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View Full Version : Any difference between Normal and epic items?



Thrasher
05-12-2013, 09:13 AM
The only think i have noticed is the bonuses, but the stats seems to be unchanged? Then why would i waste my time finding an epic item, if it only gives me a few bonuses im not even interested in?

Zorlond
05-12-2013, 09:20 AM
The bonuses are largely randomly generated. You might just come across one that's bonused-out like a gold mine.

Thrasher
05-12-2013, 09:52 AM
The bonuses are largely randomly generated. You might just come across one that's bonused-out like a gold mine. But the stats will always remain unchanged? Like the bolt action rifle that does around 1200dmg will always be at that amount of dmg?

omega32x
05-12-2013, 10:24 AM
Well at lower ego ratings you wont see much but the synergies are still good depending on what the stats give you. It will always for the most part be better than normal weapons not for damage out put but for synergy bonuses. The higher the ego the more synergies you get as well on your epics and legendaries each time too. The only synergies i ever find usless are the melee ones lol.

Major Nelson
05-12-2013, 10:27 AM
no not really unless you have the same synergy mods to activate the bonus synergies listed on the weapon i have an orange saw and a white and there exactly the same so the loot system is broken

Thrasher
05-13-2013, 04:58 AM
no not really unless you have the same synergy mods to activate the bonus synergies listed on the weapon i have an orange saw and a white and there exactly the same so the loot system is broken Not sure if it is broken or just a really weird system they have.

Fakinell
05-13-2013, 06:05 AM
no not really unless you have the same synergy mods to activate the bonus synergies listed on the weapon i have an orange saw and a white and there exactly the same so the loot system is broken

It's not broken. This is how they wanted it. God knows why.

Fatalmephisto
05-13-2013, 06:12 AM
One thing i noticed is that Green will sometimes give you 1 random bonus or none. While blue gives 2 or just 1, Purple gives 3 or 2 and legendary give 3 or 2 i believe. Legendaries i noticed tend to give better bonus that are higher level mods. Plus go after the bonus you want. If you prefer Fire rate, then find your type of weapon in legendary form and get those bonus on it.

For me, my pistol has x0.95 reload and 10% EGO recharge on full reload. Both of those work amazingly well for my build since my build is all around fast reload and easier ego recharge.

loops73
05-13-2013, 06:22 AM
orange weapons are not better than any other color...I cannot believe people are paying 100k to have one.Most blues/purples are actually better in my opinion.

Racheakt
05-13-2013, 07:13 AM
One thing i noticed is that Green will sometimes give you 1 random bonus or none. While blue gives 2 or just 1, Purple gives 3 or 2 and legendary give 3 or 2 i believe. Legendaries i noticed tend to give better bonus that are higher level mods. Plus go after the bonus you want. If you prefer Fire rate, then find your type of weapon in legendary form and get those bonus on it.

For me, my pistol has x0.95 reload and 10% EGO recharge on full reload. Both of those work amazingly well for my build since my build is all around fast reload and easier ego recharge.

Something like this.

I don't think it is broken, i think it is different than the typical MMO power creep.

I in my observation, mods increase with rarity, i.e a white scope is -.1, green, -.2, and a blue is -.3.

I have not confirmed myself if this is the case with weapons (I suspect it is), i just know that the number of bonuses increase with rarity.

I currently have a max level AR that has -.5 accuracy bonus, and i have added a -.3 scope to it, and have a blue crit-multi barrel. -- I can go full auto on the smallest of weak spots.

The point being increasing damage is not all about seen the "base" damage number change in this game, it is about how much consistent damage you can put on target.

IGears
05-13-2013, 07:19 AM
no real difference except maybe Reload Speed, Rate of Fire, and Accuracy. but those difference are so small its hard to notice a difference. I blame PvP Balancing for no real differences

Thrasher
05-13-2013, 07:34 AM
Something like this.

I don't think it is broken, i think it is different than the typical MMO power creep.

I in my observation, mods increase with rarity, i.e a white scope is -.1, green, -.2, and a blue is -.3.

