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Bananaslaer101
06-09-2013, 09:54 PM
i Give them props for making a console mmo and what not but some of these people think thats there only bargaining tool. this game is seriously glitchy and buggy and everyone defends it with excuses like every mmo has a bad launch and its a console mmo and tons of other things too but honestly you can say that all you want the game is still really buggy so stop defending it. trion will hopefully fix it eventually but for now its just not good.

Dist0rt3d Hum0r
06-09-2013, 10:03 PM
You know what I find amusing? The difference between these forums and Bethesda's. Bethesda is notorious for producing buggy-*** games. I used to visit their forums for the Elderscrolls series and there is one huge difference between those forums and these:

They handle the bugs like adults.

Seriously. I read a lot of the threads/posts here and feel like I'm back in Junior High, but over there they're sensilble, patient, and realize that these things take time to fix. Aside from that they know and expect new bugs to come out with each patch because thats what happens with games, especially MMOs. You fix one thing and break 3 more.

Trion will fix their game, but until then whiners will whine and defenders will defend. Tis the cycle of forums life.

alred
06-09-2013, 10:15 PM
I think the game is a lot better then what I played during beta and the first few weeks of launch.
Heck now it seems great.
Though I did do an emergency that required me to kill all the dark matter. And I killed all the dark matter I could see/find but the emergency "froze" and wouldn't complete. So I just opened a bug report in game and sent it in. No big deal as I get more scrip from Arkfalls then anywhere else.

KM Cold
06-09-2013, 10:19 PM
i Give them props for making a console mmo and what not but some of these people think thats there only bargaining tool. this game is seriously glitchy and buggy and everyone defends it with excuses like every mmo has a bad launch and its a console mmo and tons of other things too but honestly you can say that all you want the game is still really buggy so stop defending it. trion will hopefully fix it eventually but for now its just not good.

DONT PLAY THE GAME KID. Get off the forums and go do something else

Leold
06-09-2013, 10:38 PM
You know what I find amusing? The difference between these forums and Bethesda's. Bethesda is notorious for producing buggy-*** games. I used to visit their forums for the Elderscrolls series and there is one huge difference between those forums and these:

They handle the bugs like adults.

Seriously. I read a lot of the threads/posts here and feel like I'm back in Junior High, but over there they're sensilble, patient, and realize that these things take time to fix. Aside from that they know and expect new bugs to come out with each patch because thats what happens with games, especially MMOs. You fix one thing and break 3 more.

Trion will fix their game, but until then whiners will whine and defenders will defend. Tis the cycle of forums life.
Definitely agree with this. There were plenty of bugs in Oblivion and Skyrim and posts were made reporting them in the proper sub forums. In contrast, these general forums continually get flooded with bug reports and complaints, many being repetitive or about a known issue. Many of these things don't have super easy fixes, so it could take some time and won't always be a flawless fix.

Kessler
06-09-2013, 10:44 PM
If I had to deal with the ton of whiny, entitled, 12 year old punks that swamp these forums with whine posts, I would have sucked on a shotgun ages ago.

Sure the bugs, dc's and glitches annoy me. Sure I'm annoyed when a patch makes things worse. Frankly though the tone of so many of the posts around here just reeks of spoiled brat, the type of kid you wish it was legal to slap the **** out of and I hate them infinitely more than I am annoyed by trion.

c4l1d3n
06-09-2013, 10:51 PM
teh interwebs go figure..
http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o763/5IVE5/Gifs/tumblr_m66rlwDJ1h1rnvlqy_zpsf40d078c.gif

Dist0rt3d Hum0r
06-09-2013, 10:51 PM
Definitely agree with this. There were plenty of bugs in Oblivion and Skyrim and posts were made reporting them in the proper sub forums. In contrast, these general forums continually get flooded with bug reports and complaints, many being repetitive or about a known issue. Many of these things don't have super easy fixes, so it could take some time and won't always be a flawless fix.

Its got to be the player base. I'd be confident in saying that the general shooter playerbase is immature, impatient, younger kids while the general RPG playerbase are the more mature, laid back, patient type. Combine those two into one game, an MMOTPS, and you get these forums.

Sdric
06-09-2013, 10:55 PM
Trion had to release this game early due to the Tv show release,
I don't think it was pleasent for them to release it as bugged as it was.
The whole chunck of work that was left got packed on just a few shoulders after a huge bunch of Devs got fired.
One has to accept that they were facinga lot of issues themselves.

However, I agree within a developement time of 5 years a better product could've been possible.
Never the less Defiance turned out to be quite fun for me.
I just hope for a solid PvP patch.


I'm trying to be objective.
While there definitely is justified critic, there's also a lot of unfair bashing.

Dist0rt3d Hum0r
06-09-2013, 11:08 PM
While there definitely is justified critic, there's also a lot of unfair bashing.

Agreed.

/10char

Durva360
06-10-2013, 12:42 AM
You know what I find amusing? The difference between these forums and Bethesda's. Bethesda is notorious for producing buggy-*** games. I used to visit their forums for the Elderscrolls series and there is one huge difference between those forums and these:

They handle the bugs like adults.

Seriously. I read a lot of the threads/posts here and feel like I'm back in Junior High, but over there they're sensilble, patient, and realize that these things take time to fix. Aside from that they know and expect new bugs to come out with each patch because thats what happens with games, especially MMOs. You fix one thing and break 3 more.

Trion will fix their game, but until then whiners will whine and defenders will defend. Tis the cycle of forums life.

At least Trion is working on fixing the bugs. Bethesda never fixed the glitch with Serana (sorry if thats not how her name is spelled) Still am unable to get her to follow me again and Bethesda even said they weren't going to fix it.

Fiancee
06-10-2013, 12:49 AM
LOL. I see hate constantly. Id put this game's hate level to same bar with SWTOR. And thats ALOT.

