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duction
06-10-2013, 12:24 PM
c'mon trion sort this out, they need a tweak for pvp

greatdividers
06-10-2013, 12:27 PM
c'mon trion sort this out, they need a tweak for pvp

yeah what this guy said. i want to see the forums flooded with complaints about a different gun, these infector posts are getting old.

:rolleyes:

duction
06-10-2013, 12:28 PM
as old as the stupid amount of people using this over power'd gun

born2beagator
06-10-2013, 12:40 PM
as old as the stupid amount of people using this over power'd gun

I got a better Idea. How about you PvP whiners simply GET BETTER, and STOP ruining the game for those of us who enjoy the PvE more

duction
06-10-2013, 01:22 PM
one group of people that enjoy the infectors against all the others that hate them because they ruin the pvp match, stats add up in your favour.... honestly

Lord Zodiac
06-10-2013, 01:26 PM
QQ

/10char

Cyripax NeoPrime
06-10-2013, 01:33 PM
GOOD! I hope they never do. They nerfed infectors hardcore with the first patch. They went from novelty toys, to bieng useless crap in pve(which 80% of this game is, co-op and pve) just to please the 20% pvp whiners and thier 3 whole crummy maps. This game is not a pvp gam in its whole. Why do they keep nerfing and ruining the game for this sub-par pvp effort? .....because you all wont stop whining everytime someone keeps putting you down in pvp and just find a build to combat the infectors/shottys/cloak. Really. If they keep nerfing, there will always be a new most powerfull weapon, and next youll want that nerfed when ppl put you down with that. And the nerfs will continue untill the whole game is a balanced plate of shyt with no diversity. This just might not be the game for you, if your only into endgame pvp. Because the pvp in this game is by no means endgame, and not worth ruining 80% of the game for. Everytime you cry nerf, your putting another nail in the coffin friends. Hope your all having fun now while you still can.

If trion ever gets smart they will make seperate stats for pvp and pve. Its the only way they will save one from crippling the other.....because honestly, in pve infectors were useless on day 1. Then they hard up nerfed them....now you want another nerf?! . . . And only because of 1 infector to top it off. The anti sniper immunizer. The other infectors are sub par in pvp as it is.

born2beagator
06-10-2013, 01:37 PM
one group of people that enjoy the infectors against all the others that hate them because they ruin the pvp match, stats add up in your favour.... honestly

yep, and I'd wager the PvE group outnumbers the PvP. Honestly this game would probably run a lot smoother and have a lot more content if PvP wasn't in it at all.

Nefarious
06-10-2013, 01:49 PM
Yeah everyone just get better!

Just use the gun that auto aims and homes in on the target just like everyone else!

Problem solved!

lol at ****ing stupid jerk offs saying "just get better" der der der! Yeah get better at using the Auto Aim Bot Gun lmfao.

You don't grasp the concept that its not about getting better as much as it is everyone using one ****ing gun. It takes away from the over all experience that is Defiance PvP because one gun out does all the other guns and because of that everyone uses it, and because of everyone using the same exact thing it makes for super repetitive matches. Defiance PvP has a lot more to offer then what is being seen but doesint get the chance because of this crap.

And for ppl saying "get better" or QQ...you are the ones who should get better and quit QQ'ing at the fact that ppl are pointing out the obvious sore thumb known as Infectors which has basically made PvP utterly lame and boring. Ppl point these things out because they want game play with a better over all spread of things other then just a couple. And if you cant recognizes this simple concept then you ppl are everything that's wrong with Defiance.

Valentine
06-10-2013, 01:51 PM
Can always just make it hurt less in pvp or something lol. No need to get all riled up. I do agree it does take away from pvp though =C

mbergeron
06-10-2013, 01:53 PM
I got a better Idea. How about you PvP whiners simply GET BETTER, and STOP ruining the game for those of us who enjoy the PvE more

Now couldn't the same thing be said to the PvE players. Shouldn't they get better at the game that scales in enemy difficulty based on the number of players. Infectors still work fine for PvE just now you need to get a little closer to the enemies.

Nefarious
06-10-2013, 01:53 PM
GOOD! I hope they never do. They nerfed infectors hardcore with the first patch. They went from novelty toys, to bieng useless crap in pve .

I can kill herds of enemies with the Infector faster then any other gun in game. Yeaaa useless in pve.....

Its only the best gun in PvP but that doesint transfer over into PvE at all....same stats...Awesome in PvP....crap in PvE....sound logic..

greatdividers
06-10-2013, 01:54 PM
Just use the gun that auto aims and homes in on the target just like everyone else!

nobody said that bud.


Ppl point these things out because they want game play with a better over all spread of things other then just a couple. And if you cant recognizes this simple concept then you ppl are everything that's wrong with Defiance.

to repeat myself for the hundredth time

there will always be a few guns that are stronger than the rest, and they will be the most used in pvp. it doesn't matter if its infectors, detonators, SAW's, BMG, etc.

the most powerful guns will be used and abused and people, like yourself, will complain about them. welcome to pvp balancing.

OvAeons
06-10-2013, 01:55 PM
i love them in PvE but if they are nerf'd in PvE as well as PvP they will become useless

born2beagator
06-10-2013, 01:55 PM
Yeah everyone just get better!

Just use the gun that auto aims and homes in on the target just like everyone else!

Problem solved!

lol at ****ing stupid jerk offs saying "just get better" der der der! Yeah get better at using the Auto Aim Bot Gun lmfao.

You don't grasp the concept that its not about getting better as much as it is everyone using one ****ing gun. It takes away from the over all experience that is Defiance PvP because one gun out does all the other guns and because of that everyone uses it, and because of everyone using the same exact thing it makes for super repetitive matches. Defiance PvP has a lot more to offer then what is being seen but doesint get the chance because of this crap.

And for ppl saying "get better" or QQ...you are the ones who should get better and quit QQ'ing at the fact that ppl are pointing out the obvious sore thumb known as Infectors which has basically made PvP utterly lame and boring. Ppl point these things out because they want game play with a better over all spread of things other then just a couple. And if you cant recognizes this simple concept then you ppl are everything that's wrong with Defiance.
You know, I really could care less about PvP. Defiance PvP is a side note to the PvE. The problem is this side note is hurting our experience in PvE because they can't balance the two separately and whiners such as yourself scream until you get weapons nerfed.

Honestly I'd prefer PvP just be taken out of the game or figure out a way to have balances affect only PvP and not PvE.

Nefarious
06-10-2013, 01:57 PM
Now couldn't the same thing be said to the PvE players. Shouldn't they get better at the game that scales in enemy difficulty based on the number of players. Infectors still work fine for PvE just now you need to get a little closer to the enemies.

NOPE! Cant have that!

Get better at PvP. Its fine and dandy that everyone uses the same thing! Makes for awesome gameplay and epic battles!

:rolleyes: <====(this and....

.....this)====>:D

Nefarious
06-10-2013, 01:58 PM
You know, I really could care less about PvP. Defiance PvP is a side note to the PvE. The problem is this side note is ruining our experience in PvE because they can't balance the two separately and whiners such as yourself scream until you get weapons nerfed.

I have to scream because you ppl are so dense!

If I could I would shake you like infants!

born2beagator
06-10-2013, 02:00 PM
I have to scream because you ppl are so dense!

If I could I would shake you like infants!

Nope, you have to scream because you hope if you make yourselves enough of a nuisance to the Trion people running this board, they will give you want you want. Now lets say your temper tantrums get infectors nerfed. Well then some other weapon will take its place and you will move on to whining about that one after you get downed a few times by it. Its a vicious cycle with PvP balancing, and like I siad, the problem here is the balances effect the co-op game. Which should not happen.

Nefarious
06-10-2013, 02:02 PM
Nope, you have to scream because you hope if you make yourselves enough of a nuisance to the Trion people running this board, they will give you want you want. Now lets say your temper tantrums get infectors nerfed. Well then some other weapon will take its place and you will move on to whining about that one after you get downed a few times by it. Its a vicious cycle with PvP balancing, and like I siad, the problem here is the balances effect the co-op game. Which should not happen.

.....Nope.

KrypAl
06-10-2013, 02:03 PM
I am going to go totally against this one...

Infectors need Increased damage to make up for them being so underpowered in pve

PvP is a minor part of this game.....balance for the majorities not the loudest.

Please don't go down the road that has killed so many MMOs before and nerf PVE for PvP when it is such a small part of the game.

born2beagator
06-10-2013, 02:05 PM
.....Nope.

Yep. Its painfully obvious to those of us who could care less about PvP balancing, or PvP in general, that threads like these use as much over the top whining and sensational posting as possible to try and get attention.

The easy fix here is to make the PvP balancing a separate entity. That way you guys can have your tantrums and get your "balances" in PvP, and it won't hurt the PvE part of the game.

fang1192
06-10-2013, 02:05 PM
GOOD! I hope they never do. They nerfed infectors hardcore with the first patch. They went from novelty toys, to bieng useless crap in pve(which 80% of this game is, co-op and pve) just to please the 20% pvp whiners and thier 3 whole crummy maps. This game is not a pvp gam in its whole. Why do they keep nerfing and ruining the game for this sub-par pvp effort? .....because you all wont stop whining everytime someone keeps putting you down in pvp and just find a build to combat the infectors/shottys/cloak. Really. If they keep nerfing, there will always be a new most powerfull weapon, and next youll want that nerfed when ppl put you down with that. And the nerfs will continue untill the whole game is a balanced plate of shyt with no diversity. This just might not be the game for you, if your only into endgame pvp. Because the pvp in this game is by no means endgame, and not worth ruining 80% of the game for. Everytime you cry nerf, your putting another nail in the coffin friends. Hope your all having fun now while you still can.

If trion ever gets smart they will make seperate stats for pvp and pve. Its the only way they will save one from crippling the other.....because honestly, in pve infectors were useless on day 1. Then they hard up nerfed them....now you want another nerf?! . . . And only because of 1 infector to top it off. The anti sniper immunizer. The other infectors are sub par in pvp as it is.

God youre an idiot. I dont even know where to start.

First of all, Infectors can still tear up PvE. I know this because I do it with regularity. They were barely touched. Next, Just find a build to combat cloak, shotgun, infector - yes let me counter a person that is completely invisible and doesnt even have to aim. As a matter of fact, i do kill cloak,shotty, infector users. Doesnt mean the game is balanced; I can still want balance changes. You tell us to adapt but you can barely adapt against predictable AI. PvP'ers want a new meta that actually requires their opponents to have some semblance of skill. Will there be dominant weapons? Well, yeah. The dominant weapon shouldnt obsolete all other weapons though. I like how you assume that balance = same. That is a stupid assumption. Balanced means all options are viable and each weapon has its niche. Between the maps, draw distance, gameplay mechanics, and weapon features - infectors dominate. Anyone not using an infector is experimenting and/or stubborn.

PAGATTACK
06-10-2013, 02:06 PM
Its a game so if you are crying lets do this no shotguns no infectors for pvp see there done not hard. This game is not a pvp based game and on top of that the pvp is not very good. If you want to have fun then play and stop all the whining. They need to worry about the timeouts and all the other bugs rather than all this "oh this is to powerful, that is too good for pvp" stuff and yes i am venting cause i enjoy this game and tired of listening to all the bs like these posts fix the game then you can worry about the guns and stuff 2 years from now when no one will be playing this anymore!

Wow i feel better now hahaha
i know this wont make the babies stop crying about infectors or shotguns but it feels better

born2beagator
06-10-2013, 02:07 PM
I am going to go totally against this one...

Infectors need Increased damage to make up for them being so underpowered in pve

PvP is a minor part of this game.....balance for the majorities not the loudest.

Please don't go down the road that has killed so many MMOs before and nerf PVE for PvP when it is such a small part of the game.

this deserves a QFT. Although I disagree they are underpowered in PvE, they definitely don't need a nerf in PvE.

Valentine
06-10-2013, 02:08 PM
I've done ok with a VBI Armada and a VOT Pulsar =p

I just think infectors are cheap so I don't use them.

And a +3 burst heavy carbine kills people in two shots ifya hit them all xD

born2beagator
06-10-2013, 02:10 PM
PvP'ers want a new meta that actually requires their opponents to have some semblance of skill. .
The problem is this game is first and FOREMOST a co-op. I'll say it again, make balancing for PvP a separate entity and leave our weapons in PvE alone.

Reverend Blood
06-10-2013, 02:10 PM
Next we'll jump on our magical unicorns and ride to the land where nobody loses in PvP, ever.

http://i.imgur.com/XHTUIQQ.png

Shogo_Yahagi
06-10-2013, 02:11 PM
The really sad thing is that Trion is still listening to the PvP players when it is abundantly clear that they are ruining the PvE game trying to satisfy a bunch of whiny little children who are never going to be satisfied until none of the weapons are worth using.

born2beagator
06-10-2013, 02:11 PM
The really sad thing is that Trion is still listening to the PvP players when it is abundantly clear that they are ruining the PvE game trying to satisfy a bunch of whiny little children who are never going to be satisfied until none of the weapons are worth using.
Thats the problem with PvP. There will always be the criers as long as there is a weapon that is more powerful than the others.

From the little PvP, and thats like 3 matches, that I have played, cloak is far more OP than infectors anyways. That will be next on the tantrum list if they can get infectors nerfed

Nefarious
06-10-2013, 02:18 PM
The really sad thing is that Trion is still listening to the PvP players when it is abundantly clear that they are ruining the PvE game trying to satisfy a bunch of whiny little children who are never going to be satisfied until none of the weapons are worth using.

LOL!

One gun ruins PvP in that its outclassing and over shadowing all others making them obsolete...and in turn is something that really hinders PvP. Its a problem. A gun that Auto Aims which everyone uses the chance they get.

That same ONE gun gets nerfed and for some reason all of PvE falls apart....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37OWL7AzvHo

Gravi7y
06-10-2013, 02:19 PM
The best players are gonna know what the best guns are. No-one is using the nano fragger for the sake of variety. You are not being killed repeatedly by bad players. Its the same in every competitive versus game i have ever played, everybody uses the most popular gun.

What you people don't seem to get is that, in pvp games, its all about the map. If you haven't noticed, on observatory, shotguns and detonators do better than infectors due to the choke points and close quarters. If you want to see weapon variety you need map variety. Unfortunately there are only three maps and two of em are long range.

KrypAl
06-10-2013, 02:21 PM
LOL!

One gun ruins PvP in that its outclassing and over shadowing all others making them obsolete...and in turn is something that really hiders PvP. Its a problem. A gun that Auto Aims which everyone uses the chance they get.

That same ONE gun gets nerfed and for some reason all of PvE falls apart....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37OWL7AzvHo

The problem being is that there will always be "one" gun in PvP and there always will in the eyes of some people

Reverend Blood
06-10-2013, 02:24 PM
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh156/inferno129/crying-waterfall.gif

Jaydogg
06-10-2013, 02:24 PM
The really sad thing is that Trion is still listening to the PvP players when it is abundantly clear that they are ruining the PvE game trying to satisfy a bunch of whiny little children who are never going to be satisfied until none of the weapons are worth using.

I agree, just because 20 kids get owned by a gun and cry about it on the forums trion will nerf it and make the game less enjoyable for the THOUSANDS who bought this game to have fun in pve. how about they take a step in the RIGHT direction and get rid of cloak so 95% of my pvp deaths aren't WTF moments!

Nefarious
06-10-2013, 02:25 PM
The problem being is that there will always be "one" gun in PvP and there always will in the eyes of some people

I rather have everyone run around with SAWS then have what the Infector is doing now.

Rather have a lesser of 2 evils.

Better to have ppl actually aiming and taking cover then this bunny hoping and strafing crap we get with the infector.

fang1192
06-10-2013, 02:26 PM
The problem being is that there will always be "one" gun in PvP and there always will in the eyes of some people

Not if the game is balanced well. Yes, there will be a popular and easy to use effective gun. That's a given. However, that gun should not blatantly outclass all the others. That's what we're asking.

In Black Ops 2, I used the M27. Not the most optimal gun, but i never felt hugely disadvantaged using it. In ME3, i could use almost any set up and post decent numbers comparatively or played a tangible support role.

Reverend Blood
06-10-2013, 02:26 PM
I rather have everyone run around with SAWS then have what the Infector is doing now.

Rather have a lesser of 2 evils.

Better to have ppl actually aiming and taking cover then this bunny hoping and strafing crap we get with the infector.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9Rq59x8M5og/T4sCDrlgXxI/AAAAAAAAA80/sdiYedMaEsM/s1600/dawson-crying.gif

Nefarious
06-10-2013, 02:27 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9Rq59x8M5og/T4sCDrlgXxI/AAAAAAAAA80/sdiYedMaEsM/s1600/dawson-crying.gif

Oooh noooes...you are soo good at trolling lol.

fang1192
06-10-2013, 02:28 PM
Next we'll jump on our magical unicorns and ride to the land where nobody loses in PvP, ever.