I have not confirmed myself if this is the case with weapons (I suspect it is), i just know that the number of bonuses increase with rarity.

I currently have a max level AR that has -.5 accuracy bonus, and i have added a -.3 scope to it, and have a blue crit-multi barrel. -- I can go full auto on the smallest of weak spots.

The point being increasing damage is not all about seen the "base" damage number change in this game, it is about how much consistent damage you can put on target. So maybe they added all these bonuses to "add" more damage? If you catch my meaning. Better accuracy makes it easier to hit the target which means it does more damage. Maybe thats the meaning of it?

Thrasher
05-13-2013, 07:39 AM
no real difference except maybe Reload Speed, Rate of Fire, and Accuracy. but those difference are so small its hard to notice a difference. I blame PvP Balancing for no real differences Not sure if its the PvP's fault but i dont think they should balance the system like that. Maybe it works, maybe it IS balanced but it also takes alot of the fun of grinding for better gear as theres no real purpose for it. well, other than a few bonuses. It doesnt give you that awesome feeling of finding an awesome weapon like in other games.

IGears
05-13-2013, 07:52 AM
Not sure if its the PvP's fault but i dont think they should balance the system like that. Maybe it works, maybe it IS balanced but it also takes alot of the fun of grinding for better gear as theres no real purpose for it. well, other than a few bonuses. It doesnt give you that awesome feeling of finding an awesome weapon like in other games.

yeah i hear you.. i only get excited when its a weapon that i want to use for leveling my skills up.

pyrolm
05-13-2013, 08:27 AM
One thing i noticed is that Green will sometimes give you 1 random bonus or none. While blue gives 2 or just 1, Purple gives 3 or 2 and legendary give 3 or 2 i believe. Legendaries i noticed tend to give better bonus that are higher level mods. Plus go after the bonus you want. If you prefer Fire rate, then find your type of weapon in legendary form and get those bonus on it.

I used to think this was the case until I got 2 Orange Vot Blaster pistols with no bonuses...just a synergy. TWICE! Just recently I found a VOT Blaster pistol that was blue and it had one bonus. I don't know if they are bugged or what but it sucks.

ratt707
05-13-2013, 08:53 AM
If it has good mods slots, I don't care what color it is.

Thrasher
05-13-2013, 09:01 AM
If it has good mods slots, I don't care what color it is. Not sure what what you mean? You can add mod slots in the matrix?

IGears
05-13-2013, 09:03 AM
Not sure what what you mean? You can add mod slots in the matrix?

at higher ego rating, more weapon drop will have all the slots available. Not all, but most.

Chevota
05-13-2013, 09:03 AM
Does no one notice they made this game to be EQUAL no matter the EGO...

The weapons are designed to give Ego 100 player the same ability/chance as Ego 5000. Legendaries are there to give the EGO 5k a boost, but not overpower them to the point the EGO 100 has no chance... No one says you HAVE to use a Legendary, no one is saying you HAVE to buy a Legendary...

Put it this way, Ego 100 will not have AR skill 20. but me @ 2300, i do. So i get all 20 lvl bonuses. max out the gun +1 Bonus. Thats 21 bonuses. Synergy!, that can add 4 more bonuses, 25. You can also find them with say 3 random Bonuses (Acc, Stowed Clip Reload, Mag size, etc)... 28 BONUS stats... Not to mention the Gun's Nano + Melee Nano...

Why do ppl pay 100k for Legendaries?... ^^^ Say you are lvl 500, and you do somehow have 20 AR... its still 8 Bonus + 2 Nano vs 0.

A great BOOST, but not too overpowering that low-EGO cant hang with high-EGO.

Combo Breaker
05-13-2013, 09:07 AM
Epeen. The more Orange weapons the larger the Epeen.

