PDA

View Full Version : Timing of this game to late?



Triansou
03-20-2013, 12:04 PM
This is the first mmorpg that claims to have cross platform play that hasnt been canceled before it launched or they discovered it was to hard to do and made separate servers. Any way its right when ps4 and the next xbox are coming out it might kill the game before it even gets a chance. Am I just over thinking this ?

Archangel
03-20-2013, 12:06 PM
no cross platform play so i dont know where that info is coming from.

New consoles may be backwards compatible but if you remember. The PS2 holds the record for the most games made for it in history. Well beyond the making of the PS3 new games for the PS2 were still being released.

Avexion
03-20-2013, 12:10 PM
cross platform play? They are not making cross platform play they are all different servers, one for each system. It was one of the things they said, they could have done cross platform play in game, but they decided that the Sony and Microsoft companies would prefer not to blend the player base. It was a business ideal more then anything else along side PC, like many other games that end up with many different media locations they tend to be locked to that media format.

DustOfDeath
03-20-2013, 12:11 PM
yea ... The servers are still separate for each platform (and who know - perhaps region limits aswell), which in the end might spread out the interested population way too much.

If you allow consoles and pc-s to play at the same servers both sides will cry about x havint that advantage or y nerf so its not fair and balanced.
Its hard to beat mouse aiming with a console - so thats why majority of the console games have some kind of "aim assist" or autoaim and autotarget.... which feels dumb and easymode on a pc...

And unfortunately - more then likely - it will "dumb" down the pc version since the core of the game would have to remai nsame but still fit the consoles.

QuietRiotUSMC
03-20-2013, 12:13 PM
They have the technology to do cross platform but First Party (Microsoft/SONY) said they didnt want that. So its not Cross Platform.

Archangel
03-20-2013, 12:14 PM
They could have done it but like QuietRiot said. The big corporations put a stop to it.

Defy
03-20-2013, 03:37 PM
a) No cross platform play

b) I dont think its too late? people will be playing in current consoles for a long time. and am sure even next gen consoles might be backwards compatible somehow

rathb18
03-20-2013, 03:44 PM
They have the technology to do cross platform but First Party (Microsoft/SONY) said they didnt want that. So its not Cross Platform.

They didn't what it because they don't wont the console kids to whine that there system suck when they compete with PC, True story.

ZombieTech
03-20-2013, 03:50 PM
A couple things to consider here...

One: The debate over console vs. PC. Pros and cons on either side. Even when a console becomes obsolete when the next one comes along, a PC needs a few upgrades and can keep playing everything the same. (Except maybe a few tinkers for really old stuff, and now and again either a newer OS or an OS emulator.) Where as on a console, there's no need for constant upgrading as everything is designed around that specific hardware set... which is seen where a game comes out for both PC and PS3/360 back when the consoles first launched... and even now games come out for the same hardware on those consoles and plays fine, while the PC needs to be updated.

Two: Since the game is managed and downloaded through the console marketplaces, I would think it'd carry over to the next console, as would any other MMO? Or would I be in error on this? The only time backward-compatibility should be an issue is when you have to run the game from a disc locally I thought... I'd think if it were a service located out on another server (with game downloaded from marketplace to hard-drive [HDD]), it should still play... otherwise it might screw up business for a lot of entities. Not to mention, that's typically the same thing that occurs when older games are ported to newer consoles... like PS2 games available on PS3 marketplace, Xbox games available on 360 marketplace, and Gamecube games available on Wii marketplace.

Valethar
03-20-2013, 04:07 PM
This is the first mmorpg

MMOTPS, not MMORPG.

There are some RPG elements, but this is primarily a shooter not a dungeon crawler.

N0va
03-20-2013, 06:19 PM
MMOTPS, not MMORPG.

There are some RPG elements, but this is primarily a shooter not a dungeon crawler.

This is quite debatable, as there are dungeons and a story. Can be considered an Mmorpg/tps

If you look at the core abbreviation of mmorpg, technically all games with a story (protagonist/antagonist) are mmorpg's.

ZombieTech
03-20-2013, 06:25 PM
This is quite debatable, as there are dungeons and a story. Can be considered an Mmorpg/tps

If you look at the core abbreviation of mmorpg, technically all games with a story (protagonist/antagonist) are mmorpg's.