Leold
06-10-2013, 01:16 AM
And thats ALOT.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_D_Z-D2tzi14/S8TRIo4br3I/AAAAAAAACv4/Zh7_GcMlRKo/s1600/ALOT.png

Off topic, but a combination of seeing Dist0rt3d's avatar and this sentence made me do it.

Vraesh
06-10-2013, 01:37 AM
Bethesda never released a product as buggy as this one, and Ive been purchasing their games since 1994.
And that includes the 90's era of wonky sound card/graphics card issues.

Fiox
06-10-2013, 02:50 AM
Lol nice lie bethesdas had been far buggier than this game

Wuffletronics
06-10-2013, 03:00 AM
Bethesda never released a product as buggy as this one, and Ive been purchasing their games since 1994.
And that includes the 90's era of wonky sound card/graphics card issues.

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/topic/28937930/why-on-earth-are-bethesdas-games-so-buggy

http://www.vgchartz.com/article/82667/stop-supporting-broken-games/

http://www.examiner.com/article/are-bethesda-games-too-buggy

http://venturebeat.com/2011/12/06/fixing-skyrim-would-take-a-lot-of-time-according-to-developer/

I will not deny that Defiance has a helluva lot of issues, but when an important story npc decides Hey! Screw you! and sinks out of the world or flies away....yeah.

Myria
06-10-2013, 03:43 AM
The difference between these forums and Bethesda's. Bethesda is notorious for producing buggy-*** games.

Ah, but you leave out the other side of the equation -- Bethesda is also famous for producing games unlike any other. Games with huge immersive worlds where you can do or be just about anything. Games that can be modified by the playerbase so that you very nearly can literally do or be just about anything. Games you can play for hundreds of hours and still not have seen more than a fraction of what there was to do.

Bethesda has earned people's patience with their bugs and glitches.

Defiance has not, and that's why the two aren't even remotely comparable.

If Bethesda released a Fallout or Elder Scrolls game that had a tiny world, one short storyline, and extremely little variation in game play options, any patience for the problems in such a game would be nil, and rightfully so.

Covington
06-10-2013, 04:29 AM
I think the game is a lot better then what I played during beta and the first few weeks of launch.
Heck now it seems great.


This is true for me too. After the hell of beta/alpha/stress tests this seems nearly finished in comparison. As far as Bethesda goes I STILL can't finish Fallout because DLC is STILL bugged. So they fail harder than any other company in my eyes.

Wuffletronics
06-10-2013, 04:41 AM
Apologies, Myria, but while I do like Bethesda games, they have more than their fair share of bugs and glitches. You should not base your claims simply on your own experience, but that of others as well. Bethesda is an immersive single player designed to pamper you and you alone, and thus makes it easy to create an immersive experience. However, when that fails and your entire save file becomes corrupt or you cannot pass certain story events because it's hella bugged all up, there are problems.

With Defiance, it's also hella bugged all up but it's also a cross-platform mmorpg that's supposed to focus more on group experiences rather than any single individual, meaning balance and fair play is a huge issue that needs severe scrutiny.

And you cannot bring the modding community into this, as one is an offline single player game and the other is...well, the total opposite. Any change asides from aesthetic, such as changing gameplay or mechanical behavior is otherwise known as hacking or scripting or what have you.

drackiller
06-10-2013, 05:14 AM
Bethesda never released a product as buggy as this one, and Ive been purchasing their games since 1994.
And that includes the 90's era of wonky sound card/graphics card issues.
Dude you are a liar and clearly never played any Bethesda game b4.
I love Oblivion, Fallout`s and Skyrim but these games are the worst games when talking about glitchs and bugs.

PS: i played Chucky Egg in a Timex Sinclair.

Indra Echo
06-10-2013, 05:21 AM
i Give them props for making a console mmo and what not but some of these people think thats there only bargaining tool. this game is seriously glitchy and buggy and everyone defends it with excuses like every mmo has a bad launch and its a console mmo and tons of other things too but honestly you can say that all you want the game is still really buggy so stop defending it. trion will hopefully fix it eventually but for now its just not good.


Does the game need fixes? Sure does and a lot. All games released in the last few years or more could also and many of them never get or got them.

I look at it like this. Bethesda/Activision-IW, Treyarch/EA and many others that sell millions and millions of games each year, many of which are re-rolls of games they have been creating since God was a boy, keep making games with the same freaking bugs and more.

Bethesda with Oblivion bricked a lot of PS3s and for many if you played to the end with it on a harder mode (meant more foes), the game slowed so much the end battle was impossible to play. It had freezeups, bugs, and flaws in all versions and so on. And Skyrim has them too. Fallout 3 and New Vegas had them too. To be clear some of these were created by smaller companies within Bethesda but they are all basically the same game with different stories and settings, and they all have the same issues.

Black Ops 2 is the latest in a long line of CoD games-again, basically the same game all along the way with of course a different story and all-but MP is the same CoD re-roll. And in each CoD game there has been a long list of bugs, glitches, exploitable issues, and yet Black Ops 2 has them all.

The point here is some other games by really big companies are really the same game over and over and over again with a new look, but they still are not fixed, never will be.

And Trion is doing something different, so Defiance was destined to have bugs as well. But Trion must learn as they go how to fix things they have no history of seeing before in games like Defiance.

What happens here is people claim Trion is the worst company to ever see the light of day. And I say, good luck with that. There's worse. And I give more leeway to companies that are not creating the same cookie cutter games over and over again that have the same company bugs in them. I don't give such companies a pass-the bugs do need to be fixed. But I'm not going to act like they just killed my puppy. I save that anger for the companies that are constantly making millions churning out the same old crap year after year and not fixing what's broken while trying to squeeze more money out of players.

Finish the Fight
06-10-2013, 05:23 AM
I think the bigger surprise isn’t that people who like the game are defending it on the game forums but the people who constantly complain about the game are STILL here playing and/or complaining. I kind of feel sorry for them.