It doesnt even matter if you lose. Reward is the same. I just want the game to be competitive for the sake of being competitive.

Reverend Blood
06-10-2013, 02:29 PM
Oooh noooes...you are soo good at trolling lol.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lttcrjiCyD1qht847.gif

YoungBossBoi
06-10-2013, 02:30 PM
sell your game ok u not good at shooter game lol lol maybe u ****ty at this game

Nefarious
06-10-2013, 02:30 PM
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lttcrjiCyD1qht847.gif

Eeeekk more gif images! Nooooo

*click/saved*"

I like that one.

Nefarious
06-10-2013, 02:34 PM
sell yo game ok u no good at shooter game lol lol mabey u ****ty at dis game

fixed to make it mo' ignant!

SweetMadness
06-10-2013, 02:35 PM
And when they do, everyone wil swap to Detonators, and PvPers will turn around and complain about those.

Dave Blackwell
06-10-2013, 02:36 PM
Your score and stats in PvP don't even have anything worthwhile to them, therefore they mean nothing. PvP side changes only or no changes at all. A few others have stated before me this game is not centered around PvP. Its main focus is on PvE. You want a good PvP experience? Go play a game which actually focuses its attention on that aspect. Otherwise, please continue to cry about something that doesn't even matter considering your scores, K/DR etc. on PvP don't even mean anything.

I've got an idea, why don't we all just take out all the weapons from PvP and replace them with pillows.

Reverend Blood
06-10-2013, 02:38 PM
fixed to make it mo' ignant!

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/jackhunter07/Reaction%20pics/CryingPeterParker.gif

Gravi7y
06-10-2013, 02:40 PM
I remember all the work i put in to level pump shotguns to 20, my finger still hurts from the millions of trigger pulls. Now when someone with a pump tries to kill me in pvp its like a joke, i just turn and sawed off their face off while they reload. It sucks to have several days of playing turned worthless. Of course now I have almost all of the weapons maxed so i'm ready to switch to BMG's, Detonators, SMG's or whatever's next.

Somebody should nerf the complaining on this forum, It's clearly too overpowered and it's ruining the game.

Shogo_Yahagi
06-10-2013, 02:43 PM
One gun ruins PvP in that its outclassing and over shadowing all others making them obsolete...and in turn is something that really hinders PvP. Its a problem. A gun that Auto Aims which everyone uses the chance they get.

That same ONE gun gets nerfed and for some reason all of PvE falls apart....

Just one gun? So far they've nerfed:

All the rocket launchers.
All the rocket launcher capacity mags and bonuses.
All the detonator capacity bonuses.
Sawed-off shotguns.
Then all the shotguns!
...and don't forget all the shotgun mags!
...and all the shotgun capacity bonuses! Don't forget them! Someone might still want to use one!
All the infectors.
Now nerf them again because PvPers are still so sad!

...and that's off the top of my head without going to look at the patch notes.

Hiero Glyph
06-10-2013, 02:46 PM
Its a vicious cycle with PvP balancing, and like I siad, the problem here is the balances effect the co-op game. Which should not happen.

If this was really your argument then shedding the infection would be the only factor. On PvP you could actively remove the infection while mobs would not. I agree that the weapon is easy mode, especially with the right mod, but there are ways to balance weapons without hurting them in PvE. Balance is still the most important thing in this case.

Valentine
06-10-2013, 02:47 PM
Time to use pistols!

Shogo_Yahagi
06-10-2013, 02:52 PM
Time to use pistols!

Oh, right. I forgot about the nerf to flare pistols...

Sdric
06-10-2013, 02:54 PM
Was was looking for an infector nerf.

But I can't see it.


http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/1083392620618095115/A51C455A042E091A6D8BE7DEFA14DC1F4B3CA603/1024x576.resizedimage

Hiero Glyph
06-10-2013, 02:54 PM
Oh, right. I forgot about the nerf to flare pistols...

A 50% damage reduction is not a nerf, it's a neutering.

Reverend Blood
06-10-2013, 02:55 PM
Was was looking for an infector nerf.

But I can't see it.


http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/1083392620618095115/A51C455A042E091A6D8BE7DEFA14DC1F4B3CA603/1024x576.resizedimage

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmnebtG3321qfolv1o1_r1_500.gif

Barrik
06-10-2013, 02:57 PM
one group of people that enjoy the infectors against all the others that hate them because they ruin the pvp match, stats add up in your favour.... honestly

Sorry bud but you have no hard numbers (i.e. facts) to back up what you are saying. There are ways to avoid infectors. Learn new skillz to combat the infectors.

Sdric
06-10-2013, 03:11 PM
Sorry bud but you have no hard numbers (i.e. facts) to back up what you are saying. There are ways to avoid infectors. Learn new skillz to combat the infectors.

The only way to avoid infectors consists in not logging into PvP.

You can't shot back when you're shot at (picture 3 posts above).
You can't beat 'em at range due to them not having any damage fall off.
(48~52 range infector: full dot damage &600++ damage burst vs. ~60 bullet damage of an FRC Rifle with a crosshair so big that can't hit **** at that range).
If anybody near you gets hit you the bugs also attack you and for some weird reason Trion gave em several hundread HP.


Don't get me wrong.
I don't mind fighting Infector vs. Infector.
My legendary Immunizer has 1.10 & 1.03 fire-rate combined.
I often take out my enemies 3v1 in Shadow Wars.

However, it fun for about 2 weeks.
PvP got incredibly boring.
Even though I manage to get top scores with my AR it's a pain to fight infectors.
Those weapons are so freaking unfair.

You can't beat infectors, you can only try to outsmarten the player using it.

greatdividers
06-10-2013, 03:13 PM
You can't shot back when you're shot at (picture 3 posts above).
You can't beat 'em at range due to them not having any damage fall off.
(48~52 range infector: full dot damage &600++ damage burst vs. ~60 bullet damage of an FRC Rifle with a crosshair so big that can't hit **** at that range).
If anybody near you gets hit you the bugs also attack you and for some weird reason Trion gave em several hundread HP.


your exaggerations and outright lies are cute

duction
06-10-2013, 03:19 PM
Sorry bud but you have no hard numbers (i.e. facts) to back up what you are saying. There are ways to avoid infectors. Learn new skillz to combat the infectors.

Ok then, name a few of these leet skills I am missing, where is the anti auto aim ego power? Or the roll to shake off the bugs ego power? Maybe I should activate the i can't see anything ego power.


Your post is moot I'm afraid. How about you un nerf shotguns so we can kill the infector user before the stupidly over power'd attack on us finishes us off.

They should get rid of the auto aim and let us roll the bugs off etc

Hiero Glyph
06-10-2013, 03:21 PM
your exaggerations and outright lies are cute

A player affected by Bio takes a 50% damage reduction and loses mobility. Infectors are only affected by the projectile damage, not the infection or bug damage. This means the player goes from 4-5 damage to 2 but the infection and bug damage are not affected. This is just a single example of how infectors are not properly balanced. The fact that the bugs will seek out players in cloak is another. Also, the full-auto Immunizer has been around for two months, Trion has done nothing to fix this glitch. Also, you cannot shed an infection, only reduce the duration by rolling. It takes 4+ rolls to remove one versus 1-3 for nano effects. Again, hardly balanced. Auto-aim is a bit too good as you can hip fire them and maintain mobility. If you really think Infectors are balanced you must be playing a different game.

EDIT: Forgot to mention you can stack 3 infections per target, no other nano effect allows this.

Dave Blackwell
06-10-2013, 03:22 PM
I wonder what the next supposed 'OP' weapon is going to be after infectors eventually get nerfed due to crying over nonsense..

Sorry.. what?

greatdividers
06-10-2013, 03:23 PM
I wonder what the next supposed 'OP' weapon is going to be after infectors eventually get nerfed due to crying over nonsense..

Sorry.. what?

detonators, courier, SAW, the single shot AR w/ burst mod (can't remember the name). those are my predictions

greatdividers
06-10-2013, 03:25 PM
If you really think Infectors are balanced you must be playing a different game.

did i say they were balanced?

Hiero Glyph
06-10-2013, 03:27 PM
detonators, courier, SAW, the single shot AR w/ burst mod (can't remember the name). those are my predictions

Blast shield helps for explosions, although a full team using them is a big excessive. The SAW is not great at close range (spray'n'pray FTW?). The Heavy Assault Carbine with a controlled burst mod is nothing compared to a full-auto Immunizer though, at least you have to aim.

tuckerpb
06-10-2013, 03:27 PM
if they nerf infectors for pvp then they need to nerf lmg, smg, and sniper guns to. using them with overcharge makes a super weapon in pvp that has high range and high damage. (lmg + overcharge = incredible stable shooting.)

greatdividers
06-10-2013, 03:29 PM
Blast shield helps for explosions, although a full team using them is a big excessive. The SAW is not great at close range (spray'n'pray FTW?). The Heavy Assault Carbine with a controlled burst mod is nothing compared to a full-auto Immunizer though, at least you have to aim.

do you even read? i'm well aware that infectors are stronger, easier to use, more OP, etc.

i was responding to a post wondering what would be next on the nerf list AFTER infectors.

/facedesk

Hiero Glyph
06-10-2013, 03:29 PM
did i say they were balanced?

You claimed the other poster was lying while most of their comments were accurate. If you don't think they are balanced, why argue against the other poster's substantiated argument?

Dave Blackwell
06-10-2013, 03:32 PM
Do you scrubs not understand how bad infectors are in pvp? now every ******* and their ***** mother is using them, since they are so godly OP.

Are you aware of the blatantly obvious fact that our scores, K/DR etc. do not have anything worthwhile to them and they are in fact pointless? They serve no purpose either, well.. unless you're an overly egostical person.

Why people are losing the head over the PvP aspect for this game is, quite frankly, hilarious due to it having no real purpose other than for a few pursuits. I'm sorry, but it is.

Bear in mind that when changes in PvP occur it also damages the PvE side of the game. I would also like to remind those PvP'ers who seem to be completely oblivious to it; this game is not focused on PvP, its main focus is on PvE. A majority of the base game is PvE.. honestly? PvP in this is more or less a novelty, other than that it's just an anchor to the overall game - in my opinion.

Hiero Glyph
06-10-2013, 03:32 PM
do you even read? i'm well aware that infectors are stronger, easier to use, more OP, etc.

i was responding to a post wondering what would be next on the nerf list AFTER infectors.

/facedesk

And I'm merely pointing out how all of these are relatively balanced compared to Infectors currently. While gamers will always complain, there is a huge difference between having a justified complaint and complaining because they lost.

Hiero Glyph
06-10-2013, 03:34 PM
Are you aware of the blatantly obvious fact that our scores, K/DR etc. do not have anything worthwhile to them and they are in fact pointless? They serve no purpose either, well.. unless you're an overly egostical person.

Why people are losing the head over the PvP aspect for this game is, quite frankly, hilarious due to it having no real purpose other than for a few pursuits. I'm sorry, but it is.

Bear in mind that when changes in PvP occur it also damages the PvE side of the game. I would also like to remind those PvP'ers who seem to be completely oblivious to it; this game is not focused on PvP, its main focus is on PvE. A majority of the base game is PvE.. honestly? PvP in this is more or less a novelty, other than that it's just an anchor to the overall game - in my opinion.

For the record, PvP is the only end-game currently.

duction
06-10-2013, 03:37 PM
I don't understand, you mean no one should play pvp because this game should be pve only?

IAMVILELENT
06-10-2013, 03:37 PM
if they nerf infectors for pvp then they need to nerf lmg, smg, and sniper guns to. using them with overcharge makes a super weapon in pvp that has high range and high damage. (lmg + overcharge = incredible stable shooting.)

The SAW still blooms like crazy with overcharge, so the screen not shaking when you fire doesn't mean sh*t really, not sure if this is a bug or intentional, so really you still have to aim and burst fire the damn thing during OC. It's my biggest gripe with it atm.

vicious
06-10-2013, 03:40 PM
I got a better Idea. How about you PvP whiners simply GET BETTER, and STOP ruining the game for those of us who enjoy the PvE more

too true u can kill people with any gun i promise u as soon as they nerf that youll be complaining about the sword or my fragger or my heavy assault carbine just PLAY THE GAME

Envy
06-10-2013, 03:45 PM
I just want to know if i'm wasting time on this game or just uninstalling... infector pvp is 100 percent game ruining.

Littleweasel
06-10-2013, 03:48 PM
they do not need to be nerfed no need to rune the pve even further with more nerfing of weapons they need to be removed from the pvp completely!

sickchaos
06-10-2013, 04:17 PM
Well put...hell even I feel better...

Dooks
06-10-2013, 05:02 PM
Two things

1) Get better

2) QQ less

Just Trolling, I don't PvP cause I suck at it regardless of gun, but if I use an infector maybe I could be god.....maybe I'll try PvP again......oh oh, turn around on that subject :P

Youkai Risu
06-10-2013, 05:18 PM
Complaints over something so trival...please stop ruining the game with these dumb suggestions.

AmnesiaHaze
06-10-2013, 05:21 PM
invisibility needs to be nerfed by adding thermal vision as 5th ego perk

BrassRazoo
06-10-2013, 05:23 PM
Too many kids would cry that they were lonely without their toy bug guns.

AmnesiaHaze
06-10-2013, 05:29 PM
Too many kids would cry that they were lonely without their toy bug guns.

we all need to start (ab)using infectors even if we dont like to use it , like that it will get nerfed :D

Shada Mori
06-10-2013, 05:29 PM
Nerfs do not fix ANYTHING. EVER. So stop asking for them. The problem isn't that infectors are zomg super OP its that all the other guns are out of balance making them seem stronger.. I know this because just a month ago shotguns were the flavor of the month until they broke them cause people like the OP whined. The issue isn't to nerf the infector, its to make a balance pass on the rest of the weapons in the game before anything else ends up as broken as shotguns are now.

That said, one things to keep in mind about infectors... you can kill the bugs. Yes seriously. Roll backward and drop a instant det grenade, or use a gun with a spray like a shotgun on VOT LMG.. the bugs can be killed and that cuts a large percent of the damage the gun can do to you. Of course while you are killing the bugs, you aren't killing the one firing at you.

Saravind
06-10-2013, 05:36 PM
infector doesnt need nerfed u can actually dodge the damn needles..... they are the slowest velocity guns in the damn game u roll at the right time all the damn needles miss

i have feeling all those who complain are running not a single defense perk.... one of those perks makes the infector very trivial also so if you nerf the infector and you have that perk on u could probably go eat dinner before you die....

BrassRazoo
06-10-2013, 05:46 PM
That said, one things to keep in mind about infectors... you can kill the bugs. Yes seriously. Roll backward and drop a instant det grenade, or use a gun with a spray like a shotgun on VOT LMG.. the bugs can be killed and that cuts a large percent of the damage the gun can do to you. Of course while you are killing the bugs, you aren't killing the one firing at you.

That may be the case but it is still the fact that you are doing this that leaves you an open target, either by the bugs original source or one of their teammates.
You are so distracted at times, either rolling to get rid of an infection or shooting the bugs you are not aware of other things occurring.
It doesn't really bother me that much anymore unless like half the team is using them then it can be a little bit silly.
I seem to do ok with my set up now, it was not my original set up but I basically had to go back to using cloak to hide from bug boys.

Lupis Volk
06-10-2013, 05:55 PM
c'mon trion sort this out, they need a tweak for pvp

NO! "tweaking" them would ruin them in PvE.

BrassRazoo
06-10-2013, 05:58 PM
NO! "tweaking" them would ruin them in PvE.

That seems to be the problem with every weapon.
I would hate to be they one deciding on balancing weapons in this game, when all weapons can be used in vastly different environments.

OhNos
06-10-2013, 05:58 PM
Simple nerf would be decreased accuracy, so bunnyhopping while shooting targed at long range would not be possible anymore.

Just nerfing it's damage will make them useless in PVE.

BEINGSTUPID735
06-10-2013, 06:04 PM
I guess Trion has a big decision to make, It's Nerf or Nothing! Has that joke been on here yet? Anyway I do not think that the infectors are over powered at all, the burst mod thing does get annoying but all you have to do is run in the opposite direction of the teamates that you are working with and get around the side of him, the more targets the enemy is trying to fight off the less amount they can do to an individual. I use overcharge,BMG, and an AR, I don't always come in first but when I do I prefer Dos of Keys. Experiment with perks also switch them one by one if one is not working well switch it out, I love using escape artist but displacement field just seemed like a waste. Has anyone tried feedback? Someone had mentioned using defense perks so to them I ask (or anyone with a constructive answer) which is better, Cellular Armor or Fortitude?

divaldo
06-10-2013, 06:05 PM
Yeah everyone just get better!

