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View Full Version : It's official, not free to play, buy to play at least.



Zodiak
01-03-2013, 10:53 AM
http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?562-First-Defiance-PC-Beta-Announced-Jan-18-20

"Defiance is scheduled for release in April 2013, and can be pre-ordered online soon, and now at major games retailers. "

Some people wondered, though it was pretty certain anyway.

Krazee DD
01-03-2013, 11:03 AM
Good news. I cant stand F2P games.

Zodiak
01-03-2013, 11:15 AM
I'd like to know where the preorders at major retailers are. I only see them at gamestop.

squidgod2000
01-03-2013, 11:18 AM
I'd like to know where the preorders at major retailers are. I only see them at gamestop.

http://www.amazon.com/Defiance-Standard-Playstation-3/dp/B00576U7W8/ref=sr_1_3?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1357237330&sr=1-3

Krazee DD
01-03-2013, 11:18 AM
I'd like to know where the preorders at major retailers are. I only see them at gamestop.


Im going to wait to see if any pre order bonuses pop up before pre ordering.

squidgod2000
01-03-2013, 11:22 AM
Some interesting tidbits in the Amazon product page:




A Massive, Persistent World - Fully realized, persistent open world (no loading screens between zones) set in a futuristic San Francisco Bay Area, supporting tens of thousands of live players.
Player Progression Evolved - Console-native shooter with a multitude of weapons armors, and special abilities that evolve with experience.



Could mean tens of thousands per server, but that seems unlikely.

Console-native means it's a port to PC, which means it'll have a ****ty console/controller-based interface that barely works with mouse/kb.

Zodiak
01-03-2013, 11:28 AM
http://www.amazon.com/Defiance-Standard-Playstation-3/dp/B00576U7W8/ref=sr_1_3?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1357237330&sr=1-3

The one on amazon has been up for weeks.

Marishaten
01-03-2013, 11:46 AM
Im going to wait to see if any pre order bonuses pop up before pre ordering.


Same here!

Deacon
01-03-2013, 11:50 AM
It's the business model I was expecting and I hope it will pan out great for Trion.

Kroktar
01-03-2013, 02:17 PM
You could preorder end of nations founder stuff.

dahanese
01-03-2013, 03:24 PM
Some interesting tidbits in the Amazon product page:



Could mean tens of thousands per server, but that seems unlikely.

Console-native means it's a port to PC, which means it'll have a ****ty console/controller-based interface that barely works with mouse/kb.

Swing by our live stream tomorrow: we'll be playing on PC with mouse and keyboard so we can show you how it works.

Krazee DD
01-03-2013, 03:35 PM
Swing by our live stream tomorrow: we'll be playing on PC with mouse and keyboard so we can show you how it works.

Awesome. Where can we find the live stream?

Colts87
01-03-2013, 03:42 PM
This is good to hear. Thanks for the info.

Tsubakixv
01-03-2013, 08:37 PM
Cool cool thanks for the news I was looking for this

Black_wraith
01-03-2013, 09:32 PM
so its just a 60$ upfront

Krazee DD
01-03-2013, 09:45 PM
so its just a 60$ upfront

There's talk of "premium content" and I hope it's not P2W or micro transactions. I just wanna pay for a game and play it without feeling like I'm missing out on something.

Tsubakixv
01-03-2013, 10:32 PM
I don't see anything about this "premium content" in any of the live streams or interviews. We will see in the months to come but I hope there isn't any that's game changing. I can understand cosmetics or convenience items though.

Fiancee
01-04-2013, 03:28 AM
B2P is assured if you considering the size of the budget. They need at least 1 mill, or even Rift might die I think. Shoulnt be that hard to be honest its for consoles and PCs. I think Rift had 600-700k pre-orders.

Fiancee
01-04-2013, 03:30 AM
I don't see anything about this "premium content" in any of the live streams or interviews. We will see in the months to come but I hope there isn't any that's game changing. I can understand cosmetics or convenience items though.

Premium services means, good customer service, monthly or content update every 2 month. Trion World adds more content to Rift every 6 week averagely, and trust me, they kept their words. Also premium services means mobile stuff what Rift uses to some extense, never used it myself but I know entire guilds who uses it.