Covington
06-10-2013, 05:41 AM
I think the bigger surprise isn’t that people who like the game are defending it on the game forums but the people who constantly complain about the game are STILL here playing and/or complaining. I kind of feel sorry for them.


They will move on to something else to complain about I have seen this for decades on the net.

Daholic
06-10-2013, 06:04 AM
Does the game need fixes? Sure does and a lot. All games released in the last few years or more could also and many of them never get or got them.

And Trion is doing something different, so Defiance was destined to have bugs as well. But Trion must learn as they go how to fix things they have no history of seeing before in games like Defiance.

What happens here is people claim Trion is the worst company to ever see the light of day. And I say, good luck with that. There's worse. And I give more leeway to companies that are not creating the same cookie cutter games over and over again that have the same company bugs in them. I don't give such companies a pass-the bugs do need to be fixed. But I'm not going to act like they just killed my puppy. I save that anger for the companies that are constantly making millions churning out the same old crap year after year and not fixing what's broken while trying to squeeze more money out of players.

What exactly is Trion doing different with Defiance? Yea the game/show tie-in is there but this has been done before with just about every movie-to game remake ive seen except its on a larger scale. Defiance isn't a stand-alone mmo, i'd even argue that without the show tie-ins, well..even with the show tie-ins its still average compared to other mmo's of its ilk.

Different huh? The premise of Defiance in theory is different, but that's not what you should hang your hat on. The game was created, packaged, shipped, and boasted as an MMO. There's no special category for Defiance, it doesn't get to stand alone because of the movie tie-ins, nor should anyone be obligated to watch the show. There is no label, or fine print that says "In order to get the most out of your gameplay, you must watch the show to keep up with all things Defiance". Though doing any meager amount of research with show that this game is based around a show of said name.

englishguy
06-10-2013, 06:25 AM
end of the day every game that is release has been rushed out for sale
then they patch the games later on.

defiance has some very bad bugs and should not had past game testing
i suppose it was rushed out for the tv show

when they patch it and fix the errors and also the dlc
who knows it might be the best online game going

they should had follow the tv show that what i dont like about the game :(

ironhands
06-10-2013, 07:20 AM
i Give them props for making a console mmo and what not but some of these people think thats there only bargaining tool. this game is seriously glitchy and buggy and everyone defends it with excuses like every mmo has a bad launch and its a console mmo and tons of other things too but honestly you can say that all you want the game is still really buggy so stop defending it. trion will hopefully fix it eventually but for now its just not good.

Many people anticipate bugs and have enough patience to deal with them. Also, when people say "seriously glitchy and buggy", they're making the assumption that it's the same for everyone, which simply isn't true. Some people, depending on how often the play, and how much they're paying attention, may not experience, or even notice many of these bugs - and that's not even getting into things people think are bugs, but are actually examples of underlying connectivity issues that Trion/Defiance have no control over.

baelrusk
06-10-2013, 07:32 AM
Many people anticipate bugs and have enough patience to deal with them. Also, when people say "seriously glitchy and buggy", they're making the assumption that it's the same for everyone, which simply isn't true. Some people, depending on how often the play, and how much they're paying attention, may not experience, or even notice many of these bugs - and that's not even getting into things people think are bugs, but are actually examples of underlying connectivity issues that Trion/Defiance have no control over.

Very true.

And because of all the "give it time" posts responses by people all over the place I have one question for them.
"How much time should we give them?"
Patience on problems only goes so far.

Many people are hassling Trion because we aren't seeing important progress in major issues that were known way before launch and still aren't addressed. This also due to very failed patches that break more. This is to pressure Trion to understand, they NEED to fix this.
I believe many people will calm further once we start seeing good results in THESE areas and patches that happen without incident. People aren't complaining to give up on the game.......they are complaining to get Trion to understand the importance of fixing these problems not at leisure.
Frankly......I spent my cash already. Spent, not donated. I want to see what I bought working as intended. A few minor bugs issues......fine. Too many bugs.........problem.

Just something note from when I did freelance work that I think has value here.
If I turned in a finished project that was subpar or not as well as I agreed. It would go past just not getting my pay. I'd lose standing I had with the client. Also.....if I paid anything in according to a retainment fee on my end to be the one to do the contracted project........I'd lose that fee.

TravelerX1
06-10-2013, 07:33 AM
Do I complain about things? Yes
Are there things about this game that need fixing? Yes
Is Trion doing all in all a good job? Yes, with the scope of the game and that they had to push it out for the TV Show.... it could be a hell of alot worse.

The game is very playable, and incredibly enjoyable, and I will be playing it for quite some time. Trion got alot of things right with this game, enough so to overlook the issues while they fix them.

ironhands
06-10-2013, 07:41 AM
Very true.

And because of all the "give it time" posts responses by people all over the place I have one question for them.
How much time should we give them?

Many people are hassling Trion because we aren't seeing important progress in major issues that were known way before launch and still aren't addressed. This also due to very failed patches that break more. This is to pressure Trion to understand, they NEED to fix this.
I believe many people will calm further once we start seeing good results in THESE areas and patches that happen without incident. People aren't complaining to give up on the game.......they are complaining to get Trion to understand the importance of fixing these problems not at leisure.

The individual should give them as much time as they want to. There's no magic time that people should wait. If they don't want to wait, they're free to move along, and hopefully return down the road. We aren't paying a subscription fee, so we're not really losing anything by waiting.

What massive bugs still need to be addressed? Personally I haven't encountered many, other than a perk slot, and cluster grenades. As far as failed patches, if you're referring to the last outage that resulted from people being granted items on every login - I suspect this had something to do with the Rift side of things prepping for f2p and not directly something on the Defiance side of things, since the entitlement server is likely a shared resource.

I don't think any of these patches are being done at leisure, if you want it fast, they'll miss things. People will either complain that it's taking too long, or, they'll complain that it was rushed and they missed things. That's really what it comes down to.

Kessler
06-10-2013, 07:46 AM
I just wished everyone that was going to post a bitter, entitled whine thread would consider how many hours they have put into the game so far. My shelves are filled with games that were very good but I finished them in 15-18 hours or so. I've probably put easily 10 times that many hours into defiance so far it has paid for itself over and over and over. So I cut trion a little slack, I've more than gotten my money's worth.

Gabrielle
06-10-2013, 07:54 AM
'cause, let us see...
I happen to love the game, haters happen to hate it, I don't understand them, they don't understand me, they think progress is a keyboard button and I think progress is a long process of time and effort from people like me with basic human needs
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Rd5Yu7n41wM/T1r0RVXuyAI/AAAAAAAAAqk/aOjLjQZfWC4/s223/explode.gif

I agree with fellow beta/alpha testers, it's a lot better now.

Indra Echo
06-10-2013, 07:55 AM
What exactly is Trion doing different with Defiance? Yea the game/show tie-in is there but this has been done before with just about every movie-to game remake ive seen except its on a larger scale. Defiance isn't a stand-alone mmo, i'd even argue that without the show tie-ins, well..even with the show tie-ins its still average compared to other mmo's of its ilk.

Different huh? The premise of Defiance in theory is different, but that's not what you should hang your hat on. The game was created, packaged, shipped, and boasted as an MMO. There's no special category for Defiance, it doesn't get to stand alone because of the movie tie-ins, nor should anyone be obligated to watch the show. There is no label, or fine print that says "In order to get the most out of your gameplay, you must watch the show to keep up with all things Defiance". Though doing any meager amount of research with show that this game is based around a show of said name.


It's an MMO released for consoles and PCs-that is unique. I never said anything about the game and show tie in. No one has truly attempted to create an MMO (and shooter MMO) on that kind of scope so far. No MMOs aren't new, I never said they were. But doing this is new. And even on the PC with the MMOs there, some of them started with very bland stagnant environments. It's not easy to create for consoles games of this scope and size that have dynamic environments.

And this is also new to Trion as opposed to the very buggy games released by other companies when they've been creating the same freaking game for years and just re-skinning it. That's my point. I'm not saying Defiance is perfect (far from it), but what I am saying is that when people complain here they act as if Trion wrote the book on making flawed games or that they are the worst company, their support is the worst, and blah blah blah.

The truth is none of that is true. They are the only gaming company I know of that actually does talk to players (no they don't answer every question or address every issue) and the only one I've played that has in-game ways to contact support and report issues, offer suggestions, and so on.

The worst company isn't the one that does something different and has problems-it's the company that keeps making the same thing with the same (and new) errors year after year. And it's the company that after a few months of patches decides that's enough and just leaves the bugs, even as they release more DLC or "special" versions of the game. It's the company that releases the game on a different platform and decides to funnel players to a self-help and peer help tech support site, instead of allowing new buyers to get support from the company.

And as far as beta testing which another poster was pointing to-that bugs should be found and fixed in beta testing. Well, again Trion isn't breaking new ground here. I've done private beta testing for games, and guess what-they all do it. As beta testers we go through and repeatedly report things like freeze ups, out of map issues, lost items, loss of all progress, loss of items over time, non-spawning items, characters, and more-and some might get "fixed" in beta, but most exist in the released version where it's hoped they'll be overlooked and patched quickly. And when the patch comes, it breaks something else. Sound familiar-that happens in all games, not just Defiance. And Defiance and Trion are both much smaller entities than those others that have beend doing this for years.

I'm not saying this shouldn't be fixed, but I am saying put it in perspective.

Eltruism
06-10-2013, 07:58 AM
Because many people like the company for the game they've sold them. No brainer.

Indra Echo
06-10-2013, 08:02 AM
'cause, let us see...
I happen to love the game, haters happen to hate it, I don't understand them, they don't understand me, they think progress is a keyboard button and I think progress is a long process of time and effort from people like me with basic human needs
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Rd5Yu7n41wM/T1r0RVXuyAI/AAAAAAAAAqk/aOjLjQZfWC4/s223/explode.gif

I agree with fellow beta/alpha testers, it's a lot better now.

And that is exactly the problem.

The reason games are being released with bugs that should be fixed in alpha and beta is because of a lack of patience. The impatience comes from things such as shareholders and even players, but can be related to the timing of shows/movies games are tied to. The same people that want a fix yesterday may be the reason in part for games being released before they are ready.

Games also are released due to the timing of the fiscal calendar for a company AND due to the timing of the release of competitor's games.

This used to happen with movies-one company announces to great fanfare they are going to create a giant gorilla movie and another company sees people can't wait for the release, so the race is on to release a movie first and quality goes down the drain. And sometimes tv tries to compete with movies-several Titanic themed things and tv movies were created at the same time as the theatrical version.

No one today wants to wait for any long term goal-it's all about getting it all today.

ironhands
06-10-2013, 08:06 AM
This used to happen with movies-one company announces to great fanfare they are going to create a giant gorilla movie and another company sees people can't wait for the release, so the race is on to release a movie first and quality goes down the drain. And sometimes tv tries to compete with movies-several Titanic themed things and tv movies were created at the same time as the theatrical version.

No one today wants to wait for any long term goal-it's all about getting it all today.

Which is why we have the first Fantastic 4 movie.
http://images.teamsugar.com/files/users/1/13839/24_2007/Ffmovie1994.jpg

Random
06-10-2013, 08:44 AM
Us versus Them.

It is more simple than you can imagine.

It's a hard time to like the game for many with all the issues, and it's a time where many like it.

They are all doing a not so strange power battle of us versus them .

