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View Full Version : A change I wish they'd make to retain me as a customer



sarbonn
05-05-2013, 08:26 AM
I've been stuck on the Jackleg Joe (or whatever it's called) mission pretty much since when I started this game. I've read forum posts on it, watched numerous Youtube videos, sought out spiritual swamis in the deserts of Barstow, and pretty much tried to make as powerful a character as possible to counter the mission, but I've not succeeded. I die each time. Part of it is a bit of a handicap on my part (I have nerve damage in my main hand), but it hasn't affected me in any other part of the game (targeting those smelter guys is practically impossible for me when aiming for the canister and still managing to live). So, I can understand the "well, the game isn't for you, so go find something simpler like LEGOLAND" or whatever.

The point is: I love the game. I like all of the aspects of it. The chat could be better (well, all the social features could be better), but overall it's been a lot of fun. But I can't advance the story line at all. And it's becoming very frustrating.

So, my desire (as everyone who rage quits seems to offer their smorgasbord of "fix this now that I've leaving" posts. I'm not rage quitting, or even quitting, but I felt that even those that decide to tough it out should get an input as well as the ones that took their ball and went home) is to either make it possible to skip a mission or two, or make it so that friends can help you on these specific missions. Let's face it. It's an MMO, not a single player game. There's absolutely NO REASON that they set up a requirement within the game that forces you to single it when the purpose of the game is both social and MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER.

Anyway, those are my ideas that I don't expect will be implemented or even considered. But as I've practically given up ever solving that one mission, I felt I had to say something before I finally gave up and just left. Unlike most, I tend to just quit a game quietly and let the devs try to figure why they're losing people. This time, I could actually see a solution, but I get the impression they really don't care.

ghost_ol3a
05-05-2013, 08:31 AM
jump box in back and shoot down. i also shot the other two guys only when i had to. most of the time they shoot at the chic

Orge Lambart
05-05-2013, 08:31 AM
is it really so difficult? Melee the smelter and then shot one or two bullets into their back pack and they'll run off under Jackleg Joe, then you shoot him. It took me a half hour as I kept killing the smelters before their back packs would blow up, try using a fire element gun.

As for making you do it solo? Is that the case, if so yeah they should open up missions like Jackleg and Nim and let multiple people do them at the same time, after all like you said it is an MMO.

Predator
05-05-2013, 08:32 AM
Do you have gamer friends? Maybe they can help you and finish that mssion for youi?

I killed the final boss in my first try but failed about 6 times on Joe, at first I did'nt know what to do and was really angry that you have to complete some missions entierely alone, because I played the rest all with my best friend 2gether and in the end this is an MMO, isn't it? I hope they change it but I am not sure. :confused:

sarbonn
05-05-2013, 08:34 AM
Do you have gamer friends? Maybe they can help you and finish that mssion for youi?

I killed the final boss in my first try but failed about 6 times on Joe, at first I did'nt know what to do and was really angry that you have to complete some missions entierely alone, because I played the rest all with my best friend 2gether and in the end this is an MMO, isn't it? I hope they change it but I am not sure. :confused:

It's a single person mission. You can't bring friends. That was my whole recommendation.

tiptoebox
05-05-2013, 08:35 AM
Here is what I did. Hide behind one of the barriers and when the little guy runs after you just drop a grenade straight down on the ground and run. And when it goes off and if it does not kill the guy it starts him on fire. You dont have to even shot a bullet. Maybe i used a flash grenade can't remember. Anyways its easy if you do that.

tiptoebox
05-05-2013, 08:36 AM
You then have to shoot the big guy at top. It takes a little time.

diggergig
05-05-2013, 08:38 AM
I hear ya, OP. I too have a slight less-than-stellar ability, and in fact that was kind of the point of me getting this and not some single player shooter. And they go an put single player sections in? **Shakes head**

I have done all the side missions now, and I still can't progress past him, because nobody can help. Wouldn't be a problem if I AT LEAST spawned back in the room with his health bar the same as I left it.

Will try one more time, then leave it until I hear it has been nerfed or changed to allow multiplayer, or I just wont bother with the game any more. I play to have fun, and this is most certainly not fun now.

Predator
05-05-2013, 08:38 AM
It's a single person mission. You can't bring friends. That was my whole recommendation.

I know mate, you misunderstood me. They could come to your place in reallife and do it with your keyboard n mouse / gamepad on your PC / console. Or maybe log on with your account. ;)

sarbonn
05-05-2013, 08:56 AM
I hear ya, OP. I too have a slight less-than-stellar ability, and in fact that was kind of the point of me getting this and not some single player shooter. And they go an put single player sections in? **Shakes head**

I have done all the side missions now, and I still can't progress past him, because nobody can help. Wouldn't be a problem if I AT LEAST spawned back in the room with his health bar the same as I left it.

Will try one more time, then leave it until I hear it has been nerfed or changed to allow multiplayer, or I just wont bother with the game any more. I play to have fun, and this is most certainly not fun now.

Yep, that's the boat I'm in as well. Unfortunately, I don't think the devs are going to do anything to help, figuring that people will figure it out themselves, which is what will cause more of us to leave and find other games.

sarbonn
05-05-2013, 08:57 AM
I know mate, you misunderstood me. They could come to your place in reallife and do it with your keyboard n mouse / gamepad on your PC / console. Or maybe log on with your account. ;)

Okay, I understand your point now. Unfortunately, that's not an option for me. I'm in my 40s, and most people who "hang out" with me still have trouble figuring out what a computer is.

ItISLupus
05-05-2013, 09:06 AM
My two cents.

loadout: rapid fire weapon. Nano personal preference. shotgun, any kind. nano Syphon Grenade:Pyro

any perk you can grab to lower your damage taken, increase reload speed, ego recharge, grenade recharge(Self medicated: self revive recharge -45%). Ego: personal preference. I'd go with cloak for shield regen.

for the fight. Stay back. like people said, the mobs will often time target the chick. keep your shotgun in hand, syphon will save your life. When you see a pyro, drop his shield with your shotgun and toss your fire nade.(melee also works)

At this point the bosses shield should be down, swap to your rapid fire weapon and unload on him.

Rinse and repeat, once he is on the ground you should just be able to unload on him with your shotgun, with syphon proccing rather often

khanstruct
05-05-2013, 09:12 AM
I was actually a little concerned about this. I'm decent with shooters; by no means a "pro", but I'm not bad. Initially, I had an awful time with Jackleg Joe, and even told a friend; "there will be a ton of players bottlenecking there." Its just to difficult for an "average" player (not you guys who grew up on CoD).

The good new is, there are no other missions like that... until you get to the end.

Really though, I agree. Why have the most difficult parts of the game be areas you HAVE to do alone? Good luck to ya!

Warhead
05-05-2013, 09:15 AM
For me it was all about decoy. With decoy, the smelters turn their back, making their tanks an easy target. Once the tanks are shot, they run under jack and down goes his shield. Also, in the main battle, it helps to divert the Mattocks' attention, making them easy prey for grenades. It also helps with Jack because you can get a breather for your shields to recharge. Shotgun and assault rifle make a good pair for this fight. Shotgun for bum rushing smelters and assault rifle for everything else. A grenade shotgun is a bonus. I had one and it mad things go much smoother.

MacDeath
05-05-2013, 09:15 AM
I too think it's silly that an MMO doesn't support helping friends kill bad guys together.

sarbonn
05-05-2013, 09:16 AM
I was actually a little concerned about this. I'm decent with shooters; by no means a "pro", but I'm not bad. Initially, I had an awful time with Jackleg Joe, and even told a friend; "there will be a ton of players bottlenecking there." Its just to difficult for an "average" player (not you guys who grew up on CoD).

The good new is, there are no other missions like that... until you get to the end.

Really though, I agree. Why have the most difficult parts of the game be areas you HAVE to do alone? Good luck to ya!

I figure I'll give them a few more weeks to address the issue. If they decide it's not an "issue" for them, then I'll just move on. No hate. No anger. Just not worth playing a game that won't let me get through it. I suspect they'll lose a lot of quiet players because of stuff like this.

Mirimon
05-05-2013, 09:23 AM
OP.. IF YOU LISTEN TO THE AUDIO OF THE GAME (i know.. who does that anymore) she clearly tells you how to defeat him. This fight is not difficult.. in fact.. there are a few other moments in the game, certain side mission, that is slightly difficult.

Trion has done it all for you already, including giving you loot for doing next to nothing.

challenge (and I mean challenge.. not just throwing waves of fodder) is something games have been lacking since the old days, and was half the adventure of the old games. Nobody remembers a game, saying, "yeah man, I remember that game, I logged on and BAM i won .. was soo fun!", ... no, they talk about how a game had some moments where defeating something took a moment of thought and some trial and error. Sure.. Defiance is less indicative of how to defeat certain things unlike WoW or Halo, where giant targets and huge flashing messages across your screen tell you exactly what to do all the time....

If you wanted games that offer absolutely no real challenge may I suggest you go play yahtzee or a nice game of "who can eat all their crayons first"....



oh yeah.. and why does it matter if you stay or go? they already got your money... you arent paying a sub....

BraveDude8
05-05-2013, 09:24 AM
I figure I'll give them a few more weeks to address the issue. If they decide it's not an "issue" for them, then I'll just move on. No hate. No anger. Just not worth playing a game that won't let me get through it. I suspect they'll lose a lot of quiet players because of stuff like this.

As someone who is pretty average at shooters, I got through him first time. I honestly don't see what is so hard about him. Just remember to shoot the smelter backpacks. And siphon weapons. LOTS OF THEM.

Jackobite
05-05-2013, 09:26 AM
I wish I could help :(

My first fight with him I did get a feeling of WTF, why did they just triple the difficulty of this game.
and im not sure if anyones mentioned it yet but.... omfg wait till you get to Nim!

One thing I did remember is one time I got to the second stage and he came down but he still had his shield :( I couldnt damage him and had to die but it did fix its self out and I got thru it but its a big step compared to other missions.

For the little flame dudes I smacked them with mellee attack and pistoled them in the back, can only wish you luck and if they do change it to let mates help you send me a /tell if you can.

3rdpig
05-05-2013, 09:41 AM
I hate to tell you this, but they're not going to change it because it's just not that hard to do if he's not bugged and you do it right. I'm 55 and I've beaten him 3 times. My FIL who's 73 has beaten him also, but with a lot of difficulty.

Most of the advice given you is good (with the exception of a few arseholes as usual). Melee the smelters and they drop to the floor, shoot their backpacks once or twice (but not enough to kill them), they burst into flames and run under Joe and explode, his shields go down and you shoot him. After a few times of this he comes down off his perch. Now he's just another 99'er Blacklung. Avoid his grenades and whittle him down.

If all else fails find someone who can beat him that you trust, have them log into your account from their computer and do it for you, then change your password when done. If you're on PC NA I'm willing to do it for you. The cut scene afterwards isn't anything special, after you beat him Rosa walks up, puts a bullet in his head and takes the credit.

Ninja Unicorn X
05-05-2013, 09:45 AM
Have your real life friend come over and beat the one mission for you. Otherwise my advice is respark shield shortest recharge delay. Then two weapons that do fire damage and pyro grenades. After that it is more about patience than skill.

DejaVooDoo
05-05-2013, 09:47 AM
I did this mission by pistol whipping the smelters then using a pistol to put one shot in their packs w/o killing them. However I've also heard that you can use a pyro or shock grenade and that will light the packs w/o killing as well.

deathacre
05-05-2013, 09:54 AM
I found biological grenades, the ones that put the goo on their feet, works great for lighting the smelters backpacks. When Cass says "here comes a smelter", just toss one between you and where the smelters come from. They will run through it and eventually light on fire, no bullets needed. Then snipe Joe's head a couple times. Repeat several times till he comes down.

Xenosaj
05-05-2013, 09:57 AM
I know OP isn't going to want to hear this, but Mirimon and others are right. This really is an easy game; I'm not the fastest when it comes to figuring out an unusual fight, but even I managed to get this fight down after a few tries and realizing "oh duh, I have to shoot the little guys to blow up the big guy".

A few points to keep in mind:

I'm sorry about your disability. That however isn't Trion's fault or responsibility; bringing it up paints you as someone begging for pity. We don't change the rules of major sports just because one of the players has an injury, why would this be different? It's not like a sports player's buddies can do his physical training for him.
Very little in this game so far is actually challenging. This is coming from someone who hasn't bothered to respec and optimize his EGO grid, to carefully select weapons and perks for loadouts, etc. I.e. I haven't gone out of my way to make things less difficult for myself, and I really haven't had that hard a time with anything so far, and no, dieing a few times attempting a mission isn't having a hard time, it's called learning.
What I think a lot of players tend to forget is that a game company probably has specific goals in mind when they tune a game. Trion probably wanted there to at least be a few fairly challenging points in this game; think how stupid easy Jackleg would be if even one more person were there. Trion probably also wants the players to think and learn for themselves rather than be carried like WoW does; if it occurs to you how a second player could distract the smelters for you to shoot them, maybe it should also occur to you that Decoy does this job as well.

Know what the great thing is though? You're not required to use Decoy! I did it the "hard" way like someone else mentioned: melee the smelters, run behind them, blast them, shoot Jackleg. I myself have a hard time at times remembering to stop and think "Ok, this isn't working, what else can I do?" Not doing that isn't Trion's fault though. How many attempts at Jackleg did you make? How many different weapons and ego abiltities/perks did you try? How many websites did you check looking for other players' strats on this fight? I can completely understand the frustration, but judging by OP's post it sounds like he didn't put a whole lot into it. Again, not Trion's fault.
Realize that you are not the only person playing this game, and that no game can ever be made for everyone. It's impossible to put out a game that pleases everyone. No matter what Trion does with Defiance, someone isn't going to like it, or a particular mission, or how their favorite weapon isn't the most powerful, and so on. Complaining about this and talking about how they're going to lose players because of it is just stupid. Players are always coming and going in any mmo. I might as well complain about how Hello Kitty doesn't include Transformers.


I fully expect OP to ignore everything I've said here, and frankly that's ok. Personally I think Defiance is an easy game; I'm a 33-year-old male but my reflexes and aiming aren't top notch anymore, yet I'm progressing just fine (all main and side missions complete, currently working through pursuits and challenges). I think it would be a mistake to make the game even easier, if the goal is to retain customers; I have a hard time getting gold on the time trials, but at least it's actually a challenge. Note though that I'm not asking them to make the game harder, but I don't want to see it made easier either. Players need a reminder that they're not almighty gods who one-shot everything their first try. Players need a challenge.

If you don't enjoy this game or just can't figure out what to do or physically can't pass a given challenge, then yes, this game isn't for you and you should find something better suited to your desires/needs rather than asking for them to tailor the game to you.

theManinBlack
05-05-2013, 10:04 AM
Another option is a smg or at for main weapon. Something you. Can hit him with hip fire without trouble. And a guided rocket launcher as your secondary. If you don't have one play until you can open enough t2 boxes to get one. I have a bad controller and had to find an easy way as well. Stay in the back left corner and duck out to kill until the cut scene. Then switch to your guided rocket launcher lock on to the little bugger and let it rip when you have good line of sight and lock. Lights him every time. Hide until his shield is down, switch to main weapon. Hit joe when his shields are down from cover if possible. Rinse and repeat until he hops down. Then it is all down to running and spraying him from the hip reapply when he jumps down and you should be good until he is dead.

diggergig
05-05-2013, 10:11 AM
Didn't mean to hijack the OP's thread, but just got off trying that level and saw his post.

My problem with this is that it doesn't match with what the game reported to offer, which was a multiplayer experience. Why have forced single-player sections in it at all? I wonder if the OP had known these parts were coming up in the game, he would have perhaps saved his money?

To those who gave helpful replies, many thanks - will try those tips out!

To those who, for whatever reasons best known to their egos (pun intended) decided on a condescending reply, a different kind of thanks. Thanks for making me glad I don't know you in real life, although I'm sure that when you're not busy attempting to tramp on someone else's opinion you're really a swell person.

EDIT: Did it and beat it thanks to your advice - thanks!

Rumbleskin
05-05-2013, 10:15 AM
Use a swarm cannon easy mode

QseftJohn
05-05-2013, 10:30 AM
use a submachine gun with fire trigger effect, you can get one in the supply store near the Van Bach Industries store I used one and I had a roughly 50/50 chance of setting them on fire before I killed them (don't aim for the head). if your aiming problem is to much for that get that one missile launcher that set its targets one fire, (I for the name but you will know it when you see the description)

HaZeY
05-05-2013, 10:31 AM
Op and anyone else having problems with this mission, I have done it three times, I have the easiest way. Get a rocket launcher. Swarm cannon I think(the one that explodes into more rockets exploding). Kill everyone with preffered weapon until people have to start spawning in. When enemies start spawning to replenish the fallen, pull out a rocket launcher. Kill regular enemies. The guys with the exploding packs spawn from the hatch in the ground. When you hear it open shoot one rocket in front of the hatch. The rockets that spawn from main explosion will get the guys if they run. A rocket blast will not kill them but will ignite their packs.

When jackleg can be hit, do not use the rocket launcher. Use lmg, smg, or ar. I prefer smg for fast accurate hip fire. Also using overcharge helps a lot.

The best place to stand in my opinion, is behind the box on the left as soon as you jump down. Good cover and enemies can only engage you from right or left of your position. If you miss the exploding guy when they spawn , relax, they can still be used effectivley from anywhere on that area.

Sorry for typos, poor format, and grammar. I'm at work and rushing through this post.
Hope it helps.

Mutated Spleen
05-05-2013, 10:31 AM
I have a lot of trouble hitting the canisters as well, but I found using a large spread shotgun (pump, 9 round mag), helped a lot. You don't have to do a ton of damage to the back, just a hit or two.

goose2241
05-05-2013, 10:36 AM
Use a detonator. Splash damage will bust open their tanks each time and its easy to find extra ammo for it with the ammo box. use a distance gun (assault rifle or LMG) to switch to to kill joe.

TheRealTFreezy
05-05-2013, 10:36 AM
Here is what I did. Hide behind one of the barriers and when the little guy runs after you just drop a grenade straight down on the ground and run. And when it goes off and if it does not kill the guy it starts him on fire. You dont have to even shot a bullet. Maybe i used a flash grenade can't remember. Anyways its easy if you do that.

The flash grenades automatically set the smelters on fire. OP try that then they will run in and take out joe then you can shoot him. Oh and use decoy. From what I've read it's the easiest to beat any boss with and can really save your ***