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greenmonster714
05-25-2013, 03:33 AM
I saw it on Battlefield and it was a disaster. People on the forums started to complain of overpowered weapons in the mp and Dice started nerfing weapons. This ruined the game. Now I see Trion doing the same thing and from what I can see here on the forums not many people are happy to see their hard earned weapons and mods altered.

Let me give you some advice. Nerf anything you want to in the game but LEAVE THE WEAPONS ALONE. If you do not stop it will cause a lot of problems for your game. If the people in MP are complaining that the shottys are overpowered well then they need to strap one on and join in the slaughter. If the bug guns are making them twitch then they need to equip one and move out smartly. Stop whining and deal with what is in the game.

For the casual Defiance player like myself and many others. Taking our weapons and nerfing them is uncalled for. I am sure you don't see any non mp gamer here complaining that his shotty is slaughtering hellbugs. Many of us are happy to see the improvements to the vehicle problem at arkfalls but messing with our weapons is uncalled for. I love the game and appreciate all you do to keep things running smoothly but be careful and rethink what you give and what you take away. I would hate to see you nerf this game into a pile of garbage.

MstrJedi_Kyle
05-25-2013, 04:08 AM
Balancing weapons doesn't destroy a game. Shotguns being over powered doesn't mean everyone should use a shotgun. People should be able to play how they want to play. Balancing weapons helps with that quite a bit.

greenmonster714
05-25-2013, 04:37 AM
Balancing weapons doesn't destroy a game. Shotguns being over powered doesn't mean everyone should use a shotgun. People should be able to play how they want to play. Balancing weapons helps with that quite a bit.

You said it all....People should be able to play how they want to play! I being one of those People would like weapons left alone. They were fine just the way they were. Weapon balance...lol. Is there truly such a thing? No, and there never will be. Weapon balance equals the total of how many people complain about a particular weapon or two and the developer bowing down to the masses. Which in turn changes things that need not be altered at all.

Not trying to be a smart*** here. I'm just saying there is no real balance. It all comes down to complaints posted by players who can't cope with a given situation. If you have two identical weapons and two players. One of them is going to pull the trigger faster than the other. The winner will gloat and the looser will shout (more than likely very loudly on the forums)...that the shotgun is to overpowered. Get enough of those shouting the same thing and Poof....It's nerf time!

MstrJedi_Kyle
05-25-2013, 05:15 AM
You said it all....People should be able to play how they want to play! I being one of those People would like weapons left alone. They were fine just the way they were. Weapon balance...lol. Is there truly such a thing? No, and there never will be. Weapon balance equals the total of how many people complain about a particular weapon or two and the developer bowing down to the masses. Which in turn changes things that need not be altered at all.

Not trying to be a smart*** here. I'm just saying there is no real balance. It all comes down to complaints posted by players who can't cope with a given situation. If you have two identical weapons and two players. One of them is going to pull the trigger faster than the other. The winner will gloat and the looser will shout (more than likely very loudly on the forums)...that the shotgun is to overpowered. Get enough of those shouting the same thing and Poof....It's nerf time!

Yeah, but if a bunch of people are shouting what does that tell you? Honestly though, this conversation never gets anywhere. Some people like balancing weapons is utterly pointless and some people think it serves a valuable purpose. So I say we agree to disagree.

GeordieReaper
05-25-2013, 05:53 AM
I saw it on Battlefield and it was a disaster. People on the forums started to complain of overpowered weapons in the mp and Dice started nerfing weapons. This ruined the game. Now I see Trion doing the same thing and from what I can see here on the forums not many people are happy to see their hard earned weapons and mods altered.

Let me give you some advice. Nerf anything you want to in the game but LEAVE THE WEAPONS ALONE. If you do not stop it will cause a lot of problems for your game. If the people in MP are complaining that the shottys are overpowered well then they need to strap one on and join in the slaughter. If the bug guns are making them twitch then they need to equip one and move out smartly. Stop whining and deal with what is in the game.

For the casual Defiance player like myself and many others. Taking our weapons and nerfing them is uncalled for. I am sure you don't see any non mp gamer here complaining that his shotty is slaughtering hellbugs. Many of us are happy to see the improvements to the vehicle problem at arkfalls but messing with our weapons is uncalled for. I love the game and appreciate all you do to keep things running smoothly but be careful and rethink what you give and what you take away. I would hate to see you nerf this game into a pile of garbage.

I totally agree mate, as a former BF3 player the nerfs brought in by Dice helped wreck the game. Skilled players will always get kills and dominate games and the masses will always scream their weapons and tactics are over powered. I wish people would see they should run with better players and learn from them instead of screaming nerf at every weapon, attachment, tactic or sending them abusive messages accusing them of cheating. I accept I'm crap at PVP so why start whining about shotguns when its my skill lacking? I try to learn from the better players around me so should everyone else.

LtRobbiesan
05-25-2013, 08:23 AM
It's a rampant issue in many games. I played Mass Effect 3 MP a bunch, and the whiners out in full force constantly complained about how this weapon or that character were OP. Unfortunately BioWare listed to the whiners too much and made some silly revisions to weapons and chars, to the point they were used very little. All the same, there is something to be said for skill, and making the most of your weapons and characters through playing smart. Such a fine line...

Defenze
05-25-2013, 08:45 AM
Yeah, but if a bunch of people are shouting what does that tell you? Honestly though, this conversation never gets anywhere. Some people like balancing weapons is utterly pointless and some people think it serves a valuable purpose. So I say we agree to disagree.

Very wise assessment of this thread. Agree to disagree and move on. I prefer Trion not nerf weapons, but can't they do this for MP only? Or does it have to be game wide? Not knowledgeable enough about the game to know if that can be done. I will use the weapons they don't nerf as my solution.

DejaVooDoo
05-25-2013, 09:13 AM
Totally different. DICE devs actually actually play battlefield. Like, ALOT. Like, they actually enjoy playing the game that they made. So when they do balancing, it isn't just some reactionary, ill-considered nerf. They actually have seen and experienced the balance over hundreds of matches and make tweaks according to that experience. They also have this nifty system where they actually have people test out the tweaks to see if they accomplish the devs' balance goals. You may have disagreements with where DICE chose to strike the balance--I know I do in some cases--but they certainly didn't ruin the game. And they certainly never applied buffs/nerfs in anywhere near the ham-fisted manner in which Trion does.

