PDA

View Full Version : Why I think people are pissed at weapon drops.



MagellanD
05-08-2013, 07:22 AM
I made this post last night and think it should be it's own thread.

I'm seeing a tone of complaints about the weapons not being that much different no matter what colour.

To me this game is about the personal skill progression much more than loot drops. Loot is part of the game but it's focused on personal skill and EGO building.

Before you all shoot me and stuff weird objects up my orifices then burn my body hear me out.

This is all Trions fault. They advertise it as an MMO (tps then MMO whatever). They are known for MMOs. MOST MMos fit a formula.
Trion then went to try and change things up and break this mold with what I think is a unique system of progression. A new way to look outside the box and keep a game balanced so the masses could play together.

Then Trion didn't document shtako. We've all had to figure out the modding. Their recent post about weapon progression they wrote themselves about their game has errors. It totally forgot to mention when the bar on your gun is done you need to replace it. They screwed up their own INSTRUCTIONS. Trion did very little to get the message out that other than a shooter MMO this is an entirely new kind of system. One that can actually be a bit deeper than looking for the next drop that makes your character uber powered.

The tutorial is. Here is a gun, here is another gun, here is a grenade, EGO power basics, then it sends you off to paradise to figure it all out.

The in game help is buried and not informative. none absolutely none of their "go to place and hit x missions" teach you about this.

In turn these poor little shtako heads come here and complain under the assumption that this is a traditional MMO. They shoot their mouths off all because they are mis informed by the company that makes this game.

Some people don't go to the forums like we Internet savvy people do in order to learn and read about the game. Even though there are tones of sites dedicated to this kind of help, most of it comes from us players having to figure it out on our own.

I know trion wanted to get people in the game and playing quick but this is the trade off and what happens.

When you don't document how your game is different and do an effective job at explaining some nuances this is what happens.
I'm not saying the game should hand hold every fraking baby. I'm just saying even if they substituted some of the EGO voice with
"I notice your weapon is maxed out, you should change it in order to level up your personal stats"
We'd have more hints instead of just being expected to know

they could have also twisted the early missions to teach without hand holding.

This would have probably gotten them a higher review score with regards to the story and lead to a lot less frustrated casual console gamers. It would have also been less of go here press "X" type of missions.


Just my thoughts

EnabrimGFC
05-08-2013, 07:36 AM
People always say you have to replace guns after you max the level and that's not true. I'm EGO1600 and I still have a few Orange guns from EGO700 because they are baller and I haven't found anything better / I don't want to spend scrip re-modding a new gun. I keep them to use for boss battles, tough solo areas and PvP. I use my shiny green vendor guns to troll mutants on Mt. Tamm and dungeon trash.

MrRotten
05-08-2013, 07:44 AM
I agree with most of your points and even the ones that I don't totally agree with aren't that far off.

Fact is, if I wasn't a veteran MMO player, I def could see where I would of been frustrated and had a ton of trouble as well.

I ran into quite of bit of issues and there is a learning curve not so much as game play is concerned, but as how the unique systems are done.

However; because I am a veteran MMO player, I didn't get frustrated and I just broke it down and figured it out. I also used online resources to help.

So yea I could see if a new player is picking this game up; I can't imagine how mad some of those people are.

With all the bugs and issues with the game, and then having to figure out all the systems and having no real information to go off of, it can seem like it's a very bad game.

All in all I've loved this game... and have already gotten my $60 bucks out of it.

People seem to forget that they'll spend $60 on a game that they can beat in a few weeks with very little re-playability in it.

I see alot of people claiming boredom and they've finished "Everything" in the game. If that's the case, they still got $60 worth of time out of it. Most games you spend $60 on don't come with this much stuff to do.

The fact is though, we still have 5 DLC's coming, sure we don't know when they're coming and I'm sure we prob should of gotten maybe 1 already.

However; as most MMOs and most games, they want to clean up the core game before adding more content. The best game design companies do it this way. Clean up the game, get the core game working, then add the DLC. The worst game companies add the DLC content with all the bugs and errors and end up making the game even worse.

So I have no doubt that their timeline is probably off a bit because of all these issues they didn't anticipate.

I think it's real easy to bag on Trion for this game because it's so unique and it's quite frankly ground breaking. They're trying to do something that hasn't been done before. And because of that, I think they've pulled it off pretty good, it was bound to have issues. I have to keep reminding myself of this.

I admit I've been frustrated for the bugs; mostly the small bugs are more frustrating. I also admit that their lack of keeping us informed about stuff is pretty frustrating as well. The good design teams all release a game, all those good games have issues, and things that need fixed. I get that, I think most of us do. But the good design teams do everything they can to keep us informed as to whats coming, when it's coming, and how the changes are done.

If this design team has failed in any category with a game launch, I'd say it's merely just their process of keeping their customers informed and recognizing that we're all frustrated, even the ones that aren't on the forums complaining.

They've given us 7 days of boosts, but now what?

All in all, I'm happy with the game, encouraged by the future of the game, and also encouraged that Trion has tackled a very ambitious project that I'm sure they are learning as they go and will motivate other companies to give us similar products.

So I'm in "Wait and see mode..." and about to do the Main Mission line for the 3rd time,
MrRotten

MagellanD
05-08-2013, 07:49 AM
People always say you have to replace guns after you max the level and that's not true. I'm EGO1600 and I still have a few Orange guns from EGO700 because they are baller and I haven't found anything better / I don't want to spend scrip re-modding a new gun. I keep them to use for boss battles, tough solo areas and PvP. I use my shiny green vendor guns to troll mutants on Mt. Tamm and dungeon trash.
In order to progress on the personal skill level you HAVE to change.

I myself have an EGO 250 Sniper I will keep because of it's sheer awesomeness in reload, shot speed and max ammo gives me 14 shots.
I'm not saying you have to throw it away you do have to change in order to make your player a more effective killer in the skills progression.

The longer you delay the changing of weapons the longer you delay your personal growth. It's the game's mechanic.

I could be EGO 700 and focused on progression against an EGO 1500 person who didn't change weapons at all and I'd get more bonuses in my fight.

MagellanD
05-08-2013, 07:54 AM
I agree with most of your points and even the ones that I don't totally agree with aren't that far off.

Fact is, if I wasn't a veteran MMO player, I def could see where I would of been frustrated and had a ton of trouble as well.

I ran into quite of bit of issues and there is a learning curve not so much as game play is concerned, but as how the unique systems are done.

However; because I am a veteran MMO player, I didn't get frustrated and I just broke it down and figured it out. I also used online resources to help.

So yea I could see if a new player is picking this game up; I can't imagine how mad some of those people are.

With all the bugs and issues with the game, and then having to figure out all the systems and having no real information to go off of, it can seem like it's a very bad game.

All in all I've loved this game... and have already gotten my $60 bucks out of it.

People seem to forget that they'll spend $60 on a game that they can beat in a few weeks with very little re-playability in it.

I see alot of people claiming boredom and they've finished "Everything" in the game. If that's the case, they still got $60 worth of time out of it. Most games you spend $60 on don't come with this much stuff to do.

The fact is though, we still have 5 DLC's coming, sure we don't know when they're coming and I'm sure we prob should of gotten maybe 1 already.

However; as most MMOs and most games, they want to clean up the core game before adding more content. The best game design companies do it this way. Clean up the game, get the core game working, then add the DLC. The worst game companies add the DLC content with all the bugs and errors and end up making the game even worse.

So I have no doubt that their timeline is probably off a bit because of all these issues they didn't anticipate.

I think it's real easy to bag on Trion for this game because it's so unique and it's quite frankly ground breaking. They're trying to do something that hasn't been done before. And because of that, I think they've pulled it off pretty good, it was bound to have issues. I have to keep reminding myself of this.

I admit I've been frustrated for the bugs; mostly the small bugs are more frustrating. I also admit that their lack of keeping us informed about stuff is pretty frustrating as well. The good design teams all release a game, all those good games have issues, and things that need fixed. I get that, I think most of us do. But the good design teams do everything they can to keep us informed as to whats coming, when it's coming, and how the changes are done.

If this design team has failed in any category with a game launch, I'd say it's merely just their process of keeping their customers informed and recognizing that we're all frustrated, even the ones that aren't on the forums complaining.

They've given us 7 days of boosts, but now what?

All in all, I'm happy with the game, encouraged by the future of the game, and also encouraged that Trion has tackled a very ambitious project that I'm sure they are learning as they go and will motivate other companies to give us similar products.

So I'm in "Wait and see mode..." and about to do the Main Mission line for the 3rd time,
MrRotten

I'm with you on this. It boils down to: WE UNDERSTAND how this game is different. What we need to do in order to progress.
I'm still liking this game.
The bugs and patches introducing more bugs has downed that from love though. I'm willing to stick it out too!

Your comment on Trion not being openly communicative I think goes hand in hand to the messaging about how this game is different.
They need a new PR team or upper management figuring out how to get this messaging in game.

I read the community blog but not everyone does and this is where they're trying to message it.

Trion instead of spamming our screen and chat window about PvP and co-op in game, how about you change the message to drive more people to the blog OR message how the game mechanics differ. Use this space for valuable messages to your community instead of trying to drive more people to PvP.

MrRotten
05-08-2013, 08:06 AM
I'm with you on this. It boils down to: WE UNDERSTAND how this game is different. What we need to do in order to progress.
I'm still liking this game.
The bugs and patches introducing more bugs has downed that from love though. I'm willing to stick it out too!

Your comment on Trion not being openly communicative I think goes hand in hand to the messaging about how this game is different.
They need a new PR team or upper management figuring out how to get this messaging in game.

I read the community blog but not everyone does and this is where they're trying to message it.

Trion instead of spamming our screen and chat window about PvP and co-op in game, how about you change the message to drive more people to the blog OR message how the game mechanics differ. Use this space for valuable messages to your community instead of trying to drive more people to PvP.

Personally I think this is a huge problem in regards to their Server load...

They need to cut back on all the fancy popups and the fancy messages and the spam...

The Level/Power Level Spam
The Ark Salvage Spam
The Equipment Spam

I think if they get rid of all the fancy notifications and just make them minimal and normal... for example making Ark Salvage messages more like it is when you gain script, just a simple quick message and it pops up small on the left and it's gone.

Stuff like this popping up for everyone constantly I can see leading to some of the Server Issues and lag...

What I would like is def some way to inform the community IN GAME on more of the stuff like Weapon Leveling.

People who play a game, a good majority aren't going to goto the Forums or the Websites.

Especially if the game has issues, I only do it just to keep informed as to whats going on in the community and the talk about the game so I can gauge it's interest and it's future. Most won't do it cuz they don't want to read pages and pages of Trolls and waste their time.

I like their Data Recording system, I think they could of done it a bit better. They have Recordings of alot of the basic things in game if you know where to go and listen to them. I think they could improve upon this and tell us that those recordings are there for our own resources to help inform us about the basics and advanced things of the game.

I do like your idea though about some sort of indicator telling us when our Weapon Xp is maxed, I'm not sure I would want it to be the message with the chic that pops up who gets annoying as it is after awhile when she repeats the same things over and over again.

It might not be as annoying perhaps if she has other things to say like "Your Weapon is Maxed." but I still think that'll get hella annoying after awhile.

Keep it simple... They have a great game here, they can do with out all the flashy popups as that's not what makes this game fun, it's in dire need of some major polishing up before they start releasing the DLC.

I know we want the DLC and we want it now, but I'm willing to be patient to get the core game fixed up and polished up so we can truly enjoy the new DLC and not have to keep dealing with the bug annoyances while doing it.

...just my 2 cents worth,
MrRotten

Draaconis
05-08-2013, 08:09 AM
It tickles me when I think about class balance. I always thought it was a myth, but then Trion found a way to do it so the unwashed masses are whining that there is class balance. Hilarious.

MagellanD
05-08-2013, 08:12 AM
Personally I think this is a huge problem in regards to their Server load...

They need to cut back on all the fancy popups and the fancy messages and the spam...

The Level/Power Level Spam
The Ark Salvage Spam
The Equipment Spam

I think if they get rid of all the fancy notifications and just make them minimal and normal... for example making Ark Salvage messages more like it is when you gain script, just a simple quick message and it pops up small on the left and it's gone.

Stuff like this popping up for everyone constantly I can see leading to some of the Server Issues and lag...

What I would like is def some way to inform the community IN GAME on more of the stuff like Weapon Leveling.

People who play a game, a good majority aren't going to goto the Forums or the Websites.

Especially if the game has issues, I only do it just to keep informed as to whats going on in the community and the talk about the game so I can gauge it's interest and it's future. Most won't do it cuz they don't want to read pages and pages of Trolls and waste their time.

I like their Data Recording system, I think they could of done it a bit better. They have Recordings of alot of the basic things in game if you know where to go and listen to them. I think they could improve upon this and tell us that those recordings are there for our own resources to help inform us about the basics and advanced things of the game.

I do like your idea though about some sort of indicator telling us when our Weapon Xp is maxed, I'm not sure I would want it to be the message with the chic that pops up who gets annoying as it is after awhile when she repeats the same things over and over again.

It might not be as annoying perhaps if she has other things to say like "Your Weapon is Maxed." but I still think that'll get hella annoying after awhile.

Keep it simple... They have a great game here that is in dire need of some major polishing up before they start releasing the DLC.

I know we want the DLC and we want it now, but I'm willing to be patient to get the core game fixed up and polished up so we can truly enjoy the new DLC and not have to keep dealing with the bug annoyances while doing it.

...just my 2 cents worth,
MrRotten

Not too long..I actually read. ;)

I agree with the server load and your point of view. It also sucks because their chat system is broken they flash the message all over your screen while you're fighting. Why invest time in this big message when you can FIX the original problem.

I think that level of huge words on the screen should be reserved for the server going down maintenance messages only.

I agree EGO gets a bit annoying. if they patched in these new messages and voices every once in awhile for her, it would become less annoying, people would listen to her, they could get a message out and keep some level of interest in EGO.

MrRotten
05-08-2013, 08:22 AM
Not too long..I actually read. ;)

I agree with the server load and your point of view. It also sucks because their chat system is broken they flash the message all over your screen while you're fighting. Why invest time in this big message when you can FIX the original problem.

I think that level of huge words on the screen should be reserved for the server going down maintenance messages only.

I agree EGO gets a bit annoying. if they patched in these new messages and voices every once in awhile for her, it would become less annoying, people would listen to her, they could get a message out and keep some level of interest in EGO.

Hmmm, that's actually not a bad idea.

I could be cool with that, you're suggesting that they make that chic in the bottom right corner programmable?

Quest Info
Weapon Max Notification
War Notifications
Special Messages from Trion

That wouldn't be too bad if they expand on that... She pops in, says what shes gotta say, and pops back out.

I think that would be better then all the flashy spam popups and it would probably help the Server Loads.

Still think she'd get way annoying after awhile if shes talking too much... HAHA

MagellanD
05-08-2013, 08:31 AM
Hmmm, that's actually not a bad idea.

I could be cool with that, you're suggesting that they make that chic in the bottom right corner programmable?

Quest Info
Weapon Max Notification
War Notifications
Special Messages from Trion

That wouldn't be too bad if they expand on that... She pops in, says what shes gotta say, and pops back out.

I think that would be better then all the flashy spam popups and it would probably help the Server Loads.

Still think she'd get way annoying after awhile if shes talking too much... HAHA

Trion new Option please.
A button to tell EGO to go make me a sammich! LOL

All kidding aside us users here are coming up with tones of (hopefully easy to implement into their code base) ideas. They say they're listening but as the community blog states it's easy to talk and harder to walk.

If for instance an EGO reply is set up for criteria couldn't they just overwrite the sound file attached to that instance to change it up?
Yes new criteria would have to be created so ego would talk on the "learning about the game" elements but once created can be leveraged and changed in order to be not so monotonous.

I alo really hope they improve on the emotes.
a Greeting and Cheer should not spit out the same three repeated awful messages.
We should alo be able to THANK people. I guess trion wants us to be rude.

BJWyler
05-08-2013, 08:45 AM
Very good points made in this thread. I also have come from a traditional RPG/MMO background and it has been quite the learning curve figuring out the new mechanics that Trion has put in. Naturally some of it reminds me of GW2 (which I don't play), but the one that threw me the most is the weapons system - even now, after understanding it better, it's hard for me to break the habit of seeing a blue or purple drop (or vendor item) and thinking it should be better than the white or green I've been using for ages now. I don't think the system is necessarily bad at this point, but I think it can be tweaked a bit to allow for a better weapons progression that still maintains the horizontal leveling curve.

MrRotten
05-08-2013, 09:06 AM
Very good points made in this thread. I also have come from a traditional RPG/MMO background and it has been quite the learning curve figuring out the new mechanics that Trion has put in. Naturally some of it reminds me of GW2 (which I don't play), but the one that threw me the most is the weapons system - even now, after understanding it better, it's hard for me to break the habit of seeing a blue or purple drop (or vendor item) and thinking it should be better than the white or green I've been using for ages now. I don't think the system is necessarily bad at this point, but I think it can be tweaked a bit to allow for a better weapons progression that still maintains the horizontal leveling curve.

I don't have any concrete proof or evidence over this, but I do think the Colors do play a role...

I don't think it's as vanilla as people think.

I believe and someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but for example:

Green Weapons have more XP then White, will get better bonuses then White, will get a better Random Effect once the weapon XP is maxed.

Etc.. etc....

I've gotta believe there is some kind of factors that make Green better then White, that makes Blue better then Green/White, and Orange better then Blue/Green/White.

I've also read somewhere that they progress better at higher rarities, but I don't know...

None of this is based on any testing by me or proof.
All of this is theory crafting and speculation...

MagellanD
05-08-2013, 09:12 AM
I don't have any concrete proof or evidence over this, but I do think the Colors do play a role...

I don't think it's as vanilla as people think.

I believe and someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but for example:

Green Weapons have more XP then White, will get better bonuses then White, will get a better Random Effect once the weapon XP is maxed.

Etc.. etc....

I've gotta believe there is some kind of factors that make Green better then White, that makes Blue better then Green/White, and Orange better then Blue/Green/White.

I've also read somewhere that they progress better at higher rarities, but I don't know...

None of this is based on any testing by me or proof.
All of this is theory crafting and speculation...

Which again leads to Trion needed to have better documentation about their deep system.
Also when the weapon's bar fills up a bonus is added. It seems the added bonus on weapon finishing is better at the different levels of weapons.

My purple Clustershot gives EGO fill on damage vs my green which is just some speed increase in ROF

MrRotten
05-08-2013, 09:14 AM
Also when the weapon's bar fills up a bonus is added. It seems the added bonus on weapon finishing is better at the different levels of weapons.

Right, it's a Random Bonus, but I believe the Bonus is better at higher rarities, that's what I was saying.