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View Full Version : Sniper Rifles are terribad



Umbra Warrior
05-25-2013, 09:29 AM
Seriously. They don't have enough ammo and don't do enough damage. Only the smallest mooks get killed by a headshot. The elites take nearly three even when unshielded; That's beyond moronic. Sniper rifles either need to do more damage or get more ammo. As it stands, there's no reason to use them over a Heavy Carbine.

EDIT: Let me clarify here; The Bolt-Action Sniper Rifles are fine. They do more than enough damage for the ammo they have. My problem is specifically Semi-Autos. Their damage to ammo count ratio is way off.

Rule #346 of shooter game design: P=A+R*V. That's power of weapon equals ammo count plus reload speed times availability.

Omnifarious Xji
05-25-2013, 09:32 AM
If there was a weapon that could one shot any mob. Then that'd be the only weapon you'd see used in this game. That would be bad for balance and longevity.

TravelerX1
05-25-2013, 09:33 AM
Agree about the ammo. However the rest of it... disagree. They do significant damage with the right mods and perks. What I would like to see is a frigging silencer/stealth mod for them. So I can take out 2-3 enemies before the come running at me guns blazing.

Cerveau
05-25-2013, 09:34 AM
If there was a weapon that could one shot any mob. Then that'd be the only weapon you'd see used in this game. That would be bad for balance and longevity.

To be fair, the sniper rifles are so bad that I haven't even bothered and usually I'm that guy that hides in the bushes and only uses snipers.

Omnifarious Xji
05-25-2013, 09:35 AM
To be fair, the sniper rifles are so bad that I haven't even bothered and usually I'm that guy that hides in the bushes and only uses snipers.I've been doing fine with them, I can one shot most non Tanker esque enemies. Some Tankers I can one shot, but most take around three shots.

Cerveau
05-25-2013, 09:37 AM
When the game functions as expected, maybe, but because of lag, inability to reload, sometimes I can't even shoot, for me there's no point in using them.

IntenseSpirit
05-25-2013, 09:38 AM
If there was a weapon that could one shot any mob. Then that'd be the only weapon you'd see used in this game. That would be bad for balance and longevity.

Ever play Earth Defense Force: IA? The last guns you unlock one-shot anything hundreds of meters around, including teammates and most bosses!

Omnifarious Xji
05-25-2013, 09:46 AM
Ever play Earth Defense Force: IA? The last guns you unlock one-shot anything hundreds of meters around, including teammates and most bosses!
And that's probably why I've never heard of it before.

Deimos
05-25-2013, 09:47 AM
I routinely one shot mobs now, hitting them in the head is normally an instant kill.

Jackobite
05-25-2013, 10:07 AM
Only problem I see is ammo, Im chasing down lvl 10 in auto sniper and its depressing how fast I can burn thru it all.

Bolt action are good and powerfull, a nice headshot crit does what I expect.

Umbra Warrior
05-25-2013, 10:12 AM
Only problem I see is ammo, Im chasing down lvl 10 in auto sniper and its depressing how fast I can burn thru it all.

Bolt action are good and powerfull, a nice headshot crit does what I expect.

Yeah, I should of clarified; Semi-Auto's suck. My bolt action is fine, it's my Semi-Auto that chews through ammo and doesn't put out enough damage to off-set it. And the mooks don't drop enough ammo to off-set your limit. As far as I can tell, the Semi-Auto's are worthless in PvE. In PvP they're good at long range suppression and the ammo isn't really an issue since you can just die and get it back.

Pyth
05-25-2013, 10:16 AM
In the first couple weeks they felt balanced around single player. After recent enemy updates and the like, they're balanced around 0.5 player. They begin to lose viability (whatever they had of it) in player populated areas and co-op maps.

They need a large basic damage increase or a dramatic increase in their critical multiplier. I also believe that getting head shotted by a Bolt Action in PvP should result in an OSOK. Not a "take 6,000 damage and walk it off" deal.

shadowkin
05-25-2013, 10:24 AM
I JUST hit 20 with bolt snipers like 10 min ago and man i dunno why people keep saying this! The frontier repeater at least does crazy damage.