Fiancee
01-04-2013, 03:42 AM
Some interesting tidbits in the Amazon product page:



Could mean tens of thousands per server, but that seems unlikely.

Console-native means it's a port to PC, which means it'll have a ****ty console/controller-based interface that barely works with mouse/kb.

If you think Rift its zones are already seamless, theres no loading screens. They just made zones here ALOT bigger, thats my guess and they probably uses same server technology as Rift.

Jenbuu
01-04-2013, 07:04 AM
Awesome. Where can we find the live stream?

you can find the live stream at http://www.twitch.tv/trionworlds

Allelujah
01-04-2013, 08:12 AM
I don't think that was ever in debate. Quite obvious that you would have the initial cost of the game. The only question is Monthly sub or free forever. Chances are it's going to be a sub.

squidgod2000
01-04-2013, 10:15 AM
I don't think that was ever in debate. Quite obvious that you would have the initial cost of the game. The only question is Monthly sub or free forever. Chances are it's going to be a sub.

It's going to B2P with DLC or a sub which includes all DLC (and likely other perks).

Not guessing--this is what they've announced.

MrBloodworth
01-04-2013, 10:28 AM
Free to play would be a better idea. Removing that barrier to entry is key thees days. I also would not take that as confirmation that it is NOT free to play. As you can pre-order many free to play games thees days that sell "packs".

Fiancee
01-04-2013, 10:31 AM
Free to play would be a better idea. Removing that barrier to entry is key thees days. I also would not take that as confirmation that it is NOT free to play. As you can pre-order many free to play games thees days that sell "packs".

Planetside 2 was yet another example of why that isnt true. They didnt attract that many people tbh. F2P market here in West isnt so big as people might think. Sure WoT is massive success last thing I heard there was over 40 mill registered users, and 25mill of them are from Russia.

Krazee DD
01-04-2013, 10:33 AM
Free to play would be a better idea. Removing that barrier to entry is key thees days. I also would not take that as confirmation that it is NOT free to play. As you can pre-order many free to play games thees days that sell "packs".

Free to play is now Fail to play. In about 5 months the market was over saturated with them.

Plus this style doesnt work at all on consoles.

MrBloodworth
01-04-2013, 10:36 AM
Planetside 2 was yet another example of why that isnt true. They didnt attract that many people tbh. F2P market here in West isnt so big as people might think. Sure WoT is massive success last thing I heard there was over 40 mill registered users.

Your crazy. F2P was a great idea for PS2 as well. That's another title I currently play. The original was not free to play, and was a huge mark against it at the time, due to most FPS players turning the nose up at box price and subscriptions to play. PS2 already surpassed the peak amount of players ever for the original in about a week.

Sure it had other issues, but as far as PS2, being free to play is not one of its issues. Its likely why its one of the most played games on steam currently, recently beating out Blops.

Any game launching with a box price and sub requirement will be fighting an uphill battle before the play button is even pressed.

Its a new time, and subs and box prices are dieing in the realm of MMO games. They will be part of the minority. Not to mention, this is a shooter, not a RPG in the traditional sense. Different set of gamers, that's before we even talk about console players.

There has been a recent explosion of F2P shooters, say what you want about them, but that's who this title will be competing with.

Fiancee
01-04-2013, 10:39 AM
Your crazy. F2P was a great idea for PS2 as well. That's another title I currently play. The original was not free to play, and was a huge mark against it at the time, due to most FPS players turning the nose up at box price and subscriptions to play. PS2 already surpassed the peak amount of players ever for the original in about a week.

Sure it had other issues, but as far as PS2, being free to play is not one of its issues. Its likely why its one of the most played games on steam currently, recently beating out Blops.

Any game launching with a box price and sub requirement will be fighting an uphill battle before the play button is even pressed.

Its a new time, and subs and box prices are dieing in the realm of MMO games. They will be part of the minority.

Says who? EA? ESO and Blizzard's Titan are both gonna be B2P games at least and most likely this too.

MrBloodworth
01-04-2013, 10:44 AM
Says who? EA? ESO and Blizzard's Titan are both gonna be B2P games at least and most likely this too.

And they will be part of the minority. With the backing of the blizzard brand allowing them to be. Trion, nor anyone else does not have that luxury to ride on.

Krazee DD
01-04-2013, 10:51 AM
I could go off on how F2P effects your mindset on the game and developer (deep stuff) but im too lazy right now.

F2P is part of a major gaming industry problem. (basically)

MrBloodworth
01-04-2013, 10:53 AM
Tell that to Trion, whose two other titles are F2p, with rift likely to follow.

Likely, the only reason this one would not be, is the console situation.

Krazee DD
01-04-2013, 10:55 AM
Tell that to Trion, whose two other titles are F2p, with rift likely to follow.

Likely, the only reason this one would not be, is the console situation.

I just did......

MrBloodworth
01-04-2013, 10:57 AM
Good for you?

Chandrae
01-04-2013, 10:57 AM
Premium services means, good customer service, monthly or content update every 2 month. Trion World adds more content to Rift every 6 week averagely, and trust me, they kept their words. Also premium services means mobile stuff what Rift uses to some extense, never used it myself but I know entire guilds who uses it.

Yes to this!

Why people complain over a lousy $10.00 to $15.00 a month baffles me. A single meal at a chain restaraunt costs the same. It is pretty cheap entertainment.

:confused:

Krazee DD
01-04-2013, 11:03 AM
Good for you?

Just doing what you tell me.

Helsynge
01-04-2013, 04:41 PM
I'm becoming quite a fan of Trion, I've been following End Of Nations with keen interest and now Defiance has caught my eye after being disappointed with the vehicle spam in PS2. I prefer infantry gameplay and although I enjoyed the occasional david vs goliath scenario in relation to tanks, being camped by half a dozen or more tanks/aircraft with little to no action elsewhere just wasn't my cup of tea.

So glad it's not free to play as that'll reduce the chances of hackers ruining the fun, I was absolutely dreading the thought of it but had faith in Trion to make the right decision ^_^

Tsubakixv
01-04-2013, 07:39 PM
Yes to this!

Why people complain over a lousy $10.00 to $15.00 a month baffles me. A single meal at a chain restaraunt costs the same. It is pretty cheap entertainment.

:confused:

Subs are a dying breed. Buy to Play with cosmetic/convenience cash shop is the way to go. You make more money that way and you don't segregate the community between who bought the DLC and who didn't. There's nothing wrong with the Buy to Play model so there's no reason to change it. I hope Trion plays it smart and goes Buy to Play with cash shop as I feel the nickel and diming of content is a bit irritating after you buy the box at full price.

TLDR; Copy Guild Wars 2 model. Release content updates for free and charge for the initial box or cosmetics/convenience items with an expansion every year or so for $20-30 that has sufficient amount of content to justify it as a true expansion.

Troster
01-10-2013, 08:30 PM
Subs are a dying breed. Buy to Play with cosmetic/convenience cash shop is the way to go. You make more money that way and you don't segregate the community between who bought the DLC and who didn't. There's nothing wrong with the Buy to Play model so there's no reason to change it. I hope Trion plays it smart and goes Buy to Play with cash shop as I feel the nickel and diming of content is a bit irritating after you buy the box at full price.

TLDR; Copy Guild Wars 2 model. Release content updates for free and charge for the initial box or cosmetics/convenience items with an expansion every year or so for $20-30 that has sufficient amount of content to justify it as a true expansion.

I agree B2P is looking to be the funding model that will become the dominant one. However, I feel an AAA mmo will need to charge more than $20-30 once a year for a main expansion. I see it needing to be closer to the purchase price of the original game. i.e more like $60. Even that only equates to $5 per month if you look at the cost spread over the year.

Feydakin
01-11-2013, 05:57 AM
Retail box plus monthly subscription fee is all but a dead business model in the mainstream western MMOG market. Every single major MMOG that has released in the west over the last year or more has either launched or gone subless in one form or another. There are three major exceptions, WoW, Rift and EVE Online, but honestly the only one I wouldn't count out at this point is WoW. Any MMOG style game that releases with a mandatory subscription fee is dooming itself to mediocre sales at best and a terrible retention rate past the first paid month. The western market is way too saturated with good MMOGs with little barrier to entry and no subscription fee... I say embrace a business model like Guild Wars 2 is using and you will do great in this marketplace.

Truhart
01-11-2013, 06:04 AM
Retail box plus monthly subscription fee is all but a dead business model in the mainstream western MMOG market. Every single major MMOG that has released in the west over the last year or more has either launched or gone subless in one form or another. There are three major exceptions, WoW, Rift and EVE Online, but honestly the only one I wouldn't count out at this point is WoW. Any MMOG style game that releases with a mandatory subscription fee is dooming itself to mediocre sales at best and a terrible retention rate past the first paid month. The western market is way too saturated with good MMOGs with little barrier to entry and no subscription fee... I say embrace a business model like Guild Wars 2 is using and you will do great in this marketplace.

Totally disaree, make the game so good that people will want to pay monthly sub, like the Wow Crowd, think there game is. It would make the game stand out from the rest IMHO.

Pasha
01-11-2013, 06:08 AM
$60? I'm scared to think what will be the price for EU... Really bad pricing and whole b2p idea: I still have to check TSW and GW2 (both can be bought for $60) - because I simply don't have time and motivation for them having SWTOR, LOTRO, EVE, Planetside 2, WoT, LoL accounts + unfinished Skyrim.

P.S. During its first month I've spent on F2P Planetside 2 much more than on any other subscription / B2P game and much more happy about it.

Truhart
01-11-2013, 06:27 AM
$60? I'm scared to think what will be the price for EU... Really bad pricing and whole b2p idea: I still have to check TSW and GW2 (both can be bought for $60) - because I simply don't have time and motivation for them having SWTOR, LOTRO, EVE, Planetside 2, WoT, LoL accounts + unfinished Skyrim.

P.S. During its first month I've spent on F2P Planetside 2 much more than on any other subscription / B2P game and much more happy about it.

If the game is good enough dont care what the price is as long as its within reason, also Plantside sucks but just my opinion.

Firaxes
01-11-2013, 11:14 AM
I believe the $60 entry for this game is a terrible decision by Trion. Being a cross media title it would seem one of their primary goals should be to make entry as painless as possible. By linking this title with the SyFy show, they appear to be hoping to pull in people who watch the show and entice them to try the game. I have a feeling the $60 barrier will block a substantial amount of people who would otherwise give it a try.

Now Iím not 100% sold on the F2P trend but it is a reality of the current market. This is the type of game however that I think itís tailor made for. Give people who otherwise may not consider the game easy access, even if limited, and then charge for services/conveniences once theyíre in. I know those that are already sold on this game and ready to plunk down $60 will totally disagree. I completely understand how you feel, but Iím not sure there are enough of you to provide the targeted user base. Looking at this as a straight online shooter, there are just too many other good F2P options, primarily Planetside2 & Firefall.

So I initially wondered how long it would take before a F2P conversion would occur but if/when it does occur, I feel it will already be too late. The time to capitalize will be at launch while excitement is highest for both the game and the show. Once that passes, I think a decent percentage of people who might have wanted to join the game at launch will choose not to give it a try later.

Obviously just my opinion but we shouldnít have to wait too long after launch to find out if I am right. If the numbers are substantially lower than hoped for, as I believe they will be, people at Trion will be scrambling to make changes before itís too late. Although as stated, I believe it already will beÖ

Retsopmi
01-11-2013, 11:19 AM
I believe the $60 entry for this game is a terrible decision by Trion. Being a cross media title it would seem one of their primary goals should be to make entry as painless as possible. By linking this title with the SyFy show, they appear to be hoping to pull in people who watch the show and entice them to try the game. I have a feeling the $60 barrier will block a substantial amount of people who would otherwise give it a try.

Now Iím not 100% sold on the F2P trend but it is a reality of the current market. This is the type of game however that I think itís tailor made for. Give people who otherwise may not consider the game easy access, even if limited, and then charge for services/conveniences once theyíre in. I know those that are already sold on this game and ready to plunk down $60 will totally disagree. I completely understand how you feel, but Iím not sure there are enough of you to provide the targeted user base. Looking at this as a straight online shooter, there are just too many other good F2P options, primarily Planetside2 & Firefall.

So I initially wondered how long it would take before a F2P conversion would occur but if/when it does occur, I feel it will already be too late. The time to capitalize will be at launch while excitement is highest for both the game and the show. Once that passes, I think a decent percentage of people who might have wanted to join the game at launch will choose not to give it a try later.

Obviously just my opinion but we shouldnít have to wait too long after launch to find out if I am right. If the numbers are substantially lower than hoped for, as I believe they will be, people at Trion will be scrambling to make changes before itís too late. Although as stated, I believe it already will beÖ

It will never go fully F2P. Console games HAVE to have a disc price. The standard disc price is 59.99. They already said they are aiming for a hybrid system. Buy the box and then you have two choices. Pay a monthly sub and get everything for free, or buy all the DLC when you want to and play for free.

Honestly 60$ isn't a barrier. If people can't, or aren't willing, to spend the 60$ to give the game a shot. Then they would just be a money drain in F2P cause they wouldn't spend anything anyways. To many people want to play everything without paying anything now a days.

Deathrow
01-11-2013, 11:24 AM
Are you guys talking 'bout 60 dollars as monthly fee?

EDIT: Nevermind , I know whats going on now..

Galadeon
01-11-2013, 11:29 AM
Are you guys talking 'bout 60 dollars as monthly fee?

No. It will be $60 to buy the game (like GW2).

Deathrow
01-11-2013, 11:30 AM
No. It will be $60 to buy the game (like GW2).

Oh thank god , I was 'bout to freak out..

Draugkir
01-11-2013, 11:48 AM
Good news. I cant stand F2P games.

same here.


If the game is good enough dont care what the price is as long as its within reason, also Plantside sucks but just my opinion.

yuppers.. i dont get ps2 appeal at all.

Feydakin
01-11-2013, 03:17 PM
To the room; Being a cross-platform title, the game having a box price point around $60 is a foregone conclusion. What happens after that is certainly not... Also, you're personal, subjective opinion of a game has exactly zero bearing on the quality of it's business model and how well that business model works.

Nervusbreakdown
01-11-2013, 04:02 PM
Totally disaree, make the game so good that people will want to pay monthly sub, like the Wow Crowd, think there game is. It would make the game stand out from the rest IMHO.

What world do you live in?
Mostly everybody wants Pay to play.

Nervusbreakdown
01-11-2013, 04:08 PM
I also played Planetside 2 and that game is ***** all the way!

Nervusbreakdown
01-11-2013, 04:10 PM
It's going to B2P with DLC or a sub which includes all DLC (and likely other perks).

Not guessing--this is what they've announced.

or season pass, that have been working really well.

SkyRobo1
01-11-2013, 06:44 PM
Well that's good. I never did like F2P and P2P is too expensive.

Zansatsu
01-11-2013, 06:48 PM
If the game is good enough dont care what the price is as long as its within reason, also Plantside sucks but just my opinion.

Planetside kinda make you buy the stuff with real money. You dont have pay but it's so much easier that way

ETD
01-11-2013, 06:49 PM
Planetside kinda make you buy the stuff with real money. You dont have pay but it's so much easier that way

Welcome to free to play games? It's the same with every one, they have to make money. Companies do not run on rainbows and good will.

Zansatsu
01-11-2013, 06:51 PM
Welcome to free to play games? It's the same with every one, they have to make money. Companies do not run on rainbows and good will.

Well that is true but good example is LoL you can get everything except skins with a bit effort. but Planetside is rly rly hard. like make 1000 cert points.

Ravenminded
01-11-2013, 06:52 PM
I don't see the big deal with any model, they all have their positives and negatives. I'd like to see more Buy to Play models out there but with a game like Defiance being linked with a TV show I sort of think the Subscription model might work out better... still people tend to drift a lot with TV shows and games so they may have gone B2P for good reason. We'll just have to wait and see how the game plays I think.

8BitRager
01-11-2013, 07:06 PM
I'll give it a year. Rift went F2P so they're gonna cash this up for the meantime. This isn't a game style that's meant to have a Box Retail version. This is a subscription quality game but the box copies validates solid income for people who do buy it.
Like I said, I'll give it a year until it goes F2P.

ocktos
01-12-2013, 12:11 AM
If they went with the buy to play method, purchasable dlc... or opt for subscription fee, to receive the dlc at no additional cost. Considering they are also launching for consoles as well, i'd highly take the route of buy to play, now if this game was strictly on PC. i'd agree with only subscription base model.