Agreed to an extent, though I think a footnote needs to be amended to say, any games specifically made for online play only... like for instance, I don't think I'd classify any that have an offline single-player mode an mmorpg of sorts... but that's just my perception. :cool:

Triansou
03-20-2013, 07:57 PM
Im considering it a mmorpg sure there are guns in the game. But Its mostly pve with dungeons etc and pvp is optional for now any way. Mmorpgs don't have to be dungeon crawlers they are usually open world with quests etc > Now this is coming from what I've read on the game I've yet to play it So I dunno how it plays.

BJC289
03-20-2013, 10:46 PM
there was supposed to be cross platform but since microsoft and and sony dont get along very well it was decided it wouldnt happen. its what the developers wanted. i had the souce around here somewhere. if i find it ill edit and link. i guess its heresay 'til then

Psychometrics
03-20-2013, 11:19 PM
MMOTPS, not MMORPG.

There are some RPG elements, but this is primarily a shooter not a dungeon crawler.

its essentially an rpg lol you aren't really an ark hunter irl are you? highly unlikely. what is likely is that you are playing as one (rping) lol rp has nothing to do with dungeons.

Fiancee
03-21-2013, 12:29 AM
If you guys think next-gen consoles are gonna be instantly as popular as current, how wrong you're. I bet current consoles are good at least 2-3 year.

Cyrox
03-21-2013, 03:18 AM
This is the first mmorpg that claims to have cross platform play that hasnt been canceled before it launched or they discovered it was to hard to do and made separate servers. Any way its right when ps4 and the next xbox are coming out it might kill the game before it even gets a chance. Am I just over thinking this ?

Let's not make any games before ps4 and next xbox comes out.

Cyrox
03-21-2013, 03:23 AM
its essentially an rpg lol you aren't really an ark hunter irl are you? highly unlikely. what is likely is that you are playing as one (rping) lol rp has nothing to do with dungeons.

well in that case every game is a rpg, you really aren't in black ops/hedgehog and what else :)

DustOfDeath
03-21-2013, 09:09 AM
yeah the few gameplay videos etc around - feel like its just another scify shooter - i barely see any rpg elements - rather just perks. Its more closer to battlefield 3 and such then a mmo.
Everything looks like point and shoot and click a few simplistic console style skills.

Archangel
03-21-2013, 10:20 AM
Its a MMO because its a massive multiplayer online only game.

Its a TPS because its a third person shooter.

RPG requires RP and requires character development as they go through the story.

The only development here are items and what perks you can unlock.

Typical RPG follows the holy trinity of Tank>DPS>Healer. Here you decide a ROLE to PLAY in the GAME.

This game has neither. You can be whatever role you wish and can change around to fill any role without having to mandate the holy trinity. This is not a RPG since you are not role playing the Tank or role playing the DPS. There is but one role. Ark Hunter.

I can see why people debate this being a RPG but any game you play a character your playing a role. Mario Bros, Pac-Man, Bubble Bobble, are these RPG's?

This is a MMOTPS with missions and quest which facilitate the RPG feeling but its not a MMOTPSRPG.

Otherwise we would have to throw RPG on every game title ever created.

Madden 95' RPG
Fifa Soccer RPG
Halo RPG
Golden Eye N64 RPG
Duck Hunt FPSRPG
Paperboy RPG

you could get away with it so lets just cut out the RPG.

MMOTPS. (^-^)b

Harsk
03-21-2013, 11:09 AM
So wait... the only thing that makes a MMORPG a RPG is being a Tank/Healer/DPS type MMO? That sure does not sound right to me.

Ambic
03-21-2013, 11:18 AM
They have the technology to do cross platform but First Party (Microsoft/SONY) said they didnt want that. So its not Cross Platform.

Who cares what they want? We are the paying customer.

SETit_allABLAZE
03-21-2013, 11:22 AM
Well the game is technically a MMORPG, Trion has said it, every other place has said it. So i assume thats what it is, since its their game.

Defy
03-21-2013, 11:28 AM
Well the game is technically a MMORPG, Trion has said it, every other place has said it. So i assume thats what it is, since its their game.

I think a more correct term is "MMO Shooter"

Archangel
03-21-2013, 12:02 PM
So wait... the only thing that makes a MMORPG a RPG is being a Tank/Healer/DPS type MMO? That sure does not sound right to me.

Think about anyn other MMORPG

EQ, WOW, Guild Wars, Rift, SWTOR

All have roles you choose to play as. You play as a tank, healer, or dps class.

List a MMORPG that doesn't have these roles you pick and we can continue to debate weather or not its a true role playing game. RPG means you play a role you have to fill.

Archangel
03-21-2013, 12:03 PM
Well the game is technically a MMORPG, Trion has said it, every other place has said it. So i assume thats what it is, since its their game.

