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mrarkhunter
05-17-2013, 02:54 PM
Fanboys are responsible for the layoffs at Tron and if they do not change their attitude they will be responsible for the closure of the entire studio.

Why?

It's simple.

Take for example this weeks tv show tie in content.

Fanboys are praising the 30min worth of content and how awesome and epic it was! While the rest of us were very disappointed.

Let's be realistic your average gamer who does not visit these forums is not going to be entertained with 30min worth of content none of which is unqiue. So what happens? They slowly begin to play less and less as there is nothing new to offer. Then bam you fanboys come on the forum and praise Trion for a wonderful job and they think what they created was enough to satisfy and continue upon their mediocre path.

Maybe you just still don't understand let me explain again...

Blindly supporting anything and everything Trion does with Defiance not help this game.

You may call me a troll or you may call me negative but I want to push Trion to make the best game possible. They need honest feedback and we will NEVER see improvements if you keep up the fanboy behavior.

It's okay to like the game but not pushing the developer to create and deliver upon a better experience will get us all no where.

Mark my words this forum has some of the biggest fanboy behavior I have ever witnessed. Defiance is a game that is in POOR condition right now and fanboys can keep hiding the fact and kill Defiance the game and Trion the game studio.

Or you start being honest and pushing Trion to actually improve the quality of this game and watch them prosper.

The choice is yours...

kill or help Trion?

RegularX
05-17-2013, 02:57 PM
Wow. I'm so glad you explained that twice. Like double the nonsense.

Pyth
05-17-2013, 02:58 PM
Do you even know what you're talking about?

Because it seems like you're just throwing **** at the wall hoping it sticks.

mrarkhunter
05-17-2013, 02:58 PM
Wow. I'm so glad you explained that twice. Like double the nonsense.

Trion will not be a game studio in 6 months if fanboys continue.

#fact

Newsin
05-17-2013, 02:59 PM
Wow. I'm so glad you explained that twice. Like double the nonsense.

Pretty much this.

Newsin
05-17-2013, 03:00 PM
Trion will not be a game studio in 6 months if fanboys continue.

#fact
You have no idea what you're talking about.

#fact

See how easy that was?

Schwa
05-17-2013, 03:01 PM
Neither the fanboys or the anti-fanboys are to blame for the layoffs today.

The poor reception and crashing sales, along with the poor quality of service of Defiance is to blame for the layoffs today.

mrarkhunter
05-17-2013, 03:02 PM
You have no idea what you're talking about.

#fact

See how easy that was?

I will not be wrong, feel free to bump this in 6 months if I am.

Game studios do not layoff if they are doing well. Trion is about to crash if they do not get the proper funding from their projects and currently defiance is what they are playing all their cards into and it has been a massive failure to this point.

baelrusk
05-17-2013, 03:03 PM
Really.....this makes no sense whatsoever.
And I'm one of the critical ones saying this.....not one of the Fanboys.


I will not be wrong, feel free to bump this in 6 months if I am.

Game studios do not layoff if they are doing well. Trion is about to crash if they do not get the proper funding from their projects and currently defiance is what they are playing all their cards into and it has been a massive failure to this point.

That has nothing to do with fanboys constantly backing a game in forums. It has to do with poor sales.

mrarkhunter
05-17-2013, 03:03 PM
Neither the fanboys or the anti-fanboys are to blame for the layoffs today.

The poor reception and crashing sales, along with the poor quality of service of Defiance is to blame for the layoffs today.

Exactly what you said sir... "the poor quality of service of Defiance is to blame for the layoffs today"

That is a direct result of fanboys

WhiteCell
05-17-2013, 03:04 PM
Neither the fanboys or the anti-fanboys are to blame for the layoffs today.

The poor reception and crashing sales, along with the poor quality of service of Defiance is to blame for the layoffs today.

Yeah. In the end it's whether or not developers deliver what the market demands. In this case what was delivered wasn't what players wanted. You can give developers all the best feedback in the world but whether or not they step back and take a ego hit regarding changing their design plans is another story. That is what happened with EAMythic and Warhammer Online. For years their testers told them and for years Mark Jacobs blew them off because he knew it all. End result was him being fired and loosing his company while gamers lost out on the possibility of a sweet MMO.

Ensu
05-17-2013, 03:05 PM
Keep on trucking, OP.

Anderson
05-17-2013, 03:05 PM
For ****s sake man, what the "haters" or the "fanboys" say doesn't really mean all that much anyhow. Every forum is going to have people gushing and other people who are constantly harping about every little thing. If they can filter through all the noise from either side they can find some useful feedback, but they're also doing research and looking at numbers in a ton of other places.

And honestly, we know next to nothing about these layoffs except a bunch of rumor mongering. All we know for sure is that Trion laid off employees. That's it, that's the extent of our knowledge. We don't know why they laid off or employees or even which employees were laid off. There are any number of reasons this could have happened from the doom and gloom scenario of this being the end of Defiance to Trion just being cheap bastards who just dumped a lot of people now that development is mostly over.

I doubt you care about any of that though. You probably just started this thread to start a fight.

WhiteCell
05-17-2013, 03:06 PM
Keep on trucking, OP.

Oh, God. Cross species fornication signatures!

I must be on the interwebs.

Pyth
05-17-2013, 03:07 PM
For ****s sake man, what the "haters" or the "fanboys" say doesn't really mean all that much anyhow. Every forum is going to have people gushing and other people who are constantly harping about every little thing. If they can filter through all the noise from either side they can find some useful feedback, but they're also doing research and looking at numbers in a ton of other places.

And honestly, we know next to nothing about these layoffs except a bunch of rumor mongering. All we know for sure is that Trion laid off employees. That's it, that's the extent of our knowledge. We don't know why they laid off or employees or even which employees were laid off. There are any number of reasons this could have happened from the doom and gloom scenario of this being the end of Defiance to Trion just being cheap bastards who just dumped a lot of people now that development is mostly over.

I doubt you care about any of that though. You probably just started this thread to start a fight.
This guy gets it.

Schwa
05-17-2013, 03:08 PM
Let's all remember Trion was proud about doing what other studios were not doing after the launch of Rift: they kept their development team on board to provide updates.

Had Defiance done better on the market (and had the service been good enough to do better on the market) I sincerely doubt we'd see such drastic action taken by Trion today.

IGears
05-17-2013, 03:10 PM
Fanboys are responsible for the layoffs at Tron and if they do not change their attitude they will be responsible for the closure of the entire studio.


Thats just like Kayne said during Hurricane Katrina on live TV, "George Bush hates black people".

Neo Dark
05-17-2013, 03:11 PM
Exactly what you said sir... "the poor quality of service of Defiance is to blame for the layoffs today"

That is a direct result of fanboys

Someone.. get this guy to rehab... he's obviously lost his mind...

Anyway, the game is... average to below average at best... and with so many game/show games being piles of... well... it's not hard to guess why a buggy game such as defiance has trouble... Not only that, but there is multiple games this year that threaten to have major sections of the fanbase move to them, and as such alot of people are ignoring this game. Plus it doesn't help when people are like "Recommended game"... and then two days later "Retract my recommendation... I thought the bugs were uncommon... more like unending."

Average game, many bugs, MMO, extremely repetitive gameplay (I know repetition is the goal of gameplay, but still this is insanely repetitive), and inability to complete achievements... yeah... no, you've just turned off most people.

Tzar of kaos
05-17-2013, 03:12 PM
Trion will not be a game studio in 6 months if fanboys continue.

#fact

And one more Nostradamus...You should take a look at the Maya' calendar.:rolleyes:

thinice
05-17-2013, 03:13 PM
Fanboys are responsible for the layoffs at Tron and if they do not change their attitude they will be responsible for the closure of the entire studio.

\

Actually people like are the reason. People that expect free content like crossovers to be a months worth of game play. People like you that expect a buy to play game with no sub to give unlimited game play.

Games like Defiance give you things to do. When you get tired of doing those things you can play another game and when new content comes via the DLC you can come back to the game and play it until you are bored of that as well. The whole point to a buy to play game is you don't have to commit anymore time than you want to it. You can play it at your pace. But people like you who can not get it through their thick heads will continue to bash something because its not what YOU want it to be. The choice is go play something else.

The game is pretty much what most of us expected it to be I think. The crossover stuff has been fine and what I have expected as well. Anyone with any thought process would be lying to themselves if they thought that a game based in one location and the show based in another would have in depth cross over stuff every week. They stated before the game ever came out that you don't lose anything if you only watch or play but that if you do both it will be a more in depth experience.

Fan boy behavior? lol This forum has the biggest troll behavior and basically you get a lot of one if you have a lot of the other.

Sacrimony
05-17-2013, 03:14 PM
Oh OP, I totally understand. The people who supported this game from day one are the ones who are responsible? What an utter load of ****e.

thinice
05-17-2013, 03:15 PM
I will not be wrong, feel free to bump this in 6 months if I am.

Game studios do not layoff if they are doing well. Trion is about to crash if they do not get the proper funding from their projects and currently defiance is what they are playing all their cards into and it has been a massive failure to this point.

Also I could be wrong, because obviously I don't have any inside info, but it is not uncommon for staff to be laid off after a launch. A lot of companies launch with a big staff to get them through a launch. As I said though I could be wrong.

RegularX
05-17-2013, 03:15 PM
Let's all remember Trion was proud about doing what other studios were not doing after the launch of Rift: they kept their development team on board to provide updates.

Had Defiance done better on the market (and had the service been good enough to do better on the market) I sincerely doubt we'd see such drastic action taken by Trion today.

Thing is - we don't know that. Games sell well, and teams still get laid off. Happens all the time.

Durva360
05-17-2013, 03:16 PM
Fanboys are not at fault here. quite silly for that statement to even have been posted. I love the game but feel the issues came strongly from the lack of marketing.

3rdpig
05-17-2013, 03:18 PM
Neither the fanboys or the anti-fanboys are to blame for the layoffs today.

The poor reception and crashing sales, along with the poor quality of service of Defiance is to blame for the layoffs today.

Good God man are you mad? You're using logic and intelligence on a gaming forum. Cease and desist immediately!

Schwa
05-17-2013, 03:20 PM
Thing is - we don't know that. Games sell well, and teams still get laid off. Happens all the time.

I'm not saying we do know it. But if Defiance had somehow sold 10 million copies, I sincerely doubt we'd be hearing rumors of the Defiance studio being "obliterated" today.

TigrisMorte
05-17-2013, 03:37 PM
Unfortunately for your explanation, that is not how MBAs work. Yes, devoted developers do work that way. MBAs however just cut everything, take the cash they made, and move on to the next investment.
Negative press (and no, not your complaints on the forum. Nothing on these forums even enters management's view unless it is quoted in the press.) works for performance art, and about nothing else.

GERMiside
05-17-2013, 03:38 PM
Fanboys are responsible for the layoffs at Tron and if they do not change their attitude they will be responsible for the closure of the entire studio.

Why?

It's simple.

Take for example this weeks tv show tie in content.

Fanboys are praising the 30min worth of content and how awesome and epic it was! While the rest of us were very disappointed.

Let's be realistic your average gamer who does not visit these forums is not going to be entertained with 30min worth of content none of which is unqiue. So what happens? They slowly begin to play less and less as there is nothing new to offer. Then bam you fanboys come on the forum and praise Trion for a wonderful job and they think what they created was enough to satisfy and continue upon their mediocre path.

Maybe you just still don't understand let me explain again...

Blindly supporting anything and everything Trion does with Defiance not help this game.

You may call me a troll or you may call me negative but I want to push Trion to make the best game possible. They need honest feedback and we will NEVER see improvements if you keep up the fanboy behavior.

It's okay to like the game but not pushing the developer to create and deliver upon a better experience will get us all no where.

Mark my words this forum has some of the biggest fanboy behavior I have ever witnessed. Defiance is a game that is in POOR condition right now and fanboys can keep hiding the fact and kill Defiance the game and Trion the game studio.

Or you start being honest and pushing Trion to actually improve the quality of this game and watch them prosper.

The choice is yours...

kill or help Trion?

I am a fanboy, and I love the game, do I like what they did for the tie in no, I did not even like the items you get, hell I wanted her outfit,

cusman
05-17-2013, 03:44 PM
Neither the fanboys or the anti-fanboys are to blame for the layoffs today.

The poor reception and crashing sales, along with the poor quality of service of Defiance is to blame for the layoffs today.

I think they probably inflated the Development / QA team to complete the game in time for the TV Show schedule. Now that they don't need all those boots on the ground they got rid of them.

The remaining staffers are hopefully going to be more manageable and they will start doing a better more focused job. I am sure there was a lot of overhead in just managing a large staff-base and maybe some of the staffers were causing more problems for the quality of the product than they were fixing.

Valethar
05-17-2013, 03:49 PM
Layoffs are normal after a game release. Sadly, the tinfoil hat crowd always flocks to the forums to start threads like this.

Ensu
05-17-2013, 03:50 PM
When you go to watch your school basketball team play, or your favourite football team, or your kid's soccer team, do you boo? Ever? Or do you cheer them on, give that extra bit of encouragement. Your support gives them that extra burst of energy, the determination to be all they can be.

It's like sitting at the side of your kid's soccer match and saying loudly, repeatedly, and in full hearing of the team on the pitch, "Look at them fail at soccer, my god, even their grandmothers could play a better game. Oh nice one, Johnny you little sh-. Way to drop the f-ing ball. I wasted five bucks on fuel and you can't even win a f-ing game? You owe me five bucks, mister, and you'll pay."

The people you deride as fanboys want Defiance to be the best it can be. They also understand that humans aren't machines, that humans can get depressed, and that depressed workers are unproductive.

Or maybe they're just nice people.

Either way, the kind of relentless hate some people seem intent on delivering under the flag of "tough love" strikes as somewhat insincere or at the very least points to a misunderstanding with regards to incentives.

Schwa
05-17-2013, 03:51 PM
When you go to watch your school basketball team play, or your favourite football team, or your kid's soccer team, do you boo? Ever? Or do you cheer them on, give that extra bit of encouragement. Your support gives them that extra burst of energy, the determination to be all they can be.