Kiserai
05-13-2013, 10:36 AM
It's weird to me that people will notice that a gun has better accuracy, reload, and rate of fire yet somehow not realize that, in a shooter, that means the weapon is visibly and unequivocally better. O.o

Thrasher
05-13-2013, 10:43 AM
It's weird to me that people will notice that a gun has better accuracy, reload, and rate of fire yet somehow not realize that, in a shooter, that means the weapon is visibly and unequivocally better. O.o
They could at least make the weapon more unique than the others. How? I dont know but im sure that theres a lot of things they could do to make it more fun grinding weapons.

Orge Lambart
05-13-2013, 10:52 AM
none at all, like everything else in this game it's bland and uninteresting, I'm really starting to get tired of this game, can't wait for Freight Yard to go back up so I can max out my achievements and never play this game again.

Kiserai
05-13-2013, 10:53 AM
They could at least make the weapon more unique than the others. How? I dont know but im sure that theres a lot of things they could do to make it more fun grinding weapons. You mean cosmetic stuff? Oh yeah, that would definitely be a plus.

Cavadus
05-13-2013, 11:06 AM
It's weird to me that people will notice that a gun has better accuracy, reload, and rate of fire yet somehow not realize that, in a shooter, that means the weapon is visibly and unequivocally better. O.o

I think players primarily versed in RPGs fail to recognize this the most. They're fixated on the damage stat and conditioned to assume that higher level/EGO stuff automatically means more raw damage.

They could look at two similar weapons and though one might have a 20% faster reload, 0.010 better accuracy, and +5% rate of fire they'll just see that equal damage value and QQ about it. For whatever reason they generally fail to make connection that those bonus secondary stats greatly influence effective DPS.

Those types have been complaining about the horizontal gear progression and inclusive play since alpha. They'll always complain about it. Better they move on to a normal RPG like TOR or Wildstar IMO.

Orge Lambart
05-13-2013, 11:12 AM
I think players primarily versed in RPGs fail to recognize this the most. They're fixated on the damage stat and conditioned to assume that higher level/EGO stuff automatically means more raw damage.

They could look at two similar weapons and though one might have a 20% faster reload, 0.010 better accuracy, and +5% rate of fire they'll just see that equal damage value and QQ about it. For whatever reason they generally fail to make connection that those bonus secondary stats greatly influence effective DPS.

Those types have been complaining about the horizontal gear progression and inclusive play since alpha. They'll always complain about it. Better they move on to a normal RPG like TOR or Wildstar IMO.

Sure that would be a valid argument if it wasn't for the fact those bonus stats also reside on non legendary weapons, at the same % increases as they appear on Legendary weapons. The weapon system was a poorly thought out and poorly designed aspect of the game. Unless something changes like you get 10 bonus stats on a legendary at max ego, the differences in Regular to Legendary weapons is non existent.

Right now on Orange weapons I get 3 bonus stats sometimes, sometimes 2 bonus stats, on purple weapons I buy in the vendor shops I get 2 bonus stats. On faction vendors the purples have 3 bonus stats.

One blue weapons you get one or two bonus stats.

So where is this major boon that Orange weapons have, they don't.

Kiserai
05-13-2013, 11:18 AM
You don't find the same number and quality of bonuses, on average, from randomly-generated greens/blues as you do for oranges. That is patently false.

Dalthium
05-13-2013, 11:20 AM
The system is set up so high ego rated/well geared plays will be a bit better but not annihilate without a chance the low ego rating people. If the system were set up how you people seem to want anyone high ego rating would just 1 shot newer people and be near invincible from their attacks.

IGears
05-13-2013, 11:24 AM
The system is set up so high ego rated/well geared plays will be a bit better but not annihilate without a chance the low ego rating people. If the system were set up how you people seem to want anyone high ego rating would just 1 shot newer people and be near invincible from their attacks.

so why can't they have matchmaking based off EGO Rating?

Dalthium
05-13-2013, 11:28 AM
so why can't they have matchmaking based off EGO Rating?

Slower queues, worse overall player experience.

Cavadus
05-13-2013, 11:30 AM
So where is this major boon that Orange weapons have, they don't.

Why do you expect them to have that at all...? Because traditional MMORPGs have conditioned you to think this way, right?