Just use the gun that auto aims and homes in on the target just like everyone else!

Problem solved!



lol at ****ing stupid jerk offs saying "just get better" der der der! Yeah get better at using the Auto Aim Bot Gun lmfao.

You don't grasp the concept that its not about getting better as much as it is everyone using one ****ing gun. It takes away from the over all experience that is Defiance PvP because one gun out does all the other guns and because of that everyone uses it, and because of everyone using the same exact thing it makes for super repetitive matches. Defiance PvP has a lot more to offer then what is being seen but doesint get the chance because of this crap.

And for ppl saying "get better" or QQ...you are the ones who should get better and quit QQ'ing at the fact that ppl are pointing out the obvious sore thumb known as Infectors which has basically made PvP utterly lame and boring. Ppl point these things out because they want game play with a better over all spread of things other then just a couple. And if you cant recognizes this simple concept then you ppl are everything that's wrong with Defiance.

Defiance is not just a pvp you fool why don't you whiners do us all a favor and leave

KillAlot V2
06-10-2013, 06:05 PM
yes lets nerf the infectors again because people use them on freight yard or hows about you just stop complaining if you cant beat them join them or use something to counter do you really want another useless rpg or shotgun i for one dont pvp sucks you need to look at the big picture here when they nerf guns and make them useless it breaks them in the pve and co op element of the game which is 97% of the game and i for one do not want that i have about 12 useless nerfd shottys 6 rpgs and 3 nerfd smgs all orange so why is it fair my guns get broken to keep the small percentage of the coommunity who play 3 maps and cry happy if they nerf infectors people will use smgs they will nerf them again theyle use assault rifles and before long every one will be like butter knifes and only be able to kill by melee the hell out of them with your gun

Lupis Volk
06-10-2013, 06:06 PM
That seems to be the problem with every weapon.
I would hate to be they one deciding on balancing weapons in this game, when all weapons can be used in vastly different environments.

yes. all i can think off is different sets of stats for PvE and PvP. apart from that i've got nothing.

Hiero Glyph
06-10-2013, 06:36 PM
NO! "tweaking" them would ruin them in PvE.

Ugh, no it wouldn't. The problem with Infectors is that they are near impossible to shed the infection. Rolling only reduces the duration but requires multiple rolls in order to remove entirely; at least way more than compared to a nano effect. As PvE mobs do not roll often, you can create an environment that is balanced for PvP and still effective for PvE. To claim that balancing Infectors would ruin PvE just shows how shortsighted your concept of balance is, nothing more.

Trion can certainly balance weapons but I fear they share your shortsightedness and simply rely on weapon damage as the balancing factor. There are far better options for balance such as falloff damage, critical damage multipliers, recoil and recoil recovery, etc. As I noted previously, the shotgun nerf should have involved falloff damage, not total damage, with slug versions being the exception. Trion's shortsighted response was obvious.

Lupis Volk
06-10-2013, 06:41 PM
Ugh, no it wouldn't. The problem with Infectors is that they are near impossible to shed the infection. Rolling only reduces the duration but requires multiple rolls in order to remove entirely; at least way more than compared to a nano effect. As PvE mobs do not roll often, you can create an environment that is balanced for PvP and still effective for PvE. To claim that balancing Infectors would ruin PvE just shows how shortsighted your concept of balance is, nothing more.

Trion can certainly balance weapons but I fear they share your shortsightedness and simply rely on weapon damage as the balancing factor. There are far better options for balance such as falloff damage, critical damage multipliers, recoil and recoil recovery, etc. As I noted previously, the shotgun nerf should have involved falloff damage, not total damage, with slug versions being the exception. Trion's shortsighted response was obvious.

hmm look at the pleather of nerfs Trion has done. they've killed sawnoffs unless you use the cloak combo. Nerfing is the laziest way to fix weapons. once the infectors are killed the PvPers will attack another gun, BMG, AR's, SMG's or LMG's? where will this nerfing cry stop?

Hiero Glyph
06-10-2013, 06:55 PM
hmm look at the pleather of nerfs Trion has done. they've killed sawnoffs unless you use the cloak combo. Nerfing is the laziest way to fix weapons. once the infectors are killed the PvPers will attack another gun, BMG, AR's, SMG's or LMG's? where will this nerfing cry stop?

I completely agree that the manner in which Trion is 'balancing' weapons in incorrect. The does not mean that it is impossible to balance a weapon for both PvE and PvP. The only thing preventing a weapon from being balanced in both formats is Trion. The sad truth is that they can make sawed-offs effective in both but they do not want to invest the time in order to redo the weapon's mechanics. To be fair, Cloak and Shadowed Strike are the biggest culprits and neither has been balanced yet.

Lupis Volk
06-10-2013, 06:57 PM
I completely agree that the manner in which Trion is 'balancing' weapons in incorrect. The does not mean that it is impossible to balance a weapon for both PvE and PvP. The only thing preventing a weapon from being balanced in both formats is Trion. The sad truth is that they can make sawed-offs effective in both but they do not want to invest the time in order to redo the weapon's mechanics. To be fair, Cloak and Shadowed Strike are the biggest culprits and neither has been balanced yet.

okay found common ground good. yes i use shadow strike on my sniper class.

Hiero Glyph
06-10-2013, 07:03 PM
okay found common ground good. yes i use shadow strike on my sniper class.

Yeah, if Trion gave Cloak a distorted effect when moving and a slightly more dramatic effect when running, it would completely balance Cloak and make Shadowed Strike ideal for snipers or ambush tactics. Given that the Dark Matter Snipers already have such an effect, I don't think it would be unreasonable to manage this. Heck, Trion could even permit moving while crouched to allow you to remain entirely invisible. Again, it can be balanced if Trion wants to take the time to do it.

Lupis Volk
06-10-2013, 07:04 PM
Yeah, if Trion gave Cloak a distorted effect when moving and a slightly more dramatic effect when running, it would completely balance Cloak and make Shadowed Strike ideal for snipers or ambush tactics. Given that the Dark Matter Snipers already have such an effect, I don't think it would be unreasonable to manage this. Heck, Trion could even permit moving while crouched to allow you to remain entirely invisible. Again, it can be balanced if Trion wants to take the time to do it.

yes give the cloak a give away. i've seen this in most Sci-fi FPS and TPS.

hagndaz
06-10-2013, 07:14 PM
how about you take the time you wasted posting this and get better at pvp. seriously! theyre not hard to stop. adjust your perks and loadouts. just because you like it, doesnt mean its optimal. wait until we get the new weapons. day one people will flood the forums yelling NERF! and wish they had their emasculated infectors and shotguns back. Learn to play!

Gratty
06-10-2013, 07:16 PM
how about you take the time you wasted posting this and get better at pvp. seriously! theyre not hard to stop. adjust your perks and loadouts. just because you like it, doesnt mean its optimal. wait until we get the new weapons. day one people will flood the forums yelling NERF! and wish they had their emasculated infectors and shotguns back. Learn to play!

lern2debaytebro

Lupis Volk
06-10-2013, 07:17 PM
how about you take the time you wasted posting this and get better at pvp. seriously! theyre not hard to stop. adjust your perks and loadouts. just because you like it, doesnt mean its optimal. wait until we get the new weapons. day one people will flood the forums yelling NERF! and wish they had their emasculated infectors and shotguns back. Learn to play!

But adapting is soooo over rated. look at the Dinos they din't adapt to the meteor.

Hiero Glyph
06-10-2013, 07:21 PM
how about you take the time you wasted posting this and get better at pvp. seriously! theyre not hard to stop. adjust your perks and loadouts. just because you like it, doesnt mean its optimal. wait until we get the new weapons. day one people will flood the forums yelling NERF! and wish they had their emasculated infectors and shotguns back. Learn to play!

It's obvious that you did not read this thread. I made a point of noting exactly how Infectors are broken. Learn to play does nothing when facing an opponent of equal skill. The appropriately modded Infector is a huge advantage, particularly with a homing range of 48+.

hagndaz
06-10-2013, 07:23 PM
lern2debaytebro

the debate is the vocal minority(yes minority, the same people post in all the nerf whatever threads) take perfectly good pve weapons and make them worthless. there will not be pve/pvp differentiation between weapons. unless you want pvp to be marshmallow guns and tickle fights, its time to move on and get better.

Lupis Volk
06-10-2013, 07:24 PM
the debate is the vocal minority(yes minority, the same people post in all the nerf whatever threads) take perfectly good pve weapons and make them worthless. there will not be pve/pvp differentiation between weapons. unless you want pvp to be marshmallow guns and tickle fights, its time to move on and get better.

Agreed. my shotguns don't have enough ammo to be of any use.

hagndaz
06-10-2013, 07:26 PM
It's obvious that you did not read this thread. I made a point of noting exactly how Infectors are broken. Learn to play does nothing when facing an opponent of equal skill. The appropriately modded Infector is a huge advantage, particularly with a homing range of 48+.

im guessing that you have no ARs, LMGs, or SMGs. rattling off a few critical hits with a high rate of fire gun will easily kill someone further than 48+. also get a bio-resist shield. its the only nano effect you should be concerned about in pvp.

Lupis Volk
06-10-2013, 07:29 PM
im guessing that you have no ARs, LMGs, or SMGs. rattling off a few critical hits with a high rate of fire gun will easily kill someone further than 48+. also get a bio-resist shield. its the only nano effect you should be concerned about in pvp.

what about fire or siphon?

hagndaz
06-10-2013, 07:32 PM
fire dissipates with a double roll, and siphon still does a hefty amount of damage even with the resistance.

Hiero Glyph
06-10-2013, 07:33 PM
im guessing that you have no ARs, LMGs, or SMGs. rattling off a few critical hits with a high rate of fire gun will easily kill someone further than 48+. also get a bio-resist shield. its the only nano effect you should be concerned about in pvp.

All my weapons are 20 and I can tell you that none compare to a full-auto Immunizer. The SMG suffers from falloff damage and only the sub-carbine is moderately effective at longer ranges. For LMGs the SAW is literally hit or miss and even Overcharge only affects the recoil, not the ramped spread; burst fire is required to control it at range. ARs are probably the strongest contender but require ADS to manage which limits mobility. An Infector can be fired while moving and jumping with no handicap. And let's not forget that the Bio nano effect you are so worried about has little-to-no effect against Infectors since it only halves the projectile damage, not the infection or bug damage.

hagndaz
06-10-2013, 07:39 PM
All my weapons are 20 and I can tell you that none compare to a full-auto Immunizer. The SMG suffers from falloff damage and only the sub-carbine is moderately effective at longer ranges. For LMGs the SAW is literally hit or miss and even Overcharge only affects the recoil, not the ramped spread; burst fire is required to control it at range. ARs are probably the strongest contender but require ADS to manage which limits mobility. An Infector can be fired while moving and jumping with no handicap. And let's not forget that the Bio nano effect you are so worried about has little-to-no effect against Infectors since it only halves the projectile damage, not the infection or bug damage.

i do just fine hitting people using infectors with pulsars and rockers hip firing.

Gratty
06-10-2013, 07:54 PM
the debate is the vocal minority(yes minority, the same people post in all the nerf whatever threads) take perfectly good pve weapons and make them worthless. there will not be pve/pvp differentiation between weapons. unless you want pvp to be marshmallow guns and tickle fights, its time to move on and get better.

I never had an issue with shottys. However, I don't see anyone that pick the Immunizer as their weapon of choice in PvE.

SleepyPanda
06-10-2013, 08:35 PM
Please don't nerf infectors. Not everyone plays PvP. Why should we suffer? :(

Fresh Ammo
06-10-2013, 08:39 PM
I have to scream because you ppl are so dense!

If I could I would shake you like infants!
You mad bro?

hagndaz
06-10-2013, 08:41 PM
I never had an issue with shottys. However, I don't see anyone that pick the Immunizer as their weapon of choice in PvE.

Its not my weapon of choice, but i had a lot of fun getting it up to 10 for the pursuit. its an amazing weapon to use on the mother load map, aswell

duction
06-10-2013, 10:55 PM
If you don't play pvp like you are all saying, how do you even have a valid point here? It's beyond me.

Dave Blackwell
06-11-2013, 02:56 AM
If they nerf infectors people will use smgs they will nerf them again they'll use assault rifles and before long everyone will be like butter knifes and only be able to kill by melee the hell out of them with your gun

This is precisely what will happen every single time any weapon is 'nerfed'. Honestly, how those of you who cry 'NERF!!11' don't realise this is shocking. You're aware that by decreasing the effectiveness of one weapon, that this is more than enough to justify reasoning in those who currently used the previous (supposed) 'OP' weapon to move out and look for an equally effective weapon? Guess what that means; it means you idiots are going to be back crying about another weapon.

I thought shotguns were the only 'OP' weapon? Oh wait, they got 'nerfed'.. but wait, how come everyone's using infectors now? Hm.. I do wonder about that.

I would also like to remind you lot again that this game is not centered around PvP its main focus is on PvE, if you want a good PvP experience then go and play a game that actually focuses its attention on that aspect solely. Not to mention our scores in PvP don't matter anyway, so why you ones even care about this is beyond me.

PvP is an anchor in this game which Trion will probably never cut away from, which is rather unfortunate; but it is what it is.

Valnir
06-11-2013, 03:21 AM
Put the shotguns back the way they were than. They are useless in pve now. There all but useless in pvp as well unless you use cloak to get in close. infectors are way worse than shotguns ever were. you don't even have to aim.

BrassRazoo
06-11-2013, 03:32 AM
Just because they "nerf" one gun does not mean another will automatically become OP then require a "nerf" in return.
It is called balancing, adjusting certain aspects of weapons or play.
Certain guns should perform a specific task, optimally, as per their design. Shotguns should hit hardest up close, Snipers should do best from range etc.
When guns do not do this, or there are guns the outperform others in areas they should not, is when there is an issue with balance and it should be addressed.

Aeekto
06-11-2013, 03:38 AM
they donīt need to get nerfed in general, they only need fixes and adjustments.

- a fix for the "immunizer+stain expander"-bug, so that it wont get fully automatic anymore.
- change the crosshair to a "dot" and let the cartridges home (not real homing, only do that animation with that curve) pinpoint accurate to the dot (like a sniper) and not everywhere inside a realy big circle.

everything else is fine about every single infector once these changes/fixes are made.

Myria
06-11-2013, 03:41 AM
Just because they "nerf" one gun does not mean another will automatically become OP then require a "nerf" in return.

Of course it does. Anyone who's played any MMO for any length of time has seen this dance before. For god's sake, this game hasn't even been out three months now and we've already seen entire classes of weapons nerfed into uselessness with a new nerf being called for before the old one is even a day old.


It is called balancing, adjusting certain aspects of weapons or play.

There is no "balancing", unless every weapon is exactly the same there will always be one that is better.


Certain guns should perform a specific task, optimally, as per their design. Shotguns should hit hardest up close, Snipers should do best from range etc.

Shotguns, rockets, and pistols all did exactly that, and all were all screamed about ceaselessly by PvPers and were all nerfed into oblivion.


When guns do not do this, or there are guns the outperform others in areas they should not, is when there is an issue with balance and it should be addressed.

It's that "in areas they should not" inevitably means to PvPers "defeat me".

Jokerzwild
06-11-2013, 03:42 AM
Just because they "nerf" one gun does not mean another will automatically become OP then require a "nerf" in return.
It is called balancing, adjusting certain aspects of weapons or play.
Certain guns should perform a specific task, optimally, as per their design. Shotguns should hit hardest up close, Snipers should do best from range etc.
When guns do not do this, or there are guns the outperform others in areas they should not, is when there is an issue with balance and it should be addressed.

Well said and I'll add that nerfs are funny things they almost never take the form you would like. Like shotguns for instance, everyone called for nerf, mostly because they were too powerful at too great of distance. How was it "fixed" decreased the mag size and overall damage.

Dave Blackwell
06-11-2013, 03:48 AM
Just because they "nerf" one gun does not mean another will automatically become OP then require a "nerf" in return.
It is called balancing, adjusting certain aspects of weapons or play.
Certain guns should perform a specific task, optimally, as per their design. Shotguns should hit hardest up close, Snipers should do best from range etc.
When guns do not do this, or there are guns the outperform others in areas they should not, is when there is an issue with balance and it should be addressed.

I actually agree with you in regards to certain weapons outperforming others in different scenarios and what not. However, 'nerfing' essentially reduces the effectiveness of whichever weapon has it done to it. This then leads to those weapons who have not been touched, yet (it's gonna happen eventually - unfortunately..), being favoured for the time being due to them being more effective than those that have been reduced in their effectiveness.

