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J1xx3r
04-29-2013, 06:05 AM
Hello,

The talkGEEK community have finished their review on this game. We will be revisiting the game after a few months for an update to see how things are progressing. We do not give scores, just relevant feed back for gamers and developers.

talkGEEK Review for Defiance (http://www.talkgeek.net/reviews/defiance.3/)

Wish the Devs all the best in the future and good luck.

Thanks for reading, have fun all :-)

Oceanhawk
04-29-2013, 06:18 AM
Great review and exactly on target. Although I suggest you Geeks put on flame resistant underwear because the fanbois will be firing up the flame throwers soon. Although thee aren't as many fanboi's these days as most have already moved on to their next game-du-jour.

J1xx3r
04-29-2013, 06:40 AM
Thanks mate, our intention is to be truthful and the game is only really put in a bad light from a Veteran Community point of view as we are quite hardcore on MMO's we do get through them quickly and want community content.

It was fun to play! I can imagine some more casual gamers will get a lot more than we did out of it. We don't care really about what fan boys think to be honest, true MMO gamers and developers will appreciate what we are trying to do.

r3dl4nce
04-29-2013, 06:40 AM
Although thee aren't as many fanboi's these days as most are in game playing and having fun
Fixed. I'm at work instead :(


as we are quite hardcore on MMO's Thank Gods game is not done for hardcore gamers, that are usually vocal on forum but are always less and less... People wanting gear grind, instance farm, 10+hours/day every day on the same game are always less...

Tyger
04-29-2013, 06:51 AM
spot on with the chat issues. The biggest problem that for me takes time to get over. Everything else ingame that others cry about is a lil low on the issue list imo.

I mean, they (the devs) already stated how they didn't want playes suctioncupped to a single gun at anytime, hence the progression style of xp. It's one thing to complain about a system when it looks like the devs don't understand what they made is not working correctly. It's an entirley diff issue to bag on something when it's working exactly how the devs want it to. They don't want the players running through the game with a single setup, they want you to try diff weapons and variations within. Period.

J1xx3r
04-29-2013, 06:56 AM
spot on with the chat issues. The biggest problem that for me takes time to get over. Everything else ingame that others cry about is a lil low on the issue list imo.

I mean, they (the devs) already stated how they didn't want playes suctioncupped to a single gun at anytime, hence the progression style of xp. It's one thing to complain about a system when it looks like the devs don't understand what they made is not working correctly. It's an entirley diff issue to bag on something when it's working exactly how the devs want it to. They don't want the players running through the game with a single setup, they want you to try diff weapons and variations within. Period.

thank you for your feed back interesting view :-)

Galactimus
04-29-2013, 06:57 AM
This whole "trying different set ups argument" is moot. Once you've tried every different weapon and find the variations you actually like you're right back where you started. You STILL have to toss every gun away or hold on to your favorite guns for another 100 hours until your weapon level is 20. It's really absurd. Especially when your inventory is full of Legendaries you can't use because you still want weapon exp. Horrible system.

J1xx3r
04-29-2013, 07:00 AM
This whole "trying different set ups argument" is moot. Once you've tried every different weapon and find the variations you actually like you're right back where you started. You STILL have to toss every gun away or hold on to your favorite guns for another 100 hours until your weapon level is 20. It's really absurd. Especially when your inventory is full of Legendaries you can't use because you still want weapon exp. Horrible system.

i tend to agree :-) and most MMO'er will not like this system regardless if it was the Devs plan as mentioned above.

Tyger
04-29-2013, 07:25 AM
Sooo, if devs don't make changes they get accused of copy/pasting their games to the community. When they make changes the community pisses & moans that they didn't stick to the same 'ole style. Got it.

Good to hear from such well esteemed armchair devs.

OMGBEES
04-29-2013, 07:28 AM
I hate that every review acts like there is some hacker epidemic that makes the game practically unplayable. I have only run into a few hackers in my 13+ days of /played. The reviewer has some valid points... but I disagree with a lot of what they said and how it was delivered.

Schwa
04-29-2013, 07:37 AM
The review is a bit bare-bones, but it's on the right track.

Honestly though, I'll confess I'm less interested in the review itself and more interested in how Trion is going to respond to the waves of bad press through its content plans. Which, incidentally, does not publicly exist a month after launch.

Many people on these forums have their fingers firmly in their ears any time the press is mentioned, but I've yet to see a review completely off the mark. It's up to Trion to pick themselves up after this launch fiasco, whether or not people believe it was a fiasco.

Tyger
04-29-2013, 07:38 AM
^
10 chars

J1xx3r
04-29-2013, 07:40 AM
Sooo, if devs don't make changes they get accused of copy/pasting their games to the community. When they make changes the community pisses & moans that they didn't stick to the same 'ole style. Got it.

Good to hear from such well esteemed armchair devs.

interesting point of view lol

J1xx3r
04-29-2013, 07:41 AM
I hate that every review acts like there is some hacker epidemic that makes the game practically unplayable. I have only run into a few hackers in my 13+ days of /played. The reviewer has some valid points... but I disagree with a lot of what they said and how it was delivered.


never said the hacking made it unplayable now did i lol ;-)

Oceanhawk
04-29-2013, 07:41 AM
Sooo, if devs don't make changes they get accused of copy/pasting their games to the community. When they make changes the community pisses & moans that they didn't stick to the same 'ole style. Got it.

Good to hear from such well esteemed armchair devs.

Not really. If they try something different I would applaud them, IF, what they come up with makes sense. In this game the system just doesn't make sense. Let's face it, despite what some of the vocal minority like you think, MMO's need some sort of gear grind. With out it, what is the point?

In games like Guild Wars2 they tried to get rid of the gear grind but in it's place they created a different type of grind, a grind to get the same gear with different skins. Some found this a little strange but it works since there is so much other stuff to do in game.

