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View Full Version : Where Sci-Fi lived up to their end.. and trion didnt.



slipfeed
05-16-2013, 11:10 AM
First off, I'd like to say I had a lot of fun playing this game. As a stand alone product it was at least as good as an indy steam game downloaded for $25.00 US. Considering that it at least fakes being a multiplayer game well enough to pass muster, I consider the box price money well spent.

Watching the show after playing the game to EGO 1,000 and finishing the story line, I cant help but notice that the writers of the show went out of their way, bent over backwards and did a somersault to set up concepts and area's that could be used to make a game that ties directly into the show.

For instance, the defense grid going down.
Perfect reason to hire mercenaries.

The pass that acts as a natural funnel to the towns gates is a perfect place to set up the main social hub for the game.

For area's of operation you have old Saint Louis, the badlands, the forests and the storm divide. All very interesting locations with huge potential as game zones.

They set up for two factions. The voltanis collective and the earth republic, with a possible independent third faction.

For enemy's the show has given us raiders (spirit riders), hellbugs, 99'rs, and the volge. Along with an interesting intrigue indicating that there may be another player in the game.

Even now we have a rail line being set up between defiance and new york, and arms deals going on under the table with the voltanis collective. An open door for a future expansion if the game had been based in Saint Louis.

And then there is the weird arc tech in the mine shaft....

The writers of this show handed Trion a video game. All Trion needed to do was make it.

What we got instead is basically starship troopers lite beta, with no towns, one kind of "randomly generated terrain" zone, and a crapload of hellbugs.

I hope this situation does not deter other television media production company's from trying to cross over and into actively running mmo's.

But I gotta say in this case. Sci-fi got burned.

ironhands
05-16-2013, 11:16 AM
how does it fake being a multiplayer game? Are you implying that the people you're playing with are bots?

How do you know that the rail line isn't future expansion INTO st louis from the bay area?

there are 99ers in the game, as well as hellbugs, and volge are incoming soon(and should already be there, but were delayed). spirit riders aren't really meant to be enemies. the game has dark matter which aren't in the show

Samhael
05-16-2013, 11:18 AM
I want the game you described!

Cutlass Jack
05-16-2013, 11:22 AM
SyFy didnt bend over backwards to set up things for the game in St. Louis. It was the reverse. They stopped them. Trion wasn't allowed to base the game in St. Louis.

slipfeed
05-16-2013, 11:23 AM
I'm indicating that the people i'm playing with rarely if ever require or notice my assistance or actions any more than I require or notice theirs. They are there. Interaction not required.

All I know is what I know, and making decisions or forming opinions based on things I might not know is a path to complete insanity.

slipfeed
05-16-2013, 11:24 AM
"SyFy didnt bend over backwards to set up things for the game in St. Louis. It was the reverse. They stopped them. Trion wasn't allowed to base the game in St. Louis. "

Citation?
Source?
Confirmation?

SteveMND
05-16-2013, 11:34 AM
From almost the beginning, the two were intended to be taking place in separate locations, but within the same shared universe, and with some crossover. Trion didn't just 'decide' to ignore St. Louis. Besides, they needed a place where they could do their own thing, to some degree. The show would be a hell of a lot different if it were swarming with thousands of EGO-using Ark hunters!

T_Archangel
05-16-2013, 11:42 AM
I was under the general impression that the 2 were working together... hence Nolan heading there and Rynn heading here. Syfy advertises the game like gang busters so seems to me that it's collaborative. We see people complain about game lacks this and that... here's a thought that just occurred to me... what if some of (not all of course) of the issues we see are due to Syfy possibly limiting Trion in what they can do? Content like the Volge, locations able to be used, weapon content allowed, vehicles, character races allowed to be used, etc. Im sure Syfy wants creative input as they hold the reigns to the license overall so maybe things like that aren't Trion's fault, but Syfy's? Again this isn't pointing fingers and am just speculation but people say to Trion constantly that they saw "this" in the show, so why not in the game... possibly Syfy hasn't given their ok? I dunno. Just a thought...