Honestly, the only way to at least attempt to keep PvP'ers happy (If that's even possible) is by removing perks and ego altogether. That's what makes whether or not a weapon is 'OP' or not. There's no way of determining straight away off the bat what perks the person who killed you was running. Yes, this would take away from the gameplay is a major way, but it would definitely make it a more even field in general. Not that I particularly believe that this should be done, but.. it seems it would reduce the problem a bit and make it somewhat easier to determine whether or not a weapon is truly 'OP.

On the topic of weapons performing better in a certain situation though.. with an infector I can't think of any scenario where it would be given justice in what it offers. Food for thought for Trion I guess, but other than that I got nothing.

Gradius
06-11-2013, 03:56 AM
I haven't read every post in this thread, and if it was mentioned, apologies...

Infectors received a 30% nerf across the board shortly after launch. They aren't amazing weapons, they deal delayed damage, unless a burst fire mod has been applied, but only people smart enough to do this benefit from it.

I would say the damage they do right now is in line with other weapons. However, if there were to be a nerf of some sort incoming, I would recommend that it only be to the targeting reticle. Make the target reticle smaller so that the shots require more skilled aiming, but leave everything else the same. I think this "fix" would solve a lot of people's problems with this weapon.

BrassRazoo
06-11-2013, 03:59 AM
I did say earlier that finding a perfect balance is either very hard, it may not even be achievable, due to the fact that all weapons can be used in vastly different environments.
Honestly I think they are pretty close, if people use the correct perks to counter certain set ups and weapons.
But not everyone wants to use Cloak and Shotgun to hide from the Immunizer users on roofs or whatever works.
I am seeing a lot more variety of weapons being used, especially in the bigger map, Freight Yard.
Perhaps more maps with a variety of design could open up play styles or people are just getting better and learning that Infectors are not always a certain win.

Anyway it still seems a lot of people are really struggling with Infector, especially the Immunizer so I guess in the end something will be done.
I do think they should sort out the issue where a Mod can turn a burst shot weapon into automatic at least.

xHEADHUNTERZx
06-11-2013, 04:33 AM
Crying people are starting to really piss me off
You guys arent bored of complaining..
If you 're tired of getting killed by infectors then use themthats simple
Guys like you are just ruining the game.battlefield was ruined by guys like you so how about you leave and go play a solo game...
....ing comunity of crying babys..

duction
06-11-2013, 04:35 AM
Crying people are starting to really piss me off
You guys arent bored of complaining..
If you 're tired of getting killed by infectors then use themthats simple
Guys like you are just ruining the game.battlefield was ruined by guys like you so how about you leave and go play a solo game...
....ing comunity of crying babys..


Come again?

Weapons have already been nurfed this one needs doing, did someone touch a nerve?

Furon
06-11-2013, 05:50 AM
Biggest problem with the pvp in defiance is built around the cloak skill, using anything except cloak is utterly useless and if anything cloak need to be hit with the nerfbat, i mean it triggers shield reload and actually restealths you between shot's (reapplying shield regen as well as effects feeding off of this like escape artist)

Stealth need to be remade so that its used up after you fire (not if you use it as a escape tool / gap closer and get hit by random damage, then its ok with stealth reapplying itself however it should always cancel out and trigger the cd when used with a gun)

2nd they need to make it so that if you jump then you get a massive bloom (whole screen) for 1.5 seconds after the jump, even auto aim weapons like infectors will hit nothing then and when people dont jump around like ******ed chimps (because they will hit nothing) then suddenly other weapon configs will be alot more viable (and blur will be a much better skill in pvp as well)

If they change that then infectors will become a niche weapon (because a infector stands no chance against a SMG or AR or hell even a LMG in a burst dps race to the face when you cant autohit anymore (while ******o bouncing)

Ferah
06-11-2013, 06:03 AM
Crying people are starting to really piss me off
You guys arent bored of complaining..
If you 're tired of getting killed by infectors then use themthats simple
Guys like you are just ruining the game.battlefield was ruined by guys like you so how about you leave and go play a solo game...
....ing comunity of crying babys..
battlefield was never ruined. maybe they took something u relied on and it was ruined for u, but the game/gameplay never was.

greatdividers
06-11-2013, 06:06 AM
Biggest problem with the pvp in defiance is built around the cloak skill, using anything except cloak is utterly useless

hahaha, that was good.

BrassRazoo
06-11-2013, 06:12 AM
Crying people are starting to really piss me off
You guys arent bored of complaining..
If you 're tired of getting killed by infectors then use themthats simple
Guys like you are just ruining the game.battlefield was ruined by guys like you so how about you leave and go play a solo game...
....ing comunity of crying babys..

How about they just create modes for single weapons then.
Like SWAT in Halo.
We could all just stand on a roof and shoot Immunizers.
Oh and you spelt babies wrong.

Ferah
06-11-2013, 06:15 AM
How about they just create modes for single weapons then.
Like SWAT in Halo.
We could all just stand on a roof and shoot Immunizers.
Oh and you spelt babies wrong.
would make for a boring game. i think half the issue (i know it can be in my case), is the lack of variety in the way you die. 9 times out of 10, infector. i dont believe they would be seen as a huge problem if they werent the only thing people see when they pvp.

Reverend Blood
06-11-2013, 06:38 AM
This thread still going?

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxuvj6mJ951rnq1l6o1_250.gif

BrassRazoo
06-11-2013, 06:49 AM
Thanks for bumping.

Hiero Glyph
06-11-2013, 07:16 AM
If they change that then infectors will become a niche weapon (because a infector stands no chance against a SMG or AR or hell even a LMG in a burst dps race to the face when you cant autohit anymore (while ******o bouncing)

Yeah, Infector are not intended to compete with these weapons. It provides a DoT effect and some crowd control with the bugs, not high direct damage. As a result you should see players use it to DoT and then switch to a true DPS weapon. You don't see players trying to get kills exclusively with Sludge Rockets, Incinerators, or the like so why expect a DoT weapon like the Infector to do everything?

greatdividers
06-11-2013, 07:18 AM
Yeah, Infector are not intended to compete with these weapons.

got a link to a Trion employee saying that? or do you consider the delusions in your head to be facts?


It provides a DoT effect and some crowd control with the bugs, not high direct damage. As a result you should see players use it to DoT and then switch to a true DPS weapon. You don't see players trying to get kills exclusively with Sludge Rockets, Incinerators, or the like so why expect a DoT weapon like the Infector to do everything?

not all infectors are based on DoT damage....

Reverend Blood
06-11-2013, 07:20 AM
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7vsk4jwsB1r4h8q9.gif

PeterPolaski
06-11-2013, 07:24 AM
OP's ideal opposing team:
http://www.mytrifle.co.uk/images/listings/2012-11/special_nerf_wars_party_offer-1354299888-247-e.jpg

Trion plz disarm my oppnents!!!!!! I GET KILLED BYTHEM!!!

Myll_Erik
06-11-2013, 07:26 AM
Howdy

I'm passing this on again - but bear in mind we look at both the community perspective and raw data to help tweak and tune things.

PeterPolaski
06-11-2013, 07:30 AM
Howdy

I'm passing this on again - but bear in mind we look at both the community perspective and raw data to help tweak and tune things.
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lti1q4dtXQ1qm5auy.png

Shogo_Yahagi
06-11-2013, 07:34 AM
Howdy

I'm passing this on again - but bear in mind we look at both the community perspective and raw data to help tweak and tune things.

What, exactly, do you mean by "this"? Are you going to pass on that PvP players are still crying about Infectors, or that PvE players are sick of having our weapons nerfed to pander to them?

The only way to balance two completely different game modes is to have two sets of stats.

Hiero Glyph
06-11-2013, 07:35 AM
got a link to a Trion employee saying that? or do you consider the delusions in your head to be facts?

not all infectors are based on DoT damage....

I can see that inference is challenging for you, so I'll go slow. An Infector is based on 5 stages of infection. Not every Infector includes all 5 stages, however. The primary damage sources for all Infectors is the infection DoT and/or hatched/spawned bug damage. Every Infector has at least one of these three conditions. No Infector deals significant projectile damage.

So, how can Infectors compete with traditional projectile weapons with projectile damage? Answer: they can't; only by relying upon secondary damage effects do they compensate for this. The fact that some Infectors can provide more secondary damage than most weapons can provide from projectiles is what breaks them.

BrassRazoo
06-11-2013, 07:36 AM
I think you should also experience things first hand and this goes for all things.
I assume you do anyway, but just saying.
Community opinion and raw data can only paint so much of a picture.

BrassRazoo
06-11-2013, 07:40 AM
What, exactly, do you mean by "this"? Are you going to pass on that PvP players are still crying about Infectors, or that PvE players are sick of having our weapons nerfed to pander to them?

The only way to balance two completely different game modes is to have two sets of stats.

They already adjust clip sizes in PvP for some weapons if not all, so it seems that they can adjust certain things with weapons separately.
Perhaps having two different stats is not that far fetched.

Chidy1776
06-11-2013, 07:43 AM
c'mon trion sort this out, they need a tweak for pvp

I agree that infectors might be op in pvp. The issue is balancing the pvp side with the normal game. A lot of ppl ask for abilities and weapons working differently in both aspects but im not a huge an of this style of system. I do have faith in trion though as rift pvp was excellent. Ill be interwsted to see where this goes.

greatdividers
06-11-2013, 07:47 AM
I can see that inference is challenging for you, so I'll go slow. An Infector is based on 5 stages of infection. Not every Infector includes all 5 stages, however. The primary damage sources for all Infectors is the infection DoT and/or hatched/spawned bug damage. Every Infector has at least one of these three conditions. No Infector deals significant projectile damage.

i was going to respond directly but there really is no point. i would recommend reading this (http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?56673-Infector-Guide).

Reverend Blood
06-11-2013, 08:00 AM
http://www.themarysue.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/crying-david.gif

PeterPolaski
06-11-2013, 08:03 AM
What, exactly, do you mean by "this"? Are you going to pass on that PvP players are still crying about Infectors, or that PvE players are sick of having our weapons nerfed to pander to them?

The only way to balance two completely different game modes is to have two sets of stats.

By "this" I mean personal preference & actual balance are too different things. OP claims getting killed by infectors ruins his games; while that may be true, is it the gun being OP? Or is it simply that the opposing player was better; or maybe the other team had better teamwork?

And btw they're not "your weapons". You only paid for the experience, you don't own the IP.

Shogo_Yahagi
06-11-2013, 08:06 AM
By "this" I mean personal preference & actual balance are too different things. OP claims getting killed by infectors ruins his games; while that may be true, is it the gun being OP? Or is it simply that the opposing player was better; or maybe the other team had better teamwork?

And btw they're not "your weapons". You only paid for the experience, you don't own the IP.
And, btw, you're not Myll_Erik, so I wasn't asking you.

PeterPolaski
06-11-2013, 08:13 AM
What, exactly, do you mean by "this"? Are you going to pass on that PvP...
The post before this quote is me saying, "this".
You okay?
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view6/2576172/nerf-wars-are-violent-o.gif

Shogo_Yahagi
06-11-2013, 08:22 AM
The post before this quote is me saying, "this".
You okay?
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view6/2576172/nerf-wars-are-violent-o.gif
I'm assuming you know the difference between post and post with quote? Whose post did I quote in mine? What post was I specifically responding to in the text of my post?

PurePlayinSerb
06-11-2013, 08:23 AM
first of all i think pvp is lame my opinion ok, second i just started using infectors again, the last time they nerfed them they became useless even at arkfalls where there is enemies everywhere, problem is you gotta get right in front of them to shoot and you end up laying on the ground for some reason i don't get it when did the infector become so powerful in pve? catch the sarcasm there?

Reverend Blood
06-11-2013, 09:03 AM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-cI98HAk03Ng/T-ZFhcmvgbI/AAAAAAAAAFg/up7G_ceWh9M/s1600/spike+cry+gif.gif

Dooks
06-11-2013, 09:06 AM
When I shoot my Infector it sounds like this

QQQ QQQ QQQ QQQ QQQ

Blu
06-11-2013, 09:19 AM
please take out pvp, just so the east coast can actually get on the game and play it..

last time i checked this game was sold to us as a MMORPG,
no where did it say anything about MMOPVP we bi!tch and get weps nerf'd,

know ppl who love pvp in defiance dont care, but i spent 140k ark salvage just to get my clip slot open on my munizer, took me 2 weeks just to get the +! burst clip from a vender for it, didnt even get the wep untill ego 2613,

thats alot of time, effort and resources you want me to just let go of or call a loss, just so ppl can play the pvp aspect of this game,, made this weapon so i could use it in pve and level up my infectors to 20, and with this wep it is going faster then it would with any of the others.

why is this game getting nerf'd for its pvp aspects?
when it was sold and advertised as a MMORPG?
why cant you just play bf3 or cod when you want to pvp?
oh that's right, everyone complained about the weps in them games to, like the us12 gauge and the Famas in bf3..

i just dont get it, you gotta be really bored with this game to be on pvp so much that you have 15 pages of this sht here, and to have already nerf'd weps like northstars and shottys, why do you want every wep nerf'd just for pvp?

its not fair to the rest of the ppl who enjoy the pve aspect of this game and its no right, to show favortism towards pvp players, cause thats what they have done, shotguns dont need less rof or clip size or dmge reduction, tried doing a siege lately with these so called OP shottys or infectors? yea maybe if your skill lvl is 20 they rock, but not at 10.

next you will want the lmgs nerf'd, then det's, then ar's, please if your this bored of the only MMORPG we have on consoles, just put it down and go back to COD2 and let us who bought this game as a MMORPG, be able to play this game, theres a ton of pvp, fps games,

STOP TRYING TO MAKE THIS GAME THEM, and i dont get it either way, why is dieing to someone such a big deal in a game?
ever heard of the saying, if you cant beat em join em?

if you would just use blur and intimidation you could still pwn these infectors and these shottys, oh but thats right, you will prob want that nerf'd to,

its really lame to adjust this game for any of its pvp aspects when the east coast of US is still having issues just joining the game, right now, today..

greatdividers
06-11-2013, 09:24 AM
please take out pvp, just so the east coast can actually get on the game and play it..

the f*** are you talking about....


last time i checked this game was sold to us as a MMORPG

no it wasn't.

honestly i stopped reading there because i got this strange feeling the rest of the post would have been as awesome as the first few lines.

Iron Stormforge
06-11-2013, 09:34 AM
If Trion nerfs my Immunizer (I've had it since before it was cool), I'll just kill you all with something else.

I've been using my VBI SMG in place of my Immunizer lately, and it's been treating me pretty well anyway. Quit your whining.

If I get a vote, though, don't nerf it. The whiners are just a vocal minority.

Aphotic Bliss
06-11-2013, 09:38 AM
If Trion nerfs infectors I will do the same to you all as Iron Stormforge stated. All my guns are at 20 so switching to another weapon is not such of a problem. If you want a tip on how to fight people with infectors; use your surrounding cover wisely.

HilariousT
06-11-2013, 09:57 AM
I don't really get the whole "ruining the whole PvE experience" should the Devs balance an overpowered weapon. Is PvE so hard? Will balancing a weapon that auto-aims from hip, homes, inflicts a DoT then does huge burst damage, and THEN spawns bugs that continue to hit (HARD) gonna break it....? Really?? And lets not forget its extended range and full auto (with burst mod) capabilty.

You can beat any mission, with any loadout, any time... no problem. The PvE aspect is - in my opinion - fun to play, but it is not super difficult.

Balancing a fairly absurd weapon (just read the first paragraph and think about it with an open mind) is not going to "break PvE". Its not even going to impact it, if the Devs tweak properly. Hell, they could give all ark hunters "an intrinsically boosted immune system" (or something) which cuts infector damage (the burst in particular) by a high amount, and boom, problem solved. Some people will still use infectors in PvP (I bet they'd STILL be good), but by and large it would promote diversity which last time I checked, is a good thing in a persistent game world.

Turantula
06-11-2013, 09:59 AM
It was indeed advertised as an MMOTPS not RPG ( that was directed at Blu), but other than that he was right. No one bought this game solely for pvp, and if you did that's your prerogative, but shows that you had no idea what you picked up upon purchase. The PVP on this game is sub par at best. Lag is terrible, glitches are terrible, over all map variety is terrible.

This game did not build its focus around PVP as it is not COD, Halo, BF3, Killzone, Ghost Recon, Army of Two, Gears of War or any other FPS/TPS shooter out there. It's funny watching people debate over such a shallow aspect of this game, if this is the only game some of you own to enjoy a pvp experience, I am truly sorry for you as you are missing out on much, much more enjoyable games for that feature.