Blade of Souls
05-25-2013, 09:30 AM
I don't suppose they could just drop the whole idea of PvP and just focus on more PvE content? It'd be nice, and I would love them for it.

And I think their servers and devs would love it too.

myboyblue
05-25-2013, 09:39 AM
No they didn't break the game it didn't make sense for some of the weapons to perform the way they did.
1.USAS+ FRAG rounds---shoots like at assault rifle range while retaining that shotgun pellet dmg with frag suppression.
2.FAMAS-no recoil--people called it the lazer gun till it got nerfed.
3.M26 Dart+underbarrel with G3A3 giving the darts g3a3 ammo characteristics.

thats the **** dice nerfed and no they were not "FINE" or let players play the "way" they want. they were anomalies in the game that players discovered and took advantage of. If you call anyone taking advantage of the above weapons before they were nerfed "skilled players" then you're an idiot. my top weapon for a long time was the M40A3 with 3,000 kills. yeah you won't find any of the "noob" crutch weapons on my top 10 simply because I refused to be one.

BF3 is better where it is now.

I played BF3 from its beta all the way till I hit col.100
It has come a long way and it has gotten better if they left the above mentioned weapons unfixed then it would be a broken game.

mikepaul
05-25-2013, 09:42 AM
My 25-shot orange Cluster Shot didn't need to be turned into a 12-shot to protect PvP from corruption. Grenades make close-quarters fighting a personal danger. It was for other jobs.

I have already been downed trying to reload it to deal with 'road warriors', which sucks in a big way. At EGO 182, it was never really used much since it was maxed out at purchase (needed the Achievement more than the skill honing) and now, well, ANY other Cluster Shot I have is as useful. The perks are there, yes, but as part of holding that shotgun to gain the perks, I once was able to shoot a lot longer without worrying about reloading. As a crippled (yes, crippled) weapon now, the carrying will be less. Not thrilled...

ItISLupus
05-25-2013, 10:10 AM
You said it all....People should be able to play how they want to play! I being one of those People would like weapons left alone. They were fine just the way they were. Weapon balance...lol. Is there truly such a thing? No, and there never will be. Weapon balance equals the total of how many people complain about a particular weapon or two and the developer bowing down to the masses. Which in turn changes things that need not be altered at all.

Not trying to be a smart*** here. I'm just saying there is no real balance. It all comes down to complaints posted by players who can't cope with a given situation. If you have two identical weapons and two players. One of them is going to pull the trigger faster than the other. The winner will gloat and the looser will shout (more than likely very loudly on the forums)...that the shotgun is to overpowered. Get enough of those shouting the same thing and Poof....It's nerf time!

I think the real point, is that people don't want to run around shotgunning willy nilly. Its the reason gears was so popular, the Gnasher was the only VIABLE weapon besides explosives(and the sniper). Combine that with the viceral feedback of turning your target into chunks.

Believe it or not, developers do not take feedback from the community to nerf weapons. If they are getting complaints about weapons they look at their statistics, who is using what. How many shots are they using to kill someone. If 80% of the playerbase(pvp only) are using the same loadout. There is something wrong.

Here's the point where you say "Oh well the maps are small with tiny corridors!" Fair point. But what about shadow wars? Or the few games we were able to get in on Freight Yard before it got taken down. Map size has nothing to do with it. People were going to use cloak/shotgun because they could sneak up behind someone and one shot them, and 3 other players, in the back from cloak.

I think they missed an even simpler nerf. Halving the Shadowed strike bonus. Or changing it to only add crit damage. Why give a flat buff from cloak? Why not reward precision from cloak? Why give a damage buff of that size to an ego power that turns you invisible? are other powers going to get a perk that turns you invisible?

Mostly Slow Joe
05-25-2013, 10:16 AM
It seems ppl who can not play always complain about blance. Not saying I am great or anything but I do not need a OPed shotgun to enjoy the game.

With that said I do feel bad for the pvers that traded got full modded shotguns just to have them nerfed but the try hards in pvp not so much...Lets be real if you had to run the OPed shotgun build you were not that good anyway so I doubt you will be missed.

mrgrimezHD
05-25-2013, 10:18 AM
I saw it on Battlefield and it was a disaster. People on the forums started to complain of overpowered weapons in the mp and Dice started nerfing weapons. This ruined the game. Now I see Trion doing the same thing and from what I can see here on the forums not many people are happy to see their hard earned weapons and mods altered.

Let me give you some advice. Nerf anything you want to in the game but LEAVE THE WEAPONS ALONE. If you do not stop it will cause a lot of problems for your game. If the people in MP are complaining that the shottys are overpowered well then they need to strap one on and join in the slaughter. If the bug guns are making them twitch then they need to equip one and move out smartly. Stop whining and deal with what is in the game.

For the casual Defiance player like myself and many others. Taking our weapons and nerfing them is uncalled for. I am sure you don't see any non mp gamer here complaining that his shotty is slaughtering hellbugs. Many of us are happy to see the improvements to the vehicle problem at arkfalls but messing with our weapons is uncalled for. I love the game and appreciate all you do to keep things running smoothly but be careful and rethink what you give and what you take away. I would hate to see you nerf this game into a pile of garbage.

*Cracks fingers*

I'd like to call myself a Battlefield VET, seeing as I've played all of the titles in the series and I'm not inflating my E-Peen here but I was actually pretty good at them.

BF3 was my main 'go to' game when it was released simply because I was an avid DICE Fan and I actually enjoyed playing it. When it was released the forums turned into it's very own bloody war zone, people think the Defiance and ME3 forums were bad? they have nothing on the BF3 forums two to three weeks down the line.

People joined forces and began their own campaigns hellbent on getting weapons / equipment nerfed to hell and back, granted some of the nerfs were needed but the rest were nerfed out of sheer spite coming from the players who happened to get merked more often then not.

It wasn't just the 'noobs', it was also the people who liked to stick 'Pro' in front of everything including their on screen names that were dishing out pure tears on the forums, simply because of a certain weapon had taken them out each and every time they died. What was ironic and some what contradictive of those said individuals was those 'weapons' were in fact their top weapon used over everything else. Funny how that works, ain't it?