The emc sniper rifle needs tachyon (well they all need it imo). Like that u can one shot all mooks and like 4 shot elite blacklungs (with cloak or overcharge.

The vot bolters are eh, still trying to figure out the upside to their decreased damage lol.

Also with the emc, put extended mag and it will be almost a faster frontier repeater, since its reload is under 2 sec. But imo the frontier repeater is the best bolt action. 1279 with a 3.5 crit multi + tachyon and u do serious damage.

I looooove the sniper rifles in this game lol. Basically the only one lacking is the vot bolter, as i can't really find an upside.

The semis do need some looking into, but i think they really just need more ammo and they will be perfect. Modded right they can one shot raiders and mutants, but they still need more ammo for sure

zion
05-25-2013, 10:28 AM
the bolters knockback the enemies + the perk that gives 75% damage to knocked down enemies.... thats what its for :p

piercehead
05-25-2013, 10:35 AM
Only problem I see is ammo, Im chasing down lvl 10 in auto sniper and its depressing how fast I can burn thru it all.

Get the Assassin's Cache perk (just underneath Cloak) and never look back. You get a headshot and get 2 ammo back.

Umbra Warrior
05-25-2013, 10:46 AM
The semis do need some looking into, but i think they really just need more ammo and they will be perfect. Modded right they can one shot raiders and mutants, but they still need more ammo for sure

Like I said, I should have clarified; The Bolt Action ones seem fine. They do high damage but force you to zoom out after each shot and they have little ammo. The problem is Semi-Autos, which have far too little ammo for their damage output. I'd reckon bumping up the max ammo for Semi's to about 1.5X or 2X their current ammo count would be good. Basically, Semi's should be the middle ground between Assault Rifle and Bolt Action.

TravelerX1
05-25-2013, 11:01 AM
Get the Assassin's Cache perk (just underneath Cloak) and never look back. You get a headshot and get 2 ammo back.

Gonna have to try that!

TravelerX1
05-25-2013, 11:02 AM
Like I said, I should have clarified; The Bolt Action ones seem fine. They do high damage but force you to zoom out after each shot and they have little ammo. The problem is Semi-Autos, which have far too little ammo for their damage output. I'd reckon bumping up the max ammo for Semi's to about 1.5X or 2X their current ammo count would be good. Basically, Semi's should be the middle ground between Assault Rifle and Bolt Action.

Agree with you there 100%.

Jackobite
05-25-2013, 11:06 AM
Get the Assassin's Cache perk (just underneath Cloak) and never look back. You get a headshot and get 2 ammo back.

On your recommendation Iv equipped assassin again, I had three in it and iv added in a new shield with crit ammo regen so Ill give it a serious attempt see if I can get it to work this time.

All I need now is someone to aim properly for me :)

crasher
05-25-2013, 11:39 AM
I'll be screwed if I agree with you guys who think snipers are fine. I can do a DM roadblock alone.

Theres a Blacklung who spawns with welders at Tiburon Uplands who can self heal faster than I can shoot him with anything from 1010 bolters with a 1.3 fire rate down. A syphon SAW is the only thing that gets close, and by the time I'm done with a mag swap he's at or close to 100% again. I'm an E1950, so it's not like I have 25 minutes in the game and thinking I'm an elite, but I can't put enough grenades, CS-X, SAW and volter rounds on him to make a difference.
Railers?
Screw that.

Other snipers with 12XX damage?
No way do they load fast enough to give me a chance to get more than 2 shots into him before his in my face, and I can't g*t*f*o of his way on that narrow road.

Kiserai
05-25-2013, 11:48 AM
I saw you clarified that Bolt-Actions are fine but Semi-Autos aren't meeting your expectation. They really have a different niche. The semi-autos are better for the targets you can't one-shot but can still snipe, as long as ammo isn't a concern. Some co-ops or scenarios do well with it.

IMO, the Wolfhound is preferable, but semi-autos aren't terrible...they just aren't the mook-popper that bolt-actions are.

