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Draconerus
04-29-2013, 05:56 AM
The contribution "FIX" is actually "KILLING" the game. No longer is spreading out and grouping up encouraged to complete contracts and quests etc. People simply try to tag mobs first or kill steal now as this new "FIX" discourages people to work together. This is a game breaker for an MMO or any social game.

I understand why this fix was done, HOWEVER, this should not be how it is in groups. In groups you should get credit for group member's kills and if you help someone kill a mob you should ALSO gain credit to encourage the social aspect of the game and allow players to work together to achieve their goals while encouraging a close knit community.

I know this has been said MANY times on the forums, but I had to say it too just to ensure my voice is heard and hope others will express their disappointment with Trion and this "FIX" as well.

Facade
04-29-2013, 05:59 AM
There was a post from a Dev back when this initially was changed that they said they were "looking into it".

That was literally all they put in the post ;)

Tyger
04-29-2013, 06:55 AM
I wouldn't say it's killing the game. i haven't noticed any real difference except that b4 I could stand in the general vacinity and get credit for others not even teamed to me as they mill about completing the mission. Now If i'm just standing there w/o helping it doesn't update till I start handing out lead covered pain.

So yea, I can see how "SOME" players might be upset about not getting credit for putting zero effort in, but for the rest that actualy pull their trigger more than once during a session, it's perfectly adequate.

Galactimus
04-29-2013, 07:05 AM
I think people forget that this is a single player game. The average player doesn't get private messages, party invites, or clan invites. This contribution fix makes sure players don't go and try something funny like "play with other people." This entire game was designed around making social interaction as hard as possible to enhance our single player experience!


Blank friends lists, friends invites that fail to send, invisible clan mates on clan list, clan tab that goes blank, clan chat that stops working, clan invites that fail to send, group chat that stops working, clunky chat display, private messages that fail to send, failing to join a friends phase, story missions that don't accept grouping, and now "Tag your mobs before other people kill it or go home scrub."


They are doing us a favor you see. Single player MMO for the.. win?

Ticon
04-29-2013, 07:24 AM
I think people forget that this is a single player game. The average player doesn't get private messages, party invites, or clan invites. This contribution fix makes sure players don't go and try something funny like "play with other people." This entire game was designed around making social interaction as hard as possible to enhance our single player experience!


Blank friends lists, friends invites that fail send, invisible clan mates on clan list, clan tab that goes blank, clan chat that stops working, clan invites that fail to send, group chat that stops working, clunky chat display, private messages that fail to send, failing to join a friends phase, story missions that don't accept grouping, and now "Tag your mobs before other people kill it or go home scrub."


They are doing us a favor you see. Single player MMO for the.. win?

LMAO! this was awesome u got me seriously believing yah!

SteveMND
04-29-2013, 09:52 AM
Okay, so my playstyle is a little different from other's probably, so educate me, if someone would, on what this situation was 'before' and 'after,' as I haven't noticed anything particularly new or unusual when I'm out and around doing stuff..?

Facade
04-29-2013, 09:56 AM
Okay, so my playstyle is a little different from other's probably, so educate me, if someone would, on what this situation was 'before' and 'after,' as I haven't noticed anything particularly new or unusual when I'm out and around doing stuff..?

Before:
If you were in an area where any quest/contract/Arkfall MOB died, you were issued credit.

After:
If you don't do any damage to an enemy, even if you are in the same group as the people doing the killing. You do not get any credit. (example: You and a friend are farming Skitterlings for a contract and to speed up the process take out 2 different sections; with the change you only get credit for ones you kill, and he gets credits for ones he kills. Neither of you get credit for ones you don't touch.

theyeti
04-29-2013, 10:21 AM
I wouldn't say it's killing the game. i haven't noticed any real difference except that b4 I could stand in the general vacinity and get credit for others not even teamed to me as they mill about completing the mission. Now If i'm just standing there w/o helping it doesn't update till I start handing out lead covered pain.

So yea, I can see how "SOME" players might be upset about not getting credit for putting zero effort in, but for the rest that actualy pull their trigger more than once during a session, it's perfectly adequate.

Ya, I really don't want to do delta bunker 4 times to get my 20 optical sights, even though I damage EVERY single mob and generally top dps and kills. I also try to kill as fast as possible as to not let other people get shots on so I have a higher chance to collect my optical sights.
This is the same everywhere for every contract, and I hate it. I like to share with other people, or use some strategy that doesn't involve bumrushing the enemies so I, and I alone can get credit. To get contracts done you either have to take 4-6x as long, or be a greedy bastard.