Trion has said it to be a MMOTPS over and over again in the live streams. So whatever. we are debating over semantics now. Regardless, the game will be awesome and fun to play.

Ape One
03-21-2013, 12:07 PM
Trion has said it to be a MMOTPS over and over again in the live streams. So whatever. we are debating over semantics now. Regardless, the game will be awesome and fun to play.
^ in a nutshell

Archangel
03-21-2013, 12:20 PM
^ in a nutshell

Mojo-Dojo!

Man, for a girly TV show the Power Puff Girls were pretty fun to watch. I will admit.

Triansou
03-21-2013, 12:25 PM
Secret world had no classes, ffxi you could be all classes eventually and there are a few more I cant think of right now.

Archangel
03-21-2013, 12:27 PM
Secret world had no classes, ffxi you could be all classes eventually and there are a few more I cant think of right now.

FFXI you pick a role to play in a group or raid. Thus role playing. You wouldn't spec to be a WAR/NIN and try to heal would you?

Never played Secret World, is it a MMO? Are there roles you pick in the beginning to fill?

Also, I have in my sig the Beginers Guide for Defiance where they mention that Defiance is a TPS MMO game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTtup_5yk-Y

Link is provided here^ (^-^)b

Archangel
03-21-2013, 12:31 PM
Secret world had no classes, ffxi you could be all classes eventually and there are a few more I cant think of right now.

Just checked out Secret World and it has Decks. Where you pick a Role to play. Thus being a RPG.

Defiance has no role to play. Your just an Ark hunter who decides which abilities to use. Sorry, but had to do my research to present a reasonable debate (^-^)b

Triansou
03-21-2013, 12:33 PM
Secret world was a mmo there was no roles but you still roleplayed like you are in this game. You are playing as an ark hunter in this game which technically is a role.

Archangel
03-21-2013, 12:43 PM
Secret world was a mmo there was no roles but you still roleplayed like you are in this game. You are playing as an ark hunter in this game which technically is a role.

SW had decks which you played to fill a roll. Like FFXI

Defiance has Ark hunters, sure you can say thats a role you are playing as but in a group what would you say to this;

"Defiance group of 4 players talking before a co-op dungeon....

Hey, we have a full group!
Yeah i know. Lets kick some but!
Ok, I have the BMG and I like to heal. So im going to run around and make sure you all are healed.
Sounds good man/woman, I like explosives so watch out for the BOOM STICK BABY!
*scoffs - men... Ok i'll snipe then.

OK great! We have a healer, a DPS, and a DPS. Who is going to tank?
Tank? Do we need a tank in this game?
No but its a MMO so we have need each person to play their role.
Role? What role? I just want to shoot and heal?
Yeah, I want to shoot and explode things.
And I want to watch heads explode!

Ok ok. We dont need a tank I guess. So we are all ready then?

Yes
Yes
Yup, good to go, lets kick the tires and light the fires big dady.

*scoffs again - men....

Ok so what are our roles again!

(Everyone yells) ARK HUNTERS!

End scene.

There are no roles in Defiance. You each can do whatever you want. You will never need to have dedicated roles to be played where as in true MMORPG's you NEED, MUST have roles to be filled otherwise you can't even compete.

Otherwise again, ALL games would qualify as a RPG since your playing as a character. Like i said before. Is bubble Bobble a RPG? Is Zombie Ate my Neighbors a RPG? Contra? Mike Tyson's KO?

You have to put a limit to the Role playing piece. This is why Defiance, which has but 1 role, the Ark hunter, doesn't fall under the paradim of the RPG holy trinity of Tank, DPS, Healer which typically are played by a class that specializes in those fields.

Defiance has no fields of specialty. Just kickassitude (^-^)b

We all have the right to what we think of course. So Please dont let my perspective of what defines a MMORPG cloud your own judgment. (^-^)b To each his/her own eh.

Lets have fun and kill some bugs!

Maximus
03-21-2013, 12:43 PM
guildwars 2 did not have healers....

Archangel
03-21-2013, 12:49 PM
guildwars 2 did not have healers....

You had to pick the one game that promoted the fact that everyone could heal and thus a healer as being a mandatory member of the group was no longer required.

lol, well played sir. But GW2 still has Tanks/DPS/Buffers. Roles in a group which NEED to be filled. I dont think you could go into a zone and just everyone be a Mesmer and come out on top.

Not saying everyone could go into a co-op map with RPG's and snipers and come out on top as well. You'll need to be careful on ammo, and if things get out of hand switch to a BMG.