Pro-Trion folks believe in the future Trion will fix this. They are living on hope. They want to pep talks devs to keeping at it. Meanwhile even the most pro-of pro-trion (like myself) are losing morale.

The Ant-Trion believe this game is a bilk. They sold a more broken and less polished game that almost literally everything online.
They feel mad because it's a great game that is beyond borked .

These are the perspectives of the Us versus them.

conquererspledge
06-10-2013, 09:02 AM
You guys are taking all this **** too seriously. Get the **** over yourselves.

Pasha
06-10-2013, 09:03 AM
Because Trion has best customer service in the industry. Also Rift is a very good game =)

(Defiance is very different from Rift: questionable graphics, unfinished animations, buggy - I guess it's related to multi-platform support and lack of time to polish game)

3rdpig
06-10-2013, 09:06 AM
People who are defending Trion are probably one of two types.

1. They're enjoying the game and haven't been that inconvenienced by any of the major bugs.

2. They're just sick and tired of the immature crying and whining from the CoD kiddies who can't seem to handle the slightest problem in their lives without getting on the internet and going on a expletive laced tirade.

Shogo_Yahagi
06-10-2013, 09:28 AM
People who are defending Trion are probably one of two types.

1. They're enjoying the game and haven't been that inconvenienced by any of the major bugs.

2. They're just sick and tired of the immature crying and whining from the CoD kiddies who can't seem to handle the slightest problem in their lives without getting on the internet and going on a expletive laced tirade.

That seems like a well-thought out analysis that explains what both sides are thinking in a reasonable way. :rolleyes:

Xanirus
06-10-2013, 09:45 AM
OP asks a question that ultimately serves no purpose except to start up ****, has been asked and answered a million times before by others, 4 pages of responses and yet has yet to respond as if the entire post was useless.

Yup...next.

Jett Loc
06-10-2013, 11:50 AM
i Give them props for making a console mmo and what not but some of these people think thats there only bargaining tool. this game is seriously glitchy and buggy and everyone defends it with excuses like every mmo has a bad launch and its a console mmo and tons of other things too but honestly you can say that all you want the game is still really buggy so stop defending it. trion will hopefully fix it eventually but for now its just not good.

Cause they love Trions sweaty balls in their mouths... Naw, most are respectful and give a great explaination to they support trion. Most hardcore fanboys and will call you names for the heck of it even if you have a legimate question...

fido9dido
06-10-2013, 12:03 PM
People who are defending Trion are probably one of two types.

1. They're enjoying the game and haven't been that inconvenienced by any of the major bugs.

2. They're just sick and tired of the immature crying and whining from the CoD kiddies who can't seem to handle the slightest problem in their lives without getting on the internet and going on a expletive laced tirade.


3- they played different games for different publishers and they know that these "Bugs" doesn't deserve all the whining and complaints they are making everywhere.

VolkeSin
06-10-2013, 12:24 PM
With all thats been said there is not much to add but my own opinion. I tend to like bugs cause they so annoying when they are there but when they get fixed you feel like

http://1funny.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/please-give.jpg

So remember the next time a bug gets fixed how much better you feel about playing.
FYI Defenders for the win

Rakshasa
06-10-2013, 02:22 PM
What exactly is Trion doing different with Defiance?

As Indra Echo says, it's an open-world MMO shooter available on PC, 360, and PS3. How many developers have ever even attempted such a thing? There are precious few mainstream MMO shooters that I'm aware of for the PC alone, but doing it multi-platform is practically unheard of.


People who are defending Trion are probably one of two types.

1. They're enjoying the game and haven't been that inconvenienced by any of the major bugs.

2. They're just sick and tired of the immature crying and whining from the CoD kiddies who can't seem to handle the slightest problem in their lives without getting on the internet and going on a expletive laced tirade.

Why can't we be both? ;)

Ataraxia
06-10-2013, 02:26 PM
I don't defend Trion, they've screwed up considerably from time to time (although I do think they're improving their ****) but I don't spam the boards with pointless rants either.

Daholic
06-10-2013, 02:42 PM
As Indra Echo says, it's an open-world MMO shooter available on PC, 360, and PS3. How many developers have ever even attempted such a thing? There are precious few mainstream MMO shooters that I'm aware of for the PC alone, but doing it multi-platform is practically unheard of.



Why can't we be both? ;)

DC Universe did it right?

Or are you saying that because its a shooter that makes it special in its own right, right?

Other than the fact that the game itself is IMO not very good as an MMO, well maybe for console people its heaven, but for pc its atrocious. H@ll, even comparing it to other shooters it still falls short, again IMO, I could careless about the multi plateform decision especially its clunky UI for pc, how is that an accomplishment in the grand scheme of it still being a sub standard mmo?

Barrik
06-10-2013, 02:50 PM
You know what I find amusing? The difference between these forums and Bethesda's. Bethesda is notorious for producing buggy-*** games. I used to visit their forums for the Elderscrolls series and there is one huge difference between those forums and these:

They handle the bugs like adults.

Seriously. I read a lot of the threads/posts here and feel like I'm back in Junior High, but over there they're sensilble, patient, and realize that these things take time to fix. Aside from that they know and expect new bugs to come out with each patch because thats what happens with games, especially MMOs. You fix one thing and break 3 more.

Trion will fix their game, but until then whiners will whine and defenders will defend. Tis the cycle of forums life.

^^ This. After being on too many mmo forums to count, this is easily the whiniest by far. Horrible forum community. Constructive criticism is great, but so many folks don't know how to be constructive here. It's a bummer really.

ironhands
06-10-2013, 02:56 PM
Or are you saying that because its a shooter that makes it special in its own right, right?

an MMO is easier in some respects, that a shooter MMO. a traditional MMORPG can deal with a lot of lag, but when you're talking about a shooter, you need a lot of client/server data, many many packets a second to cover positional data. an MMORPG can use a lot of "close enough" code for that, and can survive with a handful of packets each second.

jbob spittlewop
06-10-2013, 02:56 PM
Because we enjoy the game...is it so hard to believe that people who enjoy something would defend it?

Daholic
06-10-2013, 03:07 PM
an MMO is easier in some respects, that a shooter MMO. a traditional MMORPG can deal with a lot of lag, but when you're talking about a shooter, you need a lot of client/server data, many many packets a second to cover positional data. an MMORPG can use a lot of "close enough" code for that, and can survive with a handful of packets each second.

So your saying that this game was either equally or harder than making an mmorpg like say Runes of Magic with over 7 different characters, each having 25+spells/skills ranging from up close (tanks, mele), to range (scouts, mages).

I don't want to misunderstand what your saying.

Rakshasa
06-10-2013, 03:08 PM
DC Universe did it right?

Or are you saying that because its a shooter that makes it special in its own right, right?

Other than the fact that the game itself is IMO not very good as an MMO, well maybe for console people its heaven, but for pc its atrocious. H@ll, even comparing it to other shooters it still falls short, again IMO, I could careless about the multi plateform decision especially its clunky UI for pc, how is that an accomplishment in the grand scheme of it still being a sub standard mmo?

Correct, DCUO isn't a shooter. Despite having gun-based abilities, it's an action-rpg that relies on target locking and assists, stat-based combat, etc. rather than being truly skill-based (aka 'twitch-based' targeting and shooting). DCUO is fun, and I enjoy it on the PS3 (the interface on the PC was a nightmare for me), but it's a very different kind of game. And not an option on the 360, of course.

As you say, the things you use to disqualify Defiance in your mind are just your opinion. As a shooter vet (console and PC), I find the core shooter gameplay mechanics to be tight and spot-on. As an MMO vet (mostly PC, some console), it's a refreshing change of pace and addictively enjoyable.

Our differing opinions of how well it accomplishes its goals don't change the fact that it pretty much stands alone in even having those goals (multiplatform open-world MMO shooter) to begin with.

Linamaria
06-10-2013, 03:13 PM
So your saying that this game was either equally or harder than making an mmorpg like say Runes of Magic with over 7 different characters, each having 25+spells/skills ranging from up close (tanks, mele), to range (scouts, mages).

I don't want to misunderstand what your saying.

Runes of Magic... I played this thing in 2009... Ugh... *vomit*

Jinto
06-10-2013, 03:14 PM
Well my question is why do so many people bash Trion when they know nothing about what is going on in the company and take the "News" on the net as if its 100% true. Sadly it seems as if we got all the COD washouts that do nothing but B*&%^ and moan about every thing just because its "Cool" if you rage on forums or just follow the crowd

If people put half the effort into support tickets than they do into "This game sucks" threads then Trion could pinpoint more errors and fix them faster as they dont have a huge 150 man team to test things like Blizzard or another Huge company

Daholic
06-10-2013, 03:16 PM
Runes of Magic... I played this thing in 2009... Ugh... *vomit*

????? Game was all kinds of epic lol

ironhands
06-10-2013, 03:41 PM
So your saying that this game was either equally or harder than making an mmorpg like say Runes of Magic with over 7 different characters, each having 25+spells/skills ranging from up close (tanks, mele), to range (scouts, mages).

I don't want to misunderstand what your saying.

in terms of the client/server connection; yes. number of spells or character classes have virtually no impact on the client/server connection, it's still the same packet of {clientX;abilityY;postionXYZA}, where a shooter requires: {clientX;abilityY;postionXYZ;mouseXY} AND requires that data faster, and far more often.

but really from a programing standpoint, it doesn't matter if your game has 2 or 20 character types, or 50000 spells, they're all just variations of the first one, and utilize the same code. you don't hard-code "fireball" and then "fireball 2", you code "spellname, effect, target" and pull the data from a database.

Effectively, it's one subroutine for each class of ability or skill to a certain degree. In defiance, there'd likely be a routine to handle all shields, all basic guns, shotguns, launchers, detonators, bmg, grenades and infectors. There likely wouldn't be one for each subtype, since they're all basically the same.

The complexity you're talking about, with more characters and skills, isn't programming; it's general game design. It doesn't have much to do with bugs, so much as core code, and how the effects of those skills or abilities are handled, and in the order they are processed by the client or server. That is why you'll see more balance and ability related bugs in an MMORPG, and why many of the bugs we see in Defiance are connection related

Valanga
06-10-2013, 03:45 PM
BAWWWWWW

Because not everyone's a whiner...

Odessa
06-10-2013, 04:07 PM
Every time something goes wrong I don't cringe about the issue. I cringe about the reaction. I can only imagine the age of the person posting the usual all caps and profanity laced threat as being very young. If any one of them stomped into a place of business and carried on like that they'd be tossed out, banned from returning and possibly arrested. There's a way to express your anger and disappointment while maintaining a level of civility. I thought they taught that in school.

The issues are frustrating, but Trion has been quick to isolate and fix the issues. I've played the game since launch and have been having a ball. It doesn't mean I don't have gripes. I just don't think that posting another thread on the same subject is going to help. If I see it's been posted, I move along or post on the most civilized one. I give info to help and move on.

tl;dr When it comes down to it, more people disagree based on the tone of the post, than the post itself.

Dist0rt3d Hum0r
06-10-2013, 04:17 PM
If Bethesda released a Fallout or Elder Scrolls game that had a tiny world, one short storyline, and extremely little variation in game play options, any patience for the problems in such a game would be nil, and rightfully so.

Thats just the thing. The world in Defiance is HUGE. Have you not looked at the rest of the map. I'm fairly confident in saying that we'll get all of that to play on. Its just in future DLC. This game is set to last years, and it has to because the TV show will, so there has to be enough content to last those years that this game will be out. If they released it all at once the game would be WAY ahead of the show and there would be even less immersion than there is now.

Aside from that Skyrim is about the same size as what we have in Defiance if not a little bigger. If we had cars in Skyrim as fast as the ones in Defiance then your tone would change. Bethesda's maps have only gotten smaller as the games go on. Look at Arena. That one included all of Tameriel. Since then the following games have only focused on bits and pieces of that region, Skyrim being the smallest thus far. Bethesda will hopefully step things up with ESO when that comes out, but I guarantee you that Bethesda will also release a "small map" in order to save for furtre DLC.

Kleptobrainiac
06-10-2013, 04:19 PM
Can we all just agree that the game is a joke already?

Seriously...

The TV program too.

Two years from now the fanboys will still be saying, "Every game has glitches & bugs two years in, look at ¥#$%±, that game still has bugs." I wonder if you guys do the same thing at restaurants when you're served a horrible meal. "Sure this steak is cold & unseasoned, but look at the steaks they serve at Sizzler, they are just as crappy so I'll just go on eating this trash happily."

Rakshasa
06-10-2013, 04:29 PM
I wonder if you guys do the same thing at restaurants when you're served a horrible meal. "Sure this steak is cold & unseasoned, but look at the steaks they serve at Sizzler, they are just as crappy so I'll just go on eating this trash happily."

Have you ever gotten a meal at a restaurant that you really enjoyed? Would you have suddenly decided you didn't enjoy your meal, just because someone at another table didn't enjoy theirs?

Your opinion is not everyone else's opinion.

Daholic
06-10-2013, 04:34 PM
Thats just the thing. The world in Defiance is HUGE. Have you not looked at the rest of the map. I'm fairly confident in saying that we'll get all of that to play on. Its just in future DLC. This game is set to last years, and it has to because the TV show will, so there has to be enough content to last those years that this game will be out. If they released it all at once the game would be WAY ahead of the show and there would be even less immersion than there is now.

Aside from that Skyrim is about the same size as what we have in Defiance if not a little bigger. If we had cars in Skyrim as fast as the ones in Defiance then your tone would change. Bethesda's maps have only gotten smaller as the games go on. Look at Arena. That one included all of Tameriel. Since then the following games have only focused on bits and pieces of that region, Skyrim being the smallest thus far. Bethesda will hopefully step things up with ESO when that comes out, but I guarantee you that Bethesda will also release a "small map" in order to save for furtre DLC.

Its not about the size of the map, but what you can do within the real estate of the map. I never liked comparing Skyrim to Defiance, its so difficult to make a valid argument for one over the other, and at the same time, how can anyone not include the 100+ dungeons that add upon the actual map size with Skyrim.

Have you seen the Reach dungeon? Amazing piece of world art! What I don't like is the scaling system in Skyrim. I cant express how much I loathe it with my very being. I have been spoiled with actual mmorpg's that zones the difficulty and punishes you for ever trying to skip from one area to the next.

Kessler
06-10-2013, 04:39 PM
Its not about the size of the map, but what you can do within the real estate of the map. I never liked comparing Skyrim to Defiance, its so difficult to make a valid argument for one over the other, and at the same time, how can anyone not include the 100+ dungeons that add upon the actual map size with Skyrim.

Have you seen the Reach dungeon? Amazing piece of world art! What I don't like is the scaling system in Skyrim. I cant express how much I loathe it with my very being. I have been spoiled with actual mmorpg's that zones the difficulty and punishes you for ever trying to skip from one area to the next.

I loved the scaling in skyrim it gave you so much freedom. After the escape from helgen you could pick a direction and go, spend 100's of hours without even touching the main story if you choose. I liked the zone method in other games too but I think it would have ruined skyrim's immersion.

Dist0rt3d Hum0r
06-10-2013, 04:41 PM
Two years from now the fanboys will still be saying, "Every game has glitches & bugs two years in, look at ¥#$%±, that game still has bugs." I wonder if you guys do the same thing at restaurants when you're served a horrible meal. "Sure this steak is cold & unseasoned, but look at the steaks they serve at Sizzler, they are just as crappy so I'll just go on eating this trash happily."

You have a funny way of comparing things...

Look at The Elderscrolls IV: Oblivion. Its been out since 2006 (7 years incase you cant do the math) and it still has bugs. Some of them gamebreaking. Skyrim still has a game breaking story bug for their Dawnstar DLC and thats almost been out for two years, and as someone stated earlier they announced that they're not going to fix it. So yes, there are games that still have bugs, even gamebreakers, two years after release. The only difference between Bethesda and Trion is that Trion is doing their best to fix every bug that we report. They can't fix it though if we dont report it, and reporting it does not mean jumping on these forums and throwing up a complain/whine thread in General Discussion; it means either opening up a support ticket if it's impeeding progress, filing a bug report if its not urgent, or throwing up a respectfully written and discriptive thread in the bugs section. I'm tired of seeing bug threads in the General section. Thats why there's a BUGS section of the forums.


Its not about the size of the map, but what you can do within the real estate of the map. I never liked comparing Skyrim to Defiance, its so difficult to make a valid argument for one over the other, and at the same time, how can anyone not include the 100+ dungeons that add upon the actual map size with Skyrim.

Have you seen the Reach dungeon? Amazing piece of world art! What I don't like is the scaling system in Skyrim. I cant express how much I loathe it with my very being. I have been spoiled with actual mmorpg's that zones the difficulty and punishes you for ever trying to skip from one area to the next.

I realize that its not the size of the map. My post was more in response to those that are using Skyrim's map to call Defiance's small. I'm all about the content too, and hey, I'm still playing Defiance for hours everyday so something was done to catch my interest.

And yes, Skyrim has some amazing world art. I highly agree with this.

Dooks
06-10-2013, 04:46 PM
Seriously. I read a lot of the threads/posts here and feel like I'm back in Junior High.

It an mmo ported to consoles, I would imagine consoles reflect 10-25 year old males as its largest population, not much difference between a 10 and 25 year old male socially so.......... ;)

Daholic
06-10-2013, 04:52 PM
I loved the scaling in skyrim it gave you so much freedom. After the escape from helgen you could pick a direction and go, spend 100's of hours without even touching the main story if you choose. I liked the zone method in other games too but I think it would have ruined skyrim's immersion.

Yea, as much as I hate to admit it, it would have definitely ruined it.

Daholic
06-10-2013, 04:57 PM
It an mmo ported to consoles, I would imagine consoles reflect 10-25 year old males as its largest population, not much difference between a 10 and 25 year old male socially so.......... ;)

This is exactly what I was saying in another thread about age demographics.

I would love to finally see a console mmo game that doesn't rely on stupid things like getting gold in a race in Defiance, or the same with DCUO. It really takes away from the essence of mmo's (IMO).

I would love to see a console mmo that isn't heavily accessable to any and all who purchase. I shouldn't be able to do back end content 2hrs into my gaming experience. These decisions to cater to the younger, more fragile mind of letting them win will doom an mmo for console.

baelrusk
06-10-2013, 05:38 PM
It an mmo ported to consoles, I would imagine consoles reflect 10-25 year old males as its largest population, not much difference between a 10 and 25 year old male socially so.......... ;)

Actually......I think it may have been designed more around the x-box.......given that on the PC it does have controller support.....X-Box controller support.

Kleptobrainiac
06-10-2013, 05:43 PM
I said...


Two years from now the fanboys will still be saying, "Every game has glitches & bugs two years in, look at ¥#$%±, that game still has bugs."

Then you said...


Look at The Elderscrolls IV: Oblivion. Its been out since 2006 (7 years incase you cant do the math) and it still has bugs. Some of them gamebreaking. Skyrim still has a game breaking story bug for their Dawnstar DLC and thats almost been out for two years, and as someone stated earlier they announced that they're not going to fix it. So yes, there are games that still have bugs, even gamebreakers, two years after release.

Now I say...

I told you so.

jbob spittlewop
06-10-2013, 05:50 PM
I said...



Then you said...



Now I say...

I told you so.

What you did was take the truth and criticize it, knowing full well that someone would point out said truth, solely so you could criticize them... Yet again for stating the truth... Well played.

Lupis Volk
06-10-2013, 05:53 PM
i Give them props for making a console mmo and what not but some of these people think thats there only bargaining tool. this game is seriously glitchy and buggy and everyone defends it with excuses like every mmo has a bad launch and its a console mmo and tons of other things too but honestly you can say that all you want the game is still really buggy so stop defending it. trion will hopefully fix it eventually but for now its just not good.

Because this game is unfairly bashed.

Esphyrian
06-10-2013, 07:16 PM
I've been playing the game since mid April on Xbox, and according to Raptr I have clocked 357hrs. I have not had any major issues I can think of. I may have been booted from the game 3-5 times, and experience some lag during peak times/events (i.e. Arkfalls, Sieges), but I have no complaints. I've been enjoying my experience, and I am very satisfied w/ my purchase. Only thing right now is I'm a little bored w/ the single player, as I'm not as good w/ PvP.

Lupis Volk
06-10-2013, 07:18 PM
I've been playing the game since mid April on Xbox, and according to Raptr I have clocked 357hrs. I have not had any major issues I can think of. I may have been booted from the game 3-5 times, and experience some lag during peak times/events (i.e. Arkfalls, Sieges), but I have no complaints. I've been enjoying my experience, and I am very satisfied w/ my purchase. Only thing right now is I'm a little bored w/ the single player, as I'm not as good w/ PvP.

had one major bug at the start. been DC a few tims not to peeved about that. other than that this game is enjoyable.

Barrik
06-10-2013, 07:47 PM
Can we all just agree that the game is a joke already?

Seriously...

The TV program too.

Two years from now the fanboys will still be saying, "Every game has glitches & bugs two years in, look at ¥#$%±, that game still has bugs." I wonder if you guys do the same thing at restaurants when you're served a horrible meal. "Sure this steak is cold & unseasoned, but look at the steaks they serve at Sizzler, they are just as crappy so I'll just go on eating this trash happily."

^^ perfect example of what I'm talking about. Nothing constructive at all, just whiney. We get it, you think the game is a joke and you're entitled to your opinion. But it's just that, your opinion. Enjoy a different game. This one isn't for you so you can move on now. Learn to let go.

ironhands
06-10-2013, 07:59 PM
^^ perfect example of what I'm talking about. Nothing constructive at all, just whiney. We get it, you think the game is a joke and you're entitled to your opinion. But it's just that, your opinion. Enjoy a different game. This one isn't for you so you can move on now. Learn to let go.
http://media.tumblr.com/3aa531f2d37a6fbf141c2936b0e1ab91/tumblr_inline_mjkw9sQHdX1qz4rgp.jpg

stray152
06-10-2013, 09:24 PM
This game mitigated tons of the conventional MMO issues... in pretty clever ways. Making the weapons stay at their base damages is awesome. That makes sense... no matter who is pulling the trigger a shot in the head is a shot in the head. I finish top 5 of most group events whether im using my high Ego character or my 150 Ego character... The ark falls are difficult enough to REQUIRE teamwork, they make you need the other characters.


If anything, yes, I wish it was a little slower paced, less cluttered, and more oriented towards survival. BUT that doesnt demerit the fact that this is a huge step in the RIGHT direction for online play. Do you think the first automobile came with AC and power steering. It is a ridiculous assumption to think innovation is a smooth process.

WoW is a glorified chat room...

This game isnt perfect, but I support the direction, so I'll drop money into it. Unlike the new online only consoles that I will never ever buy. And no one else should either, just switch to PC.