I do play pvp every once in a while on here, and yeah infectors are annoying, but that's just it they are annoying. Everyonce in a while I pull out my orange invader out of shear frustration, but still can be put down pretty easily if I'm not aware of my surroundings, just like any other person using an infector.

Bottom line this game doesn't need any more nerfs, the PVE is still broken, things that have been wrong since the beginning are still not fixed, and if Defiance looses its PVP fan base because it wont nerf a gun, then so long to all 10 of you, and hope you can find happiness in other games elsewhere.

Colif
06-11-2013, 10:06 AM
yes. all i can think off is different sets of stats for PvE and PvP. apart from that i've got nothing.

That would just confuse new people later on, better to have different weapons altogether and then restrict their access to pvp/pve only. Its a tough call, different stats would be the easiest to implement (or less work) but may just cause confusion later... unless pvp dies and we can just ignore it.

Dist0rt3d Hum0r
06-11-2013, 10:26 AM
as old as the stupid amount of people using this over power'd gun

IDK what you're talking about. I don't have any problems dealing with the immunizer guys in shadow wars or Freight Yard.

Just because you're not smart/skilled enough to figure out how to kill these guys doesnt mean that the weapon needs to be nerfed.

Each gun has its strengths as weaknesses. The Immunizer's strength is its range, but thats it. Its not too particularly powerful and cover disrupts its use well enough and lures its users into an unsafe area for its use because it cannnot out-dps anything.

Use your head for heaven's sake.

greatdividers
06-11-2013, 10:28 AM
IDK what you're talking about. I don't have any problems dealing with the immunizer guys in shadow wars or Freight Yard.

Just because you're not smart/skilled enough to figure out how to kill these guys doesnt mean that the weapon needs to be nerfed.

harsh but true.

pretty much any AR/SMG/LMG with syphon and enough skill to put most bullets on target will kill an inefctor user every time.

duction
06-11-2013, 10:28 AM
IDK what you're talking about. I don't have any problems dealing with the immunizer guys in shadow wars or Freight Yard.

Just because you're not smart/skilled enough to figure out how to kill these guys doesnt mean that the weapon needs to be nerfed.

and what would you do out in the open when someone is spamming you... no no... 3 people are spamming you with infectors that you cannot even miss with or roll away from lol.


bring on the Nerf


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-V8mY_wg_mUU/TyhjDsWjoBI/AAAAAAAAA3Y/QGYc6Zw0CHk/s1600/rip.gif

2013 - 2013 Infectors

greatdividers
06-11-2013, 10:30 AM
and what would you do out in the open when someone is spamming you... no no... 3 people are spamming you with infectors that you cannot even miss with or roll away from lol.

it would be the exact same with any gun if 3 people are shooting you....

Dist0rt3d Hum0r
06-11-2013, 10:31 AM
and what would you do out in the open when someone is spamming you... no no... 3 people are spamming you with infectors that you cannot even miss with or roll away from lol.


bring on the Nerf


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-V8mY_wg_mUU/TyhjDsWjoBI/AAAAAAAAA3Y/QGYc6Zw0CHk/s1600/rip.gif

2013 - 2013 Infectors

Don't be out in the open. Its that simple, and in the event that you are you'd better make sure you have a good shield and/or Syphon AR to keep you alive, because you'll need it. You're own stupidity brought this on you, now you have to get out of it.

duction
06-11-2013, 10:33 AM
if it was just from a lack of skill then why is it sucha problem and everyone demanding a nerf. hmmm would you be defending this because your are a low skilled player that uses a bmg and infector? oh man .

Dist0rt3d Hum0r
06-11-2013, 10:35 AM
if it was just from a lack of skill then why is it sucha problem and everyone demanding a nerf. hmmm would you be defending this because your are a low skilled player that uses a bmg and infector? oh man .

I run around with a Mass Cannon and a Syphon VOT Fragger with Decoy/Blur/Overcharge (any of those work) thank you very much.

And why do "so many" complain about it? Vocal minority. If you dont have a problem with it then nothing is going to be said about it. Its that simple. Go back to CoD where all your guns have the same stats.

greatdividers
06-11-2013, 10:37 AM
if it was just from a lack of skill then why is it sucha problem and everyone demanding a nerf.

because the vast majority of pvpr's are terrible.

mattbrox
06-11-2013, 10:37 AM
Arnold voice.... Stop whining. There has already been too much nerfing to guns. and those of us who spend more time on PvE lose every time since you pvp guys can't get it right. get over it. try a different set up. maybe pvp isn't for you.

Adrena Chrome
06-11-2013, 10:39 AM
One would hope. I am a solid 3-1 shooter player. I just turn and run from infestors... Here's why they are OP.. The server has to recognize the fire rate of any weapon. We all know there is lag. Bullet recognition is hit or miss. If you do the math an average pvp player should die in 10-15 saw bullets. Anyone every kill a moving target in 15 bullets?? no not likely unless they are running straight at you not shooting. Even if your bullets are on target the computer does not give you full credit for every bullet. Unlike the infector with homing needles and constant bug damage with bugs that do solid damage and don't miss. Four infector bugs and your are dead. Computer will give them thier bugs before your bullets everytime. All I want is a clear line of sight to be able to fight back. the puss blobs piss me off to no end..



harsh but true.

pretty much any AR/SMG/LMG with syphon and enough skill to put most bullets on target will kill an inefctor user every time.

Reverend Blood
06-11-2013, 10:39 AM
http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii148/Lombaszko/Internets/stop-whining.jpg

Dist0rt3d Hum0r
06-11-2013, 10:41 AM
because the vast majority of pvpr's are terrible.

Arnold voice.... Stop whining. There has already been too much nerfing to guns. and those of us who spend more time on PvE lose every time since you pvp guys can't get it right. get over it. try a different set up. maybe pvp isn't for you.

Agreed with both of you.

I think OP's got a case of "CoD Syndrome". He thinks he's way better than he actually is. IDK About you, but standing in the open in ANY game has always gotten me killed.

duction
06-11-2013, 10:42 AM
I run around with a Mass Cannon and a Syphon VOT Fragger with Decoy/Blur/Overcharge (any of those work) thank you very much.

And why do "so many" complain about it? Vocal minority. If you dont have a problem with it then nothing is going to be said about it. Its that simple. Go back to CoD where all your guns have the same stats.


i rank 1st or 2nd every pvp match so i know its not me,

xoxid
06-11-2013, 10:44 AM
Yeah everyone just get better!

Just use the gun that auto aims and homes in on the target just like everyone else!

Problem solved!

lol at ****ing stupid jerk offs saying "just get better" der der der! Yeah get better at using the Auto Aim Bot Gun lmfao.

You don't grasp the concept that its not about getting better as much as it is everyone using one ****ing gun. It takes away from the over all experience that is Defiance PvP because one gun out does all the other guns and because of that everyone uses it, and because of everyone using the same exact thing it makes for super repetitive matches. Defiance PvP has a lot more to offer then what is being seen but doesint get the chance because of this crap.

And for ppl saying "get better" or QQ...you are the ones who should get better and quit QQ'ing at the fact that ppl are pointing out the obvious sore thumb known as Infectors which has basically made PvP utterly lame and boring. Ppl point these things out because they want game play with a better over all spread of things other then just a couple. And if you cant recognizes this simple concept then you ppl are everything that's wrong with Defiance.

I personally almost never get killed by immunizer user. In fact, my death ratio by immunizer must be around 1/20.
Now if you run around with a weak short range shot gun, then immunizer will get you..

Dist0rt3d Hum0r
06-11-2013, 10:44 AM
One would hope. I am a solid 3-1 shooter player. I just turn and run from infestors... Here's why they are OP.. The server has to recognize the fire rate of any weapon. We all know there is lag. Bullet recognition is hit or miss. If you do the math an average pvp player should die in 10-15 saw bullets. Anyone every kill a moving target in 15 bullets?? no not likely unless they are running straight at you not shooting. Even if your bullets are on target the computer does not give you full credit for every bullet. Unlike the infector with homing needles and constant bug damage with bugs that do solid damage and don't miss. Four infector bugs and your are dead. Computer will give them thier bugs before your bullets everytime. All I want is a clear line of sight to be able to fight back. the puss blobs piss me off to no end..

Not so chrome. I've watched those infector bugs miss quite often. They're simply not fast enough to catch a sprinting character. On top of that if said player also cloaks then the bugs are super confused and just sit there.

Also, I used to defend points from a distance with a fire SAW and decoy. Worked like a charm, so if you can't hit running players that's your own fault, not the computer's.

Dist0rt3d Hum0r
06-11-2013, 10:45 AM
i rank 1st or 2nd every pvp match so i know its not me,

THEN WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU COMPLAINING ABOUT????

Stats are not tracked and you get first or second. There's NOTHING to complain about then.

My God you people are idiots. Just because you get a few deaths at the hands of a gun that you can't outsmart you think it needs a nerf.

kasaitenma
06-11-2013, 10:46 AM
I don't really get the whole "ruining the whole PvE experience" should the Devs balance an overpowered weapon. Is PvE so hard? Will balancing a weapon that auto-aims from hip, homes, inflicts a DoT then does huge burst damage, and THEN spawns bugs that continue to hit (HARD) gonna break it....? Really?? And lets not forget its extended range and full auto (with burst mod) capabilty.

You can beat any mission, with any loadout, any time... no problem. The PvE aspect is - in my opinion - fun to play, but it is not super difficult.

Balancing a fairly absurd weapon (just read the first paragraph and think about it with an open mind) is not going to "break PvE". Its not even going to impact it, if the Devs tweak properly. Hell, they could give all ark hunters "an intrinsically boosted immune system" (or something) which cuts infector damage (the burst in particular) by a high amount, and boom, problem solved. Some people will still use infectors in PvP (I bet they'd STILL be good), but by and large it would promote diversity which last time I checked, is a good thing in a persistent game world.

most of the ppl who are arguing against nerfing immunizers use them regularly for pvp. theyll get nerfed simply because everyone uses them. personally i think the solution is making the reticule significantly smaller, essentially to the size of a pin and theyll further decrease jump distance of the bugs

greatdividers
06-11-2013, 10:49 AM
theyll get nerfed simply because everyone uses them.


Howdy

I'm passing this on again - but bear in mind we look at both the community perspective and raw data to help tweak and tune things.

derp derp derp

JonDav
06-11-2013, 10:51 AM
THEN WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU COMPLAINING ABOUT????

Stats are not tracked and you get first or second. There's NOTHING to complain about then.

My God you people are idiots. Just because you get a few deaths at the hands of a gun that you can't outsmart you think it needs a nerf.

Who the hell are you to dictate what people should complain about? I'm pretty sure he paid for his copy so that gives him the right to voice his concern over any damn thing he deems fit. You really gonna call him an idiot for voicing his opinion over a product he paid for? I swear, as this game nosedives further into disaster, you fantards get extremely worse.

Dist0rt3d Hum0r
06-11-2013, 10:52 AM
derp derp derp

I just looked at your loadout. I think I've killed you once or twice on Freight Yard. xD

Guess what though OP, it wasnt with an immunizer. :O

Deadeye Horizon
06-11-2013, 10:54 AM
How about if you don't like the game, you buy a new one and stop ruining it for those of us who think; it is what it is: an amazing first effort at a cross platform mmo with constantly updated playable content.

Dist0rt3d Hum0r
06-11-2013, 10:55 AM
Who the hell are you to dictate what people should complain about? I'm pretty sure he paid for his copy so that gives him the right to voice his concern over any damn thing he deems fit. You really gonna call him an idiot for voicing his opinion over a product he paid for? I swear, as this game nosedives further into disaster, you fantards get extremely worse.

He can complain all he wants. And yes, he is an idiot if he really does place 1st or 2nd every game, yet still complains about immunizers in a game where PvP stats are not tracked. Plenty of other players here have not had problems with it and neither do I. OP sounds like a self-entitled brat that wants an easy PvP experience.

I'll dictate my opinion on his opinion all I want. This is the internet after all.

snake171
06-11-2013, 11:02 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-LMeKlk2HY

Dist0rt3d Hum0r
06-11-2013, 11:05 AM
Hey! I can log onto the game! I'm going to wash my hands of this thread, grab breakfast, and go play some Defiance.

Ya'll entitled people have fun. I know I'm going to.

JonDav
06-11-2013, 11:06 AM
He can complain all he wants. And yes, he is an idiot if he really does place 1st or 2nd every game, yet still complains about immunizers in a game where PvP stats are not tracked. Plenty of other players here have not had problems with it and neither do I. OP sounds like a self-entitled brat that wants an easy PvP experience.

I'll dictate my opinion on his opinion all I want. This is the internet after all.

In other words, you support YOUR right to have an opinion but deny others who don't share your asinine stance? Hilarious yet moronic. You and the insanely low amount of people you "surveyed" don't have this issue, therefore it shouldn't be an issue for anyone. Brilliant. You acknowledge that the OP excels in the game then turn around and assume he wants an "easy" experience ( I guess his constant ranking at the top of the leaderboard somehow doesn't display his ability to already prosper in the game). Brilliant. Did I miss anything in your mindboggling argument?

Aeekto
06-11-2013, 11:10 AM
Howdy

I'm passing this on again - but bear in mind we look at both the community perspective and raw data to help tweak and tune things.

Well, all that is wrong with the immunizer (not all infectors) isnīt the damage at all, so there wont be much raw data that shows unbalance.
itīs all about the ~50m range, with autoaiming cartridges inside a realy big crosshair, no bloom,spread or anything else that would make you miss some bullets (like you do with every other weapon). Even if you would miss more of the cartridges, the "strain expander" bugs that weapon so much out, that it even doesnīt matter because it shoots so fast that it compansates everything.
you donīt even have to ADS so you can jump around like a squirrel on ecstasy and fire your "fully automatic" weapon (because of "strain expander") on sniper range and wont miss one cartridge if you just point somehow in enemies direction... no need to be pinpoint accurate with your aiming like with a sniper/AR/LMG (where you even have to ADS to hit something).... even with a guided RL or breakercannon you have to ADS and be accurate until it locks on.
In close combat itīs ok if you donīt have to ADS like with shotgun, smg or invader/canker.... but as long as all other weapons have to ADS on mid-/longrange to even hit something with some bullets (a lot still miss), the immunizer should have to do it too.
.... and donīt forget about the shooting through covers .


Thatīs the reason why people use it a lot and why itīs unbalanced in pvp.... itīs not the damage (the base damage is actually fine).... itīs just how the weapon handles... including the "strain expander".

Hope499
06-11-2013, 11:17 AM
Cant believe people are still asking for nerfs...

But then I think....do I really care? They game wont hurt too much from it.

People, is this game REALLY that hard? So what if they nerf a few things, if you got the skill it shouldint matter.

I went 12-7 last night in fright yard....ALL 7 deaths were from a immunizer...honestly..


I still did good, its not unbeatable or anything...but it is annoying as hell lol

Adrena Chrome
06-11-2013, 11:32 AM
Ok so obviously you didn't read my post. I said I could run away from them. As you pointed out genius. And at no time did I mention cloak so why are you?? You state I defend from a distance. That is a strategy anyone can employ and works against all weapons. Another genius observation. My statement was if a bug attacts you the computer gives the hit period. If i fire a three round burst from a tacc one will always miss. Infestors don't miss.


Not so chrome. I've watched those infector bugs miss quite often. They're simply not fast enough to catch a sprinting character. On top of that if said player also cloaks then the bugs are super confused and just sit there.

Also, I used to defend points from a distance with a fire SAW and decoy. Worked like a charm, so if you can't hit running players that's your own fault, not the computer's.

Fuzzle
06-11-2013, 11:35 AM
http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/1083392620618095115/A51C455A042E091A6D8BE7DEFA14DC1F4B3CA603/1024x576.resizedimage

Honestly my biggest issue with infectors in pvp is this. (Thanks for this screenshot).
Imo, fire also has over the top visuals that make it difficult to see your surroundings, let alone react to what's going on, and I wish they'd tone them down. Reducing the size of the infections on players would make infectors much less irritating while neither nerfing their uniqueness or hindering PvE in any way.

I feel like developers and players knee-jerk about all kinds of things in this game because they are "overpowered", when really the issues aren't in the strength of the gun, it's the lack of fun.

Take shotguns for example. Their damage got nerfed, when that wasn't really the issue. The issue was that you felt helpless when a cloaked person walked up behind you and shot you and you died and never saw it coming. I don't remember there being a huge list of threads complaining about the Blur shotgunners, even though that was quite effective. You don't feel as helpless when you see them coming at you.

That and it was so easy to do, so it was happening ALL the time. At least a cloaked sniper has to have exceptional aim (and specific perks) to kill you in 1 shot, so it's more rare.