I could honestly go on about that huge ****storm of a game which was once an amazing FPS but I'd be here all day, the short version of this story ends with DICE listening to the wrong people, patching everything that those groups despised to the point were those weapons / equipment became useless. DICE basically took a huge dump over the fan base which gave their opinions on things which did indeed need tweaking but found everything else to be fine.

Whether people agree or not, the community changed BF3 in such a way that it's became full of clown shoes trying their best to pull off a no scope Jet Pilot kill OR seeing who can C4 an AC130 while you're busy capping flags. Sad but true, don't get me wrong though as there can be some DECENT games to be had but overall BF3 became a serious Turd which couldn't be polished.

This happens to EVERY game which involves weapons / equipment etc, people will cry about one thing, it gets fixed (within reason) and then they find another reason to shed tears about. It's a never ending war and most of the time it's the people who complain who get what they want. Sad but true.

If people feel like the 'Fanboy' tag fits over my head like a spangly new halo for supporting Trion, then so be it, I couldn't care less if I'm honest. You see, I'm part of the generation of gamers who understands that not everyone will be happy and that some will go to extreme lengths in order to be noticed, all the while I'm sitting back taking these problems on the chin and letting Trion sort them out.

I can see people clicking 'Reply with quote' on my post and bolding out ''letting Trion sort them out.'' then making some pointless remark and possibly calling me a r3tard but again, I couldn't care less. Trion, even though they haven't got the patching process down yet, are STILL working on other patches to fix the previous patch.

The last part of the previous paragraph does look sketchy when seeing it in black and white but Trion haven't given up and said ''**** it, were going home.'', They're working on something 24/7 regardless if it actually works or not. At least they're trying for Christ sake.

'It's not good enough, I paid money for this game and so I expect more'' - I hear people thinking

Ok fair enough, you paid for the game and you expect more then what you've already got. I get that. My point is, which other CONSOLE developer do you know who's literally working around the clock, pushing out these patches and then having to make / distribute Hot fixes within the same time frame to fix their mistakes. all the while collecting feedback from the people on the forums and making certain in game tweaks here and there.

Trion gets things wrong, they go back to square one and start over again. Sure it hasn't gone smoothly since launch but **** happens. It seems Trion can't do nothing right according to most of the people in here, complaining about things which they asked to be tweaked, only they're aren't happy with the end result. What's the first thing those individuals do? yeah, that's right, they head straight to the forums and kick up a fuss... once again.

I think Trion are trying to do everything at once which seems to be their achilles heel, seeing as they have 3 different platforms to cater for and the PS3 is the hardest out of them all to make changes to, hence why PS3 users are left behind most times. It didn't help that half the staff was cut but that's Trions own business, not mine.

If Trion continue to take feedback from the people who are deliberately setting out to change Defiance's mechanics then the game will indeed be resorted to a graveyard. I've sat on the fence long enough to see there's a clear divide, listening to both sides of the story so to speak and I've noticed the groups of people who give clear, concise information on the problems they're having will indeed get the 'tweak' they asked for (which actually works of course) but the majority of all these nerfs are coming from the people who spout of their mouths while in Live Chat Support and then posting their childish antics on the forums in the form of a bloody screen shot.

Funnily enough THOSE people are the ones saying -

''That's it, I'm done with this game. I'm a programmer by trade and I could do a better job ''.
''This game is complete garbage but I'm going to get this last achievement and then trade it in''.
''I traded this game in weeks ago but I still browse these forums and giving my opinions''.

In the words of Lt. Lockhart - ''In other words, it's a huge **** sandwich, and we're all gonna have to take a bite.''

I'm sorry for the long wall of rant / opinions but your post inspired me to let the **** gates open and spill it all over this thread.

mbergeron
05-25-2013, 10:20 AM
It's a rampant issue in many games. I played Mass Effect 3 MP a bunch, and the whiners out in full force constantly complained about how this weapon or that character were OP. Unfortunately BioWare listed to the whiners too much and made some silly revisions to weapons and chars, to the point they were used very little. All the same, there is something to be said for skill, and making the most of your weapons and characters through playing smart. Such a fine line...

The nerfing that bioware did was nothing in their game. As far as defiance and other games go I am sure they have data showing them what is getting used the most and what people are getting kills with and killed by. Any of the nerfing that they have done isn't that big of a deal to pve except for the heavy scattergun since its damage nerf was not needed.

Gratty
05-25-2013, 10:26 AM
The shotty nerf was a bit ridiculous IMO. Shotguns are supposed to be the dominant CQB weapon, and they were. Now, I don't even give them the time of day. If people want to be considered good at PvP in any game, crying about everything doesn't help. Playing the game and understanding how others play, as well as discovering ways to counter how they play is the way to go. No need to cry for a nerf nerf here and a nerf nerf there. Cause then you have here a nerf, there a nerf, everywhere a nerf nerf. Then the game becomes unplayable (not like this game doesn't already have a medley of other bigger issues)

fang1192
05-25-2013, 10:36 AM
No need to cry for a nerf nerf here and a nerf nerf there. Cause then you have here a nerf, there a nerf, everywhere a nerf nerf. Then the game becomes unplayable (not like this game doesn't already have a medley of other bigger issues)

I think this is a good metric for determining balance. If different people want different things nerfed then they were probably outplayed.

Mostly Slow Joe
05-25-2013, 10:48 AM
You have a good point but shotguns were OPed..I am healer I have 3 differnt heal builds I like to run even and I was losing more ppl to shotguns then rockets....ROCKETS. I understand shotguns should be good at CQC but they shouldnt be out dmging rockets in ANY game.

Nadir
05-25-2013, 11:23 AM
may help for pvp, but personally I have no interest in pvp, and my shot guns have suddenly become useless, as in point blank shots no longer kill raiders useless thats not balancing weapons thats rediculous

Nadir
05-25-2013, 11:37 AM
I don't suppose they could just drop the whole idea of PvP and just focus on more PvE content? It'd be nice, and I would love them for it.

And I think their servers and devs would love it too.


Completely agree

The Architect
05-25-2013, 11:44 AM
I dont feel like there is any real issue with the weapons alone. The problem is the freedom to use any gun, paired with any main ability(and the perks that go with). If you notice, the shotguns are only really effective at quite close range, then when you give that same person the ability to use cloak with it, its essentially pvp breaking. There is no real way of countering that, and THAT is what I think breaks the balance. I don't think, as long as the abilities work the way they do now, that there will ever be a true balance. Ever.

Giotto
05-25-2013, 12:09 PM
How about just get rid of PVP. There are hundreds of games that do PVP better than this. Even some ps2 games are superior.

DeadCynic
05-25-2013, 12:21 PM
Yeah I busted my character's pixelated ***** to get the reputation for a purple Votan auto—fragger, leveled it and loved it. Got on after the patch to see how much slower they made the burst... I wanted a real auto-fragger to use at the Trion office. If no one is going to nerf bulwarks, black lungs or mutant shotgunners, why do OUR weapons have to suffer? No Bueno!

Dave Blackwell
05-25-2013, 12:38 PM
I saw it on Battlefield and it was a disaster. People on the forums started to complain of overpowered weapons in the mp and Dice started nerfing weapons. This ruined the game. Now I see Trion doing the same thing and from what I can see here on the forums not many people are happy to see their hard earned weapons and mods altered.

Let me give you some advice. Nerf anything you want to in the game but LEAVE THE WEAPONS ALONE. If you do not stop it will cause a lot of problems for your game. If the people in MP are complaining that the shottys are overpowered well then they need to strap one on and join in the slaughter. If the bug guns are making them twitch then they need to equip one and move out smartly. Stop whining and deal with what is in the game.

For the casual Defiance player like myself and many others. Taking our weapons and nerfing them is uncalled for. I am sure you don't see any non mp gamer here complaining that his shotty is slaughtering hellbugs. Many of us are happy to see the improvements to the vehicle problem at arkfalls but messing with our weapons is uncalled for. I love the game and appreciate all you do to keep things running smoothly but be careful and rethink what you give and what you take away. I would hate to see you nerf this game into a pile of garbage.

I completely agree with what you've said, quite literally word for word. I've noticed the BF3-esque forum grasping a foothold in this game.

I said about it weeks ago maybe even a month until now. But alas, they've succeeded and the very slow degradation of what was a fun game has now begun to devolve into a 'if it killed me it's OP' type forum where every weapon that exists in this game will eventually become useless. People never think to maybe check if their own playing style may be working against them, instead it's always another persons fault. A few people have mentioned that the PvP maps are CQC centric therefore meaning shotguns are obviously going to run rampant and dominant said maps. Why some players are so surprised that shotguns ran the show for quite sometime is hilarious to me when the reasoning behind it was blantantly obvious to anyone with a shred of common sense.

I must say though, if Trion continues to give into these cry babies throwing temper tantrums because they take games too seriously and nerf everything, which WILL happen eventually if they do I can assure you that, then they are essentially killing off their own product as the majority of the game is PvE focused - not PvP. Make changes for PvP ONLY weapons and do not touch the PvE aspect of the game and you'll keep everyone happy. For those that complain that weapons in PvE are OP all I have to say is, get out of that mindset man.. a game is meant to played for fun it isn't a job; stop taking them so seriously.

I'd also like to mention. Those that will persist on crying 'NERF!' every time a weapon kills them more often than another one. Your weapons that you grow used to will eventually be next on the 'nerf' list, mark my words. Eventually every weapon will be 'nerfed' into the ground to the point where we might as well just be beating each other around the head with sticks as that would do more damage at that point.

PvP only weapons changes, or no changes at all.
Once the PvE aspect is destroyed due to these half baked ideas - RIP Defiance.

BorderlandsWasSchtako
05-25-2013, 12:44 PM
I completely agree with what you've said, quite literally word for word. I've noticed the BF3-esque forum grasping a foothold in this game.

I said about it weeks ago maybe even a month until now. But alas, they've succeeded and the very slow degradation of what was a fun game has now begun to devolve into a 'if it killed me it's OP' type forum where every weapon that exists in this game will eventually become useless. People never think to maybe check if their own playing style may be working against them, instead it's always another persons fault. A few people have mentioned that the PvP maps are CQC centric therefore meaning shotguns are obviously going to run rampant and dominant said maps. Why some players are so surprised that shotguns ran the show for quite sometime is hilarious to me when the reasoning behind it was blantantly obvious to anyone with a shred of common sense.

I must say though, if Trion continues to give into these cry babies throwing temper tantrums because they take games too seriously and nerf everything, which WILL happen eventually if they do I can assure you that, then they are essentially killing off their own product as the majority of the game is PvE focused - not PvP. Make changes the weapons for PvP ONLY and do not touch the PvE aspect of the game and you'll keep everyone happy. For those that complain that weapons in PvE are OP all I have to say is, get out of that mindset man.. a game is meant to played for fun it isn't a job; stop taking them so seriously.

I'd also like to mention. Those that will persist on crying 'NERF!' every time a weapon kills them more often than another one. Your weapons that you grow used to will eventually be next on the 'nerf' list, mark my words. Eventually every weapon will be 'nerfed' into the ground to the point where we might as well just be beating each other around the head with sticks as that would do more damage at that point.

PvP only weapons changes, or no changes at all.
Once the PvE aspect is destroyed due to these half baked ideas - RIP Defiance.

These browniehounds that want balance and nerfs are the same Kansas City princesses that think it it just marvelous that hitting the phalanges of a monarch blows you up in one hit. They are a plague on the gaming community. If you hate people using shotguns...snipe. Quit being a punkass. Just like the babies who hated the 12 gauge frag rounds on battlefield. I am ******* sorry but it is a self contained grenade. Get the f over it. It is suposed to be op. but no. They turned it into the 12 gauge bean bag round.

I agree with PvP only weapons. Or add a resilience rating to them. Their fixes are terribad.

Dave Blackwell
05-25-2013, 12:48 PM
These browniehounds that want balance and nerfs are the same Kansas City princesses that think it it just marvelous that hitting the phalanges of a monarch blows you up in one hit. They are a plague on the gaming community. If you hate people using shotguns...snipe. Quit being a punkass. Just like the babies who hated the 12 gauge frag rounds on battlefield. I am ******* sorry but it is a self contained grenade. Get the f over it. It is suposed to be op. but no. They turned it into the 12 gauge bean bag round.

The main reason I left BF3 for good was due to them ruining it all in the name of the ever elusive term 'Balance'.

This is exactly my views on battlefield after they completely destroyed it and turned it into a 'kids' game essentially, minus the end - obviously.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzwQmUAJjoI

If Trion follows their footsteps I'll most likely have the same views on Defiance too.

BorderlandsWasSchtako
05-25-2013, 12:51 PM
Amen. Balance is for big soppy holes. Some things are unbalanced when used as intended. Sniper rifles are unbalanced for distance...shottys are unbalanced for close range. Get over it or play better. In this case that advice actually matters whereas I am being told to play better whenn there is a giant object in my path that one shots my vehicle. People are such trash.

Dave Blackwell
05-25-2013, 01:03 PM
Amen. Balance is for big soppy holes. Some things are unbalanced when used as intended. Sniper rifles are unbalanced for distance...shottys are unbalanced for close range. Get over it or play better..

This is exactly what those that cry nerf for everything need to understand. There are weapons for specific situations that are meant to be used rather than what is prefered, which will always come out top when used correctly at the right times. You never saw any games from the 90s etc. being brought in to be replaced with easier versions for those that couldn't get past certain aspects, what we had to do was learn how to get past it with what the game developers gave us.

Nowadays it seems all that has to be done is cry on the forums enough until the game is brought down to unbelievable standards. Game developers should create a game as intended and leave it the way it is. If a weapon is being favoured over others then there's most likely a legitimate reason behind that, the reason behind shotguns being favoured was due to the PvP maps essentially being designed in such a way that accommodated the shotgun therefore leading to them being more commonly used as opposed to any other weapon for anyone who had half a brain. I would put money on it if a map was designed so long range combat was more encouraged that the shotguns wouldn't be used as much as they were on the ones that already exist.

Adapt and overcome, or go play viva pinata - nuff said.

fang1192
05-25-2013, 01:22 PM
I might have taken you guys seriously but reading your posts have convinced me of several things:
* You do not know what the current PvP meta is.
* You intentionally misrepresent the effectiveness of weapons.
* You barely, if ever, play PvP.
* Even though you tell PvP'ers to adapt, you seem to have problems adapting to the balance changes.
* You are theory crafting.

BTW the vehicle nerf was in response to the antics at arkfalls. In other words, PvE'ers shot themselves in the foot.

Dave Blackwell
05-25-2013, 01:38 PM
I might have taken you guys seriously but reading your posts have convinced me of several things:
* You barely, if ever, play PvP.
* Even though you tell PvP'ers to adapt, you seem to have problems adapting to the balance changes.

BTW the vehicle nerf was in response to the antics at arkfalls. In other words, PvE'ers shot themselves in the foot.

We'll adapt to the changes, or at least those of us who will give this game a long enough chance until it becomes another BF3-esque type game in regards to 'balance'. However, I can't speak for everyone but I won't hang around for long if the changes effect the PvE side of the game as these PvP issues are nout but trivial if anything compared to PvE issues due to the main focus of the game actually being PvE over PvP.

Once again I can't speak for everyone, so my views will not be identical to someone elses but I do play PvP from time to time and I have had no problem whatsoever with it. No I'm not 'trolling' I genuinely have had no problems at all with it as it was entirely what I expected it to be. That being said the main focus of the game is PvE therefore I and most likely quite a few others focus more on that aspect of the game other than PvP.

I don't particularly want to spend a lot of time on this topic, so before I leave. I will say this, eventually every weapon will be nerfed. Why? Well, think about it. A weapon being nerfed is essentially lowering its effectiveness, right? What about the weapons that haven't been touched yet? Soon they'll be OP when every other weapon has been reduced in its usefulness and then we'll have more threads crying for those weapons to be nerfed. Once one weapon is nerfed, those who have common sense will move to the next most effective weapon and that will be deemed 'OP' too. I'm sure you'll understand where this will lead.

By all means I welcome Trion to nerf all the weapons PvP side, if that'll keep those with short attention spans happy. But if they effect the PvE side of the game it'll kill Defiance off eventually over time.

If they nerf both sides of the board, the outcome?

Beating everything around the head with sticks.

It will always boil down to that if Trion gives into this sort of behaviour.

Krymzon
05-25-2013, 05:26 PM
they have made all shotgun mag mods that increase the cap completely useless unless they are using a blue rarity one..which still sucks..

CozyMilk
05-25-2013, 05:37 PM
I saw it on Battlefield and it was a disaster. People on the forums started to complain of overpowered weapons in the mp and Dice started nerfing weapons. This ruined the game. Now I see Trion doing the same thing and from what I can see here on the forums not many people are happy to see their hard earned weapons and mods altered.

Let me give you some advice. Nerf anything you want to in the game but LEAVE THE WEAPONS ALONE. If you do not stop it will cause a lot of problems for your game. If the people in MP are complaining that the shottys are overpowered well then they need to strap one on and join in the slaughter. If the bug guns are making them twitch then they need to equip one and move out smartly. Stop whining and deal with what is in the game.

For the casual Defiance player like myself and many others. Taking our weapons and nerfing them is uncalled for. I am sure you don't see any non mp gamer here complaining that his shotty is slaughtering hellbugs. Many of us are happy to see the improvements to the vehicle problem at arkfalls but messing with our weapons is uncalled for. I love the game and appreciate all you do to keep things running smoothly but be careful and rethink what you give and what you take away. I would hate to see you nerf this game into a pile of garbage.

Question, why didn't they just nerf the weapons when being used in pvp and leave pve alone?

born2beagator
05-25-2013, 05:38 PM
I don't suppose they could just drop the whole idea of PvP and just focus on more PvE content? It'd be nice, and I would love them for it.

And I think their servers and devs would love it too.
THIS!!!!!

What annoys me is one of these DLC is more than likely going to be PvP oriented. If the PvP and the PvE were totally separate it would be one thing. But the nerfs hurt everyone

greenmonster714
05-26-2013, 04:04 AM
I don't suppose they could just drop the whole idea of PvP and just focus on more PvE content? It'd be nice, and I would love them for it.

And I think their servers and devs would love it too.

I doubt they would ever just drop the pvp from the game. Many people do not care to play it but its an option that will probably always be there for the ones interested. Instead of doing away with it I'd like to see them have there own sets of weapons available for pvp. They already have their own outfits so why not let them have their own weapons sections set apart from the open world gameplay. The could nerf all they wanted to and not disturb the total masses.

