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View Full Version : The Problem With Defiance: A Noobs Input



Adal8807
05-24-2013, 03:05 PM
I have recently been very surprised with what Trion has been doing to Defiance. It's not a good surprise either. This is a list of things that are wrong (in my unprofessional opinion), and a list of what I think they could change to make the game shine again. Even though it never really shined only had a slight glimmer of hope, anyways, here we go folks!

Issue 1: Defiance is to Noob Friendly.

Now here is what I mean. When a person who picks up this game for the first time can compete with someone who is 5,000 ego, there is a slight problem. Now let's look at this logically. Lets say you have been working a job for 5 years, each year you hope to an increase to your salary but low and behold each year it is the same thing. You've put 5 years into the company so naturally you would expect to be paid more than the 18 year old who has been working the same job for 2 weeks.

The same goes with defiance, I can put 5000 hours in and still get destroyed by some beginner with a shotgun.

Here is how I think it should be fixed: Every 100 ego levels the player chooses 1 bonus to their character. The bonus' could be Gun Damage, Melee Damage, Reload Times, Movement Speed, etc. I'm sure I could think of 1,000 bonuses but ill stop there. Each bonus is 1% and you cannot choose the same bonus more than 15 times.

Issue 2: Weapon Scaling.

I know there are due hard fans that love the way the weapon system works, that's fine, that is your opinion and your free to express it here but here is the problem I see with it. It's extremely discouraging. According to chance, I could technically start a brand new character, buy a lock box, get a legendary, and be set for the rest of the game. Now this is highly unlikely of course but it is still a chance. You may think what is wrong with this? Well think about it, for the rest of the game, you may never ever ever ever get another legendary that could compete. Sure there are synergies that may matter, but those are what I call illusionary factors. They are a way to get you as a player to spend money, bits, scrip, and salvage.

His to fix this: Allow players to upgrade the stats of a weapon once you have leveled it.

What I mean by this is let's say you level up a weapon, you can then spend this level point to upgrade the stats of a weapon by x%. This percentage should be random. If you have a high level in that weapon lets say your level in smgs is 20, well, now your chance of getting the highest bonus percentage is increased by 20%. This would also mean that a weapons xp bar resets and you can restart the process with the increased stat. This could be capped at 5 times.

Final Issue: Health.

This is something not very many people recognize as an issue. Health should increase with ego, it only makes since when you analyze it. See health is an issue because the way it is now, a player at 5,000 ego has the Sam health as a ego level 1 player. Now there is the bonus 225 to health perk but seriously? You do realize that, that is only a 1 shot difference with most weapons. With lmgs that's half a bullet. Health NEEDS to scale this way weapon scaling and ego scaling can coexist. War is time, time is precious, and and war of clones leads to the same results everytime.

How to fix this issue: Simple, 10% increase to health every 500 ego levels. I shouldn't have to e plain why this is beneficial but I will. This adds a curve, in every game I can think of health scales with leveling. What's fun about every single person in the game having the same amount of health? This isn't call of duty, battlefield, or halo. Not even close really. Health in pvp can be the same, I could live with that, we have shields that vary in numbers. But in pve/single player I feel as if it should definitely be something to be added. This way difficulty balances out, this way experienced players can counter the cluster ****s of enemies with dead aim accuracy.

Anyways tell me what you think, would love to have your input.

ZGM
05-24-2013, 03:11 PM
I like your solutions to the first and third issues, but I'm not sold on your fix to the second. Something does need to be done with weapon scaling, but your idea, if anything, encourages people to stick with the same weapons for their entire run through the game, instead of giving them an incentive to find a great EGO 5000 weapon.

Adal8807
05-24-2013, 03:17 PM
I like your solutions to the first and third issues, but I'm not sold on your fix to the second. Something does need to be done with weapon scaling, but your idea, if anything, encourages people to stick with the same weapons for their entire run through the game, instead of giving them an incentive to find a great EGO 5000 weapon.

Well exactly, as it is now there is no incentive to stick with weapons. A lot of people can level a weapon in a day and be done with it and scrap it. This way, you stick with the guns you love and want to perfect, and this allows your weapon to have a sense of personality. You can take comfort in knowing that there may be few people in the game with a weapon that's exactly the same stats wise.

Not only does it make a player want to keep the weapon, it's also giving players the want of finding another weapon and doing the same. Customize it to fit your personality outside of the bland modding system. That to this day I still don't believe has the diversity people expected.

Adal8807
05-24-2013, 03:36 PM
3 views and the threads that have no constructive ideas or opinions get well over 100 pages... Shows how full of shtako this community is...

fatoldguy
05-24-2013, 03:49 PM
3 views and the threads that have no constructive ideas or opinions get well over 100 pages... Shows how full of shtako this community is...

LOL a bit full of yourself? Let me get this straight, the community sucks because they did not flock to your thread and say how wonderful it is? There have been many threads just like it, most with more constructive input, they have been read and we moved on.

darnokfx
05-24-2013, 03:58 PM
The Simple answer is that Ranking and Ego mean nothing in the Defiance Universe.
The ONLY reason I can see to get a Higher Rank/Ego is to open up more perk slots.
Every weapon/grenade/shield is no better or worse the higher the rank/ego.
You just get more perks.
Oh and a few more missions/co-op maps open up.

xHEADHUNTERZx
05-24-2013, 04:06 PM
Hardcore gaming died long time ago now its only casual and assisted gaming....

Kiserai
05-24-2013, 04:07 PM
Every weapon/grenade/shield is no better or worse the higher the rank/ego. I don't think that's accurate. Weapons get more frequent and higher-tier synergies and inherent bonuses, while the stats on shields and grenades seem to slowly climb.

fang1192
05-24-2013, 04:18 PM
So basically do what every other MMO does? And let numbers decide the outcome of a fight over skill?

Avril Parker
05-24-2013, 04:25 PM
Game actually is based around skill, not gear.

You want to change that why? There's just one answer to that, and we all know that one.

Rebel Raven
05-24-2013, 04:36 PM
Kinda sounds like you wanna rofflestomp newbies with a cry for not allowing a low ego character compete with a high ego character, and following through with the idea that a high ego character should have stronger weapons. That is, unless you're low in ego levels, then you'll get oneshotted, and have no chance vs someone with a higher ego level.

And you're never "set" once you have a weapon. Once a weapon maxes out in XP it can add to yours, then you get no more Xp, thus no more bonuses. Sure they might be tiny bonuses towards reloading, and such, but they exist.

Perks can make something of a diffirence, too. A person with high ego can have more, and will have stronger versions.

Seriously, have you thought about how negatively it'll impact PvP when a level 5000 can go fight a lvl 20 with your ideas implimented?

You'd need matchmaking to prevent that, or pvp will DIE because who in their right mind wants to be the lvl 20 fighting a clan of lvl 5000s? Matchmaking doesn't seem to be an easy thing with that much of a gap to cover.

The PvP aspect is supposed to be akin to compeditive shooters in the vein of Call of Duty, and Modern warfare where, ideally, everyone should have a shot to win.

Kutsune
05-24-2013, 04:37 PM
I have recently been very surprised with what Trion has been doing to Defiance. It's not a good surprise either. This is a list of things that are wrong (in my unprofessional opinion), and a list of what I think they could change to make the game shine again. Even though it never really shined only had a slight glimmer of hope, anyways, here we go folks!

Issue 1: Defiance is to Noob Friendly.

Now here is what I mean. When a person who picks up this game for the first time can compete with someone who is 5,000 ego, there is a slight problem. Now let's look at this logically. Lets say you have been working a job for 5 years, each year you hope to an increase to your salary but low and behold each year it is the same thing. You've put 5 years into the company so naturally you would expect to be paid more than the 18 year old who has been working the same job for 2 weeks.

The same goes with defiance, I can put 5000 hours in and still get destroyed by some beginner with a shotgun.

Here is how I think it should be fixed: Every 100 ego levels the player chooses 1 bonus to their character. The bonus' could be Gun Damage, Melee Damage, Reload Times, Movement Speed, etc. I'm sure I could think of 1,000 bonuses but ill stop there. Each bonus is 1% and you cannot choose the same bonus more than 15 times.

Issue 2: Weapon Scaling.

I know there are due hard fans that love the way the weapon system works, that's fine, that is your opinion and your free to express it here but here is the problem I see with it. It's extremely discouraging. According to chance, I could technically start a brand new character, buy a lock box, get a legendary, and be set for the rest of the game. Now this is highly unlikely of course but it is still a chance. You may think what is wrong with this? Well think about it, for the rest of the game, you may never ever ever ever get another legendary that could compete. Sure there are synergies that may matter, but those are what I call illusionary factors. They are a way to get you as a player to spend money, bits, scrip, and salvage.