It's like sitting at the side of your kid's soccer match and saying loudly, repeatedly, and in full hearing of the team on the pitch, "Look at them fail at soccer, my god, even their grandmothers could play a better game. Oh nice one, Johnny you little sh-. Way to drop the f-ing ball. I wasted five bucks on fuel and you can't even win a f-ing game? You owe me five bucks, mister, and you'll pay."

The people you deride as fanboys want Defiance to be the best it can be. They also understand that humans aren't machines, that humans can get depressed, and that depressed workers are unproductive.

Or maybe they're just nice people.

Either way, the kind of relentless hate some people seem intent on delivering under the flag of "tough love" strikes as somewhat insincere or at the very least points to a misunderstanding with regards to incentives.

Critical break in reasoning: the developers behind Defiance are not children/teenagers.

Unleash the hellfire. This is the pro leagues, where you are encouraged to boo from the audience if someone makes a bad play.

Ensu
05-17-2013, 03:55 PM
Critical break in reasoning: the developers behind Defiance are not children/teenagers.

Unleash the hellfire. This is the pro leagues, where you are encouraged to boo from the audience if someone makes a bad play.

I call bull. People know how to cheer on a team in pro leagues, in olympic athletics, and especially in tennis, no matter how hard they're getting hammered by their opposition.

Schwa
05-17-2013, 03:59 PM
I call bull. People know how to cheer on a team in pro leagues, in olympic athletics, and especially in tennis, no matter how hard they're getting hammered by their opposition.

Well, you're free to cheer or boo whoever you like.

I am perfectly content to cheer on Trion but take a dump all over their most recent product in the hopes that it improves. If it doesn't, oh well.

Ensu
05-17-2013, 04:02 PM
Well, you're free to cheer or boo whoever you like.

I am perfectly content to cheer on Trion but take a dump all over their most recent product in the hopes that it improves. If it doesn't, oh well.

At least you'll have cleared your bowels.

Saboteur 6
05-17-2013, 04:04 PM
Fanboys caused the bubonic plague, dinosaur extinction, slavery, and the assassination of Kennedy. True story.

Linamaria
05-17-2013, 04:04 PM
Trion will not be a game studio in 6 months if fanboys continue.

#fact

Right... :rolleyes:


Blindly supporting anything and everything Trion does with Defiance not help this game.

I am blindly NOT supporting anything and everything you just said. Am I helping you to get better? :confused:

Merrin Nightbringer
05-17-2013, 04:09 PM
I will not be wrong, feel free to bump this in 6 months if I am.

Game studios do not layoff if they are doing well. Trion is about to crash if they do not get the proper funding from their projects and currently defiance is what they are playing all their cards into and it has been a massive failure to this point.

I didn't even read beyond this post, because your stupidity and ignorance is showing. Defiance is NOT what they are "playing all their cards into". In case you missed the memo, Rift goes F2P with a massive cash shop in June, Warface is still in beta (I believe?), and Archeage is on the horizon.

What the f*&^ are you smoking?

I'm normally not quite this blunt, but this has to be one of the most ignorant doom and gloom threads I've ever read. You have illustrated, on numerous occasions in this thread, that you have little or no understanding of how game publishers and development studios function.

So please, shut the f*&^ up.

bfonsworth
05-17-2013, 04:13 PM
Fanboys are responsible for the layoffs at Tron and if they do not change their attitude they will be responsible for the closure of the entire studio.

Why?

It's simple.

Take for example this weeks tv show tie in content.

Fanboys are praising the 30min worth of content and how awesome and epic it was! While the rest of us were very disappointed.

Let's be realistic your average gamer who does not visit these forums is not going to be entertained with 30min worth of content none of which is unqiue. So what happens? They slowly begin to play less and less as there is nothing new to offer. Then bam you fanboys come on the forum and praise Trion for a wonderful job and they think what they created was enough to satisfy and continue upon their mediocre path.

Maybe you just still don't understand let me explain again...

Blindly supporting anything and everything Trion does with Defiance not help this game.

You may call me a troll or you may call me negative but I want to push Trion to make the best game possible. They need honest feedback and we will NEVER see improvements if you keep up the fanboy behavior.

It's okay to like the game but not pushing the developer to create and deliver upon a better experience will get us all no where.

Mark my words this forum has some of the biggest fanboy behavior I have ever witnessed. Defiance is a game that is in POOR condition right now and fanboys can keep hiding the fact and kill Defiance the game and Trion the game studio.

Or you start being honest and pushing Trion to actually improve the quality of this game and watch them prosper.

The choice is yours...

kill or help Trion? I find your nonsense rather amusing. Please continue.

the1gwiz
05-17-2013, 04:42 PM
Exactly what you said sir... "the poor quality of service of Defiance is to blame for the layoffs today"

That is a direct result of fanboys


A + 4 = pantaloons

#fact?

Lupis Volk
05-17-2013, 04:44 PM
Yes quite amusing. What about Tomb Raiders layoff or the people who make KOA?

dim
05-17-2013, 04:54 PM
God it has to be awesome to live in complete ignorance of the state of the industry and global economy as a whole. Hold on to your youth man, it just doesn't last long enough.

ghost_ol3a
05-17-2013, 06:55 PM
When you go to watch your school basketball team play, or your favourite football team, or your kid's soccer team, do you boo? Ever? Or do you cheer them on, give that extra bit of encouragement. Your support gives them that extra burst of energy, the determination to be all they can be.

It's like sitting at the side of your kid's soccer match and saying loudly, repeatedly, and in full hearing of the team on the pitch, "Look at them fail at soccer, my god, even their grandmothers could play a better game. Oh nice one, Johnny you little sh-. Way to drop the f-ing ball. I wasted five bucks on fuel and you can't even win a f-ing game? You owe me five bucks, mister, and you'll pay."

The people you deride as fanboys want Defiance to be the best it can be. They also understand that humans aren't machines, that humans can get depressed, and that depressed workers are unproductive.

Or maybe they're just nice people.

Either way, the kind of relentless hate some people seem intent on delivering under the flag of "tough love" strikes as somewhat insincere or at the very least points to a misunderstanding with regards to incentives.
anybody remembers when vince young got the big boo, then cried about it? ha good times

ironhands
05-17-2013, 07:03 PM
Trion will not be a game studio in 6 months if fanboys continue.

#fact

yeah, you're right, it completely drowned out the 10:1 posts of people who didn't like it

Zeliska
05-17-2013, 07:03 PM
This is the funniest stuff ever written.

Players like the OP so badly want to see the sky fall...but will sue the same sky because they were hit with a falling cloud.

ironhands
05-17-2013, 07:06 PM
I will not be wrong, feel free to bump this in 6 months if I am.

Game studios do not layoff if they are doing well.

yes they do. layoffs often happen when there's not enough work to go around. if they need to focus on code for a few weeks, there's no point paying artists to sit around doing nothing.

Myst
05-17-2013, 07:07 PM
This is the funniest stuff ever written.

Players like the OP so badly want to see the sky fall...but will sue the same sky because they were hit with a falling cloud.

This...This was actually really good..

Shadow Viper
05-17-2013, 07:09 PM
Fanboys are responsible for the layoffs at Tron and if they do not change their attitude they will be responsible for the closure of the entire studio.

Why?

It's simple.

Take for example this weeks tv show tie in content.

Fanboys are praising the 30min worth of content and how awesome and epic it was! While the rest of us were very disappointed.

Let's be realistic your average gamer who does not visit these forums is not going to be entertained with 30min worth of content none of which is unqiue. So what happens? They slowly begin to play less and less as there is nothing new to offer. Then bam you fanboys come on the forum and praise Trion for a wonderful job and they think what they created was enough to satisfy and continue upon their mediocre path.

Maybe you just still don't understand let me explain again...

Blindly supporting anything and everything Trion does with Defiance not help this game.

You may call me a troll or you may call me negative but I want to push Trion to make the best game possible. They need honest feedback and we will NEVER see improvements if you keep up the fanboy behavior.

It's okay to like the game but not pushing the developer to create and deliver upon a better experience will get us all no where.

Mark my words this forum has some of the biggest fanboy behavior I have ever witnessed. Defiance is a game that is in POOR condition right now and fanboys can keep hiding the fact and kill Defiance the game and Trion the game studio.

Or you start being honest and pushing Trion to actually improve the quality of this game and watch them prosper.

The choice is yours...

kill or help Trion?

I'm far from a fanboy, but I thought this week's episode missions were fun and enjoyable.

It seems some crybabies aren't happy unless they have something to whine about.

If you want to cry about something kid, how about something that is rather important? Like the major bugs and glitches that have yet to be addressed and have broken the game and ruined it? If you're going to whine about something, whine about that.

This is a non-issue.

Thread reported for flame baiting, trolling and spam.

/thread

In Before Lock

baelrusk
05-17-2013, 07:10 PM
yes they do. layoffs often happen when there's not enough work to go around. if they need to focus on code for a few weeks, there's no point paying artists to sit around doing nothing.

Yeah the crucial point is what the layoffs were for......but companies don't tend to publicly announce specific reasons too often.
For now everyone should just wait and see what they say in a few days or so.

K1LLSVV1TCH
05-17-2013, 07:18 PM
If you for one second think that Trion even considers the opinions expressed on the forums as anything more than worthless drivel then you may be severely ******ed.

PurePlayinSerb
05-17-2013, 07:27 PM
i agree to a certain extent with the original poster, the new content in the game is pitiful, im not a person who gets enjoyment from boosting all day long, i have a clan that probably has over 300 people in it and we don't have anything to do as a clan besides boosting all day long, yeah yeah call it farming all you want its boosting, every time i get on the game ill get in a party with my clan, and im like alright im getting on what are y'all doing oh we're farming, great just what i want to do... actually i boost for 30 min tops and get off, i've lost interest in this game after like the 3rd episode, i know theirs new missions, but am not compelled to even get on the game to do them, i bought season pass and wonder if it was a mistake... i know i expected more from this game, and that's my fault but they aren't even close fulfilling my expectations with new content, the only thing people ever do in this game is boost, and that to me is not fun

ironhands
05-17-2013, 07:30 PM
Yeah the crucial point is what the layoffs were for......but companies don't tend to publicly announce specific reasons too often.
For now everyone should just wait and see what they say in a few days or so.

especially if it was accountants and janitors. I can't believe people are saying crap like "they deserved it for a shoddy product". what do those people have to do with the design choices... ffs. words cannot express the whatever i'm feeling that can't be expressed. unless it's just gas.

Escyos
05-17-2013, 07:32 PM
Trion NEVER said that we will be getting hours and days worth of content per week. Assumption of that is what ruined your gaming experience. Your lucky that we get anything at all.

Random
05-17-2013, 07:37 PM
Fanboys are responsible for the layoffs at Tron and if they do not change their attitude they will be responsible for the closure of the entire studio.

Why?

It's simple.

Take for example this weeks tv show tie in content.

Fanboys are praising the 30min worth of content and how awesome and epic it was! While the rest of us were very disappointed.

Let's be realistic your average gamer who does not visit these forums is not going to be entertained with 30min worth of content none of which is unqiue. So what happens? They slowly begin to play less and less as there is nothing new to offer. Then bam you fanboys come on the forum and praise Trion for a wonderful job and they think what they created was enough to satisfy and continue upon their mediocre path.

Maybe you just still don't understand let me explain again...

Blindly supporting anything and everything Trion does with Defiance not help this game.

You may call me a troll or you may call me negative but I want to push Trion to make the best game possible. They need honest feedback and we will NEVER see improvements if you keep up the fanboy behavior.

It's okay to like the game but not pushing the developer to create and deliver upon a better experience will get us all no where.

Mark my words this forum has some of the biggest fanboy behavior I have ever witnessed. Defiance is a game that is in POOR condition right now and fanboys can keep hiding the fact and kill Defiance the game and Trion the game studio.

Or you start being honest and pushing Trion to actually improve the quality of this game and watch them prosper.

The choice is yours...

kill or help Trion?

I love how you speak for us all and then proceed to explain to us why you are speaking for us all.

Thanks!

Stop,drop and roll kid because it's about to get hot.

Stop speaking for "us" you are "you" speak for yourself but don't drag "us" into it as if we've elected you head cheerio to speak for us at the council of defiance in venice.

In otherwords. Stop.

PurePlayinSerb
05-17-2013, 07:44 PM
Trion NEVER said that we will be getting hours and days worth of content per week. Assumption of that is what ruined your gaming experience. Your lucky that we get anything at all.

whoa whoa whoa! don't defend that idiotic stance, they did say the game will constantly be updated with new content not constantly patched, don't support false advertising, unless you like ea and want every game company to suck as much as them, be careful what you say

Random
05-17-2013, 07:47 PM
whoa whoa whoa! don't defend that idiotic stance, they did say the game will constantly be updated with new content not constantly patched, don't support false advertising, unless you like ea and want every game company to suck as much as them, be careful what you say

What is your idea of constant? Constant is consistent. Something they have done with content. Just because it isn't spaced to your liking does not mean they aren't being consistent (constant) with their content.

Whats with the weird warning at the end, as if you guys are across a table talking man to man over a beer with a six shooter on the table .

PurePlayinSerb
05-17-2013, 07:55 PM
What is your idea of constant? Constant is consistent. Something they have done with content. Just because it isn't spaced to your liking does not mean they aren't being consistent (constant) with their content.

Whats with the weird warning at the end, as if you guys are across a table talking man to man over a beer with a six shooter on the table .

haha not a threat more like a warning of your behavior cause you're endorsing whats wrong with gaming, and i assure you if everyone did what you did, you would be on my side very fast

Escyos
05-17-2013, 07:59 PM
whoa whoa whoa! don't defend that idiotic stance, they did say the game will constantly be updated with new content not constantly patched, don't support false advertising, unless you like ea and want every game company to suck as much as them, be careful what you say

Constantly is very open. Weekly content is constant, fortnightly content is constant.

We're getting free stuff and people are complaining because they want a games worth of content every week, well if you can run a company that is able to pull that off without going bankrupt in the process, you must be a genius.

Complaints like this serve little to no purpose. Complaining that Trion is taking its time to fix things is a waste, obviously they are working on it, do people think they sit around and throw your money in the air instead of working most of the day?

Random
05-17-2013, 08:06 PM
Constantly is very open. Weekly content is constant, fortnightly content is constant.

We're getting free stuff and people are complaining because they want a games worth of content every week, well if you can run a company that is able to pull that off without going bankrupt in the process, you must be a genius.

Complaints like this serve little to no purpose. Complaining that Trion is taking its time to fix things is a waste, obviously they are working on it, do people think they sit around and throw your money in the air instead of working most of the day?

I don't put much value at 60 bucks these days. I mean my rent is near 2k as is. 60 bucks for all the play time I have gotten I am super thrilled with. They could kill the servers and I have still gained more game time out of defiance than all of my some odd 300 games in the past few years.

I consider their content constant.

bigdirty
05-17-2013, 08:13 PM
"Fanboys" or "Haters" have literally nothing to do with these layoffs. You have no knowledge of how business works because you live at home still and haven't ever had a job.

EchoOne
05-17-2013, 08:16 PM
Defiance has fanboys?

Donno, all I see on the forums is all kinds of whining, and every now and then a fearless soul dares to open a positive thread with the utmost caution, admitting to the game`s faults in advance and whispering a silent "...but I like it". Still gets stoned, quartered and crucified by the mob of course.

PurePlayinSerb
05-17-2013, 08:37 PM
Constantly is very open. Weekly content is constant, fortnightly content is constant.

We're getting free stuff and people are complaining because they want a games worth of content every week, well if you can run a company that is able to pull that off without going bankrupt in the process, you must be a genius.

Complaints like this serve little to no purpose. Complaining that Trion is taking its time to fix things is a waste, obviously they are working on it, do people think they sit around and throw your money in the air instead of working most of the day?

ok i spent 60 bucks on the game, 50 bucks on bits, and 40 bucks on a season pass, i dont think they have to worry about going bankrupt anytime soon

they had a beta most these problems should have been resolved, don't justify an unfinished product, as a consumer, that threw more than enough money at them, im allowed to voice my opinion about the product i bought, you people have it twisted supporting everything they do, and no the game does not have all this content you speak of, unless you like doing mundane tedious pursuits all day, and then boost all day, im looking for what they advertised game tv show tie, there has been slim to none content on that front, although i do think in season 2 they can really do some things with it, i wasn't unrealistic assuming we would be changing the show right off the bat, i knew we wouldn't see anything major on that front till at least season 2, you can look at my posts im not a trion basher, this is the first i have voiced my opinion on the product regarding the negative aspects of this game.

PurePlayinSerb
05-17-2013, 08:57 PM
what no one telling me to shut up now that they know how much i spent on this game? oh so now my arguments are justified

Escyos
05-17-2013, 09:05 PM
ok i spent 60 bucks on the game, 50 bucks on bits, and 40 bucks on a season pass, i dont think they have to worry about going bankrupt anytime soon

they had a beta most these problems should have been resolved, don't justify an unfinished product, as a consumer, that threw more than enough money at them, im allowed to voice my opinion about the product i bought, you people have it twisted supporting everything they do, and no the game does not have all this content you speak of, unless you like doing mundane tedious pursuits all day, and then boost all day, im looking for what they advertised game tv show tie, there has been slim to none content on that front, although i do think in season 2 they can really do some things with it, i wasn't unrealistic assuming we would be changing the show right off the bat, i knew we wouldn't see anything major on that front till at least season 2, you can look at my posts im not a trion basher, this is the first i have voiced my opinion on the product regarding the negative aspects of this game.

You assumed that the game and show would be very closely tied that you would notice so many crossovers and that is why you are having such a bad time. It is IMPOSSIBLE to have such a closely tied show to the game as that would need more filming and cost millions more.

Weekly content, no matter how much, is still content. If your upset because you expected 50 missions to pop up every week, maybe this isn't the game for you.

Oh and about you paying so much that makes you entitled to more is bull, i payed 100 for the game, 40 for season pass and plan on spending more, you are not the only one putting money into this.

PurePlayinSerb
05-17-2013, 09:11 PM
You assumed that the game and show would be very closely tied that you would notice so many crossovers and that is why you are having such a bad time. It is IMPOSSIBLE to have such a closely tied show to the game as that would need more filming and cost millions more.

Weekly content, no matter how much, is still content. If your upset because you expected 50 missions to pop up every week, maybe this isn't the game for you.

Oh and about you paying so much that makes you entitled to more is bull, i payed 100 for the game, 40 for season pass and plan on spending more, you are not the only one putting money into this.

i didn't expect drastic changes, i expected at least a couple episode missions every week, side missions would be nice, no im not saying that what i spent makes me entitled anymore than the rest that bought the product, consumers are supposed to voice their opinion on the product they purchased, even if i spent 20 bucks on the game i'd still have that right, yet more accepting of faults, i only stated what and where my money went towards this game, cause the fool said they're lucky they aren't bankrupt for adding content that was mostly done before the game came out. so i stated the amount of money i put into it, and im sure im not the only one like yourself, and they charge 11 dollars for a damn outfit thats ridiculous, and guess what people buy em, cause i bout 2 outfits haha, my point on the money was simply that they are not starving for money

ironhands
05-17-2013, 09:15 PM
i didn't expect drastic changes, i expected at least a couple episode missions every week, side missions would be nice, no im not saying that what i spent makes me entitled anymore than the rest that bought the product, consumers are supposed to voice their opinion on the product they purchased, even if i spent 20 bucks on the game i'd still have that right, yet more accepting of faults, i only stated what and where my money went towards this game, cause the fool said they're lucky they aren't bankrupt for adding content that was mostly done before the game came out. so i stated the amount of money i put into it, and im sure im not the only one like yourself, and they charge 11 dollars for a damn outfit thats ridiculous, and guess what people buy em, cause i bout 2 outfits haha, my point on the money was simply that they are not starving for money

you expect more than an hour of gameplay per week to tie into a 47.5 minute tv show?

Escyos
05-17-2013, 09:15 PM
i didn't expect drastic changes, i expected at least a couple episode missions every week, side missions would be nice, no im not saying that what i spent makes me entitled anymore than the rest that bought the product, consumers are supposed to voice their opinion on the product they purchased, even if i spent 20 bucks on the game i'd still have that right, yet more accepting of faults, i only stated what and where my money went towards this game, cause the fool said they're lucky they aren't bankrupt for adding content that was mostly done before the game came out. so i stated the amount of money i put into it, and im sure im not the only one like yourself, and they charge 11 dollars for a damn outfit thats ridiculous, and guess what people buy em, cause i bout 2 outfits haha, my point on the money was simply that they are not starving for money

My point of bankruptcy was an analogy, I was not talking about Trion themselves.

You can expect all you want, but no one ever said anything that confirms your expectancy. We were told that we would be getting more content during the run of the show, which we are. The amount was never stated with precise accuracy (I think we got a weekly-fortnightly basis).

If I gave you $5,000,000 but only gave you $50 a week for however long it takes, would you really complain?

PurePlayinSerb
05-17-2013, 09:16 PM
you expect more than an hour of gameplay per week to tie into a 47.5 minute tv show?

aim high don't aim low, you're begging for complacency, i might as well say another major issue i have, pvp and pve should have separate weapons, cause there is no satisfaction in getting higher level weapons, guns that shouldn't be nerfed in pve are nerfed cause of pvp. in borderlands its fun leveling up cause you get much better weapons, in this game level means nothing but bragging rights boosting your own personal ego no pun intended

ironhands
05-17-2013, 09:19 PM
aim high don't aim low, you're begging for complacency

No, I'm being realistic. One episode of the TV show, one episodes worth in the game. kinda makes sense, many people can't put hours and hours a week into a video game; this game was intended to be accessible for anyone.

Escyos
05-17-2013, 09:21 PM
No, I'm being realistic. One episode of the TV show, one episodes worth in the game. kinda makes sense, many people can't put hours and hours a week into a video game; this game was intended to be accessible for anyone.

Agreed, they wanted the crossovers to be as available to as many as possible. Making people play for a week to find a conclusion would push them away.

PurePlayinSerb
05-17-2013, 09:21 PM
No, I'm being realistic. One episode of the TV show, one episodes worth in the game. kinda makes sense, many people can't put hours and hours a week into a video game; this game was intended to be accessible for anyone.

then why are pursuits tailor made for people to put hours into the game doing repetitive mundane tedious tasks?

Anderson
05-17-2013, 09:24 PM
then why are pursuits tailor made for people to put hours into the game doing repetitive mundane tedious tasks?

Because those kinds of "challenges" are there for the crazy hardcore people who like repetitive tasks after they burn through all the content.

It costs pretty much nothing to add them and it keeps people busy.

PurePlayinSerb
05-17-2013, 09:26 PM
Because those kinds of "challenges" are there for the crazy hardcore people who like repetitive tasks after they burn through all the content.

It costs pretty much nothing to add them and it keeps people busy.

well if the game is supposed to be accessible to everyone how come there isn't more stuff for the casuals? im a hardcore gamer, not a hardcore mmo player so its not to be mistaken, i can already see you mmo players love your grinding as you call it, me i see these pursuits and say f that hit eject and play a different game

ironhands
05-17-2013, 09:27 PM
then why are pursuits tailor made for people to put hours into the game doing repetitive mundane tedious tasks?

pursuits are challenges, they don't provide any meaningful plot resolutions, nor is it a big deal if you're unable to complete them

PurePlayinSerb
05-17-2013, 09:28 PM
pursuits are challenges, they don't provide any meaningful plot resolutions, nor is it a big deal if you're unable to complete them

exactly people call these new content, i don't... i call them what you call them new CHALLENGES

Escyos
05-17-2013, 09:29 PM
well if the game is supposed to be accessible to everyone how come there isn't more stuff for the casuals? im a hardcore gamer, not a hardcore mmo player so its not to be mistaken, i can already see you mmo players love your grinding as you call it, me i see these pursuits and say f that hit eject and play a different game

If you race through the game as fast as you can and then end up with nothing but pursuits, yes it can take some time. But many pursuits can be completed by playing the game. I doubt Trion expected you to constantly roam around finding emergencies in order to get your kill count up to 10,000, but rather play the game and eventually reach that goal with missions etc.

The way I see it if you cannot recall a tonne about the game lore and story then you went too fast and played mindlessly.

ironhands
05-17-2013, 09:29 PM
well if the game is supposed to be accessible to everyone how come there isn't more stuff for the casuals? im a hardcore gamer, not a hardcore mmo player so its not to be mistaken, i can already see you mmo players love your grinding as you call it, me i see these pursuits and say f that hit eject and play a different game

you're not expected to grind away at them, you're meant to fill them up as you play over the course of weeks/months, not force yourself to rack up 50,000 kills in a weekend

Shadow Viper
05-17-2013, 09:29 PM
Just keep reporting this thread for trolling, best to stop responding to it.

ironhands
05-17-2013, 09:30 PM
exactly people call these new content, i don't... i call them what you call them new CHALLENGES

neither do I, never said they were.

PurePlayinSerb
05-17-2013, 09:33 PM
If you race through the game as fast as you can and then end up with nothing but pursuits, yes it can take some time. But many pursuits can be completed by playing the game. I doubt Trion expected you to constantly roam around finding emergencies in order to get your kill count up to 10,000, but rather play the game and eventually reach that goal with missions etc.

The way I see it if you cannot recall a tonne about the game lore and story then you went too fast and played mindlessly.

i did play fast, but thats cause i played the beta, and i knew i had to get scrip to get the clan name defiant few cause from the beta i found out that defiant few is kind of a big deal but once i got my 5000 scrip i slowed down and played the game normal

PurePlayinSerb
05-17-2013, 09:34 PM
Just keep reporting this thread for trolling, best to stop responding to it.

your the one trolling look at all my posts fool, im anything but a troll

Keth
05-17-2013, 09:35 PM
Didn't read through all the replies. It's pretty clear the OP has no knowledge of a business. A reduction of force, or lay offs, has to do with one thing. Money. Many things can be blamed. From planned lay offs after the project is over since a company doesn't need such a large force to continue to low sales not bringing enough money in to support such a large workforce. What ever it is, it has nothing to do with the supporters of the game. There is no, "Look at that, they say we are good so let's stop working and sit back" going on. That mentality makes no sense and if you truly believe it then I'm sorry.

PurePlayinSerb
05-17-2013, 09:37 PM
Didn't read through all the replies. It's pretty clear the OP has no knowledge of a business. A reduction of force, or lay offs, has to do with one thing. Money. Many things can be blamed. From planned lay offs after the project is over since a company doesn't need such a large force to continue to low sales not bringing enough money in to support such a large workforce. What ever it is, it has nothing to do with the supporters of the game. There is no, "Look at that, they say we are good so let's stop working and sit back" going on. That mentality makes no sense and if you truly believe it then I'm sorry.

i agree with this, which is why i said in my first post on this thread i agreed to a certain extent

Sanguinesun
05-17-2013, 10:02 PM
Neither the fanboys or the anti-fanboys are to blame for the layoffs today.

The poor reception and crashing sales, along with the poor quality of service of Defiance is to blame for the layoffs today.

This. When they knew as far back as January the issues surrounding the game(due to alpha testers like us telling them so frequently), and essentially the game going live with minimal change from there, well, this result wasn't unlikely. Infact I would conjecture this was one of their plans in this eventuality.

Booshy
05-17-2013, 10:07 PM
Fanboys are responsible for the layoffs at Tron and if they do not change their attitude they will be responsible for the closure of the entire studio.

Why?

It's simple.

Take for example this weeks tv show tie in content.

Fanboys are praising the 30min worth of content and how awesome and epic it was! While the rest of us were very disappointed.

Let's be realistic your average gamer who does not visit these forums is not going to be entertained with 30min worth of content none of which is unqiue. So what happens? They slowly begin to play less and less as there is nothing new to offer. Then bam you fanboys come on the forum and praise Trion for a wonderful job and they think what they created was enough to satisfy and continue upon their mediocre path.

Maybe you just still don't understand let me explain again...

Blindly supporting anything and everything Trion does with Defiance not help this game.

You may call me a troll or you may call me negative but I want to push Trion to make the best game possible. They need honest feedback and we will NEVER see improvements if you keep up the fanboy behavior.

It's okay to like the game but not pushing the developer to create and deliver upon a better experience will get us all no where.

Mark my words this forum has some of the biggest fanboy behavior I have ever witnessed. Defiance is a game that is in POOR condition right now and fanboys can keep hiding the fact and kill Defiance the game and Trion the game studio.

Or you start being honest and pushing Trion to actually improve the quality of this game and watch them prosper.

The choice is yours...

kill or help Trion?

I detest fanbois more than a lot of things and will openly say I judge them as being extremely weak minded individuals. Anyone who can't find the courage in themselves to accept fault even in the things they hold so dear are just that - weak. They need the comfort that they have found the perfect thing to make them happy and will defend that delusional sense of safety endlessly. There isn't a thing I love or enjoy that I won't also openly admit it's faults without restraint, which is the case for most non-fanboys. Why? Because I don't need something I enjoy to be perfect, and I also believe that constructive criticism helps to foster better quality in whatever it is being discussed.

Having said that fanboi rant, you just described every game that exists. I agree Fanboys do a disservice to the games they fanboy it up for, but every single game has numerous mindless lap dogs that just eat up whatever they give them. I doubt this game will suffer any more from them than any other does. The official forums are always the worst anyway, obviously, as the people who play and enjoy the game are the ones posting there USUALLY. It's really the developers job to be critical of their own product themselves and to also gather feedback from multiple sources beyond just the official forums.

MacDeath
05-17-2013, 10:10 PM
For ****s sake man, what the "haters" or the "fanboys" say doesn't really mean all that much anyhow. Every forum is going to have people gushing and other people who are constantly harping about every little thing. If they can filter through all the noise from either side they can find some useful feedback, but they're also doing research and looking at numbers in a ton of other places.

And honestly, we know next to nothing about these layoffs except a bunch of rumor mongering. All we know for sure is that Trion laid off employees. That's it, that's the extent of our knowledge. We don't know why they laid off or employees or even which employees were laid off. There are any number of reasons this could have happened from the doom and gloom scenario of this being the end of Defiance to Trion just being cheap bastards who just dumped a lot of people now that development is mostly over.

I doubt you care about any of that though. You probably just started this thread to start a fight.
/signed QFT

EdgeTW
05-17-2013, 10:15 PM
Layoffs are normal after a game release. Sadly, the tinfoil hat crowd always flocks to the forums to start threads like this.

I don't know where this line of thinking started (although it has been floating around well beyond this particular game), but this just isn't the case.

Yes, when an MMO launches there will be shifts in studio resources as some people choose to move on to other companies to pursue other goals. Some employees will choose to remain but move on to either existing projects or new projects within the same company (rather than transition to the live team). And, of course, some from the original team will choose to remain on the live team to continue working on the game.

But, no, it is not normal for an MMO to launch followed by employees being unexpectedly laid off. If that happens it's because the project was not successful enough to support the existing workforce, and there is no positive way to spin that. We're not talking about temporary Q&A positions here that were filled near the end of development with the understanding that they were temporary.



As for fanboys.. I have always felt that fanboys can extremely detrimental to the success of a game. There's a difference between genuinely liking the game because you enjoy it and being blindly loyal and supportive and refusing to see the problems any project has.

The latter described Bioware fans during SWTOR's development, who came down like a pack of rabid dogs on anyone who voiced a concern about SWTOR prior to launch. And now look at it.. a Star Wars MMO with less than 500,000 players and a bunch of ex-fanboys wondering what went wrong. You can put a share of the blame on the dev team, but it's difficult to fault them completely when any hopes for receiving proper and useful feedback was drowned out by the sheer volume of useless praise and other noise from the "fans".

But that's SWTOR, and the Defiance team has its own problems. The development team seemed stuck on their vision and not very interested in listening to feedback. I'm not going to pretend it wasn't a situation made worse by fanboys, though. But, while they are not entirely innocent in all of this, I'm not going to give them (fanboys) the lion's share of the blame on this particular project.

BEINGSTUPID735
05-17-2013, 10:44 PM
Anyone else think one of the layoffs may have been the chicken from Across The Badlands for releasing too many clucking secrets?!?

RegularX
05-17-2013, 10:48 PM
I don't know where this line of thinking started (although it has been floating around well beyond this particular game), but this just isn't the case.

Yes, when an MMO launches there will be shifts in studio resources as some people choose to move on to other companies to pursue other goals. Some employees will choose to remain but move on to either existing projects or new projects within the same company (rather than transition to the live team). And, of course, some from the original team will choose to remain on the live team to continue working on the game.



Bioware seems to disagree with you. This hardly sounds like a bunch of people voluntarily moving on to greener pastures.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/07/17/layoffs-hit-star-wars-the-old-republic-studio

And yeah, I'm sure as with any product: the fans are the problem.

What. ever.

Spookyy
05-17-2013, 10:56 PM
Yup, fanboys hurt the game bad during alpha and through release no doubt about that. Then some shoddy coding (like: how in the heck did this got past QA) was the final nail in the coffin.

Weak games sell bad, ain't that a shocker.

Indra Echo
05-17-2013, 10:58 PM
Exactly what you said sir... "the poor quality of service of Defiance is to blame for the layoffs today"

That is a direct result of fanboys

Crazy talk pure and simple.

All games have issues and some are bigger and made by companies that have been making the exact same game over and over and over again, and yet they never fix the issues. And most other devs never even try to talk with their fans, they fix a few things, call it done and move on. Their attitude is if you don't like it, so what, 2 million other people do, so we don't need you.

Could Trion do better? Sure thing, but so could everyone, even you I have no doubt.

What they have done is something no one has done to this extent before on consoles. There's lag at times sure. But I've seen worse lag in Black Ops 2.

I'm no fanboy so don't even go there, but since this is a new venture and I knew it, I also knew there was bound to be problems. Just like I knew that the first time I played Little Big Planet or Demon's Souls or any other game that broke with the stereotypical CoD model of gaming.

I don't come down as angry when someone tries something new and has problems making it all work, but I get livid when a company that has been doing something for years and years and should know how to do it makes garbage and has no intention of fixing it. One is breaking new ground and should be given a fair chance because the unexpected will always arise. The other just keeps on handing out garbage and gets a pass and that's where the fanboys are.

ScarFace1483
05-17-2013, 11:00 PM
Remember fanboys the movie I thought it was pretty funny

A s0t
05-17-2013, 11:01 PM
Fanboys are responsible for the layoffs at Tron and if they do not change their attitude they will be responsible for the closure of the entire studio.

so trion is using the forums as the human resource department?

KeevanSixx
05-17-2013, 11:06 PM
if i may interject a thought sideways into this colorfull intellectual conundrum....

Instead of pointing fingers and laying blame about "it's x's fault the game is doing badly. No, it's y's fault because..."

the real question remains...

"what is trion going to do about the game? how are they going to solve it? and, how soon will the antpile get sorted out for the enjoyment of all?

anything else is pointless schtako bickering.....funny to read, but solves nothing in the end......

carry on...the dude abides.

ralisti
05-17-2013, 11:10 PM
The reason for the layoffs is simple. It is poor project management, plain and simple. Resources were pulled from fixing bugs to retexture some over used models (hellbugs) instead of fixing bugs. In addition, resources were pulled from QA testing to babysit the forums because it was felt that controlling complaints is more important then resolving the issues causing the complaints.

There are issues from day one, not just with the bugs, but that the game was WAY over hyped and way under delivered.

The game has been out for weeks now, and there are a plethora of issues which still exist which not only frustrate the players to no end, but cause players to doubt the competence of Trion.

In every game there are going to be fanboys, it is up to the project management to filter out sycophants and haters, get the truth of how players feel, and address those issues.

EdgeTW
05-17-2013, 11:15 PM
Bioware seems to disagree with you. This hardly sounds like a bunch of people voluntarily moving on to greener pastures.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/07/17/layoffs-hit-star-wars-the-old-republic-studio

And yeah, I'm sure as with any product: the fans are the problem.

What. ever.

You should try quoting my entire comment next time instead of snipping a section out of context. The next paragraph I wrote said:

"But, no, it is not normal for an MMO to launch followed by employees being unexpectedly laid off. If that happens it's because the project was not successful enough to support the existing workforce, and there is no positive way to spin that. We're not talking about temporary Q&A positions here that were filled near the end of development with the understanding that they were temporary."

I don't care how Bioware tried to spin it, it's utter crap and not difficult to understand that they would not have been laying development personnel off if SWTOR had instead exploded into a success that was capable of supporting their staff (regardless of whether that staff remained with SWTOR or moved on to other Bioware projects). Shuffling personnel around = normal. Developers choosing to leave the company to pursue other goals/projects = normal. Large amounts of layoffs = never normal, never business as usual, and never a good sign.

Indra Echo
05-17-2013, 11:18 PM
The funny thing is, I read things such as people are leaving the game, and blah blah blah, but I've never been in the game when there weren't a lot of people playing. I'm never alone doing a mission-San Fran at first was a dead zone and great for doing arkfalls on your own (lol). But, it's actually been getting busier.

I'm not saying things don't need to be fixed, but the hellbugs were more than just re-textured since they've added new attacks from them and I actually have noticed different new things happening consistently, sometimes good new content and sometimes bad game bugs.

KeevanSixx
05-17-2013, 11:23 PM
The reason for the layoffs is simple. It is poor project management, plain and simple. Resources were pulled from fixing bugs to retexture some over used models (hellbugs) instead of fixing bugs. In addition, resources were pulled from QA testing to babysit the forums because it was felt that controlling complaints is more important then resolving the issues causing the complaints.

There are issues from day one, not just with the bugs, but that the game was WAY over hyped and way under delivered.

The game has been out for weeks now, and there are a plethora of issues which still exist which not only frustrate the players to no end, but cause players to doubt the competence of Trion.

In every game there are going to be fanboys, it is up to the project management to filter out sycophants and haters, get the truth of how players feel, and address those issues.

good one.....

so....is it safe to surmise that the general concensus of the forum body politik in this stage of the game is...

"Please fix all the broken schtako, ASAP or quicker, so we can all enjoy the fun stuff later" ?

close? or off the mark?

ralisti
05-17-2013, 11:24 PM
The funny thing is, I read things such as people are leaving the game, and blah blah blah, but I've never been in the game when there weren't a lot of people playing. I'm never alone doing a mission-San Fran at first was a dead zone and great for doing arkfalls on your own (lol). But, it's actually been getting busier.

I'm not saying things don't need to be fixed, but the hellbugs were more than just re-textured since they've added new attacks from them and I actually have noticed different new things happening consistently, sometimes good new content and sometimes bad game bugs.

A game based on this structure depends on income 2 ways.

First is a constant influx of people buying that game. With the current state of the game, it has not only fallen off the 'buy' list for most gamers, but people have been trying to get refunds (with varying levels of success). Without a steady influx of buyers, a major source of revenue takes a hit.

The second way is through the real money store. Bits are over priced for the items offered, and with the insane rarity of good weapons from lockboxes, people just do not see the need to throw good money after bad chasing items in the locksboxes. That is why, instead of increasing percentages of good weapons from lockboxes, Trion has instead reduced ways to get keycodes to try and force people to buy bits...which backfired badly because it did not address the real issue as to why people do not buy bits.

Yes, people continue to play, but let me ask you. How many bits have you bought? Do you actively try to recruit friends to buy the game?

ralisti
05-17-2013, 11:33 PM
good one.....

so....is it safe to surmise that the general concensus of the forum body politik in this stage of the game is...

"Please fix all the broken schtako, ASAP or quicker, so we can all enjoy the fun stuff later" ?

close? or off the mark?

I am thinking we have moved beyond that point as Trion had made little to no progress in fixing bugs, and have even added MANY new ones in their quest to try and bail water from the boat.

Trion is at the point they need to fix the majority of the bugs yesterday, especially the ones that have been around since day 1.

They also need to give people a reason for people to WANT to spend real money to buy bit instead of trying to reduce keycodes and force people to buy bits for lockboxes. The differences in a blue and an orange weapon of the same type is not enough for people to want to spend real money in hopes the .0000001% chance of getting an orange weapon they actually want.

Once the above is done, they need to figure out how to get people to buy the game. They will have to offer huge incentives to get the plethora of people who have left the game to log back in, see the games, and be impressed enough to start trying to get people to buy the game today. They would also have to get the game reviewers to take another look at the game and increase the current abysmal rating the game has.

The game can be saved, but with the layoff it is doubtful.

RegularX
05-17-2013, 11:41 PM
I don't care how Bioware tried to spin it, it's utter crap and not difficult to understand that they would not have been laying development personnel off if SWTOR had instead exploded into a success that was capable of supporting their staff (regardless of whether that staff remained with SWTOR or moved on to other Bioware projects). Shuffling personnel around = normal. Developers choosing to leave the company to pursue other goals/projects = normal. Large amounts of layoffs = never normal, never business as usual, and never a good sign.

Your faith in management is remarkable, even if it is completely misguided.

Fact is - the MMO genre is the one most frequently by layoffs:
http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/03/21/mmo-devs-most-in-danger-of-layoffs-study-claims/

Not a good sign? I'll agree there. Some kind of rarity that indicates the sky is falling? Nope.

Indra Echo
05-17-2013, 11:45 PM
A game based on this structure depends on income 2 ways.

First is a constant influx of people buying that game. With the current state of the game, it has not only fallen off the 'buy' list for most gamers, but people have been trying to get refunds (with varying levels of success). Without a steady influx of buyers, a major source of revenue takes a hit.

The second way is through the real money store. Bits are over priced for the items offered, and with the insane rarity of good weapons from lockboxes, people just do not see the need to throw good money after bad chasing items in the locksboxes. That is why, instead of increasing percentages of good weapons from lockboxes, Trion has instead reduced ways to get keycodes to try and force people to buy bits...which backfired badly because it did not address the real issue as to why people do not buy bits.

Yes, people continue to play, but let me ask you. How many bits have you bought? Do you actively try to recruit friends to buy the game?


Well, to answer your question-I've bought bits but honestly can't remember how many. I had MS credit in the store so I used it. I don't actively recruit anyone to play any game. I'm older and female, and most of my friends don't play games (not shooters anyway) and in my family I'm the only one who likes to play a lot of MP games. I do talk about it however and I've been enjoying it.

I've played this game a lot since I got it and I will say that compared to a lot of other games, I've gotten my money's worth so far. Considering that some games have barely 5 hours of decent play in them and then they rely on MP that I consider to be far more repetitive than in this game, the amount of play so far here has not disappointed me.

Yes, the bugs have, but I will say it again, games lately have been a pile of steaming horse dung. Black Ops 2, a runaway bestseller was unplayable online for over a week when first released and in many ways still is-CoD games have always been formulaic and so you'd think they'd know by now how to make them, but no, not Black Ops2. If it were a new venture I'd be more inclined to be more "forgiving" but I've never heard so much complaining about a game from other players while playing the game as I have BO2.

I'm someone that wants to reward people (with my patience) for actually trying to do something new, even if they're struggling to make it work. I guess it's because I want new types of games to be out there for me and on the PS3, the exclusives have been rather different from what I see on the xbox. And some of them had bumpy starts but were really good in the long run.

The angry people here expect perfection, but that's unrealistic. They also seem to think Trion isn't trying to fix what's broken. I'm not blind to the problems the game has but I do think it's a bit ridiculous for some people to be acting like DLC should be out already.

We take so many things for granted-so expecting there to be no glitches, expecting perfection is kind of a spoiled attitude. There recently was a great routine done by a comedian who talked about our complaining about technology. We get impatient if we have to wait a half hour for our plane to take off-he said people don't stop to think they're sitting in a chair in the air and flying. Or that we have to wait for something to be sent via satellite-he said the signal is going to space and coming back. We just think this is all so easy to do-well, if so then why aren't we doing it?

Yes, I want things fixed. I want everyone to have fun playing this game.

EdgeTW
05-17-2013, 11:49 PM
Your faith in management is remarkable, even if it is completely misguided.

Fact is - the MMO genre is the one most frequently by layoffs:
http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/03/21/mmo-devs-most-in-danger-of-layoffs-study-claims/

Not a good sign? I'll agree there. Some kind of rarity that indicates the sky is falling? Nope.

I don't even need to look at that study, because it's not telling me anything I'm not already intimately aware of.

I never suggested that game development was one of the more stable employment opportunities out there. You would have to live in a bubble to believe that, especially these past 5 years. I merely pointed out that game development projects which meet or exceed the expectations of management don't result in significant layoffs. It's not "business as usual", it's "business going badly, time to save money and make cuts we didn't originally plan on making".

It's not common because it's the nature of the MMO industry, it's common because of the sheer number of development failures that have come out of the industry post-WoW.

And.. lol.. you don't want to hear about my faith in management.

UKresistance
05-17-2013, 11:53 PM
Lack of an instruction book combined with how confusing some things are pissed me off far more than any of the bugs. But both those together combined with inconvenient times for patching make this game hard to recommend to friends.

Gabbro1000
05-18-2013, 12:05 AM
I don't see how this is a 'fanboy' fault. The vision was made years ago, product was made, is released buggy as hell. I think 'most' bugs are sorted (ones that affected me anyways) but that probably was the problem. They've wasted so much time fixing the coding, then RE-fixing NEW faults that arose as a result.

A month down the line, the game is a month behind itself. If I played the game for the first time TODAY, I'd wonder why people were complaining so much.

It's an MMO across 3 platforms. I know nothing about coding, but I imagine that in itself is a HUGE task. Had this been released on 1 platform, it probably would have been perfect straight out of the box.

My only query is how are these layoffs gonna effect the game. They gonna get a new team in? Leave it as a skeleton crew (80% is quite a lot of staff!)? Does this mean that future fixes, updates and content are going to take 2,3 or even 4 times as long to release? 5 DLCs by Christmas isn't looking to good.

Schwa
05-18-2013, 12:08 AM
I don't see how this is a 'fanboy' fault. The vision was made years ago, product was made, is released buggy as hell. I think 'most' bugs are sorted (ones that affected me anyways) but that probably was the problem. They've wasted so much time fixing the coding, then RE-fixing NEW faults that arose as a result.

A month down the line, the game is a month behind itself. If I played the game for the first time TODAY, I'd wonder why people were complaining so much.

It's an MMO across 3 platforms. I know nothing about coding, but I imagine that in itself is a HUGE task. Had this been released on 1 platform, it probably would have been perfect straight out of the box.

My only query is how are these layoffs gonna effect the game. They gonna get a new team in? Leave it as a skeleton crew (80% is quite a lot of staff!)? Does this mean that future fixes, updates and content are going to take 2,3 or even 4 times as long to release? 5 DLCs by Christmas isn't looking to good.

They're obligated to fill that season pass in a limited amount of time. Since they can't just delay all five, we should expect to see future DLC substantially smaller than the first.

MstrJedi_Kyle
05-18-2013, 12:10 AM
Don't most companies have layoff after a game comes out? They let the people who were there on as temps go. They also let anyone who was contracted out go as well.

Daholic
05-18-2013, 12:12 AM
They're obligated to fill that season pass in a limited amount of time. Since they can't just delay all five, we should expect to see future DLC substantially smaller than the first.

I was thinking about that. In an attempt to keep the customers some what happy, I can imagine they rush a few things to keep the fan base occupied while hey figure out a contingency plan.

A s0t
05-18-2013, 12:12 AM
Don't most companies have layoff after a game comes out? They let the people who were there on as temps go. They also let anyone who was contracted out go as well.

didn't ea or thq get in trouble for overwork and underpaying their employees?

Daholic
05-18-2013, 12:15 AM
Don't most companies have layoff after a game comes out? They let the people who were there on as temps go. They also let anyone who was contracted out go as well.

yea because "Trion Worlds has been hit by layoffs. IGN sources suggest that well over half the company has been let go, with some suggesting numbers as high as 80%." is very much normal for a gaming company right???

KeevanSixx
05-18-2013, 12:17 AM
Don't most companies have layoff after a game comes out? They let the people who were there on as temps go. They also let anyone who was contracted out go as well.

yeah, they do. But most of the time, it is after they deliver a finished product. A lot of people are concerned because trion axed the team BEFORE the product was fine polished. That's what all the discussion and debate is about....we're just hoping sledge or morgana can pop in soon and shed a little light on the fog in the bay......meanwhile, we continue to speculate, debate, and generally be our everlovin' selves in the interim....enjoy the show!

Daholic
05-18-2013, 12:19 AM
here's the so called update:

" She further clarified that no one was escorted out of the building or denied severance as IGN's unnamed source alleged. Additionally, developers emphasized during today's official stream that the RIFT team is not affected by the layoffs."

Haha how can you spin that that doesn't equal Defiant disaster.

PitBull76
05-18-2013, 12:21 AM
Trion will not be a game studio in 6 months if fanboys continue.

#fact

Your a ****** bag

#fact

drackiller
05-18-2013, 12:23 AM
... You have no knowledge of how business works because you live at home still and haven't ever had a job.

For real man!?
I feel offended and sad for that

MstrJedi_Kyle
05-18-2013, 12:27 AM
yeah, they do. But most of the time, it is after they deliver a finished product. A lot of people are concerned because trion axed the team BEFORE the product was fine polished. That's what all the discussion and debate is about....we're just hoping sledge or morgana can pop in soon and shed a little light on the fog in the bay......meanwhile, we continue to speculate, debate, and generally be our everlovin' selves in the interim....enjoy the show!

Oh, well that makes sense.

JonDav
05-18-2013, 12:37 AM
Forget the blame game, I sincerely feel bad for those laid off. The game didn't come close to reaching my expectations, but I sure as hell don't want to see people laid off. I can only imagine a parent losing their jobs with mouths to feed and bills to pay. I remember my struggles during college and it's a time I wouldn't wish on anyone. I doubt the game will see any drastic improvements but I really hope those laid off get some kind of severance pay and quickly find new positions.

KeevanSixx
05-18-2013, 12:40 AM
here's the so called update:

" She further clarified that no one was escorted out of the building or denied severance as IGN's unnamed source alleged. Additionally, developers emphasized during today's official stream that the RIFT team is not affected by the layoffs."

Haha how can you spin that that doesn't equal Defiant disaster.


well frankly, one can't.....

but looking through a different set of lenses it could be construed to mean:

"trion implemented a system of layoffs to better serve the needs of the defiance product. This restructuring will streamline the development process, and provide a better gaming experience for our dedicated community."

Or, it could mean:

"Trion initiated a mass layoff to curb expenses in the wake of a dismal game performance launch. This restructuring will focus necessary resources to other projects in development, and provide a necessary exit to a promising title.

is the glass half full? or half empty? it all depends on your point of view.....

let's face it, as a community we are highly polarized......some see it through rose colored glases, some see it through sweet shades, and others stand on the fence post watching the circus play out their merry tune....How do you view it?

me....i'm on the fencepost with a bucket of popcorn, a beer, and a cheshires smile enjoying the show.


"it can't rain all the time......"

MacDeath
05-18-2013, 12:41 AM
My 2 cents... Since Defiance has no subscription income, it's heavily dependent on game sales to bring in more money than is being spent to support /enhance the game. (yes, they can also get revenue from Store item sales and DLC sales, but these sources are dependent on initial game sales).

IMO, Defiance needed to get big numbers from Console gamers, as there are so many more of them than the PC gamers. And, console gamers are heavily influenced by metacritic scores, and Defiance has low scores. See this article: http://penny-arcade.com/report/article/na

So, IMO, it isn't the fanboys who are responsible for Defiances difficulties, it's the low scores.

Xanirus
05-18-2013, 12:52 AM
I've always wondered as what clearly defines someone as being a "fanboy."

If it's someone who will blindly praise, accept, or see the good in every aspect of development and progress in a game despite the general consensus,, I can understand.

If it's someone who fully acknowledges a game's flaws or short-comings, but still plays the game because they at least find some enjoyment out of it in hopes of it becoming better, while not trying to defame the game every chance he gets, that I'd defiantly consider myself a fanboy.

LifeExpectancy
05-18-2013, 01:03 AM
Lets hope the bulk of the layoffs were the team in charge of fixing Freight and they get new/better talent on it. Although everyone knows simply getting rid of the parasites spawned by infectors would fix Freight amd prevent shadow wars from being completely broken too.

KeevanSixx
05-18-2013, 01:09 AM
I've always wondered as what clearly defines someone as being a "fanboy."

If it's someone who will blindly praise, accept, or see the good in every aspect of development and progress in a game despite the general consensus,, I can understand.

If it's someone who fully acknowledges a game's flaws or short-comings, but still plays the game because they at least find some enjoyment out of it in hopes of it becoming better, while not trying to defame the game every chance he gets, that I'd defiantly consider myself a fanboy.

agreed, happily....

but for this community i think the definitions are

Fanboy (n) fan-boi. A gamer who is obsessed with his/her chosen game title. Attacks all negativity, criticisims, or suggestions to chosen game that differ from their own.

Hater (n) hay-ter. a gamer who is obsessed with his/her chosen game title. Attacks all Positivity, criticisms, or suggestions to chosen game that differ from their own.

Gamer (n) gay-mer. (1) A player of games. (2) An individual capable of rational thought that acknowledges a game for what it is and plays accordingly. (3) a person that can be easily swayed by emotion. Can swing from fanboy to hater, and vice versa.

there's probably a huge variation and interpretation to this by many many people....but it just seems to fit here so well...

Rakshasa
05-18-2013, 01:46 AM
Your faith in management is remarkable, even if it is completely misguided.

Fact is - the MMO genre is the one most frequently by layoffs:
http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/03/21/mmo-devs-most-in-danger-of-layoffs-study-claims/

Not a good sign? I'll agree there. Some kind of rarity that indicates the sky is falling? Nope.

And not all that unusual, especially in the online gaming genre. As pointed out ad inifinitum elsewhere, both in this case and in the case of past games where this happens, it takes a lot more people on staff to create a game from square one, than it does to simply maintain and operate one, once it's released.

Xanirus
05-18-2013, 02:09 AM
agreed, happily....

but for this community i think the definitions are

Fanboy (n) fan-boi. A gamer who is obsessed with his/her chosen game title. Attacks all negativity, criticisims, or suggestions to chosen game that differ from their own.

Hater (n) hay-ter. a gamer who is obsessed with his/her chosen game title. Attacks all Positivity, criticisms, or suggestions to chosen game that differ from their own.

Gamer (n) gay-mer. (1) A player of games. (2) An individual capable of rational thought that acknowledges a game for what it is and plays accordingly. (3) a person that can be easily swayed by emotion. Can swing from fanboy to hater, and vice versa.

there's probably a huge variation and interpretation to this by many many people....but it just seems to fit here so well...

Oh my.....I always thought the term "Gaymer" was....um....more literal than that.

MaSh_MaN94
05-18-2013, 02:09 AM
This guys right. If you went to a restaurant and had a really **** meal but didn't complain,instead you praise them for such a wonderful meal,they will continue too cook the same old **** until no one will really eat there anymore and the business will close.Unless enough people complain about the food the restaurant is serving then they will start too change things.

Rakshasa
05-18-2013, 02:17 AM
This guys right. If you went to a restaurant and had a really **** meal but didn't complain,instead you praise them for such a wonderful meal,they will continue too cook the same old **** until no one will really eat there anymore and the business will close.Unless enough people complain about the food the restaurant is serving then they will start too change things.

Interesting analogy, holds true in reverse, as well. If you had a good meal at a restaurant, and you enjoyed it and felt you'd gotten more than your money's worth, you would have absolutely no reason to complain. And you're not under any obligation to complain, or abuse the wait staff, or act like a d'bag in general, just because a guy doing that at another table isn't happy with his meal, and therefore thinks you shouldn't be either.

Woody92
05-18-2013, 02:19 AM
A + 4 = pantaloons

#fact?

B + 63 x zipper = Sasquatch
and THAT....is a FACT!

Valanga
05-18-2013, 02:20 AM
Fanboys are responsible for the layoffs at Tron and if they do not change their attitude they will be responsible for the closure of the entire studio.

http://www.myfacewhen.net/uploads/2103-youre-a-special-kind-of-stupid-arent-you.jpg

Chaostheory
05-18-2013, 02:24 AM
Fanboys are responsible for the layoffs at Tron and if they do not change their attitude they will be responsible for the closure of the entire studio.

Why?

It's simple.

Take for example this weeks tv show tie in content.

Fanboys are praising the 30min worth of content and how awesome and epic it was! While the rest of us were very disappointed.

Let's be realistic your average gamer who does not visit these forums is not going to be entertained with 30min worth of content none of which is unqiue. So what happens? They slowly begin to play less and less as there is nothing new to offer. Then bam you fanboys come on the forum and praise Trion for a wonderful job and they think what they created was enough to satisfy and continue upon their mediocre path.

Maybe you just still don't understand let me explain again...

Blindly supporting anything and everything Trion does with Defiance not help this game.

You may call me a troll or you may call me negative but I want to push Trion to make the best game possible. They need honest feedback and we will NEVER see improvements if you keep up the fanboy behavior.

It's okay to like the game but not pushing the developer to create and deliver upon a better experience will get us all no where.

Mark my words this forum has some of the biggest fanboy behavior I have ever witnessed. Defiance is a game that is in POOR condition right now and fanboys can keep hiding the fact and kill Defiance the game and Trion the game studio.

Or you start being honest and pushing Trion to actually improve the quality of this game and watch them prosper.

The choice is yours...

kill or help Trion?


Your a idiot.

Schwa
05-18-2013, 02:26 AM
Your a idiot.

When calling someone an idiot on the internet, please research advanced apostrophe theory beforehand.

Space_Monky
05-18-2013, 02:30 AM
Trion will not be a game studio in 6 months if fanboys continue.

#fact

if you're still here trolling in 6 months i will paypal you $1.

Pyrofrost
05-18-2013, 02:43 AM
if you're still here trolling in 6 months i will paypal you $1.

I second this motion.

Valanga
05-18-2013, 02:45 AM
I second this motion.

You're gonna make this kid troll rich...

Pyrofrost
05-18-2013, 02:55 AM
You're gonna make this kid troll rich...

I'm banking on his attention span being shorter than a flea's. Notice how he stopped commenting after a few pages? I doubt he could keep this up until August. I think my nest-egg is safe :)

TravelerX1
05-18-2013, 03:29 AM
Quick, get the OP a job in the Obama Administration..... I think he would be right at home

nitroz76
05-18-2013, 03:30 AM
Trion is responsible for the layoffs at trion.

Space_Monky
05-18-2013, 04:04 AM
You're gonna make this kid troll rich...

lmao, i doubt he will be here in 6 weeks let alone 6 months.


Quick, get the OP a job in the Obama Administration..... I think he would be right at home

i voted for obama twice... you're welcome.

Armitage
05-18-2013, 04:54 AM
I am now ego 5000, with maxed perks, full oranges, unlimited bits and moderator powers.
#fact


Yeah...this...doesn't seem to be working. Stealth nerf?

boblinthegoblin
05-18-2013, 05:25 AM
I am a fanboy, I enjoy the game, layoffs suck, I hope the content carries on being strong and develops quickly with the tv show

bigguy
05-18-2013, 06:49 AM
i have experienced two types of people at support desk some are helpful and resolve your issues quickly , one guy i cant remember his name would just keep spamming same message and saying sorry cant help you , one time i asked him a question and his reply was 69 no words just a number what is that . he is probably one of the ones who lost theyre job i hope. if you wont help a loyal customer with a problem they will leave the game flat.

Fiancee
05-18-2013, 06:52 AM
Well, Im gonna play Elder Scroll Online later this year, maybe you should do?

Doowie
05-18-2013, 06:57 AM
nah the Defiance fanboys can't play the Elderscrolls Online because it will be for PC only, most of the fanboys here for Defiance are the console kiddies :)

DOOM996
05-18-2013, 07:06 AM
nah the Defiance fanboys can't play the Elderscrolls Online because it will be for PC only, most of the fanboys here for Defiance are the console kiddies :)
..and this post can only come from a stupid, trolling PC t-wat! Well done Hinterlader ;)

Durva360
05-18-2013, 07:14 AM
nah the Defiance fanboys can't play the Elderscrolls Online because it will be for PC only, most of the fanboys here for Defiance are the console kiddies :)


This fanboy here will be sure to kill you on Edlerscrolls online ;) Just because we got it for xbox or ps3 doesn't mean we don't play pc. Some of us got it on a console to play with more of our friends.

Spookyy
05-18-2013, 07:26 AM
Considering the lame PC port they had only themself to blame in the end.

UrbanUK
05-18-2013, 07:27 AM
A million or so copies sold... let's be generous and say 1000 fanboys on the forum (and that is being VERY generous!).. 0.1% of the total sales.

I'm surprised by anyone who believes a few fanboys on a forum can have any major influence on a gaming company... i laughed so hard some wee came out :)

Spookyy
05-18-2013, 07:30 AM
A million or so copies sold... let's be generous and say 1000 fanboys on the forum (and that is being VERY generous!).. 0.1% of the total sales.

I'm surprised by anyone who believes a few fanboys on a forum can have any major influence on a gaming company... i laughed so hard some wee came out :)

Fanboys and denial...... 100% true, or something...

ratt707
05-18-2013, 07:41 AM
Neither the fanboys or the anti-fanboys are to blame for the layoffs today.

The poor reception and crashing sales, along with the poor quality of service of Defiance is to blame for the layoffs today.

The truth is making me want to cry.

Starting to think defiance will never become the game it should have been. Frustrating to see a waste in potential.

At least the marketing department didn't see any cuts. They sold people dlcs that don't even exist yet.

They can't patch and release dlc in a timely fashion with the staff they HAD. How are they gonna pull this off with less people?

baelrusk
05-18-2013, 07:46 AM
The truth is making me want to cry.

Starting to think defiance will never become the game it should have been. Frustrating to see a waste in potential.

At least the marketing department didn't see any cuts. They sold people dlcs that don't even exist yet.

They can't patch and release dlc in a timely fashion with the staff they HAD. How are they gonna pull this off with less people?

"Only time will tell"
An old saying which I believe fits things perfectly right now. Trion will probably have a Press Release sometime next week over the layoffs. We can only wait till that.

Valanga
05-18-2013, 07:49 AM
The truth is making me want to cry.

Even arkhunters have feelings...

IGears
05-18-2013, 08:20 AM
Your a idiot.


When calling someone an idiot on the internet, please research advanced apostrophe theory beforehand


I got my laugh here.

ratt707
05-18-2013, 08:31 AM
Even arkhunters have feelings...

Just because we roam the badlands doesn't mean we aren't human ( and votan) :).

Some of those tears are for the $60 I paid.

Ramano
05-18-2013, 08:33 AM
Another thread that needs a close and lock. Thanks mods.

Dooks
05-18-2013, 08:36 AM
Another thread that needs a close and lock. Thanks mods.

Yeah, down with free speech, get a grip

Fenruswolf
05-18-2013, 08:40 AM
I am a huge fan of Defiance, and a big supporter of the game. I do have to admit though, I felt the crossover was a bit light on content. I suppose most of that is due to the fact that I have finished the original content a while back and am waiting for more new stuff. However, the content that was provided by Rynn's appearance was pretty cool.

fang1192
05-18-2013, 08:46 AM
Yeah, down with free speech, get a grip

Thats a stupid argument, considering by accepting the TOU on these forums you already gave them up. Also, American laws do not apply to the internet.

Dooks
05-18-2013, 08:53 AM
Thats a stupid argument, considering by accepting the TOU on these forums you already gave them up. Also, American laws do not apply to the internet.


ummmm ok, wasn't an argument, was a statement for him calling for every post to be closed, and I could give a crap about any other place in the world, free speech should be everywhere period. An you are 100% incorrect, Free speech is a constitutional right in this country, it is never "given up"

Fenruswolf
05-18-2013, 08:54 AM
American laws do apply to the internet, if the website is in fact hosted within the US, or if the content of a website is deemed harmful to national security or limited to age limit due to content. None of which is going on here. You can see how each country applies its own laws to internet use if you do just a little research.

Durva360
05-18-2013, 08:56 AM
Also, American laws do not apply to the internet.

So if someone chose to upload videos of underage girls nude that doesn't violate any laws?

MacDeath
05-18-2013, 09:02 AM
ummmm ok, wasn't an argument, was a statement for him calling for every post to be closed, and I could give a crap about any other place in the world, free speech should be everywhere period. An you are 100% incorrect, Free speech is a constitutional right in this country, it is never "given up"
American's have a right to free speech on public forums. This forum is the private property of Trion and, as such, you are required to post in accordance with the Code of Conduct that you agreed to when you created a forum account. The CoC can be seen here:
http://forums.defiance.com/announcement.php?f=3&a=2

Dooks
05-18-2013, 09:14 AM
American's have a right to free speech on public forums. This forum is the private property of Trion and, as such, you are required to post in accordance with the Code of Conduct that you agreed to when you created a forum account. The CoC can be seen here:
http://forums.defiance.com/announcement.php?f=3&a=2


Your point? Never said Trion "cannot" lock threads. It is their property to do with as they please, does NOT affect my free speech at all. In case you didn't know, free speech comes with consequences depending on what is said no matter where it is practiced.

BTW, I have the right to free speech no matter where I am...again, consequences do exist

All this because I made a wise arse comment about a guy calling for every thread to be locked.

Wraieth
05-18-2013, 09:20 AM
Your point? Never said Trion "cannot" lock threads. It is their property to do with as they please, does NOT affect my free speech at all. In case you didn't know, free speech comes with consequences depending on what is said no matter where it is practiced.

BTW, I have the right to free speech no matter where I am...again, consequences do exist

All this because I made a wise arse comment about a guy calling for every thread to be locked.

psssst over here (i thought it was funny to)

ralisti
05-18-2013, 09:21 AM
People keep referring to Defiance as a MMO. While it is massive multiplayer online, it might as well be a single player TPS. Without any attempt at an economy, socialization (yes, the poorly devised chat system holds a lot of fault) and reason to be social, other players might as well be NPCs.

The game lacks almost ANY reason to be multiplayer other than to have someone driving a truck around to kill the skitterlings and annoy everyone else.

Yes, they may have things in the pipe to justify the multiplayer aspect, but from a consumers perspective it is already too late. It is like buying a car, and the shop tells you to not worry about the missing tire as it is on order and will be in 'soon'.

The game way over hyped, under delivered, and (as can be seen by the layoffs) a massive disappointment.

The only up side is that maybe other game companies will take note and quit turning out shtako games.

baelrusk
05-18-2013, 09:43 AM
psssst over here (i thought it was funny to)

Yeah it was hysterical.
So apparently wherever they go in the world, their rights such as free speech are valid.

I never knew that no matter where in the world you are.....censorship is illegal.......even if it's allowed in the legal system of the area.

No matter what nation you come from, rights such as freedom of speech do not traverse over the internet, just as they do not traverse into other territory.

Just wanted to clear that one up.

Ichidakiller
05-18-2013, 09:48 AM
Trion laying off people isn't a result of fanboys.

Many factors are based when a company does layoffs. Despite what you think companies hate doing layoffs.
The layoffs at Trion have many factors other then just fanboys.

1. Poor game sales
2. Poor revenue from in game store. Minimal content (outfits and headgear) and lockboxes costing way to much.
3. Poor deployment and playability. Some folks not receiving their copy's for weeks and server crashes.
4. Lack of true support from Trion. Minimal patches and content to keep the hardcore from leaving.
5. The haters making 50million threads based off no facts just because they want to vent •cough op cough•

Just a small list of probably hundreds of reasons that Trion has had to lay people off. The fanboys you so hate are the only reason the layoff's didn't happen sooner.

Tbh if Trion doesn't throw everything it has in the next few patches and dlc then more then likely this studio will shut down. Which will be a shame. I love defiance and I would hate to see it closed. But lets face it this is what happens when you hire a bunch of folks that have already been responsible for several other studios shuting down. Listen to the podcast sledgehammer70 resume sounds like a who's who of where are they now. No offense sledge. Just stating fact.

Trion needs to put everything they have and throw up the hailmary at this point. All the resources you got everything you have better go into something that people are willing to throw money into. 2pvp maps at this point better triple that. Shotguns and cloak making most avoid pvp like the plague fix it whether nerfing or buffing others. The void of pursuits and content for anyone past 2k ego fix it. There is alot they could be doing instead of charge blades and this so called dlc they have announced. Unless they do something to fix the basic flaws of the game and keep glossing over them to add more broken useless stuff it won't end well for them.

There is no reason they can't add the content they have announced for dlc and fix the existing broken issues.

Its not looking good I will hope for the best but tbh from what I've seen the last few months and the recently announced dlc I dont see Trion making enough money to save laying off the rest of the staff and filing bankruptcy.

I hope it doesn't go that way as I love playing defiance. If they do close I hope someone pocks up the rights and spends the time fixing the game.

The Lady
05-18-2013, 09:52 AM
From what I read it says they are reorganizing their teams. Since things weren't getting done to customers satisfaction, maybe they let those people go and we will see improvements.

s4breh4wk
05-18-2013, 09:52 AM
defiance is far from being an epic game...but for my 30$ i was well entertained until i reached the point where i found no use
in playing on..since everything was a) too easy b) repetetive c) not rewarding d) the social
features of this game are a catastrophe

i dont regret buying the game ..but i wont shed a tear either when its gone.

The same just happened to me in Neverwinter Online ..and that game has far more
to offer in form of content...and didnt cost me a dime...still f2p games are for me
mostly a short term thing due to the increasing shallowness at later game stages...
(which is honestly even a big problem in games that you pay subscriptions for...look at WOW.)
Im of some age 40+ and have a 35+ year history in playing video/computer games ..maybe
im just too overfed ..i need a story to capture me, i need rewards to make life pleasant in a
game...i need refined social features to have me coming back for people and not only playing...
all of this i dont see at the endgame in Defiance (and most other of games of the type).

Blak
05-18-2013, 09:57 AM
I feel like a Dad watching his son fail over and over at T-Ball.

I want him to hit that ball and knock a home run for his team, but I know deep down my child is inept and bad at sports.

This is how I feel when I watch TRION try to make new Content and or enhance the game with some type of event.

Blak
05-18-2013, 10:01 AM
defiance is far from being an epic game...but for my 30$ i was well entertained until i reached the point where i found no use
in playing on..since everything was a) too easy b) repetetive c) not rewarding d) the social
features of this game are a catastrophe

i dont regret buying the game ..but i wont shed a tear either when its gone.

The same just happened to me in Neverwinter Online ..and that game has far more
to offer in form of content...and didnt cost me a dime...still f2p games are for me
mostly a short term thing due to the increasing shallowness at later game stages...
(which is honestly even a big problem in games that you pay subscriptions for...look at WOW.)

Without trying to come off as a WoW Fanboy, you can't compare the most successful video game in the world to F2P games. WoW has millions of dollars to pull from to work on new content while TRION is lucky to get a hand out from anybody to finance their game. WoW has almost 8 years worth of content with a growing population. TRION would KILL! for a fraction of the population that Blizzard has regularly handing over 15 dollars a month. Also let us not forget WoW's expansion content actually offers a linear progression that you feel, while TRIONS Defiance is one giant mess that a player at EGO level 1 could beat the game. I could go on and on about how WoW is doing it right while TRION is just falling all over the place, but the bottom line is WOW is still around after 8 years and many challengers, while Defiance looks to be already on its way out.

s4breh4wk
05-18-2013, 10:05 AM
Without trying to come off as a WoW Fanboy, you can't compare the most successful video game in the world to F2P games. WoW has millions of dollars to pull from to work on new content while TRION is lucky to get a hand out from anybody to finance their game. WoW has almost 8 years worth of content with a growing population. TRION would KILL! for a fraction of the population that Blizzard has regularly handing over 15 dollars a month. Also let us not forget WoW's expansion content actually offers a linear progression that you feel, while TRIONS Defiance is one giant mess that a player at EGO level 1 could beat the game. I could go on and on about how WoW is doing it right while TRION is just falling all over the place, but the bottom line is WOW is still around after 8 years and many challengers, while Defiance looks to be already on its way out.

Which doesnt make my statement less true that EVEN Wow suffers from the illness of becoming repetetive and shallow once u played thru the content and are hooked up in the everlasting ini grind for the latest gear generation which serves only the purpose of being forfeit as soon as the next major content update is released.

Blak
05-18-2013, 10:08 AM
Which doesnt make my statement less true that EVEN Wow suffers from the illness of becoming repetetive and shallow once u played thru the content and are hooked up in the everlasting ini grind for the latest gear generation which serves only the purpose of being forfeit as soon as the next major content update is released.

right but the point you are missing is that same grind in WOW takes months to fully burn out while the entire game of Defiance takes less time to burn out. So what we are really looking at here is Quality of Content, and arguably wow just does it better.

s4breh4wk
05-18-2013, 10:09 AM
right but the point you are missing is that same grind in WOW takes months to fully burn out while the entire game of Defiance takes less time to burn out. So what we are really looking at here is Quality of Content, and arguably wow just does it better.

which in no word of me was disputed....if you read closely....but lets not argue...were sharing basically the same point of view.

(besides that i invested 100rds of dollars in WOW and only 30$ in defiance^^ so i really dont
want to compare them for AMOUNT of content....quality oh well..theres a huge ton of boring
quests in WoW too :D)

Booshy
05-18-2013, 10:53 AM
The funny thing is, I read things such as people are leaving the game, and blah blah blah, but I've never been in the game when there weren't a lot of people playing. I'm never alone doing a mission-San Fran at first was a dead zone and great for doing arkfalls on your own (lol). But, it's actually been getting busier.

I'm not saying things don't need to be fixed, but the hellbugs were more than just re-textured since they've added new attacks from them and I actually have noticed different new things happening consistently, sometimes good new content and sometimes bad game bugs.

Considering the game phases it could still seem as busy while a lot are actually gone and there are less phases. Plus arkfalls always make it seem busy as people cluster to do those.

The fact that my clan went from 50-60 active players in the first few weeks to about 5-10 when I quit about a week ago says a lot. And I highly doubt my clan was some weird exception and all the other ones are going as strong as ever.

Hiroller
05-18-2013, 10:59 AM
yes they do. layoffs often happen when there's not enough work to go around. if they need to focus on code for a few weeks, there's no point paying artists to sit around doing nothing.

uh how about develop new content?

UrbanUK
05-18-2013, 12:22 PM
WoW has almost 8 years worth of content with a growing population....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22464058

"Subscribers to the online adventure game World of Warcraft have dropped dramatically this year, publisher Activision Blizzard has said. The company said 14% of users left the game between January and March - a fall of 1.3 million.

The majority of lost users were in the East, despite the company making efforts to appeal to those markets, with recent upgrades.

Activision told investors to expect subscriber figures to dip further. Shares in the publisher fell by about 5% on Wednesday, following the news. The California-based company blamed the rise of free-to-play games."

Even the mighty WoW is suffering from the influence of F2P games, which was always to be expected. Any new MMO is going to have to find a way to be financially viable given the rise in F2P games.. why pay when you can play for free?

Blackwolfe
05-18-2013, 12:22 PM
Bohoo, fanboys are bad blablabla.

Most of the ones people claim to be "Fanboys" are often very passionate about the game, true. But we "Fanboys" (whoever came up with that ******ed word anyway?) want the game to succeed as much as anyone. We are fully aware of the bugs and issues, and we also come post about the issues wanting those issues to be fixed. People are fully aware of that there needs to be more content added soon. The difference is, we have not yet lost hope or faith in trion. There is great potential in the game and it can still be the game we all want it to be.

Thats all.

Durva360
05-18-2013, 12:30 PM
Bohoo, fanboys are bad blablabla.

Most of the ones people claim to be "Fanboys" are often very passionate about the game, true. But we "Fanboys" (whoever came up with that ******ed word anyway?) want the game to succeed as much as anyone. We are fully aware of the bugs and issues, and we also come post about the issues wanting those issues to be fixed. People are fully aware of that there needs to be more content added soon. The difference is, we have not yet lost hope or faith in trion. There is great potential in the game and it can still be the game we all want it to be.

Thats all.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

mrarkhunter
05-18-2013, 12:46 PM
I'm glad to see so many people agree with my opinion in this thread since I last visited!

DAWG
05-18-2013, 12:46 PM
Fanboys are responsible for the layoffs at Tron and if they do not change their attitude they will be responsible for the closure of the entire studio.

Why?

It's simple.

Take for example this weeks tv show tie in content.

Fanboys are praising the 30min worth of content and how awesome and epic it was! While the rest of us were very disappointed.

Let's be realistic your average gamer who does not visit these forums is not going to be entertained with 30min worth of content none of which is unqiue. So what happens? They slowly begin to play less and less as there is nothing new to offer. Then bam you fanboys come on the forum and praise Trion for a wonderful job and they think what they created was enough to satisfy and continue upon their mediocre path.

Maybe you just still don't understand let me explain again...

Blindly supporting anything and everything Trion does with Defiance not help this game.

You may call me a troll or you may call me negative but I want to push Trion to make the best game possible. They need honest feedback and we will NEVER see improvements if you keep up the fanboy behavior.

It's okay to like the game but not pushing the developer to create and deliver upon a better experience will get us all no where.

Mark my words this forum has some of the biggest fanboy behavior I have ever witnessed. Defiance is a game that is in POOR condition right now and fanboys can keep hiding the fact and kill Defiance the game and Trion the game studio.

Or you start being honest and pushing Trion to actually improve the quality of this game and watch them prosper.

The choice is yours...

kill or help Trion?


Exactly what you said sir... "the poor quality of service of Defiance is to blame for the layoffs today"

That is a direct result of fanboys

So let me recap... you're talking bolloks! Seems you're not sure what is responsible for the layoffs, you're just talking out your arse for the sake of saying something.

Hiroller
05-18-2013, 01:03 PM
Fanboy/Fanboi - Definition:

1. A person who is completely loyal to a game or company reguardless of if it sucks or not.

other terms:

White Knight, brown noser, as s kisser/kiss as s, shoe shiner, chump, and c ock swollwer/gobbler.

*screenshot

EdgeTW
05-18-2013, 01:10 PM
Bohoo, fanboys are bad blablabla.

Most of the ones people claim to be "Fanboys" are often very passionate about the game, true. But we "Fanboys" (whoever came up with that ******ed word anyway?) want the game to succeed as much as anyone. We are fully aware of the bugs and issues, and we also come post about the issues wanting those issues to be fixed. People are fully aware of that there needs to be more content added soon. The difference is, we have not yet lost hope or faith in trion. There is great potential in the game and it can still be the game we all want it to be.

Thats all.

I think there's some confusion about the term "fanboy". Wanting the game to succeed doesn't make you a fanboy. In fact, many people who offer criticism do so because they desperately want the game to succeed, enough so that they're willing to take time out of their lives to point out problems and suggest solutions. And yet, these people are often mislabeled as trolls (usually by fanboys).

A fanboy in Defiance (or any MMO) is biased individual who believes this game is nearly perfect, someone who can't (and refuses to try to) understand why the game received so many mediocre reviews, and someone who has the annoying habit of charging in to defend the game any time someone offers a criticism (even if said criticism is justified and presented in a constructive manner, because in their extremely biased mind there's nothing about Defiance that justifies complaining in the first place).

Here's an example as it pertains to Defiance (and an example of how a fanboy can assist in damaging a game). Some players voiced concern about Defiance's chances to be successful as an MMO because it lacked too many basic MMO features.. social hubs, crafting, more missions, a better and bigger world design, etc. These are things that would only enhance the appeal of the game to the general audience while not detracting from its shooter gameplay elements. Unfortunately, many fanboys (whether they were Defiance fanboys or shooter fanboys) frequently stomped all over these discussions because they were convinced the current game design was enough to be a huge success, that Defiance was a shooter and this is how shooters are.

It's both funny and sad, because you would have to be extremely naive and/or biased to believe that Defiance would ever, in its current state, be a huge success. Fans are quick to chalk it up to hindsight being 20/20, but no.. for many gamers the problems were plain as day before this game ever launched. They're not psychic, they're just paying attention and not allowing the hype and their bias to get the better of them.

Unfortunately, there are people that still believe that Defiance should be a success, that to this day can not understand why the game isn't being received better, and that (sadly) probably includes some of the people who were high enough up in the development chain to mold Defiance into the game it is now. Developers don't shoot for mediocrity. They believe in something and try to make it a reality, and if they're smart they check the pulse of their audience along the way and make adjustments to their design as needed to ensure they're creating a successful game, rather than a game that's a success only in their dreams.

Now, the danger comes when you have people in management who are so stuck on their vision that the only feedback they're willing to consider are those opinions that mirror or reinforce their own. And fanboys are just the kinds of people who help convince these misguided designers that they're on the right track, that their philosophy should never waver, that their logic and design is sound. And they are right there with the fanboys saying "I don't get it..?" when the disappointing reviews start rolling in. To use another real world example, it is like living in a bubble with a news station that presents a lopsided point of view politically, and then being unpleasantly surprised when an election you believed was in the bag went totally the other way.

Simply put, fanboys provide the koolaid bad developers keep drinking. If you have good designers, the damage fanboys can do is limited.. mostly in their rush to defend anything and everything about a game they create noise that makes it difficult to tune into legitimate feedback. But when paired with bad designers they can create a recipe for disaster and failure, every time, because a game will rarely grow beyond the flawed vision they're so blindly supporting.

Nerotic
05-18-2013, 01:16 PM
While I do always ask for Fixes over content on these kinds of threads. The new episode content was honestly better than what I would expect for the type of content it represents. I kinda enjoyed fighting the rogue E-rep guys... aka a new thing shoot at.. they were actually a little dangerous. As far as you complainants about a typical MMO run around mission go I have ask what made you think these episode mission were not going to mainly be more or less like this with maybe... maybe a few really nifty ones.

Hiroller
05-18-2013, 01:19 PM
I think there's some confusion about the term "fanboy". Wanting the game to succeed doesn't make you a fanboy. In fact, many people who offer criticism do so because they desperately want the game to succeed, enough so that they're willing to take time out of their lives to point out problems and suggest solutions. And yet, these people are often mislabeled as trolls (usually by fanboys).

A fanboy in Defiance (or any MMO) is biased individual who believes this game is nearly perfect, someone who can't (and refuses to try to) understand why the game received so many mediocre reviews, and someone who has the annoying habit of charging in to defend the game any time someone offers a criticism (even if said criticism is justified and presented in a constructive manner, because in their extremely biased mind there's nothing about Defiance that justifies complaining in the first place).

Here's an example as it pertains to Defiance (and an example of how a fanboy can assist in damaging a game). Some players voiced concern about Defiance's chances to be successful as an MMO because it lacked too many basic MMO features.. social hubs, crafting, more missions, a better and bigger world design, etc. These are things that would only enhance the appeal of the game to the general audience while not detracting from its shooter gameplay elements. Unfortunately, many fanboys (whether they were Defiance fanboys or shooter fanboys) frequently stomped all over these discussions because they were convinced the current game design was enough to be a huge success, that Defiance was a shooter and this is how shooters are.

It's both funny and sad, because you would have to be extremely naive and/or biased to believe that Defiance would ever, in its current state, be a huge success. Fans are quick to chalk it up to hindsight being 20/20, but no.. for many gamers the problems were plain as day before this game ever launched. They're not psychic, they're just paying attention and not allowing the hype and their bias to get the better of them.

Unfortunately, there are people that still believe that Defiance should be a success, that to this day can not understand why the game isn't being received better, and that (sadly) probably includes some of the people who were high enough up in the development chain to mold Defiance into the game it is now. Developers don't shoot for mediocrity. They believe in something and try to make it a reality, and if they're smart they check the pulse of their audience along the way and make adjustments to their design as needed to ensure they're creating a successful game, rather than a game that's a success only in their dreams.

