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View Full Version : Infector: Anti-Sniping?



Coolrockski
05-08-2013, 09:07 PM
That is the description of the infector with 40m range. The problem is there are no snipers in PVP, but 80% SG and Infectors..and that really isn't much of an exaggeration! I am actually almost happy when killed by a sniper. I have never seen PVP with modern weapons where assault rifles are not the norm, let alone sniper rifles.

I still love the PVP and play a ton of it, but come on.. a few hits from an infector at long range and you die within seconds from the DOT?? Plus, the infectors broke Freight Yard..another reason to hate them.

Hithlum
05-08-2013, 09:10 PM
I'd say sniper rifles are the 2nd most used weapon on Observatory after Shotguns. Infectors (Immunizers mostly) are very good on Waterfront though.

Miles Morales
05-08-2013, 09:16 PM
tbh anti sniper is more annoying than shotty's atleast.. with shotty's I have a chance to throw a nade over my shoulder and keep on fighting.

Dwane
05-08-2013, 09:50 PM
Problem with snipes is short drawing distance (u cant even see from one side of Observatory to other one). Also even with fully decked rifle with all available offensive perks you often dont kill with 1HS.

Klay
05-12-2013, 03:14 PM
tbh anti sniper is more annoying than shotty's atleast.. with shotty's I have a chance to throw a nade over my shoulder and keep on fighting.

yeah or at least jump out of the way i have tryed rolling, jumping and out kill a person with all the other guns and its nearly impossible especially if that person has back up. i don't know how they can fix this except ether decreasing the range or making a list of banned guns for pvp because they are too powerful.

like in TCG when a card/ cards are too powerful they are normal limited or put on a ban list to make the game less silly.

Natjur
05-12-2013, 03:22 PM
Wondering, what would PVP be like if there was friendly fire.
Eg, The bugs attacked anyone (either side, even yourself), you can kill your own team mate (and get BIG time neg score for doing so, even losing kill counts from your totals)

I guess that would open up too many issues.

PseudoCool
05-12-2013, 03:30 PM
Ya know, this is something I've been keeping an eye on in the game recently, as well as the threads.

The problem with Freight Yard, to my knowledge, has NOTHING to do with immunizers, so to the OP, that is at best an exaggeration. If someone has some proof from a Dev to state otherwise, I'd love to see it and will retract and admit my mistake immediately. But I haven't seen it, nor found it.

The problem that people seem to be having with the immunizers is that people are using them differently than their description. The description states that with it's longer range it makes an effective anti-sniper weapon, and for the 80m draw distance, it certainly does. However, using the weapon for other situations, the immunizer (like every AR, SMG, LMG, ETC in the game) does an exceptional job at being a multi-purpose weapon. Farther range and better accuracy than other infectors, faster spawn rates, and excellent spawn homing distance.

But...

And I'll make this clear so people can gather it: You *CAN* shoot the bugs! Just did it last night in Shadow Wars to test the theory, and you most definitely CAN shoot them, so you only take 4.. yes FOUR.. points of damage. I would think that this means the bugs are much like those little robots that the Scrappers launch.

Frankly, the idea of any more "nerfs" for the benefit of pvp, or people who play pvp, in this game is a game killer. I'm a member of multiple groups of long term gamers, everything from RPG's to shooters.. and frankly, Defiance is already getting a reputation as being PvP-Centric, and that's putting off a LOT of players from different communities. It's not the path that Defiance needs to take IMHO, if it wants to be a game with longevity. PvP players are well known for leaving for the latest craze/fad/shiny game on the market.

In Short for the Immunizer:

The weapon does FOUR points of damage, with bug damage ranging from 30 to 600 hp per bite (600 being the RARE multi-crit)

Has limited accuracy at range beyond 20m (which is the max range of the other infectors),

Has the LOWEST bug damage while having a slightly higher bug homing range,

Has the QUICKEST bug spawn-to-death time of any of the infectors in the game.

There's no other way to balance this weapon other than to remove it, and that's a slope we've already travelled down before for the sake of PvP. Shotguns have already been nerfed because of PvP, and for the most part, just made them totally useless for PvE unless your REALLY a great shooter (which most, not all but most, CASUAL players are not). This cry for things to be nerfed for the sake of PvP really needs to stop.

You *CAN* shoot the bugs, just don't stand in one spot when they hit you with the needles.. the bugs will spawn, and you swat them off the ground (amazingly a shot gun works WONDERS for this, as the bugs have almost NO HP!).