Anyway, I'll keep sitting here and enjoying the ride best as I can :)

Shogo_Yahagi
05-16-2013, 11:43 AM
How do you know that the rail line isn't future expansion INTO st louis from the bay area?
The proposed mag-lev line runs from Yuma, through Oklahoma City and Defiance, to New York.

http://en.defiance-wiki.com/wiki/images/8/8f/North_America.jpg

They also talk about the Mag-Lev line in one of the data recorders.

ironhands
05-16-2013, 11:45 AM
The proposed mag-lev line runs from Yuma, through Oklahoma City and Defiance, to New York.

http://en.defiance-wiki.com/wiki/images/8/8f/North_America.jpg

They also talk about the Mag-Lev line in one of the data recorders.

Could still end up being the link. I do feel that at some point the game will head there - likely when the show has run its course and the game's still running, if it works out that way.

DaMaJaDiZ
05-16-2013, 11:50 AM
How is what's going on in St Louis a setup for what's happening on the left coast? They did what they were supposed to do for the lore of that area and to service their own story completely independent of any game context that wasn't explicitly mandated.
If memory serves, it was Syfy that claimed St Louis as their own territory to work with for the show.
Things could most certainly be linked a lot tighter between the two, but I don't believe that is all on Trion. And lets be real, for the collaboration to be as young as it is, they've done a pretty solid job so far.

ItISLupus
05-16-2013, 11:50 AM
SyFy didnt bend over backwards to set up things for the game in St. Louis. It was the reverse. They stopped them. Trion wasn't allowed to base the game in St. Louis.

This, Syfy told Trion what they could and could not do. The writers of the show have their plans and the writers of the game have theirs. Both teams work in tandem to decide where the game and show will cross and how. Imo, both teams did a very good job in setting up the story. (if you listened to the data recorders.)

Myst
05-16-2013, 11:52 AM
Most of the time the developers are limited though like others have stated despite how visionary you may be you are confined to the limits that are set before you. Just like an artists drawing for a game they may have a whole bunch of ideas as vast as the universe but they must constrain them down to something that falls in line with the world. Just like we won't see an Elf in Defiance nor a drow ( :( )

Zemenar
05-16-2013, 11:54 AM
Honestly I didnt expect MUCH crossover for the first season (or at least not til the last 2-3 episodes of the season). Most of it should have been filmed or set in stone before the game came out to expand on the Defiance Universe. However, the mag-lev line is something that the show, game, and a few Across the Badlands episodes have mentioned time and time, I just cant see it NOT being put into the game between S1 and S2. Now that Defiance has a 2nd season coming this is where I expect to see a lot of possible crossing over events occuring during the summer so they can start filming it. I also expect that enough events occur during S1 that would make sense for ark hunters to show up in St. Louis and give us an excuse to have the town in the game.

This all assumes Trion is able to fix the issues they're working on and enough ppl are still around (I plan to be atm at least heh)

Thod
05-16-2013, 12:05 PM
Defiance was a co-op project. This has been said from day one. The Game and the Show have been developed together. If one fails the other can continue. This has been said in all of the pre-release interviews on Defiance that I have watched or read. Also being in the Alpha we were told the same thing that the show and the game were going to be having elements together and apart from each other, which they do.

The only thing that Trion has not done is release a functional VIOP system or the complete patch on the 15th of april, as they posted or the 2nd bigger patch 2 weeks later.

ironhands
05-16-2013, 12:05 PM
Most of the time the developers are limited though like others have stated despite how visionary you may be you are confined to the limits that are set before you. Just like an artists drawing for a game they may have a whole bunch of ideas as vast as the universe but they must constrain them down to something that falls in line with the world. Just like we won't see an Elf in Defiance nor a drow ( :( )

Castithans are pretty drow :P As far as elves though, no, BUT, we still might see unicorns in PvP right? I'm sure I saw that as an upcoming feature in a dev blog! :P

T_Archangel
05-16-2013, 12:09 PM
Castithans are pretty drow :P As far as elves though, no, BUT, we still might see unicorns in PvP right? I'm sure I saw that as an upcoming feature in a dev blog! :P

I heard giant Hellbug-dragons that were tameable and then ridable each equipped with a full Apache gunship load-out (LOL J/K)... BTW nice Space Marine. Heard they were coming soon too :P j/k LMAO

ironhands
05-16-2013, 12:12 PM
I heard giant Hellbug-dragons that were tameable and then ridable each equipped with a full Apache gunship load-out (LOL J/K)... BTW nice Space Marine. Heard they were coming soon too :P j/k LMAO

"And if you suddenly see Space Unicorns in PVP matches as a result of me and the artists trying fix server crashes, don’t blame me. Just enjoy the moment of Space Unicorn-ess."

http://community.defiance.com/en/2013/04/08/day-6-improvements-improvements-improvements-niiiice-wtf/

DaMaJaDiZ
05-16-2013, 12:19 PM
"And if you suddenly see Space Unicorns in PVP matches as a result of me and the artists trying fix server crashes, don’t blame me. Just enjoy the moment of Space Unicorn-ess."

http://community.defiance.com/en/2013/04/08/day-6-improvements-improvements-improvements-niiiice-wtf/

If only. I'd welcome that without hesitation.