Nymisis
04-29-2013, 10:23 AM
Before:
If you were in an area where any quest/contract/Arkfall MOB died, you were issued credit.

After:
If you don't do any damage to an enemy, even if you are in the same group as the people doing the killing. You do not get any credit. (example: You and a friend are farming Skitterlings for a contract and to speed up the process take out 2 different sections; with the change you only get credit for ones you kill, and he gets credits for ones he kills. Neither of you get credit for ones you don't touch.

I was under the impression that the original intent was that no one gets credit for an arkfall/mission without contributing. That is something I would be 100% behind. Imposing it on individual mob kills though is simply stupid.

Swampster
04-29-2013, 10:23 AM
To get contracts done you either have to take 4-6x as long, or be a greedy bastard.

This entirely... and it blows!

Ciannon
04-29-2013, 10:28 AM
This is what happens when a few people cry loudly. The developers rush to the aid of the 3 people crying, and fail to realize that there are 24 other people who disagree. Because the 24 other people, didn't whine.

SteveMND
04-29-2013, 12:06 PM
Before: If you were in an area where any quest/contract/Arkfall MOB died, you were issued credit.

Okay, I can easily see where that was not working properly. People shouldn't be getting credit for merely being lucky enough to be in the area when something goes down.



After: If you don't do any damage to an enemy, even if you are in the same group as the people doing the killing. You do not get any credit. (example: You and a friend are farming Skitterlings for a contract and to speed up the process take out 2 different sections; with the change you only get credit for ones you kill, and he gets credits for ones he kills. Neither of you get credit for ones you don't touch.

Hmm, Well, for Emergencies, most contracts and other such 'random around the world' events, I don't quite see why one should get credit for the ones you don't actually interact with, group or not. Again, that's getting credit for something merely for being in the same general vicinity as someone else when they perform the action for you.

Now, for whatever experience is awarded at the close of an Emergency event, for example, I can certainly see everybody involved getting any completion XP reward, but if Bob shoots a skitterling that I had absolutely nothing to do with, I don't see why that should count towards my totals. Might as well just group up with someone with better skills and weapons and aim and just wander along with them, soaking up the XP like some giant sponge. Maybe I'm missing something here tho; as I said, my playstyle clearly isn't similar to a lot of the forum-posters, I've noticed.

(I'm assuming here the game works off a 'contribution kill' system, when something dies, everyone that hit it gets credit, and not just either the first one to shoot it, or the one that gets the killing blow; that seems to be my experience at least so far).

Grimjax
04-29-2013, 12:12 PM
The problem shines when say you and a friend group for contracts and are killing in an area together. Lets say the rocket guys at the farms contracts, for each of you to get credit one of you has to hit it without killing it, then the other can finish it of. It's just easier fo us to not group and farm our contracts at different times or different locations to prevent kill steals.

Should just be a single player game if that's the case.

Groone
04-29-2013, 12:14 PM
Rebounder Cannon - max xp, littlest work :D

Da Senzai
04-29-2013, 12:14 PM
I agree with the Original Poster. The new way, where you have to play like a Jerk to get contracts is very annoying.

AZAG0TH
04-29-2013, 12:39 PM
Like in the other posts about this, I agree with the OP.
I know WHY they did what they did, but the solution is worse than the problem.... far worse.
At the very least people in the same group should get credit for things.
As it stands my gf and I each have to "tag" mobs before killing them. It is basically ruining our enjoyment. Also has lead to a couple of stupid arguments over missed "tags" on her part.

I also feel that the new system encourages me to HATE seeing other players.. which is a major problem in an MMO.

Galactimus
04-29-2013, 12:49 PM
I also feel that the new system encourages me to HATE seeing other players.. which is a major problem in an MMO.

Accuracy 100%. Farming Verdant Ridge for Rockets is a great way to finish your 15 Rockets contract. Until another player comes along, kills the respawning Rocket raiders, fixes your generator, and you're forced to start the mission over. I now dread seeing other people when I'm farming such contracts. And Delta bunker.. that was just a horrid experience in general.

NightfallRob
04-29-2013, 01:38 PM
Okay, I can easily see where that was not working properly. People shouldn't be getting credit for merely being lucky enough to be in the area when something goes down.



