution credit 'fix' introduced in patch 1.012, I find it even more problematic. Yes, driving around Marin and suddenly getting credits for a couple of 99er kills for your daily contract was silly. Nonetheless, given how mind-numbingly boring some of the contracts are, the 'bug' was a welcome addition. If anything, it should be a documented feature! As a consequence of the fix in 1.012, I ended up having to revisit Diablo Oil thrice in order to gather my 15 digestive sacs from Blastpods. The first time, I was part of 5-6 ark hunters doing exactly the same thing. I only managed to get credit for two Blastpod kills, despite the fact that we completed the mission. This does not encourage cooperation, this is not fun and, I feel, this goes against everything the game stands for. If you are not willing to revert the changes, at least let people get credit for kills and missions within earshot. It makes no sense that events scale dynamically to accommodate a larger number of players and yet often only reward one person upon completion. It's unfair to everyone involved: the one player has to deal with the increased difficulty of the encounter while the rest get nothing out of assisting him.

I am not throwing a tantrum or threatening to leave the game. I am not going to draw a comparison to any other games I've played in the past either. This said, I find the 'fun police' approach to patching to be counter-intuitive at best. Defiance doesn't have a lot of content at the moment so making the existing content less rewarding is a questionable decision. There are quite enough issues that need to be addressed without the team grasping at straws. For instance, some weapons have incorrect values listed in the description, cluster grenades and explosives result in people getting Arkfall rewards for dealing 0 damage and the counters for several challenges keep resetting... There are even larger problems with the game, such as the PC UI that I am not even going to discuss here. My point is that there are enough real issues with Defiance that can and should be addressed before patching fun out of the game.

Thank you for your time.

- A concerned player

Kanix
04-24-2013, 08:33 AM
Great post. Agree with all of it.

IGears
04-24-2013, 08:37 AM
Great post. Agree with all of it.

this... +1

Cutlass Jack
04-24-2013, 08:38 AM
Long post. Actually read it. Largely agree.

shadowkin
04-24-2013, 08:43 AM
I agree so hard it hurts. Please revert these horrible changes. If not at least revert them with less rewards like 1 ir 2 keys depending on size of the emergency.

Removing shared credit was a horrible move for a game that already almost feels single player.

Whoever u are i vote u into office!

Ded Red
04-24-2013, 08:59 AM
I agree whole heartedly...the game is still pretty fun, but it has lost the coop side dramatically...I remember when I first started, I'd be in a mission battle...others would show up and it would get harder...they would get credit for what I did, that way we could concentrate on finishing the mission...the other side is that when in a group, main missions still get done solo...what is the point of grouping up to help each other, if we can't help others progress in the game as well...really hope a moderator or dev actually reads this post. We are the REAL fans of the game...not just a bunch of whiners who cry refund at every turn...

thebigrig
04-24-2013, 09:13 AM
I agree with alot of the things being discussed here. I feel they could bring back the key fragment system, even if they up the ratio of fragments to keys. I hope a dev does get the chance to read this post as it does bring up some of the main concerns of players that enjoy Defiance and want it to succeed.

One way to encourage more co-op play would to give credit to all party members in a group. This way everyone in the group gets the credit for a kill that is part of a contract. You could even split your group to tackle multiple contracts at once. Bottom line is it gives reason to stay grouped up while playing keeping the social and co-op feel to the game.

kjacks05
04-24-2013, 09:15 AM
As a consequence of the fix in 1.012, I ended up having to revisit Diablo Oil thrice in order to gather my 15 digestive sacs from Blastpods.

^ This. I did Diablo Oil twice to get the contract yesterday, and only because I was the only one the second time around. My first visit to Diablo had me and another player competing for Blastpods. That cannot be the intention here. My suggestion for this change:if you are within the mission radius, which you can clearly see on the mini-map, then you should get credit for the kills. The current implementation is awful and encourages single-player play.