Infectors have similar issues. They aren't fun to die to, and they are super easy to use, so they are everywhere ruining the ability to enjoy PvP. There should be some adjustments to fix this. As I pointed out, reducing the visible size of the infections would help a lot.

I really think infectors should be looked at, but looked at carefully. Don't just 50% nerf it like the flare pistol and call it a day. (I miss you so bad flare pistol!)

So what makes them so strong? As I see it what makes infectors so strong are the following:


Blocks vision when infected.
Massive homing capability.
Massive range.
Ability to use while "bunny hopping" with no detriment.
Inability to effectively roll to avoid bug spawns/reduce damage/increase visibility.
Bugs attacking you from seemingly out of nowhere. (Spawning off other players).
A semi-auto infector gets made into a full auto.


So which of these can we adjust without massive hits to PvE and without reducing their uniqueness?

Blocks vision when infected. Personally I see no reason to do this. It's just a nuisance and ruins fun. Please reduce the size they get to on players.

Massive homing capability. This is probably one thing that people get frustrated with as well. Dying to "infector noobs", but I actually get it. PvP shooters need their "noob tubes" to allow lower skilled players to get into PvP without feeling as frustrated fighting veterans. It's also part of what makes the weapon unique. Sucks to die to the noob that can't aim, but a necessary evil.

Massive range. This ONLY applies to the immunizer, which really is the only infector that's particularly out of balance in PvP. It's supposed to be an anti-sniper version so having long range makes sense. Perhaps a minimum range would help bring it in line? (e.g. it only infects at 20-40 meters un-modded). Yup, that's a big nerf.. don't freak out, I'm only spitballing here. All the other infectors have pretty pathetic range.

Ability to use while "bunny hopping". Not being able to bunny hop while shooting effectively would make a lot of weapons more viable. Infectors aren't the only culprit for this though. This would have to be adjusted for all weapons. Shotguns, Detonators, Rocket Launchers, and Infectors would probably be the main culprits for being able to do that. Personally though I like jumping around while shooting, I think it's fun. Anyone that's gone against me in PvP is probably well aware of my affinity for jumping like a mad fool shooting my detonator.

Bugs spawning from other players and attacking you. It's pretty terrible to walk around a corner and find 5 bugs that just leap right at you. There was no player shooting at you, and then you just go splat to bugs (or at least take heavy damage). At the very least I think bugs should get that little red warning triangle that grenades get so you have a chance to avoid walking around that corner. Most other options for this (having bugs only attack players you shoot for example) kind of ruin the uniqueness of the weapon and could have heavy PvE implications.

A semi-auto infector gets made into a full auto. Again, this is mainly an Immunizer problem. I'm actually not sure if this is intended. Usually adding a +1 burst you would expect a burst of 3 to turn into 4, or 5 turns into 6. Not +1 burst makes burst fire change to automatic fire. If that's intended I think it should be stated as so, and if it's not intended it should be fixed. (That would be a bug fix, not a nerf)


Anyway, trying to direct the conversation in a constructive way. Feel free to point out things I said that you disagree with or things I missed and keep the discussion productive. Or troll, I guess you can do that too...

Adrena Chrome
06-11-2013, 11:42 AM
OMG Thankyou Fuzzle!!!!!!! that picture says it all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

greatdividers
06-11-2013, 11:44 AM
OMG Thankyou Fuzzle!!!!!!! that picture says it all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

are you aware that only occurs when you are shot a minimum of 15 shots on the left side of your characters head? do you realize how low the chance of that happening is?

it's ridiculous don't get me wrong, but people make it out to be waaaaay more common than it is.

Fuzzle
06-11-2013, 11:51 AM
are you aware that only occurs when you are shot a minimum of 15 shots on the left side of your characters head? do you realize how low the chance of that happening is?

The picture is definitely an extreme case, but it always blocks a lot of your vision. More than it should.


OMG Thankyou Fuzzle!!!!!!! that picture says it all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank Sdric. I was quoting his post from much earlier in the thread, because I think that issue is understated. Really makes fighting back difficult.

greatdividers
06-11-2013, 11:57 AM
The picture is definitely an extreme case, but it always blocks a lot of your vision. More than it should.

i can agree with you that it shouldn't block the screen at all but saying it always blocks a lot of your vision is an outright lie, sorry.

Coolrockski
06-11-2013, 12:06 PM
Fuzzle, correct me if I'm wrong but do you play on PC NA server? I think you are one of the people who bunny hop around capture points with the rocket launcher or detonator and pretty much blow everyone up. I'm not trying to call you out, I totally agree about infectors, but just think I remember the name.

Sdric
06-11-2013, 12:10 PM
Without taking anybodys side on this.
But at least you can do something against explosives -> "Blast Shield" Perk.
Infectors however counter any weapon that requires zoom, cloak and positioning/corners (since bugs run around it).


What disturbs me the most about infectors however is:
They block your vision
Make your screen flash
Make your screen shake
Can easily be used while bunny hopping

Even if we ignore the damage and lack of damage falloff this is plain insane on its own.

Fuzzle
06-11-2013, 12:11 PM
PC NA, and yup, that would be me. Hoppy detonator person. I'm sure there's a number of people that hate me for it :p

Coolrockski
06-11-2013, 12:17 PM
I don't hold it against anyone doing what they can in PVP..even infectors. But yes, it is very annoying trying to kill you hoping around the point and trying to aim an AR up and down, up and down..lol

Coolrockski
06-11-2013, 12:43 PM
I regards to Infectors, a lot of the better PVP players do not use infectors..on PC NA anyway. There are groups of premades, who basically only use infectors, run FY and just ruin the fun.

Fuzzle
06-11-2013, 01:04 PM
i can agree with you that it shouldn't block the screen at all but saying it always blocks a lot of your vision is an outright lie, sorry.

Maybe we have different interpretations of what "a lot" is, or maybe you are being too literal with me using "always". Let me amend that to "usually".

A typical infection, where I am in direct of line of fire for a moment, looks like this:
http://i.imgur.com/ahWFAzH.jpg

Whether that's a "lot" is certainly debatable. I consider it a lot since it covers a fair chunk of the central part of my screen which is where I am looking. I can see how others would say it's not.

However, if I aim with my weapon, that same infection looks like this:
http://i.imgur.com/zvF46fV.jpg

I find it difficult anyone would not consider that "a lot".

Sure, sometimes people shoot you in the feet and you hardly see it. Sometimes they don't land enough shots to get any infection, particularly when not using a burst modded immunizer. However for me this is a typical case of simply momentarily being in the line of sight of an infector user in PvP. Sometimes it's less, sometimes it's more, but usually it's this. You're welcome to judge for yourself how excessive you think it is or isn't.

And on a side note, a large part of why I want to point it out is that it's not something that I expect shows up in the data.

Rah
06-11-2013, 01:25 PM
I don't really get the whole "ruining the whole PvE experience" should the Devs balance an overpowered weapon. Is PvE so hard? Will balancing a weapon that auto-aims from hip, homes, inflicts a DoT then does huge burst damage, and THEN spawns bugs that continue to hit (HARD) gonna break it....? Really?? And lets not forget its extended range and full auto (with burst mod) capabilty.

Let's do the math. Immunizer gets how many shots per second? It takes how many to start an infection? How long does it take to spawn a bug? How long does it take the bug to engage? How much damage does the spawn do, and how much does the bug itself do?

Typically, an immunizer has 20 shots in the magazine. If it has more, it's usually less than 25, so a 5th infection won't happen before a reload anyways. That's 20x5 damage from the shots, or 100. Note also, that even the fastest immunizer only gets about 7 shots per second (there are faster infectors, but have half the homing and much less range), so after 3 seconds, you've spent your clip, done 100 base damage, maybe 100 dps from the infections which didn't start until after the first second, so let's say 300 from infections, the first bug didn't hatch until the 4th infection started, so call that 700, and the bug hasn't even attacked to do its 700 damage. Ok, 3 seconds from an immunizer has caused 1100 damage with more on the way.

Compare an non-burst SMG. The VBI SMG gets 15 shots per second that do 179 each, and a clip size of 40, which lasts less than 3 seconds without a capacity magazine. That same 3 seconds with an SMG is capable of putting out 7160 damage, which will put even the strongest shield with 3 points of fortitude out in under a second and a half. So while the immunizer has put out maybe 150 damage, the SMG has already killed the strongest player. Holding still at close range, of course.

And that's the whole issue with the immunizer - it counters bunny hopping at range. At close range, bunny hopping still causes aiming issues. Because for DPS purposes, it's laughable, unless you're in an aoe situation (the bugs explode). Nerfing them would make them completely useless - they already cannot stand up in a close range fight.

My vote is give a stamina bar, and have jumps and rolls cost stamina. Stamina recharges over time (kinda like in older Elder Scrolls games). No one can do acrobatics on an extended basis in a fire fight. People can bunny hop, but only for a short time. Makes other weapons more useful at long range.


You can beat any mission, with any loadout, any time... no problem. The PvE aspect is - in my opinion - fun to play, but it is not super difficult.

Try using an immunizer and another infector, along with a respark and a flash grenade as your loadout against 2-3 bulwarks or 2 tankers (if you need an exact location, use the 2 bulwarks in the solo mission bunker on the way to Nim Shando). Have fun with that. That's any loadout, any time, no problem in your words. PS: you'll run out of ammo if you don't die. Try again with an SMG or AR? Cake. It's pretty obvious that infectors are one of the weakest weapons in the game (only rockets and LMGS can boast being weaker - even flares are stronger if you have a large clip and can keep hitting, and they're magic against tankers). They have 2 primary uses: homing, and aoe bugs.

PlagueSD
06-11-2013, 01:36 PM
The easy fix here is to make the PvP balancing a separate entity. That way you guys can have your tantrums and get your "balances" in PvP, and it won't hurt the PvE part of the game.

What is there to balance??? Everyone has access to the same perks and weapons. It doesn't get more balanced than that.

Also, has anyone tried rolling to remove infections? That works with every other "nano" effect. If that doesn't work, that's the ONLY change I'd recommend.

Dave Blackwell
06-11-2013, 02:16 PM
Most of the ppl who are arguing against nerfing immunizers use them regularly for pvp. theyll get nerfed simply because everyone uses them.

I would like to disprove this assumption wrong, to an extent. I am against not only the 'nerfing' of immunizers but against 'nerfs' to all and every weapon that is ever suggested upon. Shotguns were moaned about constantly from day one, everyone deemed them to be The 'OP' weapon of the entire game, no one mentioned about any other weapon from what I recall.

Now shotguns got 'nerfed' (I used to use them - not anymore as they're useless, I'll admit that) and everyone moved onto infectors as they were the next equally efficient weapon, their popularity bloated massively due to the swarm of shotgun users when the weapon they used got made redundant. Hence why you morons are back again crying over the next supposed 'OP' weapon.

Tell me, what's the next weapon you lot are going to be crying over after you get your way once again after throwing yet another temper tantrum? Yeah, you're all going to be back again in a month or two in the exact same position - there's no such thing as keeping PvP'ers happy; it's impossible.

Infectors will get 'nerfed' and just like what happened when the shotguns got ruined, all of those people who are using infectors now? They're going to move to yet another equally effective weapon and every single one of you who moan over this nonsense is going to be back and I will be there again to remind you exactly why 'nerfing' does not fix a damn thing.

Gojira
06-11-2013, 03:05 PM
Yeah everyone just get better!

Just use the gun that auto aims and homes in on the target just like everyone else!

Problem solved!

lol at ****ing stupid jerk offs saying "just get better" der der der! Yeah get better at using the Auto Aim Bot Gun lmfao.

You don't grasp the concept that its not about getting better as much as it is everyone using one ****ing gun. It takes away from the over all experience that is Defiance PvP because one gun out does all the other guns and because of that everyone uses it, and because of everyone using the same exact thing it makes for super repetitive matches. Defiance PvP has a lot more to offer then what is being seen but doesint get the chance because of this crap.

And for ppl saying "get better" or QQ...you are the ones who should get better and quit QQ'ing at the fact that ppl are pointing out the obvious sore thumb known as Infectors which has basically made PvP utterly lame and boring. Ppl point these things out because they want game play with a better over all spread of things other then just a couple. And if you cant recognizes this simple concept then you ppl are everything that's wrong with Defiance.

true, i dont mind that infectors in fact have quite nice dmg, not only that most of ppl are using that one with highest range, and it spawns a lot of bugs... today i have seen like 2 guys with infectors killed 5... top guys from my team. how ? just spread hide, spread, hide and then give bugs to do rest. and in the chaos its really easy to be killed by bugs. i dont want to nerf dmg... i want to nerf aim bot. infector > any other weapon in mid range, close range, i wont say about few meters from foe, becouse everyone then are using shotguns. but before you will reach that shotgun range, you will be killed by bugs. simply, infectors dont need aim skill, so there is nothing to compare. infectors always win. and thats exactly what you can see at the end of each game, top 3 are ppl that are using infectors all the time.


nobody said that bud.

to repeat myself for the hundredth time

there will always be a few guns that are stronger than the rest, and they will be the most used in pvp. it doesn't matter if its infectors, detonators, SAW's, BMG, etc.

the most powerful guns will be used and abused and people, like yourself, will complain about them. welcome to pvp balancing.
i dont mind if i get headshot, i dont mind if im killed by saw ect... if you are skilled, you have chance to dodge and kill if you can better aim then your opponent. but infectors... there is no place to hide ;) that why they are OP.


Without taking anybodys side on this.
What disturbs me the most about infectors however is:
They block your vision
Make your screen flash
Make your screen shake
Can easily be used while bunny hopping

Even if we ignore the damage and lack of damage falloff this is plain insane on its own.
exactly... ppl using infectors will always say that "get better" but that say ppl using aim bot ;) what is ironic

kasaitenma
06-11-2013, 03:19 PM
idk other than the BMG what has aim assist in pvp i used to use the immunizer but i got bored of it. sucked to fun outta killing ppl.



Now shotguns got 'nerfed' (I used to use them - not anymore as they're useless, I'll admit that)

the shotguns got ruined

and shotguns useless?!?! ruined? they're still pretty good, lots of ppl still use them so i know your crazy and your opinion not longer matters.

Dave Blackwell
06-11-2013, 03:37 PM
idk other than the BMG what has aim assist in pvp i used to use the immunizer but i got bored of it. sucked to fun outta killing ppl.


and shotguns useless?!?! ruined? they're still pretty good, lots of ppl still use them so i know your crazy and your opinion not longer matters.

Use whatever you want to discredit the rest of what I said, but I stand by what I've said all along. Keeping Pvp'ers happy is impossible and will never be achieved. The only way to make the PvP in this game 'balanced' (Haha...) is by removing EGO powers altogether but that will take a major chunk out of the gameplay that Defiance offers. You have no way of determining whether or not the weapon that player killed you with is maxed, has great mods or whether not they have the 'best' set up perk wise. Therefore meaning there are too many possibilities that can determine what truly makes a weapon 'OP' or not.

I would also like to take this time to, yet again, parrot the phrase I've been saying ever since the first 'NERF SHOTGUNS!!1' found itself on this forum. This game is not centered around PvP, nor is its main focus on PvP; the main focus of Defiance is its PvE aspect. PvP is nothing but an anchor to this game, whether or not Trion cuts away from it is yet to be seen. What happens PvP side, effects the PvE part of the game - it's not the fact that PvE is essentially 'easy', it's because of a vocal minority (yes, you're part of a minority) keeps bickering over non existent 'balance' in weapons and that the rest of us suffer those changes because of it. Unfortunatey, the one who shouts the loudest gets the most attention.

Those of us who enjoy the game, or those who have enough common sense to avoid the forum, are too busy enjoying ourselves to care to check the forum. I have saw BF3 be driven into the ground through idiotic changes, due to those crying over pointless things as they lacked common sense and the devs unfortunately listened to them. For that reason, I am going to at least attempt to prolong the time it takes for that to happen to this game. It will no doubt be in complete vain, but it is what it is.

Balancing weapons is impossible because 'balance' to those who cry for it don't understand it. The only way to truly balance weapons is to leave them unbalanced. Having weapons being equal is moronic as you may as well have sticks and beat everyone around the head with them. This is what will eventually happen, if Trion doesn't realise it before it actually occurs. You all cried about shotguns, they got nerfed. Those who used shotguns moved onto infectors, now you're all crying about infectors. Trion are probably going to, yet again, listen to the vocal minority and nerf infectors. You're all going to come back when that happens and complain about the next supposed 'OP' weapon. They will 'nerf' that and guess what? This is going to go on and on and on until finally every single weapon is absolutely useless.

All of this over some novelty PvP aspect of this game? You're aware that your score, K/DR in Defiance doesn't even mean anything? It's not stored on a leaderboard, no one cares if you went 76-9 or 45-22. PvP means nothing in this game, the only purpose it serves is to complete pursuits and that is it. Once you finish that? There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to return to it.