For Defiance there just isn't anything else to take up the slack for the loss of grinding for gear. I wish there was because if there were then I think you would see less complaining about the design decision. Unfortunately the issues with this current system are exaggerated because there is such a lack of other things to do. PvP could have been something to help but unfortunately it is more broken than any other part of the game hands down. It was apparent within the first 5 minutes of PvP play that it was bolted on after the fact and was never fully fleshed out in the design phase.

p.s. Oh and the hacking is out of control. To the point that it makes arkfalls pointless and just not fun because the mobs there die within seconds instead of the epic multi-player fight Trion was trying to create. let's not even talk about how hacking has destroyed PvP, not they needed to help make that fiasco worse than it already was.

Schwa
04-29-2013, 07:44 AM
Not really. If they try something different I would applaud them, IF, what they come up with makes sense. In this game the system just doesn't make sense. Let's face it, despite what some of the vocal minority like you think, MMO's need some sort of gear grind. With out it, what is the point?

In games like Guild Wars2 they tried to get rid of the gear grind but in it's place they created a different type of grind, a grind to get the same gear with different skins. Some found this a little strange but it works since there is so much other stuff to do in game.

For Defiance there just isn't anything else to take up the slack for the loss of grinding for gear. I wish there was because if there were then I think you would see less complaining about the design decision. Unfortunately the issues with this current system are exaggerated because there is such a lack of other things to do. PvP could have been something to help but unfortunately it is more broken than any other part of the game hands down. It was apparent within the first 5 minutes of PvP play that it was bolted on after the fact and was never fully fleshed out in the design phase.

They tried progression through player skill, which is a freaking awesome idea for a MMO/TPS. Where they dropped the ball is laughable co-op difficulty and a top-tier of enemy that is far too easy to get accustomed to.

The cosmetic progression is also laughably K-MMO grindfest for some of the rarer suits, not skill-based.

I honestly don't mind the lack of gear grind if they can nail the skill-based progression, but the co-op missions currently in the game make me think they aren't up to the challenge. We'll see in time, and I'd love to be proven wrong.

Oceanhawk
04-29-2013, 07:45 AM
Oh and OP I book marked your site. Thanks for trying to inform people about the MMO marketplace.

Oceanhawk
04-29-2013, 07:46 AM
They tried progression through player skill, which is a freaking awesome idea for a MMO/TPS. Where they dropped the ball is laughable co-op difficulty and a top-tier of enemy that is far too easy to get accustomed to.

I honestly don't mind the lack of gear grind if they can nail the skill-based progression, but the co-op missions currently in the game make me think they aren't up to the challenge. We'll see in time, and I'd love to be proven wrong.

I too hope they figure it out because if they do I will be the first to post an apology to Trion for doubting them. Unfortunately nothing I have seen from them so far leads me to believe that will happen.

Tyger
04-29-2013, 07:55 AM
I don't think it's as easy as 'we need some sort of grind' as you make it out to be. I do think we(the MMo community of 15+ yrs now) has been bogged down so badly with this mindset that anything that comes along not fitting the current style is often mocked and dismissed for it's audacity. On the other hand Life itself falls into the style of Grinding so I could agree with ya' on that. I just don't get it when it comes to games that try to move past the established norms just to get crapped on by the very same group of ppl that constantly complain of playing the same stuff all the time.

Use a weapon till it's maxed out. If it has stuff you like then shelf it for later or move on. No tears, no awkward goodbyes, no over the shoulder looks as the sun fades in the west. You make it sound like you being asked to carve out your left lung after you did so well with it the last couple of years. They already stated all the guns have varying stats bonuses so it's in your best interest in constantly trying to find that one singular god weapon. There's your grind just packaged differently.

J1xx3r
04-29-2013, 07:58 AM
Oh and OP I book marked your site. Thanks for trying to inform people about the MMO marketplace.

Thanks mate, we are well into Beta testing MMO's giving feed back and very keen in supporting developers in making better MMO's for us all casuals as well as hardcore players. Our review section and history of Beta testing is currently under development and will soon have a nice blog system for easy navigation :-)

I know the review does point out negatives and we are not here to give Trion a kicking Honestly we did have lots of fun playing this game. I just want our reviews to be straight to the point or "bare bones" as mentioned above in what the key issues where without the waffling on and on about stuff most gamers and developers find not that critical in the game success.

There are plenty of reviews full of fluff to read but personally they annoy me lol

r3dl4nce
04-29-2013, 08:01 AM
Honestly though, I'll confess I'm less interested in the review itself and more interested in how Trion is going to respond to the waves of bad press through its content plans. Which, incidentally, does not publicly exist a month after launch.

Rift, Trion game. Great critic review. Less players day after day.
SW:TOR. Game voted 9/10. After few months from launch it was defined "a big fail"
Defiance. Bad critics, low votes. So this must be a great success in next months!
:D

Conneri
04-29-2013, 08:02 AM
I actually do hope they find a better method than the standard mmorpg gear grind. I've gotten rather tired of grinding gear, only to have the mark move up in the next patch to keep me grinding more gear. It's the equivalent of just reset my work every few months. I like that in this system I can pick up any weapon and it be fully useable whether it be white, green, blue, purple or orange. I do think some form of crafting system would be nice, but not sure how it would fit currently since there is no auction house to support crafters well.

I think one of the more interesting things they could do is develop the co-op a bit more. Have some bosses or such that require skill use at certain points or make using certain weapon types a major benefit. For instance, have a boss that can do a 120 degree killing arc perhaps which would track a player, encouraging Decoy use. Another could be a gauntlet that must be run that would normally just kill you, encouraging Blur with damage reduction and a heavy shield or Cloak. Another could be an AoE pulse that encourages healing via BMGs.

Schwa
04-29-2013, 08:09 AM
Rift, Trion game. Great critic review. Less players day after day.
SW:TOR. Game voted 9/10. After few months from launch it was defined "a big fail"
Defiance. Bad critics, low votes. So this must be a great success in next months!
:D

Thank you for your valuable contribution, and for pointing out an exception to the rule.

Unfortunately, the rule still stands and Defiance has an uphill battle ahead of it. I'm interested to see when, or if, Trion picks itself up after falling flat on its face out of the gate.