Adrena Chrome
05-25-2013, 11:50 AM
I think they are plenty powerful. I shoot a circle around everything tho... 2.80 bloom?? my AR has .02 bloom??? I don't get the inaccuracy. I can't headshot crap. I'm normally mr.sniper. they ruined it in this game. And leveling semi's to ten sucked. I had to run up and hip fire everything with scavenger and assasins cache. What's the point of a sniper if you hip fire everything??? I sent in feedback. I've posted several threads. Trion doesn't want snipers in the game. ego 3400

Coolrockski
05-25-2013, 11:50 AM
I JUST hit 20 with bolt snipers like 10 min ago and man i dunno why people keep saying this! The frontier repeater at least does crazy damage.

The emc sniper rifle needs tachyon (well they all need it imo). Like that u can one shot all mooks and like 4 shot elite blacklungs (with cloak or overcharge.

The vot bolters are eh, still trying to figure out the upside to their decreased damage lol.

Also with the emc, put extended mag and it will be almost a faster frontier repeater, since its reload is under 2 sec. But imo the frontier repeater is the best bolt action. 1279 with a 3.5 crit multi + tachyon and u do serious damage.

I looooove the sniper rifles in this game lol. Basically the only one lacking is the vot bolter, as i can't really find an upside.

The semis do need some looking into, but i think they really just need more ammo and they will be perfect. Modded right they can one shot raiders and mutants, but they still need more ammo for sure


Where do you get the frontier repeater from?

I use the semi-auto sniper in pvp and if doing well, I need to run for an ammo cache every 3 or 4 kills..

piercehead
05-25-2013, 11:52 AM
I'll be screwed if I agree with you guys who think snipers are fine. I can do a DM roadblock alone.

Theres a Blacklung who spawns with welders at Tiburon Uplands who can self heal faster than I can shoot him with anything from 1010 bolters with a 1.3 fire rate down. A syphon SAW is the only thing that gets close, and by the time I'm done with a mag swap he's at or close to 100% again. I'm an E1950, so it's not like I have 25 minutes in the game and thinking I'm an elite, but I can't put enough grenades, CS-X, SAW and volter rounds on him to make a difference.
Railers?
Screw that.

Other snipers with 12XX damage?
No way do they load fast enough to give me a chance to get more than 2 shots into him before his in my face, and I can't g*t*f*o of his way on that narrow road.

This is the thing - snipers are not ideal for every situation/enemy. Ideally no weapon should be. Snipers are high burst damage, not sustained damage. I know exactly the area you mean, and I was using a sniper on him and got properly annoyed. Switched to an SMG and hosed him and his healers down.

piercehead
05-25-2013, 11:54 AM
Where do you get the frontier repeater from?
You can either get one from Top Notch by spending some rep, or I believe the new fast travel point in NE san francisco.

JaygunJesile
05-25-2013, 12:52 PM
Frontier repeater( semi auto)

Blue color, fire nano, all slots unlocked, survivalist perk, Crit mod perk, cost of 2000 scrip

can be bought from the cabin hermit vendor (with the farm fields by it) that is southeast of Muir process plant.

-Best semi-auto that is easy to get. The fire nano will help with fast recharging shield enemies as the fire will countinue to do damage while you reload. Key to fighting the blacklungs is to take out his droids, get some distance and strafe and shoot. Survivalist perk, when paired with another survivalist weapon, gives I believe 2-3% more damage on a full health target. Leveled it on Hulkers in san quentin and random wandering hulkers. Very easy

Frontier bolt action

Blue color, Poo boots nano, all slots unlocked, survivalist perk, Crit mod perk, cost of 2000 scrip

Can be bought from the toolworks normal vendor.

-Best bolt action that is easy to get. Poo boots helps when you go for a body shot they don't move as fast so follow up shots are easier. Leveled it at sutro tower in SF. You get great headshots off of the Dark matter as they don't rush you. And you get keycodes when you complete the Emergency. 2 i believe.


