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View Full Version : I'm disappointed, and I'm allowed to be. (long)



Gero
05-07-2013, 10:44 PM
I've seen arguments for and against this game. I want to make it clear that this is neither. I did very much enjoy this game for the first few weeks it was out. I love the concept and the world trion and syfy has created, but I like many other find the game lacking in pretty much every feature. Now, many people are also still enjoying the game, and that's good for them. That doesn't mean that we were handed a good, or complete product.

Now, I say I'm not against the game because I still have hope and want to see it do well, but I do feel like we were handed a very unfinished product. I say very because even if you're still enjoying the game its clearly lacking in basic MMO features, and thats not even touching on the tons of bugs and glitches that are present in the game.

Touching on a few MAJOR things that are lacking in this 'mmo'-

1. SOCIAL INTERACTION!!!!
How trion seemed to skip over the most basic and most important aspect of a MMO is beyond me. There's literally very little to no interaction with other players in the game in any meaningful way. There's no need, and no reward for grouping up. There is no major city or hub for players to interact and the chat system is just outright bad. It makes this 'mmo' feel like a subpar single player game most of the time.

2. Rewarding time spent in game-
Once again this is a major draw to a mmo is some sense of gain. When you complete content, you want to be rewarded for the time spent. Defiance doesn't have that at all.
Finish a dungeon? 5 keys
Finish a round of pvp? 1 key
Do a dynamic event? 0 keys

The locked box system is just outright awful and a pretty clear attempt to get people to use the cash store. The chances of getting anything worthwhile are EXTREMELY low. Then the chance that it would be a weapon type that you have or are leveling is even lower. At almost 2k ego I've gotten 2 legendaries. A double barrel shotty and a shield that was ultimately bad for my play style. So over all I have yet to see a single rare item worth using. Dungeons should have a chance to drop rare loot, pvp and events should be more rewarding. No one wants to run 13 dungeons for a tier 4 locked box and then end up with 2 blues and 2 greens that they just junk.

3. A Social Economy-
When was the last time you saw a mmo come out with no form of an auction house?! How did this even happen? Of course the question comes to mind 'Was this another attempt to force us into the cash shop?'

I would have to guess yes, because I could see no other reason to leave out something so basic. Also, making and spending money in a mmo is one of the major time killers. High level mods, guns and equipment would be desirable even if they didn't fit your playstyle because they would be major cash cows! Still, this is once again a draw that the game SHOULD have but doesn't.


Of course there is more but I would say those are the most major and most basic things this game is lacking for claiming to be a MMORPG. Despite what trion or anyone else says now that is how the game was marketed. So now we go on to my next point and where most of my disappointment truly comes in. The marketing. This game was build up to be AMAZING! Calming features, and show tie ins that well, just aren't there. I see a lot of folks crying false advertisement, I would simply call it 'over embellishment to an extreme'.

The tie ins are lackluster and truly lazy. There has been no new real content since launch and if anything we've LOST content with 1 of the pvp maps being pulled pretty much since day one. That wouldn't be so bad IF this game had a lot of content at launch. Borderlands 2 came out of the box with much more content than this game, and that wasn't even a mmo.

Content this game is lacking (on top of the basic things I metioned before)

1. NPC's-
As a FPS this game is clearly going to lose some of the levels of complexity some other MMORPGS boast. There's only so much you can do with 2 guns and a ego button. That being said the interesting features of combat should have been held in how to handle npcs. The game fall short in every regard when we talk about enemy combatants in the open world. First off the AI is pretty bad....This is made up for by giving npcs god like aim. On top of that most npcs are just killed by being shot in the head. I would have loved to see more interesting types of npcs like the raider tanker. Sadly, there are very few enemies that can boast interesting mechanics. Also, the sheer lack of enemies is also sad. There's like what? 20? maybe 30 different enemies in the whole game? Simply not enough. This also makes the dungeon content EXTREMELY boring and repetitive seeing as its just killing the exact same mobs you kill in the open world, except they have more hp....

2. Any kind of challenge-
There is nothing and I mean NOTHING in this game that forces you to think or play strategically. There is no need for teamwork, no need to form a group, no need for ...well anything other than mindless blasting away. Overall if you're a hardcore player the only thing I could see keeping you interested for any amount of time WOULD be pvp, but even there we only have 2 maps! This game could have had raids, hard mode dungeons with a better chance at loot, dynamic events that required more than 1 person outside of ark falls. Heck, it could have even boasted some really competitive pvp with leaderboards, rankings and a few more maps. Still, we got none of that and THAT is why people are getting bored.

3. (and of course) Show tie ins-
Outside of the first episode missions, there are none. That is more upsetting if only because YOU BRAGGED ABOUT IT! It was a major selling point of this game. If there was one thing that could be considered fales about your advertising, its that. What I find sad is that when this game was coming out I thought it would be amazing and I was worried about the show. So far the show seems to be outshining the game in my eyes. I've truly been enjoying it and that's why I would LOVE to see more tie ins.

Of course all of this is just basic. They could have had an open pvp zone, or a zone with harder events that you needed to group up to enter. They could have done many interesting things to add more replay value other than the endless and very slow grinding of keys.

Well, I guess that's my rant. I want to see this game do well. I'm not trying to flame trion or the fanboys of the forum world. I'm simply trying to say that I guess I hoped for a lot more, and I still hope that one day this game becomes what is should have been from day one. I would love to see a city added, better social features, more interesting and intelligent npcs, more done with pvp and some incentive to play outside of grinding endless keys by clearing simple content for a hopelessly small chance to get something you may want to use.

I think people have a right to be a bit upset, and I see a lot of people rushing to Trions defence whenever they're called out. The truth is they did mess up here. They had an amazing opportunity to put out a truly unique game and world and they dropped the ball. For those of you still enjoying this game, I'm happy for you. I find myself trying to talk myself into logging in but I just see no reason. It's been a few weeks since I logged into the game for more than 20 minutes. As a season pass holder I hope to see new and interesting content down the line. If that happens I'll be right there ready to sing the praises of Trion and how they turned the game around but as of right now I'm very very disappointed.

Schwa
05-07-2013, 10:49 PM
You're right on the mark for the most part, the only part I can really give a tit-for-tat with is the auction house.

While it would be convenient, it might provide too much of a shortcut to the "best" stuff. I'd rather see reputation vendors worth a damn.

I'm still frustrated by the bug that the entire game is trivial once you can handle the last boss, but hopefully they've figured that bit out by now.

Archeus9
05-07-2013, 10:52 PM
You're right on the mark for the most part, the only part I can really give a tit-for-tat with is the auction house.

While it would be convenient, it might provide too much of a shortcut to the "best" stuff. I'd rather see reputation vendors worth a damn.

I'm still frustrated by the bug that the entire game is trivial once you can handle the last boss, but hopefully they've figured that bit out by now.

Agreed. Especially that last part. That's a horrible bug isnt it?

Cyripax NeoPrime
05-07-2013, 10:55 PM
I agree with alot of what your saying. And this post is one of the more sensible and explained of them. But I have to say this game is not and never was promoted as an mmorpg. Its a 3psMmo.

You nailed everythings else tho, good job, + 1

Gero
05-07-2013, 10:57 PM
You're right on the mark for the most part, the only part I can really give a tit-for-tat with is the auction house.

While it would be convenient, it might provide too much of a shortcut to the "best" stuff. I'd rather see reputation vendors worth a damn.

I'm still frustrated by the bug that the entire game is trivial once you can handle the last boss, but hopefully they've figured that bit out by now.
I can see your point.
Maybe it would be okay if legendaries couldn't be sold in the AH or something.

Other than that I would just say it adds another incentive to keep people playing. Making money to get the rare mods you want for your favorite gun or saving up script that gun you love so much. Looking for new and rare items to sell. As of right now if you find a good mod for a type of gun you don't use, or even a good gun that isn't really your style, it just gets scrapped for mats of vender trashed. I also find it odd that the in game currency for the most part is useless...

A couple weeks ago I was at almost 300k scrip so I just went to the buggy vendor and bought every vehicle he had.... just cuz....

Archeus9
05-07-2013, 11:00 PM
3. (and of course) Show tie ins-
Outside of the first episode missions, there are none. That is more upsetting if only because YOU BRAGGED ABOUT IT! It was a major selling point of this game. If there was one thing that could be considered fales about your advertising, its that. What I find sad is that when this game was coming out I thought it would be amazing and I was worried about the show. So far the show seems to be outshining the game in my eyes. I've truly been enjoying it and that's why I would LOVE to see more tie ins.


This. I think the show is fantastic. So is the lore. But yeah i agree with this heavily.

But to elaborate a bit. I want to see how WE impact the show. The impact going over to here is fine, but us to them is the meat and potatoes im waiting for.

Gero
05-08-2013, 07:41 AM
This. I think the show is fantastic. So is the lore. But yeah i agree with this heavily.

But to elaborate a bit. I want to see how WE impact the show. The impact going over to here is fine, but us to them is the meat and potatoes im waiting for.

Yeah I was really hoping for more of a crossover in both directions but at this point I would settle for a few more episode missions instead of silly pursuits.

Saraya
05-08-2013, 07:46 AM
The lack of social interaction as you call it, is about the only saving grace for this game.
If it was littered with the type of social rejects and socialites you'd want it to be, with the global chat type system you keep crying for, it'd make the already dismal game even less tolerable.

Everything that's multiplayer oriented in the game, has a system in place to support it.
The game was made for people to actually play it, not log in for ten minutes, do one mission then loiter around some player hub while half-afk watching Youtube videos, talking on Ventrilo and making Your Mom jokes in chat bubbles.

Get some friends if you want social interaction. No I mean some real ones..

Gero
05-08-2013, 07:55 AM
The lack of social interaction as you call it, is about the only saving grace for this game.
If it was littered with the type of social rejects and socialites you'd want it to be, with the global chat type system you keep crying for, it'd make the already dismal game even less tolerable.

Everything that's multiplayer oriented in the game, has a system in place to support it.
The game was made for people to actually play it, not log in for ten minutes, do one mission then loiter around some player hub while half-afk watching Youtube videos, talking on Ventrilo and making Your Mom jokes in chat bubbles.

Get some friends if you want social interaction. No I mean some real ones..


Well I actually bought the game with 2 friends. At this point none of us feel driven to play mostly due to lack of content and in game rewards for time spent. Also, as I said in my post the lack of challenging and engaging content in this game is a real turn off and leaves you with very little to do once you've cleared the main story.

That being said systems like the dungeon finder are fine for setting up multiplayer content, I just wish dungeons were a little harder or maybe had a harder setting that would make you actually want to communicate with the people you've been matched with. At the hardest content in the game is SO simple that its mind numbing. I have done every dungeon and I have yet to see a group wipe in any of them. Sure, one guy may go down and self revive now and then...but that's it. No team work, no challenge and really no need to ever speak to anyone. That is not a mmo.

Rasczak
05-08-2013, 07:58 AM
I have to agree with a vast majority of your post. Well said, and well done keeping it mature. +1.

Sull
05-08-2013, 08:04 AM
Well written. I agree with most of this. Fingers crossed that most of this will be addressed in patch 1.020 where Sledge states: "Patch 1.020 will bring a lot of items, fixes and major changes."

http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?62592-Patch-1.014-Discussion

I REALLY want to see the patch notes for 1.020 - even a working version of it to see what they are planning. I think it would ease people's minds to just know some stuff is being worked on.

jalbright1979
05-08-2013, 08:12 AM
You really hit the nail on the head. One thing that really drawed me to buying the game was the whole concept of building an amazing gun. Which I feel is a huge disappointment. All the guns seem to be extremely similiar. The synergys that everyone wants to use isn't even in the game. They level up way to fast. Example....recieved a legenedary infector ( which to be all I ever get) used it one day at it is already leveled up. Meaning it will be trashed if I want to finish pursuit. Would it hurt to maybe make it take a little longer to level up a gun so people can actually enjoy a good gun when they get one. Have legenedarys take even longer to level. I have even stopped useing attachments by the time you get a gun add some CRAPPY attachments kill a few enemies it's time to get rid of it. Maybe implement crafting in some small form so we could actually create guns around the way we play......Side note fix freight yard!!!!!! and explosions 101!!

ironhands
05-08-2013, 08:17 AM
You're right on the mark for the most part, the only part I can really give a tit-for-tat with is the auction house.

While it would be convenient, it might provide too much of a shortcut to the "best" stuff. I'd rather see reputation vendors worth a damn.

I'm still frustrated by the bug that the entire game is trivial once you can handle the last boss, but hopefully they've figured that bit out by now.

as always, agree with you completely. Difficult needs to be increased, and auction house is really pointless. I wanna shoot stuff, not worry about an economy, an MMO doesn't need an economy, it needs persistence and a reason to group up/be social.


To the OP:

Show tie-ins will increase as the series and game progress. You can't have the show interact with the game when it's only been live for a few weeks; there's no content to connect for the most part, but really, what were you expecting? How would you have done it? Bear in mind, we're only 4 episodes in, the whole thing is still pretty new and has plenty of room to grow.

HackSawz
05-08-2013, 08:34 AM
You made a lot of great points. I would definitely favor improving the social aspects of the game. I try to interact with other players but usually get run over or ignored. No worries as I enjoy the 3psmmo aspects of the game but your points are well taken.

+1

AZAG0TH
05-08-2013, 08:51 AM
I agree with OP. (in case anyone at Trion is keeping a tally) :)

Gero
05-08-2013, 08:53 AM
To the OP:

Show tie-ins will increase as the series and game progress. You can't have the show interact with the game when it's only been live for a few weeks; there's no content to connect for the most part, but really, what were you expecting? How would you have done it? Bear in mind, we're only 4 episodes in, the whole thing is still pretty new and has plenty of room to grow.


You are right in some regards but another thing to consider is that although its only been 4 episodes so far, a lot has happened in the series. I mean it has been 5 hours of programing, thats longer than 2 full length movies. Also, its 4 episodes over a month. Thats a long time to go with next to no tie ins when it was one of the main selling points of your games.

Things I would have liked to see-
*New episode missions. Even like 1 or 2 missions by now would have been nice.

*New enemy npcs with pursuit tie ins. The new hellbugs were probably the best thing we've seen so far but...really they were just reskins. I would have loved to see some Volge npcs and events after the pilot. That would have been really cool the the scattered remains of the army trying to find a new place to set up.

*Maybe even a new dungeon based on the events of an episode? That could have been very cool as well. Sure, this is something they clearly would have had to plan in advance seeing as you can't toss a whole instance out in a week. Still it would have been very cool to see it unlocked and corresponding with an episode.

There's just a few ideas. Clearly there are a lot of ways to tie the show to the game other than pursuits that are really hardly noticed.

r3dl4nce
05-08-2013, 09:01 AM
1. SOCIAL INTERACTION!!!!Join a clan/guild, play with friends, make friends in game, you can play together to help complete quests or pursuits or emergencies or daily contracts.



2. Rewarding time spent in game-Fun here is the major reward. Some people just don't want another equip-farm MMORPG (and Defiance is NOT a MMORPG)


There has been no new real content since launchNew emergencies, pursuits, new kind of mobs (elemental hellbugs). You are clearly wrong.


First off the AI is pretty bad....Mobs taking covers, hiding, dodging, moving to avoid being hit, rolling when set on fire, playing hide'n'seek with players. There are few MMOs with an AI so good. Usually in MMOs mobs stay still with a tank taking aggro and other players bashing them... very good AI... LOL


On top of that most npcs are just killed by being shot in the head.Go oneshot some Dark Matter... obviously you did not play a lot after the tutorial... Yes, the starting area mutants are easy mobs... It's called "starting area"...



There is nothing and I mean NOTHING in this game that forces you to think or play strategically.And still there are topics of people telling Nim fight is hard ....



Overall if you're a hardcore player You are clearly playing the wrong game... Go farm for month in some wow-clone, people in Defiance wanna have fun, not be forced to farm...


WOULD be pvp, but even there we only have 2 maps! You don't know anything about Shadow War uh? Played in open world... So you have nearly all the game map in which do PvP...



3. (and of course) Show tie ins-More will come in the second season, the first one has already be filmed. But every morning you can see in gme interesting tiein with the story shown in the episode of the TV show


They could have had an open pvp zone, Consensual open world PvP is called Shadow War.

Knitemaire
05-08-2013, 09:19 AM
Well I actually bought the game with 2 friends. At this point none of us feel driven to play mostly due to lack of content and in game rewards for time spent. Also, as I said in my post the lack of challenging and engaging content in this game is a real turn off and leaves you with very little to do once you've cleared the main story.

That being said systems like the dungeon finder are fine for setting up multiplayer content, I just wish dungeons were a little harder or maybe had a harder setting that would make you actually want to communicate with the people you've been matched with. At the hardest content in the game is SO simple that its mind numbing. I have done every dungeon and I have yet to see a group wipe in any of them. Sure, one guy may go down and self revive now and then...but that's it. No team work, no challenge and really no need to ever speak to anyone. That is not a mmo.

I also bought and promoted this game to several friends. Neither have the drive to play further since after you 100% the campaign and finish all side missions there's little point in continuing other than a pointless grind as above mentioned. This is definitely a very mature way of saying exactly how alot of us feel I believe and hopefully someone will take note and we can see some rewards that feel worthwhile from instances, PVP and hopefully raids in the near future.

ironhands
05-08-2013, 09:21 AM
*New enemy npcs with pursuit tie ins. The new hellbugs were probably the best thing we've seen so far but...really they were just reskins. I would have loved to see some Volge npcs and events after the pilot. That would have been really cool the the scattered remains of the army trying to find a new place to set up.

First DLC was supposed to be released the same day as the first episode, and is based around the Volge. We'd have that now, but it's held back to deal with bugs.

NIKOLA
05-08-2013, 09:32 AM
The lack of social interaction as you call it, is about the only saving grace for this game.
If it was littered with the type of social rejects and socialites you'd want it to be, with the global chat type system you keep crying for, it'd make the already dismal game even less tolerable.

Everything that's multiplayer oriented in the game, has a system in place to support it.
The game was made for people to actually play it, not log in for ten minutes, do one mission then loiter around some player hub while half-afk watching Youtube videos, talking on Ventrilo and making Your Mom jokes in chat bubbles.

Get some friends if you want social interaction. No I mean some real ones..

I like this view!!!

Gero
05-08-2013, 09:32 AM
Join a clan/guild, play with friends, make friends in game, you can play together to help complete quests or pursuits or emergencies or daily contracts.

Right, and then team up with them for what? What requires a group? What in the world would ever cause you to group up? I was simply saying there's no need for social interaction in this game at any point. There's really no encouragement for it either. Sure you CAN talk to people. Maybe as a console player I have it even worse, but most players really just seem to be doing their own thing.


Fun here is the major reward. Some people just don't want another equip-farm MMORPG (and Defiance is NOT a MMORPG)

Sure, and for the first few weeks of the game I was really having fun but the fact is there is NOTHING to work towards once you've finished the story line. You can grind pursuits and contracts, but for what? The very small rewards they give? Other than that what's so fun about killing the same 30 npcs over, and over, and over, and over? For what keys?


New emergencies, pursuits, new kind of mobs (elemental hellbugs). You are clearly wrong.

Pursuits are HARDLY content. Reskinned hellbugs they had in the beta are HARDLY content. 1 glitchy defence emergency is probably the largest content addition we've gotten so far.


Mobs taking covers, hiding, dodging, moving to avoid being hit, rolling when set on fire, playing hide'n'seek with players. There are few MMOs with an AI so good. Usually in MMOs mobs stay still with a tank taking aggro and other players bashing them... very good AI... LOL

Really? Sure sometimes the AI isn't SO awful, but overall it is. They react slowly and most of the time just stand in your stream of bullets and you lay them out. This is a TPSMMO and the AI NEEDS to be smarter than your average MMORPG.


Go oneshot some Dark Matter... obviously you did not play a lot after the tutorial... Yes, the starting area mutants are easy mobs... It's called "starting area"...
And still there are topics of people telling Nim fight is hard ....

I beat Nim on the 2nd try with no research done on the fight... I think some set up are just more equipped to handle him. Also, he's solo content and a single boss. I would hardly call 1 hard fight in a game a challenging experience over all. Darkmatter are only semi-hard because they have a silly amount of hp and god like aim. Even with that I've never had a problem clearing any event I've come across involving them.



You are clearly playing the wrong game... Go farm for month in some wow-clone, people in Defiance wanna have fun, not be forced to farm...

This game requires more farming than some korean MMOS I've played. 64 keys for a tier for locked box, and 0 chance of anything dropping in the world thats better than a blue. That 12.8 dungeons for a VERY VERY VERY small chance at getting something you actually want.....


You don't know anything about Shadow War uh? Played in open world... So you have nearly all the game map in which do PvP...

On the xbox its fairly buggy and has pretty low frame rate. I wouldn't really call Shadow wars competitive pvp seeing as the best weapon seems to be running people over with your runner.


More will come in the second season, the first one has already be filmed. But every morning you can see in gme interesting tiein with the story shown in the episode of the TV show

You say interesting...I say pretty lackluster. The tie ins are paper thin and really seem to have minimal effort put into them.

Consensual open world PvP is called Shadow War.

It was just an idea for something interesting. Shadow war is NOTHING like real open world pvp, and anyone who's played a game with it would agree. That being said it was just an idea for something else to add depth to the game.


Anywho, I'm happy you're still enjoying the game. Truly. The op was just my opinion and you're entitled to yours as well.

Lahlaos
05-08-2013, 09:42 AM
Multi Consular MMO, thats all im going to say, do you know how many FAILED MMO's have hit consoles and I mean FAILED! this game is a pioneer and it can take as long as it like, the game company Trion are excellent just look at RIFT, really tired of this impatience and stuff without seeing the base concept as being a difficult one, you all judge with no knowledge and no understanding of the platform they are dealing with.

Deal with it or ****.
And not necessarily judging the OP his point was valid, but irrelevant pending this. Everyhting is so negative, and negativity does not breed positive results

ironhands
05-08-2013, 09:44 AM
Multi Consular MMO, thats all im going to say, do you know how many FAILED MMO's have hit consoles and I mean FAILED! this game is a pioneer and it can take as long as it like, the game company Trion are excellent just look at RIFT, really tired of this impatience and stuff without seeing the base concept as being a difficult one, you all judge with no knowledge and no understanding of the platform they are dealing with.

Deal with it or ****.
And not necessarily judging the OP his point was valid, but irrelevant pending this. Everyhting is so negative, and negativity does not breed positive results

if there isn't some negativity, you can't look at something objectively. constructive negativity is the key

mcwjimbo
05-08-2013, 09:48 AM
.......... and it can take as long as it like.............

No, they can't. This is not years ago when there was less competition. There are far more gamming companies now and far more launches of other products coming up. The grace periods from a launch are thus much shortened as compared to the past

Also...especially since trion was focusing on selling their gamming engine and servers as vs making games ....sinking their time and resources into that.......and the launch of defiance has sunk that ship fast. If they wish to continue along that path of being a company that sells their engine and servers as vs making games then they have to move even more quickly.

Lahlaos
05-08-2013, 09:52 AM
if there isn't some negativity, you can't look at something objectively. constructive negativity is the key

Well you see that is true, but constructive negativity isnt often debated its mostly slating and hating. They know the problems, they know how to make it better we should (as loyal gamers) be patient for after all it is a virtue. If people cant wait then they shouldnt be there, ANYONE with knowledge of MMO knows the problems at launch this game is still fresh, just over a month old perhaps and they been updating, they have done what they can, and WILL catch up...

However....negativity is contagious

MrGunn2001
05-08-2013, 09:55 AM
Gero:

Your points are smart, articulate, and well argued. I believe you are correct, one of the biggest misses is the shallow social interaction in the game. I have completed the main missions and nearly 80 percent of the side missions alone, I have had very little social interaction through the game, even though I am a member of a clan. The area and group chat features are buggy, I don't see any Law Keepers performing troll control for language, disruptive behavior, and screechy Mics. Trion really needs to step up to the plate.

I also agree the game needs to do a better job of endearing one to the world. Right now 99% of all of the missions are combat related, fight the monster and take what they have, fend off the monsters and press down key to light circle. Arkfalls are competitive grinds. There needs to be more variety of missions, stealth, theft, mystery solving etc. NPCs need to be more character driven and less like cardboard cut outs. More everything, mystery, puzzles, politics need to be added to the game. Events like reducing the number of Hell Bugs or raiders etc should have in game consequences.

I am reserving judgement until the next DLC, and though I enjoy the game, it is more of a past time like solitaire, than an obsession like Mass Effect 3, Fall Out 3, or Skyrim.

Good post!

thatoneguy
05-08-2013, 10:11 AM
Finally a well thought out post! I understand the complaint about new content to some extent, and the social aspect of the game is kinda borked. All of the Following are my opinions.

Grouping in defiance is more about getting together with a friend or three to blast bad guys, and for some (including myself) That is more than enough.

I personally enjoy the fact that I dont have to go find certain gear just so I can go through a dungeon so I can get certain gear so I can go through a dungeon so I can get certain gear so I can....

Regarding the difficulty, I think its more of a relative thing. For some people it is challenging and the mobs do a good job of either zerging or flanking you. For some people its super easy because they essentially overpower the A.I. with "unconventional" tactics. Or they are awesome shots or what have you.

I think people are grinding for the wrong reasons, if you know that the gun you get from the lock box likely wont be better than what you have why grind? Why not just let the keys accumulate from enjoying the game?

Again yours was a well written post, and I appreciate you taking the time to lay out some real issues and give example rather than the normal "OMGTHISGAMESUCKSWTFBBQBLAHBLAHBLAH"

MrGunn2001
05-08-2013, 10:32 AM
I personally enjoy the fact that I dont have to go find certain gear just so I can go through a dungeon so I can get certain gear so I can go through a dungeon so I can get certain gear so I can....

Regarding the difficulty, I think its more of a relative thing. For some people it is challenging and the mobs do a good job of either zerging or flanking you. For some people its super easy because they essentially overpower the A.I. with "unconventional" tactics. Or they are awesome shots or what have you.

Thatoneguy

I liked your comments. You are right about difficulty, a friend of mine on-line who is a pretty good FPS player is having trouble with Nim. Nim was a tough fight, took me multiple tries to complete, mostly due to not knowing about the ammo reloader boxes the first time through. Some of the side missions and road side fights can be very tough if you are going through solo.

nosworc
05-08-2013, 10:43 AM
+1 Great post Op, i pretty much agree with everything you have stated.

squidgod2000
05-08-2013, 10:56 AM
You're right on the mark for the most part, the only part I can really give a tit-for-tat with is the auction house.

While it would be convenient, it might provide too much of a shortcut to the "best" stuff. I'd rather see reputation vendors worth a damn.

Game could benefit from an AH, but they'd have to remove vendor specials (which are lame to begin with) and redo their loot mechanics. Obviously some items would be much more valuable, but that's more an aspect of bad weapon/shield/grenade balance than anything else. Could people buy exactly what they want? Sure, but they'd have to work to get the scrip to afford it (since what they want if likely what everyone else wants). It could also create a secondary market for ark salvage--if it were made tradeable--as players would be more likely to sell their drops than salvage them.

Having said that, I don't see Trion adding an AH or doing anything serious to make this more of an MMO and less of a single-player with other people around. It is what it is.

ironhands
05-08-2013, 11:02 AM
Game could benefit from an AH, but they'd have to remove vendor specials (which are lame to begin with) and redo their loot mechanics. Obviously some items would be much more valuable, but that's more an aspect of bad weapon/shield/grenade balance than anything else. Could people buy exactly what they want? Sure, but they'd have to work to get the scrip to afford it (since what they want if likely what everyone else wants). It could also create a secondary market for ark salvage--if it were made tradeable--as players would be more likely to sell their drops than salvage them.

Having said that, I don't see Trion adding an AH or doing anything serious to make this more of an MMO and less of a single-player with other people around. It is what it is.

could accomplish the same end result by increasing the vendors items. I'm not sure why people WANT an auction house.. any scrip they make wouldn't really be worth anything, the only real use would be to find uncommons for weapon training. Any legendaries would either a) not be worth the cost compared to the upgrade or b) you'd have already found what you want while grinding up the cash.

Gero
05-08-2013, 12:02 PM
Finally a well thought out post! I understand the complaint about new content to some extent, and the social aspect of the game is kinda borked. All of the Following are my opinions.

Grouping in defiance is more about getting together with a friend or three to blast bad guys, and for some (including myself) That is more than enough.

I personally enjoy the fact that I dont have to go find certain gear just so I can go through a dungeon so I can get certain gear so I can go through a dungeon so I can get certain gear so I can....

Regarding the difficulty, I think its more of a relative thing. For some people it is challenging and the mobs do a good job of either zerging or flanking you. For some people its super easy because they essentially overpower the A.I. with "unconventional" tactics. Or they are awesome shots or what have you.

I think people are grinding for the wrong reasons, if you know that the gun you get from the lock box likely wont be better than what you have why grind? Why not just let the keys accumulate from enjoying the game?

Again yours was a well written post, and I appreciate you taking the time to lay out some real issues and give example rather than the normal "OMGTHISGAMESUCKSWTFBBQBLAHBLAHBLAH"


First off thanks =D

Secondly I don't want this game to become the endless gear treadmill that wow is....ever. That is not really what I'm asking for with more difficult content. I just want gameplay that requires thought and teamwork. More difficult dungeons, or raids, should be more SKILL based rather than "You need to have item level XXX to join". Something that makes you consider your load out and your teammates load outs and weapons. Also, these hard mode dungeons or raids could have unique bosses, mobs, pursuits, titles, outfit rewards, vehicles, a little higher chance for rare equipment rewards and of course...more keys.

With the gear system being what it is, these harder settings and modes would in no way be REQUIRED for someone who doesn't want to do them. People should be able to play how they want. That being said the current game leaves any hardcore gamer wanting.

As far as grinding goes you are right, a rare weapon isn't in anyway required or even much better than the more common types of the same weapon, but still people like to feel like they're advancing and bettering their toon. It's one of the major draws of a mmo. This game really lacks that all around. Still, I would like the game to focus on making your toon the best for YOUR playstyle, more than doing more dps or more hp like in other mmos. Rewards for clearing content make people feel like they're working towards making their toon the best it can be FOR THEM even if it's not necessarily stronger in numerical sense.

N3gativeCr33p
05-08-2013, 12:05 PM
I'm not sure why people WANT an auction house..

I agree. For example, the DCUO auction house has done more damage to the game's economy than actually help it.

ironhands
05-08-2013, 12:08 PM
I agree. For example, the DCUO auction house has done more damage to the game's economy than actually help it.

oh there's a lot of negatives, I had a big thread on the negatives, but even if you remove all of the negatives, what positive purpose would it serve, beyond facilitating trades in a more organized fashion, or making it easier to find weapons to level up with? Wouldn't even need to trade if a vendor was setup with every common item, like the AH would :P I can only see an AH being useful when there are player crafted items or consumables to sell

N3gativeCr33p
05-08-2013, 12:24 PM
I can only see an AH being useful when there are player crafted items or consumables to sell

Sounds like an interesting concept you have there.

The numb
05-08-2013, 12:33 PM
Lack of content and the bugs will kill the game the sooner the better I give 3 months at the most. The oh..its mmo and its ok to be buggy at launch excuse was ok 10 years ago, when maybe 1 worth attention game was coming out every few months but now its just plain stupid so many good titles just around the corner , by the time they make this game playable there will be no one to play with.

alred
05-08-2013, 12:34 PM
I'm not a fan of AH. Reason being you get people that will farm the "best" stuff, then place it in the AH. Then you have an AH manipulator that will buy the items, then place them ack into the AH at 5 times their original price. Which forces players either to cheat to get the money for the item "Buy "your game's currency here cheap"". I've played at least 3 games that had a thriving outside the game market for it's currency. In the game, the economy was a shambles, because of players going to outside sources to get game currency.

And, I'm willing to bet, it will happen in Defiance as well.

I'd like to see "NPC" vendors that people could hire to sell items. Then a flea market where said vendors could be placed. It would at least give an illusion of a town, that way.
But it too, wont prevent 3rd party sources from selling scrip. I just checked, and there are 3rd party sites selling scrip.
So expect what little economy is in the game to get ruined, unless Trion has blocks in place to prevent that from happening.

N3gativeCr33p
05-08-2013, 01:09 PM
Lack of content and the bugs will kill the game the sooner the better I give 3 months at the most.

Funny... but I used to hear the very same thing about DCUO, now well over 2 years ago.

Mindfix
05-08-2013, 01:32 PM
Funny... but I used to hear the very same thing about DCUO, now well over 2 years ago.

Don't forget content is still being added!

meremortal
05-08-2013, 04:34 PM
...........

Covington
05-08-2013, 04:39 PM
I'm disappointed, and I'm allowed to be.

Hell yah! Anyone who spent MONEY on this is allowed a VOICE! They seem to forget that.

meremortal
05-08-2013, 04:40 PM
You're right on the mark for the most part, the only part I can really give a tit-for-tat with is the auction house.

While it would be convenient, it might provide too much of a shortcut to the "best" stuff. I'd rather see reputation vendors worth a damn.

I'm still frustrated by the bug that the entire game is trivial once you can handle the last boss, but hopefully they've figured that bit out by now.


Ok what about the "shortcut" of getting boosts,weapons or whatever with real money, that is out of balance in the first place.

I agree with a store but to the point you can be a better player just spending a few hundreds for a game like this...

With no chance to get such boosts or items through playing...

Booshy
05-08-2013, 04:50 PM
Join a clan/guild, play with friends, make friends in game, you can play together to help complete quests or pursuits or emergencies or daily contracts.


Fun here is the major reward. Some people just don't want another equip-farm MMORPG (and Defiance is NOT a MMORPG)

New emergencies, pursuits, new kind of mobs (elemental hellbugs). You are clearly wrong.

Mobs taking covers, hiding, dodging, moving to avoid being hit, rolling when set on fire, playing hide'n'seek with players. There are few MMOs with an AI so good. Usually in MMOs mobs stay still with a tank taking aggro and other players bashing them... very good AI... LOL

Go oneshot some Dark Matter... obviously you did not play a lot after the tutorial... Yes, the starting area mutants are easy mobs... It's called "starting area"...


And still there are topics of people telling Nim fight is hard ....


You are clearly playing the wrong game... Go farm for month in some wow-clone, people in Defiance wanna have fun, not be forced to farm...

You don't know anything about Shadow War uh? Played in open world... So you have nearly all the game map in which do PvP...


More will come in the second season, the first one has already be filmed. But every morning you can see in gme interesting tiein with the story shown in the episode of the TV show

Consensual open world PvP is called Shadow War.

I wish I had a fanboi award to give you for this post. Literally some sort of ridiculous counter or excuse to every single well written and on the mark point the OP made.

meremortal
05-08-2013, 05:04 PM
I've seen arguments for and against this game. I want to make it clear that this is neither. I did very much enjoy this game for the first few weeks it was out. I love the concept and the world trion and syfy has created, but I like many other find the game lacking in pretty much every feature. Now, many people are also still enjoying the game, and that's good for them. That doesn't mean that we were handed a good, or complete product.

Now, I say I'm not against the game because I still have hope and want to see it do well, but I do feel like we were handed a very unfinished product. I say very because even if you're still enjoying the game its clearly lacking in basic MMO features, and thats not even touching on the tons of bugs and glitches that are present in the game.

Touching on a few MAJOR things that are lacking in this 'mmo'-

1. SOCIAL INTERACTION!!!!
How trion seemed to skip over the most basic and most important aspect of a MMO is beyond me. There's literally very little to no interaction with other players in the game in any meaningful way. There's no need, and no reward for grouping up. There is no major city or hub for players to interact and the chat system is just outright bad. It makes this 'mmo' feel like a subpar single player game most of the time.

2. Rewarding time spent in game-
Once again this is a major draw to a mmo is some sense of gain. When you complete content, you want to be rewarded for the time spent. Defiance doesn't have that at all.
Finish a dungeon? 5 keys
Finish a round of pvp? 1 key
Do a dynamic event? 0 keys

The locked box system is just outright awful and a pretty clear attempt to get people to use the cash store. The chances of getting anything worthwhile are EXTREMELY low. Then the chance that it would be a weapon type that you have or are leveling is even lower. At almost 2k ego I've gotten 2 legendaries. A double barrel shotty and a shield that was ultimately bad for my play style. So over all I have yet to see a single rare item worth using. Dungeons should have a chance to drop rare loot, pvp and events should be more rewarding. No one wants to run 13 dungeons for a tier 4 locked box and then end up with 2 blues and 2 greens that they just junk.

3. A Social Economy-
When was the last time you saw a mmo come out with no form of an auction house?! How did this even happen? Of course the question comes to mind 'Was this another attempt to force us into the cash shop?'

I would have to guess yes, because I could see no other reason to leave out something so basic. Also, making and spending money in a mmo is one of the major time killers. High level mods, guns and equipment would be desirable even if they didn't fit your playstyle because they would be major cash cows! Still, this is once again a draw that the game SHOULD have but doesn't.


Of course there is more but I would say those are the most major and most basic things this game is lacking for claiming to be a MMORPG. Despite what trion or anyone else says now that is how the game was marketed. So now we go on to my next point and where most of my disappointment truly comes in. The marketing. This game was build up to be AMAZING! Calming features, and show tie ins that well, just aren't there. I see a lot of folks crying false advertisement, I would simply call it 'over embellishment to an extreme'.

The tie ins are lackluster and truly lazy. There has been no new real content since launch and if anything we've LOST content with 1 of the pvp maps being pulled pretty much since day one. That wouldn't be so bad IF this game had a lot of content at launch. Borderlands 2 came out of the box with much more content than this game, and that wasn't even a mmo.

Content this game is lacking (on top of the basic things I metioned before)

1. NPC's-
As a FPS this game is clearly going to lose some of the levels of complexity some other MMORPGS boast. There's only so much you can do with 2 guns and a ego button. That being said the interesting features of combat should have been held in how to handle npcs. The game fall short in every regard when we talk about enemy combatants in the open world. First off the AI is pretty bad....This is made up for by giving npcs god like aim. On top of that most npcs are just killed by being shot in the head. I would have loved to see more interesting types of npcs like the raider tanker. Sadly, there are very few enemies that can boast interesting mechanics. Also, the sheer lack of enemies is also sad. There's like what? 20? maybe 30 different enemies in the whole game? Simply not enough. This also makes the dungeon content EXTREMELY boring and repetitive seeing as its just killing the exact same mobs you kill in the open world, except they have more hp....

2. Any kind of challenge-
There is nothing and I mean NOTHING in this game that forces you to think or play strategically. There is no need for teamwork, no need to form a group, no need for ...well anything other than mindless blasting away. Overall if you're a hardcore player the only thing I could see keeping you interested for any amount of time WOULD be pvp, but even there we only have 2 maps! This game could have had raids, hard mode dungeons with a better chance at loot, dynamic events that required more than 1 person outside of ark falls. Heck, it could have even boasted some really competitive pvp with leaderboards, rankings and a few more maps. Still, we got none of that and THAT is why people are getting bored.

3. (and of course) Show tie ins-
Outside of the first episode missions, there are none. That is more upsetting if only because YOU BRAGGED ABOUT IT! It was a major selling point of this game. If there was one thing that could be considered fales about your advertising, its that. What I find sad is that when this game was coming out I thought it would be amazing and I was worried about the show. So far the show seems to be outshining the game in my eyes. I've truly been enjoying it and that's why I would LOVE to see more tie ins.

Of course all of this is just basic. They could have had an open pvp zone, or a zone with harder events that you needed to group up to enter. They could have done many interesting things to add more replay value other than the endless and very slow grinding of keys.

Well, I guess that's my rant. I want to see this game do well. I'm not trying to flame trion or the fanboys of the forum world. I'm simply trying to say that I guess I hoped for a lot more, and I still hope that one day this game becomes what is should have been from day one. I would love to see a city added, better social features, more interesting and intelligent npcs, more done with pvp and some incentive to play outside of grinding endless keys by clearing simple content for a hopelessly small chance to get something you may want to use.

I think people have a right to be a bit upset, and I see a lot of people rushing to Trions defence whenever they're called out. The truth is they did mess up here. They had an amazing opportunity to put out a truly unique game and world and they dropped the ball. For those of you still enjoying this game, I'm happy for you. I find myself trying to talk myself into logging in but I just see no reason. It's been a few weeks since I logged into the game for more than 20 minutes. As a season pass holder I hope to see new and interesting content down the line. If that happens I'll be right there ready to sing the praises of Trion and how they turned the game around but as of right now I'm very very disappointed.


I agree with all of it, adding that the game is still so buggy that i constantly lost items and progressions, like getting a tier 2 box to get 1 single item even though i had enough space..

Swampster
05-08-2013, 05:30 PM
I've been playing Defiance since January in some shape of form, and I was pretty sceptical about the game for a while going through Alpha, for various reasons I can't really discuss here due to NDA's etc.. However the game grew on me, and having played Rift I did have some faith in Trion's ability and I could see that the game did have huge potential!

So sometime back in March I decided to bite the bullet so to speak, and persuaded a family member to buy me the Ultimate Edition, for a birthday treat :)

This meant getting my birthday present a bit early as the game launched sometime prior to my birthday.. but I figured, not to worry with all the forthcoming DLC (included with the UE), the show and the growth of the Defiance 'universe' I'd be happily playing this game through the whole of this year at the very least!

What I didn't expect is to be pretty much exhausted with the game, and to have completely lost any faith and goodwill that I had for Trion by the time my birthday arrived.

So today I'm a year older, and sadly I'm at a point of wondering whether I continue to give Trion the benefit of the doubt.. or give it up completely; as on current form I'm not convinced by their ability to deliver, going back to January I've seen little to convince me otherwise! Yes they have fixed one or two truly game breaking bugs in that time as anyone in Alpha will attest, but little of substance has changed in the game aside from things being removed because they're broken. This is further confounded by what appears to be Trion stumbling from one bad patch to another since launch, all while sneaking in nerfs and making incoherent changes to the game which seem (in my opinion at least) primarily designed to suck out any sense of fun.

I really feel strongly about wanting this game to succeed, as not only do I not want my family member's gesture of a present to be wasted.. but the amount of time I invested in the game Alpha reporting bugs, and testing things to destruction means rightly or wrongly I do feel I have some vested interest in seeing it succeed! Oh and yes I'm REALLY enjoying the tv show!

No doubt this post will be jumped all over by some.. who'll probably call into question my legitimacy as a child, my education, grammar, and general right to breathe, but consider this; doing so will most likely push me further away from the game, which as an action on it's own is pretty insignificant admittedly! And why should you care anyway!? However keep driving people away who have legitimate concerns.. the game will soon become as a ghost town, deserted!

TL;DR - yeah I'm disappointed too! Happy Birthday to meeeee, Happy Birthday to meeeee, hap... oh buggerit flame away! :rolleyes:

Gero
05-08-2013, 07:17 PM
TL;DR - yeah I'm disappointed too! Happy Birthday to meeeee, Happy Birthday to meeeee, hap... oh buggerit flame away! :rolleyes:


I didn't quote all of that just because it was long, but I feel a lot of people are in the same boat, slowly losing faith in Trion. Sure, if you want to put out a game that over all isn't complete in a lot of ways that's one thing, but then you're going to have to fix bugs and add content VERY quickly after release. That just isn't something I've seen. I'm still hopeful. I want to see the game do well as well. I want to see them turn it around and that is the overall point of the OP.

Schwa
05-08-2013, 07:18 PM
Ok what about the "shortcut" of getting boosts,weapons or whatever with real money, that is out of balance in the first place.

I agree with a store but to the point you can be a better player just spending a few hundreds for a game like this...

With no chance to get such boosts or items through playing...

That's how they earn their money. It's a subscription game, except it's not.

Thankfully, it's gentle enough to where this is not a pay-to-win title.

Gero
05-09-2013, 12:08 AM
Also pointing out the most recent update added nothing to the game but increased vehicle prices, and a nerf to mine 99, as it no longer gives key codes......

It's things like this that leave me questioning Trions priorities. It seems like the biggest changes come as nerfs to a players ability to gather keycodes in game. It seems like a fairly sad attempt to get people to use the cash store...

Sarin
05-09-2013, 12:52 AM
Fully agree with OP.

I'm a massive advocate of open PvP. Getting the drop on someone better equipped than you and winning is satisfying, PvP ATM is just very "meh".

I could write a long list of things I'd expect from this game but right now it looks very unlikely that there will be much added.

After Planetside 2 I don't really have much faith in games fulfilling their advertised promises, worse still when the "fans" of the game actually forget what was promised only to have them release paid DLC which adds in what was originally promised then the "fans" think it's the best thing ever and praise the devs for coming up with it.

Le sigh, I'm so very jaded these days.

Sogreth
05-09-2013, 01:03 AM
i wanna add this, hope they add more loots on arkfall events meaning not only shield and grenades. we all want weapons! im not bragging but almost 60% of the time (from the start of a arkfall) i get the 1st place. ive gotten tons of purple shields and grenades some ends up on the vendor. it gives me decent script but i dont see that currency in this game is more valuable than tier boxes. they should take out green stuff on tier 4 boxes too. Seriously 64 keycodes and you still get greens in tier 4 boxes? and what the heck is wrong with vendors they sell (sometimes) same thing on every vendor i visit.

Killakush
05-09-2013, 01:22 AM
I agree with most of the OP even tho I'm still having fun in the game,maybe thats because I accept it for what it is at the moment a "pick up and put down game" and I'm in no rush to blaze thru content.I have played Rift since launch so I know Trion know how to make an mmo.
As for an AH I believe that would ruin the game maybe something like a trade house where someone can trade a legendary LMG that they dont use for a legendary shotty that they do.
All in all I'd say just be patient and wait and see how the game improve over time

r3dl4nce
05-09-2013, 01:24 AM
Literally some sort of ridiculous counter or excuse to every single well written and on the mark point the OP made.Just because YOU or the OP do not like some features, that does not mean that EVERYONE must not like those features. I play the game when and how much I like, I have fun when I play, I am grateful to Trion because they made Defiance totally skill based and not the usual gear-grind MMO forcing you to farm countless instances only to get the item to make your character more powerful, I like the Shadow War concept (consensual PvP in open world, I can do PvP when I want, not when other players force me to do it), I think the mob AI is superior to the one seen in other MMOs. So yes, I'm playing Defiance and having fun, why should I not say this? Only the whiners are allowed to express their negative feeling about the game?

wrdixey
05-09-2013, 01:24 AM
I'm just gonna say that this is the same company who put out Rift and that is a stellar mmo. Trion knows how to develop great games. I think (hope) this game will be as good in time, it is still early.

Archeus9
05-09-2013, 01:31 AM
First DLC was supposed to be released the same day as the first episode, and is based around the Volge. We'd have that now, but it's held back to deal with bugs.

Don't you mean...

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view5/2084696/dr-evil-pinky-o.gif

.. Hellbugs?

Archeus9
05-09-2013, 01:38 AM
Fully agree with OP.

I'm a massive advocate of open PvP. Getting the drop on someone better equipped than you and winning is satisfying, PvP ATM is just very "meh".

I could write a long list of things I'd expect from this game but right now it looks very unlikely that there will be much added.

After Planetside 2 I don't really have much faith in games fulfilling their advertised promises, worse still when the "fans" of the game actually forget what was promised only to have them release paid DLC which adds in what was originally promised then the "fans" think it's the best thing ever and praise the devs for coming up with it.

Le sigh, I'm so very jaded these days.

Preaching to the choir man.

It's why im waiting on this magnificent piece of work: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/nerdkingdom/tug-1

I actually played ps2 as well, felt very samey and oay to win in some cases. But that's my opinion.

As for this game. As rough as i have been in bashign the game im still slightly hopeful that they will do a 180. I mean they are trion after all. I liked Rift. So.. dunno... we'll see..

Meh.. there goes my jaded side as well :/

mcwjimbo
05-09-2013, 08:28 AM
I'm just gonna say that this is the same company who put out Rift and that is a stellar mmo. Trion knows how to develop great games. I think (hope) this game will be as good in time, it is still early.

-different dev team from rift dev team while a large chunk of rift dev team were fired in december and the lead rift guy left Trion a while ago

- companies no longer have months post launch to make their mark. There are way too many more companies with way too many launches = shorter and shorter grace periods post launch to get something working & profitable

- 1st impressions are everything & all the ratings and this 1st month post launch have hurt defiance's chances & hurt Trion.

meremortal
05-09-2013, 09:09 AM
I really want to enjoy the game but its being 5 times a get lock boxes and synergy mods and they didn't deliver a single item, and some progressions lost by the grace of don't know what.

I can't tell that is amusing because it really bothers me.

Soobydoo
05-09-2013, 09:20 AM
1. SOCIAL INTERACTION!!!!
How trion seemed to skip over the most basic and most important aspect of a MMO is beyond me. There's literally very little to no interaction with other players in the game in any meaningful way. There's no need, and no reward for grouping up. There is no major city or hub for players to interact and the chat system is just outright bad. It makes this 'mmo' feel like a subpar single player game most of the time.

I agree with pretty much everything and especially this^

Honestly, most of the time I've found it's easier to run solo because:

1) hassle to coordinate with the wonky chat system
2) the leader will join matchmaking and someone will be at a vendor and hit leave by accident
3) it won't let you join the phase
4) when it lets you join the phase it puts you halfway across the map.
5) Group member is forced singleplayer

and other reasons. It turns grouping, a natural part of multiplayer, into a stressful ordeal.

Lahlaos
05-09-2013, 09:28 AM
I'm just gonna say that this is the same company who put out Rift and that is a stellar mmo. Trion knows how to develop great games. I think (hope) this game will be as good in time, it is still early.

Exactly:) :cool:

Spaisekraft
05-09-2013, 10:18 AM
Join a clan/guild, play with friends, make friends in game, you can play together to help complete quests or pursuits or emergencies or daily contracts.

Ah, no. I was running one of the biggest PC clans in Defiance, and over the last few weeks almost everyone has migrated to new games. There was nothing to do as a clan. All it gave us was people to chat with while we play, but that only lasts so long when there's nothing to do in-game together.



Fun here is the major reward. Some people just don't want another equip-farm MMORPG (and Defiance is NOT a MMORPG)

If people are able to have fun with this game by week 3 of playing, well kudos to them. Most of us have higher standards.



New emergencies, pursuits, new kind of mobs (elemental hellbugs). You are clearly wrong.

Please don't tell me you're using what is essentially dailies, re-skinned mobs, and achievements as an example of new content. That's filler side crap that's supposed to occupy your time when you're not dealing with real content.



Mobs taking covers, hiding, dodging, moving to avoid being hit, rolling when set on fire, playing hide'n'seek with players. There are few MMOs with an AI so good. Usually in MMOs mobs stay still with a tank taking aggro and other players bashing them... very good AI... LOL

The AI is okay sometimes, but what you describe is the norm for this kind of game. As far as shooters go the AI is very weak. You cannot compare the AI to the AI in tab target spell casting MMOs.



Go oneshot some Dark Matter... obviously you did not play a lot after the tutorial... Yes, the starting area mutants are easy mobs... It's called "starting area"...

Even the Dark Matter are not THAT big of a challenge. They're not push overs but they're not exactly scary. All Trion did was increase the damage they do, they still have the dull AI and god-like accuracy and x-ray vision. That's like when everyone says the difficulty in Dark Souls is good. It's only difficult because of horrible controls, and that's not good difficulty.



And still there are topics of people telling Nim fight is hard ....


You are clearly playing the wrong game... Go farm for month in some wow-clone, people in Defiance wanna have fun, not be forced to farm...

Yet the primary activity in this game is farming. Like way more mindless grinding than I've seen in most MMOs. Running Mine99 non-stop all day to farm keys, etc. What happened when they nerfed the rewards in Mine99? People threw fits. People want to farm keys with the least resistance.



You don't know anything about Shadow War uh? Played in open world... So you have nearly all the game map in which do PvP...


More will come in the second season, the first one has already be filmed. But every morning you can see in gme interesting tiein with the story shown in the episode of the TV show

Consensual open world PvP is called Shadow War.

Shadow War has potential to be cool, but PVP in this game is SO bad. Like the overwhelming consensus within my community has been that PVP in Defiance is awful. Call us carebears or whatever, but we have a lot of people that love PVP and absolutely cannot stand the PVP in Defiance.

Look we all spent money on this game, some of us spent a LOT of money. I understand that some people need to fervently defend the game to justify their commitment, but you're only hurting the game by glossing over the problems. That was a HUGE problem in Tabula Rasa. The fanboys just obliterated anyone that tried to bring up any flaws in the game and the game suffered for it (amongst other things.)

IhateEveryone
05-09-2013, 10:34 AM
this game is bad and trion should feel bad.

Wolfrick_Adar
05-09-2013, 10:41 AM
The only difference between this and the hundreds of threads like it is that the OP was respectful.

But I fail to see the point of these threads. All this has already been said. The devs have already acknowledged these areas need work. At this point, you can only assume one of two things.

(1) The Devs are working on these issues but the fixes aren't as simple as everyone seems to believe.
(2) The Devs don't care and are using our cash to light cigars in Trion's newly tricked out break room.

Either way, threads like this serve no purpose except to whine...

Gero
05-09-2013, 10:58 AM
The only difference between this and the hundreds of threads like it is that the OP was respectful.

But I fail to see the point of these threads. All this has already been said. The devs have already acknowledged these areas need work. At this point, you can only assume one of two things.

(1) The Devs are working on these issues but the fixes aren't as simple as everyone seems to believe.
(2) The Devs don't care and are using our cash to light cigars in Trion's newly tricked out break room.

Either way, threads like this serve no purpose except to whine...

I would disagree. Showing Trion what I, and some others think is lacking in the game gives direction, and to be honest it seems to be something they're lacking with this game. I didn't post this so much to whine, but to show some of the very basic things the game is lacking. I really want to see the game turn it around because I LOVE the premise.

My concern is the same as a few other posters, the longer they take to fix these things and add new content, the more people leave. Every time people leave an mmo its harder to get them to come back. Also, it becomes harder and harder to get new people to give the game a chance as more and more bad opinions of the game are formed. At some point even if they turn it around the community will be so small that it won't make a difference. I really don't want it to get to that point.

Orge Lambart
05-09-2013, 11:00 AM
You're right on the mark for the most part, the only part I can really give a tit-for-tat with is the auction house.

While it would be convenient, it might provide too much of a shortcut to the "best" stuff. I'd rather see reputation vendors worth a damn.

I'm still frustrated by the bug that the entire game is trivial once you can handle the last boss, but hopefully they've figured that bit out by now.

That would have a point, you know, if this game had best weapons, it doesn't. Everything is pretty equal all things considered.

RobbieTheRabbit
05-09-2013, 11:11 AM
I agree with the OP.. i be tryin to force myself to play this game.. and i just dont have it in me no more..

theres soo many glitches,bugs. and no major fixes.. like they just added more hellbugs breeds like thats not gonna help.. FIX the issues that we come across alot,

like the driving in a open road then BAM A DAMN WALL APPEAR.
no info on the maps,
your group members cant see you because you are still loading after 3 mins,
your car disappears on thier screen.
yes the soical on there is horrible because the chat is soo confusing every mmo like game i played ppl soicalize..

UGGGGH too much soo annoying. but they rather give us more hellbug breeds?! Ima just wait it off till a major update or for some odd reason my homies wanna get on defiance then ill get on.. cause damn.. im disappointed.

IhateEveryone
05-09-2013, 11:12 AM
The only difference between this and the hundreds of threads like it is that the OP was respectful.

But I fail to see the point of these threads. All this has already been said. The devs have already acknowledged these areas need work. At this point, you can only assume one of two things.

(1) The Devs are working on these issues but the fixes aren't as simple as everyone seems to believe.
(2) The Devs don't care and are using our cash to light cigars in Trion's newly tricked out break room.

Either way, threads like this serve no purpose except to whine...

I fail to see the reason why you'd respond then. Can you come down off your soap box so we could use it? If you're so happy with this game, why take the time to read OP's post? OH because you have to throw in your 2 cents, claim that you're so much better, call us whiners, and I hate you.

ironhands
05-09-2013, 11:15 AM
theres soo many glitches,bugs. and no major fixes.. like they just added more hellbugs breeds like thats not gonna help.. FIX the issues that we come across alot,

like the driving in a open road then BAM A DAMN WALL APPEAR.
your group members cant see you because you are still loading after 3 mins,
your car disappears on thier screen.

that's lag, not bugs

ArcHunterXxPattakxX
05-09-2013, 11:38 AM
Has anyone else not receiving their tier lockbox items during purchase? Well it has happened to me for the third time. The first two they reimbursed my lockbox but today I didn't get a response when I explained thoroughly what had happened instead my ticket was just closed. I want to love this game so much but I have never dealt with so much. Who likes writing customer support for every time something goes wrong with a stupid lengthy explanation? I'm getting sick of it

Annihilation
05-09-2013, 11:39 AM
I agree with alot of what your saying. And this post is one of the more sensible and explained of them. But I have to say this game is not and never was promoted as an mmorpg. Its a 3psMmo.

You nailed everythings else tho, good job, + 1

Actually it was and is still promoted as a MMORPG just watch across the badlands and look at there live chat, the answers some players get are on the topic of MMORPG straight from the Dev team. Also read any of the Top game magazines such as Game Informer or IGN.

But back to this post, Dido bro you are right on the mark as far as this game goes. It was released too early and then they rush to fix things and end up creating more problems. I was a Alpha and Beta Tester and most of us told the Dev Team how unstable the Servers where and all the Lagging as well as audio chat being terrible. The answer they gave me time and time again was and I quote " all these issues of lagging and not being able to use Mics wont be a issue upon final release. All your testing (ME) is server stress" end quote. I think they will not be giving us any more maps for anything because the servers cant handle it, that is probably why they took out one from the PvP part of the game. But who knows maybe they will get it together, but as far as show tie ins what a bunch of BS, there will be alot more of show tie ins in the second season if it gets a second season.

Orge Lambart
05-09-2013, 11:41 AM
Has anyone else not receiving their tier lockbox items during purchase? Well it has happened to me for the third time. The first two they reimbursed my lockbox but today I didn't get a response when I explained thoroughly what had happened instead my ticket was just closed. I want to love this game so much but I have never dealt with so much. Who likes writing customer support for every time something goes wrong with a stupid lengthy explanation? I'm getting sick of it

I have never had the issue, I have had it not tell me which items I was granted, but never had the box not actually register, are you paying for the box with resources or bits? If bits... lol that sucks. If resources that sucks as well, but probably infinately more.

Wolfrick_Adar
05-09-2013, 12:33 PM
My concern is the same as a few other posters, the longer they take to fix these things and add new content, the more people leave. Every time people leave an mmo its harder to get them to come back. Also, it becomes harder and harder to get new people to give the game a chance as more and more bad opinions of the game are formed. At some point even if they turn it around the community will be so small that it won't make a difference. I really don't want it to get to that point.
http://community.defiance.com/en/2013/04/29/i-listen-therefore-i-am/
Improved chat options and grouping... better loot... trading and auction houses... more challenges and bosses... the devs clearly admit they know they're lacking. So what's in this thread that hasn't already been addressed?

Look, I want more content as much as the next guy. And I hope to hell the devs are working their ***** off to provide it. But a constant stream of people telling the devs when and in what order things should be done doesn't help anyone. I mean, what purpose does it serve? What do you want this thread to accomplish? A timetable? They can't estimate how long it will take to re-release the PvP map that worked in beta... how can they possibly tell us how long it will take to rebuild the chat system from scratch?