Cutlass Jack
05-16-2013, 12:25 PM
I'm in favor of Space Unicorns being added. Especially if I can run them down in my Challenger, blowing my horn for pun value.

Myst
05-16-2013, 12:27 PM
Castithans are pretty drow :P As far as elves though, no, BUT, we still might see unicorns in PvP right? I'm sure I saw that as an upcoming feature in a dev blog! :P

Lies! but I'd be up for some unicorns...

ironhands
05-16-2013, 12:27 PM
This, Syfy told Trion what they could and could not do. The writers of the show have their plans and the writers of the game have theirs. Both teams work in tandem to decide where the game and show will cross and how.

The game does have some say though. It was the game saying the show couldn't have horses iirc.

DaMaJaDiZ
05-16-2013, 12:32 PM
The game does have some say though. It was the game saying the show couldn't have horses iirc.

That wasn't a design choice though. That was a canned because they just couldn't do it.
That's the kind of thing that show writers tend to get pissy and resentful about.

T_Archangel
05-16-2013, 12:34 PM
I am sure they could have done it. Many games have horses in them, like Red Dead... just may not have fit in to the Defiance universe. Who knows? Probably died off like most other livestock other than Pows. LOL

ironhands
05-16-2013, 12:36 PM
That wasn't a design choice though. That was a canned because they just couldn't do it.
That's the kind of thing that show writers tend to get pissy and resentful about.

It was a split design/feasibility choice. It's a lot easier to implement a horse than a car for travel, less physics. - there've been mounts in games for years, the choice to leave out horses was because they'd die if they were shot, and you wouldn't be able to ram things very well. One of the reasons we don't have motorbikes yet as well.

DaMaJaDiZ
05-16-2013, 12:38 PM
I am sure they could have done it. Many games have horses in them, like Red Dead... just may not have fit in to the Defiance universe. Who knows? Probably died off like most other livestock other than Pows. LOL

No. The game team told the syfy crew that they couldn't do it. They've talked about this particular instance of restriction in the promo videos.

Thunderclap
05-16-2013, 12:40 PM
First off, I'd like to say I had a lot of fun playing this game. As a stand alone product it was at least as good as an indy steam game downloaded for $25.00 US. Considering that it at least fakes being a multiplayer game well enough to pass muster, I consider the box price money well spent.

Watching the show after playing the game to EGO 1,000 and finishing the story line, I cant help but notice that the writers of the show went out of their way, bent over backwards and did a somersault to set up concepts and area's that could be used to make a game that ties directly into the show.

For instance, the defense grid going down.
Perfect reason to hire mercenaries.

The pass that acts as a natural funnel to the towns gates is a perfect place to set up the main social hub for the game.

For area's of operation you have old Saint Louis, the badlands, the forests and the storm divide. All very interesting locations with huge potential as game zones.

They set up for two factions. The voltanis collective and the earth republic, with a possible independent third faction.

For enemy's the show has given us raiders (spirit riders), hellbugs, 99'rs, and the volge. Along with an interesting intrigue indicating that there may be another player in the game.

Even now we have a rail line being set up between defiance and new york, and arms deals going on under the table with the voltanis collective. An open door for a future expansion if the game had been based in Saint Louis.

And then there is the weird arc tech in the mine shaft....

The writers of this show handed Trion a video game. All Trion needed to do was make it.

What we got instead is basically starship troopers lite beta, with no towns, one kind of "randomly generated terrain" zone, and a crapload of hellbugs.

I hope this situation does not deter other television media production company's from trying to cross over and into actively running mmo's.

But I gotta say in this case. Sci-fi got burned.

I have to agree with you. All that you have stated would have made an excellent game.

DaMaJaDiZ
05-16-2013, 12:42 PM
It was a split design/feasibility choice. It's a lot easier to implement a horse than a car for travel, less physics.

It's the opposite actually. They also mentioned problem with horses navigating the vertical topography as being the primary issue, but not to derail your point that the game has influence in the show as well.