Perks I used: Ammo regen on crit, 30% damage from cloak, crit bonus for kneeling, crit bonus for enemy facing you and extra damage one for being on a higher elevation. the survivalist perk on the weapon was also helpful. Was one shoting elite 99ers, and two shoting the goldrushers.

Sniper weapons are not LMG's. It is not a rush weapon. When you find group of targets you need to survey the terrain, find your higher elevation and then go to town. pick off the fast closers first as they will put you in a panick quick. then go for the slow ones that stay at a distance. Good to have cover around you. Use a fast recharge shield. That's how I did it and it was fun, albeit a bit tedious at times.

zion
05-25-2013, 01:17 PM
ever thought of shooting the lill robots around him first?:rolleyes:

Grant
05-25-2013, 01:29 PM
Agree about the ammo. However the rest of it... disagree. They do significant damage with the right mods and perks. What I would like to see is a frigging silencer/stealth mod for them. So I can take out 2-3 enemies before the come running at me guns blazing.

Agree about the ammo? What do you want? Sniper Machine Gun? It suppose to have this amount of ammo. And it's not like your going to watch sunset until enemy appear to shot them with one shot unless it's headshot.

Umbra Warrior
05-25-2013, 02:05 PM
Agree about the ammo? What do you want? Sniper Machine Gun? It suppose to have this amount of ammo. And it's not like your going to watch sunset until enemy appear to shot them with one shot unless it's headshot.

The Semi-Auto's should be the middle ground between Assault Rifle and Bolt-Action. The damage they do would be fine if they had more ammo. As it stands, it takes nearly two mags to take out something like a tanker, even when I'm hitting him in all the right spots, so I end up running out of ammo. Since I started using Semi's for the pursuit, I've had to stop in the middle of a fight and switch it out due to a lack of ammo about 4 times now. Compare that to my SAW which as fine accuracy and a huge ammo count and only does 200 less points. With that sucker I could take on multiple tankers and huge amounts of enemies and never worry about ammo. Before I started chasing these weapon pursuits I was using that SAW since I started and only ever ran out of ammo twice, both times during an Arkfall.

zzzornbringer
05-25-2013, 02:06 PM
i agree that they have little ammo but they do a ****load of damage and they give you a huge range advantage.

on the other hand... if i had more ammo, i wouldn't even have to enter a enemy base. most enemies wouldn't even come near me.

AngryFire
05-25-2013, 02:45 PM
This is the thing - snipers are not ideal for every situation/enemy. Ideally no weapon should be. Snipers are high burst damage, not sustained damage. I know exactly the area you mean, and I was using a sniper on him and got properly annoyed. Switched to an SMG and hosed him and his healers down.

Yes with 99ers the healers should be your first targets, no healers = no regen :) I use snipers on blacklungs but an AR is more suited (frc assault carbine, ftw!). Normally I snipe the healers and move in for the bigger targets with ar.

Valethar
05-25-2013, 02:49 PM
That's odd. I run almost exclusively with a sniper rifle, and have no problem taking down Biomen, Tankers, Forges and even the occasional Hulker with one. Yes, they take longer, but the damage is appropriate for the Semi, given the faster fire rate.

piercehead
05-25-2013, 03:22 PM
Normally yes, but this particular Blacklung seems to have healer bots that spawn a lot faster than you can kill them with a bolt action.

piercehead
05-25-2013, 03:33 PM
Frontier repeater( semi auto)
Blue color, fire nano, all slots unlocked, survivalist perk, Crit mod perk, cost of 2000 scrip
can be bought from the cabin hermit vendor (with the farm fields by it) that is southeast of Muir process plant.
Frontier bolt action
Blue color, Poo boots nano, all slots unlocked, survivalist perk, Crit mod perk, cost of 2000 scrip
Can be bought from the toolworks normal vendor.


The amount of slots (and which) that are unlocked will depend on your EGO level (e.g. I'm 2020 and currently can only get one slot on all vendor items). Also the Toolworks normal (and rep) vendor only sells me a green Frontier Repeater (note: the "Repeater" is the bolt-action).