J1xx3r
04-29-2013, 08:14 AM
I actually do hope they find a better method than the standard mmorpg gear grind. I've gotten rather tired of grinding gear, only to have the mark move up in the next patch to keep me grinding more gear. It's the equivalent of just reset my work every few months. I like that in this system I can pick up any weapon and it be fully useable whether it be white, green, blue, purple or orange. I do think some form of crafting system would be nice, but not sure how it would fit currently since there is no auction house to support crafters well.

I think one of the more interesting things they could do is develop the co-op a bit more. Have some bosses or such that require skill use at certain points or make using certain weapon types a major benefit. For instance, have a boss that can do a 120 degree killing arc perhaps which would track a player, encouraging Decoy use. Another could be a gauntlet that must be run that would normally just kill you, encouraging Blur with damage reduction and a heavy shield or Cloak. Another could be an AoE pulse that encourages healing via BMGs.

Very good points and agree 100%!

r3dl4nce
04-29-2013, 08:19 AM
Trion have a scheduled one year roadmap (5 DLCs included in the season pass should be 8-12 months long). So there is time to grow or keep a good player base

Schwa
04-29-2013, 08:23 AM
Trion have a scheduled one year roadmap (5 DLCs included in the season pass should be 8-12 months long). So there is time to grow or keep a good player base

That's just not going to be possible if they continue to hemorrhage players. Which they have started to do, and will continue to do as long as the 2000+ game continues to be a korean MMO.

Oceanhawk
04-29-2013, 08:34 AM
Trion have a scheduled one year roadmap (5 DLCs included in the season pass should be 8-12 months long). So there is time to grow or keep a good player base

This might be a valid point if they hadn't already pushed back the release of the first DLC and no new shipment date has been given. So their ability to put out regular content updates is already suspect.

r3dl4nce
04-29-2013, 08:34 AM
In a B2P game, players will go and come. Nothing is forcing people to play all days 24h/24.
You can't understand what is a game for casual players, uh?

Oceanhawk
04-29-2013, 08:38 AM
In a B2P game, players will go and come. Nothing is forcing people to play all days 24h/24.
You can't understand what is a game for casual players, uh?

What does this have to do with anything. If you actually believe that players that run through all the content within the first couple weeks will come back in droves each time a DLC is released then I'm afraid you are about to be disappointed. First impressions go a long way and while it's obvious that you find nothing wrong with the game, lots of others do.

Their financial model is set to keep content releases flowing with enough frequency that they can retain enough regular players to make future release profitable. However if they are only expecting the game to last this first season and they aren't actually planning beyond that then they are on track with their plans. Personally I hope that isn't the case.

J1xx3r
04-29-2013, 08:49 AM
What does this have to do with anything. If you actually believe that players that run through all the content within the first couple weeks will come back in droves each time a DLC is released then I'm afraid you are about to be disappointed. First impressions go a long way and while it's obvious that you find nothing wrong with the game, lots of others do.

Their financial model is set to keep content releases flowing with enough frequency that they can retain enough regular players to make future release profitable. However if they are only expecting the game to last this first season and they aren't actually planning beyond that then they are on track with their plans. Personally I hope that isn't the case.

it is all about first impressions, the only reason some gamers are going back to old games is because nothing is grabbing their attention right now, but big titles on the horizon like ESO then a bit later Titan and after that we have World of Darkness all in different stages of development and all having very heavy development i feel the market will soon have to up their game :-) and long live that!

Grimjax
04-29-2013, 08:54 AM
There are issues with the game and like many feel that it was rushed out the door because of the tv series launch date. Am I still having fun, yep, no clue for how long if things don't start changing.

Ignoring the obvious bugs, chat and horrible UI... My biggest qualm with the game is the weapon leveling system.

Because of the stopped skill progression once a weapon is maxed out, I very rarely mod anything except with lvl 1 mods and don't waste salvage adding mod slots. It makes absolutely no sense that because I've used my trusty side arm forever that I will never get better with that type of weapon unless I use a different one. All I ask is for them enable skill progression even with a maxed out weapon or even just remove individual weapon experience completely.

What would it hurt?

Oceanhawk
04-29-2013, 08:56 AM
it is all about first impressions, the only reason some gamers are going back to old games is because nothing is grabbing their attention right now, but big titles on the horizon like ESO then a bit later Titan and after that we have World of Darkness all in different stages of development and all having very heavy development i feel the market will soon have to up their game :-) and long live that!

Agreed! It's potentially a good time for gamers but only if the Fanboy base that is so prevelent in online games can cure their cranial rectumitis. Failure by all of us to expect more from developers/publishers only perpetuates the perception of releasing buggy games as a normal part of the online gaming experience. As soon as publishers begin losing money as a result of their desire to recoup their investments quickly we will all win.

r3dl4nce
04-29-2013, 08:57 AM
f you actually believe that players that run through all the content within the first couple weeks will come back in droves each time a DLC is released Curiosity will do its work! :)



However if they are only expecting the game to last this first seasonI read the second season of the TV show is planning to be filmed, and there should be more tie ins with the game, so the game will last years...

Oceanhawk
04-29-2013, 09:03 AM
Curiosity will do its work! :)


I read the second season of the TV show is planning to be filmed, and there should be more tie ins with the game, so the game will last years...

I think you missed my point on the season 2 part. Yes I know the TV show is scheduled to continue (at least at this point, although SyFy has a crappy record of retaining good shows long term) but that doesn't mean they ever planned for the game to continue past the first season. No one here knows what was planned long term for this game but from what I have seen so far I'm not expecting it to really be relevant in the world of MMO's much past this first season.

I base my assumptions on the fact that their online store really has nothing of value to most players. Nothing there is worth real money at the moment. Lock boxes could have been a reason to spend real cash but their randomness negates their value tremendously. So that being said their only long term cash flow would seem to come from the DLC releases. So if that is where their long term money stream is supposed to be then there is no way for them to stay profitable if the vast majority of the players all bail out within a month or two as it appears is happening already.

Conneri
04-29-2013, 09:06 AM
Btw, forgot to mention it but the article I felt, as a fan of the game, was well done. It moved through points both good and bad quickly without overly stressing minutia to make themselves seem superior. It was honest and didn't berate anyone for things beyond pointing out that certain things were bad/good/interesting/etc. It wasn't a platform for some personality to try and show off his/her flair for over acting masked as a review which was a nice change.

Stretch21
04-29-2013, 09:07 AM
Curiosity will do its work! :)


I read the second season of the TV show is planning to be filmed, and there should be more tie ins with the game, so the game will last years...

Unfortunately what you read has little validity on the reality of the situation they currently find themselves in. How good the tie ins "may" be a year from now means nothing if the majority of their player base is already gone. Their are no details about the supposed tie ins and therefore you cannot speak to their quality. Not to mention the fact that if the game cant stand on its own, without some tie ins from a show that can be cancelled at any time, it will already be doomed to fail.

r3dl4nce
04-29-2013, 09:10 AM
but that doesn't mean they ever planned for the game to continue past the first season.Season 2 of the TV show will have more tie-ins with the game... So game will be alive...


So that being said their only long term cash flow would seem to come from the DLC releases. So if that is where their long term money stream is supposed to be then there is no way for them to stay profitable if the vast majority of the players all bail out within a month or two as it appears is happening already.
B2P games are based on account sold and DLCs / expansions. People can stop play anytime they want and they can come back with DLCs. They have this clear for the development of a B2P game.

Stretch21
04-29-2013, 09:17 AM
Season 2 of the TV show will have more tie-ins with the game... So game will be alive...


B2P games are based on account sold and DLCs / expansions. People can stop play anytime they want and they can come back with DLCs. They have this clear for the development of a B2P game.

You seem to somehow be equating plans for tie ins with whether or not the game will be "alive".
Just because they plan to have tie ins for a possible second season does not mean their will be a big enough player base left to play such content, whatever it is.

Whether or not a game lives or dies has nothing to do with plans, but with active population.

3rdpig
04-29-2013, 10:00 AM
I can't say I disagree with the review, it's pretty much what I've found through 200 hours of play. Right now I'm out of content and playing the main mission over again waiting to see what they deliver today.

At the beginning the game led me to watching the show, now it's the other way around, the show is, hopefully, going to bring me back to the game.

Or I'll leave both completely. But with 200 hours played, and the ability to come back and play again anytime, I don't feel my money was wasted.

But if the developers don't fix the problems and add content and some kind of vertical progression, a fantastic idea that had great potential will have been wasted.

I'm pulling for you Trion, we're all in this together!

J1xx3r
04-29-2013, 10:26 AM
Btw, forgot to mention it but the article I felt, as a fan of the game, was well done. It moved through points both good and bad quickly without overly stressing minutia to make themselves seem superior. It was honest and didn't berate anyone for things beyond pointing out that certain things were bad/good/interesting/etc. It wasn't a platform for some personality to try and show off his/her flair for over acting masked as a review which was a nice change.

thanks mate appreciate that :-) its exactly what we aimed for :-)

J1xx3r
04-29-2013, 10:36 AM
I can't say I disagree with the review, it's pretty much what I've found through 200 hours of play. Right now I'm out of content and playing the main mission over again waiting to see what they deliver today.

At the beginning the game led me to watching the show, now it's the other way around, the show is, hopefully, going to bring me back to the game.

Or I'll leave both completely. But with 200 hours played, and the ability to come back and play again anytime, I don't feel my money was wasted.

But if the developers don't fix the problems and add content and some kind of vertical progression, a fantastic idea that had great potential will have been wasted.

I'm pulling for you Trion, we're all in this together!

i really not a fan of tv shows anyway and i never even watched the first episode but most of the guys in the community did and was not that impressed. I did forget to mention actually that i have played 250 hours and ego rating 1980 :-)

Conneri
04-29-2013, 11:25 AM
i really not a fan of tv shows anyway and i never even watched the first episode but most of the guys in the community did and was not that impressed.
The TV show was a bit of a rough start but it has some decent promise I think. If you look back at some of the more recent successful sci-fi series (Babylon 5, SG-1, Atlantis, Farscape, Firefly, Galactica, etc), most started pretty rough comparably to their later episodes. It'll either blossom or keep trying to go too deep and fall the same victim as SG:Universe. Similar to the game, it's definitely worth seeing how it blossoms out as time passes as it could go either way.

Tryskell
04-29-2013, 12:11 PM
I fully agree with the conclusion. The game would be tagged as only console game it could save the global idea. But the PC version is lacking on every points. Gameplay and interface are "consolish". In 2013 you wait more from a (paying) game.

The other problem is the bigger sell is the PC. So Trion has to care about that part of customers.

I also agree about the lack of background content. I had to go on WIKIS to understand why Votan were on Earth and the whole history. The same problem happens on the serie aswell...

J1xx3r
04-29-2013, 12:11 PM
The TV show was a bit of a rough start but it has some decent promise I think. If you look back at some of the more recent successful sci-fi series (Babylon 5, SG-1, Atlantis, Farscape, Firefly, Galactica, etc), most started pretty rough comparably to their later episodes. It'll either blossom or keep trying to go too deep and fall the same victim as SG:Universe. Similar to the game, it's definitely worth seeing how it blossoms out as time passes as it could go either way.

i really think the plug will be pulled and be very surprised if the show continues after season one.

Conneri
04-29-2013, 12:26 PM
i really think the plug will be pulled and be very surprised if the show continues after season one.
If Continuum can get a second season... :)

ironhands
04-29-2013, 01:56 PM
They tried progression through player skill, which is a freaking awesome idea for a MMO/TPS. Where they dropped the ball is laughable co-op difficulty and a top-tier of enemy that is far too easy to get accustomed to.

The cosmetic progression is also laughably K-MMO grindfest for some of the rarer suits, not skill-based.

I honestly don't mind the lack of gear grind if they can nail the skill-based progression, but the co-op missions currently in the game make me think they aren't up to the challenge. We'll see in time, and I'd love to be proven wrong.

^dis.

except k-mmo, the outfits aren't nearly as silly as they could be to fit the kmmo niche.

PETS PLZ!!!11!

skepticck
04-29-2013, 02:23 PM
Pretty accurate review, there is no arguing with any of the points made as they are spot on.
On a side note i wish the game would look even half (i would even settle for one third) as good as the 3 promotion pics in the review, as it is now without Sweetfx the graphics are washed out,bland, true console graphics.

Rizaun
04-29-2013, 02:50 PM
WTB better chat + higher difficulties!

J1xx3r
04-29-2013, 03:32 PM
Pretty accurate review, there is no arguing with any of the points made as they are spot on.
On a side note i wish the game would look even half (i would even settle for one third) as good as the 3 promotion pics in the review, as it is now without Sweetfx the graphics are washed out,bland, true console graphics.

Yes well pointed out regarding the images used, will be more switched on about that next time, I am new to reviewing so all your feed back has been really cool!

Iceberg
04-29-2013, 09:21 PM
First off, great review. Secondly, having a "grind" isnt all bad, if done correctly it could be fun. This game makes shooting things fun, I can't put my finger on it, but there is an addictive nature to it. If some of the key items were fixed/improved on, then I could see this game being very popular.

Trion could still have their product go in the direction they still want, but maybe a small detour here and there to help it along couldn't hurt.

Schwa
04-29-2013, 10:31 PM
^dis.

except k-mmo, the outfits aren't nearly as silly as they could be to fit the kmmo niche.

PETS PLZ!!!11!

The korean part comes from the "kill 5000 billion enemies with a slingshot" type achievements. Not the character design.

I'd rather see a pursuit for leveling an orange weapon of a specific type to cap than DO RAMPAGE WITH THIS WEAPON OVER AND OVER.

r3dl4nce
04-30-2013, 01:03 AM
The korean part comes from the "kill 5000 billion enemies with a slingshot" type achievements. Not the character design.And still, you don't want to see the differences.
- In a korean/grind game, you are FORCED to farm for levels and or equips or you can't complete all the content of the game
- In Defiance NOTHING is forcing you to complete pursuits, contracts, or other, because, ehy, you can do all the content with the starting weapons...

If you can't see the difference, it's only because you are so accustomed to games which forces you to farm that you can't understand there are other kind of games... made without a carrot-on-a-stick attitude



i really think the plug will be pulled and be very surprised if the show continues after season one.
There where some news about plans for filming the season 2...

J1xx3r
04-30-2013, 02:08 AM
There where some news about plans for filming the season 2...

im sure they have loads of plans and ideas :-) but its just all hearsay and until SCI FI can see the numbers viewing their show at the end of season one, no decision is made because if the numbers are too low you can bet they will flush it away like some nasty thing in the toilet!

r3dl4nce
04-30-2013, 02:17 AM
http://www.indiewire.com/article/television/kevin-murphy-defiance-syfy?page=1#articleHeaderPanel

J1xx3r
04-30-2013, 02:23 AM
http://www.indiewire.com/article/television/kevin-murphy-defiance-syfy?page=1#articleHeaderPanel

yea read the thread and looks promising, thanks for sharing :-) The numbers must be high enough for them to start working on it and prepare.

Schwa
04-30-2013, 03:06 AM
And still, you don't want to see the differences.
- In a korean/grind game, you are FORCED to farm for levels and or equips or you can't complete all the content of the game
- In Defiance NOTHING is forcing you to complete pursuits, contracts, or other, because, ehy, you can do all the content with the starting weapons...

If you can't see the difference, it's only because you are so accustomed to games which forces you to farm that you can't understand there are other kind of games... made without a carrot-on-a-stick attitude


Oh, I see. The "it's too profound for you" defense.

Sorry, ********. The game isn't profound enough to merit its ludicrously high cap. If you want to complete the game, you're going to have to grind something mindlessly. Whether that is arkfalls, emergencies, weapons, or pursuits-- the mindlessness part of it is what grants this game the questionable honor of "korean grinder."

It's not because there's a lack of things to do-- no, emergencies are a fantastic idea. The issue is at 2500+ ego you're still halfway to cap. That halfway to cap part means you either buckle down and grind a ****ton of trivial content you've already seen a metric ****ton of times, or you stop progressing entirely.

Nevermind the game's progression is skill-based, rather than item or stat-based. But the game's skill progression hits an abrupt end at around 1000 ego, assuming you do all of the sidequests.

r3dl4nce
04-30-2013, 03:29 AM
Oh, I see. The "it's too profound for you" defense.Not really, I say Defiance is casual-player-friendly.
- No need to farm for 24hr/day for equip
- No content blocked by not having the right equipment
- No 20-30 man raids lasting lot of hours
- No need to reach "level cap" to do "endgame content". The game is all full of "endgame content" doable at any level

Simply casual friendly

Everything you do, you do because you have FUN in doing that. Not because otherwise you can't progress

Schwa
04-30-2013, 03:31 AM
Not really, I say Defiance is casual-player-friendly.
- No need to farm for 24hr/day for equip
- No content blocked by not having the right equipment
- No 20-30 man raids lasting lot of hours
- No need to reach "level cap" to do "endgame content". The game is all full of "endgame content" doable at any level

Simply casual friendly

Everything you do, you do because you have FUN in doing that. Not because otherwise you can't progress

I absolutely love what you describe, but the game you're describing doesn't exist past 2500 ego or so. I'm very sorry, but there's only so many emergencies you can do before the game becomes a Korean Grinder.

r3dl4nce
04-30-2013, 03:49 AM
I absolutely love what you describe, but the game you're describing doesn't exist past 2500 ego or so.

What you do at ego level 100 is the same that you do at ego level 1000 and is the same that you do at ego level 2500 and is the same that you do at ego level 5000. Are you saying the game does not exist ? :D :D

Schwa
04-30-2013, 04:06 AM
What you do at ego level 100 is the same that you do at ego level 1000 and is the same that you do at ego level 2500 and is the same that you do at ego level 5000. Are you saying the game does not exist ? :D :D

No, no the game isn't the same. By the time you hit 2500 ego you've exhausted all but the korean grindy pursuits.