His to fix this: Allow players to upgrade the stats of a weapon once you have leveled it.

What I mean by this is let's say you level up a weapon, you can then spend this level point to upgrade the stats of a weapon by x%. This percentage should be random. If you have a high level in that weapon lets say your level in smgs is 20, well, now your chance of getting the highest bonus percentage is increased by 20%. This would also mean that a weapons xp bar resets and you can restart the process with the increased stat. This could be capped at 5 times.

Final Issue: Health.

This is something not very many people recognize as an issue. Health should increase with ego, it only makes since when you analyze it. See health is an issue because the way it is now, a player at 5,000 ego has the Sam health as a ego level 1 player. Now there is the bonus 225 to health perk but seriously? You do realize that, that is only a 1 shot difference with most weapons. With lmgs that's half a bullet. Health NEEDS to scale this way weapon scaling and ego scaling can coexist. War is time, time is precious, and and war of clones leads to the same results everytime.

How to fix this issue: Simple, 10% increase to health every 500 ego levels. I shouldn't have to e plain why this is beneficial but I will. This adds a curve, in every game I can think of health scales with leveling. What's fun about every single person in the game having the same amount of health? This isn't call of duty, battlefield, or halo. Not even close really. Health in pvp can be the same, I could live with that, we have shields that vary in numbers. But in pve/single player I feel as if it should definitely be something to be added. This way difficulty balances out, this way experienced players can counter the cluster ****s of enemies with dead aim accuracy.

Anyways tell me what you think, would love to have your input.

So, lets break down the issues one by one.

Ego bonuses. Do you, or do you not gain perk slots at allotted ego levels? Are these perks I add in what gives me an advantage over newer players? The fact I can overcharge my sawed off courier ever 6 shots, and have overcharge active for way more shots because of my combination of perks isn't giving me an advantage for being high level? How many perks do you have? Because I have 8, and that's a hell of a lot of extra bonuses for me. Not to mention my weapons are all a minimum of lvl 10, which gives alot of bonuses to all my guns. Now you want to give me EXTRA bonuses? Make me even more powerful than you? Stupid.

One down, two to go. Weapon scaling. So, you win against impossible odds and somehow win a legendary assault rifle on the lockbox vendor, so that assault rifle is automatically better than every other assault rifle in every kind of situation? So you will never need another assault rifle that is single shot? Or burst? Or higher capacity and fire rate with lower damage for suppressive fire? And upgrade the guns stats when you level it? Funnily enough all weapons unlock an extra bonus when it hits max Xp. Stupid point.

Lastly, health. Most ridiculous argument for giving us increased health ever, given that health is not the main thing we take damage to, shields are, and every shield is different. So hey we add this curve to the game, now fighting in Marin, madera, mount tam and Sausalito aren't challenging anymore, because I have so much health it takes them hours to kill me. And with all the extra weapon damage and skill boosts you just gave me, I think I'd struggle to die in San Fran too.

Silly ideas like these get the game rebalanced and ruined

Turantula
05-24-2013, 04:43 PM
Ecactly this, it is clearly an advantage to have say 7 open perk slots as I have on my chatachter to someone who only has 1 or 2 open.

Adal8807
05-25-2013, 09:35 AM
Game actually is based around skill, not gear.

You want to change that why? There's just one answer to that, and we all know that one.

You guys who are saying that this game is based on skill are just lying to yourselves. Cloaking and using shotguns in pvp isn't skill. Anybody can do it and be good at it and most people only do that.

I know we as people tend to stand for the things we want but just because you want this game to be based on skill doesn't mean it actually is based in skill.

Also what makes you think skill wouldn't be involved if the gear scaled? Why would that take away from the skill aspect? As it is right now shotguns rule. If my idea is implemented there would be an imbalance in shotguns and you would have to actually use your shotgun a ton a get it good.

Same with any weapon, you have to use it and adapt it to your play style. If anything this would make the game harder and require even more skill to master guns. Things like recoil could be a factor for choosing to up the damage of the gun. There would be side effects to increasing a weapon, think of it as the VOT Blast Rifle. The gun itself isn't very good but in the right hands that gun can dominate most weapons, besides shottys and snipers.


Oh and Kutsume, your entire argument is invalid because of the last thing you said " ****ty ideas like this get the game rebalanced" haha obviously this is a thread full of shotgun and cloak users.

Yeah who wants to have a game that's balanced? Clearly the developers want a balanced game because of the excessive and constant nerfing of shotguns. Looks like you lose either way ;)

IntenseSpirit
05-25-2013, 09:44 AM
Once you get higher-up you can have guns that spawn with 5% or 10% extra damage, or both if you are lucky. Add that to a 7% extra damage barrel and you have your level-scaled gear. Shields and grenades slightly scale as levels increase.

Cerveau
05-25-2013, 09:46 AM
Hardcore gaming died long time ago now its only casual and assisted gaming....

Truth. Truth. Truth.

Avril Parker
05-25-2013, 09:46 AM
-skip-

Mate, don't want to interrupt your rambling, but...
- using AssaultRifles and BoltActionSnipers only
- having Decoy as EGO-Power ever since

But sure, make your assumptions that everyone here is Cloak/Shotgun just because they happen to disagree with you as this very well suits your perspective making up reasons to stand your point.

And tbh, if those Cloak/Shotgun users are so overcoming your game experience, then you have a fair problem playing this game.

Edit: And yes, Shotguns are being rebalanced and will get further balance along with many other weapons, but that's just a matter of general weapon balancing.

RPGauntlet
11-09-2013, 08:33 PM
Ok, so I'm a noob, just started yesterday. and yes I chose shotgun, sniper, cloak. so far only played co-op. because it's fun. generally use my cloak to rescue players and secure sniper nests. only have 134 ego. but I see no problem with the game. IT IS SKILL BASED. If you cant kill cloaked shotgunners then thats a lack of skill. If you instant kill lower lvl players because your ego is higher, that is not skill. If i kill you in this game today, for whatever dementia puts me in matchmaking so soon, then you clearly lack the skill to beat me. you wanna know the truth about experience? you cant get it from any program changes. You have to learn from your mistakes and correct your approach. seriously, exp and levels weren't in goldeneye. and in truth they arent here. just small perks, if thats not enough to separate you and me... then maybe this isn't your game. see you on the field. :cool:

Nilxain
11-09-2013, 10:23 PM
Zombie!!!!

Mankindvm
11-10-2013, 11:28 AM
The same goes with defiance, I can put 5000 hours in and still get destroyed by some beginner with a shotgun.


I am noob (400 +- EGO). But I consider it a big precedence, not a flaw.
And I definitely do not think it means,that the game is too noob friendly.And that's not to mention the fact that not all players interested in the pvp.
Amount and levels perks gives you sufficient benefits. And better gear too.

Comparison with the real work then consider it unfortunate.


Sorry for my English.

Chuffy
11-10-2013, 11:28 AM
Now here is what I mean. When a person who picks up this game for the first time can compete with someone who is 5,000 ego, there is a slight problem. Now let's look at this logically. Lets say you have been working a job for 5 years, each year you hope to an increase to your salary but low and behold each year it is the same thing. You've put 5 years into the company so naturally you would expect to be paid more than the 18 year old who has been working the same job for 2 weeks.

The same goes with defiance, I can put 5000 hours in and still get destroyed by some beginner with a shotgun.


Except how Defiance works is logical, to use a different work analogy, take sales where people are often paid on performance, if you have worked for 5 years and some new guy comes along and is selling more than you in his first six months, he will get paid more, because guess what, he deserves it, he is better at the job than you.

Same goes for Defiance, if you are getting "destroyed by some beginner with a shotgun" despite the fact you have more experience, then that is just tough, he is better than you.



This is something not very many people recognize as an issue. Health should increase with ego, it only makes since when you analyze it. See health is an issue because the way it is now, a player at 5,000 ego has the Sam health as a ego level 1 player. Now there is the bonus 225 to health perk but seriously? You do realize that, that is only a 1 shot difference with most weapons.

So what? You already have an advantage over a new player, you want such an advantage that you can simply roll your face across the keyboard to achieve an empty "win".

Your post can largely be translated to "I am bad at this game, please carry me by adding crappy unbalanced design"