Lets face it. We have two types of players here on Defiance and really with this being a MMO where the heck did pvp come from anyway. Who needs that in this type of game? As if there isn't a ton of stuff to do already. More attention should be payed to fixing the problems of the MMO instead of wasting time trying to micro manage what I'd call a secondary part of the game....PvP.

Kronik
05-26-2013, 04:22 AM
shotguns take two hits to kill and dont give you 20 chances to do it.. This is unbearable, you might have to choose your shots instead of becoming the tazmanian devil, jumping spinning shooting incontrollably...

Games obviously broken (sarcasm)

born2beagator
05-26-2013, 04:36 AM
I doubt they would ever just drop the pvp from the game. Many people do not care to play it but its an option that will probably always be there for the ones interested. Instead of doing away with it I'd like to see them have there own sets of weapons available for pvp. They already have their own outfits so why not let them have their own weapons sections set apart from the open world gameplay. The could nerf all they wanted to and not disturb the total masses.

Lets face it. We have two types of players here on Defiance and really with this being a MMO where the heck did pvp come from anyway. Who needs that in this type of game? As if there isn't a ton of stuff to do already. More attention should be payed to fixing the problems of the MMO instead of wasting time trying to micro manage what I'd call a secondary part of the game....PvP.
I think since call of doody took off, everyone wants to cash in on PvP. Imo in the long run PvP will hurt this game more than help it as developers start to spend more and more time on it and less time on the part that really matters: the co-op

Anderson
05-26-2013, 04:38 AM
Question, why didn't they just nerf the weapons when being used in pvp and leave pve alone?

PvP is there to answer the question that eventually pops into everyone's head after playing PvE for awhile and getting all their cool weapons and powers: "This **** works great on mobs, but how good would it work on people?"

If PvP weapons had different stats you wouldn't really be getting an accurate answer to that question.

Now whether all of this crap is worth the trouble of answering that question is another issue entirely...

Ninno20
05-26-2013, 05:21 AM
Wow people really bringing up battlefield and COD... haha Like those games actually need any skill what so ever, not to mention its the same bloody rubbish day in day out. Do 5 different maps... over and over.

There is so much brown noise and stink in those games im shocked people who are good at them still act like its a badge of honor haha. A 13 year old can pick up the pad and be awesome, thats not skill, thats called being babied with the most simplest game mechanics ever.

mrgrimezHD
05-26-2013, 05:48 AM
Wow people really bringing up battlefield and COD... haha Like those games actually need any skill what so ever, not to mention its the same bloody rubbish day in day out. Do 5 different maps... over and over.

There is so much brown noise and stink in those games im shocked people who are good at them still act like its a badge of honor haha. A 13 year old can pick up the pad and be awesome, thats not skill, thats called being babied with the most simplest game mechanics ever.

I take it you've never played Pro Mod or BF3 without a HUD then?

I totally agree on how repetitive they are hence the boredom factor soon sets in, BF3 and COD are mentioned in any conversation regardless of topic. It's like they're the 'staple, go to' FPShooters on the market when they really aren't


There is so much brown noise and stink in those games im shocked people who are good at them still act like its a badge of honor haha. A 13 year old can pick up the pad and be awesome, thats not skill, thats called being babied with the most simplest game mechanics ever.

Again I completely agree but given the games in question and the right circumstances I.E - Pro Mod / BF3 - No Hud, these games can actually be quite intense. While COD favors the 'Snap Shooting' or 'Reflex Shooting' which games like Quake and Unreal Tournament, not to mention CS adopted, the COD franchise entered into League Tournaments with some of it's titles.

COD 4 Pro Mod being one of them needed a lot more skill in order to do well, it wasn't about how the game mechanics worked, it was using those mechanics and refining them. So yeah, a 13 year old can pick up a controller / sit down with a mouse 'n' keyboard and be 'awesome' but that same 13 year old can also be skilled in what he does.

BF3 without a HUD is a completely different ball game, no map / indicators / cross hairs, everything is done in vanilla mode and to understand the game mechanics while being handicapped in such a way needs certain skill to be applied, again it has nothing to do with a persons age.

However both of these games were butchered with Nerfs / Patches and made them less desirable to play, so it was indeed the Community which changed the rules of the game for everyone else.

Xero18999
05-26-2013, 08:45 AM
Imperfection is the epitaph. Do not balance things for they are not balanced in real life. People need to develop their own strategy, at some point they will have to pull their heads out of their arse and get military minded. If you can not think strategy in a game no matter how new you are to it then that is how you will preform when it counts. So remember that in real life your life will be forfeit. In reality nothing is balanced accept your mind and that is the trick to wining.

FeverFaucet
05-26-2013, 09:59 AM
Finally someone gets it. People crying for nerfs ruin games when devs think they have to listen. Mass Effect 3 was a great example of this. Some weapons where billed as ultra-rare but less useful then a common weapon because of nerfing. Yet, still, the complaints came in. Some people just shouldn't play video games. You can see whats going on with the cars right now.

Frantic Poet
05-26-2013, 10:40 AM
Finally someone gets it. People crying for nerfs ruin games when devs think they have to listen. Mass Effect 3 was a great example of this. Some weapons where billed as ultra-rare but less useful then a common weapon because of nerfing. Yet, still, the complaints came in. Some people just shouldn't play video games. You can see whats going on with the cars right now.
That's just a flat out lie. There isn't a single common weapon I would take over an ultra-rare. I would even take a Spitfire (which is bad) over an Avenger (which is bad with a low cooldown.)

Some people just shouldn't play video games. They're too dependent on fixed out-of-balance tactics and unable to accept the necessity of balance (a general approximation of it.) Every successful multiplayer game has a rich history of balance changes. I'm happy to see Defiance getting the same kind of care and attention.

fang1192
05-26-2013, 10:50 AM
That's just a flat out lie. There isn't a single common weapon I would take over an ultra-rare. I would even take a Spitfire (which is bad) over an Avenger (which is bad with a low cooldown.)

Some people just shouldn't play video games. They're too dependent on fixed out-of-balance tactics and unable to accept the necessity of balance (a general approximation of it.) Every successful multiplayer game has a rich history of balance changes. I'm happy to see Defiance getting the same kind of care and attention.

I would also like to note that in ME3 most of the changes were buffs - the biggest one was the addition of Gears, followed by easier tech combos. Nerfs were concentrated to a few weapons and powers, the worst nerf example is the Krysae and that was a game breaker when it came out.

Active balance changes is a good thing for any community if the Devs talk with the players or at least keep them informed.

Xero18999
05-26-2013, 04:18 PM
:) smiles :)

greenmonster714
05-27-2013, 05:50 AM
I'd like to take a moment and thank you all for your input on the nerf situation. We all have different opinions on the matter and that's what really counts. Comparing the nerfing on Defiance to other games is just a simple way to show an example of how frustrating this process is for gamers. Some like it and others think it to be a total waste of time. Whichever soapbox you stand on your opinion counts. Hopefully Trion will not take this nerf thing to extremes like other games have in the past. But, it could happen and if it does we will all probably suck it up and play the game anyway. I think the old saying..If it ain't broke don't try to fix it...is a fare way to put things when it comes to nerfing. I personally hate to see it happen. Others embrace it as if its a needed and expected part of the game. Whoever you are or whatever side you stand on. Please continue to post your feeling on this thread. Perhaps Trion will wander in and take a look at it. Thanks

mrgrimezHD
05-27-2013, 06:00 AM
I'd like to take a moment and thank you all for your input on the nerf situation. We all have different opinions on the matter and that's what really counts. Comparing the nerfing on Defiance to other games is just a simple way to show an example of how frustrating this process is for gamers. Some like it and others think it to be a total waste of time. Whichever soapbox you stand on your opinion counts. Hopefully Trion will not take this nerf thing to extremes like other games have in the past. But, it could happen and if it does we will all probably suck it up and play the game anyway. I think the old saying..If it ain't broke don't try to fix it...is a fare way to put things when it comes to nerfing. I personally hate to see it happen. Others embrace it as if its a needed and expected part of the game. Whoever you are or whatever side you stand on. Please continue to post your feeling on this thread. Perhaps Trion will wander in and take a look at it. Thanks

It's actually a pretty good thread, some good points from both sides of the pond so to speak.

DJTrig
05-27-2013, 06:50 AM
The thing that hurt BF3 wasn't the balancing,it was EA selling servers and the idiots (not everybody) running those servers.The only significant change i remember was the shotgun/frag rounds issue which really did need fixing (moreso since it only appeared as a bug from a patch).

I do agree with those that want PVP changes to be seperated from PVE,if that is even possible for them to do.The only thing i think is over-powered is cloak,it should cancel when you attack and shouldn't hide you from the radar when you are attacking.There should also be a shimer based on movement speed.Cloak is the reason people think the shotgun is OP,hence the two being put together in almost every shotgun complaint thread.Also,cloak is being exploited at the moment and more and more people are being seen to use this exploit every day (this needs fixing asap).

I think people see the infectors as being OP because they have so many different effects (D.O.T,bugs,boils,homing ETC).And also the relative weakness of machine guns in comparison within PVP (i think they feel fine in PVE).Infectors and BMGs just need a skill element added to them.Not sure what they could do for BMGs,maybe turn off offensive and treat it as a support only weapon (might even lead to people using them to heal team-mates).Infectors should be easy,just disable the homing effect during PVP.

code 117
05-27-2013, 06:54 AM
Every reply I've seen on here points to one main factor, pvp and pve are seperate entities. They should use this as their focus when altering the game. They should have 2 sets of weapon stats, PvP stats and PvE stats. As it is now, very few people use shotguns in PvE since they 'nerfed' them which means they will retweek the shotguns again to make them better in PvE not realising they are just gonna have another problem on PvP.

I saw a post on here about PvP being the problem and they should abandon further development on it. This is the worst thing Trion should do, as they will lose more players than just the people who like the PvP side. Alot of PvE players will see this as Trion abandoning the game or limiting the game further. New players will notice this as well and will not want a game that has announced they are not developing the game further (even though they are just refocusing the games direction).

Also, we all come from other multiplayer games, which are all usually PvP based or have PvP elements, so we would like to have the common multiplayer elements or we would at least expect them.

There are two solutions to this, first being that they seperate the guns stats from PvP and PvE. Or second, don't force competitive matches into narrow only enviroments, make some wide open areas for longer ranged guns to be effective. Look at medal of honor warfighter, the gameplay wasn't the best but the maps were well done in that both long range and short ranged weapons had equal play.

NyuuShiakorudo
05-27-2013, 09:53 AM
I saw it on Battlefield and it was a disaster. People on the forums started to complain of overpowered weapons in the mp and Dice started nerfing weapons. This ruined the game. Now I see Trion doing the same thing and from what I can see here on the forums not many people are happy to see their hard earned weapons and mods altered.

Let me give you some advice. Nerf anything you want to in the game but LEAVE THE WEAPONS ALONE. If you do not stop it will cause a lot of problems for your game. If the people in MP are complaining that the shottys are overpowered well then they need to strap one on and join in the slaughter. If the bug guns are making them twitch then they need to equip one and move out smartly. Stop whining and deal with what is in the game.

For the casual Defiance player like myself and many others. Taking our weapons and nerfing them is uncalled for. I am sure you don't see any non mp gamer here complaining that his shotty is slaughtering hellbugs. Many of us are happy to see the improvements to the vehicle problem at arkfalls but messing with our weapons is uncalled for. I love the game and appreciate all you do to keep things running smoothly but be careful and rethink what you give and what you take away. I would hate to see you nerf this game into a pile of garbage.

While I do know EXACTLY what you're talking about (Holy shtako, Battlefield forums were and still are the cesspool of the internet), I don't think, and am constantly hoping it doesn't get that bad.

FeverFaucet
05-27-2013, 01:02 PM
That's just a flat out lie. There isn't a single common weapon I would take over an ultra-rare. I would even take a Spitfire (which is bad) over an Avenger (which is bad with a low cooldown.)

Some people just shouldn't play video games. They're too dependent on fixed out-of-balance tactics and unable to accept the necessity of balance (a general approximation of it.) Every successful multiplayer game has a rich history of balance changes. I'm happy to see Defiance getting the same kind of care and attention.

There where plenty of good common and uncommon weapons I regularly took over ultra-rare.

I'm happy Defiance is getting care and attention too. As soon as something gets balanced, though, it unbalances a bunch of other aspects of the game. Whatever though, any game I get I'm going to have to deal with it, but it would be nice if it didn't feel like it was brought about by cry-baby players who think their way of playing is the only way.

DeadCynic
05-27-2013, 01:34 PM
Amen. Balance is for big soppy holes. Some things are unbalanced when used as intended. Sniper rifles are unbalanced for distance...shottys are unbalanced for close range. Get over it or play better. In this case that advice actually matters whereas I am being told to play better whenn there is a giant object in my path that one shots my vehicle. People are such trash.

Bump, basically all of that, heh

Cephious
05-27-2013, 02:15 PM
No they didn't break the game it didn't make sense for some of the weapons to perform the way they did.
1.USAS+ FRAG rounds---shoots like at assault rifle range while retaining that shotgun pellet dmg with frag suppression.
2.FAMAS-no recoil--people called it the lazer gun till it got nerfed.
3.M26 Dart+underbarrel with G3A3 giving the darts g3a3 ammo characteristics.



I agree it didn't break the game, but EVERY patch brought new weapon tweaks/characteristics. Favorites became worthless, otherwise worthless guns became OP -back and forth back and forth. I agree with the OP that weapons/shields/grenades should not be nerfed. And no..I don't use cloak, shotgun, or infector in PvP

XFistsClenchedX
05-27-2013, 02:23 PM
The biggest problem with Battlefield 3 was that they switched it from server side hit detection (good) to client side hit detection (bad).

Kivlov
05-29-2013, 05:13 AM
Exactly. Battlefield 3 would edit the guns every patch and at one moment you were really good with one then they patch it and then you suck, then guns that were awful, end up being made good and every single time you have to figure out what works again.

The only shotguns I felt were a little overpowered were the VOT shotguns, Nano Fragger and the sawnoff, the rest are fine. And even then the only reason they are always used is because the only two multiplayer maps that were running were extreme CQB maps that shotguns did well on, freight yard most people have assault rifles and such.

I am just so bummed out because shotguns were my favorite and now they are totally wrecked. And they werent even balanced just totally nerfed, The berzerker shotguns (my favorites) used to have 20 rounds default and I had a mod to increase it to 26, even then it in no way made it more powerful or even decent in any way in multiplayer. I wish that it only alters the stats upon entering multiplayer because I loved that thing for clearing out skitterlings.

Even a magazine capacity mod for pump shotguns now has 0% effect because there is not enough rounds default to allow it to have just one more round. Pumps should be 7 rounds default like before, or allow the magazine capacity mods to add +5 rounds instead of a percentage. Because for weapons I liked that were even a little underpowered are now completely useless.

Kivlov
05-29-2013, 05:29 AM
Exactly. Battlefield 3 would edit the guns every patch and at one moment you were really good with one then they patch it and then you suck, then guns that were awful, end up being made good and every single time you have to figure out what works again.

The only shotguns I felt were a little overpowered were the VOT shotguns, Nano Fragger and the sawnoff, the rest are fine. And even then the only reason they are always used is because the only two multiplayer maps that were running were extreme CQB maps that shotguns did well on, freight yard most people have assault rifles and such.

I am just so bummed out because shotguns were my favorite and now they are totally wrecked. And they werent even balanced just totally nerfed, The berzerker shotguns (my favorites) used to have 20 rounds default and I had a mod to increase it to 26, even then it in no way made it more powerful or even decent in any way in multiplayer. I wish that it only alters the stats upon entering multiplayer because I loved that thing for clearing out skitterlings.

Even a magazine capacity mod for pump shotguns now has 0% effect because there is not enough rounds default to allow it to have just one more round. Pumps should be 7 rounds default like before, or allow the magazine capacity mods to add +5 rounds instead of a percentage. Because for weapons I liked that were even a little underpowered are now completely useless.

Imaru
05-29-2013, 05:34 AM
It becomes redundent to hear players of the game complain about how the shottys got nerfed. I ask this, and if I recieve a well thought out answer I shall say no more. Why are you complaining about the fact that a Shotgun got nerfed, instead of pointing out different glitches that affect the game play for all players. Not every one uses shotguns, However almost 95% of players go after arkfalls and wind up in a glitched arkfall.

Ballistic808
07-07-2013, 12:10 PM
Infector guns need to be nerfed everyone in mp run around with infectors now shotguns aren't a problem anymore or should I say never were. But please nerf those cheap no skill infectors, range is way too long and auto aim is ridiculous. On a side note people who complain about nerf guns on bf3 have no valid excuses besides lack of skill I haven't noticed really any changes in weapons I can still use the famas no problem heavy barrel and all if you can't handle the recoil that's on you I see even the newest moons have no problem using any gun as I've been shot by them all at least 1x.

Thoraxe
07-07-2013, 12:16 PM
I don't feel like reading 6 pages, I just wanted to say I miss the pre-nerf Famas on Bf3

dominad
07-07-2013, 12:20 PM
What they did made sense.
It is like COD they often nerf weapons the last was the kap and b232 pistols but they did not actually change the damage they changed the damage range which was logical. You now have to get to 24 feet to make a kill with the same amount you could at 40.
Removing the infector bubbles from my screen would be cool but honestly trion please fix the big issues. You are not in the same league as Dice or Treyarch you do not make games like them not even close. So just try and fix the major issues.

LoGic
07-07-2013, 03:28 PM
It's a rampant issue in many games. I played Mass Effect 3 MP a bunch, and the whiners out in full force constantly complained about how this weapon or that character were OP. Unfortunately BioWare listed to the whiners too much and made some silly revisions to weapons and chars, to the point they were used very little. All the same, there is something to be said for skill, and making the most of your weapons and characters through playing smart. Such a fine line...

Ahh man i remember the Krysae pirahna, and the unintentional turian soldier

joseph021775
07-07-2013, 04:50 PM
There will always be those who think one certain weapon,skill, or power is too much. The weapons in this game in some cases could use a little boost ie the rocket launchers. I can honestly see why an Infector would be a powerful weapon, the creep factor alone is enough. The weapon is only as good as the guy on the other end and it's always the ones on the losing end that gripe about what offed them. It's all about the mods, strategy, and who can hit the trigger faster. Don't like having to face a particular weapon in PVP? Don't go there or come up with a way around it.