'Nerfing' has never and will never fix anything.

kasaitenma
06-11-2013, 03:39 PM
u mad bro?

Hiero Glyph
06-11-2013, 06:53 PM
'Nerfing' has never and will never fix anything.

"Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man."

Seriously, if you really think this is the truth you have no place in a discussion concerning balance.

calicoflo
06-11-2013, 07:39 PM
Next we'll jump on our magical unicorns and ride to the land where nobody loses in PvP, ever.

http://i.imgur.com/XHTUIQQ.png

-This
you babies need to stop complaining.you are ruining the game.
Trion do not listen to these losers.

Golgo_13
06-11-2013, 08:07 PM
Nobody made a 14 page assortment of *****ing and moaning when mah beloved FRC Heavy Scattergun was illicitly neutered, so I laugh at you infector users for your upcoming worthlessness! Let the nerfing Inquisition continue, hohohoho!

Shadow Viper
06-11-2013, 08:32 PM
There's nothing wrong with Infectors

It's Fine, Learn to Play

Adapt and Overcome

Stop Crying

Nefarious
06-11-2013, 09:59 PM
There's nothing wrong with Infectors

It's Fine, Learn to Play

Adapt and Overcome

Stop Crying

Thanks for your input and supporting the thread. :)

http://www.miscupload.com/upload/572760058191679060858305.gif

duction
06-12-2013, 12:13 AM
I just hope it gets looked into and sorted out. It's really unbalanced.

Lazurkri
06-12-2013, 06:12 AM
why the hell would infectors be nerfed? if you are dying from them in MP a lot, then you're sucking; all you need to do to avoid the bugs is keep rolling, since most people use immunizers which deal little DoT when your not actually being hit by the needles.... true, you can die from the "5 needles and a bunch of damage from hatching bug" thing, but compared to a shotgun, it isn't great.I've been killed more often by a AR than the actual direct damage from a infector.... not talking about the bugs mind, because they kill fast, just the DoT....

Sdric
06-12-2013, 06:25 AM
[...]

Note.
The amount of the screen being blocked depends on your zoom.
You posted images with a nade launcher which has close to 0 zoom.
The same infection covers twice as much when you zoom in with an LMG.

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/1083392620618095115/A51C455A042E091A6D8BE7DEFA14DC1F4B3CA603/1024x576.resizedimage
my favorite example. Posted by iTango.

E/: Post above mine

P.S.
"Just keep rolling" made me lol.
Ye, you ain't supposed to shoot back or kill your enemy.
Infectors block your vision, make your screen flash and make it hop up and down.
You litereally can't kills any infector player that is shooting directly at 1on1.
At least if that guy is smart enough to bunny hop to his right hand side which is your left screen half and completely blocked off by infection when scoped.

Not to mention that the forced mouse sensity zoom down on PC makes it even more sickening.
(P.S. my mouse DOES have buttons for sensity adjustment but additionally adjusting my sensity whenever I scope in/out is no valid option. It costs time and gets you killed.)

Dave Blackwell
06-12-2013, 06:57 AM
"Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man."

Seriously, if you really think this is the truth you have no place in a discussion concerning balance.

Explain this to me because I'm failing to see how this is going to work out to be a benefit for everyone overall. Say the infectors do get 'nerfed', which they probably will anyway regardless of what's said by those against it who take the time to post. Right? They get 'nerfed' what happens next? What are all the people who were using them going to do? They're going to move onto a weapon set that hasn't been ruined by 'nerfing' (yet) and then you morons are going to be back with some dumb reason to attempt to justify reducing their effectiveness yet again declaring said weapon, whatever it's going to be, to be The 'OP' weapon. Just like what happened with shotguns, just like what's happening to infectors and just like what's going to continue if Trion keeps giving into this nonsense.

Do you want me to explain why I see 'nerfing' as a ticking time bomb that causes more problems than it actually solves? Right. We start off with one weapon set that's supposedly the only 'OP' weapons. That eventually gets 'nerfed'. Those who use that go out to find another more equally effective weapon which hasn't been touched. They use that, that gets 'nerfed' over time, they then find another until eventually that weapon set has been reduced to nothing. Repeat this as many times as you want.

Why am I against 'nerfs'? Because the overall effectiveness of weapons are being lowered and the ones that haven't been touched at all yet are eventually going to be the 'OP' weapon. What does this mean? It means, to anyone with common sense, that all weapons are going to essentially be worthless and they won't be worth the hassle in using as overtime they'll all be equal. Equality doesn't work with weapons, why? Because they have to be unbalanced in order for them to outbest each other in certain scenarios. 'Nerfing' overtime takes this away from all weapons and that leads to an extremely boring experience.

Oh and not to mention this game isn't even centered around PvP and its main focus is actually on PvE. Have you not realised that PvP is more or less a novelty on this game? Your score and all of that does not mean anything on this game. There is no global leaderboard, your results aren't stored anywhere, no one cares if you place first, last or in between in PvP. Why you ones even care about this I just can't wrap my head around due to the fact of what I mentioned above - it does not mean a thing.

If Trion won't cut away from the anchor which is PvP in this game, then the only way they'll be able to make PvP somewhat 'balanced' (If that's even possible) is by removing EGO powers altogether from that aspect. You have no way of determining whether or not it's the perks, the mods or in fact that weapon itself that player using the weapon that killed you is even 'OP' to begin with off the bat. Other than that? PvP side only changes, or no changes at all. If this doesn't happen it's going to do a lot more damage than good over time due to these changes effecting the PvE side which has hardly any problems with 'balance'. Hell, why people even moan about balance in PvE is beyond me. But that's my views, take it or leave it.

greatdividers
06-12-2013, 07:03 AM
You litereally can't kills any infector player that is shooting directly at 1on1.


hahahaha that's good. the fact that you play on PC and still can't 1v1 infectors is awesome. thanks for the morning laugh ;)

FriendlyStranger
06-12-2013, 07:05 AM
I don't know why more of you don't insist on separate weapon stats for PVP and PVE. They can tailor weapons for PVP and PVE freely without having any effect on the other. =|

Hiero Glyph
06-12-2013, 07:58 AM
...

Simply put, the Infector is not comparable to the other weapons in the game in its current state. This leaves two options: reduce the Infectors abilities, or increase all of the rest. Given how many other weapons feel appropriate and the sheer number of them that would need to be changed, the solution is obvious.

Now how this 'nerf' is handled determines everything about its effectiveness. Given that mobs do not roll often, if you allow players to shed infections by rolling you have now added a mechanic that has limited effect on PvE but dramatically impacts PvP. Another required change is fixing the mod that allows the Immunizer to become full-auto as this is entirely broken. Once those changes are made, a few other small adjustments may be required but overall the situation should be improved with no 'nerf' being felt on the PvE side.

As for removing EGO powers, they are actually fine save Cloak. If Cloak added a shimmer effect when players are walking/running then it would make it entirely balanced. Again, this would have limited (zero?) impact on PvE. As a result, nerfing can be done without affecting PvE but it needs to be done properly; therefore such actions would entirely invalidate your previous statements.

EDIT: Also, reducing the stats of the Infector's bugs would also have limited effect on PvE as mobs do not even try to shoot them or run away from them. This would include reducing the bugs' health and adding a small delay between when they spawn and when they attack; damage would be unchanged. Certainly you must realize by now that there are plenty of potential ways to balance Infectors that would not affect PvE.

Sdric
06-12-2013, 08:12 AM
hahahaha that's good. the fact that you play on PC and still can't 1v1 infectors is awesome. thanks for the morning laugh ;)

There is so much trash coming out of your mouth.
You flame other players, make fun of them, accuse them for being bad.
However you completely fail/refuse to actually deliver any prove for your arguments.
Other players enlist problems with a weapon.
You ignore anything that doesn't support your point of view.
u]Your posts are worth absolutely nothing.[/u]
You're one of those guys who intentionally tries to destroy a discussion in order to avoid change to status quo.
I usually don't tend to insinuate vague thesis against other player but I get the feeling that you're damn scared of the infector nerf since you'll get stomped when the situation actually requires skill.

Lazurkri
06-12-2013, 08:14 AM
hahahaha that's good. the fact that you play on PC and still can't 1v1 infectors is awesome. thanks for the morning laugh ;)

I know right? people who suck are complaining.... it makes me laugh endlessly!

Try it on the Xbox genius', then tell me how a Infector is great in 1 on 1 at close range..... its actually really really bad!

greatdividers
06-12-2013, 08:22 AM
There is so much trash coming out of your mouth.
You flame other players, make fun of them, accuse them for being bad.
However you completely fail/refuse to actually deliver any prove for your arguments.
Other players enlist problems with a weapon.
You ignore anything that doesn't support your point of view.
u]Your posts are worth absolutely nothing.[/u]
You're one of those guys who intentionally tries to destroy a discussion in order to avoid change to status quo.
I usually don't tend to insinuate vague thesis against other player but I get the feeling that you're damn scared of the infector nerf since you'll get stomped when the situation actually requires skill.

i guess i could have worded it more politely.... doesn't change what i meant though. let me try again:

if you are actually using a pvp loadout (rhino, defensive perks, syphon guns, etc) you should never lose 1v1 to an infector.

ps: go ahead and ask any pc na player if i use infectors. i used an immunizer for one match this morning while i was reseting by VBI sniper rifle. 99% of matches i use the loadout in my signature.

Dave Blackwell
06-12-2013, 08:33 AM
Now how this 'nerf' is handled determines everything about its effectiveness. Given that mobs do not roll often, if you allow players to shed infections by rolling you have now added a mechanic that has limited effect on PvE but dramatically impacts PvP. Another required change is fixing the mod that allows the Immunizer to become full-auto as this is entirely broken. Once those changes are made, a few other small adjustments may be required but overall the situation should be improved with no 'nerf' being felt on the PvE side.

I agree with you on allowing players to be able to shed the infection by rolling, similar to how it works for when being on fire. It's true that this would have almost no effect in regards to the PvE aspect, however, it will if the stats and such are tweaked extensively; whether or not this will happen is yet to be seen. Honestly? Ignoring all the other possible issues with weapons and focusing solely on the infectors what you've said right there is more than enough to even out the odds.

With that being said though, I still stand by how I view 'nerfs' in general and how they cause more problems than permanent solutions. Yes, they may temporarily solve an issue at the time but over time it usually comes round and bites the players in the *** one way or another.


Simply put, the Infector is not comparable to the other weapons in the game in its current state. This leaves two options: reduce the Infectors abilities, or increase all of the rest. Given how many other weapons feel appropriate and the sheer number of them that would need to be changed, the solution is obvious.

As for removing EGO powers, they are actually fine save Cloak. If Cloak added a shimmer effect when players are walking/running then it would make it entirely balanced. Again, this would have limited (zero?) impact on PvE. As a result, nerfing can be done without affecting PvE but it needs to be done properly; therefore such actions would entirely invalidate your previous statements.

EDIT: Also, reducing the stats of the Infector's bugs would also have limited effect on PvE as mobs do not even try to shoot them or run away from them. Certainly you must realize by now that there are plenty of potential ways to balance Infectors that would not affect PvE.

This is one thing that I struggle in my own mind when it comes to infectors and how they can be compared to the others. It comes across almost as a 'unisex', so to speak, weapon as it can quite literally be used in almost any and all situation - depending on if the person using them wants to take a stab with them. I'm not too sure which one of those options would be the most beneficial overall. Yes reducing infectors would be the least hassle, but by increasing the rest of them it could also prove to be the solution as well, entirely dependant on how it's carried out though but it could also be considered to be one.

The problem is an infector can't be compared by anything that already does exist, so there's no way of determining what exactly their strengths and weaknesses should be. It could be viewed as a support type weapon, for the fact that the bugs do a majority of the work and you can switch to your primary. It could even been viewed as an offensive for those that truly enjoy using them, quite a lot. Looking at how everyone's reacting to this situation I would say that's part of the issue, we don't really know how to.. 'view' them as a weapon as they can't be compared to anything else.

Removing EGO powers, not just the major ones but the smaller ones too; which is what I meant the whole time. I don't necessarily agree with this, even though I am the one saying it as I believe EGO adds spice to the overall gameplay that Defiance offers. However there's too many factors that can determine whether or not a weapon is well and truly 'OP'. We have no way of knowing, straight away, what perks, mods and such that the person who killed us was using. This just adds to the problem of how to really deem if a weapon is actually 'OP' or not. By removing the EGO powers etc. this more or less would make PvP.. at least somewhat balanced. I still believe that it's impossible to have equality when it comes to weapons. But what what I mean is it's only the mods and the statistics of the weapons themselves that play into their overall effectiveness within PvP. When EGO powers are in the mix then it's too complicated.

I'd like to make it clear that I'm not just here trying to stop some unnecessary 'nerfs' to infectors but I'm also trying to show that this will not make everything fine and dandy. See once infectors are done and dusted? There's gonna be another thread down the line, yet again, demanding that some supposed 'OP' weapon needs to be neutered as it's 'ruining the game'. But right now no one is complaining about any other weapons, just infectors; because of the popularity of them. Shotguns got 'nerfed' those that used them swarmed to infectors, their popularity bloated and here we are. This is what will continue even after this infector 'problem' is sorted.

Okta
06-12-2013, 08:37 AM
i dont know if someone mention that but anyway this is my solution :
Infectors should not have deal any other dmg then from spawned bugs. That small dmg from first hit should be removed with infection dmg. Or atleast have bug dmg and shot + infection dmg in different kind of infectors. Or they just should be banned for PvP :)

Hiero Glyph
06-12-2013, 08:50 AM
@Dave Blackwell

I do agree that Trion's history of 'balance' changes has been rather bad. Trion completely messed up the Shotgun nerf. While the reduced magazine size seems appropriate for PvP it just makes them less than useful for PvE. Sawed-offs, save the Courier, are a waste in most cases now as well. The flare gun nerf was also completely overdone. Detonators are still just as problematic even without the legendary +mag bonus, and Mass Cannons lost their legendary +mag bonus as well despite there being no notes on this (bug? oversight? Trion won't comment).

While I will continue to state that nerfs are not always a bad thing and, in some cases, can be very helpful, Trion seems to be incapable of managing yet another aspect of their own game. Although it is possible to balance PvP without affecting PvE, I have no faith in Trion's ability to do so. As a result, I completely understand your concern over this issue.

IAMVILELENT
06-12-2013, 09:12 AM
Anyone who says Infectors aren't Op are clearly dependent on them. Lets get the facts,

1. Long Range (As good as a sniper rifle if not better)
2. Does as much damage as an AR
3. Homing Bullets
4. In some cases bugs which can hit for 600, crit for over 1k, ON TOP of already getting pelted by homing bullets.
5. Blocks players vision when shot by one with giant blob
6. If vision not blocked, screen of attacked player shakes like Michael J Fox on Space Mountain.
7. With specific mods, gun shoots faster & is full Auto (With homing bullets)
8. Has tic damage as well (As if everything else wasn't enough)


None of you defending this weapon see ANYTHING wrong with this? You're fooling yourself if you think this is going to last. Get good with a weapon that requires a little breaking of sweat to use, or you'll be behind the curve after the nerf.

Stick a burst mod in a full auto elemental AR and you have something as good as the infector if not better, just doesn't have homing bullets, which is BS to begin with. A gun that causes game engine problems should not be in the game at all IMHO, but a nerf will have to suffice.

Dave Blackwell
06-12-2013, 09:14 AM
@Dave Blackwell

I do agree that Trion's history of 'balance' changes has been rather bad. Trion completely messed up the Shotgun nerf. While the reduced magazine size seems appropriate for PvP it just makes them less than useful for PvE. Sawed-offs, save the Courier, are a waste in most cases now as well. The flare gun nerf was also completely overdone. Detonators are still just as problematic even without the legendary +mag bonus, and Mass Cannons lost their legendary +mag bonus as well despite there being no notes on this (bug? oversight? Trion won't comment).

While I will continue to state that nerfs are not always a bad thing and, in some cases, can be very helpful, Trion seems to be incapable of managing yet another aspect of their own game. Although it is possible to balance PvP without affecting PvE, I have no faith in Trion's ability to do so. As a result, I completely understand your concern over this issue.

I do see what you're saying and despite my views on 'nerfs' that I have stated previously. I will admit that those are the views towards bad approaches of tweaking anything in well.. any game to be honest. I am yet to see any game where it's done in such a way that doesn't cause a major impact in some way or another. Hence why I view 'nerfing' in general so negatively. I fully understand and agree with you, to an extent, on how you view that 'nerfs' are not always negatively impacting. It's just finding that sweet spot that can keep a majority, if not all, happy with them.