I'm very sorry, but unless you've experienced the game at around 2500+ ego then you just don't understand what I mean by korean MMO grinder. In the "combat" list I currently have the option to level BMGs to 10, kill 3000 more enemies with combat shotguns, or to kill 15000 more enemies in general. The other tabs aren't much better, since all exploration and other such nonsense is all done-- except the Korean parts.

That's it. That's all. Korean.

r3dl4nce
04-30-2013, 04:10 AM
No, no the game isn't the same. By the time you hit 2500 ego you've exhausted all but the korean grindy pursuits.Perfect. Stop loggin in until new content arrive. B2P model...

Or go to play a REAL korean game, where you are FORCED to grind to level up (or you can't do content), you are FORCED to farm equips (or you can't enter instances) and then you are FORCED to farm other equip to do higher instances.

Then you'll come back to the FREEDOM of Defiance ;) Or not, hey, you bought the game, you gave money to Trion, thank you, bye bye.

Schwa
04-30-2013, 04:12 AM
Perfect. Stop loggin in until new content arrive. B2P model...

Or go to play a REAL korean game, where you are FORCED to grind to level up (or you can't do content), you are FORCED to farm quips (or you can't enter instances) and then you are FORCED to farm other equip to do higher instances.

Then you'll come back to the FREEDOM of Defiance ;) Or not, hey, you bought the game, you gave money to Trion, thank you, bye bye.

I'd rather play Defiance, but with better design around 2500 ego. That's why I'm posting here, rather than telling people to just give up on the game or accepting substandard product.

Hint: People are giving up on the game. You don't want to encourage more.

I fully understand you like the game, but the game's current design at this ego rating is indefensible.

r3dl4nce
04-30-2013, 05:43 AM
I fully understand you like the game, but the game's current design at this ego rating is indefensible.No, your whining is simply the same happening few weeks after the release of every new MMORPG. "Aaaaaaaaah the game is s**t because I finished it in 3 days" .... nothing new.

Oceanhawk
04-30-2013, 06:43 AM
Not really, I say Defiance is casual-player-friendly.
- No need to farm for 24hr/day for equip
- No content blocked by not having the right equipment
- No 20-30 man raids lasting lot of hours
- No need to reach "level cap" to do "endgame content". The game is all full of "endgame content" doable at any level

Simply casual friendly

Everything you do, you do because you have FUN in doing that. Not because otherwise you can't progress

I see the point you are trying to make but don't you realize that some of those items you are happy about not being part of the game are at the same time hindering it's long term success?

A true MMO needs to have a hook that captures peoples attention and keeps drawing them back for more and more. Trying to use a DLC as that hook I think is fundamentally flawed. The problem is that since the beginning of MMO history the players flew through content faster than developers expected. To offset that speed that had to add elements to keep players engaged while they rolled out additional content.

I know that is the traditional mold of MMO's and Trion is attempting something different with Defiance but the problem is their goals just haven't be realized. People aren't going to be engaged for longer than a few weeks at most, except for those few people that find grinding over the same content over and over for no real gain. However that group of people is relatively small and in the grand schemes of things (read monetary gain for Trion) that group of people isn't large enough to sustain the game.

To fix the problem Trion would either have to increase the rate of DLC content and weekly episodic updates or redesign the character or gear progression. Something has to be done to keep people playing.

I know at times I sound like someone that hates this game but that couldn't be farther from the truth. I love the concept of this game but I don't like the way it works currently. That mostly is because I see this game failing quickly and I'd prefer it were around for awhile. There just aren't too many other games out there in existence or even in development that have the potential this game has. It's just sad that Trion has become so tight lipped about their plans and they have almost entirely stopped communicating to us about things as important as updates.

Oceanhawk
04-30-2013, 06:46 AM
No, your whining is simply the same happening few weeks after the release of every new MMORPG. "Aaaaaaaaah the game is s**t because I finished it in 3 days" .... nothing new.

The guy you are slamming is trying to see your point but your attacks on his viewpoint makes it difficult to even pay attention to you. At least have the common courtesy he is attempting to show you. Every issue has two sides and only the ignorant fail to at least find some common ground on topics. Stop being so close minded and you might get more attention.

r3dl4nce
04-30-2013, 07:07 AM
A true MMO needs to have a hook that captures peoples attention and keeps drawing them back for more and more. In a P2P maybe, you need gear to farm for months to have a reason to pay for the monthly fee.
Defiance is a B2P.


The problem is that since the beginning of MMO history the players flew through content faster than developers expected. To offset that speed that had to add elements to keep players engaged while they rolled out additional content. Here again, the B2P model come in aid. As soon as you have finished all the content, stop logging in game if you are not interested in logging in. When they will release more content/DLCs, the curiosity will come into play, people will buy the DLC to see the new content. A B2P game is not forcing you to login, and there is no need to give you a month of carrot-on-a-stick grind only to make you pay the monthly fee.


However that group of people is relatively small and in the grand schemes of things (read monetary gain for Trion) that group of people isn't large enough to sustain the game.A B2P game is sustained by initial account sales and DLCs/expansion sales. No need to force people to login.


Something has to be done to keep people playing.A B2P game does not need to keep people playing, because if you play 1 day or 4 months, it's the same, you payed the same initial box price. People will come back when DLC will be released just to see the new content, they will rush through the DLC new content in 1 day or take it slowly in 3 months (totally the same, the price of the DLC is the same if you rush or play it slowly).


they have almost entirely stopped communicating to us about things as important as updates.False.
http://community.defiance.com/en/

Oceanhawk
04-30-2013, 07:09 AM
In a P2P maybe, you need gear to farm for months to have a reason to pay for the monthly fee.
Defiance is a B2P.

Here again, the B2P model come in aid. As soon as you have finished all the content, stop logging in game if you are not interested in logging in. When they will release more content/DLCs, the curiosity will come into play, people will buy the DLC to see the new content. A B2P game is not forcing you to login, and there is no need to give you a month of carrot-on-a-stick grind only to make you pay the monthly fee.