Hmm, Well, for Emergencies, most contracts and other such 'random around the world' events, I don't quite see why one should get credit for the ones you don't actually interact with, group or not. Again, that's getting credit for something merely for being in the same general vicinity as someone else when they perform the action for you.

Now, for whatever experience is awarded at the close of an Emergency event, for example, I can certainly see everybody involved getting any completion XP reward, but if Bob shoots a skitterling that I had absolutely nothing to do with, I don't see why that should count towards my totals. Might as well just group up with someone with better skills and weapons and aim and just wander along with them, soaking up the XP like some giant sponge. Maybe I'm missing something here tho; as I said, my playstyle clearly isn't similar to a lot of the forum-posters, I've noticed.

(I'm assuming here the game works off a 'contribution kill' system, when something dies, everyone that hit it gets credit, and not just either the first one to shoot it, or the one that gets the killing blow; that seems to be my experience at least so far).

In terms of who did what, you have a point. However, what you're missing is that the original method encouraged social play. Even though people were receiving credit for what they did not necessarily do, it's better in an MMO to encourage social play-styles than it is to emphasize individual responsibility. Ultimately, this is a game, and shouldn't be taken too seriously. Grouping up is more fun and should be more important than did I shoot 19 or 20 whatevers.

Roan Valorin
04-29-2013, 02:26 PM
I just got this game and I came into this game expecting how it is now. Getting credit for something you didn't do just sounds ridiculous.

If I joined before this fix I woulda found it very odd that i was getting credit for nothing and then parked myself every night at "hot spots" for some easy xp i suppose.

Galactimus
04-29-2013, 02:37 PM
"Collect 20 Optical Sights in Delta Bunker"

You think getting credit for something you didn't shoot would be absurd. But then you enter this 4 player COOP map and realize how absurd the system has become. There are 7(?) enemies in Delta bunker that drop an optical sight. And they are one of the easiest enemy types in the bunker to kill. Very low health.

Your "cooperative" team mates are now rushing ahead of you so they can one-shot these 7 mobs before you can. If you are new to this pursuit good luck even tagging two of them. If someone is running in with a Mass Cannon good luck even tagging one of them. You are completing this map cooperately but you are not given shared credit even when you're on the same team. This pursuit has now come up three times in-game which is mainly why people are starting to hate this contribution nerf.

Another example is killing Blast pods at the Diablo Refinery. You team up with some random person whose already there to tackle this side mission. While you are killing mobs he is rushing ahead and killing all of the blast pods. You worked together to complete this mission but only he is given any credit towards the pursuit for killing blast pods. In the past both players would get credit. They didn't have rush ahead, kill steal, and dread the thought of other players showing up and doing the same.

Facade
04-29-2013, 02:39 PM
I just got this game and I came into this game expecting how it is now. Getting credit for something you didn't do just sounds ridiculous.

If I joined before this fix I woulda found it very odd that i was getting credit for nothing and then parked myself every night at "hot spots" for some easy xp i suppose.

The issue isn't that they fixed that you can't stand around and leech of people (why don't people get this?), it's that even in a group if you are all taking out enemies stuff happening in your group doesn't count for you.

Roan Valorin
04-29-2013, 02:45 PM
Sounds like people are seeing a bug as a feature and exploding on them like it was intended.

Im sure group play should still work in their eyes with sharing kills. but changing features tend to bring up unexpected results. I foresee this being worked on. It's not game breaking, just frustrating atm it seems. And if you claim it game breaking, then you dont know what game breaking is.

And before anyone thinks im supporting the no sharing in group, you're wrong.

Facade
04-29-2013, 02:47 PM
Sounds like people are seeing a bug as a feature and exploding on them like it was intended.

Im sure group play should still work in their eyes with sharing kills. but changing features tend to bring up unexpected results. I foresee this being worked on. It's not game breaking, just frustrating atm it seems. And if you claim it game breaking, then you dont know what game breaking is.

And before anyone thinks im supporting the no sharing in group, you're wrong.

I don't think it's game breaking, but there is something wrong when you DON'T want your friends or anyone near you questing because of it.

TE5LA
04-29-2013, 03:53 PM
This is what happens when a few people cry loudly. The developers rush to the aid of the 3 people crying, and fail to realize that there are 24 other people who disagree. Because the 24 other people, didn't whine.
Hey, like I always say:

"If it ain't fixed, why break it?"

Swampster
04-29-2013, 05:13 PM
I just did Delta Bunker again... despite playing like an ******* and trying to tag everything and everything, getting the highest kill count, and highest damage. I still only managed to get 3 of the damned sights, if I'd played in my usual manner I might have been lucky to get one.

I don't think trying 'force' me to do Delta Bunker (or whatever other stupid tag race) 5-6 times a night to complete a 'daily' is going to be all that endearing going forward... :/

Draconerus
04-29-2013, 10:19 PM
Yeah, it's ridiculous trying to complete contracts atm.

BrassRazoo
04-29-2013, 10:38 PM
Delta Bunker is the worst for this.
I tend to try and "share" but after 3 or 4 runs I go screw it and just try and scab everything .. still doesn't work all that well.

Ashvan Aeronor
04-29-2013, 11:43 PM
Honestly doesent like this change either. It doesent encourage Group play at all.
Just an example. If we look into the future of Defiance like they have written in their New blog. Plan is to implent New content With harder Challenges. Lets just say that one player then is required to heal other team mates. In any scenario that player then wont be rewarded With quest items since he is healing? In my opinion this is a stepback in gameplay and the fun of grouping up With others.

Fiontar
04-30-2013, 12:47 AM
The contribution "FIX" is actually "KILLING" the game. No longer is spreading out and grouping up encouraged to complete contracts and quests etc. People simply try to tag mobs first or kill steal now as this new "FIX" discourages people to work together. This is a game breaker for an MMO or any social game.

I understand why this fix was done, HOWEVER, this should not be how it is in groups. In groups you should get credit for group member's kills and if you help someone kill a mob you should ALSO gain credit to encourage the social aspect of the game and allow players to work together to achieve their goals while encouraging a close knit community.

I know this has been said MANY times on the forums, but I had to say it too just to ensure my voice is heard and hope others will express their disappointment with Trion and this "FIX" as well.

I completely agree. Sort of makes it seem like the developers just want to suicide the game so they can go about devoting their time and effort on another project. It's baffling to me that any one at Trion could have ever thought this fix was a good idea.

Frankly, the game is hanging on by the barest thread that is the ability of the remaining players to find some small enjoyment from continued play. Nothing and I mean nothing, at this point, that has even the slightest chance of making the game even the least bit less enjoyable should get any consideration from the developers for the next three months. I wouldn't nerf anything, nada, not because there aren't some balance issues here, but because any nerf will knock another bunch of players right out of the game, with few likely to return.

They can't afford to do anything that sours the player base and, frankly, they already have way too much work ahead of them to even be thinking about balance right now.

The game was obviously seriously rushed. It doesn't even come close to minimum expectations for a modern MMO and what it does deliver is full of serious buginess. In spite of all that the game lacks, some people still manage to find some fun from it. The moment it stops being fun, it really loses what little it has to offer.

The game needs to be a lot more fun to a lot more people before they can even consider that the playerbase will be ready to accept any "necessary" nerfs and even then, they better make adjustments with a laser scalpel to the nearest millimeter, because the game just doesn't offer enough, nor have the developers built sufficient good will with players, to nerf anything in a ham handed manner.

twitch reflex
04-30-2013, 01:52 AM
Yeah this new fix isn't good. I waited for a while to get the emergency that spawns 2 electric archers. And while reviving someone another person killed them. This is not fun. It makes you not want to play with friends or help others.

Da Senzai
04-30-2013, 08:22 AM
I just read todays community-blog, where the listed a lot of the thing Trion "heard" that we wanted. Im not that good a reading english, but I did not see them, mention "contribution reward system changed back" as something they have heard the players want.

This is strange I think, as this problem here are my number 1 issue now. I love the game, but it is annoying im forced to play in a way that I not only thinj is boring, but and also frustrate other players at the same time.

Mischief_
04-30-2013, 09:30 AM
Before this change, you would actually help people out when you found yourself in the same area.. Both getting credit for the same objectives, even things to collect for the pursuits and goals.. This did help me feel like I wasnt alone out there, same went for emergencies.. Even tho it seems everyone that plays this game is blind deaf and mute when it comes to chat in this game.. You still got that sense that other people are there and will help you..

Lets fast forward, I was collecting samples for one of the new pursuits.. And low and behold, a Troll appears.. Knowing that what I was doing repeatedly killed the samples making it hard for me to collect them.. No big deal really, im not a cry baby.. I called him a **** and went about my ways.. But this new system could lead to some of the worst grieving in the game yet..

But in the end its my fault, like its all our own faults if we have complaints about this game.. I took a chance on a game that dared to be cross platform.. I didnt know it was gonna be a single player game that has a open world where other people can run around in same time as me.....

Seraph_Knight777
04-30-2013, 01:44 PM
I didn't know bout this til I read through this forum. Kinda sucks. Now I can kinda guess why the percentage of random people I group up with during co-op runs rush a bit more. . .I can understand why the devs changed it to this way to prevent afk farming and what not, but at least limit it to players that aren't in a group. Players in groups should have EXP sharing. Imo, the rule of not killing, or not helping kill enemy mobs doesn't give you EXP is fine with me. Why reward someone that didn't do , or contribute anything?

off topic. . . my dumb *** posted this in the wrong thread lol. . .
> .>
<. <
xD
> .>

TC93
04-30-2013, 02:04 PM
I think people forget that this is a single player game. The average player doesn't get private messages, party invites, or clan invites. This contribution fix makes sure players don't go and try something funny like "play with other people." This entire game was designed around making social interaction as hard as possible to enhance our single player experience!


Blank friends lists, friends invites that fail to send, invisible clan mates on clan list, clan tab that goes blank, clan chat that stops working, clan invites that fail to send, group chat that stops working, clunky chat display, private messages that fail to send, failing to join a friends phase, story missions that don't accept grouping, and now "Tag your mobs before other people kill it or go home scrub."


They are doing us a favor you see. Single player MMO for the.. win?

They really need to change this user interface for the PC, its just awful.

Just the other day I realized I was a member of a Clan, yet I don't ever recall even receiving an invite.

I know they like to brag the game up as being for all platforms, but that is NOT a good thing. PC's are the only true MMO machines.

Draconerus
05-03-2013, 08:37 AM
I'm surprised this still has not been fixed.

BubbaKeg
05-03-2013, 10:26 AM
The contribution "FIX" is actually "KILLING" the game. No longer is spreading out and grouping up encouraged to complete contracts and quests etc. People simply try to tag mobs first or kill steal now as this new "FIX" discourages people to work together. This is a game breaker for an MMO or any social game.

I understand why this fix was done, HOWEVER, this should not be how it is in groups. In groups you should get credit for group member's kills and if you help someone kill a mob you should ALSO gain credit to encourage the social aspect of the game and allow players to work together to achieve their goals while encouraging a close knit community.

I know this has been said MANY times on the forums, but I had to say it too just to ensure my voice is heard and hope others will express their disappointment with Trion and this "FIX" as well.

+1 for this. Its really lame now running around with my group mates going " did you shoot it yet? " so that we can all get credit. Making things much more annoying, not to mention how much longer things take to do now. For grouping, this "fix" isn't working. I understand why they fixed just being in the vacinity of other non-group members, but not getting credit when you're grouped up just isn't working out.

Not much in this game is working out...

AZAG0TH
05-03-2013, 01:01 PM
I'm surprised we haven't even heard anything after the "we're looking into it" post. It's disheartening to say the least. I truly hope they either make group exceptions to the new method - or even revert it to the old way. I don't care - I just hate it the way it is.

Philip017
05-03-2013, 01:32 PM
I just did Delta Bunker again... despite playing like an ******* and trying to tag everything and everything, getting the highest kill count, and highest damage. I still only managed to get 3 of the damned sights, if I'd played in my usual manner I might have been lucky to get one.

I don't think trying 'force' me to do Delta Bunker (or whatever other stupid tag race) 5-6 times a night to complete a 'daily' is going to be all that endearing going forward... :/

i haven't had to do this the last couple of days, thanks to different objectives, hopefully they will pull it because of this issue? personally delta bunker should be a one run and done to get all the sights, like every other map seems to be, it may have been originally designed as such before they made it tag to win, but after it was just broken, i simply decide not to do it any more. i can be a selfish tag everything and kill as much as i can and make it in 4 runs, but one is all it should take.

i would like them to return it to credit for being in the area, with the exception that you have to tag something in the area with in the last xx seconds to get credit, if you are afk, you get nothing, maybe they can make it more than just running over a skittering in the area before you get the mission credit...

also it's so hard to get out of your car lately, come to a stop, or real near it and then wait another second to finally bail out :confused: