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Misto29
05-12-2013, 05:35 AM
Now I have noticed a lot of people talking about shotguns and infectors, along with cloaks in PVP and Shadow Wars. I have finally came up with an ideal to fix all of that and here is what the Devs need to do. They need to make it that every time you log into a PVP or Shadow War, that you spawn with a pistol and Assult Rifle with the exact same stats and no one can use any mods on them of any type.

Oh and let's not forget that when you log into one or the other you shouldn't be able to use Perks. Now if we did these few things, the Devs would no longer have to nerf weapons and everyone would be on the same playing field where it's all based off your skill. Now that I have said my two cents, please feel free to speak your mind. Good or bad I know a few out there will rant about how stupid this post is. So let the nice comments flows and the flamers rant and rave. :cool:

Calypso Atlas
05-12-2013, 05:36 AM
That doesn't sound like PVP or any sort of fun at all.

rReves
05-12-2013, 05:38 AM
Just remove cloak from pvp.
That would make things interesting and enjoyable again. The other skills are fine. Shotguns are not the problem.
Just remove cloak.

Calypso Atlas
05-12-2013, 05:39 AM
Just remove cloak from pvp.
That would make things interesting and enjoyable again. The other skills are fine. Shotguns are not the problem.
Just remove cloak.

Cloak isn't a problem at all, you can still see and hear people coming up on you.

Yenah
05-12-2013, 05:40 AM
And while we're at it they may as well make every PvP map a flat, open field with no defining features or cover of any sort, with bright white walls and floor, so that we can easily see everyone...
...What I am saying is I would rather not have a homogenized PvP experience..

mbergeron
05-12-2013, 05:42 AM
Cloak isn't a problem at all, you can still see and hear people coming up on you.

I doubt you can see invisible people and this games cloak is by far the most invisible I have seen in a PvP setting. As far as hearing people I don't think that factors into this game very much since most of the time the match is very chaotic so you won't be able to hear the one person trying to shoot you from behind through cloak.

piedlpiper
05-12-2013, 05:43 AM
They need to make it that every time you log into a PVP or Shadow War, that you spawn with a pistol and Assult Rifle with the exact same stats and no one can use any mods on them of any type.

Oh and let's not forget that when you log into one or the other you shouldn't be able to use Perks.

Yup, if they did that I would play PvP.

Calypso Atlas
05-12-2013, 05:45 AM
I doubt you can see invisible people and this games cloak is by far the most invisible I have seen in a PvP setting. As far as hearing people I don't think that factors into this game very much since most of the time the match is very chaotic so you won't be able to hear the one person trying to shoot you from behind through cloak.
The only invisable people I have been killed by are the ones hacking. Every Cloaker I have killed or been killed by I can clearly see by the blur of the enviorment.
And yes hearing them you can factor in, PVP is not JUST team deathmatch, it is also Shadow Wars.

Lance Dracolith
05-12-2013, 05:46 AM
I don't see a viable way to stop a cloak + shotgunner EXCEPT, making them a hell of a lot more visible. That being said, not so visible they can't getaway and people have suggested which I think is a great suggestion. Is to make it so that when cloakers are running they are very visible, when walking they are somewhat and when still not at all. This way shotgunners would actually HAVE to be stealthy otherwise a visually active player will spot you. Which I believe is how it should be played. You shouldn't be running into peoples faces with shotguns you SHOULD be getting them from behind and you SHOULD be trying to get the element of surprise not willy-nilly sprinting shooting eveything that comes close to you.

piedlpiper
05-12-2013, 05:48 AM
And while we're at it they may as well make every PvP map a flat, open field with no defining features or cover of any sort, with bright white walls and floor, so that we can easily see everyone...
...What I am saying is I would rather not have a homogenized PvP experience..

Not even close to being the same thing... It's about showing your skill and not your gear. Players who game a few hours a week will be on the same level as those playing several hours a day. The only draw back would be in knowing the map as well as everyone else, but that is also a skill thing.

Anderson
05-12-2013, 05:53 AM
Cloak wouldn't be an issue anymore, but PVP would be all kinds of boring then. It would officially become the blandest, least interesting shooter PVP ever.

Skydive
05-12-2013, 05:53 AM
The only invisable people I have been killed by are the ones hacking. Every Cloaker I have killed or been killed by I can clearly see by the blur of the enviorment.
And yes hearing them you can factor in, PVP is not JUST team deathmatch, it is also Shadow Wars.


I dunno about hearing or seeing them. I know some people seem to be able to see me when cloaked. I know when I am very close to a cloaker and I mean very very close, I will see a faint outline of them. I mentioned this to a clan mate and he said he never sees it. So I dunno, I see it sometimes, some times I don't. So I dunno if people are hacking, whether its suppose to be that way or it's just a simple case of lag. All I know sometimes I can see a cloaker a short distance away from me and other times I can see someone cloak at a much closer distance and completely vanish!

I can however guestimate a cloaker's run path and spray that area to bring them out of cloak to hit again

Yenah
05-12-2013, 05:55 AM
Cloak wouldn't be an issue anymore, but PVP would be all kinds of boring then. It would officially become the blandest, least interesting shooter PVP ever.

I dunno about that.. CoD is hard to knock out as King-o-the-Ring of that category..

Calypso Atlas
05-12-2013, 05:55 AM
I dunno about hearing or seeing them. I know some people seem to be able to see me when cloaked. I know when I am very close to a cloaker and I mean very very close, I will see a faint outline of them. I mentioned this to a clan mate and he said he never sees it. So I dunno, I see it sometimes, some times I don't. So I dunno if people are hacking, whether its suppose to be that way or it's just a simple case of lag. All I know sometimes I can see a cloaker a short distance away from me and other times I can see someone cloak at a much closer distance and completely vanish!

I can however guestimate a cloaker's run path and spray that area to bring them out of cloak to hit again

Do you play on the PS3, XBox, or PC? I play on the PC and have my graphics set to medium plus I use to play Planetside 2 and their cloak was in a similar manner where the enviorment was blurry where they are at.

Anderson
05-12-2013, 05:57 AM
I dunno about that.. CoD is hard to knock out as King-o-the-Ring of that category..

I haven't played Call of Duty so I can't be sure, but I get the impression it still has at least more than two guns :p

Jack Johnson
05-12-2013, 06:01 AM
Let me say this - if there was a perk that let you see stealthers at 5/10/15 meters, everyone would have that perk. That says to me that cloak/shotgun is ridiculous. Players should shimmer while stealthed similar to Halo active camo, Metal Gear stealth camo, etc. Why stealth is true invisibility when it confers all sorts of other bonuses and has the lowest cooldown of all EGO powers, I don't know.

Anderson
05-12-2013, 06:04 AM
Let me say this - if there was a perk that let you see stealthers at 5/10/15 meters, everyone would have that perk. That says to me that cloak/shotgun is ridiculous. Players should shimmer while stealthed similar to Halo active camo, Metal Gear stealth camo, etc. Why stealth is true invisibility when it confers all sorts of other bonuses and has the lowest cooldown of all EGO powers, I don't know.

But Cloak already does have a shimmer effect, and there already is a perk that reveals the locations of Cloaked enemies.

Yenah
05-12-2013, 06:06 AM
I haven't played Call of Duty so I can't be sure, but I get the impression it still has at least more than two guns :p

This is true, maybe I am just getting calloused towards every mmo forum having people whining about this.. any game where there is a stealth class or stealth ability, the moment PvP comes into play, its insane how much crying goes on about it.. do I use cloak? Sometimes.. I also have been trying to use Overcharge, its fun.. people are forgetting that a Decoy specific Perk also can pop people out of cloak. Its not perfect, but chances are, if you pop it, you're likely going to be ruining some poor Cloak users day, according to these forums, since apparently EVERYONE is cloaked.

Jack Johnson
05-12-2013, 06:09 AM
But Cloak already does have a shimmer effect

No, it doesn't. Cloak is literal invisibility in PvP, the player isn't rendered even if they're full on sprinting until they shoot or if you manage to hit them while wildly spraying. Nothing is on your screen.

ShyGuySpirit
05-12-2013, 06:37 AM
No sniping? Lame.

Might as well take every weapon out and fight with words with the non-existence chat box.

Good Headset, Using Minimap and Player Skill beats cloak shotgunner any day.

NIKOLA
05-12-2013, 06:40 AM
I use blur and +movement perks.
In PVP maps i find that movement is the name of the game. Hug the terrain, don't run in straight lines, do not stop. Keep moving and eventually you will see someone uncloak and attack. Thats when you jump in, usually result in + points for rescue or avenger.


If you get jumped by a cloaker,
Rear guard and Escape artist. Drop grenade. If blur is up i pop it. Cloaker doesn't get a kill, and revealed his/her position to minimap and visually to those around. If you don't double back and kill, this usually results in assist pts.

Anderson
05-12-2013, 06:45 AM
Yeah, Blur is way more annoying than Cloak, but I guess it's the psychological aspect:

When someone uses Blur and kills me without me being able to land even a single shot on them, at least I still get to SEE them kick my ***.

Reiter
05-12-2013, 07:56 AM
No, it doesn't. Cloak is literal invisibility in PvP, the player isn't rendered even if they're full on sprinting until they shoot or if you manage to hit them while wildly spraying. Nothing is on your screen.

1. Working as intended, you are not supposed to be a neon road sign.
2. Defiance has terrible draw distance.
3. You are just terribad player, I see shadow war cloakers when I stand on the side line. You are probably so tunnel visioned on one guy that you get jumped by the other and cry that cloak needs to be more visable....yet I see them at like 20 meters when people are in shadow war.

Jack Johnson
05-12-2013, 08:25 AM
1. Working as intended, you are not supposed to be a neon road sign.
2. Defiance has terrible draw distance.
3. You are just terribad player, I see shadow war cloakers when I stand on the side line. You are probably so tunnel visioned on one guy that you get jumped by the other and cry that cloak needs to be more visable....yet I see them at like 20 meters when people are in shadow war.

Personal insults? Really? If you regularly played PC Shadow War you wouldn't insult me like that.

Cloak is literal invisibility. This is a fact. They are straight up not rendered by your PC.

What you people are probably referring to is after someone takes a shot and they're in the process of restealthing, where their character model is translucent. That's not stealthed though.

fang1192
05-12-2013, 09:15 AM
But Cloak already does have a shimmer effect, and there already is a perk that reveals the locations of Cloaked enemies.

Ha, no it doesnt. And that perk is beyond useless.



1. Working as intended, you are not supposed to be a neon road sign.
2. Defiance has terrible draw distance.
3. You are just terribad player, I see shadow war cloakers when I stand on the side line. You are probably so tunnel visioned on one guy that you get jumped by the other and cry that cloak needs to be more visable....yet I see them at like 20 meters when people are in shadow war.

1. Yes it is working as intended. It is still overpowered though. By going full invisible you completely take out the opponents skill.
2. That only emphasizes the issue.
3. Personal insults are the last bastion of people without a solid argument. And by sidelines are you in the Shadow War or are you one of those Barneys? Because if youre a barney you can see everyone as if they were your teammate.

Let me ask everyone a question.

If complete invisibility and high burst damage is not overpowered, why then, did the developers see fit to give Dark Matter Snipers a more visible cloak, a huge laser they uncloak to use before they shoot, and several sound clips they play before, during, and after cloaking? Even if you do get shot, you immediately face the direction of the shot.

Jack Johnson
05-12-2013, 09:45 AM
Ha, no it doesnt. And that perk is beyond useless.



1. Yes it is working as intended. It is still overpowered though. By going full invisible you completely take out the opponents skill.
2. That only emphasizes the issue.
3. Personal insults are the last bastion of people without a solid argument. And by sidelines are you in the Shadow War or are you one of those Barneys? Because if youre a barney you can see everyone as if they were your teammate.

Let me ask everyone a question.

If complete invisibility and high burst damage is not overpowered, why then, did the developers see fit to give Dark Matter Snipers a more visible cloak, a huge laser they uncloak to use before they shoot, and several sound clips they play before, during, and after cloaking? Even if you do get shot, you immediately face the direction of the shot.

Let me just clarify that I don't think stealth should be anywhere near as bad as Dark Matter cloak, but the fact that there are zero signs of the stealther is awful. No shimmer, no cast shadow, no other downsides, with only one form of stealth detection in the game on the worst EGO in PvP. Speeds up shield recharge, increases damage dealt (with perk), with the lowest cooldown in the game out of all EGOs, it is an absolute joke.

Chemikz
05-12-2013, 10:05 AM
Cloak needs to have its 'instant shield' nerfed in PvP, but not in PvE. To be honest I believe cloak should halt the recovery of all health/shields when activated when flagged for PvP. Also, cloak needs to have a shorter duration and a longer cooldown in PvP.

I believe Cloak functions fine in PvE however.

Misto29
05-19-2013, 11:16 PM
Now I have noticed a lot of people talking about shotguns and infectors, along with cloaks in PVP and Shadow Wars. I have finally came up with an ideal to fix all of that and here is what the Devs need to do. They need to make it that every time you log into a PVP or Shadow War, that you spawn with a pistol and Assult Rifle with the exact same stats and no one can use any mods on them of any type.

Oh and let's not forget that when you log into one or the other you shouldn't be able to use Perks. Now if we did these few things, the Devs would no longer have to nerf weapons and everyone would be on the same playing field where it's all based off your skill. Now that I have said my two cents, please feel free to speak your mind. Good or bad I know a few out there will rant about how stupid this post is. So let the nice comments flows and the flamers rant and rave. :cool:


Hey what about this post???? If I wanted a debate I would have gone next door! I came here for some abuse!

A s0t
05-19-2013, 11:49 PM
Now I have noticed a lot of people talking about shotguns and infectors, along with cloaks in PVP and Shadow Wars. I have finally came up with an ideal to fix all of that and here is what the Devs need to do. They need to make it that every time you log into a PVP or Shadow War, that you spawn with a pistol and Assult Rifle with the exact same stats and no one can use any mods on them of any type.

Oh and let's not forget that when you log into one or the other you shouldn't be able to use Perks. Now if we did these few things, the Devs would no longer have to nerf weapons and everyone would be on the same playing field where it's all based off your skill. Now that I have said my two cents, please feel free to speak your mind. Good or bad I know a few out there will rant about how stupid this post is. So let the nice comments flows and the flamers rant and rave. :cool:

cant we just play pyramid? it a game on the other show

Misto29
06-22-2013, 02:25 PM
cant we just play pyramid? it a game on the other show

If only life were that simple.

rich2p
06-22-2013, 02:55 PM
Cloak wouldn't be an issue anymore, but PVP would be all kinds of boring then. It would officially become the blandest, least interesting shooter PVP ever.

Instead it is currently the worst PvP I have ever played with no improvement or active cheat monitoring. If it is so god why does it take an hour to fill Shadow Wars on a Saturday morning. It would be even worse if you did not need PvP for your episode completion.l

divot2001
06-22-2013, 04:55 PM
I wouldn't have a problem with their being a "vanilla" layout available to everyone so that players new to PVP had a working build until they acquired the right guns/shields. But we shouldn't be forced to us them.

Mercy Killing
06-22-2013, 05:20 PM
I wouldn't have a problem with their being a "vanilla" layout available to everyone so that players new to PVP had a working build until they acquired the right guns/shields. But we shouldn't be forced to us them.



...."right guns/shields"? Frak. If I want to use an assault rifle and BMG, it should be just as viable as a shotgun and infector. We shouldn't have "right" guns, they should all have merits and drawbacks.

X64
06-22-2013, 06:05 PM
Or have another separate tree for PVP, just like uniform does. No Cloak and other BS.

dominad
06-22-2013, 06:24 PM
Cloak wouldn't be an issue anymore, but PVP would be all kinds of boring then. It would officially become the blandest, least interesting shooter PVP ever.

PvP is already boring only pay it for the contracts and pursuits. Its not a challenge or fun for anyone into real gunfire simulation.

Misto29
06-25-2013, 06:43 AM
PvP is already boring only pay it for the contracts and pursuits. Its not a challenge or fun for anyone into real gunfire simulation.

But it's not a real gunfire simulation, it's a game. :p

divot2001
06-25-2013, 08:51 AM
...."right guns/shields"? Frak. If I want to use an assault rifle and BMG, it should be just as viable as a shotgun and infector. We shouldn't have "right" guns, they should all have merits and drawbacks.

I didn't say everyone had to use it. Just that a viable starter build for new players who had not acquired PVP calibre weapons and shields would make it so that players would join up. Use whatever the hell you want spaz.

treadingwater
06-25-2013, 08:55 AM
PvP is already boring only pay it for the contracts and pursuits. Its not a challenge or fun for anyone into real gunfire simulation.

It's very disappointing in that regard, and pretty much is anti-twitch gaming in every regard. Most times you run through a hallway or around a corner and you expect to randomly die to a swarm of infector bugs or grenades spammed in random directions. I tried it once myself just spamming grenade launcher shots into frays or down hallways and ended up 9 kills, 3 deaths for that game and a bunch of assists. It's just not fun, though.

Mercy Killing
06-25-2013, 09:22 AM
I didn't say everyone had to use it. Just that a viable starter build for new players who had not acquired PVP calibre weapons and shields would make it so that players would join up. Use whatever the hell you want spaz.

Except that an assault rifle when you are ego 50 has the very same stats as when you're ego 1000. The only difference is nano abilities, and those can be modded in. The stats of the guns never change throughout the game, only the bonuses do. At least, I'm fairly certain they don't, as I'm not ego 5000 yet, but so far, nothing about the stats have changed.

So I'm confused as to what you mean by "PvP caliber".

Also, the point I was trying to make is there should be NO "right" build/perk/bonus combo. It should -all- be effective and/or have drawbacks. This way, there's no "elitism" or "flavor of the month" builds. It becomes a game of skill, then and not one of "who can spend the most time grinding away" having the advantage.

chilipino
06-25-2013, 09:37 AM
The problem with bringing your PvE gear & Perks into PvP is you're going to generally have a small population (has "optimal PvP gear") of your players stomping on the majority of the players (not so high EGO and/or those hated by the RNG lockbox gods).

Given two players with relatively equal skill, it undermines PvP integrity when you have a system that gives an advantage to one of them because they got lucky on a lockbox pull or have one more perk slot unlocked.

This artificial performance gap is exacerbated by the extreme difficulty of balancing the same set of gear between PvE and PvP. There will always be an "OP" setup of gear & perks.

Having a standardized set of weapons (some unlocked and others you unlock through some kind of PvE mechanic like... weapon skill or pursuits for an example) and no perks/powers should make PvP more skill-based and accessible/enjoyable to a larger population of players.

IMO, either Trion takes PvP seriously (there are many examples of systems that more-or-less work) or PvP will continue to shrink towards a tiny, hardcore population.

divot2001
06-25-2013, 09:39 AM
Ever use the weapons from the hotspots? Those are non standard and give you offensive firepower that regardless of your perks should let new players get in a few good hits even if they don't necessarily have the same surviveability as 4000 EGO players.

I'd be stoked to have the shotgun from Moonshine Shack or the pistol from that hotshot in northwest San Francisco.

DarknessEyes PT
06-25-2013, 10:28 AM
Just remove pvp... lol
I used to pvp with infector, assault rifle and overcharge at begin.
Now i use assault rifle, a shotgun and cloak...

infectors: Just run run run... if you run the bugs cant damage you and the weapon only deals 4 damage.
Shotguns: well... get one too...

Most of people use cloak but you now c a lots of people using other abilities to.

About the ego level and the perks imo makes no difference, if your ego lvl 100 and ur skilled enough you can kill a ego 5000 :)