A B2P game is sustained by initial account sales and DLCs/expansion sales. No need to force people to login.

A B2P game does not need to keep people playing, because if you play 1 day or 4 months, it's the same, you payed the same initial box price. People will come back when DLC will be released just to see the new content, they will rush through the DLC new content in 1 day or take it slowly in 3 months (totally the same, the price of the DLC is the same if you rush or play it slowly).

False.
http://community.defiance.com/en/

Ok No sense wasting time trying to have a rational discussion with you since you fail to even try and see other views. Please go back to your much beloved game in it's current state and please don't come crying to us when they close down production of the game. Because despite your view on this, it is coming and coming fast. This is just like Tabula Rasa all over again.

alred
04-30-2013, 07:10 AM
My opinion of the OPs opinion is so what?
They tried something a little different and got caught with more issues at launch then they thought they would have.

So the game is buggy, and resets are a pain. But the fact that you own a copy of it, means you can return to it in a few months, and see if there has been any improvement.
I tend to dodge reviews of books, games, movies. Because of few things:
1]Every reviewer has a monetary agenda attached to their review. For example you site contains ads. To hopefully generate some money for the site. Hence reviews are suspect.
2]I have found that many reviews have gone against the way I actually enjoyed what they reviewer has reviewed. For example Defiance. Despite it's bugs, I still enjoy playing the game.
4]Some reviewers have a sole purpose of trying to shut down the business Meaning they are mean spirited trolls that rub their hands with glee when their sheep follow their lead and cause a business to fail. Instead of thinking for themselves the sheep, or maybe lemmings is more correct, blindly follow the reviewer. Instead of experiencing it themselves.

r3dl4nce
04-30-2013, 07:11 AM
it is coming and coming fast. This is just like Tabula Rasa all over again.
There is already season 2 of the TV shows in production with the tie ins with the game (that mean the game will last at least until the end of season 2 of the tv show)

You should train better your foreseeing skill :D :D :D

Oceanhawk
04-30-2013, 07:16 AM
There is already season 2 of the TV shows in production with the tie ins with the game (that mean the game will last at least until the end of season 2 of the tv show)

You should train better your foreseeing skill :D :D :D

LMAO you are actually thinking that the longevity of the TV series will directly impact the longevity of the game? I'm sorry my friend but you just proved your complete ignorance of how the real world works. I hate to break this to you but SyFy has canceled series that were giving them the highest rating they had ever had on the network. Only to replace those series with wrestling and ghost hunter crap. Even trying to use logic when discussing how SyFy thinks/works is an exercise in futility.

r3dl4nce
04-30-2013, 07:21 AM
What is hard to understand that "the season 2 is in production" ? And season 2 will be for the TV show AND for the game, it's a project based on 2 medias working together

Oceanhawk
04-30-2013, 07:49 AM
What is hard to understand that "the season 2 is in production" ? And season 2 will be for the TV show AND for the game, it's a project based on 2 medias working together

-1 for reading comprehension. trolls will be trolls.

r3dl4nce
04-30-2013, 07:55 AM
-1 for reading comprehension. trolls will be trolls.

Calling "trolls" is when you have no more arguments to reply...

Conneri
04-30-2013, 07:57 AM
I hate to break this to you but SyFy has canceled series that were giving them the highest rating they had ever had on the network. Only to replace those series with wrestling and ghost hunter crap. Even trying to use logic when discussing how SyFy thinks/works is an exercise in futility.
Not sure exactly which shows you are referring to but my only guess is profit margin issues (Eureka). It's ratings were good but it was just a really expensive show to make and due to changes in management this has become more of an issue.

Now, as for Defiance, ratings are relatively good (for SyFy) so far but it also has a high production cost which could hurt it.

Archellion
04-30-2013, 11:57 AM
yea read the thread and looks promising, thanks for sharing :-) The numbers must be high enough for them to start working on it and prepare.

I don't think SyFy would be basing the future of the television show component of Defiance on viewing numbers alone. Will they be a factor? Probably, but the goal they've set is to determine whether you can create content that spans multiple media platforms, and that's not something you can determine after just one season.

You just don't set out on such an auspicious and audacious project, the likes of which the world has never seen, if you plan on giving up right after you start. Well...you shouldn't anyway.

fatoldguy
04-30-2013, 12:21 PM
Not really, I say Defiance is casual-player-friendly.
- No need to farm for 24hr/day for equip
- No content blocked by not having the right equipment
- No 20-30 man raids lasting lot of hours
- No need to reach "level cap" to do "endgame content". The game is all full of "endgame content" doable at any level

Simply casual friendly

Everything you do, you do because you have FUN in doing that. Not because otherwise you can't progress



Casual friendly is what is killing the MMO genre.

Archeus9
04-30-2013, 12:25 PM
They tried progression through player skill, which is a freaking awesome idea for a MMO/TPS. Where they dropped the ball is laughable co-op difficulty and a top-tier of enemy that is far too easy to get accustomed to.

The cosmetic progression is also laughably K-MMO grindfest for some of the rarer suits, not skill-based.

I honestly don't mind the lack of gear grind if they can nail the skill-based progression, but the co-op missions currently in the game make me think they aren't up to the challenge. We'll see in time, and I'd love to be proven wrong.

Sir, you are a gentleman and a scholar. Hit my problems with the game head on. To be honest its not even the grind that bothers me its the lack of challenge in the arkfalls or anything else. I barely even die any more.

The only time i die is if the stupid hellbug mortars that i didn't see spawn on the other side of the crystal decide to focus on me and surprise me when im focuses crouching firing on something else... but even then that's not not them outskilling me, that's just lucky mortar spam.

An AI upgrade with them taking cover or in the case of hellbugs them being a bit more aggressive would be nice.

Konyetz
04-30-2013, 12:57 PM
Did you even read the review after you typed it? I'm not going to say I speak or type the English language perfectly, as I definitely make mistakes, but this review from a grammar standpoint is terrible. There are so many mistakes and the review is just all over the place. There is a reason the Editor position exists in journalism companies.