Cutlass Jack
05-16-2013, 12:43 PM
It was a split design/feasibility choice. It's a lot easier to implement a horse than a car for travel, less physics. - there've been mounts in games for years, the choice to leave out horses was because they'd die if they were shot, and you wouldn't be able to ram things very well. One of the reasons we don't have motorbikes yet as well.

Unless you get the Horse Armor DLC...:)

Thunderclap
05-16-2013, 12:45 PM
No. The game team told the syfy crew that they couldn't do it. They've talked about this particular instance of restriction in the promo videos.
Since I have worked in Gaming and specifically the type of Gaming that defiance is, I will clear the bS away for that statement. They couldn't do it with the money they had and the skill set. The game we have today no. It isn't impossible. Second Life http://www.secondlife.com/‎ has horses. Rideable horses. There are a massive presistant environment with 100s of blade servers. This is more of a 'we don't want to because its too hard, requires too much work and is unneeded for the crap we will hand in the future.' Sci-fi bought it because they trusted them.

3rdpig
05-16-2013, 12:45 PM
No. The game team told the syfy crew that they couldn't do it. They've talked about this particular instance of restriction in the promo videos.

Rather odd since they had no problems adding hellbug mounts to Rift. Seems like the knowledge is already inhouse.

Myst
05-16-2013, 12:46 PM
Unless you get the Horse Armor DLC...:)

Some of us want to keep our pretty ponies/Unicorns protected!

ironhands
05-16-2013, 12:49 PM
It's the opposite actually. They also mentioned problem with horses navigating the vertical topography as being the primary issue, but not to derail your point that the game has influence in the show as well.

That's also a design choice, based on limitations of their terrain design. They could have implemented horses from the dev stage, but opted not to. A horse can't boost up too steep of an incline - though sometimes I wonder about the ATV as well :P

ironhands
05-16-2013, 12:49 PM
Rather odd since they had no problems adding hellbug mounts to Rift. Seems like the knowledge is already inhouse.

can we still get that when it goes f2p? I'd really like one, but IIRC it was a limited time deal

T_Archangel
05-16-2013, 12:51 PM
Yeah if they said horses weren't doable it makes me shudder to think what else is not doable...

ElektraFaith
05-16-2013, 12:52 PM
Loves this post, I agree with about 50% of what you said. Defiance needs to add new terrains and one main town/city like in the tv show. If you check out my started thread labeled "As I sit in paradise, I notice a few things missing" it basically covers everything you just said but with more detail about what this town/city should include and so on :)

6Strummer
05-16-2013, 12:54 PM
Trion wasn't allowed to base the game in St. Louis.

From the interview I saw, SyFy wanted the show set in San Fran but settled for St Louis. Trion always wanted the game in San Fran.

I know patience isn't a common thing, but I'd say it's still too early to determine who lived up to their end and who didn't.

ironhands
05-16-2013, 12:54 PM
Yeah if they said horses weren't doable it makes me shudder to think what else is not doable...

I've been coding since I was a kid, there's nothing I hate more than people saying it's impossible to code something. There's usually a way to do it. In this game, horses are certainly doable; they just wouldn't be very useful when compared to the other vehicles we get for free, and limited in their effectiveness in combat, and mobility.

Anderson
05-16-2013, 01:01 PM
I don't think it's all that unreasonable for the design team to say "please don't add horses, it's just going to create a lot more work for us".

You kind of have to prioritize when adding features to a game, and horses probably aren't exactly leaving a huge gaping hole in the game.

T_Archangel
05-16-2013, 01:02 PM
I've been coding since I was a kid, there's nothing I hate more than people saying it's impossible to code something. There's usually a way to do it. In this game, horses are certainly doable; they just wouldn't be very useful when compared to the other vehicles we get for free, and limited in their effectiveness in combat, and mobility.

Right... I also think horses in general really don't have a place in the story...


Loves this post, I agree with about 50% of what you said. Defiance needs to add new terrains and one main town/city like in the tv show. If you check out my started thread labeled "As I sit in paradise, I notice a few things missing" it basically covers everything you just said but with more detail about what this town/city should include and so on :)

I think they should add terrains with expansions. Woods, maybe the ruined city of Frisco underground... can't really do anything too drastic seeing as the climate would have to stay similar (It's not a huge geographic area... still only on the scale of a city). I'd also like to see more of the wildlife like those bug-bear things we saw Nolan & Irisa attacked by in episode 1. What lives in the ocean in the new terraformed earth? How about those pterodactyl-like things we saw flying when we got the broad angle shot of Defiance?