Where was it ever stated that oranges were designed to roflstomp all other weapon rarities? Nowhere, right? That's just an assumption you made.

As a whole oranges are generally the best weapons. They typically have the most bonuses attached. Sometimes the RNG spits out some really bad ones though and I would like to see more consistency between the rarities. If you're also after that then I agree with you there.

I'd like to see something like:

White - No synergies, no bonuses, no nano.
Green - No synergies, one bonus, possible nano.
Blue - [2] synergy, one bonus OR two bonuses, nano.
Purple - [2] synergy, two bonuses, nano.
Orange - [4] synergy, three bonuses, nano.

I picked up a legendary FRC Heavy Assault Carbine the other day and it has no nano, no bonuses, and a [4] synergy. The weapon is horrible. This is obviously not supposed to be an orange weapon.

IGears
05-13-2013, 11:31 AM
Slower queues, worse overall player experience.

yeah i figured

Hithlum
05-13-2013, 11:31 AM
When you find me a white Wolfhound with 1.15 crit, 1.25 crit increased mag size and synergy, you can say that whites = oranges.

IGears
05-13-2013, 11:35 AM
I picked up a legendary FRC Heavy Assault Carbine the other day and it has no nano, no bonuses, and a [4] synergy. The weapon is horrible. This is obviously not supposed to be an orange weapon.

lol i have the same weapon that im using for skill leveling but:
Its white rarity
Has acid nano
has no Synergy
one bonus.
and all the mod slots available
Sounds like my Assault rifle is better

Cavadus
05-13-2013, 11:38 AM
Sounds like my Assault rifle is better

Yes, your white is clearly better. The one I described is the worst orange I have ever heard of. As I said in the post you quoted, on the whole oranges are generally superior but for some reason the RNG will sometimes spit out horrible oranges and great whites/greens.

Which is why I went into the whole rarity consistency thing. In the post you quoted.

Did you read it?

pyrolm
05-13-2013, 12:22 PM
Yes, your white is clearly better. The one I described is the worst orange I have ever heard of. As I said in the post you quoted, on the whole oranges are generally superior but for some reason the RNG will sometimes spit out horrible oranges and great whites/greens.

Which is why I went into the whole rarity consistency thing. In the post you quoted.

Did you read it?

Yea the way you explained it in the earlier post is how I initially thought it did work. But you quickly learn that oranges can have no bonuses and the whole system seems flawed. I was fine with the no real progression if everytime I got an orange gun it had 3 bonuses, purple 2, blue 1 or whatever you would like it to be, but I have like 7 orange weapons and only 2 of them have 3 bonuses. Consistency would solve a lot of issues for me.

Kiserai
05-13-2013, 01:51 PM
I think you have it figured out, but to reiterate, finding bad oranges doesn't mean they aren't designed to be better on average, just that you have bad luck and the system might benefit from more consistency.

Thrasher
05-13-2013, 01:58 PM
When you find me a white Wolfhound with 1.15 crit, 1.25 crit increased mag size and synergy, you can say that whites = oranges.
exactly. why even bother having rarity if theres no difference between them.

Orge Lambart
05-13-2013, 02:04 PM
Why do you expect them to have that at all...? Because traditional MMORPGs have conditioned you to think this way, right?

Where was it ever stated that oranges were designed to roflstomp all other weapon rarities? Nowhere, right? That's just an assumption you made.

As a whole oranges are generally the best weapons. They typically have the most bonuses attached. Sometimes the RNG spits out some really bad ones though and I would like to see more consistency between the rarities. If you're also after that then I agree with you there.

I'd like to see something like:

White - No synergies, no bonuses, no nano.
Green - No synergies, one bonus, possible nano.
Blue - [2] synergy, one bonus OR two bonuses, nano.
Purple - [2] synergy, two bonuses, nano.
Orange - [4] synergy, three bonuses, nano.

I picked up a legendary FRC Heavy Assault Carbine the other day and it has no nano, no bonuses, and a [4] synergy. The weapon is horrible. This is obviously not supposed to be an orange weapon.

I expect you to see a difference between a white and an Orange weapon, the worst orange weapon should still be much better than the best white weapon. The fact that you have zero variance and even bonus stats aren't better on Orange weapons, you pointed it out yourself, some orange weapons are worse than white weapons. What is the point of having rarity at all if nothing special exist between the white and orange weapons.

It would be like ordering a chicken parm dinner at a five dollar hole in the wall restaurant and it being the exact same thing as ordering a chicken parm dinner at a 500 dollar a plate 5 star restaurant. Do you see where I'm going like this. Oranges should be the best weapons bottom line, if not base stats than atleast via bonuses and synergies.

Right now it's almost like the analogy I pointed out, Orange weapons are rare, then you get slapped in the face by pulling out a garbage one.

Kiserai
05-13-2013, 02:59 PM
exactly. why even bother having rarity if theres no difference between them. You misunderstood him. What he described is possible for a purple or orange but not a white.

Badblade
05-13-2013, 03:07 PM
no not really unless you have the same synergy mods to activate the bonus synergies listed on the weapon i have an orange saw and a white and there exactly the same so the loot system is broken

Just an FYI... the loot system that you call "broken" is the same loot system that lets me, at 1200 EGO, play seamlessly with my buddy that is 200 EGO and my brother that is 350 EGO.

It's not broken, it's balanced. If the loot system worked how you want it to, nobody would be able to play the game with each other, and the map would be broken into areas based on EGO level.

Think before you post.

Jeff Moreau
05-14-2013, 01:12 AM
Even a orange weapon with level 4 synergy (best thing you can get) will be like 10% more powerfull than the weapon you get at the start.
The weapon leveling system isn't the issue because there isn't one.
You can put on the same mods on your first weapons than on a legendary level 4000 weapon...and the damage will be the same.

Weapon damage leveling up would make this game much more intresting because it would keep the players searching for new weapons , not just because the game says you won't get any more exp (stupid system also) but because they would feel rewarded for playing that long.

More and more players do not bother to change weapons anymore because there is just no point.
Level 8 sniper rifle skill ? critical +1% which makes like 12 damage point.
Wow.

Tango80
05-14-2013, 01:29 AM
Why do you expect them to have that at all...? Because traditional MMORPGs have conditioned you to think this way, right?

Where was it ever stated that oranges were designed to roflstomp all other weapon rarities? Nowhere, right? That's just an assumption you made.

As a whole oranges are generally the best weapons. They typically have the most bonuses attached. Sometimes the RNG spits out some really bad ones though and I would like to see more consistency between the rarities. If you're also after that then I agree with you there.

I'd like to see something like:

White - No synergies, no bonuses, no nano.
Green - No synergies, one bonus, possible nano.
Blue - [2] synergy, one bonus OR two bonuses, nano.
Purple - [2] synergy, two bonuses, nano.
Orange - [4] synergy, three bonuses, nano.

I picked up a legendary FRC Heavy Assault Carbine the other day and it has no nano, no bonuses, and a [4] synergy. The weapon is horrible. This is obviously not supposed to be an orange weapon.

What Ego level are you at. Because right now the at my current ego rating i'm seeing pretty decent blues and purples. Oranges are like you said Hit or miss. Mostly Miss but then again I haven't picked up a decent orange that wasn't a rocket launcher.

Tiala
05-14-2013, 04:12 AM
It's why I love this game and its great to see all areas of the map always being used for various different reasons - unlike other games where the areas become completely redundant after a expansion.

Hithlum
05-14-2013, 04:17 AM
Jeff, you math is wrong crit+1% will give you around 30-50 damage for crits on sniper rifle depending on model, bonuses and perks.

Super NooberTrooper
05-14-2013, 04:44 AM
Make's great ark salvage! I know that much! Max out that weapon and recieve +250 white, +500 green+ 750 purple, and i would imagine +1000 for orange.
There you have it, problem solved :P