Hiero Glyph
04-24-2013, 09:16 AM
Great post and I completely agree. Hopefully Trion acknowledges their mistakes.

DejaVooDoo
04-24-2013, 09:20 AM
I wondered why I got so many fewer blastpods on my 2nd run at diablo when 4 people showed up. I agree it was nice to get credit for contracts when I was in the area. it let me know there was a nearby fight to jump in on. Admittedly, it was absurd when I would be in Madera checking vendor specials and randomly getting credit for collecting dark matter swords in san fran.

Sull
04-24-2013, 09:22 AM
I agree. Nicely put.

kjacks05
04-24-2013, 09:27 AM
One way to encourage more co-op play would to give credit to all party members in a group. This way everyone in the group gets the credit for a kill that is part of a contract.

This needs to be implemented. As a result of this, as far as I could tell, you no longer get XP or credit for kills by group members in a co-op mission if you did not tag the mob before it dies. This is ridiculous to me. In the contract for getting dark matter in Scrapworks, this meant you actually have to tag each mob to get credit for it.

Hiero Glyph
04-24-2013, 09:30 AM
I wondered why I got so many fewer blastpods on my 2nd run at diablo when 4 people showed up. I agree it was nice to get credit for contracts when I was in the area. it let me know there was a nearby fight to jump in on. Admittedly, it was absurd when I would be in Madera checking vendor specials and randomly getting credit for collecting dark matter swords in san fran.

Yes, but fixing one extreme with another doesn't fix anything. At this point I don't want other players near me whem I am completing my contracts. This mentality will soon become the norm and will kill an MMO that already has limited player interaction. Besides, we all know that players are selfish (or ignorant) and simply don't care about how this change will affect anyone other than themself. The pursuit for getting the kill shot at major Arkfalls has proven this time and time again. I say ignorant because many players keep shooting with no clue about the pursuit; I regularly need to remind others not to shoot at the end (and most keep shooting anyway, thus the selfish part).

Pyth
04-24-2013, 09:40 AM
The pursuit for getting the kill shot at major Arkfalls has proven this time and time again. I say ignorant because many players keep shooting with no clue about the pursuit; I regularly need to remind others not to shoot at the end (and most keep shooting anyway, thus the selfish part).
I've tried to tell others the same thing to no avail.

I almost feel like they should step in and make it so you can't land the kill shot if you're already gotten it, leaving it open to others who haven't. I've personally already have the Hellion kill shot so I refrain from shooting near the end, but like you said, most people just don't care.

Multigun
04-24-2013, 09:52 AM
I agree to both major points. I LIKED not having to play "selfish." It's not THE worst thing in the world, but I much preferred the older system of just being in the area. Now I'll be afraid to help somebody out less I screw up their contract or quest. And vice versa, everytime somebody enters the area of my contract I'll be panicking try to tag all the mobs before I lose credit of them.

boosted gear
04-24-2013, 10:01 AM
I have to agree with this post after reading it makes more sense than the current system that has been implemented. I prefer it being more co operative as it was before.

Nice well written post.

OGkush
04-24-2013, 10:01 AM
Totally agree man!

Vile
04-24-2013, 10:02 AM
Well said OP, completely agree. The main thing this game has going for it is that it's fun, and it feels like Trion have patched out a large amount of that fun with these needless changes, when there are many other more pressing issues that require attention.

Kryopsis
04-24-2013, 11:13 AM
Thanks guys, I appreciate the kind words. Hopefully this leads to some improvements.

RoG Goat
04-24-2013, 11:17 AM
I for one, enjoy the fact that you cannot get a t4 lockbox in under an hour game time.

Sdric
04-24-2013, 11:21 AM
Great post.

I like the game, yet the patches failed to fix the bugs hurting it - but instead took a lot of the fun away.

Before the "big patch" we used to search hellbug quests with a group of 12+ players and joined each other.
We played as a group, laughed about me and some other failing to get a single legendary within 23 tier 4 boxes - and still had fun.
After those patches nobody even tries anymore...

Now there are barely more than 4 people active at our teamspeak during daytime; note we're one of Germany's biggest clans out there.

This incredible key and event nerf really took the last piece of motivation away.

Elysiume
04-24-2013, 05:37 PM
I also agree. It's incredibly difficult to get a weapon you want from a lockbox. With the removed keycode rewards, it goes from a small chance of getting a useful weapon in an hour or two of play to a negligible chance. Keycode rewards were a bit on the silly side originally (you could easily get a dozen in a few minutes if you got lucky), but they're much too small now.

Nixiam
04-24-2013, 06:25 PM
I agree, there isn't so much to do ATM (specially if you don't do PvP), now I see no reason to stop and do the random events unless I'm really bored but, in that case, I'd rather quit the game instead of doing something that gives me no reward.
I would also wish to know what is planned for this game, this can't be all, is really not enough. Raids? Just more of the same? I trust you and I bought the season pass, but at this point more info is needed.

Aeekto
04-24-2013, 06:37 PM
I for one, enjoy the fact that you cannot get a t4 lockbox in under an hour game time.

This!
It was rediculous how fast you could farm for a T4 box that is usually supposed to have the "rare" loot.... but if you are able to get a T4 box in under an hour (because of the bug, that hellbug emergencies gave keys, what they shouldnīt) all the rare stuff wasnīt rare anymore.
Since it got fixed a casual player can open 1 box each day and hardcore gamer ~3 and thatīs absolutly fine/enough.
Now there is finally a reason to buy things from faction vendors and standard vendors, since you canīt get everything you want in one day anymore.... and if you realy want "rare" stuff like orange weapons, you have to do something for it like arkfalls, coops, pvp or docks/mines/facilities.
If you realy want more lockboxes, just break all the loot you get and buy keys with arksalvage.
And emergencies are still worth doing them for arksalvage, scrips and a bunch of XP in a realy short time.

babytears
04-24-2013, 08:05 PM
Keys aside, I completely agree. It's supposed to be coop, not a bunch of unorganized people running all over the place shooting at everything that moves. I preferred clearing area of hellbug archers and warriors while others tackle the pods and whatnot. Now I get no credit???

ArcHunterXxPattakxX
04-24-2013, 08:45 PM
Very strong post. Without mechanics to help each other in game people will get frustrated or easily bored. From kill stealing or just going through the motions. Reward us for helping someone out

Panacea
04-25-2013, 12:18 AM
Great post!
It really sums up the concerns raised by the last patches. Yes key farming was too fast before, but roadside events should give 1 key or atleast key fragments.

Mob tagging is the worst "feature" in any MMO, there is a reason most games are getting rid of it. In the current state tags are not even group wide, so every group member has to hit the mob to get credit. It's a huge fun killer.

Elandriel
04-25-2013, 01:16 AM
Nice post!

I agree with what you said and how you said it.

kjacks05
04-25-2013, 10:49 AM
Mob tagging is the worst "feature" in any MMO, there is a reason most games are getting rid of it. In the current state tags are not even group wide, so every group member has to hit the mob to get credit. It's a huge fun killer.

Absolutely agree, it promotes anti-cooperative practices rather than constructive teamwork.

Lollie
04-25-2013, 10:52 AM
I agree with the OP.

@Trion - just keep the game fun, don't patch out the fun things or the rewards - it's why we log in to play games!

Keep it co-operative, keep the rewards flowing.

joegamer
04-25-2013, 10:56 AM
I agree wholeheartedly. While standing around doing nothing and getting kills was kinda lame, it's worse to be trying to get your kills and missing out on credit when other people kill the mobs your trying to get.

FlamingNinja007
04-25-2013, 11:07 AM
I've tried to tell others the same thing to no avail.

I almost feel like they should step in and make it so you can't land the kill shot if you're already gotten it, leaving it open to others who haven't. I've personally already have the Hellion kill shot so I refrain from shooting near the end, but like you said, most people just don't care.

I tend to do the same thing. I was wondering if getting the killshot rewards more xp, though?

Da Senzai
04-25-2013, 11:08 AM
I agree with your post. Especially about the "As far as the contribution credit 'fix' introduced in patch 1.012,". I hate that you have to tag things now.

Before the "fix" I loved meeting new players and helping eachother out. Now I get annoyed when I see another player :/

PLEASE Revert the change as the "fix" fundamentaly changes how the game plays. and to the worse :/

I love the game, but this change is really bugging me!

Nolic1
04-25-2013, 11:26 AM
I agree with what you say here the fact you have to tag mobs sucks its that simple. As for the key thing I dont mind they dont reward you for emerginces but I wish we still got max keys for Arkfalls cause if you are not there from the start you get less keys or at least I do. I like that they made vendors mean something now though with the lack of keys I find my self using them way more and stocking up on a few weapons from time to time. And I even use rep vendors now which I never did before cause I could get more keys then I needed.

Tgreen
04-25-2013, 11:33 AM
I tend to do the same thing. I was wondering if getting the killshot rewards more xp, though?

Other than for some pursuits getting the last hit has no effect on the game.

babytears
04-25-2013, 01:41 PM
We should keep this high up on the board.

Taishaku
04-25-2013, 01:51 PM
Nice post, i agree.

Jad
04-25-2013, 01:56 PM
This Thread is way to rational for the internet, How did you guys get in here?

EvilOps
04-25-2013, 02:06 PM
Bump in hopes that when they are sifting through "what went wrong", this post is found.

Kryopsis
04-25-2013, 04:57 PM
Given the lack of updates in the past few days, I suppose another large patch is in the works. I really hope it addresses at least some of the issues I have outlined in my post and I remain cautiously optimistic that Trion ends up doing the right thing.

Tgreen
04-25-2013, 05:20 PM
Careful about the 'lack of updates' ... this has to do with the way both Sony and MS handle the patching process.
We'll always have to a week unless it's an emergency patch.

Critizising Trion for something that they probably hate themselves isn't helping anyone.

Mindfix
04-25-2013, 05:27 PM
Agree with the OP wholeheartedly.


Careful about the 'lack of updates' ... this has to do with the way both Sony and MS handle the patching process.
We'll always have to a week unless it's an emergency patch.

Critizising Trion for something that they probably hate themselves isn't helping anyone.

Sorry but this is not the case, Devs in the forums and live streams have already stated patching is already worked out and will not cost or go through a cert process.

Skeptic
04-25-2013, 06:09 PM
Op I think you hit the nail on the head I am willing to bet, a serious majority of the community feels the same way you do. I know that I am one of them.

Kryopsis
04-25-2013, 07:05 PM
Careful about the 'lack of updates' ... this has to do with the way both Sony and MS handle the patching process.
We'll always have to a week unless it's an emergency patch.

Critizising Trion for something that they probably hate themselves isn't helping anyone.

I appreciate the comment but I have worked for several years with Microsoft and Sony on their submissions. I know how it works. :)
Defiance was patched daily during the launch week (occasionally even twice per day) so I assume the current lull is due to Monday's big patch. Given the complications in deploying version 1.010 and the fact that it introduced a number of issues, I figure Trion is just playing extra careful and attempting to avoid past mistakes. This is all merely conjectures and should not taken seriously, of course.

atlantix
04-25-2013, 07:12 PM
OP is right about emergency events.. they should give at least 1 keycode.. 3 keycode for minor is too much.. maybe 2 max.. for minor..
besides that new system with contribution sux. i know.. for now OP should use large magazine SMG or LMG and try to TAG every blast pods while standing on the middle of the pond

zablnc
04-25-2013, 07:15 PM
Main post I completely agree 100%

JammyThumbs
04-25-2013, 07:20 PM
I agree with the op 100%. Even if there was a chance of getting keycodes from roadside events it would make for an enjoyable experience. Ego 1,200 and not 1 orange weapon because I can't afford to buy bits for random chance of decent kit. Not once has an npc dropped higher than a blue and all arkfalls drop is shields and granades.

StickyChief
04-25-2013, 07:21 PM
Sony and Microsoft don't handle the patching process for Defiance. Their hasn't been a title update since the first day, it's all Trion. Just a little information that needs to be known. Also this is a great strong post, agree with it all.

Schwa
04-25-2013, 07:22 PM
While I agree with most of your original post, I have to admit I've lost quite a bit of respect for Trion with the Defiance release. I go as far as to refer to the Defiance team as the other Trion, insinuating the inferior Trion. The $50 I paid for Rift was a better value; it bought a deeper game, and was better-realized.

Defiance is $60 for a neat little prototype and a box of promises. There's a substantial difference between the Trion that sold me a complete game in the box and the Trion that's saying "Well, guess you gotta see what's coming!"

I look forward to comparing and contrasting the first month patch from both Defiance and Rift. I suspect Rift's continued support will completely eclipse Defiance-- the launch of Rift has already completely outclassed Defiance.

OGkush
04-25-2013, 07:24 PM
Id love this game if they Fixed the hundreds of bugs and added more content, more importantly multiplayer content to the game.

Digital Cin
04-25-2013, 07:26 PM
This!
It was rediculous how fast you could farm for a T4 box that is usually supposed to have the "rare" loot.... but if you are able to get a T4 box in under an hour (because of the bug, that hellbug emergencies gave keys, what they shouldnīt) all the rare stuff wasnīt rare anymore.
Since it got fixed a casual player can open 1 box each day and hardcore gamer ~3 and thatīs absolutly fine/enough.
Now there is finally a reason to buy things from faction vendors and standard vendors, since you canīt get everything you want in one day anymore.... and if you realy want "rare" stuff like orange weapons, you have to do something for it like arkfalls, coops, pvp or docks/mines/facilities.
If you realy want more lockboxes, just break all the loot you get and buy keys with arksalvage.
And emergencies are still worth doing them for arksalvage, scrips and a bunch of XP in a realy short time.

Hit the nail on the head here..
Key codes should not come from emergencies, it was a glitch that they gave the same xp and key codes that you would normally get from an arkfall, and its was getting silly the amount of orange weapons people was getting on a daily basis.
When you have someone sending you a list of 100+ orange weapons they had for sale over XBL, within the second week of launch then you know something is broken.
I can open about 2 a day, without a problem and 4 if I go in for an arkfall grind. That is more reasonable then 4 - 6 in an hour.
As for the shared contract items, as long as you do some damage on it, you still get the item.. Yes its annoying that you have to do that, but again before the patch it wasn't working as intended, now it is.
Why should someone standing afk across the road from an area I am in, get the profits of my work?

nosworc
04-25-2013, 07:31 PM
I can't see this being changed to be honest, it was too easy to get keys before and the way Trion see it is, more keys, less people willing to pay real money for bits!
Very well put together post though.

Tgreen
04-25-2013, 07:40 PM
Not enough keys can lead to not enough players to buy bits very quickly I imagine.

Same goes for not meeting any other players in the open world outside of zergs or Mine 99.

OGkush
04-25-2013, 11:34 PM
I Really wish they would of just left it how it was

Tgreen
04-25-2013, 11:51 PM
4 keys per emergency was a bit over the line. Number T3 lockbox could be calculated in minutes, not hours.
(The fact that I still only got 2 oranges out of it is a bit wierd though.)

messiii
04-26-2013, 12:45 AM
Interesting....... as always.

Blablubb
04-26-2013, 01:15 AM
Youīre so right man! +1

Booshy
04-26-2013, 01:19 AM
Literally NOBODY does emergencies. For the hell of it yesterday I did one and was thinking to myself "well maybe there will at least be some decent xp out of it". lol, I gained half a bub from it and was like "alright, that's the last emergency I'm doing."