Really, all it boils down to at the end of the day is PvP only changes; where PvP has its own stats and what have you and PvE has its own as well. That's the only way I can honestly see this working for both sides. Yes, not all changes PvP side will effect PvE as it stands now but it does depend on what weapons etc. that are being looked upon. By having two separate statistics for each other this would more or less well.. Ok, maybe it'll only keep those who play PvE happy but it would allow PvP'ers to bicker over everything under the sun while PvE remains untouched, so to speak.

Hiero Glyph
06-12-2013, 09:16 AM
A gun that causes game engine problems should not be in the game at all IMHO, but a nerf will have to suffice.

Search for the videos of the VOT Plasma Pulser if you want to see a game breaking weapon in Defiance. Thankfully it was removed.

greatdividers
06-12-2013, 09:19 AM
Lets get the facts,

1. Long Range (As good as a sniper rifle if not better)
2. Does as much damage as an AR
3. Homing Bullets
4. In some cases bugs which can hit for 600, crit for over 1k, ON TOP of already getting pelted by homing bullets.
5. Blocks players vision when shot by one with giant blob
6. If vision not blocked, screen of attacked player shakes like Michael J Fox on Space Mountain.
7. With specific mods, gun shoots faster & is full Auto (With homing bullets)

you're using the word facts incorrectly bud.

1. this is a joke right? sniper rifles can shoot well passed the draw distance...
2. wrong.
3. k
4. bugs don't crit for 1k.
5. doesn't block player vision when shot once.
6. k
7. k

i'm all for balancing immunizers so the forum qq'rs go away, but at least get your "facts" straight

IAMVILELENT
06-12-2013, 09:23 AM
you're using the word facts incorrectly bud.

1. this is a joke right? sniper rifles can shoot well passed the draw distance...
2. they do more than some AR's, but less than most.
3. yep.
4. pretty sure bugs don't crit (someone confirm/deny?)
5. it is possible yes, but requires you to get shot in the head enough to have 3 stacks of infection. (read: not common)
6. sure.
7. trion hasn't confirmed or denied whether the burst mod making some infectors full auto is a bug or not, so meh.

i'm all for balancing immunizers so the forum qq'rs go away, but at least get your "facts" straight

Get my facts straight but yet you verified 6 of my 7, are you a moron or just trolling?

As for #1, the weapon requires 2 rolls, countem, 2, to be within hitting range of any sniper weapon. No aiming required, just point towards them in the general area. "Better Long Range Weapon"

NullRage
06-12-2013, 09:23 AM
Hi all, I haven't been following this thread so im probly just gonna come off as an uninformed *******...oh well. Here are my opinions on the infectors: Infectors are EASY! They are not the best dps output however. In the hands of a skilled player nearly ANY other weapon can out damage them! That said the majority of people playing this game (myself included) are not what i would consider "skilled players". So it is easy to see why some people would think that infectors are "overpowered" But the truth is they aren't they are just easier. They have a lower skill cap than most other weapons. I honestly think this is fine. Theres a number of weapons that could use some balancing tweaks, but I dont believe infectors to be amoung them. In fact, I dunno if any of you have used one of the "Outbreak" models, but if you have you know that this type of infector is nearly useless and should just be removed from the game.

kasaitenma
06-12-2013, 09:23 AM
look ppl, whether the immunizer is OP is irrelevant at this point. The devs will nerf it because everyone uses the gun not because ppl are complaining. as someone who doesnt care what happens to the gun, i think the argument has gotten stupid as one side does not really understand why ppl dont like the immunizer. ppl arent complaining about the damage, its the mechanics of the gun. ppl have had very sensible changes that i think will improve the gameplay for everyone. as it stands i dont think immunizers are not fun to pvp with in your loadout. there is no enjoyment in the kill it really feels like the gun does most of the work. so i think making the flesh pods smaller, fix the burst mod glitch, decrease the radius of the reticule and only allow homing when aiming down sights ( the last one im a little ehh on cause idk if it can be implemented and gameplaywise it would be weird). the last thing that will prob draw to most ire is that i dont think the spawned bugs should know who is an ally or enemy; if you infect someone they target that person be until then they are rabid and will attack anything. i dont think these list changes are nerfs so much as changes to gameplay mechanics. if you want argue against these things; just make a real argument with logic. i.e. just get better is not an argument. when the other side makes a real counter-argument then we can talk about who is right.

now ppl who think they ruined shotgun with the buckshot patch, u objectively wrong as they are fine in pvp and pve i coulda done without the auto-fragger RoF nerf i though it shoulda been increased time inbetween bursts rather than increasing the time for the burst to finish but it still kills things just fine. pvp is also significantly better in the post-buckshot era so the nerfs did work everyone should be happy except those ppl who want an op shotgun and i dont care about those ppl anyway as they just want easy kill and an easy pvp game.

lastly, if a weapon like the infector was around today, it would be a war crime and human rights violation to deploy the gun to any conflict. see the geneva convention and a handful of other international laws on war. they are laws on what is acceptable behavior in dealing with a dead enemy combatant. you cant piss on someones dead corpse so infecting someone with a parasite that will eat their way out of a corpse is definitely going to be illegal. all im says with this is i know ppl on the psn would have use the immunizer since day one of this game and have not tried anything different. at a certain point try something new dont you get bored? cause in many ways your the reason enough ppl dont play pvp. if you try something new, ppl will try to be like those new loadouts and the devs wont nerf the immunizer cause ppl stop mass deploying them and you can proceed to use the immunizer again.

birdie1991777
06-12-2013, 09:27 AM
dont nerf them any more because you people forgot that guns can level and get better obviously people with level 20 infecters will do some serious damage and i for one dont mind it like others have stated get better i dont have problems with anyone on pvp so quit nerfing stuff you whiners already nerfed my shotguns yet i still keep going.

fang1192
06-12-2013, 09:30 AM
Until we bring the infector in line with other weapons it is hard to advocate buffs to anything else. I know this seems weird but bear with me. Infectors, as they are now, completely dominate the meta. The biggest problem here is that the infectors require very little input, while other weapons require significantly more so. Because of this we cannot really tell how effective other weapons are, only how effective they are against the current meta (infectors). We don't really see how well they can combat each other. Bringing infectors down a notch should hopefully shift to a more diverse meta where more varied strategies and tactics will come out. This can also apply to cloak, but that's for another topic.

On a side note, continuous, frequent nerfing is bad, but so is continuous, frequent buffing. Most people who are serious about PvP and balance want to raise some tactics up and knock others down and have an intention behind those changes.

0_d4RK_FaLLen
06-12-2013, 09:41 AM
Until we bring the infector in line with other weapons it is hard to advocate buffs to anything else. I know this seems weird but bear with me. Infectors, as they are now, completely dominate the meta. The biggest problem here is that the infectors require very little input, while other weapons require significantly more so. Because of this we cannot really tell how effective other weapons are, only how effective they are against the current meta (infectors). We don't really see how well they can combat each other. Bringing infectors down a notch should hopefully shift to a more diverse meta where more varied strategies and tactics will come out. This can also apply to cloak, but that's for another topic.

On a side note, continuous, frequent nerfing is bad, but so is continuous, frequent buffing. Most people who are serious about PvP and balance want to raise some tactics up and knock others down and have an intention behind those changes.

Just don't get you're issue. have played countless hours in this junk pvp and even though I've been hit a lot with infectors I've learned to play around them. Barely ever get killed by one and most of the times I end up killing kid using it. At this point if you're stipl having problems try different approach. Its really pathetic everyone crying for nerfs instead of learning different ways of playing. Game is already borderline with enjoyment and more they nerf cause of people's stupid whining the less fun game will be. Guarantee stupid **** like this continues game won't last past summer.

Sdric
06-12-2013, 09:57 AM
5. doesn't block player vision when shot once.


Because in Defiance people only shoot 1 single bullet at each other...
Since Infectors do auto aim you fired 5 shots before enemy even has ADS'd and readjusted his weapon.
What you say is basically.
Infectors are balanced because you can run from them.

I whatsoever say a weapon you can't duell but only run from isn't balanced.

Plus, I repeat, it is basically impossible to fight an infector with a weapon that has to ADS when the infector user keeps bunnyhopping to his right side.














http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/1083392620618095115/A51C455A042E091A6D8BE7DEFA14DC1F4B3CA603/1024x576.resizedimage

greatdividers
06-12-2013, 10:04 AM
Because in Defiance people only shoot 1 single bullet at each other...
Since Infectors do auto aim you fired 5 shots before enemy even has ADS'd and readjusted his weapon.
What you say is basically.
Infectors are balanced because you can run from them.

I whatsoever say a weapon you can't duell but only run from isn't balanced.

Plus, I repeat, it is basically impossible to fight an infector with a weapon that has to ADS when the infector user keeps bunnyhopping to his right side.

i'm not the one who originally said it happens when shot once bud.

that picture shows what happens if you get shot in the head enough times to have 3 infection stacks. this rarely happens to me. maybe i don't have this happen to me often because i don't stand around like an idiot when getting shot at by an infector.

ps: did you skip over the part of my post where i'm all for balancing immunizers?

Gravi7y
06-12-2013, 10:33 AM
Howdy

I'm passing this on again - but bear in mind we look at both the community perspective and raw data to help tweak and tune things.

So far this thread has almost twice as many people chiming in asking for these weapons NOT to be nerfed.

I hope that gets taken into consideration when you pass it on.

deadfall
06-12-2013, 10:43 AM
Easy fix. Disable infectors in PVP. Done.

The next cry for nerf of the next best weapon, do the same thing.

Eventually, one can only make mean faces at your opponents, or perhaps have a rusty spoon as a weapon, and everything is perfectly balanced.

I am genius.

SHADOWBROKER
06-12-2013, 10:45 AM
I believe anyone who asks for a nerf should be banned. i play pvp and i dont care about the gun. i use shottys and im not running. get some skill kid and dont cry. if this lil game is to tough for you go play halo or cod i dont know ooh wait table tenis there that game is safe. i am a hardcore gamer to all others like me if you see these little babys on the field KILL them, get them out of this game out of this forum OUTTA HERE

Nefarious
06-12-2013, 10:47 AM
I agree with OP.

blazie151
06-12-2013, 11:06 AM
Why are ppl still complaining about immunizers? I almost never die by one. Cloak, nano fragger, scattergun. Idiot kills you with an immunizer and your not using cover enough. Haven't you ever played GOW, Army of Two, or any other game where no cover = death?? Same ppl complain Nim is too hard for the same reason, they aren't using cover. Honestly the BMGs need the nerf more, I can escape an immunizer with cover unlike a BMG. I can't even escape the BMG by killing it's wielder!!!

Shogo_Yahagi
06-12-2013, 11:30 AM
Easy fix. Disable infectors in PVP. Done.

The next cry for nerf of the next best weapon, do the same thing.

Eventually, one can only make mean faces at your opponents, or perhaps have a rusty spoon as a weapon, and everything is perfectly balanced.

I am genius.

This. When the babies throw their toys out of the pram, take away their toys.

PurePlayinSerb
06-12-2013, 12:57 PM
Because in Defiance people only shoot 1 single bullet at each other...
Since Infectors do auto aim you fired 5 shots before enemy even has ADS'd and readjusted his weapon.
What you say is basically.
Infectors are balanced because you can run from them.

I whatsoever say a weapon you can't duell but only run from isn't balanced.

Plus, I repeat, it is basically impossible to fight an infector with a weapon that has to ADS when the infector user keeps bunnyhopping to his right side.














http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/1083392620618095115/A51C455A042E091A6D8BE7DEFA14DC1F4B3CA603/1024x576.resizedimage

i fire from the hip with a lot of weapons, and the infector honing range is not as powerful as you think, i don't even think it hones much at all anymore, the reticle needs to be red in order for the darts to stick, same case with all my guns my reticle needs to be red for my bulets to hit, and you do realize this game has auto aim right? so every gun has honing, if you don't like auto aim, shut it off, lets see what you say then

Dooks
06-12-2013, 02:01 PM
lets see what you say then


What they will say is something along these lines: Oh yeah, you're right, well then.....NERF SAWS....

Hiero Glyph
06-12-2013, 03:06 PM
So I found a Strain Reducer and decided to break out my Immunizer since it had been collecting dust. I figured I would see just how balanced this weapon is since so many claim it can easily be countered. The first game on Observatory, I went 14-0. I normally don't die that much but I literally stayed in or near the observation tower the entire match. It was so easy!

The next game I decided to do what I never do, go inside the detonator death trap in the middle. I actually died a few times but still managed to go 10-4. The next match I actually got into late but went 2-0 with 5 assists. So in three matches (2.1 really) I went 26-4. Do you really think this weapon is balanced?! No way; it takes no skill at all.

Dooks
06-12-2013, 03:57 PM
So I found a Strain Reducer and decided to break out my Immunizer since it had been collecting dust. I figured I would see just how balanced this weapon is since so many claim it can easily be countered. The first game on Observatory, I went 14-0. I normally don't die that much but I literally stayed in or near the observation tower the entire match. It was so easy!

The next game I decided to do what I never do, go inside the detonator death trap in the middle. I actually died a few times but still managed to go 10-4. The next match I actually got into late but went 2-0 with 5 assists. So in three matches (2.1 really) I went 26-4. Do you really think this weapon is balanced?! No way; it takes no skill at all.

Not sure how this makes any sense. You didn't use infectors and you didn't die much, you use infectors and you still didn't die much, that makes the weapon OP? What am I not understanding?

Hiero Glyph
06-12-2013, 07:43 PM
Not sure how this makes any sense. You didn't use infectors and you didn't die much, you use infectors and you still didn't die much, that makes the weapon OP? What am I not understanding?

I literally didn't have to think and when I did, I could not be killed. The weapon takes all of the disadvantages away. I don't have to be in shotgun range. I don't have to limit my mobility with ADS. I don't have to really aim and auto-aim does the work for me. Heck, I even killed a few targets that I never even saw with bugs.

BrassRazoo
06-12-2013, 08:48 PM
I literally didn't have to think and when I did, I could not be killed. The weapon takes all of the disadvantages away. I don't have to be in shotgun range. I don't have to limit my mobility with ADS. I don't have to really aim and auto-aim does the work for me. Heck, I even killed a few targets that I never even saw with bugs.

Wow I'll have to give them a go then.
Never used them in PvP but have all Purple and Orange in my backpack only and my Infectors are at 20 thanks to Sieges.

duction
06-14-2013, 12:15 AM
I see this made it into dev tracker.

Lets hope they make the right decision :)

_Peacemaker_
06-14-2013, 01:43 AM
So I found a Strain Reducer and decided to break out my Immunizer since it had been collecting dust. I figured I would see just how balanced this weapon is since so many claim it can easily be countered. The first game on Observatory, I went 14-0. I normally don't die that much but I literally stayed in or near the observation tower the entire match. It was so easy!

The next game I decided to do what I never do, go inside the detonator death trap in the middle. I actually died a few times but still managed to go 10-4. The next match I actually got into late but went 2-0 with 5 assists. So in three matches (2.1 really) I went 26-4. Do you really think this weapon is balanced?! No way; it takes no skill at all.

That's the point exactly. The fact that there is too much payoff for a weapon that is way too easy to use and takes no skill at all. I have a legendary immunizer myself and I don't like having no alternative, but to use it because everyone else is. I'd prefer using a sniper rifle, assault rifle, LMG, or detonator, but am often forced to switch loadouts to deal with infectors. It's not a matter of "deal with it, this is pvp" it's more of a matter of weapons that take skill shots or detonation timing should pay off more than a weapon that just aims in a general direction, set it and forget it. Getting rid of the homing aspect of infectors would at least make the payoff in their damage more reasonable.

B_Draco
06-14-2013, 02:42 AM
You know three simple nerfs will adjust PvP, but hardly bruise PvE: Remove homing ability of the infector needles, make cloak be like the Predator's cloak and if someone shoots while cloaking, make 'em pop up as a red dot on the mini-map, so people can track cloakers with more ease. PvP solved, PvE un-touched.

Alien
06-14-2013, 07:14 AM
bump for support

greatdividers
06-14-2013, 07:36 AM
That's the point exactly. The fact that there is too much payoff for a weapon that is way too easy to use and takes no skill at all. I have a legendary immunizer myself and I don't like having no alternative, but to use it because everyone else is. I'd prefer using a sniper rifle, assault rifle, LMG, or detonator, but am often forced to switch loadouts to deal with infectors. It's not a matter of "deal with it, this is pvp" it's more of a matter of weapons that take skill shots or detonation timing should pay off more than a weapon that just aims in a general direction, set it and forget it. Getting rid of the homing aspect of infectors would at least make the payoff in their damage more reasonable.

skill issue bud. sniper/ar/lmg/smg > infector if you can aim