But back to the buy to play route coupled with Xbox/Ps3 they'd have a huge market to gain since they'd offer a new take on something similar as borderlands... of course its not the same game, but in general people who love borderlands will give this game a shot, which would add a even more publicity for the tv show another ?? i'd say 10-15% more viewers outa somthing like 5 million copies sold of borderlands, new viewers interested from the game wouldn't hurt.

I mean lets face it... sure in the buy to pay model maybe some people wont buy all the dlc, but you'd still grab the 60$ just buying it.... lets say 20-30$ a dlc pack if trion launched lets say 3 dlc packs out a year... im sure that one guy who wouldnt even picked up the game if he knew it was a subscription game would probably buy.. 1 or probably 2 out of the 3 dlcs. but then again what do i know?

Soren
01-12-2013, 01:21 AM
Buy to play is great. Means I won't have to worry about trying to juggle two subscriptions between Trion's MMOs since I play RIFT. :P And it's perfect for Console gamers. Guessing there will also be a cash shop within the game, which makes sense since they need to retain a flow of revenue/income (especially if Trion intends on updating the game as frequently as RIFT!). Hopefully if there are any weapons/gear in the shop they'll only be cosmetic though, assuming gear in this game will have stats.

Soooo looking forward to this game @_@

Soren
01-12-2013, 01:26 AM
Rift went F2P so they're gonna cash this up for the meantime.


...What?

.......No seriously, what?

Where in the world did you hear that nonsense?

Unless me and several thousands of other players are in a parallel dimension, RIFT is still very much a subscription MMO and Trion hasn't given any indication that it's going to be turning F2P. Now, there is an unlimited free trial up to level 20, so technically it is free to play up to level 20. Past that, you'll have to buy the game and subscribe.

skeeby
01-25-2013, 10:26 AM
The game isnt even out, let alone ready, and they kill it already with this price tag. GG.

DuoMaxwell007
01-25-2013, 10:34 AM
The game isnt even out, let alone ready, and they kill it already with this price tag. GG.

kill it with the price tag? by selling it for the SAME price EVERY OTHER brand new console game on 360 and PS3 cost? umm ok

skeeby
01-25-2013, 10:39 AM
I believe the $60 entry for this game is a terrible decision by Trion. Being a cross media title it would seem one of their primary goals should be to make entry as painless as possible. By linking this title with the SyFy show, they appear to be hoping to pull in people who watch the show and entice them to try the game. I have a feeling the $60 barrier will block a substantial amount of people who would otherwise give it a try.

Now I’m not 100% sold on the F2P trend but it is a reality of the current market. This is the type of game however that I think it’s tailor made for. Give people who otherwise may not consider the game easy access, even if limited, and then charge for services/conveniences once they’re in. I know those that are already sold on this game and ready to plunk down $60 will totally disagree. I completely understand how you feel, but I’m not sure there are enough of you to provide the targeted user base. Looking at this as a straight online shooter, there are just too many other good F2P options, primarily Planetside2 & Firefall.

So I initially wondered how long it would take before a F2P conversion would occur but if/when it does occur, I feel it will already be too late. The time to capitalize will be at launch while excitement is highest for both the game and the show. Once that passes, I think a decent percentage of people who might have wanted to join the game at launch will choose not to give it a try later.

Obviously just my opinion but we shouldn’t have to wait too long after launch to find out if I am right. If the numbers are substantially lower than hoped for, as I believe they will be, people at Trion will be scrambling to make changes before it’s too late. Although as stated, I believe it already will be…

This this this!

Why make a game thats releasing SIDE BY SIDE with their syfy show, encouraging people to play/watch it, yet put the ridiculous price of $60 on it? Both Trion and Syfy have invested a ton of their money into this project and are pretty much boned if it fails.

This game was going to be hard enough to populate being SCI-FI and a completely new IP, now they pretty much cockblocked themselves.

Elrian
01-25-2013, 11:06 AM
What they could have done is offer a founder program where people could chose to contribute (or not) in exchange for in-game cosmetics items.

Several games have done it successfully.

But personally buy to play isn't that bad what really hurts is the subscription and here there won't be any.

HOAX
01-25-2013, 03:03 PM
Would defiance cone out with a Mac version
There alot of mac players who I know would love this game
For mac most of these players are on WOW witch have 12 million players

So if they had a new better shooter open world mmo I think they
Would make the switch
???

HOAX