Now, the danger comes when you have people in management who are so stuck on their vision that the only feedback they're willing to consider are those opinions that mirror or reinforce their own. And fanboys are just the kinds of people who help convince these misguided designers that they're on the right track, that their philosophy should never waver, that their logic and design is sound. And they are right there with the fanboys saying "I don't get it..?" when the disappointing reviews start rolling in. To use another real world example, it is like living in a bubble with a news station that presents a lopsided point of view politically, and then being unpleasantly surprised when an election you believed was in the bag went totally the other way.

Simply put, fanboys provide the koolaid bad developers keep drinking. If you have good designers, the damage fanboys can do is limited.. mostly in their rush to defend anything and everything about a game they create noise that makes it difficult to tune into legitimate feedback. But when paired with bad designers they can create a recipe for disaster and failure, every time, because a game will rarely grow beyond the flawed vision they're so blindly supporting.

One of the best walls I've read here.

On top of all this games problems, breakers or not; the cherry on top, for me, was lack of cover system. say what you will but i personally won't accept that in a tps.

now think about this, i'm nitpicking here, there are way worse problems with this game...

Biznatchio
05-18-2013, 01:29 PM
A fanboy in Defiance (or any MMO) is biased individual who believes this game is nearly perfect, someone who can't (and refuses to try to) understand why the game received so many mediocre reviews, and someone who has the annoying habit of charging in to defend the game any time someone offers a criticism (even if said criticism is justified and presented in a constructive manner, because in their extremely biased mind there's nothing about Defiance that justifies complaining in the first place).


Bottom line as a PC player this game is not worth the $60.00 that they asked for.

If this is the type of content console players think is good and are willing to shell out $60.00 and not demand quality product then I worry for PC content getting even more dumbed down.

Fiox
05-18-2013, 01:31 PM
Ignore mrarkhunter hes a terrible troll who has no life

Hiroller
05-18-2013, 01:40 PM
Bottom line as a PC player this game is not worth the $60.00 that they asked for.

If this is the type of content console players think is good and are willing to shell out $60.00 and not demand quality product then I worry for PC content getting even more dumbed down.

exactly. sometimes i feel the only reason these people put the "mmo" label on this thing was to limit the pirates. they even failed there.

*screenshot

Antimony
05-18-2013, 01:55 PM
right but the point you are missing is that same grind in WOW takes months to fully burn out while the entire game of Defiance takes less time to burn out. So what we are really looking at here is Quality of Content, and arguably wow just does it better.

WOW = MMORPG, Defiance = MMOTPS

If you don't know the difference, a) educate yourself before posting and b) play an MMORPG if you want grind-type progression.

PVP is and has always been the endgame for TPS/FPS type games!

EdgeTW
05-18-2013, 02:03 PM
WOW = MMORPG, Defiance = MMOTPS

If you don't know the difference, a) educate yourself before posting and b) play an MMORPG if you want grind-type progression.

PVP is and has always been the endgame for TPS/FPS type games!

What an odd point of view. You talk as if PvP isn't an endgame for products like World of Warcraft. If PvP is your thing, WoW has an end game to support that. Battelgrounds, Arenas, open-world PvP, rankings, for a while it was even an e-sport.. I'm not sure what more a PvP lover in WoW could ask for.

It also has a PvE endgame as well, if that's your preference.

What you seem to be implying is, unlike other MMOs, an MMOTPS like Defiance is pathetically limited to a single type of end-game (PvP). That you're unable to imagine a PvE endgame for an MMOTPS like Defiance that is built on a fair bit of PvE gameplay is a little disturbing. Don't become a game developer if that's the case.

I'm curious.. what exactly do you think non-PvP fans should be doing in an MMOTPS? Avoiding the product entirely? You are exactly who this thread is for. You're coming across like a PvP fanboy.. you jump on a legitimate post because it offends your lopsided, PvP-biased mentality of how games like Defiance should be designed. I bet in your mind PvP is all this game needs to succeed, and everything else is a waste of time and development effort. If true, you're delusional and kidding yourself (and not doing the game any good in the process).

Antimony
05-18-2013, 02:27 PM
What an odd point of view. You talk as if PvP isn't an endgame for products like World of Warcraft. If PvP is your thing, WoW has an end game to support that. Battelgrounds, Arenas, open-world PvP, rankings, for a while it was even an e-sport.. I'm not sure what more a PvP lover in WoW could ask for.

It also has a PvE endgame as well, if that's your preference.

What you seem to be implying is, unlike other MMOs, an MMOTPS like Defiance is pathetically limited to a single type of end-game (PvP). That you're unable to imagine a PvE endgame for an MMOTPS like Defiance that is built on a fair bit of PvE gameplay is a little disturbing. Don't become a game developer if that's the case.

Ah, another person who doesn't understand the difference.

WoW failed as an E-sport because it is an MMORPG with all the balance issues that come that.
Read up on it, it's documented.

MMORPGs have always been first and foremost about PVE and the reason is simple:
For endgame PVE content (raids), you need specialized classes (tanks/healers), often with special gear/abilities.
Balancing PVE and PVP is the biggest challenge for any MMORPG that wants to have PVP as more than just a side-show attraction.
This obstacle will remain until NPCs become more like players, more AI and less HPs, etc.

On the other hand, MMOTPS traditionally don't have "raids".
They don't need special classes or special PVE gear/abilities, and therefore, are much easier to balance.
Hence, TPS/FPS games well suited for PVP content and poorly equipped to handle PVE raids.
Naturally, TPS games can have a PVE storyline, but that does not make them PVE games comparable to MMORPGS.

"Pathetically limited to PVP"? You must be a PVEer who failed at PVP, no? ;)

EdgeTW
05-18-2013, 02:57 PM
Ah, another person who doesn't understand the difference.

WoW failed as an E-sport because it is an MMORPG with all the balance issues that come that.
Read up on it, it's documented.

I'm well aware of WoW's history as an e-sport. That's why I said "for a while it was even an e-sport..".

You act as if the MMOTPS genre you're apparently so protective of is flooded with e-sport material. Defiance? No, not likely ever. APB? Nope. Planetside 2? Not yet.



"Pathetically limited to PVP"? You must be a PVEer who failed at PVP, no? ;)
No. Don't misquote me and then attack the misquote. What I said was "What you seem to be implying is, unlike other MMOs, an MMOTPS like Defiance is pathetically limited to a single type of end-game (PvP). " And that was in reference to the fact that many MMO have more PvP gameplay options available than Defiance, and yet still manage to sport a strong PvE end-game as well.

And, yes, you're making it sound like Defiance can't be both, that it's doomed to be limited to only one brand of end-game (PvP, in your mind). Whether it's a PvE only end-game or PvP only end-game, the result would still be the same by today's standards.. pathetically limited when so many other MMOs are able to pull off both. It's not an MMORPG versus MMOTPS thing, it's a feature-rich versus feature-lacking problem.

So, to answer your question, no, I'm not "a PVEer who failed at PVP". I'm a gamer who enjoys both and is well aware that an MMO can successfully be both (something you seem not to understand). But, why don't you explain to everyone where the bad PvE game touched you? :rolleyes:

Sideras
05-18-2013, 03:02 PM
So Trion is getting the wrong feedback, well yeah when the game suffers and people still praise it then yes if that's all they listen too. But they should also have the competence to make the optimal decisions themselves.

It's easier with things like EA products; keep buying their crap and they'll keep producing more crap.

Enablers is what I call them. ****e Enablers.

WhiteCell
05-18-2013, 03:07 PM
WOW = MMORPG, Defiance = MMOTPS

If you don't know the difference, a) educate yourself before posting and b) play an MMORPG if you want grind-type progression.

PVP is and has always been the endgame for TPS/FPS type games!

This is humorous because Defiance's PvP doesn't exist. There is nothing there for any sort of competitive PvP nor is there any indication that Trion thought PvP was integral to Defiance or it's designation as an MMO.

You just completely made something up to validate whatever and in doing so completely nullified your whole stance because the facts say otherwise.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Antimony
05-18-2013, 03:20 PM
I'm well aware of WoW's history as an e-sport. That's why I said "for a while it was even an e-sport..".

You act as if the MMOTPS genre you're apparently so protective of is flooded with e-sport material. Defiance? No, not likely ever. APB? Nope. Planetside 2? Not yet.


No. Don't misquote me and then attack the misquote. What I said was "What you seem to be implying is, unlike other MMOs, an MMOTPS like Defiance is pathetically limited to a single type of end-game (PvP). " And that was in reference to the fact that many MMO have more PvP gameplay options available than Defiance, and yet still manage to sport a strong PvE end-game as well.

And, yes, you're making it sound like Defiance can't be both, that it's doomed to be limited to only one brand of end-game (PvP, in your mind). Whether it's a PvE only end-game or PvP only end-game, the result would still be the same by today's standards.. pathetically limited when so many other MMOs are able to pull off both. It's not an MMORPG versus MMOTPS thing, it's a feature-rich versus feature-lacking problem.

So, to answer your question, no, I'm not "a PVEer who failed at PVP". I'm a gamer who enjoys both and is well aware that an MMO can successfully be both (something you seem not to understand). But, why don't you explain to everyone where the bad PvE game touched you? :rolleyes:

...and yet you still don't understand the difference between MMORPG and MMOTPS. :(

Show me an MMORPG that has balanced PVP (good enough to be an e-sport) and/or a MMOTPS/FPS that has RPG-type PVE raids.

I tried to explain to you why the different game types exist and until someone manages to successfully merge the two genres, it is pointless to continue this discussion.

Antimony
05-18-2013, 03:24 PM
This is humorous because Defiance's PvP doesn't exist. There is nothing there for any sort of competitive PvP nor is there any indication that Trion thought PvP was integral to Defiance or it's designation as an MMO.

You just completely made something up to validate whatever and in doing so completely nullified your whole stance because the facts say otherwise.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

...and that is why I've been asking for competitive PVP content!

Just curious, if you have uninstalled, why are you still here?
Shouldn't you be playing/posting at Battlefield 3? ;)

Random
05-18-2013, 03:24 PM
...and yet you still don't understand the difference between MMORPG and MMOTPS. :(

Show me an MMORPG that has balanced PVP (good enough to be an e-sport) and/or a MMOTPS/FPS that has RPG-type PVE raids.

I tried to explain to you why the different game types exist and until someone manages to successfully merge the two genres, it is pointless to continue this discussion.

His flaw is he wants end game.

End game is a joke in mmo's it is the word devs use to carrot your dumbass through 50+ levels. "Endgame" is nothing more than Greener grass on the other side. It's BS folks. You just keep wanting to add it in to all persistent games that...never end.

See? See your problem once again you want what is clearly on the market already and you want it in defiance. You folks can keep your mmorpg style "end game" meanwhile you play defiance and not that old mmo right? (If you have time for both than I applaud your lack of real life motivation).

EdgeTW
05-18-2013, 03:54 PM
...and yet you still don't understand the difference between MMORPG and MMOTPS. :(

Show me an MMORPG that has balanced PVP (good enough to be an e-sport) and/or a MMOTPS/FPS that has RPG-type PVE raids.

I tried to explain to you why the different game types exist and until someone manages to successfully merge the two genres, it is pointless to continue this discussion.

Uh.. I'm still waiting on you to cite some MMOTPS/FPS examples that are "good enough to be an E-sport". In fact, I'm not even sure why you're going on about this on the first place as you have no leg to stand on here. Do you fancy Defiance as an e-sport in the making or something?

As wrong as your conclusion is, I honestly don't care what you think I do or don't understand.

However, I find it odd that you see a gun and a crosshair and in your mind that's a shooter, only a shooter, and can never be anything but a shooter. Where as I see just another combat mechanic that can be applied to almost anything, one of the many that are available to an MMO design, whether they end up as tab-target combat mechanics like WoW, or more action based like twitch/aim-based mechanics like Defiance and TERA, or some sort of hybrid like DCUO and GW2.

What do you think is going to happen if shooter combat mechanics are plugged into a fleshed out game design like Guild Wars 2? I assure you the world won't explode. Gamers heads might with joy, however. And why, suddenly, would the inclusion of guns, a crosshair, and an aiming mechanic suddenly scream "no PvE end-game content" to you? I think some of the more action-oriented MMOs would like to have a word with you.

You might want to check out Global Agenda, by the way, if you're looking for examples of an MMO with raid and shooter mechanics combined.

EdgeTW
05-18-2013, 04:05 PM
His flaw is he wants end game.

End game is a joke in mmo's it is the word devs use to carrot your dumbass through 50+ levels. "Endgame" is nothing more than Greener grass on the other side. It's BS folks. You just keep wanting to add it in to all persistent games that...never end.

See? See your problem once again you want what is clearly on the market already and you want it in defiance. You folks can keep your mmorpg style "end game" meanwhile you play defiance and not that old mmo right? (If you have time for both than I applaud your lack of real life motivation).

Actually, an end-game is just something to do when you reach max level (and have consumed the game's content on your way to that point). Something that gives you a reason to keep playing that character. Because, while shooting the virtual gun off is fun and all, I think anyone would eventually grow bored with blowing up hellbugs without a more meaningful purpose. Even the less predictable nature of PvP grows stale eventually without a carrot to pursue (for me, anyway).

My raiding days are behind me, although I'm not going to ignore they represent the end-game for some people. End-game for me is just "stuff to do to keep me entertained". On the PvE front, whether that's chasing skins, cool new toys, playing through player designed content like Cryptic's Foundry (and designing player made content), guild activities, more means of customizing my character, whatever.. it's all good as long as it entertains me, and there's no reason an MMO "shooter" can't have that and still be an MMO shooter. Shooting is just a combat mechanic, not a restrictive set of rules an MMO needs to be designed around.

Unfortunately, that's exactly what happened to Defiance, and that's why it didn't succeed like it could have.

Thorne25
05-18-2013, 04:09 PM
Hi everyone,

We have closed this thread and would like to take a moment to explain why. We do welcome all feedback, even when it is negative or critical, but we do ask that it is respectful and constructive, please.

If anyone has questions or concerns about this thread closure, please feel free to contact us at community@defiance.com.

Thank you!