What's next? Do we nerf Cloak because everyone's using cloak to kill in PvP? Yup, I"ve got at least 2 clan members who won't pvp until Cloak is removed specifically for that purpose, and frankly, I agree with them on the fact that it needs adjusted, but that's another post.

PvP CAN NOT be the focus of this game if it's ever going to survive. I know that doesn't fit well with the overwhelming loudest, and overwhelmingly smallest, group of players in any MMO.. but that's the reality. History has shown us, time and time again, that when a game is constantly "balanced" for the sake of PvP, that game inevitably doesn't last very long. I'd prefer to see Defiance around a good long time.

Frankly.. if you want a perfect balance for PVP, there's an easy solution for it:
No Ego Powers or Perks
No Skill Bonuses applied from class skills
Everyone has the EXACT SAME WEAPONS AND SHIELDS

There ya go... perfect PvP Balance. Change the weapons up weekly, or based on the map, and let SKILL be the true decider of the PvP land. Now.. since you and I both know that the PvP crowd will go BONKERS over being told what weapons to use (and I'm sure about it, I would be as well), then we know that's never going to happen. But frankly, that's the ONLY WAY TO BALANCE PVP!

Orge Lambart
05-12-2013, 03:55 PM
Immunizers are great PVE weapons, totally balanced, and make fighting fun. They are slightly unbalanced in PVP, but I'm tired of seeing PVE get nerfed to appease the PVP savages. I'd perfer they remove all infectors or atleast the Immunizers from PVP totally than nerf them anymore than they already are.

Some guns shine in both PVP and PVE like the Saw LMG, unfortunately people are too caught up in their I'm using my shotgun infector combo to realize other guns can shine as well. The over use of Shotgun/Infectors/RL and Detonators has to do with the ease to use them. All the AE no aim required guns make the game easy to play, but at the same time tick off people who use other guns like Sub Machine guns, LMG, assault Rifles and pistols.

The best way to balance the game is premade PVP classes. Or for that matter let people use X amount of PVP perks and weapons, this reduces the amoung of needed balances and allows some things that are totally OP'd in PVP but perfect in PVE to be left alone.

Atticus Batman
05-12-2013, 03:55 PM
Ya know, this is something I've been keeping an eye on in the game recently, as well as the threads.

The problem with Freight Yard, to my knowledge, has NOTHING to do with immunizers, so to the OP, that is at best an exaggeration. If someone has some proof from a Dev to state otherwise, I'd love to see it and will retract and admit my mistake immediately. But I haven't seen it, nor found it.

The problem that people seem to be having with the immunizers is that people are using them differently than their description. The description states that with it's longer range it makes an effective anti-sniper weapon, and for the 80m draw distance, it certainly does. However, using the weapon for other situations, the immunizer (like every AR, SMG, LMG, ETC in the game) does an exceptional job at being a multi-purpose weapon. Farther range and better accuracy than other infectors, faster spawn rates, and excellent spawn homing distance.

But...

And I'll make this clear so people can gather it: You *CAN* shoot the bugs! Just did it last night in Shadow Wars to test the theory, and you most definitely CAN shoot them, so you only take 4.. yes FOUR.. points of damage. I would think that this means the bugs are much like those little robots that the Scrappers launch.

Frankly, the idea of any more "nerfs" for the benefit of pvp, or people who play pvp, in this game is a game killer. I'm a member of multiple groups of long term gamers, everything from RPG's to shooters.. and frankly, Defiance is already getting a reputation as being PvP-Centric, and that's putting off a LOT of players from different communities. It's not the path that Defiance needs to take IMHO, if it wants to be a game with longevity. PvP players are well known for leaving for the latest craze/fad/shiny game on the market.

In Short for the Immunizer:

The weapon does FOUR points of damage, with bug damage ranging from 30 to 600 hp per bite (600 being the RARE multi-crit)

Has limited accuracy at range beyond 20m (which is the max range of the other infectors),

Has the LOWEST bug damage while having a slightly higher bug homing range,

Has the QUICKEST bug spawn-to-death time of any of the infectors in the game.

There's no other way to balance this weapon other than to remove it, and that's a slope we've already travelled down before for the sake of PvP. Shotguns have already been nerfed because of PvP, and for the most part, just made them totally useless for PvE unless your REALLY a great shooter (which most, not all but most, CASUAL players are not). This cry for things to be nerfed for the sake of PvP really needs to stop.

You *CAN* shoot the bugs, just don't stand in one spot when they hit you with the needles.. the bugs will spawn, and you swat them off the ground (amazingly a shot gun works WONDERS for this, as the bugs have almost NO HP!).

What's next? Do we nerf Cloak because everyone's using cloak to kill in PvP? Yup, I"ve got at least 2 clan members who won't pvp until Cloak is removed specifically for that purpose, and frankly, I agree with them on the fact that it needs adjusted, but that's another post.

PvP CAN NOT be the focus of this game if it's ever going to survive. I know that doesn't fit well with the overwhelming loudest, and overwhelmingly smallest, group of players in any MMO.. but that's the reality. History has shown us, time and time again, that when a game is constantly "balanced" for the sake of PvP, that game inevitably doesn't last very long. I'd prefer to see Defiance around a good long time.

Frankly.. if you want a perfect balance for PVP, there's an easy solution for it:
No Ego Powers or Perks
No Skill Bonuses applied from class skills
Everyone has the EXACT SAME WEAPONS AND SHIELDS

There ya go... perfect PvP Balance. Change the weapons up weekly, or based on the map, and let SKILL be the true decider of the PvP land. Now.. since you and I both know that the PvP crowd will go BONKERS over being told what weapons to use (and I'm sure about it, I would be as well), then we know that's never going to happen. But frankly, that's the ONLY WAY TO BALANCE PVP!

I agree with this, especially the last part and the having to quit nerfin. This is NOT a PvP game. it's a PvE game, the Pvp is just there for something to do to give you a break from PvE. I hate when the minority (PvPers) whine and get the whole game f.u.b.a.r'ed for everyone. I do not want PvPer created f.u.b.a.r. I want the fun game I've played since beta to improve not get destroyed by a few arrogant, overly competetive teenagers with BIG mouths and the inability to actually strategize.

As for the complaints they have about the infectors destroying freightyard, I agree that isn't the only problem but I do know why they are focusing on it.

The following quote by Sledgehammer70, taken out of context is what has them in a huff.


"But today’s re re release of Freight Yard has exposed a critical bug that we were unable to see until the map was released onto our live servers. The issue specifically revolves around Infectors. In short, a lot of you are using these awesome weapons, so much so that the instance was not designed to handle the amount of infection going on with 16 players."

Here's the actual link to the thread the bit was taken from, and I agree the infectors are NOT the big issue with freightyard, it's all the players and hold points being invisible.

http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?63570-Freight-Yard-Update-(Punching-Sharks)&p=572350#post572350

Orge Lambart
05-12-2013, 04:02 PM
I agree with this, especially the last part and the having to quit nerfin. This is NOT a PvP game. it's a PvE game, the Pvp is just there for something to do to give you a break from PvE. I hate when the minority (PvPers) whine and get the whole game f.u.b.a.r'ed for everyone. I do not want PvPer created f.u.b.a.r. I want the fun game I've played since beta to improve not get destroyed by a few arrogant, overly competetive teenagers with BIG mouths and the inability to actually strategize.

As for the complaints they have about the infectors destroying freightyard, I agree that isn't the only problem but I do know why they are focusing on it.

The following quote by Sledgehammer70, taken out of context is what has them in a huff.


"But today’s re re release of Freight Yard has exposed a critical bug that we were unable to see until the map was released onto our live servers. The issue specifically revolves around Infectors. In short, a lot of you are using these awesome weapons, so much so that the instance was not designed to handle the amount of infection going on with 16 players."

Here's the actual link to the thread the bit was taken from, and I agree the infectors are NOT the big issue with freightyard, it's all the players and hold points being invisible.

http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?63570-Freight-Yard-Update-(Punching-Sharks)&p=572350#post572350

All the bugs were making the game too unstable, IE 10+ people using infectors which spawn as many 5 - 15 bugs each, = alot of load on the Xbox, seeing as I beleive Freight yard is P2P like the other PVP maps.

PseudoCool
05-12-2013, 04:08 PM
I agree with this, especially the last part and the having to quit nerfin. This is NOT a PvP game. it's a PvE game, the Pvp is just there for something to do to give you a break from PvE. I hate when the minority (PvPers) whine and get the whole game f.u.b.a.r'ed for everyone. I do not want PvPer created f.u.b.a.r. I want the fun game I've played since beta to improve not get destroyed by a few arrogant, overly competetive teenagers with BIG mouths and the inability to actually strategize.

As for the complaints they have about the infectors destroying freightyard, I agree that isn't the only problem but I do know why they are focusing on it.

The following quote by Sledgehammer70, taken out of context is what has them in a huff.


"But today’s re re release of Freight Yard has exposed a critical bug that we were unable to see until the map was released onto our live servers. The issue specifically revolves around Infectors. In short, a lot of you are using these awesome weapons, so much so that the instance was not designed to handle the amount of infection going on with 16 players."

Here's the actual link to the thread the bit was taken from, and I agree the infectors are NOT the big issue with freightyard, it's all the players and hold points being invisible.

http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?63570-Freight-Yard-Update-(Punching-Sharks)&p=572350#post572350

Thank you.. I stand corrected about Freight Yard having issues caused by infector over-use. However, I don't agree with the part about "overly competitive arrogant teenagers" being an issue. I've got a guild that seems to love PvP, and I don't think there's a teenager in the bunch. I also know many others who enjoy PvP, and know for a fact that none of them are teenagers. Now, that being said, I'm sure there's several such on these forums who are exactly as you described, but let's try not to lump EVERY PVP'er into that category shall we? :)

Jinn Goodman
05-12-2013, 04:27 PM
The amount of w/e guns used is dependent on what platform you play on.

aRtFuL
05-12-2013, 05:03 PM
PvP CAN NOT be the focus of this game if it's ever going to survive. I know that doesn't fit well with the overwhelming loudest, and overwhelmingly smallest, group of players in any MMO.. but that's the reality. History has shown us, time and time again, that when a game is constantly "balanced" for the sake of PvP, that game inevitably doesn't last very long. I'd prefer to see Defiance around a good long time.


I agree with this, especially the last part and the having to quit nerfin. This is NOT a PvP game. it's a PvE game, the Pvp is just there for something to do to give you a break from PvE. I hate when the minority (PvPers) whine and get the whole game f.u.b.a.r'ed for everyone. I do not want PvPer created f.u.b.a.r. I want the fun game I've played since beta to improve not get destroyed by a few arrogant, overly competetive teenagers with BIG mouths and the inability to actually strategize.

I agree with both of this. I myself has commented time after time that this game was NOT built from ground-up to be a pvp game and people shouldn't expect it to be. I myself am a pvper in games however I hardly pvp in this game because I know this game is NOT a pvp game.

If people want a pvp TPS game they will probably be better off playing APB... but you know what? Those same people are probably the ones yelling "hackers" and "cheaters" at anyone that is better than them in a "balanced" TPS game, lol.

I guess developers just can't win.

PseudoCool
05-13-2013, 08:06 AM
I agree with both of this. I myself has commented time after time that this game was NOT built from ground-up to be a pvp game and people shouldn't expect it to be. I myself am a pvper in games however I hardly pvp in this game because I know this game is NOT a pvp game.

If people want a pvp TPS game they will probably be better off playing APB... but you know what? Those same people are probably the ones yelling "hackers" and "cheaters" at anyone that is better than them in a "balanced" TPS game, lol.

I guess developers just can't win.

I've heard APB is a good and balanced game for PvP, but I'm not a "Huge" pvp person.. I play it to help out clan mates from time to time, but that's about it.

And I'd wager your probably right about the complainers.. heck, I've seen whole posts on here where people try to jack threads calling someone who owned them in PvP a "hacker" or "cheater".. heck.. I've even seen those excellent PvP players post up VIDEOS of their non-hack-killing, and frankly, it's pretty damn impressive :)

I do agree that this game, if it's going to continue to promote such PvP (which it does with it's weekly/daily contracts and other pursuits), that there needs to be some form of balance. I'm personally all for giving everyone the exact same load-outs and ignoring all ego skills/perks, as well as ignoring all weapons class skill bonuses as well, but I've already been told how boring that would be (and I do agree, it would be).. but in this game, I don't see how there's ever going to be a balanced PvP otherwise.

But.. again.. there needs to be NO NEW NERFS for the sake of PvP. We've had 2 in the first 3 weeks of the game being launched, the reputation is already spreading in many of the gaming communities that we're a pvp game, and that's already driving away customers and great players.

cusman
05-13-2013, 08:21 AM
That is the description of the infector with 40m range. The problem is there are no snipers in PVP, but 80% SG and Infectors..and that really isn't much of an exaggeration! I am actually almost happy when killed by a sniper. I have never seen PVP with modern weapons where assault rifles are not the norm, let alone sniper rifles.

I still love the PVP and play a ton of it, but come on.. a few hits from an infector at long range and you die within seconds from the DOT?? Plus, the infectors broke Freight Yard..another reason to hate them.

Even after I got my 50 counts of head shots trophy, I still like to take my Bolt-Action Sniper in to PvP as my secondary weapon. In fact I have bolt-rifle secondary on 4 out of my 5 loadouts. For primary in PvP, I use Nano Fragger, Incendiary Detonator, Bonfire Rocket, or AR.

I did play around with Auto-Fraggers (Combat Shotgun) and Grind Fragger (Pump Shotgun) a little bit but nothing beats the Nano Fragger (Sawed Off Shotgun) for PvP in my opinion.

If I don't have a Nano Fragger, I might use the Courier. I have also used the Infiltrator Rockets (not sure on name exactly but you can fire 3 rockets pretty fast, they stick on enemies and do 1200ish damage when they explode after short delay)

For EGO powers, I go in with Cloak mostly, but I also like to use Blur. I think Decoy could be good in there as well. The Overcharge I think is better for co-op.

Indra Echo
05-13-2013, 08:21 AM
I agree so much with Pseudocool on this. Changing weapon abilities for the sake of PvP just kills the rest of the game. In fact, I totally wish that in some ways there was less of an emphasis than there already is on PvP (Echelon rep). PvP is partly based upon factors that become game killers-glitchers, exploiters, and other random acts of idiocy. It's also really subject to lag.

I've seen this in other games where the PvP players got their wishes for things and it totally messed up things for players that were more interested in PvE.

And no I'm not saying that every good player in PvP is a hacker or glitcher, but that does happen a lot. The problem is lag also accounts for a lot of disparity. But even in these forums there have been people that wanted to show off their PvP kill counts and then admitted to glitching.

Much of my disgust at PvP just comes from it being the same thing over and over again-the latest is cloaked cluster grenadiers or some variation.

Hellrush
05-13-2013, 08:32 AM
The main issue with this game and pvp, is the same issue with APB. Everything is client side rather than server side. Making things piss easy to hack.

Launching this game without something like punk buster or game guard was a mistake.

crasher
05-13-2013, 08:54 AM
Wondering, what would PVP be like if there was friendly fire.
Eg, The bugs attacked anyone (either side, even yourself), you can kill your own team mate (and get BIG time neg score for doing so, even losing kill counts from your totals)

I guess that would open up too many issues.

I used to imagine an arkfall with collateral damage.
I'm just glad I don't have to buy ammo or pay to have the scooter repaired.

Sanguinesun
05-13-2013, 10:25 AM
The most effective weapon against a sniper, is another sniper. The second most effective is a stealthed close range behind a sniper endeavor.

Sanguinesun
05-13-2013, 10:28 AM
The main issue with this game and pvp, is the same issue with APB. Everything is client side rather than server side. Making things piss easy to hack.

Launching this game without something like punk buster or game guard was a mistake.

Actually those things are mostly security/anti-hacker theater. They're no less able to squash hackers than most internal less publicized preventative/detection methods are.

aRtFuL
05-13-2013, 05:38 PM
The main issue with this game and pvp, is the same issue with APB. Everything is client side rather than server side. Making things piss easy to hack.

Launching this game without something like punk buster or game guard was a mistake.

Actually the main issue in this game is very different from APB. This game is not even balanced around pvp to start with.

In APB you don't have EGO powers and perks, and gun mods have bigger downside then upside in most cases (thus making specialization a very crucial decision). So in essence everyone is playing the same game and less of a factor of metagame.

A competitive pvp game doesn't have as significant a metagame element. There are no setup that is significantly better - there are some that is worse but people can still do well in it.

The reason for pvp inbalance in this game is because it is balanced in pve - you will notice that in pve all weapons and setup is almost ideal and have it's own averages/uses versus different types of mobs. They problem of course with that in pvp is in pvp player characters are only 1 type of mob (you don't have special attacks and special weaknesses, better health, jump higher or hit harder then other people using the same gear), thus the unbalance becomes very significant.