Stuff like that would help add more to the whole feel of things I think...

DaMaJaDiZ
05-16-2013, 01:03 PM
Yeah if they said horses weren't doable it makes me shudder to think what else is not doable...

Doesn't exactly inspire confidence, but at least it demonstrates an ability to adapt and be flexible from both teams. That might just be the one asset that's the ace in the hole.

T_Archangel
05-16-2013, 01:05 PM
Doesn't exactly inspire confidence, but at least it demonstrates an ability to adapt and be flexible from both teams. That might just be the one asset that's the ace in the hole.

Is possible

ironhands
05-16-2013, 01:06 PM
Right... I also think horses in general really don't have a place in the story...

Game devs took more inspiration from Mad Max. Horses do make sense logistically, if any survived that is.

Shogo_Yahagi
05-16-2013, 01:09 PM
In the vid I saw (and I'm sorry, I don't remember where I saw it), they didn't say that Trion said they couldn't do horses. They were talking about the collaborative decision-making process between the show and the game, and the example that they gave was that it would be really easy to put the actors on horses, but that the game would have to include a lot of extra animations to make horses work, so in the end they decided to go with vehicles and they ended up liking the different vibe that gave.

To me, it sounded like the decision was based on cost/benefit, not necessarily capability.

T_Archangel
05-16-2013, 01:10 PM
Game devs took more inspiration from Mad Max. Horses do make sense logistically, if any survived that is.

Yeah, that's what I mean. They said most terrestrial livestock like bovines, goats, etc. died off (thus they grew to rely more on hybrids like the pow). So I imagine the horses would have gone the way of most of the other hoofed animals (notice we don't see deer either...). Just a thought though...

DaMaJaDiZ
05-16-2013, 01:13 PM
I don't think it's all that unreasonable for the design team to say "please don't add horses, it's just going to create a lot more work for us".

You kind of have to prioritize when adding features to a game, and horses probably aren't exactly leaving a huge gaping hole in the game.

It wouldn't make sense to have them anyway since they haven't shown any native animal that isn't domesticated for food, or a scavenger type. After an Apocalypse, non irradiated horse meat would draw a serious premium, and cars and tech still work. Someone somewhere has got a ranch full of endangered animals. It would be a shame to not have that story beat somewhere in the lore.

Tango80
05-16-2013, 01:15 PM
Hmm 1 horsepower or
372 Horsepower.

http://www.dodge.com/en/2013/challenger/performance/

Hmmm Decisions, Decisions.

DaMaJaDiZ
05-16-2013, 01:15 PM
In the vid I saw (and I'm sorry, I don't remember where I saw it), they didn't say that Trion said they couldn't do horses. They were talking about the collaborative decision-making process between the show and the game, and the example that they gave was that it would be really easy to put the actors on horses, but that the game would have to include a lot of extra animations to make horses work, so in the end they decided to go with vehicles and they ended up liking the different vibe that gave.

To me, it sounded like the decision was based on cost/benefit, not necessarily capability.

I'm listening to the Making of episode while I work to see if it was talked about there.

ironhands
05-16-2013, 01:16 PM
Yeah, that's what I mean. They said most terrestrial livestock like bovines, goats, etc. died off (thus they grew to rely more on hybrids like the pow). So I imagine the horses would have gone the way of most of the other hoofed animals (notice we don't see deer either...). Just a thought though...

didn't someone find a deer somewhere, or was that just a troll?

T_Archangel
05-16-2013, 01:25 PM
didn't someone find a deer somewhere, or was that just a troll?

LOL I actually don't recall seeing much in the way of our normal animals anywhere for the most part. We did see a snake... but for some odd reason it was a constrictor that had venom... (?). Otherwise not much in the way of animals other than a dog here and there, pows, those weird bear-bug things and the thingies flying in the air. Oh and Hellbugs...

Racheakt
05-16-2013, 01:25 PM
"SyFy didnt bend over backwards to set up things for the game in St. Louis. It was the reverse. They stopped them. Trion wasn't allowed to base the game in St. Louis. "

Citation?
Source?
Confirmation?

Just because I have peeve against the "Citation Needed" crowd: where is the proof it was Trion's choice and they chose LA?

Elric1
05-16-2013, 01:26 PM
From almost the beginning, the two were intended to be taking place in separate locations, but within the same shared universe, and with some crossover. Trion didn't just 'decide' to ignore St. Louis. Besides, they needed a place where they could do their own thing, to some degree. The show would be a hell of a lot different if it were swarming with thousands of EGO-using Ark hunters!

However I would like to see SOMEONE with an EGO so we know we are in fact the same world because Defiance and what goes on there is HELLA different then what I am playing right now.

ironhands
05-16-2013, 01:28 PM
LOL I actually don't recall seeing much in the way of our normal animals anywhere for the most part. We did see a snake... but for some odd reason it was a constrictor that had venom... (?). Otherwise not much in the way of animals other than a dog here and there, pows, those weird bear-bug things and the thingies flying in the air. Oh and Hellbugs...

there are chickens, rabbits, and other small birds that run around in the background, squirrels too?

Hope499
05-16-2013, 01:29 PM
how does it fake being a multiplayer game? Are you implying that the people you're playing with are bots?


THATS why no one talks to me! I knew it!

T_Archangel
05-16-2013, 01:29 PM
there are chickens, rabbits, and other small birds that run around in the background, squirrels too?

yeah I recall the chickens... birds... even a butterfly. But dunno about the rodents you mentioned. Then again, they are rodents and all rodents will find a way to survive lol

T_Archangel
05-16-2013, 01:31 PM
THATS why no one talks to me! I knew it!

HAHA. So those people aren't real? We really AREN'T connected to the internet when we play? It's just an elaborate hoax? Wait... not internet means if I buy bits then it really didn't happen! *Runs to bit store*

LOL

ironhands
05-16-2013, 01:31 PM
yeah I recall the chickens... birds... even a butterfly. But dunno about the rodents you mentioned. Then again, they are rodents and all rodents will find a way to survive lol

I'm pretty sure i've seen a small animal, might have been a squirrel, or a rabbit, or both, hard to say for certain right now. it's been a long day.

DaMaJaDiZ
05-16-2013, 01:31 PM
LOL I actually don't recall seeing much in the way of our normal animals anywhere for the most part. We did see a snake... but for some odd reason it was a constrictor that had venom... (?). Otherwise not much in the way of animals other than a dog here and there, pows, those weird bear-bug things and the thingies flying in the air. Oh and Hellbugs...

I've seen rabbits. Those made it pass doomsday.

T_Archangel
05-16-2013, 01:32 PM
I'm pretty sure i've seen a small animal, might have been a squirrel, or a rabbit, or both, hard to say for certain right now. it's been a long day.

LOL I hear ya. I just would like to see more of the new wildlife basically. Maybe even an actual pow on the show...

Hope499
05-16-2013, 01:32 PM
there are chickens, rabbits, and other small birds that run around in the background, squirrels too?

and those rats to kill in mine 99 (I think)

Any added life to the world, forest area, animals, water life, pieces of city to enter/explore, a cave or two with some mutant bears chillen out (I want a waterfall...I like waterfalls in games.....I want at least ONE...) Or is it just me that got excited in Skyrim when I saw a cool waterfall? (and the chance of a CAVE behind said waterfall? ya that gets me hard)

T_Archangel
05-16-2013, 01:33 PM
and those rats to kill in mine 99 (I think)

Any added life to the world, forest area, animals, water life, pieces of city to enter/explore, a cave or two with some mutant bears chillen out (I want a waterfall...I like waterfalls in games.....I want at least ONE...) Or is it just me that got excited in Skyrim when I saw a cool waterfall? (and the chance of a CAVE behind said waterfall? ya that gets me hard)

LOL yeah that would be cool

ironhands
05-16-2013, 01:34 PM
and those rats to kill in mine 99 (I think)

Any added life to the world, forest area, animals, water life, pieces of city to enter/explore, a cave or two with some mutant bears chillen out (I want a waterfall...I like waterfalls in games.....I want at least ONE...) Or is it just me that got excited in Skyrim when I saw a cool waterfall? (and the chance of a CAVE behind said waterfall? ya that gets me hard)

Of course! All PC gamers know the only thing that matters in a game, is looking at the quality of the water :P

DaMaJaDiZ
05-16-2013, 01:36 PM
and those rats to kill in mine 99 (I think)

Any added life to the world, forest area, animals, water life, pieces of city to enter/explore, a cave or two with some mutant bears chillen out (I want a waterfall...I like waterfalls in games.....I want at least ONE...) Or is it just me that got excited in Skyrim when I saw a cool waterfall? (and the chance of a CAVE behind said waterfall? ya that gets me hard)

I'd settle for the shell of a 7-11 or anything other than a bombed out office building.

Myst
05-16-2013, 01:37 PM
Of course! All PC gamers know the only thing that matters in a game, is looking at the quality of the water :P

I can't talk about water right now, came from an arkfall where two hellbug warriors were in the water we all shot INTO the water and our bullets did not get them. I typed "The hell is this water made of!?"

hagpop
05-16-2013, 01:37 PM
I for one, still have hope for the game and will be playing for a while. It seems to me that they are trying hard to fix the problems.

T_Archangel
05-16-2013, 01:38 PM
I'd settle for the shell of a 7-11 or anything other than a bombed out office building.

Yeah or a nice Hellbug infested Walmart or Lowes... maybe something other than the cookie cutter building

ironhands
05-16-2013, 01:39 PM
I can't talk about water right now, came from an arkfall where two hellbug warriors were in the water we all shot INTO the water and our bullets did not get them. I typed "The hell is this water made of!?"

It's made of water! Mythbusters proved it, even three feet of water can shatter a bullet making it useless, especially high powered/speed bullets.

found it
http://kwc.org/mythbusters/2005/07/mythbusters_bulletproof_water.html

Cheezis1
05-16-2013, 01:44 PM
It's made of water! Mythbusters proved it, even three feet of water can shatter a bullet making it useless, especially high powered/speed bullets.

found it
http://kwc.org/mythbusters/2005/07/mythbusters_bulletproof_water.html

But did they test high-powered plasma-infused energy weapons?

Myst
05-16-2013, 01:49 PM
It's made of water! Mythbusters proved it, even three feet of water can shatter a bullet making it useless, especially high powered/speed bullets.

found it
http://kwc.org/mythbusters/2005/07/mythbusters_bulletproof_water.html

/throws up hands then drop kicks the game out the window/

>: ( done!

SteveMND
05-16-2013, 01:51 PM
(I want a waterfall...I like waterfalls in games.....I want at least ONE...) Or is it just me that got excited in Skyrim when I saw a cool waterfall? (and the chance of a CAVE behind said waterfall? ya that gets me hard)

Nah, dude, I'm right there with you. Caves Behind Waterfalls is one of my hallmarks for a good game -- I compulsively check each and every waterfall I come across in any game. Rift had a few scattered about, but Guild Wars II? Positively littered with them! And not just in the obvious areas, sometimes hidden waterfalls, sometimes hidden caves behind hidden waterfalls, sometimes entire hidden encounter areas inside hidden caves behind hidden waterfalls. :D

Hope499
05-16-2013, 01:57 PM
And not just in the obvious areas, sometimes hidden waterfalls, sometimes hidden caves behind hidden waterfalls, sometimes entire hidden encounter areas inside hidden caves behind hidden waterfalls. :D

Can someone pass me some tissue or kleenex plz? I have made quite the mess...

Santana Ortega
05-16-2013, 02:06 PM
Yeah if they said horses weren't doable it makes me shudder to think what else is not doable...

Horses are doable.
The problem is that all the horses are gone....Food Source.
If you notice, the food sources have changed. Water is lacking but still around...but Horses were the 2nd thing to go after Cows.

Sanguinesun
05-16-2013, 03:34 PM
Horses are doable.
The problem is that all the horses are gone....Food Source.
If you notice, the food sources have changed. Water is lacking but still around...but Horses were the 2nd thing to go after Cows.


It was already explained that bovines were wiped out by disease I believe one of the previous ATB's with Dempsey.

slipfeed
05-16-2013, 09:07 PM
Just because I have peeve against the "Citation Needed" crowd: where is the proof it was Trion's choice and they chose LA?

Because I have no citation for either theory, I have to ask myself, who benefits most from the game being separated geographically from the show? When it comes to creative people, be they game developers or television writers, one thing they like to maintain is their creative freedom.

Considering this is a game based on a show, and not a show based on a game (and it clearly is if you have played it and watched the show) I come to the conclusion that the pants in the relationship are worn by the television production team. Also the money. I'm guessing a lot more money went into season 1 of the show than the production of the game (considering its launch state).

Now, had the game been based in Saint Louis, realistically, where a creative conflict to arise between the show producers and the game developers, the show producers would almost certainly win the argument.

Or, to make it simpler, Trion has more to loose than Sci-Fi by putting the game in Saint Louis.

So ya. I'm almost certain that trion made the call, in order to keep from being buried creatively by over bearing television producers.

And i'm almost certain it was a bad call.

Unless you can give me proof (or a plausible theory) it was Sci-fy that called it.

DJTrig
05-16-2013, 09:44 PM
Syfy wanted the bridge but Trion got dibs (was in an interview with the 2 top dogs from each).And to the idea of show>game,saberwolves (we need a forest so these can be added).

Rasczak
05-17-2013, 12:20 AM
I was under the general impression that the 2 were working together... hence Nolan heading there and Rynn heading here. Syfy advertises the game like gang busters so seems to me that it's collaborative.

Syfy (owned by NBCUniversal, in turn owned by Comcast) also advertises the game so heavily because they are in bed with it for 50% of its development cost: http://www.adweek.com/news/advertising-branding/syfy-bets-105m-tv-series-and-video-game-147622

As far as production on overall Defiance goes, Trion Worlds in on the hook for a mere $25 million or so. Syfy/NBCUniversal has a lot more money in the pot.

MacDeath
05-17-2013, 12:55 AM
Syfy (owned by NBCUniversal, in turn owned by Comcast) also advertises the game so heavily because they are in bed with it for 50% of its development cost: http://www.adweek.com/news/advertising-branding/syfy-bets-105m-tv-series-and-video-game-147622

As far as production on overall Defiance goes, Trion Worlds in on the hook for a mere $25 million or so. Syfy/NBCUniversal has a lot more money in the pot.
That's almost always the answer. Follow the money. Of the $105 Million we head about to get the show and game first season launched, Syfy put up $40M to produce the show, $15M for marketing, $30M to help Trion finance the game. Trion put ~ $20M in.

NBC Uni was a very early investor in Trion and stands to make a lot of money when Trion goes public. This game/show transmedia thing will have a huge impact on the value of Trion. It's very important that Defiance, both the show and game, is seen to be a success.

Racheakt
05-17-2013, 08:21 AM
Because I have no citation for either theory, I have to ask myself, who benefits most from the game being separated geographically from the show? When it comes to creative people, be they game developers or television writers, one thing they like to maintain is their creative freedom.

Considering this is a game based on a show, and not a show based on a game (and it clearly is if you have played it and watched the show) I come to the conclusion that the pants in the relationship are worn by the television production team. Also the money. I'm guessing a lot more money went into season 1 of the show than the production of the game (considering its launch state).

Now, had the game been based in Saint Louis, realistically, where a creative conflict to arise between the show producers and the game developers, the show producers would almost certainly win the argument.

Or, to make it simpler, Trion has more to loose than Sci-Fi by putting the game in Saint Louis.

So ya. I'm almost certain that trion made the call, in order to keep from being buried creatively by over bearing television producers.

And i'm almost certain it was a bad call.

Unless you can give me proof (or a plausible theory) it was Sci-fy that called it.

My bet is it was a joint call, it allows for a parallel existence in the same world without constant continuity issues.

The battle of Ft. Defiance took place at the game location, and the city in the game is named after that battle.

What is the population of the show in defiance? 9,000? How many game based ark-hunters are there? 100K? How would you explain 10-to-1 merc ratio that as a writer or show? Don't get me wrong, i think it could be done I would picture the city of defiance more like Bartertown in mad max and less like a real community at that point.

The show is meant to be a character drama, and not an action hero serial. And I fully expected the writing of the show to have far more influence over the game. This is not a bad thing, I like the idea of seeing characters come and go between the two areas and make reference to the other.

Remember too, they need to more or less make the two independent of each other as well, so that people can watch the show without playing the game to know what is going on, and vice versa.

As to the title "Defiance" the show it is about the town, and in the game I think the title refers to the aftermath of the Ft. Defiance battle, and the discovery of what really happened. In the show (and the game) more than a few times key players (Torc, Nolan) allude to more to that battle than we know, and that "more" is not worthy (at least how they act) of the hero status that they are getting.

But that is an opinion.

Zabuza
05-19-2013, 01:37 PM
Watch Blizzard come out with Starcraft Online or some other bullsheizer and then have a corresponding CGI cartoon show. I will /facepalm.