But those games including GW2 have roles. Multiple roles which are choosen then filled.

Defiance has no roles but the one. The role of a Ark hunter. This brings us right back to the circle of this discussion. Just because your playing a single character which plays as its own Role in a story does this make a game a RPG?

Again, Mario, Bubble Bobble, Paper Boy, Pac-Man, Peggle.

A game with no class system in place doesn't really make for a defining RPG type game does it?

I know we already decided that Trion sees this as a MMOTPS and we are off topic now debating what makes a RPG vs's not. But this is fun and im at work and bored. So lets keep it going (^-^)b

Archangel
03-21-2013, 12:51 PM
If we were to say yes, then every game is a RPG. How would we distinguish between different game types if all games are RPG's?

Thats where the FPS, TPS, RTS, TBS, MOBE (i may have gotten this one spell wrong) all come into play.

ZombieTech
03-21-2013, 01:49 PM
Just took the time to read everything...


...and...



...my reaction?




http://plaza.fi/s/f/editor/images/space_quest_collection_arv_4.jpg

Archangel
03-21-2013, 01:51 PM
Just took the time to read everything...


...and...



...my reaction?




http://plaza.fi/s/f/editor/images/space_quest_collection_arv_4.jpg


I knew i could rely on you Zombie Tech

Takehitsu
03-21-2013, 01:55 PM
Just took the time to read everything...


...and...



...my reaction?




http://plaza.fi/s/f/editor/images/space_quest_collection_arv_4.jpg


Lol you and your pics man... love em

Tr3nch
03-21-2013, 01:59 PM
SW had decks which you played to fill a roll. Like FFXI

Defiance has Ark hunters, sure you can say thats a role you are playing as but in a group what would you say to this;

"Defiance group of 4 players talking before a co-op dungeon....

Hey, we have a full group!
Yeah i know. Lets kick some but!
Ok, I have the BMG and I like to heal. So im going to run around and make sure you all are healed.
Sounds good man/woman, I like explosives so watch out for the BOOM STICK BABY!
*scoffs - men... Ok i'll snipe then.

OK great! We have a healer, a DPS, and a DPS. Who is going to tank?
Tank? Do we need a tank in this game?
No but its a MMO so we have need each person to play their role.
Role? What role? I just want to shoot and heal?
Yeah, I want to shoot and explode things.
And I want to watch heads explode!

Ok ok. We dont need a tank I guess. So we are all ready then?

Yes
Yes
Yup, good to go, lets kick the tires and light the fires big dady.

*scoffs again - men....

Ok so what are our roles again!

(Everyone yells) ARK HUNTERS!

End scene.

There are no roles in Defiance. You each can do whatever you want. You will never need to have dedicated roles to be played where as in true MMORPG's you NEED, MUST have roles to be filled otherwise you can't even compete.

Otherwise again, ALL games would qualify as a RPG since your playing as a character. Like i said before. Is bubble Bobble a RPG? Is Zombie Ate my Neighbors a RPG? Contra? Mike Tyson's KO?

You have to put a limit to the Role playing piece. This is why Defiance, which has but 1 role, the Ark hunter, doesn't fall under the paradim of the RPG holy trinity of Tank, DPS, Healer which typically are played by a class that specializes in those fields.

Defiance has no fields of specialty. Just kickassitude (^-^)b

We all have the right to what we think of course. So Please dont let my perspective of what defines a MMORPG cloud your own judgment. (^-^)b To each his/her own eh.

Lets have fun and kill some bugs!

ARK HUNTERS!!! rofl nice touch

Takehitsu
03-21-2013, 02:00 PM
If we were to say yes, then every game is a RPG. How would we distinguish between different game types if all games are RPG's?

Thats where the FPS, TPS, RTS, TBS, MOBE (i may have gotten this one spell wrong) all come into play.

I believe from my perspective I would then ask you what is it in your opinion that makes an RPG different from every other game. Is it the classical party rolls around to crush villainy and save the world. Or is it merely a game that has a story behind it that one goes to accomplish.

If you go back awhile FPS has always had a story but shooters are always shooters as they have been classified as simulators. A simulator is not an rpg base. Thus eliminating halo etc from what I would call RPG. The other class of game that has always had a story but has never been classified as RPG would be RTS or strategy (different types both strategic) The remaining types where all rpg's or arcade.

FPS and TPS were originally considered simulators then they became popular in my mind they are still simulators.

Harsk
03-21-2013, 03:40 PM
If we were to say yes, then every game is a RPG.

RPGs feature player-driven development of a persistent character or characters via the making of consequential choices.

Archangel
03-21-2013, 04:04 PM
I believe from my perspective I would then ask you what is it in your opinion that makes an RPG different from every other game?


Great question. I think i mentioned it before but to me a RPG relies on the holy trinity which revolves around the first letter in the acronym. "Role"

If you are just a character to play that characters part in a game. Reguardless of "player-driven development of a persistent character or characters via the making of consequential choices." You need to fill a rol in a group.

This group can be of players thus MMO's or otherwise. Or NPC's such like FF series. You have a role to play in a group that you put together. These roles have very distinct requirements to meet. Tank, Healing, DPS.

So for the "player-driven development of a persistent character or characters via the making of consequential choices." I don't agree with this statement because almost any character driven game could be classified as a RPG. Again.... Is Bubble Bobble, Mario, SMASH bros, Contra, Wolfeinstien, Half Life, Star Craft, Age of Empires, Civilization... Are all these games RPG since you plays as a character in a game with development of story and decisions you make which change the outcome?

I can almost say all games are Role Playing but what makes a game a true RPG. To me this means the trinity. We need to create seperations between titles as to not mislead people who discuss the games.

I wouldn't call FF13 a shooter even though Lightning uses a gun. I wouldn't classify Mario as a RPG but a side scrolling Adventure. Zelda/Link - this is a role you play but is not a RPG.

So i totaly understand why its hard to see what makes a game a RPG vs's not. This is why i focus on Role within a group.

Harsk has it right in some of the words he uses. "Character or characters"

You can control multiple characters or just one. But you need to fill a Role in the group. If your in a game with just 1 character and no group. What type of game can we call it?

A gam can be a RPG TPS or a RPG FPS or a RPG TBS but do we call it that knowing that all games could possibly fall under the RPG umbrella? Its assumed that you are going to be playing a character in a game so you are taking on that character role. But is this a Role Playing Game?

A Game for which you have a Role to play to actually play it.

So for me, Defiance falls under a TPS. Civilization falls under TBS. Starcraft RTS. Battfield FPS. DOTA or SMITE MOBE(dont know if this is correct)

We have to have some way to differentiate these games. They can all be considered RPG so we have to take out the RPG and classify them as something else. If i could draw a flowchart for RPG and other games i would.

Maybe i'll fire up Visio at work and post a pic of a video game Flowchart. lol

Avexion
03-21-2013, 04:08 PM
The fact is with the way you spend ego points you can end up with extra health and damage so in theory someone could tank more then another if they needed too, and some skills may very well hold monster aggro better then others if your getting shots off on an enemy. We have not really experienced in some ways. But I thought based on the intro bit I did see, there is the military and there is the ark hunters which may just affect the class/quest stories you do?

Archangel
03-21-2013, 04:12 PM
I know i sound very contradictory saying all games are RPG's but Defiance is not a RPG.

Kind of like all Squares are Rectangles but not all Rectangles are Squares.

ALL games are RPG since we are playing a character or characters in a role within their games universe.

But not all games are RPG games.

Making sense?

Again, just my own opinion on this subject. Thank you all for being such great discussioners (^-^)b

No one is right here since we all will believe what we each feel what a RPG means to us. So dont take my rantings as my way or the high way. I am only bringing up questions and how i process them in my own brain.

Zombietech, my brains aren't for you to eat.

ZombieTech
03-21-2013, 04:13 PM
*Snip*

TL;DR...

...just kidding...

...what I meant to say was...

...TL;R...

...but even that wouldn't be honest...

...because...

...I'm still just kidding. (Waka, Waka)

Archangel
03-21-2013, 04:14 PM
The fact is with the way you spend ego points you can end up with extra health and damage so in theory someone could tank more then another if they needed too, and some skills may very well hold monster aggro better then others if your getting shots off on an enemy. We have not really experienced in some ways. But I thought based on the intro bit I did see, there is the military and there is the ark hunters which may just affect the class/quest stories you do?
'
when you pick your different character type it seems to have no effect in the game other than your starting weapon.

And since perks and skills can be changed in and ou and be worn by anyone. Would this alone justify calling Defiance a RPG over the more obvious TPS?

Archangel
03-21-2013, 04:15 PM
Night all im off work!

I wont be responding till tomorrow so lets keep the discussion going then?

Or we all may be to busy watching the awesome live stream.!

I'll be there.

Will you?

Night everyone! (^-^)b