Lamerian
04-30-2013, 01:00 PM
The review is just a comparison to World of Warcraft. He needs to hire someone to do his grammatical editing if he's going to publish reviews in, at least, a quasi-professional manner. He's completely wrong about the graphics, and the issues he lists are commonly known throughout the forums. So, his review just reads like a Defiance forum compilation, just to get clicks on his web site. Even worse, he's the typical stroker of the people who like to condescend to others who won't jump on the nagging bandwagon.

Many of the problems Defiance has, as the team works to fix issues, are being exasperated by some of the very people complaining the loudest. I guarantee the MMO hacking community is at fault for much of the distress the normal gamers have had to deal with while playing the game.

jenn
04-30-2013, 01:01 PM
Lol everyone is a game reviewer these days

Lamerian
04-30-2013, 01:13 PM
Casual friendly is what is killing the MMO genre.

No, it's the whine-bag gamers like you who are killing the genre. People leave the game because you bring a stress level to it that takes away the fun and enjoyment a game is supposed to supply.

J1xx3r
04-30-2013, 01:59 PM
No, it's the whine-bag gamers like you who are killing the genre. People leave the game because you bring a stress level to it that takes away the fun and enjoyment a game is supposed to supply.

Allowing the casual player to obtain everything seriously waters down the MMO genre because these games are supposed to be deep and last more than a few weeks. There are ways to please both and i feel game developers really need to start making games that cater for both.

J1xx3r
05-15-2013, 08:00 PM
Hello,

The talkGEEK community have finished their review on this game. We will be revisiting the game after a few months for an update to see how things are progressing. We do not give scores, just relevant feed back for gamers and developers.

talkGEEK Review for Defiance (http://www.talkgeek.net/reviews/defiance.3/)

Wish the Devs all the best in the future and good luck.

Thanks for reading, have fun all :-)

Really appreciate all the great feedback!

Schwa
05-15-2013, 08:18 PM
I'm more of the opinion that the hardcore/casual dichotomy is causing more harm to gaming than the lack or streamlining of any particular type of content.

There is no us vs. them. What people refer to as "hardcore" or "casual" are two extremes on a variable spectrum. And very, very few players that sling mud are actually at the extreme they claim to represent in the non-debate.

It's like the nonsense in the console space-- 360 vs PS3.

Dooks
05-15-2013, 09:33 PM
Hardcore Gamers = small fraction of the community....casual gamers = most of the community, who do you think they care more about? This is a business, you cater to those who will make you the most money.

Acelee
05-15-2013, 10:09 PM
i really dont give a **** about anybodies stupid review, it dont mean **** and why do we need to see what you think about the game unless you are trying to impose your view onto others in a effort to try and cause other people to leave the game. i mean really if you dont like it than shut your mouth and dont let the door hit ya. save your so called reviews for your website not here. and for your group of geeks, running through games that fast and not slowing down and taking the time to enjoy games and stupid also.

Daholic
05-15-2013, 10:24 PM
i really dont give a **** about anybodies stupid review, it dont mean **** and why do we need to see what you think about the game unless you are trying to impose your view onto others in a effort to try and cause other people to leave the game. i mean really if you dont like it than shut your mouth and dont let the door hit ya. save your so called reviews for your website not here. and for your group of geeks, running through games that fast and not slowing down and taking the time to enjoy games and stupid also.

Wow, now imagine what you would have said if the review was slobbering all over Defiance.

J1xx3r
05-16-2013, 03:38 AM
not really interested in fan boy opinions and to be honest hardcore MMO'er are more important than you like to think. The best way is for us not to hate each other but for developers to see all views from Role players, casual players and hardcore players we all matter!

Schwa
05-16-2013, 03:48 AM
not really interested in fan boy opinions and to be honest hardcore MMO'er are more important than you like to think. The best way is for us not to hate each other but for developers to see all views from Role players, casual players and hardcore players we all matter!

Fan boy... interesting. You must not have been reading any of my posts.

I'm simply saying so-called hardcore players aren't as important as they like to think, nor are they as unimportant as the self-professed "casuals" like to think.

J1xx3r
05-16-2013, 04:15 AM
no mate I was not replying to you directly :-) er so reading your reply you agree with me? that we all matter? come on share the love and have a group hug :-p

Tyger
05-16-2013, 05:15 AM
Wow, now imagine what you would have said if the review was slobbering all over Defiance.

ehehehe... Ummm I think, and this is just a thought, what Acelee was trying to get across in all that angry typing was that review site crew commin' in here promoting their stuff was more the issue than whether its a positive/negative over Defiance.

Granted, I will read game reviews both pre and post purchase, but I've too often found that the so called "professional" reviews are greatly slanted and end up more of the typical 3-seconds-to-assume-everything style. Reviewers are simply placing their opinion of the game out there for others to see, and like all opinions they're free to do so. However, they're almost never 100% accurate and quite often have reasons behind why they gave the thumbs up/down that weigh more against personal issues/professional issues that what the tested piece offered at time of review.

Think about it. How many games out there that you liked got crap reviews simply due to being released by an absolute unknown in the game developer community? How many games out there you got based on stellar reviews because they were coming out of some AAA studio and end up being a serious rehash, phoned in style of game play and execution?

I've learned in the not so long time of 12+ MMO years that in the end only "I" know what "I" like and only "I" can make that decision no matter how esteemed the reviewer is. Listening to others without trying for yourself is pretty narrow minded. Again, that's just an opinion. I'm sure there are many sheople out there that enjoy being led in certain directions when making financial decisions. Some of us aren't.

Murder0usRegime
05-16-2013, 07:42 AM
Thanks mate, our intention is to be truthful and the game is only really put in a bad light from a Veteran Community point of view as we are quite hardcore on MMO's we do get through them quickly and want community content.

It was fun to play! I can imagine some more casual gamers will get a lot more than we did out of it. We don't care really about what fan boys think to be honest, true MMO gamers and developers will appreciate what we are trying to do.

This is true. All my friends who are hardcore MMO veterans hate this game. But this is my first step into these types of games and I absolutely LOVE it. Good to know that their are better options once I'm done with Defiance.