Untamed Gunner
05-25-2013, 03:46 PM
I love the semi auto sniper bro just add some mods my rife does 683 damage and has a 27 clip
Ican take out atleast 2 alite guys in one clip. Plus very important keep using it as you level trust me it will be your sniper of choice they can become a bad *** weapon

Umbra Warrior
05-25-2013, 03:52 PM
Okay, alot of you are having trouble with what I am saying. So let me try saying this again:

Semi-Auto's don't do enough damage to offset their ammo count.

This is a simple design oversight; Semi's and Bolt's both share the same ammo count, yet do different damage. This leads to an imbalance in the damage to ammo count ratio of Semi's due to the ammo count having to also take Bolt's into account. A simple fix would be to separate the ammo count's, create a new one just for Semi's, and increase their max ammo size by about 1.5-2X it's current count.

Dazz
05-25-2013, 03:56 PM
I've been doing fine with a bolt action. One shot-one kill on dark matter snipers. I have a problem with the double tap semis. 2nd shot is WAY high. You can try it yourself by shooting one with a splatter nano, or something that glows a little bit where the rounds hit. If you're going for a head shot, you're basically wasting half your ammo cuz the 2nd round doesn't hit anything. I suppose if you really took the time to figure it out, you might be able to pull off a body shot and the 2nd would be a headshot. That's assuming the mob didn't move after the 1st one.

Anarchos
05-25-2013, 04:05 PM
If they only changed the max sniper ammo to somewhere like 150-200 it would be very nice.

Overcharge + double tap headshot works too! :P

D351
05-25-2013, 04:11 PM
Yeah, semi's blaze through ammo.

More importantly, love Traveler's idea of a stealth mod. Would love some thing that gives a certain distance where they don't know where the shot came from.

Strahd
05-25-2013, 04:28 PM
Aside from using perks/shields/mag mods I have to agree that the Semi-auto Sniper Rifle's are lacking on the ammo side given their increased rate of fire over the bolt actions. T

Thankfully though they (Trion) does seem to have fixed the scope issues with most if not all guns on game minus one issue that for me is more personal preference than anything. Why do Sniper Rifles share the same distance with all other guns utilizing scopes regarding the draw distance. I cannot understand how it is that someone using say an AR with a scope seems to be able to target enemies at the same distance as I do, using a sniper rifle, in both PvE and PvP. Like I said just a personal preference but the sniper rifle should be able to spot and engage enemies at a much greater distance than an AR/LMG/SMG/Pistol.

cusman
05-25-2013, 05:11 PM
Bay Area enemies that are not "mini-bosses" are all one shot killed by Bolt-Action Sniper and two shot killed by Semi-Auto... provided you have the right perks, bonuses, mods, etc.

Also, even while the Semi-Auto doesn't one-shot kill enemies, it staggers them and the second shot is within seconds so about the same speed of taking out enemies as the Bolt-Action Sniper.

The main benefit of the Bolt-Action Sniper other than better feel of the kills is that it doesn't alert other mobs to your location when you do one-shot kills, but the two shot kills of Semi Auto always alert others to you.

JaygunJesile
05-25-2013, 05:59 PM
@Piercehead

You're right, the bolt action was a green one and forgot about the mod/ego thing. Was going off of memory when i typed it up. Still a great and easily acessable bolt action. slap some white mods on it and good to go. one sutrotower emergency was netting me about 500,000 weapon exp. Plus about 120 kills for the snipe from shadow persuit.

When i did my semi auto, i used overcharge as a perk. no recoil whatsoever. It made those doubletap semi autos work really good.

piercehead
05-26-2013, 08:29 AM
When i did my semi auto, i used overcharge as a perk. no recoil whatsoever. It made those doubletap semi autos work really good.

That's an interesting setup there. Hadn't even thought of utilising the recoil benefits of Overcharge with the Ranger - I tend to never use them cause I end up wasting shots.

Paklo
05-26-2013, 06:51 PM
Double-tap semi-auto sniper + assassin's cache + other sniper perks + the right mods + the right rifle + cloak + high ground = explody heads and plenty of ammo. Also a lot of morbid satisfaction. :cool: